Author Topic: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.  (Read 226019 times)

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Crash Dummy

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shosta

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1141 on: October 24, 2019, 04:15:56 PM »
:goty

EDIT: it was pretty bad.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 05:44:12 PM by shosta »
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curly

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1143 on: October 24, 2019, 07:48:54 PM »
https://nplusonemag.com/online-only/online-only/professional-managerial-chasm/

Really liked this piece. Most clear-headed analysis of the current situation on the left I've read.

This piece touched off a somewhat tedious back and forth in leftist circles but this interview with Barbara Ehrenreich (who coined the term PMC) was interesting. Also:

Quote
It didn’t work out. The professor and his wife walked out. First, they denounced me personally—they brought a copy of Mao’s Little Red Book, which they read aloud from, only whenever Mao was denouncing liberals, they would say “Barbara.” It was just bizarre, and it was painful at the same time.

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1144 on: October 24, 2019, 07:54:27 PM »
Quote
It didn’t work out. The professor and his wife walked out. First, they denounced me personally—they brought a copy of Mao’s Little Red Book, which they read aloud from, only whenever Mao was denouncing liberals, they would say “Barbara.” It was just bizarre, and it was painful at the same time.
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I saw similar things going on in other parts of the country. For example, there were fights that would break out in food co-ops—they were called the “Twinkie wars.” People wanted the food co-op to carry the highly processed, no-doubt-bad-for-you foods that they could get in the supermarket. and the more PMC types did not want that.
:lol we're fucked
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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1145 on: October 24, 2019, 08:46:20 PM »
Quote
Ecuador’s indigenous movement said on Wednesday that it paused talks with President Lenin Moreno because of the government’s “persecution” of the group’s leaders since a halt to violent anti-austerity protests.

Jaime Vargas, head of the Confederation of Indigenous Nationalities of Ecuador, or CONAIE, said the group had entered the talks “in good faith,” but an atmosphere of trust did not exist. “We cannot be at the table while they are pursuing us,” Vargas told reporters.
:teehee
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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1147 on: October 25, 2019, 02:37:50 AM »
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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1149 on: October 25, 2019, 08:44:25 PM »
I just found out one of the DSA NPC members is literally named "Sauce". No last name. :goty
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shosta

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1150 on: October 26, 2019, 06:10:46 PM »




watching Chilean capitalism burn :aah
« Last Edit: October 26, 2019, 06:15:12 PM by shosta »
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curly

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1152 on: October 28, 2019, 02:34:52 PM »
The week before the current Chilean protests broke out FT had an interview with the President and his arrogance is pretty amusing in retrospect:

Quote
Determined to preserve his country’s reputation as a beacon of stability and sound economic management in a continent not famous for either, Chile’s billionaire president Sebastián Piñera defines himself as a committed crusader against populism. His fight is an increasingly solitary one.

Latin America’s two biggest economies, Brazil and Mexico, are governed by populists of the right and left respectively; neighbouring Argentina looks set to eject Mr Piñera’s close ally Mauricio Macri and return to Peronism in elections at the end of this month; and pro-reform presidents in Peru and Ecuador are fighting for their political lives.

But Mr Piñera is unbowed, invoking classical myth in his fight against the demagogues. “Ulysses tied himself to a ship’s mast and put pieces of wax in his ears to avoid falling for the . . . siren calls,” the silver-haired 69-year-old leader tells the Financial Times during a conversation at the presidential palace in Santiago. “We are ready to do everything to not fall into populism, into demagoguery.”

Quote
   Closer to home, Mr Piñera is sympathetic to the electoral plight of his neighbour Mr Macri, who polls say will lose his bid for re-election in Argentina by a wide margin on October 27.

“Macri is a good guy,” he insists. “I have been very good friends with him for many years,” dismissing an aide’s suggestion that the remark should not be quoted.

But he is quick to point out the sharp differences between Chile’s consistently well-performing economy and its sickly Argentine neighbour, as well as the generally unhealthy region of which they form a part.

“Look at Latin America,” Mr Piñera said. “Argentina and Paraguay are in recession, Mexico and Brazil in stagnation, Peru and Ecuador in deep political crisis and in this context Chile looks like an oasis because we have stable democracy, the economy is growing, we are creating jobs, we are improving salaries and we are keeping macroeconomic balance . . . Is it easy? No, it’s not. But it’s worth fighting for.”
Also because Benji has infected me with his curse I now read the comments section and while the FT one is pretty level headed as far as comments sections go they hate the Chilean protestors. Guess it's hard to see the faults in the gold standard of neoliberalism.
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The headline is a comic bravado from a politician that in his first term kowtowed to the left and opened Chile political system to populism with its ambiguous policies that damaged competition and private initiative and his inability to stand firm to oversized demands for social freebies. Populism is already well entrenched in this small country with limited resources, partly because its elites and workers have long seen themselves as the Europeans of Latin America and deserving of the same social largesse of countries with a multiple of its per capital income. Once again, as those international meetings approach, the government propaganda machine will harp on Chilean hollow exceptionalism.
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You seem to have mixed up the Chilean case with Argentina and Uruguay....Chile is different; its economy has strongly diverged form its undisciplined,  sleazy  neighbours since the mid 1980's
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   This article is about Chile, but the authors should limit their use of 'populism' to 'economic populism', as their reference to Brazil as 'governed by populists of the right' is highly misleading.  Brazil is currently implementing what is arguably the MOST AMBITIOUS ECONOMIC LIBERALIZATION program on the PLANET! Brazil's economic policy is NOT POPULIST!

Brazil should be the real focus for anyone analyzing the South American continent. The nation is 10X+ larger than Chile, with a 200+ million population, compared to Chile's 20 million. Chile is a reference, a model, a blueprint, an example for the region and Brazil's current administration absolutely relies on its precedent policies to guide its current reforms. Brazil's economic liberalization program is far-reaching and all-encompassing, including complete tax policy reform, pension system reform, labor market liberalization, central bank monetary policy independence, financial market deregulation, transport/communications market deregulation, large-scale privatization program.

Of course, the real point of this article is to highlight the power of Chile's institutional development and stability, accomplished following decades of difficult policy implementation and associated political negotiation. Countless analysts attribute Chile's success to Pinochet's complete freedom during his dictatorship to implement any economic policy his team wanted, regardless of any resulting social pain and disruption. However, claiming only 'right-wing' administrations can implement economic liberalization programs is absurd.

Populists have their days counted in Latin America, no matter what the Alberto Fernandez'es-of-the-world, or the AMLO's of-the-world claim. Objective realism, NOT the 'magical realism' of legendary authors, Gabriel Garcia Marquez and Borges, is the name of the game now in Latin America. Strongmen, nationalists, and economic populists do NOT have a good track record enhancing prosperity and development.

The best part is the username. In this section we have Oswald Spengler, Robespierre, and Diogenes the Realist.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2019, 02:42:52 PM by curly »

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1153 on: October 28, 2019, 02:41:52 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

watching Chilean capitalism burn :aah
in california, capitalism burns you!  ;)
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benjipwns

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1155 on: October 28, 2019, 07:48:59 PM »
Quote
Did Emma Sulkowicz Get Redpilled?
Quote from: first paragraph
"This story starts with me being on Tinder,” Emma Sulkowicz explains. “I don’t have TV, so all I can do is swipe left and right on men.” It’s mid-afternoon, and we’re in a deserted Vietnamese restaurant in downtown Manhattan, near the on-ramp to the Williamsburg Bridge. Sulkowicz is telling me about the “political journey” she’s lately been on, a listening tour of ideological positions that she’s always considered too right-wing to engage: centrists, conservatives, libertarians, and whatever Jordan Peterson is — various and sundry souls that Jezebel has canceled, whose names chill dinner conversation across progressive New York. Sulkowicz hasn’t been redpilled; she’s still a feminist and an advocate for survivors of sexual assault. What’s changed is her posture. “Even if I disagree with this person,” she says, “it doesn’t have to piss me off.”
well, that was a freebee

comments
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All these ‘new friends’ just happen to be conservative and libertarian men who have mansplained the meaning of true happiness to her ( it no longer involves blue hair or art, but does involve the National Review) If you can’t beat em, join em, I guess? just so long as her privileged little ass stays on the radar, even as a mascot. At least she’s still trendily gender-fluid so she can keep her hand in if she decides that proclaiming this all a troll is more lucrative and personally beneficial. How nice to have the privilege for all this!
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By the way, Emma, most of us who gained much success in adulthood (raising hand) didn't wait until the age of 27 to "make some decisions for myself and decide what kind of adult I want to be." Good luck. You'll need it. Meantime, better find a day job.
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She wasn't able to translate her activism and porn into her preferred career in left wing advocacy. So now she's a free agent seeing who else she can front so she doesn't have to work for a living.
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And so what? What present context makes this person’s pedestrian philosophical enquiry of possible interest to anyone beyond her social/professional circle? She has made no recent art, written no book, is not running for office. Add that the opinions given are neither deep or revelatory...WHY?

#reclaimingmytime
:yikes
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shosta

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1156 on: October 28, 2019, 07:52:35 PM »
Quote
last month, she started a full-time, four-year master’s program in traditional Chinese medicine

looks like more than one of us is going back to school!  :heart
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OnlyRegret

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1157 on: October 28, 2019, 09:48:57 PM »
someone be COPING about their eyes

https://twitter.com/salesses/status/1186321878954237953

pull yourself up by your white privilege bootstraps you dirty po*r

https://twitter.com/MorganJerkins/status/1186298890611580930

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1158 on: October 28, 2019, 09:53:59 PM »

benjipwns

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1159 on: October 28, 2019, 09:58:14 PM »
First tweet made me think more about how much literature is printed on WHITE paper reinforcing the notion that people of color are imposing themselves on the natural state of the "page" like the text does.



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benjipwns

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1163 on: October 29, 2019, 02:00:17 AM »
I just read those two PMC pieces and I have to say I had an annoying benji smirk at all the talk about the idea of a new class being discovered in late 1970s by the Ehrenreichs and "neoconservatives" even if Press did manage to mention James Burnham at one point in a question that also involved Richard Spencer and Tucker Carlson.

Bakunin and Marx literally argued about it at the First. Michels was so fond of his iron law that he became a fascist to help implement it. Popper and Hayek independently came up with their own version of the idea in about the same year and so convinced Keynes it was one of the few things he admitted to changing his mind on. Eisenhower's "-industrial complex" speech is arguably about the emerging PMC. Just none of them discussed it in a Marxist format, especially adhering to the Rule of Two as discovered in the prophetic visions, so the Left ignored it for decades especially when the Party Line was in force, even when Dilas wrote a book literally named it cribbing Trotsky he adhered to the rule. (Although to be fair he was largely describing the Soviet and Yugoslav experiences. And he totally was not Party Line.) "Neoconservatives" were coming into the same ideas at the same time because they were coming out of the same failure to launch that kneecapped The New Left for so long.

Also the end of that first article (chasm) was kinda wild at how many words it used to avoid saying "if not Sanders, we must get Warren" specifically. Also the multiple steps pairing down the disparate class interests and conflicts to fit into one large class with a single universal goal (shockingly "the end of human capital") was enjoyable. Was most disappointed in the lack of analysis regarding the colonialism involved in the Sanders and Warren campaigns holding events in places that once were Native American lands along with the refusal of the working class (either PMC or not) to understand their role in this continued exploitation and the necessity of immediate revolution until which they cannot be considered true allies of the actual revolutionary proletariat.

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1164 on: October 29, 2019, 02:40:47 AM »
Eisenhower's "-industrial complex" speech is arguably about the emerging PMC.

no it's not

benjipwns

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1165 on: October 29, 2019, 02:51:01 AM »
Of course it can be examined that way unless you intend to discard that entire section:
Quote from: Dwight D. Eisenhower
Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.

In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.

Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.

The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present and is gravely to be regarded. Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientifictechnological elite.

It is the task of statesmanship to mold, to balance, and to integrate these and other forces, new and old, within the principles of our democratic system -- ever aiming toward the supreme goals of our free society.

Another factor in maintaining balance involves the element of time. As we peer into society's future, we -- you and I, and our government -- must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering, for our own ease and convenience, the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow.
As she notes, the Ehrenreichs were members of what Eisenhower terms the "scientifictechnological elite" rather than the working class.

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1166 on: October 29, 2019, 02:59:57 AM »
thank you for posting a quote to support my conclusion it is very kind of you

benjipwns

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1167 on: October 29, 2019, 03:05:07 AM »
a quote to support my conclusion

no it's not

curly

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1168 on: October 29, 2019, 03:36:22 AM »
I'd have to read Ehrenreich more to be certain of this but it seems to me that Eisenhower's "scientifictechnological elite" would certainly be a part of the PMC, but only a part, and Eisenhower wasn't talking about the broader class grouping in the way she was (which tbf is so broad that it's hard to hold together). And perhaps most importantly is that Ehrenreich is framing this group in terms of how it functions within and contributes to the reproduction of capitalism, which Eisenhower wasn't. Of course it isn't a truly novel concept but I sort of doubt Ehrenreich is really claiming that she went on safari and made contact with this previously undiscovered tribe of managers, academics, engineers, etc.

benjipwns

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1169 on: October 29, 2019, 03:55:53 AM »
Ehrenreich isn't saying it, but both authors work via the assumption because their canon (and focus) is internal Left spaces. Eisenhower's intent and framing is of course not close to the same, nor were the others I mentioned, but the emergence of a "new class" with increasing power in the post-war periods was a heavy focus, but like everything else, the "mainstream" of elite thought didn't really care* until the upheavels of the 1960s and 1970s when it suddenly noticed that people still had problems. Ehrenreich mentions this in her very first anecdote in which the professors didn't notice until well after the working class members. Academia and journalism's experience came in extremely different circumstances and on common ones through different approaches on things like civil rights, than did the white working class' major changes through inflation, the rise of Germany/Japan and then civil rights from their side.

I think the one piece does harm to its own argument about the class similarities when it spends so much time noting that the PMC must suffer economically and essentially fall out of the class entirely to achieve solidarity with the working class and then somehow then convince the remaining members of the threat to their own well-being despite having remained in the class. There's way too many steps to both uphold and then also at the same time try to downplay the PMC theory in the same way it concedes the irrelevance of electoral politics while spending all its time on two small fractions of one larger party in electoral politics.

*
Eisenhower's speech, to maintain the cowardly obsessive's focus on what was a popular example of the commonality of a concept in the era, was seen as a weird last message from a possibly senile man rather than a relevant and respected analysis or even the common sense that it became in many circles by the time his Vice President was President... it wasn't until the 1990s that Eisenhower began to be rated as anything above a poor President who just golfed by most historians. By then it was accepted as a prescient warning.
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« Last Edit: October 29, 2019, 04:02:43 AM by benjipwns »

shosta

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1170 on: October 29, 2019, 10:07:19 AM »
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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1171 on: October 29, 2019, 11:38:29 AM »


Blue on Black   -->>>> Can't read shit
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shosta

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1172 on: October 29, 2019, 01:25:02 PM »
pretty easy to do when bernie is also a capitalist :smug

TOP OF THE PAGE, BITCHESSSSS
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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1173 on: October 29, 2019, 02:19:58 PM »
how to come out to your family as bernisexual and where your penchant for the blood of minorities came from

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1174 on: October 29, 2019, 02:38:53 PM »
I think benji is right that these two claims:
- that it's necessary to pursue the PMC's support as a class (and not just the skillset of its individual members) and
- that the PMC's primary motivation is its own aspirations of self-preservation and, yes, control
are fundamentally at odds with one another and so it's worth asking if solidarity is even possible.

Yeah, curly, the "scientifictechnological elite" is only a part of the class in question but isolating it specifically points out some of the contradictions in the concept/strategy. For one thing, the ideal society for this class is the technocratic/meritocratic ideal, one where they are no longer subservient to finance capital for survival but are still the Masters of Everything and justly compensated. I think Seattle is the perfect microcosm of technocracy - you could replace Jeff Bezos with a democratically bureaucratically controlled Gosbank and it would still be the same hell... but everyone is technically "proletariat" now so revolution achieved :smug

The appeal to a "slowly disappearing" professional class is a fruitless effort because it's not slowly disappearing - some jobs are falling into ruin but new and different careers are coming into view all the time. The amount of highly paid professionals is exploding, just look at the change in income distribution over time (and for everyone else, the main issue is not income but cost of living caused by housing shortages). This has inherent limitations like the wealth-inequality stagnation rot the global economy is suffering from right now but the professional class views the bourgeois law of distribution as a just order and it will never not view it that way. What Barbara sees as class allies are really only the ones that are in frequent contact with the despoiled masses (the nurses, the journalists, teachers, social workers, gamers and so on) and it's this direct interaction that makes them allies, not their tenuous membership of a withering middle class. The bankers, tech workers, engineers, and professional managers have everything to lose and nothing to gain from socialism (specifically: there would be more people employed in these professions but their incomes would take a huge hit). That is what makes them the new reactionary middle class, just like the petty artisan was.



to undermine myself a little, and since we're all contributing historical visions of societal development through new-class analysis (dialectics really is immortal science :rejoice), Schumpeter also noticed something like this and predicted that capitalism produces an army of intellectuals* that is increasingly hostile to the capitalist order and is also self-proletarianizing because there are too fucking many of them, so it would be this vanguard of resentfuls that would inevitably overthrow capitalism. He's pretty condescending about this in chapter 8 of his book though, this is what I meant when I told jake that there were people who were committed to a historical materialist argument for socialism but not the moral argument for communism per se. :lol

* he meant this in the very broad sense that people in the 20th century are very educated, they have enough leisure time to reflect on society, and they can express and publicize their resentments. he didn't mean academic intellectuals of staggering intelligence like jordan peterson.



as for this:
even when Dilas wrote a book literally named it cribbing Trotsky he adhered to the rule. (Although to be fair he was largely describing the Soviet and Yugoslav experiences. And he totally was not Party Line.)
it's kind of funny that you can give Dilas a pass on making a class analysis specific to stalinist bureaucratic socialism but you won't give the same leeway to barbs doing it for post-war western capitalism. as kara once warned you, this might be a stumbling block for your career in contrarian shitposting...
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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1176 on: October 29, 2019, 04:47:57 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)

I don't get it. Is the feeling on the left caused by the word on the right? Like X person's exhaustion is caused by Capitalism fatigue?

shosta

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1177 on: October 29, 2019, 05:04:25 PM »




:rofl
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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1178 on: October 29, 2019, 05:06:25 PM »
NYT Opinion Page is peak boomer.
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curly

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1179 on: October 29, 2019, 08:48:13 PM »
Because the PMC is all the rage in these parts, here's Ehrenreich's original essay outlining the term (or part one of it at least):

https://library.brown.edu/pdfs/1125403552886481.pdf

Reading it made me think about the recent wave of teacher strikes, and how they are pitched as (and probably treated favorably because of) being in the public interest.

Also: how the PMC/petty booj split really perfectly describes the divide in the middle class between Republicans and Democrats.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2019, 08:54:20 PM by curly »

benjipwns

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1180 on: October 29, 2019, 09:11:44 PM »
it's kind of funny that you can give Dilas a pass on making a class analysis specific to stalinist bureaucratic socialism but you won't give the same leeway to barbs doing it for post-war western capitalism
Two points, in order of least important to most important: First, I didn't criticize Ehrenreich specifically for doing this, I criticized the American-Western Left for resisting (and both Press and the author of the N+1 piece for perpetuating) any analysis that didn't subscribe to it. The Ehrenreich's wavered on how to place it but (and as she notes in the interview) were ultimately writing for a Left audience and so conformed their analysis. Second, Dilas lived inside an authoritarian system that suppressed his work and then imprisoned him for like 10-15 years as a "dissident" and only let him write on toilet paper for years AND he was originally writing like 25 years before the Enhrenreich's and "neoconservatives" discovered the New Class for Left canon. They lived in somewhat better circumstances.

My main point of criticism and I see now that I wasn't really clear on this, is that both articles to me came off as still somewhat living in the past because they're still going back to Enhenreich and the PMC as the foundational text. Going to her for the interview was totally fine, but I think part of the blinder they're making (or at least the N+1 author was) in their piece about this supposed "natural alliance" is that they're continuing to try and construct it as "one big happy pile of six billion workers" and the evil ten capitalists and that the PMC's work propping up the system stems entirely from their own exploitation and not their own, new, class interests that diverge from both the traditional white working class and the .1% capitalist class. Not to mention what I consider a multitude of other classes.

There was a piece that I can't find now from a left-anarchist of semi-libertarian bent from around the Occupy era asking if today, should "we" (aka the proletariat) see MUTLI-MILLIONAIRES as allies because you can be someone who works all your life for someone else and basically never really own more than your house and so on, yet become a millionaire quite easily. One example given was I think a good PMC "case" a lawyer who works for a corporate law firm but never becomes a partner. Law firms today employ thousands of these people, they will never become partners, they will never start their own law firm, they rarely take cases of their own accord, they aren't only working for the law firm partner but the corporate partner who is likely some billion dollar corporation fighting with another billion dollar corporation. Instinctively no one would ever consider them an exploited class. And certainly not part of the proletariat.

The N+1 piece does some amusing stuff with this when talking about medical workers, then constantly stopping at nurses, because "doctors" of course never would seem like an employee. But in today's medical system they certainly can be and spend their whole lives in that position much like the lawyer example. The tension does come, as you note, from the point where you're basically either forever kicking these people out until they drop in absolute terms economically, or you're writing in people so broad as to make the terms ultimately useless. The argument was double amusing in that they were doing it to basically say "it's fine to vote for Elizabeth Warren ya know" but, to bring it back around to the interview with Ehrenreich, they're writing for a "Left" audience so they had to throw in three hundred pages of gibberish framed as class analysis.

Mandark

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1181 on: October 29, 2019, 09:21:27 PM »
you might think doctors wouldn't be interested in radical direct action, but it was a doctor who kicked the shit outta rand paul

benjipwns

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1182 on: October 29, 2019, 09:22:25 PM »
Rand Paul being a doctor himself, INNER CLASS CONFLICT :ufup

Mandark

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1183 on: October 29, 2019, 09:23:41 PM »
rand paul's not a real doctor, he calls himself that as a nickname like his dad and dr j

benjipwns

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1184 on: October 29, 2019, 09:25:11 PM »
look I'd agree with you on Rand, but his dad is totally a real doctor, OB-GYN, was the only doctor who could deliver babies in the area for a long time that's how he infected all the members of his district at birth with vaccines so they'd vote for him

curly

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1185 on: October 29, 2019, 09:26:49 PM »
it's kind of funny that you can give Dilas a pass on making a class analysis specific to stalinist bureaucratic socialism but you won't give the same leeway to barbs doing it for post-war western capitalism
The N+1 piece does some amusing stuff with this when talking about medical workers, then constantly stopping at nurses, because "doctors" of course never would seem like an employee. But in today's medical system they certainly can be and spend their whole lives in that position much like the lawyer example.

Gonna call bullshit on this one

The n+1 piece focuses on nurses because they're part of the devalued cohort of the PMC that is becoming radicalized politically. Doctors are largely ignored because they're more secure (although still part of the fabled PMC as the author states in their opening paragraphs) and less susceptible to forming an alliance with the working class.

Also think you're missing the point about the author trying to force a supposed "natural alliance" between the downwardly mobile elements of the PMC and workers as a whole--it's not about collapsing them into a single class identity, it's about creating a coalition of distinct social groupings with enough in common to contest power and achieve political hegemony.  That alliance isn't an inevitable fact of history, but contingent on the efforts of those involved.

benjipwns

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1186 on: October 29, 2019, 09:30:56 PM »
The working class is going to betray them for Romney-Gabbard.

Mandark

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1187 on: October 29, 2019, 09:35:51 PM »
would be weird to write a piece about the current state of organizing from the left in the US and not shout out teachers and nurses

benjipwns

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1188 on: October 31, 2019, 02:25:39 PM »
I'm triggered that he used an image from The DENNIS System and not from the episode in which they create a self-sustaining economy like Dave & Busters.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
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« Last Edit: October 31, 2019, 02:34:34 PM by benjipwns »

jakefromstatefarm

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1189 on: October 31, 2019, 02:29:18 PM »
There aren’t any good options for hardcover. used copies of the serviceable A.V. Miller translation in paperback are relatively cheap but apparently the bindings horrible. The di Giovanni is effectively the standard English edition right now and there’s a pdf of it you can google. You won’t get anything out of the science of logic if you don’t also read a good amount of the secondary literature too. Which means you’re gonna need to become conversant in the different camps of Hegel interpretation (there’s really only two or three you need to especially worry about with the science of logic). the encyclopedia logic is just the science of logic in outline for his students so starting there would be a good idea. but definitely read the sep entry on Hegel if you haven’t already. And skim the one on idealism.

jakefromstatefarm

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1190 on: October 31, 2019, 03:00:30 PM »
Beiser’s book on German idealism is great and his routledge one on Hegel is a great entry point. I was gonna recommend both before you mentioned them. Pinkards one on German idealism and a couple of the chapters in his Hegel biography (which should also be a pdf somewhere last time I checked) are a good balance to beisers more metaphysical reading. The intro to the di Giovanni is also a good look into the anti-metaphysical reading (but his is a little idiosyncratic).

Crash Dummy

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1191 on: October 31, 2019, 04:07:52 PM »
seconding rec on beiser, iirc it does a good job covering kant too though it's like 800 pages, pinkards book is half that

Crash Dummy

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1192 on: October 31, 2019, 04:09:47 PM »
this reminds me, i want to get deleuze's book on kant

jakefromstatefarm

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1193 on: October 31, 2019, 04:38:01 PM »
Also, beiser’s German Idealism explicitly doesn’t cover Hegel, fyi. There are also some relevant Cambridge companions and histories that’d be pretty useful too. Don’t buy them though. go through a library.

shosta

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1194 on: October 31, 2019, 10:42:59 PM »
Quote from: SCMP
Shenzhen is experimenting with a “party and technology” development model as it aims to become a “socialist model city”. The city, which is known for its technology industry, was told by Beijing in August to find “the best modern governance practices that promote high quality and sustainable development so it can be held up as an example of civilised society of law and order where people enjoy a high degree of satisfaction”.

“We will be the world’s first modern powerhouse not built on the road of capitalism, but by practising socialism with Chinese characteristics. The leadership of the Communist Party of China is the most essential feature of socialism with Chinese characteristics.”
Ok... what does that mean?

Quote
Speaking on the sidelines of the recent World Internet Conference in Wuzhen in Zhejiang province, a Shenzhen official, who declined to be identified because he is not authorised to speak on the issue, said the city began its big data and smart city plan in 2013.

The goal then was “collecting as much data as possible, and mining the data deeply to provide useful information to leaders for the management of any potential risks and the provision of public services for people’s convenience”, he said.

“This is one of our most concrete answers to the leadership’s call to modernise our governance system and capability.”

Shenzhen established a Government Services and Data Management Bureau to handle big data collection and analysis in February, he said.

As well as data sets covering populations and the economy, the official said Shenzhen had also built “thematic databases” that could empower officials who handled social disputes and public grievances.

As party of the city’s plan, Shenzhen also launched its “Weaving Net Project” in 2013 under which it divided the city into thousands of data zones and designated an “information collector” to each zone.

The system also uses 2 million surveillance cameras dotted about the city.

Li Shihua, head of the video division of the city’s public security bureau, said at a forum in August that big data and video analysis were widely used.

“About 80 per cent of criminal cases are solved with the help of video surveillance. Almost all criminal cases can be solved in 24 or 48 hours with the help of these technologies,” he said.
Ah, I understand now. Socialism is about mass monitoring of the civilian population.

Quote
Shenzhen is also the first Chinese city to launch a “party building measurement indicator” backed by big data and artificial intelligence. Hu Jin, who runs the project said: “Now we have a standardised, scientific and quantifiable method for measuring the quality of party building.”
:science

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team filler

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1195 on: November 02, 2019, 02:21:19 PM »
*****


Crash Dummy

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1197 on: November 06, 2019, 03:47:44 AM »
cry with me kara https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/when-tax-strategies-become-problematic-for-firms-and-investors/
Quote
One of my best anecdotes [came while I was] presenting this paper in an academic setting. There had been a managerial accountant in the room. She had done some cost accounting and said, “We had one manufacturing facility that had 42 different cost centers in it only for tax planning purposes. The cost centers could facilitate the transfer pricing and where goods and what costs went.” That was not only international, but also for state-level purposes and generating certain tax credits. What this paper is trying to capture is all that complexity that goes on merely for getting a good tax [rate].

shosta

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1198 on: November 06, 2019, 01:17:01 PM »
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ne8ydm/brexit-is-helping-revive-republican-violence-in-northern-ireland
Quote
But the political violence that once defined the movement began to rear its ugly head again in 2012, when a paramilitary group calling itself the New IRA emerged, seeking to unite dissident Republicans under a single banner, and referring to themselves simply as the IRA. They have steadily grown since, absorbing members of other dissident groups into the fold while launching more and more attacks.

Key to their growth, experts warn, is Saoradh, an upstart political party out of Derry.

Just over a mile from where McKee was murdered, a uniform row of red-brick residential houses is broken by the green and white of Junior McDaid House that comprises Saoradh’s headquarters.

Formed in 2016, the group bills itself a political answer for those who feel abandoned by Sinn Féin, the left-wing Irish Republican party, and are still suffering from poverty and alienation.

“We felt the need for a vacuum to be filled,” Paddy Gallagher, Saoradh’s 27-year-old national press officer, told VICE News.

The group claims to provide a welfare assistance program to help those struggling to get government benefits. It collects food donations and distributes them to locals in need. It even established a youth wing, called Éistigí, in a bid to recruit teenagers looking for help.
:phil

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote
The Police Service of Northern Ireland, meanwhile, have called their headquarters in Derry “the mouth and the hub” of the New IRA.

"People can think what they like,” Gallagher told VICE News, in a room filled with replica firearms and military uniforms. “Saoradh has stated multiple times that we have absolutely no link to the Irish Republican Army.”

But the murals that cover Junior McDaid House appear to undercut the group’s claims. On the outside of the very building where Gallagher uttered these words, there's a mural that simply says: “Join the IRA.”
:dead
[close]
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shosta

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1199 on: November 06, 2019, 11:22:09 PM »
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/oct/31/bat-faces-landmark-legal-case-over-malawi-families-poverty-wages
Quote
Human rights lawyers are preparing to bring a landmark case against British American Tobacco on behalf of hundreds of children and their families forced by poverty wages to work in conditions of gruelling hard labour in the fields of Malawi.

Leigh Day’s lawyers are seeking compensation for more than 350 child labourers and their parents in the high court in London, arguing that the British company is guilty of “unjust enrichment”. Leigh Day says it anticipates the number of child labourer claimants to rise as high as 15,000. While BAT claims it has told farmers not to use their children as unpaid labour, the lawyers say the families cannot afford to work their fields otherwise, because they receive so little money for their crop.

The case, potentially one of the biggest that human rights lawyers have ever brought, could transform the lives of children in poor countries who are forced to work to survive not only in tobacco but also in other industries such as the garment trade.

striking the heart of the capitalist core :phil :phil :phil
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