Wank Dad 2: Electric Wankaloo

[shosta]

Sargon!

[agrajag]

come on breh, Sargon ain't no "skeptic"

[Nintex]

LMAO this guy

https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1121440688263053313

[agrajag]

"I hate identity politics"

"White people are supposed to act like this"

 

[shosta]

Oh. Science -> "Science" -> Scientific Racism -> Anti-Immigration. That actually explains the link for me, thanks.

[Himu]

One thing I never understood was how the "skeptic community" became a part of the new right. I don't understand the link.

Usually islam.

"We should not tolerate religion" -> "Islam is a threat to us and breeds intolerance" -> "Island is a threat to western values" -> "Christianity isn't that bad after all and is a part of our western values unlike Islam" -> "hey mom, I'm alt right"

One thing I never understood was how the "skeptic community" became a part of the new right. I don't understand the link.

You've never met a "race realist" quoting bell curves and black crime stats in your life? I envy you for it.

That's low-key Sam Harris entire grift.

There's that too.

"Blacks have a low IQ" -> "Blacks represent a sizable portion of crime statistics" -> "I support black people having access to abortion as it will make them less poor over all" (usually a cover for eugenics support)

[Joe Molotov]

Sometimes it's hard to tell if someone is alt-right or just dumb.

[agrajag]

I think it's also a matter a matter of looking at things in a binary way without allowing for much nuance and a mixture of views. Like Nintex can be considered alt-right here, a Nazi on Re, but a a bleeding heart college intellectual on Voat. People do exist in gray areas, guys.

[BisMarckie]

I think it's also a matter a matter of looking at things in a binary way without allowing for much nuance and a mixture of views. Like Nintex can be considered alt-right here, a Nazi on Re, but a a bleeding heart college intellectual on Voat. People do exist in gray areas, guys.

Nintex isn‘t alt-right or whatever at all. He just thinks Trump is hilarious, which he kinda is. He also enjoys writing shitty fanfiction and being a low quality troll.

[BisMarckie]

I never understood the skeptic community‘s raison d‘etre. It always struck me as something inherently American, since you couldn‘t score edgelord points here for atheism since Feuerbach.

[BisMarckie]

The Anglosphere.

[agrajag]

I never understood the skeptic community‘s raison d‘etre. It always struck me as something inherently American, since you couldn‘t score edgelord points here for atheism since Feuerbach.

breh you think that's bad? I've been bombarded with Youtube recommendations of rational skeptics debunking "flat earth theories" lately.

 

[BisMarckie]

I think flat earthers are cute.

Like nobody ever believed that the Earth was flat, but they adopted this popular culture myth. 

[shosta]

If the earth was flat how would water flow down the sides?

[BisMarckie]

If the Earth was flat, how come there are still monkeys?

[jakefromstatefarm]

If we’re keeping score at home, and I’m pretty sure this has been mentioned before, the New Atheists like Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris, et al. were/are an important predecessor for the IDW both because their demos/content have significant overlap and because the former paved a lot of the infrastructure that the latter then capitalized on. I think Cardgage is mostly right here. They sold hard on a secular bourgeois liberalism that was latently gaining momentum in America for years while religious language still, ostensibly, held hegemony in public/political discourse. Then, and this is really within the past 10 years or so, the demos start to shift in their favor, esp. among the under-30 crowd, and, exactly because they’ve won, they start to promote more obviously reactionary horseshit because they’ve built their brand around being ultratransgressive.*

Part of the Quillette** crowd are those Charles Murray HBD types who think we can read racial essentialism directly off of the natural world; the upshot always being a vindication of purse-clutching caucasoid common sense. And those guys should probably be contrasted with the deus vult guys or the Petersons of the world who think they’ve found ancient scrawlings in dingo poop that justify women being housewives, or whatever.

One interesting way I think you can divy it up is by (perceived) intellectual lineage. They both see The West^TM as sacrosanct/under crisis/whatever, but the scientism crowd thinks the parts of The West^TM that are worth preserving only extend to about John Locke, or so. Where the other crowd really buys into the Judaeo-Christian civilization myth and thinks that the battle of Tours and the sieges of Vienna are singularly defining world-historical events. You see a lot of people in either camp claiming to be ‘classically liberal’ despite not evincing any of the radical spirit that animated 19th century British utilitarianism. Because they haven’t read Bentham or Mill or Sidgwick. Or really anyone else, for that matter.

*although the imperial apologia is always there, cf. hitchens supporting the war in Iraq

**who are now publishing content by legit marxists? Wtf? I just saw this yesterday, they’ve been shifting over the past couple weeks or so; can’t tell if their cynically diversifying their bonds or what

[BisMarckie]

Never underestimate the Gopnik‘s squatting ability!

[BisMarckie]

Tfw your dumb shitpost follows a genuinely insightful post.

[jakefromstatefarm]

...the scientism crowd thinks the parts of The West^TM that are worth preserving only extend to about John Locke, or so. Where the other crowd really buys into the Judaeo-Christian civilization myth...

so, e.g., Pinker and Dawkins, while not being alt-right and not clearly even normal-right, dovetail really nicely with the first group, but have no common stock with the second.

Also a lot (although i couldn't tell you who) of people just have incoherent worldviews / ideology. I have a friend who is as radlib + idpol centric as it gets but loves Sam Harris and keeps a library's worth of anti-muslim factoids in her brain.

dont know your friend, obv, but I’m willing to bet this is because that Harrisite secular liberal shtick itself is high-key idpol

[Himu]

This is why I pointed out Islam. The new atheists were very, very big proponents on the war on terror. And a lot of the altright fall into the new atheist demographic.

[Great Rumbler]

For some reason I thought Sargon was black...

[BisMarckie]

For some reason I thought Sargon was black...

You‘re thinking of famous youtuber videogamedunkey.

[agrajag]

you're thinking of

 

[jakefromstatefarm]

I'm listening go on

So full disclosure, I’m on record saying that I don’t think a politics that doesn’t mobilize ‘identity’ is really possible given i) what the modern self is and ii) what modern politics are/have always been. So there’s a strong, tendentious claim I’d make that any stance claiming neutrality wrt idpol -like in the case of the detached objective outside observer that utilitarians are so fond of- is just gonna recapitulate the received common sense of a certain milieu. Anti-idpol is the idpol of hegemony, or something like this. In Harris’ case, it’s secular, liberal, white, wealthy, cosmopolitan reason repackaged as what everyone would arrive at if they were being sufficiently rational.

But there’s a weaker claim without all the tendentious horseshit. He’s openly considered bomb-striking third world brown people for their thought-crimes. There’s also his Californiafied yoga as health and wellness shit that fits snugly with (wait for it) neoliberal technologies of self-improvement.

[toku]

[Oblivion]

https://twitter.com/classiclib3ral/status/1121351751020445697



Rubin continues to be a fucking loser

[agrajag]

Can't knock his hustle. The man managed to combine his verbal humiliation kink with making big conservative bucks.

[Oblivion]

What's great about the above clip is that it was the second attempt Rubin tried to get Ben to accept his existence.

[shosta]

I had a gay conservative for a roommate once. I talked to him at length about it, which was kind of rude in retrospect, but he was definitely cognizant that "his side" didn't always have his back and that the tradeoff was hard at times. Luckily, he was white!

[Oblivion]

Rubin is apparently even dumber than your friend though. Rubin legitimately thinks the cons he hangs out with actually like him as "one of the good ones", as opposed to just simply taking advantage of him as a useful idiot/co-conspirator.

[Crash Dummy]

I had a gay conservative for a roommate once. I talked to him at length about it, which was kind of rude in retrospect, but he was definitely cognizant that "his side" didn't always have his back and that the tradeoff was hard at times. Luckily, he was white!

the unbearable whiteness of being  :'(

[VomKriege]

I don't have my pulse on skeptic circles but I have some passing familiarity with it on the Internet and I'm not sure there's really any special commonality with the Far (Alt / New / Etc) Right. You'll find skeptics in all flavours and I'd say your vanilla skeptic is probably not going to respond well to any form of conspiracy theories, Holocaust negationism or the tired tropes of racial pseudo-science just by virtue of being a skeptic.  Some skeptics went "woke" (to sum up things quickly) probably a lot earlier than the bunch we're discussing, right around the time of "ElevatorGate" in 2011 (a controversy where a female skeptic went very vocal about unwanted advances in an elevator while she was at a Con), off the top of my head I could name PZ Myers and Atheism+. There's long been debates on the sort of "old school militant atheism", its obsolescence and possible perversions (esp. wrt to Islam).

I think self designated skeptics feature prominently right now with the "Alt Right" because that movement (insofar as it "exists" as an entity), fancies itself as revolutionary, speaking truth to power and are trying to get accepted as legitimate and rational. And in a Western world where everything seems to be more and more framed into a binary of "Responsible Adults" Vs "The Populists", any intellectual discourse challenging the statu quo can rapidly spin you into the latter, whatever the intent.

I guess the TLDR is "Do political correctness exist, is its enforcement more strict and is it counterproductive."

[benjipwns]

I still think this is more humiliating for him. I feel awful just watching it.



https://twitter.com/hanton_jeff/status/1118549529047887872

this clip makes it sound like Dave Rubin actually tried to spring a "gay-ish" orgy on Ben Shaprio in the past

this is now canon

[benjipwns]

I saw this in comments under stuff about the Zizek debate elsewhere and hadn't even thought about it until now...but it's something I recognized as picking at me when I've engaged with Peterson as a concept in this thread for a while.

Peterson didn't just blow off reading Marx, he doesn't seem to have even bothered to get into any critiques of Marx specifically. He seems to more have read a critique of "socialism" generally and extrapolated from there after hearing about "cultural marxism" from somewhere. I can't say that I get the impression he's really ever said "I should find out what everyone before me has said Marx got wrong." In other words, he skipped the Lit Review. (And methods. Unless "do not bother children when they are skateboarding" and "do not let your children do anything that makes you dislike them" is a unique form of methodology I am unfamiliar with.)

I get YouTubers and Sean Hannity thinking they're the first to ever really break apart Marxism, socialism and their related ideas, but dude's a tenured PhD. Now I really want someone to figure out how to present a description of Peterson's whole "crusade" to himself asking his take as a clinical psychologist.

[benjipwns]

[HardcoreRetro]

I think he's read Gulag Archipelago and The Black Book of Communism.

I think he put Gulag Archipelago and The Road to Wigan Pier as his must read books on his blog/website.

Edit: https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/books/book-list/?id=1045002

[jakefromstatefarm]

There’s that Stephen Hicks book too

[agrajag]

aww so cute, can we adopt it?

[BisMarckie]

aww so cute, can we adopt it?

We already have Kara.

Wait a minute, has anyone seen Kara and Zizek in the same place?

[Rufus]

Kara is an outside cat. He only comes in to eat and get his boo-boos treated.

[Himu]

https://www.theringer.com/2019/4/19/18485861/wrongthink-ben-shapiro-quillette-joe-rogan-intellectual-dark-web

[curly]

This interview is amazing:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/bret-easton-ellis-thinks-youre-overreacting-to-donald-trump

[Himu]

I'm actually interested in this interview:

https://www.wordonfire.org/peterson/

[Rufus]

You came to the defense of Roseanne Barr, saying that she denied, after tweeting racist stuff about Valerie Jarrett, knowing Valerie Jarrett was black.

Did she say that? That she didn’t know she was black?

You say it in the book.

Yeah, right, I quoted her.

wat

"I'm not that political" :wankmoji

[curly]

How do you write an entire book on a subject you don't care about and apparently haven't thought about at all?

You are a novelist. You write about the human condition. Do you worry about the self-harm of people who see things like child separation and have no emotional response?

I think I am an absurdist. I think politics are ridiculous.

Maybe don’t write a book about it. Would that be the solution?

I think the problem is that I don’t necessarily see this as interesting as fiction.

Yeah, I could tell.

It was much more interesting to me to write this as a nonfiction book, in terms of pulling this stuff from my podcast.

Thanks so much for talking.

It’s interesting to have that back-and-forth pull in an interview. The only problem, however, is that I am not that political, and so, when we have this conversation, and you confront me with certain things like this, I really am, I have to say, at a loss.

 

[Himu]

How do you write an entire book on a subject you don't care about and apparently haven't thought about at all?

Quick $$$

Bill O'Reilly has a ton of books.

[Rufus]

I get the impression he doesn't care so long as it doesn't affect him directly. It's his boyfriend (and everyone like him) being upset that bothers him. 'Calm down and wait for the election' makes sense from that perspective.

[shosta]

this clip makes it sound like Dave Rubin actually tried to spring a "gay-ish" orgy on Ben Shaprio in the past

"I'll just watch"

[benjipwns]

How do you write an entire book on a subject you don't care about and apparently haven't thought about at all?

Was that wrong? Should I have not done that? I tell you, I gotta plead ignorance on this thing because if anyone had said anything to me at all when I first started here that that sort of thing was frowned upon, you know, ‘cause I've worked in a lot of offices and I tell you people do that all the time.

[Oblivion]

This interview is amazing:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/bret-easton-ellis-thinks-youre-overreacting-to-donald-trump

That interviewer rocks. I love how he doesn't even bother hiding his contempt for BEE.

It's really amazing how accurate the "I'm not really into politics = I'm secretly either solidly or comfortably conservative" meme is. I don't think I've met anyone who says they don't really care about politics who was secretly  really liberal.

[El Babua]

I say it to hide my Juche/Third Worldist power level

[curly]

If you want more debate pwnage and have an hour and a half to spare, here's a post-modern neomarxist DESTROYING a Jacobin universalist nitwit with Marx and Hegel

[Leadbelly]

I still think this is more humiliating for him. I feel awful just watching it.



https://twitter.com/hanton_jeff/status/1118549529047887872

I don't know... In the moment, or?

What followed on in that live stream is definitely worse than anything Ben Shapiro thinks about it. Ben Shapiro at least is quite happy to associate with gay people he just believes marriage should be for a man and woman. The other guy seemed really unhappy with even sitting in the same room as him.

[Mandark]

Shapiro's toned it down in public because his level of homophobia is out of style even on the American right wing now.

[Leadbelly]

He was on Joe Rogan fairly recently. Joe Rogan questioned him about it quite a bit actually.

This is a clip of it:

[Oblivion]

After the Obergefell ruling, Ben was so apoplectic, he wrote a 15k word screed lamenting the death of marriage thanks to the (at the time) incredibly degenerate and blasphemous Supreme Court.

Some time afterwards, Ben's position on gay marriage "evolved" and suddenly transformed from bog standard hoity toity conservative to hip, young "libertarian". Ben 2.0 apparently came to the realization that he doesn't care about gay marriage after all. And by "doesn't care", I mean he still wants it to be illegal, but only if a state decides to make it that way.

[Brehvolution]

No one cares what ben thinks or says.

[Brehvolution]

No one cares what ben thinks or says.

Unfortunately this isn't really true, he has almost double the followers of JORP on social media who is the loose central subject of these threads. I would say he's the most popular IDWer maybe.

None of these people '''''''matter'''''''' aside from culture wars, but the wars must be fought :usa

Half the followers are bots and a good portion of the rest are people who just want to rage at him.

[Brehvolution]

No one cares what ben thinks or says.

Unfortunately this isn't really true, he has almost double the followers of JORP on social media who is the loose central subject of these threads. I would say he's the most popular IDWer maybe.

None of these people '''''''matter'''''''' aside from culture wars, but the wars must be fought :usa

Half the followers are bots and a good portion of the rest are people who just want to rage at him.

If a significant amount of people want to rage at him, he matters.

Ilhan Omar was retweeting stuff implying that he directly influenced the Canadian mass shooter.

That's his target audience.

[Rufus]

Lil Ben looks so angry all the time

Making up for his baby face.