Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 6717259 times)

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benjipwns

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Citizens United is right up there with Shelby County for Roberts playing dumb about the consequences.
I think you've made a rare mistake here, Justice Roberts is simply an impartial umpire calling balls and strikes, sir.

agrajag

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Lol

Sorry there is no longer a designated safe apace for posting Wank Daddy vidyas

benjipwns

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here's the full segment, because why not:


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gokufujison
16 hours ago
The moment JP admitted that his conclusion about  not serving gay people was too fast, and that hes was wrong about it (because it was a spontaneous question/answer that needed more thoughts) made me respect him even more.


benjipwns

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oh yeah, them comments baby
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TP 2
35 minutes ago
UNEDITED VERSION IMMIDIATELY ! ....please
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JakeTheGiant
1 hour ago
This type of behavior is why young people aren't watching TV anymore. We're tired of producers manipulating interviews in a manner that feels disingenuous and dishonest. What was his next sentence? Was the reply shown lifted from a 3 minute explanation in which Peterson clarified his views?

No thanks, CC.
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Steven Parriman
12 hours ago
What a wonderful example of an edited hit piece hidden under the guise of comedy. I used to love Jim Jeffereys until he became a left wing activist.
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JeuxJester
17 hours ago
Jordan Peterson's views were really misrepresented through editing and a faulty narrative. This is Cathy Newman all over again. RELEASE THE FULL INTERVIEW!!!!!
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James Lewis
15 hours ago
Jim, i love your comedy but honestly this is a very intelligent man who quite frankly seems to just have gone over your head. What a sinister hit piece on a kind and inspirational man, disgraceful. You only need do 5 mins research to see that he despises Hitler and has studied intensely what makes people like Hitler tick. Jesus this was worse than the Cathy Newman interview.
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Ian Helgerson
15 hours ago
Jim, taking Jordan out of context like this shows your true character. You're the exact type that bends over and spreads for those who control.

benjipwns

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Quote
obligatoryprofile
17 hours ago
to be fair to J-Beep, when he compares dwindling western masculinity to the death of god, he's actually referring to the semiotic rebirth of the eternal chaos dragon that embodies the concept of women dying their hair bright colours.

benjipwns

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https://twitter.com/nobody_stop_me/status/991741815765241857
"you people have like worms in your brain honestly"

PUT THERE BY THE GLOBALISTS THROUGH VACCINES AND FED BY THE MIXTURE OF THE CHEMTRAILS

agrajag

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Bless the Queen for taking down that despot Bernie Huckabee Sanders, he would have us all eating rats

Mandark

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Almost everyone who rants about IDpol/cultural Marxism/etc. will also pay some lip service to the historical civil rights movement if it's brought up, so it's always a good time watching them try to explain how the two are somehow completely different.

The gay wedding cake also tripped up Dr. Holodomor in this thread.

benjipwns

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That's why you master the arcane details of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to oppose only the lone Title, study the historical record of private industry desegregating faster than the states (including as a result of public pressure/protests) as a leverage counterpoint, and draw focus to the far more important legal war on the institutional racism within access to the government, courts, voting, etc. that the acts and movement targeted for elimination. :rollsafe

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Or pick your fucking battles better ffs.

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Though I did enjoy when that GAF dude totally lost his mind at me when I said the entire rest of the Civil Rights/Voting Rights Acts and the movement as a cultural event were infinitely more important than ever legally proscribing racially based lunch counter service.

Also whenever I say crap like how I would rather know who the bigots are up front than when they hide behind the figleaf of the law all while providing discriminatory service within the letter of it.

But these days I tend to just save that type of thing for some place like here (or very certain workplaces), where you guys know I'm actually serious but not serious-serious wanna fight about it and just being a jerkoff.
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benjipwns

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sorry, I said "GAF dude" in the spoiler tags there, but thinking back, it may have actually been one of my first encounters with excelsiorlef

i couldn't find that thread but i did find one where, among re-expressing said viewpoint about institutional racism, i made these amazing posts, what's happened to me, i once had brilliant repartee (shush peanut gallery!)

has the bore softened me so?!?

Quote from: benjipwns
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Vote as if no one else but you gets a ballot.
But Malcom said: "A ballot is like a bullet. You don't throw your ballots until you see a target, and if that target is not within your reach, keep your ballot in your pocket."

Quote from: benjipwns
Or I can vote for Gloria La Riva to inform them of my choice for a proletariat revolution over more corporatism that doesn't hate gays and blacks as much.

Along with the letters I send cut out of magazines.

Quote from: benjipwns
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Wouldn't you only be throwing your vote away in a swing state? I live in Texas which is going to go red, so I can write in Dennis Reynolds the Implicator and it won't be "thrown away". Right?
Wrong. Hillary's national popular vote total will be one vote lower, which means you actually voted to support Trump's agenda which will unleash its fury upon you like the crashing of a thousand waves.

Trump is untethered and his rage knows no bounds.

Quote from: benjipwns
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I get what you are saying, but this is probably THE worst timing in US history to try and go for a 3rd party.
Electing a third party candidate for President in 1860 started a war that killed over half a million Americans.

benjipwns

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god i wish you fell into the same coma as Woj, only permanently and they performed experimental surgery on your pathetic hideous body, you disgusting piece of shit, you're worse than a Bernie supporter

Mandark

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I can't ever put too much stock into libertarian discussions of civil rights cause defending private property and markets will always, always, always take precedence over racial equality, and all the explanations and proposed solutions are reverse-engineered to fit that framework.


edit: which isn't to say there aren't libertarians out there who aren't anti-racist and are sincerely working to square that circle, but there's always going to be that implicit constraint.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 04:14:28 AM by Mandark »

benjipwns

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I must admit that I do find it unfortunate that in the United States that "civil rights" is so strongly tied to racial equality in a rather particular form. Even I'm guilty above of referring to the "civil rights movement" and essentially meaning only the 1950s/1960s efforts for African-Americans, not even the earlier and rather more important one in many respects. "Womens rights are civil rights" to me seems an obvious type of tautology and yet we're quite keen on enumerating the differences, at times almost first, as in something like the progressive stack/"oppression olympics" that have seized control of all our universities uniformally.

Though now I'm starting to complain about a form of "IDpol" and fall into cowardly Mandark's Marxist trap.

And of course I also have a framing of equality (and liberty) built on different assumptions and prioritizations, especially due to my pacifism. Though I agree that libertarians have an especially troubling framework from a philosophical point of view due to not only having no first principle definition of "aggression" but also the granting to a monopoly corporation authority to violate the NPA, but "only by consent" somehow. It's an obvious pandora's box where someone can quite reasonably say that being denied service is a form of aggression against them and that we're really debating whether it rises to a level of doing something about it. The libertarians who don't care for gays or trans or immigrants non-whites or so on easily find all kinds of justifications for even denying equality under the law, which isn't even a form of equality designed to redress or require coercion except against the state yet you'd think the wing in favor of that stuff were social studies warriors infiltrating "the movement" and help the Democratic Party

Personally, I choose to blame those poor souls who came to it from Rand and her totalitarian objectivist framework first. Can't trust anyone who cites a Rand book as their foundational or favorite philosophical work. (Also the paeleos. Thanks Murray.) A hierarchy of cultural liberty in which those individuals who live in say, Muslim, societies have no liberties of their own because their political culture doesn't allow them to the level of the objectivists desire. So the more free society (generally America) is entitled to wreck up the place and murder whoever it wants to impose a strong and lasting liberty.

Though I trust Zach Snyder to do her oppressive philosophy justice, bless up.

Also, talk about stupid "into the weeds" wankery nobody gives a shit about, wow.

Mandark

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especially due to my pacifism

Is this referring to the implicit violence of the state in enforcing access to public accommodations?

benjipwns

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I'm afraid that post may give a very strong misrepresentation about libertarianism.

No, this is still a more accurate image of our corner of the Nolan Chart. :rejoice


Oblivion

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That JP clip is great because it single-handedly:

- Makes JP look bad for losing an argument to a soy boy liberal T.V. host
- Makes the infallible lobster king seem like he said something wrong
- Causes some Grade-A cognitive dissonance with his lobster disciples who almost certainly disagree with him accepting the legitimacy of the CRA, but also have a compulsive, cultlike need to defend him for never being wrong

Mandark

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https://twitter.com/studentactivism/status/1009831575301906434


Tweet thread makes the points that:

1) There are three fairly common rationales for the social conservative side of the gay wedding cake brouhaha, yet Peterson wasn't familiar with the talking points in any of them. Any random Fox News dingus could have done better.

2) Given that Peterson got famous specifically for being vocal about the legal push for equal and fair treatment of LGBT people infringing on other people's freedoms, it's especially damning that he flubbed this so badly. This should have been in his wheelhouse.

benjipwns

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more compelling serious content from the LP front-runner's channel


Mandark

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How Free Were American Women in the Gilded Age?

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Even if you think you can condemn coverture on libertarian grounds

benjipwns

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especially due to my pacifism

Is this referring to the implicit violence of the state in enforcing access to public accommodations?
No, sorry, I meant it in a more general manner, I've shifted increasingly more extreme in a pacifist manner to where shorthanding me as anarcho-capitalist is probably implying too much about my views on property/capital/etc. even though I've always had more of the "left-libertarian" lean to things. Though I think calling people propertarians is one of the dumber insult names within the circle. Cosmotarian is still a favorite. (Paleo/Objectivist insult for the highly socially liberal types, reason is often accused of being run by cosmotarians since they focus on stuff like gay rights, immigrant rights, civil liberties in general, "nanny state", etc. more than taxes, feminazi's, cultural marxists and guns.)

So I meant it in reference to a discussion we had many moons ago regarding the level of "violence" in general we'd accept to achieve [Y] and that I've moved even farther away from your openly frank yet quite moderate position.

Actually, in the case of public accommodations, and I think this has been more a result of just stuff I've been working on and so forth, I kinda get more of a bug about what's being defined "public" versus "private" than the violence point. Asset forfeiture (and eminent domain obviously) cases turn a lot on that crap.

I've probably over rambled that into an etoliate like mush.

benjipwns

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How Free Were American Women in the Gilded Age?

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Even if you think you can condemn coverture on libertarian grounds
Before I could even get to that, I had to stop and go down to the comments to see if anyone else got triggered by this part:
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However, it’s hard to see why Jews belong on the “freer than they used to be” side of the ledger; 19th-century America not only had legal religious toleration, but as far as I’m aware, pogroms and other private anti-Semitic violence were virtually absent.
Well, as long as there weren't pogroms!

edit: also 19th Century America being a place of even legal religious toleration is pretty questionable

Oblivion

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https://twitter.com/studentactivism/status/1009831575301906434


Tweet thread makes the points that:

1) There are three fairly common rationales for the social conservative side of the gay wedding cake brouhaha, yet Peterson wasn't familiar with the talking points in any of them. Any random Fox News dingus could have done better.

2) Given that Peterson got famous specifically for being vocal about the legal push for equal and fair treatment of LGBT people infringing on other people's freedoms, it's especially damning that he flubbed this so badly. This should have been in his wheelhouse.

Hey, give the guy a break. After all, he's only thought about issues like this for 40 years!

benjipwns

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benjipwns

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Mandark

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The thing about the CRA is that state violence was already a factor with those businesses, it was just aimed at black "trespassers" rather than white property owners, and was somewhat less theoretical.

Which I expect you've already considered, but at that point it's hard for me to see an argument against Title II that's not, y'know, propertarian.

Mandark

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There's another fun JP clip from a while back where an interviewer asks him about climate change, JP says "Did you drive a car to this event?" with the confidence of someone declaring checkmate, then the guy says "no, I took public transit," just completely flummoxing Peterson.

Also I think we rushed too quickly to consensus on him having a Kermit voice when there's a really good case for Marvin the Martian, who I think also fits better with his persona.

Oblivion

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There was also the time Peterson was asked who his favorite feminist was:

https://www.facebook.com/TheEconomist/videos/10156589173744060/

edit:

Holy shit the fucker actually says "Yes. Florence Nightingale. It's like, good for Florence"

:rofl :rofl

VomKriege

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On a side note : I try not to be too vitriolic towards Melania Trump but holy hell at that last stunt. She's either a total tool or a piece of shit.
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benjipwns

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The thing about the CRA is that state violence was already a factor with those businesses, it was just aimed at black "trespassers" rather than white property owners, and was somewhat less theoretical.

Which I expect you've already considered, but at that point it's hard for me to see an argument against Title II that's not, y'know, propertarian.
But dismissing trespassers wasn't the only form of state violence that was a factor, the Jim Crow society was one with a legal framework that violated constitutionally protected rights that the federal government refused to protect. The federal government demolishing the states legal and government institutional structure may have been enough. Especially if ways were found to back them with criminal prosecutions.

After all, Title II violations are to the best of my knowledge dealt with purely as civil actions both then and now. It was rare for even that against the state institutional forces as long as they showed good faith cooperation, much like post-Brown. (Now, it also sounds like I'm describing how modern corporate crimes are handled.)

Since it's entirely hypothetical I am able to propose this two-step process while also suggesting that there may have been a better solution that Title II forestalled. Interest groups have regularly ran into "political solutions" that serve to block and redirect what might be more valuable legal cases, especially since the courts love to wash their hands of "political questions" which IIRC was one of those things best buds Scalia and Ginsberg despised.

edit: Of course, I shouldn't be too...favorable...about court decisions over shoddy legislation. What with my personal wheat consumption impacting interstate and global commerce.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2018, 06:10:53 AM by benjipwns »

Mandark

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Best case, conspiracy theory, scenario: she's still mad at her husband for humiliating her with affairs, only to be asked to clean up his latest PR disaster so she's sandbagging it.

benjipwns

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There was also the time Peterson was asked who his favorite feminist was:

https://www.facebook.com/TheEconomist/videos/10156589173744060/

edit:

Holy shit the fucker actually says "Yes. Florence Nightingale. It's like, good for Florence"

:rofl :rofl
oh god those pauses, that's mega cringe

VomKriege

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Quote
“He’s like Heath Ledger’s Joker—but without the operational excellence.” That was the grim after-action assessment of one senior G7 official with whom I spoke in the shocked aftermath of President Donald Trump’s savage post-summit tweets.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/06/trump-g7/562487/

 :lol :doge
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Oblivion

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One thing that's off about that Nightingale clip is that the interviewer implies that Peterson should dislike Nightingale because she was a believer of gender based job roles. But...isn't that exactly what Peterson believes as well?

benjipwns

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*dons Apprentice Political Science hat*

Melania always looked like she hated to be there, like it was interfering in her important schedule to show up for five minutes and have her husband praise her shitty products he was paying for and have a bunch of celebrities talk about how great it is and she was. Especially when Trump would do his whole "isn't she great? give her a round of applause, isn't she something?" routine.

I never got the impression she was dumb though. Her and Ivanka were obviously the two smartest people, especially Queen Ivanka. Donald Jr. was fairly easily distracted but still seemed competent enough to oversee some celebrities do fake business tasks and report back about it. Eric though...

The main problem with the show once the show shifted to celebrities is that Trump really stopped paying attention to the tasks or watching the footage and then stopped paying attention to Ivanka and Donald Jr. trying to tell him stuff. In the first two seasons he was more like Alan Sugar in that he took it seriously and would watch the footage and double check and he liked pouncing on lies and shit. Sugar has never stopped that part where he knows what goes on at least, Trump just started making calls from his gut or whatever about people he liked (which could change constantly) and trying to start fights between people to watch.

Mandark

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Since it's entirely hypothetical I am able to propose this two-step process while also suggesting that there may have been a better solution that Title II forestalled. Interest groups have regularly ran into "political solutions" that serve to block and redirect what might be more valuable legal cases, especially since the courts love to wash their hands of "political questions" which IIRC was one of those things best buds Scalia and Ginsberg despised.

I don't understand how doing this by judicial precedent rather than legislation would be "better" from your perspective.

In a practical sense, I think asking for black activists to hold off on some of their aspirations when they finally had political momentum on their side for the first time in ~90 years (and no reason to think things would remain that way) cause they could maybe get it in a few years through the courts seems...  :doge

benjipwns

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See, I think there's some clear distinctions here that you may not agree on and there's not a way to bridge that divide. I'm considering black activists as entirely separate from what Congress produced and called "civil rights" and shortly thereafter "voting rights" especially considering the black response in the years after those bills when whites were patting themselves on the back for once again solving everything. And the CRA64 still required them to work their cases though the courts, as they still have to bring them. I don't think it was until CRA68 (though Brownell proposed it for 57 and 60) that the Civil Rights Division gained legitimate powers to pursue their own cases and even then it doesn't automatically apply such as with Title II. Or in a recent example, the Martin/Zimmerman case.

Mostly I guess in this instance I'm merely pushing back on the notion, as Jeffries outright stated, that everything was terrible, Title II of CRA64 passes, we no longer have discrimination. Simply because it's a civil violation. If you document and report it. And the DOJ takes it up and doesn't drop it like when they seem to accidentally accuse state officials. And so on...

Or rather, I'm questioning why it's the part of all the legislation of that ten year period that all things hinge upon that hypothetically plucking just that piece out would serve to crumble the whole facade. Considering like, 14th Amendment plus all the other parts of the CRA57, CRA60, CRA64, VRA65 and CRA68.

Or why any of that implies I think blacks should have just stopped and waited without Title II. I don't think they should have been (or were) satisfied with the legislation we got, let alone the enforcement, expansion and evaluation of it since. I don't think it's just J.C. Watts, Walter Williams and Thomas Sowell who consider federal housing policy to be an absolute disaster despite CRA68's deliberate response to the disturbances of 1966-68.

Propertarian? Maybe it is. But I approach it instinctively more as ownership of your own labor. And I also have a bias where I consider a lot of legislation and regulation as essential to construct shields to actually protect and hide information by constructing a formal process regime of security theater that pursues safe, easy cases that don't rock the boat.

Or rather, to use the phrasing of our oldest foreign enemy again, for the purpose of the body charged with ensuring such that it can demonstrate "peace, order and good government."

benjipwns

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oh i forgot to report about Lou Dobbs' epic hate boner for Paul Ryan (the Chamber of Commerce, the Koch Bros, ILLUMINATI K STREET, etc... he repeats a whole list of these corrupt anti-Middle Class masters of Ryan like he's Hannity or something)




Judge Jeanine :lawd

http://www.newsweek.com/what-illuminati-k-street-foxs-lou-dobbs-says-group-pushing-immigration-reform-988325

Maiden Voyage

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On a side note : I try not to be too vitriolic towards Melania Trump but holy hell at that last stunt. She's either a total tool or a piece of shit.



Also...
https://twitter.com/TomArnold/status/1009953706748665858

This is getting to be just too stupid.

agrajag

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Either Michael Cohen has a tiny shrunken head like from the ending of Beetlejuice or Tom Arnold has a giant melon-head.

agrajag

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"We’ve been on the other side of the table and now we’re on the same side. It’s on! I hope he [Trump] sees the picture of me and Michael Cohen and it haunts his dreams,” Arnold told NBC News.

 :dead

Mandark

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Or rather, I'm questioning why it's the part of all the legislation of that ten year period that all things hinge upon that hypothetically plucking just that piece out would serve to crumble the whole facade.

This is really dishonest.

Nintex

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We're entering new levels of the DANGER ZONE.

First there was Trump talking about Qanon conspiracies during the cabinet meeting:
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“The people are suffering because of the Democrats,” Trump said. “So, we’ve created, and they’ve created, and they’ve let it happen — a massive child smuggling industry. That’s exactly what it has become.”
Saying that the immigration system (much like Q and his followers think) is actually a child smuggling ring hidden in plain sight.

But it gets better (or worse?)

The Trump people gave a guy wearing a Qanon shirt VIP access to the rally
https://twitter.com/Q_ANONBaby/status/1009614122642825217

Then Trump came out and pointed at his Q shirt


Qanon then confirmed that the Q movement would be more visible


After the Q guy got home he posted this and confirmed like others had done that Trump had made a 'Q' hand sign in acknowledgement of some other dude that brought a Q sign.


So now we have Trump actively feeding the Q conspiracy movement much like he had the Obama birth certificate movement.
 :comeon :dead

Meanwhile the 'sane?' Republicans are trying to hold Rosenstein in contempt of congress for not revealing the anti-Trump FBI text messages he had hidden.
🤴

Nola

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https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1009847187088347136



Not been much of a fan of Noah's show, but The Daily Show's Twitter has been hitting it out of the park lately with these videos lol

Cauliflower Of Love

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I wonder if tom arnold was in the shower, part of the spigot, or just straight railing trump.


spoiler (click to show/hide)
I mean I know which one it was, but it's nice to postulate.
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FStop7

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the fuck is a qanon?

oh it's the new shiny thing for the pizzagate fuckboys to fill their empty lives with.

zomgee

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the fuck is a qanon?

oh it's the new shiny thing for the pizzagate fuckboys to fill their empty lives with.

Birth certificate 2.0
rub


Nintex

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https://twitter.com/politico/status/1010234940745805824

Trump autographed the photo's of people killed by migrants as their grieving families talked about 'permanent seperation'.
Breh 
:mindblown
🤴

benjipwns

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Or rather, I'm questioning why it's the part of all the legislation of that ten year period that all things hinge upon that hypothetically plucking just that piece out would serve to crumble the whole facade.

This is really dishonest.
Sorry, this wasn't intended to be, especially towards the argument you specifically were making, rather more that "where you guys know I'm actually serious but not serious-serious wanna fight about it and just being a jerkoff" thing I warned about.

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or pick your fucking battles better benji ffs
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Great Rumbler

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https://twitter.com/politico/status/1010234940745805824

Trump autographed the photo's of people killed by migrants as their grieving families talked about 'permanent seperation'.
Breh 
:mindblown

Fits in nicely with Fox News' new talking point of "Well whatever, they're Mexican kids so it's fine, it's not like they're AMERICAN kids!"
dog

Nintex

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Someone bring Trump some Holomodor pictures so he can sign them.  :)
🤴

benjipwns

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stop trying to get Trump banned from The Bore breh

benjipwns

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tucker da god OBLITERATES black hypocrazy lieberal and shows him what it's like to really be WOKE instead of still stuck on the Democrap plantation

Tasty

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I miss etoilet.

For me to shit in!

Nola

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Boredfrom

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https://twitter.com/studentactivism/status/1009831575301906434


Tweet thread makes the points that:

1) There are three fairly common rationales for the social conservative side of the gay wedding cake brouhaha, yet Peterson wasn't familiar with the talking points in any of them. Any random Fox News dingus could have done better.

2) Given that Peterson got famous specifically for being vocal about the legal push for equal and fair treatment of LGBT people infringing on other people's freedoms, it's especially damning that he flubbed this so badly. This should have been in his wheelhouse.

Peterson is an opportunist but my impression is that he doesn’t necessarily identify as a hardcore conservative.

benjipwns

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rather than rewrite it, i'll quote from the...*throws up in mouth* thread
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The three, broadly speaking, are the libertarian (businesses have a right to discriminate), the anti-gay (businesses have a right to discriminate against gays specifically), and the free speech (businesses have a right to decline commissions that involve speech they abhor).

Any of those arguments would give him a soundbite response to the question asked, and the third would actually be a pretty good response. But he's not even engaged with the ideas of his own camp. He's just stumbling around in the dark.
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So Peterson doesn't have an opinion on bakers selling cakes to gay couples, but he knows he's supposed to have an opinion and what that opinion is, so he offers the opinion he's supposed to have. And the first time he gets pushback he responds definitively, and the second time he does the same thing. And then the interviewer points out that his second answer contradicts the first, and he's stuck. He's still got an out at this point: He can say that racist acts should be barred by law, but anti-gay acts shouldn't be. And you can see those wheels turning in his head around the 30-second mark. But he doesn't want to say that. So he's stuck.

And again, the reason he's stuck is that he's publicly taken a political position he hasn't thought seriously about and doesn't understand the implications of just because it's the position people in his camp are expected to take.

If only there were someone in Jordan Peterson's world who was able to warn him about the dangers of groupthink and political tribalism.

Nintex

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First Avenatti, now this doofus.
https://twitter.com/aidnmclaughlin/status/1010308803525595141

Why is everyone in Trump's immediate vicinity (for or against) a nutcase?
🤴

benjipwns

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Tom Arnold was married to Roseanne Barr.

BOTH have starred on reality shows. Tom Arnold also had a prescription drug addiction.

He also converted to (((Judaism))) when he married Barr and has stayed such.

And he just started all this right after her show was reformatted as "The Connors" without her.

I mean, connect the dots people.

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And don't forget that chatter about how ResetERA staff were suspected of trafficking in immigrants that came out, not saying I believe it or endorse it or would condone anyone taking it seriously, just thought I should mention that some had accused ResetERA staff of potentially trafficking in immigrants what with the incredible Qanon revelations Nintex posted which had rumors of immigrant trafficking much like ResetERA staff were suddenly accused of.
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