US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP

[Phoenix Dark]

*Toxic Adam casts Summon Mandark*

[Mr. Gundam]

Spicer called DeVos a "qualified educator." W.T.F.

[brawndolicious]

I thought the main reason diesel cars are rare in the US is because of our stricter smog standards?

Regardless, Trump appointed an oil evangelist to head the DOE, and no one knows whether that was out of ignorance or spite. So his goals are set a lot further than a one decade rollback but we'll see how far we can plummet.

Personally, it's fracking and coal mining that I'm more worried about, since it's mostly rural, poor people who get their groundwater shit on by industrial waste and they can't afford the extra treatment costs. If it wasn't for federal regulations, most water systems would just use a cheesecloth.

The one good thing about Trump being elected is that the EPAs biggest priority right now is water quality and I'm betting we'll see something far worse than Flint/Hurricane Katrina happening in conservative states, assuming the EPA brings regulations down to what Trump is hoping for. Which will hopefully make people wake up and realize that the government actually protects you at times.

[Phoenix Dark]

https://twitter.com/frankthorp/status/826870458066821121

[ToxicAdam]

I thought the main reason diesel cars are rare in the US is because of our stricter smog standards?

That's part of it, but it all boils down to price. Gas engines are cheaper to make/design, we tax gas at a cheaper rate than diesel, diesel engines require a more expensive exhaust regulator (that's where our smog standards factor in). Gas is more abundant and has more refining capacity, so it's more resistant to wild swings in cost.

[james]

Democrats voted for Rex Tillerson

Same Democrats that complained that the voters didnt all agree on Hillary Im sure

[etiolate]

To explain why to not call it a Muslim Ban: Because it's actually not a Muslim Ban and you can't keep crying wolf.

This doesn't mean that Trump didn't talk about banning Muslims "until we figure this thing out" or whatever. It doesn't mean that the ban isn't questionable.

People have lost the value of simple children stories. People will ignore you if you keep diving into hysteria.

[Rufus]

People have no compunctions about hysteria when it's the right kind.

[Samson Manhug]

Half the country supports the ban so I doubt it's going anywhere. I can't imagine the courts agreeing its a religious test. That's not to say public protest hasn't been helpful, though. SIV (Iraqis who worked for American forces) holders now being treated like green card holders:

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/01/30/pentagon-scrambles-to-make-exception-for-iraqi-translators/

[Syph]

Case in point: am I fan of the temp immigration ban? Not really. Even one of my good friends was affected (Iranian). But do I think it's important that people note that more than 80% of the world's Muslims are exempt from the ban and that it is not unconstitutional? Yes.

I'm pretty sure this kind of plea copping is what Wrath was talking about. Trump literally campaigned on banning Muslims, and now it's "well it's only targeting 300 million people, so it's not as bad as people are saying". Just cornball minimilizing of very obviously heinous shit.

So I just shouldn't point out that it doesn't apply to the majority of Muslims? Or that it's not unconstitutional as the media says or Schumer intimates?
I should just let it slide that the Democrats cry bloody murder when Yates was fired when she serves at the pleasure of the President and there is precedent for her firing?

It's not plea copping. Nor is there some objective truth to the situation. What about the large percentage of Americans that are in favor?
(http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-poll-exclusive-idUSKBN15F2MG?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=Social)
(http://www.ipsos-na.com/download/pr.aspx?id=16379)
(the following is not directed at you) Everyone likes to make the moral argument. Funny, I don't remember people giving two shits in May 2011 when the Syrian conflict started. I don't recall people caring before the picture of the kid refugee washing up on shore went viral and celebrity publicists realized they could jump on it as "their issue".

If people want a moral argument, here's one: human beings are being killed, help them.

Of course it was hastily implemented and has glaring problems or gaps.
But that still doesn't take away from the underlying right to choose who enters your country.
Why can't there be a discussion?

[Trent Dole]

Less than half of people polled approving doesn't really help the 'pro' argument dude.

[Syph]

Less than half of people polled approving doesn't really help the 'pro' argument dude.

I said large percentage (30-40% is large isn't it) and the point was to say it's not some unanimous topic just because people are protesting. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

[Samson Manhug]

49% of Americans approve according the Reuters poll. Considering only 26% of the electorate voted for Trump, I'd say that's significant. As many people support the ban as oppose it. Right or wrong, the American people clearly are not united in their opposition to it.

[Syph]

49% of Americans approve according the Reuters poll. Considering only 26% of the electorate voted for Trump, I'd say that's significant. As many people support the ban as oppose it. Right or wrong, the American people clearly are not united in their opposition to it.

Exactly, and that poll becomes even more important because it was taken after the EO. (many right-wing sites were reporting higher approval numbers in past days but those were disingenuously based on polling conducted prior to the EO, using speculative language)

All I've been saying is that there isn't consensus so shouting people down isn't conducive to anything.

[FStop7]

Going to war over Gorsuch seems very ill-advised.  He's about what I'd expect from any Republican president and there are much bigger battles coming. 

I thought the main reason diesel cars are rare in the US is because of our stricter smog standards?

There are some very unfair regs aimed at diesels in California. 

US emissions regs on the whole are stricter than Europe's.  And it's often unnecessary/pointless.

[Great Rumbler]

Democrats voted for Rex Tillerson

Same Democrats that complained that the voters didnt all agree on Hillary Im sure

Just so we're clear, the vote was 56-43.

[Syph]

Democrats voted for Rex Tillerson

Same Democrats that complained that the voters didnt all agree on Hillary Im sure

Just so we're clear, the vote was 56-43.

Yup, Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia, Senator Mark Warner of Virginia, and Senator Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota were the Dems.

In addition:

Of the two independents in the senate, Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont voted against Rex Tillerson, but Senator Angus King of Maine voted for him.

[Let's Cyber]

 

Thanks for clearing up the confusion, Sean.

[nachobro]

trump couldn't even be bothered to hire a good liar

[james]

Maybe Sean Spicer holds the keys to the piss tape

[Nola]

To explain why to not call it a Muslim Ban: Because it's actually not a Muslim Ban and you can't keep crying wolf.

This doesn't mean that Trump didn't talk about banning Muslims "until we figure this thing out" or whatever. It doesn't mean that the ban isn't questionable.

People have lost the value of simple children stories. People will ignore you if you keep diving into hysteria.

I think I said it before, but say that to the Tea Party.

I might not like the strategy, but 100% obstructionism combined with catastrophizing everything the opposition does is part of why Republicans now hold the government.

[Nola]

49% of Americans approve according the Reuters poll. Considering only 26% of the electorate voted for Trump, I'd say that's significant. As many people support the ban as oppose it. Right or wrong, the American people clearly are not united in their opposition to it.

Exactly, and that poll becomes even more important because it was taken after the EO. (many right-wing sites were reporting higher approval numbers in past days but those were disingenuously based on polling conducted prior to the EO, using speculative language)

All I've been saying is that there isn't consensus so shouting people down isn't conducive to anything.

Remains to be seen what this actually means though. One just because it's the honeymoon phase of the policy. Doesn't always last.

Plus, how many times did Obama or Bush get positive approval for individual actions or aspects of their policy only to sit with negative approval ratings? People are weird creatures and most don't put much effort into their political opinions.

[seagrams hotsauce]

Case in point: am I fan of the temp immigration ban? Not really. Even one of my good friends was affected (Iranian). But do I think it's important that people note that more than 80% of the world's Muslims are exempt from the ban and that it is not unconstitutional? Yes.

I'm pretty sure this kind of plea copping is what Wrath was talking about. Trump literally campaigned on banning Muslims, and now it's "well it's only targeting 300 million people, so it's not as bad as people are saying". Just cornball minimilizing of very obviously heinous shit.

So I just shouldn't point out that it doesn't apply to the majority of Muslims? Or that it's not unconstitutional as the media says or Schumer intimates?
I should just let it slide that the Democrats cry bloody murder when Yates was fired when she serves at the pleasure of the President and there is precedent for her firing?

It's not plea copping. Nor is there some objective truth to the situation. What about the large percentage of Americans that are in favor?
(http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-poll-exclusive-idUSKBN15F2MG?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=Social)
(http://www.ipsos-na.com/download/pr.aspx?id=16379)
(the following is not directed at you) Everyone likes to make the moral argument. Funny, I don't remember people giving two shits in May 2011 when the Syrian conflict started. I don't recall people caring before the picture of the kid refugee washing up on shore went viral and celebrity publicists realized they could jump on it as "their issue".

If people want a moral argument, here's one: human beings are being killed, help them.

Of course it was hastily implemented and has glaring problems or gaps.
But that still doesn't take away from the underlying right to choose who enters your country.
Why can't there be a discussion?

Point out the shit you want, my point is you're acting like this is no big thang. People aren't flipping the fuck out because of some political tribalism. If you think there isn't a 'moral argument' against separating people from their families and locking people out of the country with zero notice or putting four year olds in handcuffs, I don't really know what to say to you.

[VomKriege]

trump couldn't even be bothered to hire a good liar

Word is that he wasn't Trump first choice.
Spicer is also a dyed in the wood Beltway apparatchik. Wouldn't be surprised the job is miserable sometimes to him.

[FStop7]

"Frederick Douglass?  That's the guy who invented peanut butter, right?" 

[Atramental]

"Frederick Douglass?  That's the guy who invented peanut butter, right?" 

Nah, you racist! He invented the cotton gin.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

[Phoenix Dark]

Fredrick Douglas was a race traitor who married a white woman instead of a black queen. 

[Madrun Badrun]

Frederick Douglas had black and went back.  Truly an exceptional man. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Exceptional in that Helen Pitts Douglass wasn't fat

[close]

[Boredfrom]

So it seem Trump threatened to send troops to Mexico to fight the Narco

http://time.com/4657474/donald-trump-enrique-pena-nieto-mexico-bad-hombres/

lol Good luck with that. A war so close to home?

I mentioned before that Mexican Politicans have their fair share of Donald Trump esque demagogues so people are already saying that EPN is weak because he took it stride... but is clear to the Federal Goverment that they know now that Trump doesnt have any idea of what he is talking about.

[Mandark]

Why can't there be a discussion?

In some cases, people will have such incompatible perspectives that no dialogue will actually be productive. Like, you think that #whitegenocide is something which should at least be considered seriously. For a lot of people, that's a clear sign that talking things out will be a waste of time.

[Boredfrom]

Why can't there be a discussion?

In some cases, people will have such incompatible perspectives that no dialogue will actually be productive. Like, you think that #whitegenocide is something which should at least be considered seriously. For a lot of people, that's a clear sign that talking things out will be a waste of time.

Or #Onlywhitesareracists

[Syph]

Point out the shit you want, my point is you're acting like this is no big thang. People aren't flipping the fuck out because of some political tribalism. If you think there isn't a 'moral argument' against separating people from their families and locking people out of the country with zero notice or putting four year olds in handcuffs, I don't really know what to say to you.

My parents are immigrants who lived in a refugee camp for a year because the USA wouldn't admit them and that is why I was eventually born in Canada.

I literally already conceded there is a moral argument (and then also noted that has been present for a long time); I'm asking for a non-moral argument.

Why can't there be a discussion?

In some cases, people will have such incompatible perspectives that no dialogue will actually be productive. Like, you think that #whitegenocide is something which should at least be considered seriously. For a lot of people, that's a clear sign that talking things out will be a waste of time.

I have never in my entire life used that phrase not to mention I've made maybe 3 posts ever about Mark Steyn (who I assume you're alluding to?). And "a lot of people" are free to look at publicly available birth-rates, if we really want to go down that road. Or watch the Munk Debate on the topic. But not really sure where that shot came from.

[Mandark]

It's not a shot, it's an explanation.

[Madrun Badrun]

explanations fired

[etiolate]

They're burning trees in Berkeley to stop Milo from talking about Halloween costumes.

[Phoenix Dark]

https://www.thenation.com/article/leaked-draft-of-trumps-religious-freedom-order-reveals-sweeping-plans-to-legalize-discrimination/

but Optimus told us it was fake news

[Joe Molotov]

https://www.thenation.com/article/leaked-draft-of-trumps-religious-freedom-order-reveals-sweeping-plans-to-legalize-discrimination/

but Optimus told us it was fake news

This is fake news too. Now stop bullying Trump and let him enjoy his participation trophy for getting the second most votes.

[Great Rumbler]

Instead, President Trump blasted Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull over a refu­gee agreement and boasted about the magnitude of his electoral college win, according to senior U.S. officials briefed on the Saturday exchange. Then, 25 minutes into what was expected to be an hour-long call, Trump abruptly ended it.

At one point Trump informed Turnbull that he had spoken with four other world leaders that day — including Russian President Vladi­mir Putin — and that “This was the worst call by far.”

 

[Great Rumbler]

Oh, also this happened:

President Donald Trump personally approved a US commando raid in Yemen that left one elite serviceman dead and may have killed an eight-year-old American girl, the US military has told the Guardian.

At least 14 people died in Sunday’s raid by the elite Joint Special Operations Command, which was the subject of a preliminary inquiry to determine if allegations of civilian deaths were sufficiently credible to merit a full investigation.

On Wednesday night, US central command said in a statement that the team conducting the inquiry had already confirmed that civilians were “likely killed” in the raid and that “casualties may include children”. It is continuing to look into whether there “were any still-undetected civilian casualties”.

Obama had previously vetoed the raid.

[Nola]

https://www.thenation.com/article/leaked-draft-of-trumps-religious-freedom-order-reveals-sweeping-plans-to-legalize-discrimination/

but Optimus told us it was fake news

This is fake news too. Now stop bullying Trump and let him enjoy his participation trophy for getting the second most votes.

Democrats really should be driving this home more.

They got more votes for the Senate and the Presidency.

One it gives them standing to be obstructionist and frame Trump as the extremist he is and give the base a sense they are hearing their cries, and two, it is just too much fun predicting what hallowed ground or sacred tradition will end in a petulant hissy fit.

[Rufus]

Instead, President Trump blasted Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull over a refu­gee agreement and boasted about the magnitude of his electoral college win, according to senior U.S. officials briefed on the Saturday exchange. Then, 25 minutes into what was expected to be an hour-long call, Trump abruptly ended it.

At one point Trump informed Turnbull that he had spoken with four other world leaders that day — including Russian President Vladi­mir Putin — and that “This was the worst call by far.”

 

I'm glad that he's such a petty egomaniac. Really takes the edge off.

[agrajag]

So it seem Trump threatened to send troops to Mexico to fight the Narco

http://time.com/4657474/donald-trump-enrique-pena-nieto-mexico-bad-hombres/

lol Good luck with that. A war so close to home?

I mentioned before that Mexican Politicans have their fair share of Donald Trump esque demagogues so people are already saying that EPN is weak because he took it stride... but is clear to the Federal Goverment that they know now that Trump doesnt have any idea of what he is talking about.

They need to call Jason Blaha to pay his debt to his country and once more fight in the Powder Wars.

[bluemax]

https://twitter.com/michael_bodley/status/826979477645189120

[Madrun Badrun]

First light poles then the alt right. 

[Trent Dole]

Death to Amazon.com, maan.

First light poles then the alt right. 

[Joe Molotov]

Alt-Light

[etiolate]

https://twitter.com/sahilchinoy/status/827005465615810560



https://twitter.com/janeygak/status/826998516144697344





https://twitter.com/MisterMetokur/status/826991184635654145


Remember, you cheered on these people for punching Spencer.

[agrajag]

One can be pleased that a Nazi got punched and disapprove of a random woman being pepper sprayed. There's no moral dilemma here.

[etiolate]

One can be pleased that a Nazi got punched and disapprove of a random woman being pepper sprayed. There's no moral dilemma here.

There is actually, especially when its ANTIFA doing both and that's how they operate. You have to be an idiot to not realize giving the thumbs up to violence won't escalate, especially when its coming from a hateful group.

[chronovore]

Spicer called DeVos a "qualified educator." W.T.F.

[TakingBackSunday]

One can be pleased that a Nazi got punched and disapprove of a random woman being pepper sprayed. There's no moral dilemma here.

There is actually, especially when its ANTIFA doing both and that's how they operate. You have to be an idiot to not realize giving the thumbs up to violence won't escalate, especially when its coming from a hateful group.

You're an MRA.

[etiolate]

One can be pleased that a Nazi got punched and disapprove of a random woman being pepper sprayed. There's no moral dilemma here.

There is actually, especially when its ANTIFA doing both and that's how they operate. You have to be an idiot to not realize giving the thumbs up to violence won't escalate, especially when its coming from a hateful group.

You're an MRA.

In those videos, who is hitting women with poles because they think those women might have the wrong opinion?

[agrajag]

One can be pleased that a Nazi got punched and disapprove of a random woman being pepper sprayed. There's no moral dilemma here.

There is actually, especially when its ANTIFA doing both and that's how they operate. You have to be an idiot to not realize giving the thumbs up to violence won't escalate, especially when its coming from a hateful group.

 No one is giving a thumbs up to violence, people were just happy a nazi got punched

[agrajag]

I like thing A

I don't like thing B

that's literally all this is. There's no moral dilemma.

[FStop7]

Fredrick Douglas was a race traitor who married a white woman instead of a black queen. 

He created Blacked.

[etiolate]

People were applauding and approving thing A. Thing A represents violence. Applauding it represents okaying violence. Thing A was done by group X. Group X is all about violence to silence people. You applauding their actions. Now you are looking at the eventual outcomes.

You can't spin this. Just take the L.

[Nola]

People were applauding and approving thing A. Thing A represents violence. Applauding it represents okaying violence. Thing A was done by group X. Group X is all about violence to silence people. You applauding their actions. Now you are looking at the eventual outcomes.

You can't spin this. Just take the L.

    

[etiolate]

ANTIFA is about violence, intimidation, and threats to silence people. They aren't shy about this.

[agrajag]

Okay etoilet.

[etiolate]

Are you seriously doubting this? They repeatedly attack people and cause violence. It was just posted and you're trying to deny it?

You have so much faith in your mind reading and yet no faith in your eyes.