US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP

[james]

Bitch cost me a fucking luxury vacation and people expect me to get over it wtf You had one fucking job Hillary. One fucking job. It was free money they said. No risk they said.

[shosta]

You can bet on specific results (ie by state) or even things like "who will be leading after the 2nd debate"

oh, shit, thanks for telling me about this one
https://www.predictit.org/markets/detail/5616/Will-Biden's-polling-support-increase-after-1st-debate

[Mandark]

Bernie hasn't mentioned Warren once.

[james]

Trump being the GOP nominee is at 86 cents?


Thats.....thats free money

[Mandark]

Trump being the GOP nominee is at 86 cents?


Thats.....thats free money

We're all going to thank james when he bankrupts himself betting on this and jinxes Trump into suffering a massive stroke.

[agrajag]

Bernie hasn't mentioned Warren once.

he has mentioned the corrupt DNC rigging it against him once more, but I haven't seen him attack Warren specifically. And you best believe he will come at Biden with the heat in the first debate.

[Joe Molotov]

NGL Joe's strat of appealing to nostalgia, opening his cheeks wide for the donor class in speeches, and flat out saying he will change nothing seems like an alright gameplan. wouldn't count out him out this early.

He's the "okay, we all had our fun, now let's get back to business as usual" pick.

[james]

Godamnit shosta what have you done I cant afford to do this again not again


but its free money

[shosta]

Bernie hasn't mentioned Warren once.

Has Bernie even attacked anyone at all? This is a very polite campaign. Democrats always seem to treat each other with more respect than the Republicans do. Which is why their debates are better.

Anyway, now that we're talking about Bernie's relationship with Warren, I think both of them staying in the race is a pretty good strategy for them both. Warren makes better in-roads with party loyalists and Bernie can try to reclaim whatever white guy and "independent" vote he lost to Biden. If the convention is brokered then those delegates are far more willing to work with each other than with other candidates. I'm sure Bernie is specifically counting on this to happen.

[Nintex]

Trump might pull a Putin and run 'independent'.

Be careful james

[shosta]

Trump being the GOP nominee is at 86 cents?


Thats.....thats free money

eFfIcIeNt MaRkEtS

[Mandark]

he has mentioned the corrupt DNC rigging it against him once more, but I haven't seen him attack Warren specifically. And you best believe he will come at Biden with the heat in the first debate.

we started this whole conversation cause he linked an article that's specifically about third way types talking themselves into warren

c'mon man

[Mandark]

eFfIcIeNt MaRkEtS

Even better, look at ya boy Yang.

[james]

If I put $500 on predictit I can probably have $2,000 by the end of the year which will pay for an Alaska cruise

[agrajag]

he has mentioned the corrupt DNC rigging it against him once more, but I haven't seen him attack Warren specifically. And you best believe he will come at Biden with the heat in the first debate.

we started this whole conversation cause he linked an article that's specifically about third way types talking themselves into warren

c'mon man

which is why I said he talked about those corrupt biatches rigging it for another candidate (in this case her), and I detect no lies. But he hasn't attacked her on the merits of her policies, did not say she is in bed with corporations or big money donors. He has not attacked her directly, is what I mean. On top of that you seem to be faulting Bernie for not bending his knee to tha Kween once more. Fuck that noise, he has a presidency to win.

Lastly, I asked you what you want ME to do, since you cautioned against feeling safe about Biden torpedoing his own campaign. I responded by saying there isn't much I could do, and then you brought up Sanders. We are all just spitballing here and nothing posted on this forum is of consequence.

[shosta]

Even better, look at ya boy Yang.

I'm done with him 

[Mandark]

which is why I said he talked about those corrupt biatches rigging it for another candidate (in this case her), and I detect no lies. But he hasn't attacked her on the merits of her policies, did not say she is in bed with corporations or big money donors. He has not attacked her directly, is what I mean. On top of that you seem to be faulting Bernie for not bending his knee to tha Kween once more. Fuck thqt noise, he has a presidency to win.

lol

[agrajag]

Coward Mandark.

[james]

Buy No   Will Brett Kavanaugh be the next confirmed Supreme Court justice?




I forgot about that bet

[james]

Buy Yes   Which party will win Florida in the 2016 presidential election?   Democratic

[shosta]

Do you remember the Oregon democratic primaries? Pepperidge farm remembers.

[agrajag]

https://twitter.com/EmmaVigeland/status/1141401423395131392

[Mandark]

Yeah. It's a radical appeal to normalcy. Would probably work better if he threw a couple rhetorical bones left like Kamala has and focused on Trump's disruption of said norms.

In a good economy where people are just sort of exhausted by the daily bullshit, seems like there's a real audience for this.

[Mandark]

Honestly the sweet spot for an American politician is "I'll make life 20-30% better in a way that does not disrupt your life."

A lot of M4A advocates are going to go all surprisedpikachu.jpg when they realize just how averse people are to giving up their shitty private insurance.

[agrajag]

Honestly the sweet spot for an American politician is "I'll make life 20-30% better in a way that does not disrupt your life."

A lot of M4A advocates are going to go all surprisedpikachu.jpg when they realize just how averse people are to giving up their shitty private insurance.

That's because something like 70% of people think they will still have deductibles under M4A, I saw a poll recently but can't find it atm

[Cauliflower Of Love]

Trump being the GOP nominee is at 86 cents?


Thats.....thats free money

pence gonna snatch wigs at the RNC.

[Nintex]

https://twitter.com/spacehashes/status/1141412781918314498

 

[Tripon]

Wrong thread.

[Mandark]

That's because something like 70% of people think they will still have deductibles under M4A, I saw a poll recently but can't find it atm

Most Dem voters think M4A means a public option rather than wholesale replacement of private insurance.

[agrajag]

there is no reason to want change if you are doing pretty well for himself

[Tasty]

wait tasty meat is rex?

New phone who dis

[Mandark]

The main lesson I take from health care politics in my lifetime is that the American public is very, very risk averse as a whole and this is much more important than any sort of ideology in predicting how they'll react to something.

The Dems got crushed after passing the ACA and the GOP got crushed after trying to repeal it, because in the first case it was an intangible promise and in the second it was the established status quo. Even the rebranding of single payer as Medicare For All is a tacit concession to this.

[agrajag]

I have a personal stake in ACA, because I got hit with a 40k hospital bill preexisting condition type deal circa 2005ish, so at least that one aspect of what Obama did is near and dear to my heart.

[shosta]

If things generally don't get much better in the next ten years I will probably be in favor of a california or Pacific coast secessionist movement.

[agrajag]

FBI, I am distancing myself from Shosta, Esch, and Kara just so you know.

[shosta]

Please don't be alarmed. There is a lot of elasticity around the solid core of the ideology.

[agrajag]

legit Bore socialists, how do you feel about Bernie coopting the Democratic Socialist moniker? Even I know he's not nearly to the left enough and have wondered if leaning so much on the word socialism is a great political calculation. Like, is he actually trying to win or just normalize the word?

[Mandark]

GOP: "Every incremental reform is actually socialism, which is terrible!"

Sanders: "Every incremental reform is actually socialism, which is good!"

[Nintex]

I think most people don't want to gamble with the economy too much. Things aren't perfect but employment numbers etc. are improving after the depression.
Despite his bluster Trump is still pretty much fixated on the stock market performance. Someone like Warren or Bernie might be willing to sacrifice economic growth to achieve other goals.

I'm seeing the same thing happening in most countries that have improving economies. In my country enough people are backing the ruling party for them to stay in power because despite some shady stuff and bad policies they don't want to rock the boat too much.
With ISIS out of the picture and if nothing big happens globally it'll come down to the economy and healthcare.

[shosta]

did someone say gambling?! 

[curly]

If things generally don't get much better in the next ten years I will probably be in favor of a california or Pacific coast secessionist movement.

I fully recognize this is a dumbass idea but I still want it

[curly]

legit Bore socialists, how do you feel about Bernie coopting the Democratic Socialist moniker? Even I know he's not nearly to the left enough and have wondered if leaning so much on the word socialism is a great political calculation. Like, is he actually trying to win or just normalize the word?

It does seem like a strategy to normalize the concept but I don't think confusing Americans even more about what socialism entails is that helpful. Still not like anything else has worked so good luck to him on that? 

[team filler]

 

[agrajag]

anecdotal, but living in S FL, I know a ton of first and second generation Latin Americans, even those who might otherwise be inclined to vote against Trump. for whom the S word is a total bogeyman and a deal breaker. There is a whole lot of Ana Navarro types in those communities.

It's just strange to me, he could have described himself as a Social Democrat, which is a more accurate term for his platform and sounds a lot less threatening.

[Kara]

Trying to decide what primary guy I'm going to be

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Biden
Pro - get some sick pragmatist cred to offset my vote for Gloria La Riva in the actual election, could possibly win and then we'd have a president friendly to peaceful development of socialism in China again
Con - could possibly lose, we'd get some real scumbag in his Senate seat, is already a scumbag himself on top of that, nontrivial chance of being a pedophile

Buttigieg
Pro - I'd like to see America's fourth Arab president*, get some sick ideological correct credit to offset my vote for Gloria La Riva in the actual election, I probably read his dad's translation of Gramsci, sympathetic to people looking to move out of Indiana
Con - anti-anti-imperialist troop, would get annihilated by Trump in every debate and lose spectacularly

Gabbard
Pro - anti-imperialist troop, won't fall victim to the Assad Curse #Lion, history with Hindutva could prove instrumental in forging durable alliances with India under Modi
Con - can she really pull off the "I swear I didn't hate LGBT people" face turn?, would probably make the FDA investigate GMO instead of doing anything useful while Mitch prevents anything from passing the Senate

Gillibrand
Pro - terminal "white person who read Sun Tzu" energy, UCLA alumna, political opportunist that could theoretically be convinced that yes we have to do something about climate change but in the meantime you could just do dank bad dragon show memes with her for the normies, powerful Borgia vibes with her family background
Con - I guess protracted people's war is more difficult with someone who got an F from the NRA? forums poster james would like me less? she sounds OK on foreign policy for now but will she stay that way after a couple of Raytheon fundraisers? "doing X to own the libs" vibe by backing a member of She Who Shall Not Be Named's coterie who was also an explicit Blue Dog (the true Green Shinobi dual threat)

Sanders
Pro - I guess he could theoretically win? would do some nice speeches while not actually accomplishing anything as president. I might vote for him in the actual election.
Con - taking a side in the grim darkness of the far center where there is only flame war. encouraging the legions of teens who read that democratic socialism is a real thing on Wikipedia. social democracy is the left wing of fascism.

Warren
Pro - might prosecute a sliver of the actual crimes committed by the business sector. increase my Social Link with Andy-kun ahead of the next Bore Con. powerful Progressive Era vibes and I am nothing if not a sucker for ideologies consigned to history that have no base of support today. I might vote for her in the actual election.
Con - terminal "I did the extra credit" vibes. terminal "the only thing the bed in my brand new Chevy Silverado hauls is the food I buy at Costco" vibes.

Williamson
Pro - the only way to beat an old person who's hot af like Trump is to run your own old person who's hot af, Pomona College represent, everyone would think I liked her because I was a Grey Wolf instead of horny, seems like she'd go on any TV program
Con - is America ready for a new era of good feeling? I don't think so. can't even win a House election and doesn't have the Gillibrand Borgia background to compensate for that.

*the previous 3 were: Teddy Roosevelt, Franklin D. Roosevelt, and Dwight Eisenhower

[close]

[Cauliflower Of Love]

https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/blacks-for-trump-founder-michael-the-black-man-returns-for-trumps-orlando-2020-rally-11199599

Miami's "Blacks for Trump" Guy Returns for Trump's 2020 Campaign Kickoff in Orlando

He turns up all over the country, including at the Arizona border with disgraced, racist Sheriff Joe Arpaio in 2018. Symonette also bizarrely appeared at a Miami campaign rally that was, according to Special Counsel Robert Mueller's office, funded by Russian agents.

But there's an even more bizarre piece to the story: Symonette in May 2018 filed for bankruptcy and claimed he was flat broke. He was later banned from bankruptcy court for five years after a judge claimed he was abusing the system in order to skirt creditors who said Symonette owed them money. The filings raise major questions about who might be funding Symonette's constant trips to Trump rallies.

[curly]

anecdotal, but living in S FL, I know a ton of first and second generation Latin Americans, even those who might otherwise be inclined to vote against Trump. for whom the S word is a total bogeyman and a deal breaker. There is a whole lot of Ana Navarro types in those communities.

It's just strange to me, he could have described himself as a Social Democrat, which is a more accurate term for his platform and sounds a lot less threatening.

I can think of two reasons. The first is pragmatic: he wants to monopolize the support of the radical wing of the party, and radical activists especially. They don't make up a large percentage of primary voters but they're the people who are going to work for and volunteer on his campaign. A ton of members of DSA, Justice Democrats, etc are going to be involved in some fashion. If he's just a Social Democrat, how motivated are those people going to be to turn out for him? How is he going to differentiate himself from Warren, who has a lot of the same positions on policy?

Secondly I do think he is more radical than he is allowed to appear in the context of American politics. He's not a secret Bolshevik or anarchist and I doubt he has a coherent vision of where he wants to go (he doesn't come off as much of a theory guy), but he does feel a loyalty to the concept of socialism and wants to further it.

[Kara]

Wrath, Buttigieg is أبو الدجاج.

I feel like I should know what this is referencing but I chuckled anyway so thank you.

I heard Pete Buttigieg is Maltese so I looked up his surname to see if it was Arabic (Maltese) and it was even better than I imagined.

holy shit, so literally Bu-dijaj but badly translated or they went with egyptoan pronunciation.

BTW Bu makes it essentially "chicken owner" or "chicken guy" instead of "chicken daddy" () but hey man, close enough.

Wikipedia says he's chicken daddy and I'm sticking with it.

[Mandark]

Trying to decide what primary guy I'm going to be

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Biden
Pro - get some sick pragmatist cred to offset my vote for Gloria La Riva in the actual election, could possibly win and then we'd have a president friendly to peaceful development of socialism in China again
Con - could possibly lose, we'd get some real scumbag in his Senate seat, is already a scumbag himself on top of that, nontrivial chance of being a pedophile

Buttigieg
Pro - I'd like to see America's fourth Arab president*, get some sick ideological correct credit to offset my vote for Gloria La Riva in the actual election, I probably read his dad's translation of Gramsci, sympathetic to people looking to move out of Indiana
Con - anti-anti-imperialist troop, would get annihilated by Trump in every debate and lose spectacularly

Gabbard
Pro - anti-imperialist troop, won't fall victim to the Assad Curse #Lion, history with Hindutva could prove instrumental in forging durable alliances with India under Modi
Con - can she really pull off the "I swear I didn't hate LGBT people" face turn?, would probably make the FDA investigate GMO instead of doing anything useful while Mitch prevents anything from passing the Senate

Gillibrand
Pro - terminal "white person who read Sun Tzu" energy, UCLA alumna, political opportunist that could theoretically be convinced that yes we have to do something about climate change but in the meantime you could just do dank bad dragon show memes with her for the normies, powerful Borgia vibes with her family background
Con - I guess protracted people's war is more difficult with someone who got an F from the NRA? forums poster james would like me less? she sounds OK on foreign policy for now but will she stay that way after a couple of Raytheon fundraisers? "doing X to own the libs" vibe by backing a member of She Who Shall Not Be Named's coterie who was also an explicit Blue Dog (the true Green Shinobi dual threat)

Sanders
Pro - I guess he could theoretically win? would do some nice speeches while not actually accomplishing anything as president. I might vote for him in the actual election.
Con - taking a side in the grim darkness of the far center where there is only flame war. encouraging the legions of teens who read that democratic socialism is a real thing on Wikipedia. social democracy is the left wing of fascism.

Warren
Pro - might prosecute a sliver of the actual crimes committed by the business sector. increase my Social Link with Andy-kun ahead of the next Bore Con. powerful Progressive Era vibes and I am nothing if not a sucker for ideologies consigned to history that have no base of support today. I might vote for her in the actual election.
Con - terminal "I did the extra credit" vibes. terminal "the only thing the bed in my brand new Chevy Silverado hauls is the food I buy at Costco" vibes.

Williamson
Pro - the only way to beat an old person who's hot af like Trump is to run your own old person who's hot af, Pomona College represent, everyone would think I liked her because I was a Grey Wolf instead of horny, seems like she'd go on any TV program
Con - is America ready for a new era of good feeling? I don't think so. can't even win a House election and doesn't have the Gillibrand Borgia background to compensate for that.

*the previous 3 were: Teddy Roosevelt, Franklin D. Roosevelt, and Dwight Eisenhower

[close]

dammit kara biden hasn't been a senator for a decade you're just repurposing your sherrod brown material aren't you?

[Kara]

Was going to ask you if Gloria La Riva was a strict marcyite and then saw she wrote an entire book on china

You're only ever going to interact with low level members of PSL and WWP and they skew heavily towards vanilla post-Soviet ML but leadership in those parties is still Marcyite af and very invested in keeping the schism going for reasons none of us will ever know.

[Mandark]

don't worry guys, the anti-war right wing is here

[Tasty]

Warren
Pro - increase my Social Link with Andy-kun ahead of the next Bore Con.

You know what you must do

[Kara]

Trying to decide what primary guy I'm going to be

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Biden
Pro - get some sick pragmatist cred to offset my vote for Gloria La Riva in the actual election, could possibly win and then we'd have a president friendly to peaceful development of socialism in China again
Con - could possibly lose, we'd get some real scumbag in his Senate seat, is already a scumbag himself on top of that, nontrivial chance of being a pedophile

Buttigieg
Pro - I'd like to see America's fourth Arab president*, get some sick ideological correct credit to offset my vote for Gloria La Riva in the actual election, I probably read his dad's translation of Gramsci, sympathetic to people looking to move out of Indiana
Con - anti-anti-imperialist troop, would get annihilated by Trump in every debate and lose spectacularly

Gabbard
Pro - anti-imperialist troop, won't fall victim to the Assad Curse #Lion, history with Hindutva could prove instrumental in forging durable alliances with India under Modi
Con - can she really pull off the "I swear I didn't hate LGBT people" face turn?, would probably make the FDA investigate GMO instead of doing anything useful while Mitch prevents anything from passing the Senate

Gillibrand
Pro - terminal "white person who read Sun Tzu" energy, UCLA alumna, political opportunist that could theoretically be convinced that yes we have to do something about climate change but in the meantime you could just do dank bad dragon show memes with her for the normies, powerful Borgia vibes with her family background
Con - I guess protracted people's war is more difficult with someone who got an F from the NRA? forums poster james would like me less? she sounds OK on foreign policy for now but will she stay that way after a couple of Raytheon fundraisers? "doing X to own the libs" vibe by backing a member of She Who Shall Not Be Named's coterie who was also an explicit Blue Dog (the true Green Shinobi dual threat)

Sanders
Pro - I guess he could theoretically win? would do some nice speeches while not actually accomplishing anything as president. I might vote for him in the actual election.
Con - taking a side in the grim darkness of the far center where there is only flame war. encouraging the legions of teens who read that democratic socialism is a real thing on Wikipedia. social democracy is the left wing of fascism.

Warren
Pro - might prosecute a sliver of the actual crimes committed by the business sector. increase my Social Link with Andy-kun ahead of the next Bore Con. powerful Progressive Era vibes and I am nothing if not a sucker for ideologies consigned to history that have no base of support today. I might vote for her in the actual election.
Con - terminal "I did the extra credit" vibes. terminal "the only thing the bed in my brand new Chevy Silverado hauls is the food I buy at Costco" vibes.

Williamson
Pro - the only way to beat an old person who's hot af like Trump is to run your own old person who's hot af, Pomona College represent, everyone would think I liked her because I was a Grey Wolf instead of horny, seems like she'd go on any TV program
Con - is America ready for a new era of good feeling? I don't think so. can't even win a House election and doesn't have the Gillibrand Borgia background to compensate for that.

*the previous 3 were: Teddy Roosevelt, Franklin D. Roosevelt, and Dwight Eisenhower

[close]

dammit kara biden hasn't been a senator for a decade you're just repurposing your sherrod brown material aren't you?

I figured it would best reflect the effort Joe is putting into his campaign as well as the low information voter nature of his base of support.

[curly]

While we're on the subject

https://twitter.com/getfiscal/status/1023186616452608000?lang=en

[team filler]

[Cauliflower Of Love]

I'm starting to think AOC is a sleeper agent.

[agrajag]

guilty. as. charged.

 

[Mandark]

https://twitter.com/RebeccaBuck/status/1141496725456195585


hoooooooooooo boy

[Cauliflower Of Love]

Has Bernie even attacked anyone at all?

I scrolled past this earlier but hellllllllllllllllll fuckin yeah he does , he regularly throws subliminals at his political opponents saying they're in the pockets of the bouj. I mean they are and he's right but an attack on credibility is still an attack. I think this is one of the reasons 'Hillary Clinton revanchists' and neocons like TA accuse his fanbase of purity testing, because they emulate this behavior as well.

I will say he is mostly polite and passive aggressive about it. A civil payola card caller.

That's not really attacking people though. Saying your stances are stupid isn't the same as calling the person stupid.

--

also, what the hell @ biden above.

[Kara]

Wait just a doggone minute. The Roosevalts and Eisenhower have arab genes in em?

Teddy: Joined a cavalry regiment and turned it into a club of rich New England failsons, basically joining the Royal Saudi Air Force of his day. Thought starting wars was cool adventure for him and the squad, too. Thought he could put lipstick on the pig that was the U.S. economy of his day a la MBS and his app economy nonsense.

Frankie: Hosni Mubarak probably would have thought this guy won too many elections. Nasser for ghuraba'. Helped Saudi get to where it is today.

Dwight Schrute: Decolonization icon with his intervention in the Suez Crisis. Like any good Arab leader he made sure he invaded Lebanon at least once.