Nothing is Constant Except Change: The Global Climate Thread

[Occam]

Why, what would you do about it? Trade embargo to make the poor part of the population starve first?

[BisMarckie]

Lets kill them instead. 

[Occam]

Que?
I am talking about ousting the government, putting the country under international control and guarding the remaining Amazon rain forest with UN troops if necessary.

[Great Rumbler]

Que?
I am talking about ousting the government, putting the country under international control and guarding the remaining Amazon rain forest with UN troops if necessary.

 

[Occam]

Again, what other solution is there? We are close to the point of no return.
It's not going to happen of course because destroying the green lung of our planet doesn't affect short term profits, it merely quickens the demise of humanity.
If there was oil in Brazil, the US would be scrambling to find a casus belli right now.

[Kara]

Attacking Brazil (whose government represents a large segment of a society that would presumably object to invasion) while leaving in tact, say, the U.S. consumer economy, seems the epitome of "missing the point" but I'm not a "planting some trees will stop anthropocene" guy.

[Occam]

I am still waiting for your hypothetical galaxy brain solutions to this existential threat.

Edit: You can and should do multiple things simultaneously. Stopping the immediate destruction is just one thing.
Changing our global economy is another.

[Kara]

OK, here's one, why don't we pay Brazil more money than they will make shredding up the rainforest to not shred up the rainforest.

[Occam]

So you are saying this is a hostage situation? You know how those are usually resolved.

[OnlyRegret]

I know who to call

[Nintex]

A hostage situation you say? Someone call Putin. He has experience with those.
 

[BisMarckie]

Building a Metal Gear to protect the rain forest is a pretty good idea in comparison.

[Kara]

It's a business deal. For years the message to periphery and semi-periphery economies has been "shred your resources to fulfill our needs and in exchange you will theoretically receive some developmental benefits." Now we're asking them to dramatically restructure their modes of production in exchange for... not being violently attacked?

[Nintex]

It's a business deal. For years the message to periphery and semi-periphery economies has been "shred your resources to fulfill our needs and in exchange you will theoretically receive some developmental benefits." Now we're asking them to dramatically restructure their modes of production in exchange for... not being violently attacked?

 

[Occam]

Oh, I am absolutely in favour of supporting Brazil's infrastructure, I would gladly pay a rainforest tax.

[Great Rumbler]

Oh, I am absolutely in favour of supporting Brazil's infrastructure, I would gladly pay a rainforest tax.

That's considerably different from "Let's invade a Top 10 economy, topple their government, and leave behind a significant military presence indefinitely."

[OnlyRegret]

ecofascistic imperialism, colonialism for a new age

[Occam]

Oh, I am absolutely in favour of supporting Brazil's infrastructure, I would gladly pay a rainforest tax.

That's considerably different from "Let's invade a Top 10 economy, topple their government, and leave behind a significant military presence indefinitely."

Most people won't be in favor of paying such a tax, especially not the wealthy. Do you think I could successfully run for office with the promise of introducing a rainforest tax?
The other problem is that you still need a regime change in Brazil. Without it the money wouldn't actually be used to save anything but instead line the pockets of the ruling class and the populist right wing government. Getting paid by the international community while continuing deforestation? =Twice the money.

[chronovore]

In a sane world, a short ultimatum would be handed to Brazil by the international community to stop the deforestation, followed by military invasion. It would be one of the very few just wars in human history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Give_Me_Liberty#Part_1:_Homes_&_Gardens

[ToxicAdam]

The greatest determiner of people adapting to future climate change is prosperity. If you "pay off" countries in order to keep them as quasi-third/second world countries then you are just dooming millions of their people to hardship/death in the future.


There has to be a balance where we allow countries to elevate themselves (through the same means that current first world countries did), but in a more responsible manner.

[Mandark]

There has to be a balance where we allow countries to elevate themselves (through the same means that current first world countries did), but in a more responsible manner.

So Brazil should invade us.

 

[curly]

This is 100% going to get weaponized against the economic periphery and semi-periphery, isn't it?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/24/climate/moodys-ratings-climate-change-data.html

In a sane world, a short ultimatum would be handed to Brazil by the international community to stop the deforestation, followed by military invasion. It would be one of the very few just wars in human history.

[chronovore]

https://www.noaa.gov/news/july-2019-was-hottest-month-on-record-for-planet

[Occam]

In the interest of the survival of our species and as a matter of self-defense, this needs to be stopped right now, no matter how.

https://mobile.twitter.com/i/events/1164155245913505792

[Nintex]

In the interest of the survival of our species and as a matter of self-defense, this needs to be stopped right now, no matter how.

https://mobile.twitter.com/i/events/1164155245913505792

I don't think it can be stopped. At least, I wouldn't have the slightest idea how you could stop a forest fire of this size
It seems like more and more forest is burned every year  :'(

[chronovore]

http://twitter.com/theintercept/status/1164225530629165056

[OnlyRegret]

ecofascistic imperialism, colonialism for a new age

so when are we invading brazil

[Occam]

We won't, and then we're all going to die. But at least we'll then be able to look back contentedly (for a short moment at least) at the time this crisis was unfolding and when a quick intervention could have prevented a global catastrophe resulting in the death of Billions and be glad it wasn't weaponized against the periphery and its poor right wing goverment.

[Joe Molotov]

http://twitter.com/theintercept/status/1164225530629165056

Sure, but what's the catch?

[Nintex]

We won't, and then we're all going to die. But at least we'll then be able to look back contentedly (for a short moment at least) at the time this crisis was unfolding and when a quick intervention could have prevented a global catastrophe resulting in the death of Billions and be glad it wasn't weaponized against the periphery and its poor right wing goverment.

That's the rationale that got Truman and others to meddle in South American affairs during the cold war of which Bolsonaro is a logical outcome.
The Brazilians themselves should handle it otherwise you'll end up in the same boat a few years from now. We're already seeing that Bolsonaro's approval numbers are tanking because he can't 'magically' fix the economy.

The only thing that would work is a grand bargain in which Europe, Japan, the US and others pay less developed countries like Brazil, Russia and other countries with ecologically important areas billions of dollars every year to prop up their economies in exchange for properly maintaining such areas.

[Himu]

https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-fires-may-help-dieback-emit-carbon-hurry-climate-change-2019-8

Fuck Brazil.

And fuck humanity.

[Nintex]

https://twitter.com/BBCWorld/status/1164591334168154115

Well.. he is at least aware this is happening and says that he doesn't have the resources to fight it.
Bolivia has just bought a 737 super tanker to deal with the fires on their side of the border. Maybe they can help out.

[CatsCatsCats]

Send in the water jet tanks from the soviets

[Himu]

This shit is making me socialist again lmao these mfers

[chronovore]

This shit is making me socialist again lmao these mfers

Most days it feels like a strong breeze is enough to initiate radical change in you.

[Himu]

This shit is making me socialist again lmao these mfers

Most days it feels like a strong breeze is enough to initiate radical change in you.

It was a joke but ok.

[Don Rumata]

If we're past the point of no return, why bother. Everyone run their ACs with the windows open the rest of summer

Electric bills are still a thing, you know. 

[Mandark]

We won't, and then we're all going to die. But at least we'll then be able to look back contentedly (for a short moment at least) at the time this crisis was unfolding and when a quick intervention could have prevented a global catastrophe resulting in the death of Billions and be glad it wasn't weaponized against the periphery and its poor right wing goverment.

I agree that goading the Trump administration into invading and occupying Brazil would be the smart and good thing to do.

[Nintex]

We won't, and then we're all going to die. But at least we'll then be able to look back contentedly (for a short moment at least) at the time this crisis was unfolding and when a quick intervention could have prevented a global catastrophe resulting in the death of Billions and be glad it wasn't weaponized against the periphery and its poor right wing goverment.

I agree that goading the Trump administration into invading and occupying Brazil would be the smart and good thing to do.

"WOW did you see those planes. Bang bang, bing bing.... I told you we would win if we used the Napalm again. And they said 'oh sir please don't use the NAPALM... it burns so much' and then the trees. NAPALM do we love that word?
I asked the other day to a great veteran of Vietnam. I said, what could we have done to win and he said burn more trees so we could see the damn bastards but the Geneva wouldn't let us.
Geneva? Never met her and believe me they don't have the US military in Geneva I can tell you that.

We won bigly folks. Now for my first action. You all care very much about the Amazons right. That's why we did this and why Congress asked me to take action... look CNN is smiling!
Even the media likes me now. It would never happen again they said, remember that ooooh it would never happen again. Yet they voted for this Nazi can you believe how STUPID the people of Brazil are.
Lucky we got there in time folks. Luckily we got there in time before they started rounding up the Jews at Amazon. Talk about a brand killer.

Now I'm happy to announce that my son Eric Trump will be the new President of the Amazon and Brazil. Who better than a guy who knows a lot of about forests and hunting and believe me he knows a lot.
We're going to start raking, we're going to start cutting and sawing and farming and most of all we're going to start building and make The Amazon Great Again. Fantastic everyone. THANK YOU"

[chronovore]

We won't, and then we're all going to die. But at least we'll then be able to look back contentedly (for a short moment at least) at the time this crisis was unfolding and when a quick intervention could have prevented a global catastrophe resulting in the death of Billions and be glad it wasn't weaponized against the periphery and its poor right wing goverment.

I agree that goading the Trump administration into invading and occupying Brazil would be the smart and good thing to do.

"WOW did you see those planes. Bang bang, bing bing.... I told you we would win if we used the Napalm again. And they said 'oh sir please don't use the NAPALM... it burns so much' and then the trees. NAPALM do we love that word?
I asked the other day to a great veteran of Vietnam. I said, what could we have done to win and he said burn more trees so we could see the damn bastards but the Geneva wouldn't let us.
Geneva? Never met her and believe me they don't have the US military in Geneva I can tell you that.

We won bigly folks. Now for my first action. You all care very much about the Amazons right. That's why we did this and why Congress asked me to take action... look CNN is smiling!
Even the media likes me now. It would never happen again they said, remember that ooooh it would never happen again. Yet they voted for this Nazi can you believe how STUPID the people of Brazil are.
Lucky we got there in time folks. Luckily we got there in time before they started rounding up the Jews at Amazon. Talk about a brand killer.

Now I'm happy to announce that my son Eric Trump will be the new President of the Amazon and Brazil. Who better than a guy who knows a lot of about forests and hunting and believe me he knows a lot.
We're going to start raking, we're going to start cutting and sawing and farming and most of all we're going to start building and make The Amazon Great Again. Fantastic everyone. THANK YOU"

This is… way too easy to envision.

[thisismyusername]

This shit is making me socialist again lmao these mfers

Most days it feels like a strong breeze is enough to initiate radical change in you.

[OnlyRegret]

We won't, and then we're all going to die. But at least we'll then be able to look back contentedly (for a short moment at least) at the time this crisis was unfolding and when a quick intervention could have prevented a global catastrophe resulting in the death of Billions and be glad it wasn't weaponized against the periphery and its poor right wing goverment.

I agree that goading the Trump administration into invading and occupying Brazil would be the smart and good thing to do.

"WOW did you see those planes. Bang bang, bing bing.... I told you we would win if we used the Napalm again. And they said 'oh sir please don't use the NAPALM... it burns so much' and then the trees. NAPALM do we love that word?
I asked the other day to a great veteran of Vietnam. I said, what could we have done to win and he said burn more trees so we could see the damn bastards but the Geneva wouldn't let us.
Geneva? Never met her and believe me they don't have the US military in Geneva I can tell you that.

We won bigly folks. Now for my first action. You all care very much about the Amazons right. That's why we did this and why Congress asked me to take action... look CNN is smiling!
Even the media likes me now. It would never happen again they said, remember that ooooh it would never happen again. Yet they voted for this Nazi can you believe how STUPID the people of Brazil are.
Lucky we got there in time folks. Luckily we got there in time before they started rounding up the Jews at Amazon. Talk about a brand killer.

Now I'm happy to announce that my son Eric Trump will be the new President of the Amazon and Brazil. Who better than a guy who knows a lot of about forests and hunting and believe me he knows a lot.
We're going to start raking, we're going to start cutting and sawing and farming and most of all we're going to start building and make The Amazon Great Again. Fantastic everyone. THANK YOU"

This is… way too easy to envision.

ghostwriting for trump was his calling

[Occam]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/now-begins-the-biggest-challenge-of-the-amazon-fires-putting-them-out/2019/08/26/43c526d0-c80b-11e9-9615-8f1a32962e04_story.html?noredirect=on

Shocking. If only there was a solution.

[Occam]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/trump-pushes-to-allow-new-logging-in-alaskas-tongass-national-forest/2019/08/27/b4ca78d6-c832-11e9-be05-f76ac4ec618c_story.html?noredirect=on

[Occam]

E.P.A. to Roll Back Regulations on Methane, a Potent Greenhouse Gas

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/29/climate/epa-methane-greenhouse-gas.html

(The P in E.P.A. stands for "pollution".)

[chronovore]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/trump-pushes-to-allow-new-logging-in-alaskas-tongass-national-forest/2019/08/27/b4ca78d6-c832-11e9-be05-f76ac4ec618c_story.html?noredirect=on

I am just stunned at how much he's willing to destroy shit. I bet he's got all kinds of graft that's stupidly easy to track. If only the rest of government was doing their job on emoluments, etc.

[chronovore]

https://returntonow.net/2019/08/04/irish-teenager-invents-magnetic-liquid-trap-that-can-remove-90-of-microplastics-from-water/

[chronovore]

https://twitter.com/adamconover/status/1170792555383947264

[VomKriege]

French climate scientists apparently now have a model that if emissions aren't curbed by 2100 we could on an average of +7° Celsius.
 

[chronovore]

Being able to witness the end of the world in my lifetime it's a horrible kind of privilege, but a privilege no doubt.

Nope, we'll be dead from food shortages or catastrophic weather.

[chronovore]

https://twitter.com/hasanthehun/status/1175101344648069120

[benjipwns]

Cool (but warming?) article from last year about efforts in 1979-1989 to draw attention and how basically everybody said "yeah, we'll be dead then anyway" and kiboshed a wide variety of plans including unexpected people like Exxon and Republicans (including Reaganites) even ones that had basically no opposition like "let coal be naturally replaced" as people focused on stuff like ozone or whatever instead:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/08/01/magazine/climate-change-losing-earth.html

Probably old news, but since it was a new article to me and I don't think was posted in the thread thought I'd share it.

[Mandark]

benji you said the climate models were bad

[benjipwns]

It is still an interesting article and history. The GOP using the subject as part of a nuclear push is amusing. I also did not know that H. W. Bush had attacked Dukakis for ignoring global warming in favor of increasing coal production. John Sununu may have single handedly defeated a carbon dioxide treaty in 1989 along with getting David Souter appointed to the Supreme Court and convincing Bush to go back on the "no new taxes" pledge. That's gotta be some kind of record in major campaign promises reversed for a single Chief of Staff who had to resign in disgrace before the term was over. Not to mention how he got himself into the position in the first place.

[Mandark]

so are the climate models bad or no

[benjipwns]

It matters not now.

[OnlyRegret]

most of these democrat platforms are switch to 100% solar and wind
do people in general feel that is feasible or that it fails to include other necessities like in example dramatic usage pullback?

[Mandark]

I dunno but a lot of the discussion on this ignores the fact that the private sector pressed 7 to be taken off of nuclear's call list, and calls to "be realistic" about it wind up sneaking their plea for massive subsidies in the seventh paragraph.

[OnlyRegret]

https://twitter.com/LegendaryEnergy/status/1175078447535640576

[Rufus]

https://twitter.com/LegendaryEnergy/status/1175572093003431936

The issue we actually did something about is being alleviated.

This guy is deeply confused.