Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP (Read 6957557 times)

Mandark · « **Reply #22740 on:** August 25, 2018, 07:06:53 PM »

what you posted to kingv was a "gotcha" that basically accused him of being soft on eugenics

take a moment and check the mirror

Madrun Badrun · « **Reply #22741 on:** August 25, 2018, 07:08:15 PM »

Pro-choice people are not (in most cases) agreeing that fetuses are people and dehumanizing them as a means of argument to convince pro-lifers. They do not believe a fetus is a person. Convincing people of an argument only works when you have agreement over fundamentals like what constitutes a person and that is not going to happen.

Mandark · « **Reply #22742 on:** August 25, 2018, 07:09:40 PM »

Quote from: TheInfelicitousDandy on August 25, 2018, 07:08:15 PM

Pro-choice people are not (in most cases) agreeing that fetuses are people and dehumanizing them as a means of argument to convince pro-lifers. They do not believe a fetus is a person. Convincing people of an argument only works when you have agreement over fundamentals like what constitutes a person and that is not going to happen.

Honestly, most "pro-life" people don't believe the fetus is a full human. The consensus position of antiabortion activists is not to punish the mother criminally.

Oblivion · « **Reply #22743 on:** August 25, 2018, 07:13:33 PM »

Quote from: Mandark on August 25, 2018, 07:09:40 PM

Quote from: TheInfelicitousDandy on August 25, 2018, 07:08:15 PM
Pro-choice people are not (in most cases) agreeing that fetuses are people and dehumanizing them as a means of argument to convince pro-lifers. They do not believe a fetus is a person. Convincing people of an argument only works when you have agreement over fundamentals like what constitutes a person and that is not going to happen.

Honestly, most "pro-life" people don't believe the fetus is a full human. The consensus position of antiabortion activists is not to punish the mother criminally.

Yeah, I never got this. If abortion is murder, then the person committing the murder should be jailed/executed. But few people are brave enough like our own Jaydubya to advocate for such a thing.

Himu · « **Reply #22744 on:** August 25, 2018, 07:14:39 PM »

Quote from: TheInfelicitousDandy on August 25, 2018, 07:08:15 PM

Pro-choice people are not (in most cases) agreeing that fetuses are people and dehumanizing them as a means of argument to convince pro-lifers. They do not believe a fetus is a person. Convincing people of an argument only works when you have agreement over fundamentals like what constitutes a person and that is not going to happen.

I agree. Therein lies the sticking point of the argument. Therefore, saying to JayDub,"it's not a human, it has no feelings" is pointless. Because in his mind, you're all being dirty people who have dehumanizing life to make your actions seem good. You're basically confirming to him what a monster you are and he's probably showing your posts to his pro-life friends going,"see? They don't think the unborn have feelings. Look how evil they are." Meanwhile KingV thinks that's *laughs out loud* an actual argument *ahahahahaha* that will convince him. So you will never make any leeway on this argument because you're both operating on entirely different planes of reality. Your reality is different and no one wants to budge. So it's a pointless argument.

Great entertainment tho.

Mandark · « **Reply #22745 on:** August 25, 2018, 07:18:02 PM »

cindi, everyone here's known you way too long to ever believe you when you try to pull this "amused and above the fray" act

you're always in your feelings and we love ya for it

Madrun Badrun · « **Reply #22746 on:** August 25, 2018, 07:22:31 PM »

Oh Ok, I read your post wrong Cindy. I thought you meant that king was intentionally trying to dehumanize a fetus and not that he was just reinforcing Jay's view.

This also works both ways too. I don't think pro-life people are necessarily wrong. I think they have logical arguments, for the most part, if given assumptions that I don't agree with. On a good day, I also can see the moral imperative they might think they have to stop abortion given those assumptions. However, in general, I view pro-lifers as religious nuts who don't argue in good faith nor actually care about issues like human rights. Mostly because those who tend to lead internet crusades about abortion are just those people.

Mandark · « **Reply #22747 on:** August 25, 2018, 07:27:41 PM »

Quote from: Oblivion on August 25, 2018, 07:13:33 PM

Yeah, I never got this. If abortion is murder, then the person committing the murder should be jailed/executed. But few people are brave enough like our own Jaydubya to advocate for such a thing.

I'd want to do more reading before feeling solid about this opinion, but from what I've seen of the 1970's-era antiabortion activism and punditry, they used to be much more likely to frame abortion as part of a larger moral decay, along with no-fault divorce, the pill, increasing acceptance of homosexuality, etc. Views on abortion still correlate fairly well with other opinions about traditional sexual mores, but as Americans have gotten more accepting of those other issues, it would make sense that rhetoric based around the rights and personhood of the fetus would be stronger.

Himu · « **Reply #22748 on:** August 25, 2018, 07:33:03 PM »

Quote from: TheInfelicitousDandy on August 25, 2018, 07:22:31 PM

Oh Ok, I read your post wrong Cindy. I thought you meant that king was intentionally trying to dehumanize a fetus and not that he was just reinforcing Jay's view.

This also works both ways too. I don't think pro-life people are necessarily wrong. I think they have logical arguments, for the most part, if given assumptions that I don't agree with. On a good day, I also can see the moral imperative they might think they have to stop abortion given those assumptions. However, in general, I view pro-lifers as religious nuts who don't argue in good faith nor actually care about issues like human rights. Mostly because those who tend to lead internet crusades about abortion are just those people.

I can fully understand your viewpoint and I half agree. I think one argument that makes it easy for pro-lifers to jump on pro-choicers is the one of,"it's not a person" because, I mean, if it's not a person then what is it? When it's born will it turn into a giraffe? A fucking cat? So you're not going to convince them that way. Another argument that usually doesn't work on them is stuff like rape because, although they'll admit that rape is awful, that the baby is an innocent and thereby shouldn't have their life ended because of that act of evil. So that's non starter too. In my experience the best method of getting through to them is the one I brought up earlier which highlights their cognitive dissonance. In Catholic class (RCIA) they admitted that murder was wrong but not all murder is equal. For example, killing in self defense is "less of a sin" than killing out of revenge. If that's the case, surely there's room for having an abortion because of rape being an act of self defense also. Pro-lifers realize things aren't black and white with murder, while contending that abortion is murder which they say isn't black and white. Game. Set. Match. The only way to convince them they're in the wrong is to show them that having an abortion isn't a black and white decision. Any other argument, such as arguments of non-personhood merely confirm their biases against you and do not work in the pro-choicers favor.

Mandark · « **Reply #22749 on:** August 25, 2018, 07:38:39 PM »

For anyone who believes women should have ready access to safe abortions and the right to make the decision for themselves, arguing from logic that only justifies abortion in a small fraction of cases seems... suboptimal.

Himu · « **Reply #22750 on:** August 25, 2018, 07:47:02 PM »

Dandy:

Vice President Biden shows a good example as to how you can possibly achieve this.

Quote

Q: What role your religion has played in your own personal views on abortion?

RYAN: I don't see how a person can separate their public life from their private life or from their faith.

BIDEN: My religion defines who I am. And I've been a practicing Catholic my whole life. And it has particularly informed my social doctrine. Catholic social doctrine talks about taking care of those who can't take care of themselves, people who need help. With regard to abortion, I accept my church's position that life begins at conception. That's the church's judgment. I accept it in my personal life. But I refuse to impose it on equally devout Christians and Muslims and Jews and--I just refuse to impose that on others, unlike my friend here, the congressman. I do not believe that we have a right to tell other people that women can't control their body. It's a decision between them and their doctor, in my view. And the Supreme Court--I'm not going to interfere with that.

I think this is how what most pro-lifers think. And I feel that it's probably the best way to get to someone who has that position. The real trouble comes from dogmatic thinking of,"it's always bad" but that's where you introduce the good old self defense argument and make them make a concession that not all murder is on the same level. If they can admit that there's a difference between killing in war time or in self defense and killing out of revenge or something else, then it might be possible to convince them that not all people who have abortions are the monsters they think they are.

seagrams hotsauce · « **Reply #22751 on:** August 25, 2018, 08:23:20 PM »

mccain kicked the bucket

Nola · « **Reply #22752 on:** August 25, 2018, 08:30:19 PM »

Quote from: JayDubya on August 25, 2018, 05:47:24 PM

I am concerned with equality and human rights, but on the important human rights issue of our time you are on the side of ignorance and bigotry.

At first I assumed you were just trying to talk about abortion again, but then you ended on the bigotry note.

I almost want to ask what it is you think I am a bigot toward, but I quickly remember that pretty much everything you have to say these days are just more condescending and cranky versions of the circular arguments you made a decade ago on GAF, so I'm guessing it is probably just some combination of your old standbys.

Nola · « **Reply #22753 on:** August 25, 2018, 08:33:46 PM »

Quote from: Oblivion on August 25, 2018, 05:54:29 PM

Protesting against and calling national attention to police brutality has "fuckall" to do with civil rights?

I mean he is someone that routinely used to argue, essentially, that the rights of established property owners in apartheid states like Jim Crow America should forever take precedence over correcting historical injustices.

Jaydubya's grasp and capacity for empathy toward historical social injustice has always been fucked.

Mandark · « **Reply #22754 on:** August 25, 2018, 08:38:12 PM »

defining embryos as human beings is subjective

kingv · « **Reply #22755 on:** August 25, 2018, 08:38:27 PM »

So if I have the right to shoot somebody who comes into my house to steal my TV, why don’t I have the right to kill somebody that invaded my very body to get me to give them money for the next 18 years?

seagrams hotsauce · « **Reply #22756 on:** August 25, 2018, 08:42:32 PM »

he's talkin bout rape ya fucken ninny

Oblivion · « **Reply #22757 on:** August 25, 2018, 08:46:51 PM »

Quote from: Jack Remington on August 25, 2018, 08:39:23 PM

McCain needed to go before the end of May or after November.

Worst fucking timing ever.

John McCain dying at an inopportune moment is just another in a long list of disappointments by John McCain.

seagrams hotsauce · « **Reply #22758 on:** August 25, 2018, 08:47:57 PM »

Quote from: JayDubya on August 25, 2018, 08:45:49 PM

Quote from: seagrams hotsauce on August 25, 2018, 08:42:32 PM
he's talkin bout rape ya fucken ninny

Abortion supporters are a consistent and broken clock in this regard; the debate is always and instantly all about rape. Percentage of cases where this is salient? Not even one percent, but a fraction.

It's usually just a blatant emotional appeal / setup for a logical fallacy.

yet you still think rape babies will grow up to lead normal productive lives. really makes u think

Oblivion · « **Reply #22759 on:** August 25, 2018, 08:49:58 PM »

McCain died doing what he loved. Screwing over Democrats

kingv · « **Reply #22760 on:** August 25, 2018, 08:51:16 PM »

Cindi, I see your point that newborns are also semi-people in a lot of ways, but the difference is that you can just hand over the baby. The only reason there is an argument is because it’s not simple and there is subjectivity to it. Nobody thinks Nutting into a napkin is murder. most people don’t think personhood happens the exact moment the egg and sperm meet?

That seems like nonsense to me and is essentially a religious position akin to saying that some sort of “magic” occurs when the two meet, like the soul being willed into existence.

kingv · « **Reply #22761 on:** August 25, 2018, 08:52:20 PM »

Quote from: JayDubya on August 25, 2018, 08:40:34 PM

Quote from: kingv on August 25, 2018, 08:38:27 PM
So if I have the right to shoot somebody who comes into my house to steal my TV, why don’t I have the right to kill somebody that invaded my very body to get me to give them money for the next 18 years?

Not only did you put them there, in a helpless state, dependent on you, they literally wouldn't exist without your actions.

How is this their fault? How is this an invasion? Please use logic and reason.

Ok, but what if the baby is black?

nachobro · « **Reply #22762 on:** August 25, 2018, 08:53:51 PM »

just abort every baby, it's the only fair solution

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #22763 on:** August 25, 2018, 08:54:09 PM »

I for one have been consistent in wanting to allow abortion up until the 36th trimester, because sometimes you just have a shitty kid and the option should be there to responsibly take care of it.

Nola · « **Reply #22764 on:** August 25, 2018, 08:55:59 PM »

Blastulas's are humans! Why? Because I concluded they are. And therefore here is all this other nonsense I built off that subjective premise that ends with me advocating the death penalty for destroying a lump of cells(which I will say, at least Jay has the balls to play this out to its logical conclusion despite how insane it is). So fuck you sick motherfuckers!

....Also, have I told you about how the real victims in apartheid states are the property owners that shouldn't be asked to not systematically collude to freeze out and oppress people in their community based on race.

Oblivion · « **Reply #22765 on:** August 25, 2018, 09:01:08 PM »

Quote from: Nola on August 25, 2018, 08:33:46 PM

Quote from: Oblivion on August 25, 2018, 05:54:29 PM
Protesting against and calling national attention to police brutality has "fuckall" to do with civil rights?

I mean he is someone that routinely used to argue, essentially, that the rights of established property owners in apartheid states like Jim Crow America should forever take precedence over correcting historical injustices.

Jaydubya's grasp and capacity for empathy toward historical social injustice has always been fucked.

Yeah, I know, but for some weird reason I thought that he would show an iota of sympathy for people being killed by agents of the state. Or at the very least, keep his thought to himself on that particular matter.

nachobro · « **Reply #22766 on:** August 25, 2018, 09:02:42 PM »

Quote from: Exodust on August 25, 2018, 08:58:36 PM

Quote from: nachobro on August 25, 2018, 08:53:51 PM
just abort every baby, it's the only fair solution

I think this whole dumb debate could use an abortion.

i feel like we both said these same things the last time this debate happened

Oblivion · « **Reply #22767 on:** August 25, 2018, 09:04:36 PM »

Quote from: Exodust on August 25, 2018, 08:58:36 PM

Quote from: nachobro on August 25, 2018, 08:53:51 PM
just abort every baby, it's the only fair solution

I think this whole dumb debate could use an abortion.

For the record, I tried to steer this thread towards making fun of Milo for being for becoming the gay, right-wing version of MC Hammer, but everyone else just couldn't stop engaging with Jaydubya, so...

Madrun Badrun · « **Reply #22768 on:** August 25, 2018, 09:04:39 PM »

Mccain died

kingv · « **Reply #22769 on:** August 25, 2018, 09:09:02 PM »

Quote from: Human Snorenado on August 25, 2018, 08:54:09 PM

I for one have been consistent in wanting to allow abortion up until the 36th trimester, because sometimes you just have a shitty kid and the option should be there to responsibly take care of it.

I remember when Nebraska had this law to just allow anybody to hand their kid over to the star at any time and people were driving from all over the country to drop off their kids.

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #22770 on:** August 25, 2018, 09:15:27 PM »

Quote from: kingv on August 25, 2018, 09:09:02 PM

Quote from: Human Snorenado on August 25, 2018, 08:54:09 PM
I for one have been consistent in wanting to allow abortion up until the 36th trimester, because sometimes you just have a shitty kid and the option should be there to responsibly take care of it.

I remember when Nebraska had this law to just allow anybody to hand their kid over to the star at any time and people were driving from all over the country to drop off their kids.

Kids suck! 2nd worst std you can get. Why do you think KIDS and AIDS are just one letter off?

agrajag · « **Reply #22771 on:** August 25, 2018, 09:15:43 PM »

Jaydubya the type of dude to force a minority rape victim living below the poverty line to carry a rape-baby to term and then vote to remove her government assistance and health insurance for the baby.

Himu · « **Reply #22772 on:** August 25, 2018, 09:16:07 PM »

Rest in peace John.

Himu · « **Reply #22773 on:** August 25, 2018, 09:22:59 PM »

Seriously though, Trump and his administrations treatment of McCain, a national hero and terminal brain cancer patient truly made me sick. I'm glad he's at rest after his awful battle with brain cancer, but now it's going to be aggravating watching the "president" cajole to his family after shitting on him in life. Same for those Republican that called him a RINO even as late as fucking yesterday. Makes me sick.

agrajag · « **Reply #22774 on:** August 25, 2018, 09:28:00 PM »

Quote from: Cindi Mayweather on August 25, 2018, 09:22:59 PM

Seriously though, Trump and his administrations treatment of McCain, a national hero and terminal brain cancer patient truly made me sick. I'm glad he's at rest after his awful battle with brain cancer, but now it's going to be aggravating watching the "president" cajole to his family after shitting on him in life. Same for those Republican that called him a RINO even as late as fucking yesterday. Makes me sick.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1033515425336885248

Mandark · « **Reply #22775 on:** August 25, 2018, 09:33:45 PM »

Quote from: JayDubya on August 25, 2018, 08:39:08 PM

Quote from: Mandark on August 25, 2018, 08:38:12 PM
defining embryos as human beings is subjective

Objectively false.

nah it's true, we been through this

Himu · « **Reply #22776 on:** August 25, 2018, 09:33:52 PM »

Quote from: agrajag on August 25, 2018, 09:28:00 PM

Quote from: Cindi Mayweather on August 25, 2018, 09:22:59 PM
Seriously though, Trump and his administrations treatment of McCain, a national hero and terminal brain cancer patient truly made me sick. I'm glad he's at rest after his awful battle with brain cancer, but now it's going to be aggravating watching the "president" cajole to his family after shitting on him in life. Same for those Republican that called him a RINO even as late as fucking yesterday. Makes me sick.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1033515425336885248

Yeah. Fucking. Right.

Mandark · « **Reply #22777 on:** August 25, 2018, 09:40:00 PM »

Trump was consistently petty and disrespectful to McCain, and I hope that people who are talking about that today (especially those with platforms in the media and politics) also recognize the similarity to how Trump regularly treats whole swaths of people.

Shouldn't have to risk your life in a war to expect some baseline of decency from the president.

agrajag · « **Reply #22778 on:** August 25, 2018, 09:46:55 PM »

Quote

I hope that people who are talking about that today (especially those with platforms in the media and politics) also recognize the similarity to how Trump regularly treats whole swaths of people.

don't hold your breath for it

TVC15 · « **Reply #22779 on:** August 25, 2018, 09:48:40 PM »

Why the fuck are people debating abortion with JayDubya? Are you that fucking bored? Have you run out of cinder blocks to slam on your fucking dicks?

Madrun Badrun · « **Reply #22780 on:** August 25, 2018, 09:49:31 PM »

My last block broke.

Mandark · « **Reply #22781 on:** August 25, 2018, 09:50:30 PM »

https://twitter.com/JohnKerry/status/1033163772310040576

sphagnum · « **Reply #22782 on:** August 25, 2018, 09:53:52 PM »

John McCain: "I hate the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live."

Vietnam wins again!

Himu · « **Reply #22783 on:** August 25, 2018, 09:59:11 PM »

Quote from: TVC 15 on August 25, 2018, 09:48:40 PM

Why the fuck are people debating abortion with JayDubya? Are you that fucking bored? Have you run out of cinder blocks to slam on your fucking dicks?

i'd suck mac's dick

Mandark · « **Reply #22784 on:** August 25, 2018, 10:04:45 PM »

aaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Mandark · « **Reply #22785 on:** August 25, 2018, 10:15:40 PM »

not skimming over the pages where people argue with jd about borshuns

Great Rumbler · « **Reply #22786 on:** August 25, 2018, 10:44:13 PM »

Quote from: Mandark on August 25, 2018, 10:15:40 PM

not skimming over the pages where people argue with jd about borshuns

Barshens?

Madrun Badrun · « **Reply #22787 on:** August 25, 2018, 11:36:16 PM »

https://twitter.com/MarlonVids/status/1033192273159303168?s=19

Alex Jones watching trans porn

thehunter116 · « **Reply #22788 on:** August 26, 2018, 12:15:53 AM »

https://twitter.com/Beschizza/status/1033519881268940806

Himu · « **Reply #22789 on:** August 26, 2018, 12:17:33 AM »

Quote from: TheInfelicitousDandy on August 25, 2018, 11:36:16 PM

https://twitter.com/MarlonVids/status/1033192273159303168?s=19

Alex Jones watching trans porn

Oblivion · « **Reply #22790 on:** August 26, 2018, 12:34:38 AM »

Quote from: Mandark on August 25, 2018, 10:15:40 PM

not skimming over the pages where people argue with jd about borshuns

I was arguing with JD on the NFL protests, not abortions. That's strike 2, Mandy.

Nola · « **Reply #22791 on:** August 26, 2018, 01:16:07 AM »

Quote from: Shostakovich on August 25, 2018, 11:30:57 PM

There's no way this is real
(Image removed from quote.)

Misplaced colors and predominantly white...seems pretty on brand to me.

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #22792 on:** August 26, 2018, 02:00:06 AM »

Rest in War, Senator.

(He would have wanted it that way)

Nintex · « **Reply #22793 on:** August 26, 2018, 07:01:02 AM »

Trump learning the kids how to draw a Dutch flag

Mollys Fruity Loops · « **Reply #22794 on:** August 26, 2018, 09:16:41 AM »

Quote from: TheInfelicitousDandy on August 25, 2018, 11:36:16 PM

https://twitter.com/MarlonVids/status/1033192273159303168?s=19

Alex Jones watching trans porn

I'm a pioneer, I'm an explorer, I'm a human, and I'm cumming!

Nintex · « **Reply #22795 on:** August 26, 2018, 11:02:57 AM »

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bm7HFb3gMOc/

Yup makes sense. I always send a picture of myself when someone dies to honor them.

HardcoreRetro · « **Reply #22796 on:** August 26, 2018, 11:35:17 AM »

Was hoping for the always tasteful selfie with corpse.

Maiden Voyage · « **Reply #22797 on:** August 26, 2018, 01:05:42 PM »

Assimilate · « **Reply #22798 on:** August 26, 2018, 04:21:30 PM »

John McCain the epitome of a typical white dude failing up.

He was a shitty military student, but was given the opportunity to be a pilot. Was a shitty pilot but was given a chance to captain during Vietnam . Was a shitty husband, somehow finds a way to marry (in his 40s) a very rich heiress. A shitty politician but got a chance to run for president TWICE. Responsible for ushering in Sarah Palin and opening the door for Donald Trump

is now idolized by Liberals on mainstream media after his death.

Mandark · « **Reply #22799 on:** August 26, 2018, 06:58:38 PM »

Scoop: Republicans secretly study their coming hell

Quote

Axios has obtained a spreadsheet that's circulated through Republican circles on and off Capitol Hill — including at least one leadership office — that meticulously previews the investigations Democrats will likely launch if they flip the House.

...

President Trump’s tax returns
Trump family businesses — and whether they comply with the Constitution's emoluments clause, including the Chinese trademark grant to the Trump Organization
Trump's dealings with Russia, including the president's preparation for his meeting with Vladimir Putin
The payment to Stephanie Clifford — a.k.a. Stormy Daniels
James Comey's firing
Trump's firing of U.S. attorneys
Trump's proposed transgender ban for the military
Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin's business dealings
White House staff's personal email use
Cabinet secretary travel, office expenses, and other misused perks
Discussion of classified information at Mar-a-Lago
Jared Kushner's ethics law compliance
Dismissal of members of the EPA board of scientific counselors
The travel ban
Family separation policy
Hurricane response in Puerto Rico
Election security and hacking attempts
White House security clearances

These fuckin' guys.

News:

Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP (Read 6957557 times)