Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 5449080 times)

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benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22620 on: August 07, 2018, 03:08:47 AM »
So the government should determine what these companies have to allow on their networks? :thinking
No, companies should be regulated like the government


Oblivion

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22621 on: August 07, 2018, 03:15:28 AM »
Yes, the SJWs that lead the major internet tech companies all conspired to silence Alex Jones cause he was getting too close to discovering the truth about chemtrails, and not because he's been in the news recently for being an utter fucking scumbag and going after the parents of murdered children.

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22622 on: August 07, 2018, 03:18:37 AM »
Colluding

 :nintendo

Trent Dole

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22623 on: August 07, 2018, 04:06:26 AM »
Anon has declared war on ...anon
Hi

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22624 on: August 07, 2018, 05:02:14 AM »
Yes, the SJWs that lead the major internet tech companies all conspired to silence Alex Jones cause he was getting too close to discovering the truth about chemtrails, and not because he's been in the news recently for being an utter fucking scumbag and going after the parents of murdered children.

This all happened within a few hours and he's been in the news for 2 years for far worse shit. Stop playing dumb.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22625 on: August 07, 2018, 05:19:49 AM »


look at this fucking social studies warrior

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22626 on: August 07, 2018, 05:29:02 AM »
(Image removed from quote.)

look at this fucking social studies warrior


Yes, because the conditions are the same as they were when the founding fathers were alive. Madison wanted to protect people from the government because it used to be the most powerful institution in the country, now that corporations run this bitch they should be held accountable in order not to have complete control of public spaces and public discourse.

It's funny how libertarians, neoliberals, liberals and other rightwing groups all agree with each other on this shit, it's as if they want corporations to have control over the internet and media in general. It's as if they're all rightwingers shilling for corporate propaganda and control.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22627 on: August 07, 2018, 05:55:38 AM »
If the government regulates it, the government will decide what companies will have to allow on their networks. Just like it currently defines what is and is not speech, press, assembly, petition, etc. in regards to what is seemingly the absolutist language in the First Amendment.

We can disagree or not on what things should be protected under those clauses but I don't think anyone would deny we're not deciding what does and does not fall under them and to usually simplify under a single clause what is and is not speech that can be legislated against.

Oblivion

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22628 on: August 07, 2018, 05:58:16 AM »
Yes, the SJWs that lead the major internet tech companies all conspired to silence Alex Jones cause he was getting too close to discovering the truth about chemtrails, and not because he's been in the news recently for being an utter fucking scumbag and going after the parents of murdered children.

This all happened within a few hours and he's been in the news for 2 years for far worse shit. Stop playing dumb.

Spotify was the one that got the ball rolling and that was LAST WEEK. And Twitter just said they'll be standing by him 110% so you can rest easy knowing that he'll still have a major Silicon Valley social media platform to spout about how the government's turning frogs gay.

Oblivion

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22629 on: August 07, 2018, 06:01:32 AM »
Did you guys know that Google, Youtube and FB don't allow you to post kiddie porn on their platforms either?! Those damn tyrannical SJEWs have been curbing the first amendment since the very beginning!

Trent Dole

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22630 on: August 07, 2018, 06:04:15 AM »
Spotify was the one that got the ball rolling and that was LAST WEEK. And Twitter just said they'll be standing by him 110% so you can rest easy knowing that he'll still have a major Silicon Valley social media platform to spout about how the government's turning frogs gay.
Twitter is pro fash as fuck - look at who @jack is following. He's not just an enabler he's one of them. :yuck
Hi

brawndolicious

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22631 on: August 07, 2018, 06:38:14 AM »
Apple, FB, YouTube, and Spotify are all just competitors for podcast distribution. These are like bookstores, not town squares. This isn't a slippery slope, it's where we've been for hundreds of years.

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22632 on: August 07, 2018, 08:27:31 AM »
If the government regulates it, the government will decide what companies will have to allow on their networks. Just like it currently defines what is and is not speech, press, assembly, petition, etc. in regards to what is seemingly the absolutist language in the First Amendment.

We can disagree or not on what things should be protected under those clauses but I don't think anyone would deny we're not deciding what does and does not fall under them and to usually simplify under a single clause what is and is not speech that can be legislated against.


If they're treated as utilities they'll have to abide by the same free speech laws the government does. These corporations are also regulated regarding child porn, threats of violence against politicians and so on, should the government remove these regulations too or are you only concerned about the specific ones that encourage free speech? Also are you for or against net neutrality?


Apple, FB, YouTube, and Spotify are all just competitors for podcast distribution. These are like bookstores, not town squares. This isn't a slippery slope, it's where we've been for hundreds of years.

Oh c'mon, you can't be serious with these mental gymnastics.

Nintex

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22633 on: August 07, 2018, 08:35:54 AM »
What the people celebrating and asking for the censorship of Alex Jones forget is that this tactic will be used against them in great effect within a week or so when the troll armies manage to say ban the Young Turks.

Not to mention that some are asking the 'government' to look into this and ban and censor everything else as well.
The same government that supports Alex Jones.

There's one thing I learned about progressive activists these past few years.
They're not very smart or thinking ahead.
🤴

Rufus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22634 on: August 07, 2018, 08:41:47 AM »
If they're treated as utilities they'll have to abide by the same free speech laws the government does.
I don't know what kind of utility you think Facebook would become, but since you know that they aren't, i.e. they're not currently under any obligation to behave as a government body would, then why are you even having this argument?
At the very least, decide what argument you're making. Moral or legal.

What the people celebrating and asking for the censorship of Alex Jones forget is that this tactic will be used against them in great effect within a week or so when the troll armies manage to say ban the Young Turks.
Good thing he isn't being censored then.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 08:50:34 AM by Rufus »

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22635 on: August 07, 2018, 08:51:43 AM »
If the government regulates it, the government will decide what companies will have to allow on their networks. Just like it currently defines what is and is not speech, press, assembly, petition, etc. in regards to what is seemingly the absolutist language in the First Amendment.

We can disagree or not on what things should be protected under those clauses but I don't think anyone would deny we're not deciding what does and does not fall under them and to usually simplify under a single clause what is and is not speech that can be legislated against.


If they're treated as utilities they'll have to abide by the same free speech laws the government does. These corporations are also regulated regarding child porn, threats of violence against politicians and so on, should the government remove these regulations too or are you only concerned about the specific ones that encourage free speech? Also are you for or against net neutrality?
Thanks for repeating what I said back and then posing a signaling question instead of a response. Those corporations are currently exempted regarding those things as long as they aren't producing it btw.

In any case, it doesn't matter, the government currently can impose time and place restrictions, you aren't entitled to use a government facility to host your events at any time you wish for example, they can require you to get prior approval, only have it at certain times and pay for the privilege. Regulating as utilities doesn't get around this, I'm required to pay for access to electricity, they can cut my access within certain restrictions, etc.

A government owned Facebook or Google would absolutely be able to impose speech/press restrictions on them under current law. What's far more difficult for the government to do is impose them on private entities.

Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22636 on: August 07, 2018, 09:21:09 AM »
Young Turks :zzz
©@©™

Brehvolution

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22637 on: August 07, 2018, 09:23:45 AM »
Violate the ToS, get dropped, and call it censorship brehs.
©ZH

kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22638 on: August 07, 2018, 09:27:04 AM »
This free speech absolutist view is weird to me.

It seems obvious that a company should have a right to determine what content appears on its platform using completely arbitrary means. Otherwise every site with a comment section would basically turn into 4chan.

Completely makes sense that Facebook and YouTube don’t want to host content where the creator constantly slanders people, makes light of mass school shootings, and calls for violence against public figures.

Like complete and total free speech would just allow the biggest shitheads to shit up every website however they wanted to with no ability to moderate it. Like we would have to just endure etoilet coming straight at us fuckers with dead baby pictures or whatnot.

Brehvolution

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22639 on: August 07, 2018, 09:27:13 AM »
Pansy ass Social Media Justice Warriors(SMJW)™  :yuck
©ZH

marrec

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22640 on: August 07, 2018, 09:34:48 AM »
What the people celebrating and asking for the censorship of Alex Jones forget is that this tactic will be used against them in great effect within a week or so when the troll armies manage to say ban the Young Turks.

Not to mention that some are asking the 'government' to look into this and ban and censor everything else as well.
The same government that supports Alex Jones.

There's one thing I learned about progressive activists these past few years.
They're not very smart or thinking ahead.

Oh no you mean Anita is going to be banned from YouTube soon?!

Great Rumbler

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22641 on: August 07, 2018, 09:35:37 AM »
If only etoilet were here to explain this all to us. Unfortunately, the cowardly Bore mods stripped him of his first amendment rights and no one has stepped up to defend him.
dog

marrec

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22642 on: August 07, 2018, 09:38:19 AM »
This free speech absolutist view is weird to me.

It seems obvious that a company should have a right to determine what content appears on its platform using completely arbitrary means. Otherwise every site with a comment section would basically turn into 4chan.

Completely makes sense that Facebook and YouTube don’t want to host content where the creator constantly slanders people, makes light of mass school shootings, and calls for violence against public figures.

Like complete and total free speech would just allow the biggest shitheads to shit up every website however they wanted to with no ability to moderate it. Like we would have to just endure etoilet coming straight at us fuckers with dead baby pictures or whatnot.

The free speech absolutist view isn't a genuine view, it's in expedience of keeping shitheads they agree with at easy reach is all.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22643 on: August 07, 2018, 09:46:11 AM »
how about we call it "entitled platform" instead of "free speech absolutist" so that the latter term actually can mean something useful :fbm

/tonepolice

Rufus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22644 on: August 07, 2018, 09:48:09 AM »
If only etoilet were here to explain this all to us. Unfortunately, the cowardly Bore mods stripped him of his first amendment rights and no one has stepped up to defend him.
Let's have his boy Tim Pool explain it to us in his stead:
https://twitter.com/Timcast/status/1026599502667542530

Madrun Badrun

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22645 on: August 07, 2018, 09:49:10 AM »
Oh now I get it. 

benjipwns

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benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22647 on: August 07, 2018, 09:53:40 AM »
https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1026561651720343552

wait, why is Tim Pool verified but Ken White isn't?

Madrun Badrun

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22648 on: August 07, 2018, 09:54:47 AM »
This is really eye-opening stuff.  Really starting to feel like a freemen on the virtual land. 

benjipwns

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VomKriege

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22650 on: August 07, 2018, 10:05:12 AM »
I don't know. The absolutist view is purely theorical but I'm not sure it's really viable to have public and private spaces be polar opposites on the matter, especially in a world where privatisations are rampant and larges swathes of the new revolutionary medium for communication is in the hands of a handful of companies who aren't exactly too sad to take a knee for censorship when need be (see Google trying to re-enter China recently). On top of the usual limitations that always existed in the public space (yelling fire in a theater, etc...).

I mean if free speech can only be exercised on a soap box in a park, it's pretty pointless.

Democracies are built upon the principle that freedom of thought, opinion and speech and allowing opposite viewpoints make for better government. There's no reason it wouldn't be true for private collectives and we should always try, even in private settings, to keep that principle at heart with as few limitations as possible and reasonable.

I believe that democratic government should always try to incentivize it and not just abide to not stifle it in its lane.

My 2 cents.

(Yes it's speculative, hyperbolic and a bit slippery slope, but you know...)
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 10:15:09 AM by VomKriege »
ὕβρις

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22651 on: August 07, 2018, 10:32:21 AM »
I tried to find out who Tim Pool was and found this :lol


spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote
Ojarose
1 year ago
"you wanna know why I wear the hat? so people don't recognize me on the street!"
Tim pool, the guy who always wears a beanie, same one usually, making that kind of argument? ahahaha
dude was sensitive about his balding head, nothing more.

he got all embarrassed about his balding ugly head.
spoiler (click to show/hide)

 :thinking
[close]
[close]

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22652 on: August 07, 2018, 11:05:03 AM »
oh my god that hat


Kara

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22653 on: August 07, 2018, 11:10:31 AM »
What the people celebrating and asking for the censorship of Alex Jones forget is that this tactic will be used against them in great effect within a week or so when the troll armies manage to say ban the Young Turks.

Look leftists, if this happens to Alex Jones [checks notes] the U.S. government will continue its long running and documented suppression of your free speech rights.

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22654 on: August 07, 2018, 11:11:31 AM »
Fine, let them take Jimmy Dore too

jakefromstatefarm

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22655 on: August 07, 2018, 11:18:00 AM »
I mean if free speech can only be exercised on a soap box in a park, it's pretty pointless.
i don’t know enough about this particular debate to add anything of substance, but i find the fact that all parties involved have pretty much conceded that there will never be a public space where meaningful discussion can take place, such that we need to co-opt private spaces to turn them into ‘utilities’, really, really depressing

seagrams hotsauce

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22656 on: August 07, 2018, 11:23:02 AM »
people get banned for posting picture of themselves breastfeeding on facebook, cry me a fuckin river for a guy who made a fortune peddling bullshit that resulted in the years-long harassment of people who's kids got shot to death

VomKriege

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22657 on: August 07, 2018, 11:36:52 AM »
I mean if free speech can only be exercised on a soap box in a park, it's pretty pointless.
i don’t know enough about this particular debate to add anything of substance, but i find the fact that all parties involved have pretty much conceded that there will never be a public space where meaningful discussion can take place, such that we need to co-opt private spaces to turn them into ‘utilities’, really, really depressing

I don't think the situation is that dire yet but I just find the "well it's a private platform so *shrug* and NOT IT" a bit grating. It has become casually dismissive despite most everyone being horrified by the Sinclair group imposing mandatory political segments or algorithm induced bubble effects. But I guess it goes hand in hand with the breakdown of greater public conversation generally.

I think we need more spaces for speech with some protection attached, not less, in the workspace for example.
ὕβρις

Phoenix Dark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22658 on: August 07, 2018, 11:55:52 AM »
The real first amendment violation is that I can't call Optimus r e t a r d e d without being censored.
010

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22659 on: August 07, 2018, 12:01:21 PM »
Or you could make an argument that platform holders like Youtube have a responsibility to limit free speech when it becomes harmful, like with the Alex Jones, David Dukes, Richard Spencers of the world. I really don't see how random left wing pundits are compared as the leftist equivalent of Jones.  ???

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22660 on: August 07, 2018, 12:07:48 PM »
The real first amendment violation is that I can't call Optimus r e t a r d e d without being censored.

Phoenix Dark

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010

kingv

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benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22663 on: August 07, 2018, 12:26:54 PM »
Quote
Unless you have heard enough stories about Ross. Two former WL Ross colleagues remember the commerce secretary taking handfuls of Sweet’N Low packets from a nearby restaurant, so he didn’t have to go out and buy some for himself. One says workers at his house in the Hamptons used to call the office, claiming Ross had not paid them for their work. Another two people said Ross once pledged $1 million to a charity, then never paid. A commerce official called the tales “petty nonsense,” and added that Ross does not put sweetener in his coffee. 
DEBUNKED, MOVE ON

Nintex

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22664 on: August 07, 2018, 12:30:41 PM »
people get banned for posting picture of themselves breastfeeding on facebook, [...]
:kobeyuck :donot :exxy

Facebook is such a cesspool
🤴

nachobro

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22665 on: August 07, 2018, 12:32:04 PM »
Quote
Unless you have heard enough stories about Ross. Two former WL Ross colleagues remember the commerce secretary taking handfuls of Sweet’N Low packets from a nearby restaurant, so he didn’t have to go out and buy some for himself. One says workers at his house in the Hamptons used to call the office, claiming Ross had not paid them for their work. Another two people said Ross once pledged $1 million to a charity, then never paid. A commerce official called the tales “petty nonsense,” and added that Ross does not put sweetener in his coffee. 
DEBUNKED, MOVE ON
Breaking News: Wilbur Ross is actually just my Jewish grandparents

Kara

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VomKriege

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ὕβρις


agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22669 on: August 07, 2018, 01:43:49 PM »
 :dead

Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22670 on: August 07, 2018, 01:44:30 PM »
Dump truck full of L's all over my face. :mouf
©@©™

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22671 on: August 07, 2018, 01:47:27 PM »
https://twitter.com/Millie__Weaver/status/1026861399123927040

 :noooo not my president

also how should i use this information to inform my primary vote? :doge

Nintex

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22672 on: August 07, 2018, 01:50:19 PM »
https://twitter.com/Millie__Weaver/status/1026861399123927040

 :noooo not my president

also how should i use this to inform my primary vote? :doge
The Democrats are taking your rights and President away and are replacing them with a Disney produced Hillary animatronic.

Vote wisely my friend
🤴

Mandark

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Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22674 on: August 07, 2018, 01:54:05 PM »
As recently as last year lots of people were saying that if you tried suppressing Milo/whoever, it would just bring them more notoriety and success.

Now MAGAs are yelling about how it's their God-given right to have recommendation algorithms direct traffic to their pages.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22675 on: August 07, 2018, 01:54:14 PM »
Benji, I caved and voted for Whitmer.
010

shosta

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22676 on: August 07, 2018, 01:55:20 PM »
Democracies are built upon the principle that freedom of thought, opinion and speech and allowing opposite viewpoints make for better government. There's no reason it wouldn't be true for private collectives and we should always try, even in private settings, to keep that principle at heart with as few limitations as possible and reasonable.

I believe that democratic government should always try to incentivize it and not just abide to not stifle it in its lane.
I don't know why this didn't get more interaction but I completely agree. Free speech is about how we conduct ourselves as a society of coexisting citizenry, it's not just some guardrail to reign in legislative overreach. Just asking yourself why you would want to prevent the government from legislating the speech of other people should make that fairly apparent: we inherently believe the diversity of opinions has positive value in our society.

Fuck Alex Jones though
每天生气

shosta

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22677 on: August 07, 2018, 02:10:29 PM »
Now the Trump administration wants to limit citizenship for legal immigrants

Quote
The Trump administration is expected to issue a proposal in coming weeks that would make it harder for legal immigrants to become citizens or get green cards if they have ever used a range of popular public welfare programs, including Obamacare, four sources with knowledge of the plan told NBC News.

The move, which would not need congressional approval, is part of White House senior adviser Stephen Miller's plan to limit the number of migrants who obtain legal status in the U.S. each year

Self-deportation, but this time with legal immigrants
每天生气

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22678 on: August 07, 2018, 02:43:58 PM »
Shosta please, social media entities colluding to strip Alex Jones of his Free Speach is the real fascism.

Nintex

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #22679 on: August 07, 2018, 02:49:17 PM »
Why don't you just give Stephen Miller his own stretch of land and deport him there.

Everyone happy.  :doge


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Who decided he could write policies anyway. He should go and watch Fox News and tweet about it while enriching himself like the other members of the cabinet smh
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🤴