Author Topic: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.  (Read 289438 times)

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OnlyRegret

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #960 on: October 29, 2019, 02:19:58 PM »
how to come out to your family as bernisexual and where your penchant for the blood of minorities came from


EchoRin

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #962 on: October 29, 2019, 04:47:57 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)

I don't get it. Is the feeling on the left caused by the word on the right? Like X person's exhaustion is caused by Capitalism fatigue?

Great Rumbler

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #963 on: October 29, 2019, 05:06:25 PM »
NYT Opinion Page is peak boomer.
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curly

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #964 on: October 29, 2019, 08:48:13 PM »
Because the PMC is all the rage in these parts, here's Ehrenreich's original essay outlining the term (or part one of it at least):

https://library.brown.edu/pdfs/1125403552886481.pdf

Reading it made me think about the recent wave of teacher strikes, and how they are pitched as (and probably treated favorably because of) being in the public interest.

Also: how the PMC/petty booj split really perfectly describes the divide in the middle class between Republicans and Democrats.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2019, 08:54:20 PM by curly »

benjipwns

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #965 on: October 29, 2019, 09:11:44 PM »
it's kind of funny that you can give Dilas a pass on making a class analysis specific to stalinist bureaucratic socialism but you won't give the same leeway to barbs doing it for post-war western capitalism
Two points, in order of least important to most important: First, I didn't criticize Ehrenreich specifically for doing this, I criticized the American-Western Left for resisting (and both Press and the author of the N+1 piece for perpetuating) any analysis that didn't subscribe to it. The Ehrenreich's wavered on how to place it but (and as she notes in the interview) were ultimately writing for a Left audience and so conformed their analysis. Second, Dilas lived inside an authoritarian system that suppressed his work and then imprisoned him for like 10-15 years as a "dissident" and only let him write on toilet paper for years AND he was originally writing like 25 years before the Enhrenreich's and "neoconservatives" discovered the New Class for Left canon. They lived in somewhat better circumstances.

My main point of criticism and I see now that I wasn't really clear on this, is that both articles to me came off as still somewhat living in the past because they're still going back to Enhenreich and the PMC as the foundational text. Going to her for the interview was totally fine, but I think part of the blinder they're making (or at least the N+1 author was) in their piece about this supposed "natural alliance" is that they're continuing to try and construct it as "one big happy pile of six billion workers" and the evil ten capitalists and that the PMC's work propping up the system stems entirely from their own exploitation and not their own, new, class interests that diverge from both the traditional white working class and the .1% capitalist class. Not to mention what I consider a multitude of other classes.

There was a piece that I can't find now from a left-anarchist of semi-libertarian bent from around the Occupy era asking if today, should "we" (aka the proletariat) see MUTLI-MILLIONAIRES as allies because you can be someone who works all your life for someone else and basically never really own more than your house and so on, yet become a millionaire quite easily. One example given was I think a good PMC "case" a lawyer who works for a corporate law firm but never becomes a partner. Law firms today employ thousands of these people, they will never become partners, they will never start their own law firm, they rarely take cases of their own accord, they aren't only working for the law firm partner but the corporate partner who is likely some billion dollar corporation fighting with another billion dollar corporation. Instinctively no one would ever consider them an exploited class. And certainly not part of the proletariat.

The N+1 piece does some amusing stuff with this when talking about medical workers, then constantly stopping at nurses, because "doctors" of course never would seem like an employee. But in today's medical system they certainly can be and spend their whole lives in that position much like the lawyer example. The tension does come, as you note, from the point where you're basically either forever kicking these people out until they drop in absolute terms economically, or you're writing in people so broad as to make the terms ultimately useless. The argument was double amusing in that they were doing it to basically say "it's fine to vote for Elizabeth Warren ya know" but, to bring it back around to the interview with Ehrenreich, they're writing for a "Left" audience so they had to throw in three hundred pages of gibberish framed as class analysis.

Mandark

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #966 on: October 29, 2019, 09:21:27 PM »
you might think doctors wouldn't be interested in radical direct action, but it was a doctor who kicked the shit outta rand paul

benjipwns

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #967 on: October 29, 2019, 09:22:25 PM »
Rand Paul being a doctor himself, INNER CLASS CONFLICT :ufup

Mandark

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #968 on: October 29, 2019, 09:23:41 PM »
rand paul's not a real doctor, he calls himself that as a nickname like his dad and dr j

benjipwns

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #969 on: October 29, 2019, 09:25:11 PM »
look I'd agree with you on Rand, but his dad is totally a real doctor, OB-GYN, was the only doctor who could deliver babies in the area for a long time that's how he infected all the members of his district at birth with vaccines so they'd vote for him

curly

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #970 on: October 29, 2019, 09:26:49 PM »
it's kind of funny that you can give Dilas a pass on making a class analysis specific to stalinist bureaucratic socialism but you won't give the same leeway to barbs doing it for post-war western capitalism
The N+1 piece does some amusing stuff with this when talking about medical workers, then constantly stopping at nurses, because "doctors" of course never would seem like an employee. But in today's medical system they certainly can be and spend their whole lives in that position much like the lawyer example.

Gonna call bullshit on this one

The n+1 piece focuses on nurses because they're part of the devalued cohort of the PMC that is becoming radicalized politically. Doctors are largely ignored because they're more secure (although still part of the fabled PMC as the author states in their opening paragraphs) and less susceptible to forming an alliance with the working class.

Also think you're missing the point about the author trying to force a supposed "natural alliance" between the downwardly mobile elements of the PMC and workers as a whole--it's not about collapsing them into a single class identity, it's about creating a coalition of distinct social groupings with enough in common to contest power and achieve political hegemony.  That alliance isn't an inevitable fact of history, but contingent on the efforts of those involved.

benjipwns

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #971 on: October 29, 2019, 09:30:56 PM »
The working class is going to betray them for Romney-Gabbard.

Mandark

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #972 on: October 29, 2019, 09:35:51 PM »
would be weird to write a piece about the current state of organizing from the left in the US and not shout out teachers and nurses

benjipwns

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #973 on: October 31, 2019, 02:25:39 PM »
I'm triggered that he used an image from The DENNIS System and not from the episode in which they create a self-sustaining economy like Dave & Busters.

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« Last Edit: October 31, 2019, 02:34:34 PM by benjipwns »

jakefromstatefarm

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #974 on: October 31, 2019, 02:29:18 PM »
There aren’t any good options for hardcover. used copies of the serviceable A.V. Miller translation in paperback are relatively cheap but apparently the bindings horrible. The di Giovanni is effectively the standard English edition right now and there’s a pdf of it you can google. You won’t get anything out of the science of logic if you don’t also read a good amount of the secondary literature too. Which means you’re gonna need to become conversant in the different camps of Hegel interpretation (there’s really only two or three you need to especially worry about with the science of logic). the encyclopedia logic is just the science of logic in outline for his students so starting there would be a good idea. but definitely read the sep entry on Hegel if you haven’t already. And skim the one on idealism.

jakefromstatefarm

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #975 on: October 31, 2019, 03:00:30 PM »
Beiser’s book on German idealism is great and his routledge one on Hegel is a great entry point. I was gonna recommend both before you mentioned them. Pinkards one on German idealism and a couple of the chapters in his Hegel biography (which should also be a pdf somewhere last time I checked) are a good balance to beisers more metaphysical reading. The intro to the di Giovanni is also a good look into the anti-metaphysical reading (but his is a little idiosyncratic).

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #976 on: October 31, 2019, 04:07:52 PM »
seconding rec on beiser, iirc it does a good job covering kant too though it's like 800 pages, pinkards book is half that

Crash Dummy

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #977 on: October 31, 2019, 04:09:47 PM »
this reminds me, i want to get deleuze's book on kant

jakefromstatefarm

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #978 on: October 31, 2019, 04:38:01 PM »
Also, beiser’s German Idealism explicitly doesn’t cover Hegel, fyi. There are also some relevant Cambridge companions and histories that’d be pretty useful too. Don’t buy them though. go through a library.

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #979 on: November 02, 2019, 02:21:19 PM »
*****


Crash Dummy

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #981 on: November 06, 2019, 03:47:44 AM »
cry with me kara https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/when-tax-strategies-become-problematic-for-firms-and-investors/
Quote
One of my best anecdotes [came while I was] presenting this paper in an academic setting. There had been a managerial accountant in the room. She had done some cost accounting and said, “We had one manufacturing facility that had 42 different cost centers in it only for tax planning purposes. The cost centers could facilitate the transfer pricing and where goods and what costs went.” That was not only international, but also for state-level purposes and generating certain tax credits. What this paper is trying to capture is all that complexity that goes on merely for getting a good tax [rate].

benjipwns

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OnlyRegret

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #984 on: November 08, 2019, 11:15:07 PM »
needing to one up the leftist stack by shitting on Hong Kongers to stick it to Americans  :thinking

https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitLiberalsSay/comments/dtq6z5/hong_kong_terrorists_using_americans_as/

benjipwns

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #985 on: November 08, 2019, 11:22:32 PM »
wow, how could you bernard

https://twitter.com/KevinKlawitter/status/1192436969650831360
Just learned I'm possibly right-of-center on immigration.

benjipwns

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #986 on: November 08, 2019, 11:28:02 PM »
Ya, but I would have voted against "immigration reform" in 2007 too, wouldn't "abolish" ICE (rename it back to INS and return it back out of DHS), and probably would have said something similar to whatever Bernie actually said in the latter two examples.

benjipwns

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #987 on: November 08, 2019, 11:28:52 PM »
Plus Julian Castro is just a front for BIG TWIN interests.

OnlyRegret

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #988 on: November 09, 2019, 12:24:32 AM »
komrades, today we purge the poor and fix racism by killing racists

https://web.archive.org/web/20191106195740/https:/twitter.com/JacksonKernion/status/1191916100402872320?s=20

https://twitter.com/the_moviebob/status/1191555663945707520

I just find his bloodlust a bit entertaining after this oldie



« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 12:34:43 AM by OnlyRegret »

benjipwns

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #989 on: November 09, 2019, 12:42:43 AM »
The Movie Blob has a long history of supporting eugenics.

team filler

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #990 on: November 09, 2019, 01:03:40 AM »
*****

Mandark

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #991 on: November 09, 2019, 10:18:03 AM »
Sanders voted against the 2007 bill on explicitly protectionist grounds, and he's described "open borders" as being a trojan horse pushed by the Koch brothers.

My sense is that he mostly took the traditional position of US labor groups on immigration (viewing it as putting downward pressure on the wages of Americans) and as they shifted left so did he. If Kara (pbuh) were with us, he'd have a quip about the labor aristocracy.

OnlyRegret

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #992 on: November 11, 2019, 08:34:58 PM »
she is back with more fire for the bernouts

https://twitter.com/queerBengali/status/1194026845651558407

curly

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #993 on: November 14, 2019, 01:26:07 AM »
damn dude you do drugs and have sex? that's pretty crazy

Mandark

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #994 on: November 14, 2019, 01:55:30 AM »
On left twitter, sex work brings out more scorchingly hot takes than anything besides maybe MENA politics.

OnlyRegret

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #995 on: November 14, 2019, 02:29:44 AM »
they also had a tweet playing off disabled prostitutes as being a good thing, radfem reddit was where I saw it

in any case, w/e some of these people are too repulsive to bother thinking about

BIONIC

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #996 on: November 14, 2019, 08:27:54 AM »
Purge the Brooklyn community. The hogs have become feral and need to be culled. :camby

Margs

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #997 on: November 15, 2019, 05:02:19 PM »
 :salute
©@©™

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #998 on: November 15, 2019, 09:34:30 PM »
https://hilaryagro.wordpress.com/2019/10/22/marxism-is-amphetamines-biopolitics-is-cocaine-social-science-theories-as-drugs/

Quote
Marxism is amphetamines. Needed to survive, it keeps you going on a daily basis. Without it, you feel exhausted and confused, and eat too much. It makes you want to get up out of your chair and get shit DONE. Works best when blended with others to take the edge off.

 :pitbull
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BIONIC

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Tripon

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Great Rumbler

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OnlyRegret

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1006 on: November 18, 2019, 02:48:56 AM »
demanding Felix Biederman name four women he actually likes :lol

the best fans are the ones who have a love/hate relationship with the material. get over it!

full of dweebs, if only I cared to use reddit enough to join the cool boys at Nick Mullen's secret place

edit: I realized the context that was a bit of that exchange
missing the original comment by Bruenig which seems to have been deleted, dug around to give some context

« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 03:03:19 AM by OnlyRegret »

OnlyRegret

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Mandark

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1008 on: November 18, 2019, 09:49:34 PM »
The WASBAPPIN account somehow stands out for having terminal poster brain, even on Twitter.

Kara

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1010 on: November 21, 2019, 12:27:58 AM »
go raidahs!
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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1011 on: November 21, 2019, 01:37:24 AM »
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Cerveza mas fina

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1012 on: November 21, 2019, 05:02:58 AM »
What government has she overthrown

Tripon

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1013 on: November 21, 2019, 09:01:39 AM »
What government has she overthrown

She's still part of the United States, so uh, maybe Bolivia.

Kara

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1014 on: November 21, 2019, 01:21:27 PM »
Now, now, let's have some basic respect here.



spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Jeremy Corbyn is antisemitic campaign is shaking loose all sorts of stuff.
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Mandark

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1015 on: November 21, 2019, 01:26:39 PM »
spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Jeremy Corbyn is antisemitic campaign is shaking loose all sorts of stuff.
[close]

The most racist person I know in real life currently has "#Together Against Antisemitism" (yes there's a hashtag even though the words are separate) on his FB profile pic.

benjipwns

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1016 on: November 21, 2019, 10:55:22 PM »


that looks about right
There's an apocryphal story of when Dwight Eisenhower, proletariat revolutionary, was President of Columbia that they were going to place sidewalks and there was a testy fight over where exactly to place them. The wise class philosophe President General told them to wait a year, for the students would trample paths in the grass and that is where the sidewalks should be placed.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Even though that story is fake, this actually was the case at some landgrant schools where the campus expansion outpaced standard planning methods. Buildings were built first, and the infrastructure built after, so they generally used already trodden paths for sidewalks and later roads/parking. There were some rather famous crooked routes at either Missouri or Kansas for a long time.

Michigan State like a decade ago had the administration decide that rather than the long existing roads there should be a grid of four roads only that crossed campus (which is the largest size campus in the nation) and these were the only ones needed as all traffic could flow to them via other means, it became such a disaster that they completely tore up and rebuilt the universities entire road and sidewalk system within 18 months of the plan being finished. Only to do it again because rather than have intersections there were only to be roundabouts, but since the roads were so spaced apart the roundabouts were gigantic and thus consume too much of the total size of campus and so...
[close]


Kara

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #1018 on: November 23, 2019, 12:10:36 PM »
Court philosophy always lags a bit, give them time to catch up!

E:  :lol

Quote
One expects a certain institutional lag. Mainstream economists nowadays might not be particularly good at predicting financial crashes, facilitating general prosperity, or coming up with models for preventing climate change, but when it comes to establishing themselves in positions of intellectual authority, unaffected by such failings, their success is unparalleled.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2019, 12:18:17 PM by Kara »