Black Panther and embracing its message

[Cerveza mas fina]

Black panther made you post here again so it must be pretty dumb like all marvel movies

[TVC15]

Cindi, love you girl, so I won’t wade into this thread too much, but re: antifa as a talking point. I think the main reason it’s not a good one is that there are like exactly 3 places in the US that have appreciable antifa activity, but its critics would have you believe it’s an encroaching nationwide thread.

[Himu]

No. I am talking specifically about socialism. Liberals are edging closer to the beast, but I know socialism first hand and how dangerous it is and liberals aren't socialists.

"AntiFa(scits)" -> Socialism is a bit of a jump. "The left is edging toward Socialism" is valid, but that's because the majority of young voters think social programs is a good thing. Are there crazy socialists? Sure. But I think lumping them in with the AntiFa movement is a huge huge mental gymnastics/stretch that even you have to admit is wrong.

Antifa is socialist by definition.

I’m not saying that antifa is representative of all socialists either. It was just an example of socialism being awful.

In my experience, socialism crushes under the weight of it excesses. Naturally even. Caring about the common good? Fine. But socialism’s main problem is that its lack of respect for the individual. If libertarianism can be be too selfish in pursuit of personal liberty, socialism is too collective. Socialism naturally is about groups because rejecting the idea of personal property is embedded into the ideology. Therefore, socialists place the group, or collective, above all else. Caring about the bulk of society is fine but socialism doesn’t draw that line. Eventually the socialists demand that others fall in line with their ideology. We see it with every socialist movement, from the Bolsheviks forcing social democrats to reform or suffer to the arguments made in America today. This is why every socialist country (note: having social policy is not the same thing as being a socialist nation) is a walking human rights violation. Because the socialist government has decreed what is ok and what isn’t (the collective) and if you go outside of that you must suffer. 

We see this even at the most basic elements of socialism.

Socialism is dangerous.

[Himu]

She alreads said she's stereotyping based on personal anecdotes, so...

Yes, which is why:

Cindy when did you become so political? Or have you always been and I just never noticed cause I'm not? I mean all I remember when I think of you is talking about star trek. weird funny shit, anime and tv shows, then you're gone for months and people tell me you had some fight on some corner of this board I never go to, rinse repeat.

There are four main events:

1. 2008 financial crisis (socialism)
2. Ferguson and BLM (seething anger at white people and america)
3. Pulse (acknowledging that vulnerable populations should have firearms for self defense)
4. The election of Donald Trump (realizing that calling all white people racist makes you what you hate)

combined with complete and utter disillusionment with the democratic party.

I told her this turning the run up. I told her "while I can understand black's resentment toward whites, blaming all whites for black problems now-a-days is kinda dumb" she didn't want to listen until after Trump got elected and "hey, calling all whites that may agree with you on some points but not all racists (#OhSupTIMU) just makes them tune out." Just shows that I need to tell her that her jump toward hating socialists instead of Whites now is just as bad needs to be told.

Like, I agree with her on some aspects that she throws out, but at the same time these jumps into "so this proves why I should hate <subject/target> 100%" is just "No, honey. #NotAll<Subject/Target>"

I mean to put it another way: She agreed with Bernie (IIRC) on certain aspects of politics, like I do. But now that she's turned around on socialism, I wonder if she still agrees with him in certain aspects or has 180'd on her opinion of him/his points she agrees with because "fuck him, he didn't do anything for me" like the BLM movement time-line where she hated whites without understanding why she had that resentment came from.

I haven’t turned around on anything in that regard.

-College tuition rates are ridiculous and you shouldn’t have to go into debt to do something society tells you to do.
-Amazon potentially becoming the first trillion dollar company while its workers are on food stamps is beyond the pale.
-Being a trillion dollar company shouldn’t even be legal.
-A CEO that makes millions or billions a year while the workers make peanuts is a very real and big problem that needs fixing.
-Monopolies such as Google should be broken up. Go fully Teddy. Fuck them.
-Big Pharma being able to dictate prices of life saving medicine by inflating the price by 1000% should be illegal.
-The people responsible for the 2008 financial crisis should be in prison if illegal activity was involved.
-The working man and woman should be placed as more important than corporations.
Etc.

I’m still for the working class. I just simply do not find socialism to be the answer. Democrats don’t give a shit about the working class and are as corrupt as Republicans.

That said, I think a lot of our system works and has a far better track record than socialism.

Do I think every socialist is a group think wanker? No! I think there’s plenty with good hearts and they legitimatelybwant to do the right thing. But what about a Trojan horse or bad actors who manipulate those people with good intentions? Socialism is dangerous, has a bad track record, and run contrary to human nature.

My problem is more with the ism than it’s adherents. Most socialists have their hearts in the right place. It’s the ism that is cancerous and broken.

[kingv]

I can tell you with certainty that the Republican Party has no solutions to any of those problems.

The only solutions that have any prayer of working for most of those would be socialism by the broad definition we use in the US.

- what other solution for college tuition is there other than subsidizing the cost or government cost controls?
- same for pharma, pay gaps, or to a certain extent monopolies.

All of thes have policy solutions that would involve the government either paying money, putting on cost controls, or telling a business how to run its business. All of those things would be called socialism by the right.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Fucking hell himuro just leave again ffs as usual you have no clue what you are talking about

Did you read some pamphlet off the street that got you all hot and bothered

Im enjoying my free healthcare, university, schools etc thank u very much danish socialism

Sorry you werent raised by people that taught that sharing is caring

[Himu]

I agree King. The right are partially to blame for the modern rise of socialism in America by calling everything Obama did “socialist”. They de-mystified the word and yet today refuse to take any share of responsibility despite creating it. I helped socialism in my own way and I must pay the price by fighting the evil tooth and nail. I have low standards for the right. I have high standards for the left (and by that I mean democrats). For the right, we are talking about the same party that had demonstrations hanging the president of the united states by a rope signified purely by his race, and then a few years later point fingers and accuse democrats of being the sole cause of today’s division. I’m waiting for Democrats to get their shit together so I can go back home. I will gladly call myself liberal and democrat then but not today.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/06/opinion/democratic-socialism-alexandria-ocasio-cortez.html

Socialism is cancer.

[VomKriege]

 

etiolate falls, himuro rises

[Cerveza mas fina]

I think i get cancer whenever you post

Maybe one day you will get cancer and your alt right christian friends will ask u to pray it away cuz u are poor af

Meanwhile here in the cancerous socialist world you would get free treatment like a goddamn human being

[Momo]

etiolate falls, himuro rises

[Himu]

Jesus.

Alt right Christian friends. Alt right people have religion. you can’t even get that right. Please stop.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Thank you jesus himu will soon implode again and stop posting and take a walk in the park and come back as a nihilist cyborg

[Cerveza mas fina]

Jesus.

Alt right Christian friends. Alt right people have religion. you can’t even get that right. Please stop.

Himu you are a transgender "roman catholic"   

Thats not even possible

Its like black kkk members

You may think you are part of the club but...

[Himu]

See? Go against the socialist collective and this is how they act. Please assimilate. Beep boop.

[Nintex]

Cindy when did you become so political? Or have you always been and I just never noticed cause I'm not? I mean all I remember when I think of you is talking about star trek. weird funny shit, anime and tv shows, then you're gone for months and people tell me you had some fight on some corner of this board I never go to, rinse repeat.

There are four main events:

1. 2008 financial crisis (socialism)
2. Ferguson and BLM (seething anger at white people and america)
3. Pulse (acknowledging that vulnerable populations should have firearms for self defense)
4. The election of Donald Trump (realizing that calling all white people racist makes you what you hate)

combined with complete and utter disillusionment with the democratic party.

i forgot

5. Guilt due to saying and doing bad things towards white people lead me to Christianity.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Wait the financial crisis was because of socialism?

Plz tell me more

[Nola]

Yeah I'm gonna need to hear an answer to that one too.

[Nola]

See? Go against the socialist collective and this is how they act. Please assimilate. Beep boop.

Listen by all accounts I would probably be labeled neoliberal scum by at least a half dozen posters on this board if I laid my cards all on the table of how I would organize an economy, but I just don't understand this need of yours to jump to extremes and paint everyone with that brush while almost blindly latching onto counter tribes that are arguably far more harmful in their current state.

Like all those things you mentioned having issues with, like pharmaceutical pricing, college tuition, monopolies, income inequality, are all basically things that constitute social or market failures, and frankly, the only solutions that have proven to work have been intervention and the sort of controls/subsidization/wealth transfers/safety net programs that are broadly considered socialist in nature. Which at least on some fronts you accept(go like Teddy and break em up) are a good thing.

Like there is not a magic market solution that is going to bring down drug prices. You need some combination of price controls, regulation, and collective negotiation by the state(or some similarly powerful organization that acts as a gatekeeper). It's the only solution that has proven viable.

[bork]

What amazes me is that Himu posted this thread here and on neogoof at the same time...and this thread has almost double the amount of replies as the gaf thread does.     When a Bore thread gets more replies than a gaf thread does...damn.  Never thought I'd see that ever happen.

[Nintex]

Wait the financial crisis was because of socialism?

Plz tell me more

The socialists demanded that the banks lend money to everyone so they could buy homes.
In exchange for allowing poor people to buy houses the banks in the USA were completely deregulated by Bill Clinton in between intern blowjobs.
The banks repacked the shitty loans into 'packages' with better loans so they wouldn't look shitty in their books. After all housing prices could never go down so there was virtually no risk for the banks.
Either they got the money or the house (which had increased in value anyway).

At the same time in Europe, the Euro was forged at Mt. Doom . The Italians cooked their books so they could join the common currency, then the Greeks demanded to also be included because otherwise it wouldn't be fair.
With the snap of a finger Greek government bonds got the same backing as German or Dutch bonds. At the same time Greeks could lend money pretty much as easily as the Germans and Dutch could. So they started buying Porsche's and swimming pools.
However they didn't bother to fight corruption or collect taxes. Instead they hosted the Olympics with more loans.

Then this happened

[Himu]

Lots of odd accusations and misunderstandings here.

The 2008 financial crisis is a massive reason I eventually became sympathetic to socialism. Not that it caused it. That was badly written on my part. The ( )’s in that post dictate my mindset and the results of the political moment. 2008 was really influential to me.

I also have not said that social programs are bad. White thr opposite. Even I can admit we need a combo of capitalism and some social programs. Otherwise you have a society too collective and a society too self serving.

But social programs, as I said to Username is not full blown socialism.  I’m for some form of universal healthcare and have never wavered on that front. As long as a private option exists. But assumptions based on pure conjecture are being made that I hate taking care of people, which is anything but reality.

[curly]

Listen by all accounts I would probably be labeled neoliberal scum by at least a half dozen posters on this board if I laid my cards all on the table of how I would organize an economy, but I just don't understand this need of yours to jump to extremes and paint everyone with that brush while almost blindly latching onto counter tribes that are arguably far more harmful in their current state.

Because she's a complete hypocrite with no self-awareness who loves the sound of her own voice over anything else. See: "I was wrong to generalize all white people as bad. Now, let me tell you about the problem with you leftists based on some shit one poster said." If you engage her at this point you're probably a masochist. Luckily we have super ignore now

[Himu]

*chuckle*

[Yeti]

I think I’m confused, what is the difference between a socialist and a social programsist?

[Nola]

Lots of odd accusations and misunderstandings here.

The 2008 financial crisis is a massive reason I eventually became sympathetic to socialism. Not that it caused it. That was badly written on my part. The ( )’s in that post dictate my mindset and the results of the political moment. 2008 was really influential to me.

I also have not said that social programs are bad. White thr opposite. Even I can admit we need a combo of capitalism and some social programs. Otherwise you have a society too collective and a society too self serving.

But social programs, as I said to Username is not full blown socialism.  I’m for some form of universal healthcare and have never wavered on that front. As long as a private option exists. But assumptions based on pure conjecture are being made that I hate taking care of people, which is anything but reality.

Thats somewhat more informative for me, and that is seemingly where the vast majority of people are on this board and in society at large, so it makes your rant all that more bizarre IMO. Across your posts you basically just laid out most of Bernie Sanders/Cortez's platform/contentions with the exception of your weird sticking point about having a private healthcare option(I presume you mean insurance). If you think there are some magical market solutions to those issues you laid out that can serve as alternative paths to some of the offers you get in the left-wing and centrist left I would gladly hear them out.

There really isn't a big constituency for classic Marxism/full-on socialism and it always comes off a bit deranged when I see people clutch pearls about the dangers of Marxism when it has no chance of happening any time soon(especially in this country) and in response to that fear those people latch onto certain pro-market tribes that's capitalist rot has far more agency, urgency, and harm in current society.

[Nola]

Listen by all accounts I would probably be labeled neoliberal scum by at least a half dozen posters on this board if I laid my cards all on the table of how I would organize an economy, but I just don't understand this need of yours to jump to extremes and paint everyone with that brush while almost blindly latching onto counter tribes that are arguably far more harmful in their current state.

Because she's a complete hypocrite with no self-awareness who loves the sound of her own voice over anything else. See: "I was wrong to generalize all white people as bad. Now, let me tell you about the problem with you leftists based on some shit one poster said." If you engage her at this point you're probably a masochist. Luckily we have super ignore now

I think its safe to say I definitely have a masochist streak when it comes to this stuff.

[Himu]

Most republican elders wouldn’t like it if they lost their social security. Are they socialists? Full blown socialism - which is what I critique - is a method of governance as much as it is economic. Assuming that when I say socialism that I’m talking about someone who wants to destroy monopolies and conflating them to be actual socialists is a big mistake.
 
I have been consistent on this. My problem is with socialism. The form of government. I have never said we should have zero safety nets.

And Nola, what is that extreme? As far as I’m concerned I’m sitting st a place where Democrats have been for decades. Social programs good, socialism bad. Pretty standard American stuff.

And curly thinking I’m going at socialists and not the ideology and system is

[Himu]

Lots of odd accusations and misunderstandings here.

The 2008 financial crisis is a massive reason I eventually became sympathetic to socialism. Not that it caused it. That was badly written on my part. The ( )’s in that post dictate my mindset and the results of the political moment. 2008 was really influential to me.

I also have not said that social programs are bad. White thr opposite. Even I can admit we need a combo of capitalism and some social programs. Otherwise you have a society too collective and a society too self serving.

But social programs, as I said to Username is not full blown socialism.  I’m for some form of universal healthcare and have never wavered on that front. As long as a private option exists. But assumptions based on pure conjecture are being made that I hate taking care of people, which is anything but reality.

Thats somewhat more informative for me, and that is seemingly where the vast majority of people are on this board and in society at large, so it makes your rant all that more bizarre IMO. Across your posts you basically just laid out most of Bernie Sanders/Cortez's platform/contentions with the exception of your weird sticking point about having a private healthcare option(I presume you mean insurance). If you think there are some magical market solutions to those issues you laid out that can serve as alternative paths to some of the offers you get in the left-wing and centrist left I would gladly hear them out.

There really isn't a big constituency for classic Marxism/full-on socialism and it always comes off a bit deranged when I see people clutch pearls about the dangers of Marxism when it has no chance of happening any time soon(especially in this country) and in response to that fear those people latch onto certain pro-market tribes that's capitalist rot has far more agency, urgency, and harm in current society.

How many trans people do you know? RE’s trans community is a good sample of the mainstream trans person now. Now how many trans people do you think *i* know? Now you know why I hate socialism. Almost every person in my circle is a socialist or a commie. So it’s probably part of my bubble. Meanwhile the democrats are inarguably going further left. Nah. NAH. Socialism is no!

[Trent Dole]

[Nola]

Most republican elders wouldn’t like it if they lost their social security. Are they socialists? Full blown socialism - which is what I critique - is a method of governance as much as it is economic. Assuming that when I say socialism that I’m talking about someone who wants to destroy monopolies and conflating them to be actual socialists is a big mistake.
 
I have been consistent on this. My problem is with socialism. The form of government. I have never said we should have zero safety nets.

And Nola, what is that extreme? As far as I’m concerned I’m sitting st a place where Democrats have been for decades. Social programs good, socialism bad. Pretty standard American stuff.

And curly thinking I’m going at socialists and not the ideology and system is

In that case you are kind of yelling about phantoms then.

There is no large constituency for full blown Marxism/Socialism.

And where there is one, that small niche is either going to weigh their equities and fall in line with the closest majority party that shares some of those grievances and solutions(like universal healthcare, universal college education, increased labor rights etc.) understanding they gain nothing by conferring that benefit to party's that share an opposite view and would advance the rot they are looking to correct, hopefully over time pushing that party more and more to their positions(but hitting a wall due to America's collective aversion to full blown socialism). Or they are going to be an Optimus for the rest of their lives and think magically sitting on their hands is going to magically lead to a socialist revolution and they will remain marginalized that much more.

[agrajag]

Try social democracy.

Nola, you have saintly patience.

[Nola]

How many trans people do you know? RE’s trans community is a good sample of the mainstream trans person now. Now how many trans people do you think *i* know? Now you know why I hate socialism. Almost every person in my circle is a socialist or a commie. So it’s probably part of my bubble. Meanwhile the democrats are inarguably going further left. Nah. NAH. Socialism is no!

And they should be moving more to the left IMO as the solutions to almost all of the problems you have mentioned require that shift. Hell, to get to where you yourself have said you want to see American policy all but requires that. So that should be a good thing no?

So I guess I am not understanding this sort of double speak between being for policies that are objectively to the left of the current status quo/party platform(like heavier trust busting, pursuing UHC and drug price controls, college tuition relief etc.) and clutching pearls over the Democratic party moving left to meet those challenges. For instance saying we need to have solutions to contain out of control drug prices then getting mad when the left is talking about embracing collective bargaining for pharm pricing and/or embracing fixes to Obamacare like Medicaid buy-ins up to Medicare for all. All of which are better qualitatively and economically than what the status quo currently is. They also happen to be solutions that would move the party to the left. Which seems like a good thing if they solve these problems, no?

[Himu]

Also all the black people I know that are socialist/communist. Good Lord. “Black people cannot survive under capitalism.” As if that erases the human element and that black people will rise above, cream of the crop. Just like in Cuba. I can’t beleive I fell for that shit because my heroes (black panthers) were far left.

We must fight socialism and its resurgence.
 
Like the Buddha said, this too will pass.

[Cerveza mas fina]

You mean communism right

[warcock]

On one hand this wouldnt have reached this kind of audience without marvel on the other it used marvel to deliver an important message. I can't. *scapegoating marvel to camouflage my racism !!!!!!1111*

[Himu]

Nola I disagree that I’m chasing ghosts. It might be my circle but I swear young people see socialism as favorable. I’m not the only one and it feels like you’re gaslighting me to undermine its rise.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/g00/news/opinion/chapman/ct-perspec-chapman-young-socialism-capitalism-20180520-story.html?i10c.encReferrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8%3D&i10c.ua=4

https://www.marketplace.org/2018/05/17/economy/millennials-socialism-isnt-dirty-word-it-was-other-generations

I’m completely against it due to my experience within socialist circles.

[warcock]

Nola I disagree that I’m chasing ghosts. It might be my circle but I swear young people see socialism as favorable. I’m not the only one and it feels like you’re gaslighting me to undermine its rise.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/g00/news/opinion/chapman/ct-perspec-chapman-young-socialism-capitalism-20180520-story.html?i10c.encReferrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8%3D&i10c.ua=4

https://www.marketplace.org/2018/05/17/economy/millennials-socialism-isnt-dirty-word-it-was-other-generations

I’m completely against it due to my experience within socialist circles.

When you aim for perfection you usually end up with excellence.

[Nola]

Also all the black people I know that are socialist/communist. Good Lord. “Black people cannot survive under capitalism.” As if that erases the human element and that black people will rise above, cream of the crop. Just like in Cuba. I can’t beleive I fell for that shit because my heroes (black panthers) were far left.

We must fight socialism and its resurgence.
 
Like the Buddha said, this too will pass.

Avoid motivated reasoning and try being more solution based Cindi. You will find that you are much less prone to getting hoodwinked when you build your belief structure around a process of working toward viable solutions to problems you see in society instead of warping your viewpoints around the tribes and villains that are tugging at your particular emotional heartstrings at any given moment and then running to a new tribe to start the process over the moment some of their representatives rub you the wrong way.

Nola I disagree that I’m chasing ghosts. It might be my circle but I swear young people see socialism as favorable. I’m not the only one and it feels like you’re gaslighting me to undermine its rise.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/g00/news/opinion/chapman/ct-perspec-chapman-young-socialism-capitalism-20180520-story.html?i10c.encReferrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8%3D&i10c.ua=4

https://www.marketplace.org/2018/05/17/economy/millennials-socialism-isnt-dirty-word-it-was-other-generations

I’m completely against it due to my experience within socialist circles.

You should be for or against things because they rise/fail on empirical and/or moral grounds, not sure why your social circle should be the overriding driver of your personal viewpoints?

Socialism shouldn't be a dirty word any more than capitalism. That hyperbolic treatment of socialism is a large reason why this country is still bitching about drug prices in 2018 and tens of millions of people still have inadequate healthcare or are crippled by student debt. This country absolutely needs a course correction in its normative structure so we can have a more honest discussion and have more honest political debates to solve the litany of problems that socialist policies have the only real answers for. Instead of having things like UHC debates shut down int he mind of 45% of the population because the other side pulls out the communism/socialism boogieman label.

Milleniels being less irrationally triggered by the term socialism and the sort of policies that other societies in the developed world have embraced is not a bad thing. Again there is not a large constituency for textbook classic Marxism and neither of those pieces shows evidence of that. You seem to be assuming that every person in these polls is sharing your strict definition of socialism, that is probably an unwise assumption.

[Himu]

I have given numerous examples of my being against socialism on moral grounds. I think it is wrong and against human nature. The only reason I bring up circles is because of how socialism works. It is a collective ideology and therefore the group and how it reacts is most prominent. Because everything is about the collective. I have said this multiple times.

But tell me how I can be more solution if you see that I recognize there’s a problem?

And democrats going further left isn’t a solution. Actually it depends on what you mean by left. Most of the left today is full on IDpol. But so is the right. If by democrats going left you mean emphasis on the working class, economic solutions, destroying monopolies I’d be for it. But that’s not what I’m seeing.

[Nola]

I have given numerous examples of my being against socialism on moral grounds. I think it is wrong and against human nature. The only reason I bring up circles is because of how socialism works. It is a collective ideology and therefore the group and how it reacts is most prominent.

But tell me how I can be more solution if you see that I recognize a problem?

Ironically you have basically substituted in socialism as your new boogieman the same way you used to do for white people, gun control advocates, and more recently liberal social justice advocates. After all this time how come you haven't stopped to ask yourself why you keep falling down the rabbit hole of misjudging and broad brushing things so routinely and what you could do to change that?

I really don't give a shit if you are against textbook Marxism as it is not a realistic threat to being implemented in America anytime soon and it's a pointless discussion unless a person is trying to catastrophize over it's current dangers, which is just irrational. Where my contention was is in the double speak aspect of your rants. The "we need to reign in drug prices/trust-bust/do something about college debt" and then complaining that the Democratic party is moving left to meet those challenges.

On a side note, you should look into research into the minimal group paradigm and just how easy it is for humans to act irrationally tribal. Whatever it is you think is unique and troubling in terms of groupthink in your social circle, I can assure it is not.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Nola doing engels work

[Nola]

And democrats going further left isn’t a solution. Actually it depends on what you mean by left. Most of the left today is full on IDpol. But so is the right. If by democrats going left you mean emphasis on the working class, economic solutions, destroying monopolies I’d be for it. But that’s not what I’m seeing.

You seemingly aren't looking in the right places then.  For instance it has been healthcare, not the culture wars that Democrats across the country have been primarily campaigning on. By a pretty notable margin political ads talking about healthcare outnumbers any other issue by post 2016 Democratic candidates. The Democrats rumored October surprise? Asking everyone to look at their premium increases and juxtaposing that with the ongoing and disgusting Republican sabotage of the healthcare market that has driven up costs even outside of the individual market and have put at risk millions of people's coverage.

[Himu]

Idk. I have a binary brain. Socialism = bad, gun control advocates = wrong side of the issue.



Maybe I have the ‘tism. Who knows.

[Himu]

I’ve genuinely tried to stop being black and white but don’t know how.

[benjipwns]

And curly thinking I’m going at statists and not the ideology and system is

[curly]

And curly thinking I’m going at statists and not the ideology and system is

don't make me call mandark in to keep you in line

[Himu]

Also socialism isn’t a boogeyman. It is a real threat, however. And Ive not seen that from democrats. What I see is allowing illegals to vote and doing gun ban laws. They have a fantastic midterm pitch.

[VomKriege]

And curly thinking I’m going at statists and not the ideology and system is

Awwwww. Don't worry, we'll assimilate you last.

[Himu]

Also got to love how “you’re painting a wide brush” against something that is responsible for the most deaths out of any ideology of the 20th century (over 100 million) and is the cause of the recent collapse of Venezuela. Consider socialism a failure, that inherently results in evil like gulags and you’re painting too broad a brush when that’s standard, mainstream opinion.

:yeshrugs Liberals

[agrajag]

Go ahead, post dem holodomor kids

[benjipwns]

don't make me call mandark in to keep you in line

he's too busy following DNC orders to protect DNC mormon law professors from criticism by non-DNC minorities with his DNC approved snarky DNC talking points

[warcock]

Also got to love how “you’re painting a wide brush” against something that is responsible for the most deaths out of any ideology of the 20th century (over 100 million) and is the cause of the recent collapse of Venezuela. Consider socialism a failure, that inherently results in evil like gulags and you’re painting too broad a brush when that’s standard, mainstream opinion.

:yeshrugs Liberals

Socialism and communism in the ways they have manifested in the 20th century have proven to be catastrophic. Now start to tally the horrors that directly or indirectly occurred under the watch of various forms of capitalistic regimes.  I'll give you that at least in terms of scale, efficiency and quickness some communist regimes managed to inflict horrific purges on their own populations, for which it is difficult to find replications in most modern western capitalistic regimes aside from Nazi Germany.   But in terms of outcomes this debate is murky beyond resolution. In B4 people defending elephant world income graph, i.e it is difficult to attribute the rise of income in developing countries when your practical frame of reference is ONLY capitalism. Alternatively i'd like to see equality metric studies in a certain historical period between say a communist country and an emerging capitalist nation to compare the ratio of people actually LIFTED from poverty. Eitherway i don't care for the established old school reds and their offspring, as far as i'm concerned melanchon, corbyn, die linke can dissapear. I'm more interested in the alternatives provided by the likes of podemos/syriza type movements and their refinement since it is clear that the SPD center left types are patients in their death beds.

[naff]

Idk. I have a binary brain. Socialism = bad, gun control advocates = wrong side of the issue.



Maybe I have the ‘tism. Who knows.

Admitting it is the first step to change <3

[Himu]

Also got to love how “you’re painting a wide brush” against something that is responsible for the most deaths out of any ideology of the 20th century (over 100 million) and is the cause of the recent collapse of Venezuela. Consider socialism a failure, that inherently results in evil like gulags and you’re painting too broad a brush when that’s standard, mainstream opinion.

:yeshrugs Liberals

Socialism and communism in the ways they have manifested in the 20th century have proven to be catastrophic. Now start to tally the horrors that directly or indirectly occurred under the watch of various forms of capitalistic regimes.  I'll give you that at least in terms of scale, efficiency and quickness some communist regimes managed to inflict horrific purges on their own populations, for which it is difficult to find replications in most modern western capitalistic regimes aside from Nazi Germany.   But in terms of outcomes this debate is murky beyond resolution. In B4 people defending elephant world income graph, i.e it is difficult to attribute the rise of income in developing countries when your practical frame of reference is ONLY capitalism. Alternatively i'd like to see equality metric studies in a certain historical period between say a communist country and an emerging capitalist nation to compare the ratio of people actually LIFTED from poverty. Eitherway i don't care for the established old school reds and their offspring, as far as i'm concerned melanchon, corbyn, die linke can dissapear. I'm more interested in the alternatives provided by the likes of podemos/syriza type movements and their refinement since it is clear that the SPD center left types are patients in their death beds.

I in no way say capitalism is a perfect system. No system is perfect. Because humans are inherently broken and therefore flawed creatures. The only thing perfect is God.

That said, there were more released under the shackles of poverty than capitalism. What great art has socialism produced? You’ve got Cuban jazz and....that’s it. I’m drawing a blank. Even when black people were second class citizens under capitalism they were enabled to produce profound works of art. Jazz? Capitalism. Blues? Capitalism. Hip hop? Rock? Capitalism. How is great art curated under socialism? Where’s their 2001: A Space Odyssey? I’m not going to downplay the horrors of capitalism, but in most cases it was the state rather than the economic system. Under socialism they make socialism the state and raise above mere economic system. The two can’t even hope to compare.

And yet here we are talking via something that changed human communication forever: the internet. Another invention of capitalism.

So while I won’t say capitalism is perfect, it’s far and beyond socialism. Socialism keeps capitalism in check, but itself it results in death and destruction.

[BlueTsunami]

The future Cindi wants

[benjipwns]

he's holding a cigarette the entire time

[Cerveza mas fina]

But if god exists he has caused more deaths then stalin

[team filler]

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/07/the-democratic-party-apologizes-to-black-voters/565697/

 

[Crash Dummy]

can we talk about how bad the cgi was in black panther? at times it looked worse than x-men 1 (marxist reading into this optional)

[Mandark]

like have you considered just living your life, taking up a couple hobbies, drinking a bit, watching TV, traveling etc.

yknow instead of wasting away your life on GAF/Era/TheBore

this is an attack on all of us