Author Topic: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!  (Read 10646 times)

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bork

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1380 on: June 14, 2019, 03:11:16 PM »
The best E3 will be when Itsuno comes out and reveals Dragon's Dogma 2.  Everything else in life will be piss.   I will buy one of every console, max out my PC and/or subscribe to whatever game streaming service to have that game in my life.  I'll take all the fucks, Zero given.

Dragon's Dogma 2 for N-Gage confirmed!
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Svejk

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1381 on: June 14, 2019, 03:20:06 PM »
The best E3 will be when Itsuno comes out and reveals Dragon's Dogma 2.  Everything else in life will be piss.   I will buy one of every console, max out my PC and/or subscribe to whatever game streaming service to have that game in my life.  I'll take all the fucks, Zero given.

Dragon's Dogma 2 for N-Gage confirmed!
I'll buy 500 of them shits.

Human Snorenado

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1382 on: June 14, 2019, 03:38:08 PM »
Nintendo is a company I feel like you either like their games or you donít.  If you enjoy one Nintendo franchise you probably will enjoy most of them, and if you hate one you will probably hate them all. They have a certain formula and only a few games deviate too far from it. Even if the game plays differently, they all have a light touch on story and are all kid friendly.

Ehhhhhh, here's the thing- I hate plenty of Nintendo games. In fact, I think it would be fair to say that I hate MOST Nintendo games, because most of them ARE kids games with shallow mechanics. They're well made but they're baby shit. Splatoon, Animal Crossing, Mario Party games, etc can all go die in a fucking fire as far as I'm concerned. They make me angry because resources are being used on shit like that instead of shit that I enjoy.

Having said that, I realize that a large part of Nintendo's business model (and it is a successful one) is to appeal to as many different people as they can, ESPECIALLY kids. So while I'd prefer to see a console Fire Emblem every other year or whatever, and more mainline Mario and Zelda games, it's not gonna happen. But that's life, and there's plenty of other shit that I want to play either on Switch or other consoles/pc that it doesn't bother me. The fact that they didn't utterly cheap out on the hardware this time around like they did the Wii U is commendable enough to earn them some goodwill.

tl;dr- not all Nintendo is everyone's cup of tea but for fucks sakes be an adult about it and just play what you want (still shit on the things you hate tho obvs cause this is the internet and that's what it's for)
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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1383 on: June 14, 2019, 03:48:28 PM »
ďBlowing Nintendo since 1986Ē

Fixed :awesome
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Chooky

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1384 on: June 14, 2019, 04:03:31 PM »
i've never encountered anyone who hates nintendo games outside of internet edgelords and contrarians. can you imagine talking to someone who casually games and hearing them say they fucking hate mario and mario kart

Rahxephon91

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1385 on: June 14, 2019, 05:24:37 PM »
And thereís my point, you canít simply not be into Nintendo games without people acting like somethings wrong with you.

When the conversation comes up irl about Smash or Mario whatever. I just politely say Iím not into them.

I find itís the Nintendo fans who get obnoxious about the games.

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1386 on: June 14, 2019, 05:31:47 PM »
you're obnoxious with or without vidya
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Rahxephon91

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1387 on: June 14, 2019, 05:34:48 PM »
Maybe I should be a Nintendo fan then.

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1388 on: June 14, 2019, 05:36:13 PM »
Animal crossingís biggest audience as far as I know are women, not kids. Thatís why Nintendo is great. Nintendo makes something for everyone. Pretty much every female gamer friend I know is looking forward to animal crossing: new horizon. That, or theyíre lgbt. People will talk about how thereís a lack of female game players or lgbt inclusion in games while bad mouthing games like Animal Crossing which are directly aimed at women in the same games like Harvest Moon are.

Itís weird.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 05:41:03 PM by Cindi Mayweather »
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Rahxephon91

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1389 on: June 14, 2019, 05:38:27 PM »
They donít make cinematic action games with ďadultĒ stories.

Edit-You probably meant more along the lines of people more so than the taste. Then yes they do.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 05:44:49 PM by Rahxephon91 »

Tasty Meat

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1390 on: June 14, 2019, 05:46:30 PM »
Nintendo doesn't make <extremely specific genre with eight separate qualifiers>.

It's like they don't even try anymore!
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Rahxephon91

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1391 on: June 14, 2019, 05:53:31 PM »
And yet according to most of you that specific genre can be applied to all Sony/AAA/games you dislike.

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1392 on: June 14, 2019, 06:00:05 PM »
Personally, Rah, neither does Sony.

Your idea of an adult story and my idea seem pretty different.

Uncharted features a man that kills thousands and people are crying about the dude who is basically Indiana Jones. We watched Indiana Jones in daycare at elementary school. Personally, I find these people have a limited definition of an adult story.

To me an adult story is something that has actual adult content, depth, themes, and layers. God of War is not an adult story. Uncharted is not an adult story. Havenít played but I doubt The Last Of Us is an adult story either.

Actual adult stories I can think of in games: Silent Hill 1 and especially 2, Planescape: Torment, Fallout games that arenít 3 (havenít played 4), Tactics Ogre, Max Payne 2, Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines, Valkyrie Profile 1, I think thatís it. Thatís not to say these are the only good stories in games Iíve played. My favorite game story is probably within the Suikoden franchise and Iím not sure Iíd call it adult. I love Final Fantasy VIís story but itís clearly not an adult story. Neither is Final fantasy Xís or even VIIís. Final Fantasy games in particular are aimed specifically at teenagers. I got into FF when I was 12 so the idea that itís adult is laughable to me. MGS is  basically a suped up GI Joe.

Few games have adult stories. What an adult story? Lolita, which is sitting on my bookshelf is. Barry Lyndon. The Shining. Jacobís Ladder. Perfect Blue. Grave of the Fireflies. The Color Purple. Jane Austen shit. Wuthering Heights. Idk, Iím spitballing here.

One thing you learn quickly when developing taste in your late teens and through your 20ís is that nerd shit  != adult shit, with few exceptions.

You talk about Nintendo not making adult stories yet funnily none of the AAA story based games Iíve played in the past decade have matched the literary content of Majoraís Mask.

So thereís that.
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TakingBackSunday

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1393 on: June 14, 2019, 06:00:41 PM »
Man god bless E3 threads
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Don Rumata

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1394 on: June 14, 2019, 06:06:16 PM »
Last of Us is definitely an adult story, just about under any definition you would want to use.
It's got plenty of genre clichŤs, and some gamefied elements are detrimental to it, but you say that for most games with "adult stories" anyway.

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1395 on: June 14, 2019, 06:11:07 PM »
Film:



Here's a story of a 300-400 year old cursed violin that brings tragedy to every one of its owners.

Games:



Here's a story of a man nostalgic for when he had a taste of adventure and gets back into the game.

I mean, story is good and all, but if I want to actually get an adult story it makes no sense to rely on games to achieve this.

Let's not forget that most games necessitate the need for action - or killing - and therefore limit themselves inherently as a storytelling medium because games "need to be fun" as a prerequisite.

Games are a flawed storytelling medium even if there's a few pieces of gold. Go to the Classics section at your local bookstore instead, please.
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Rahxephon91

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1396 on: June 14, 2019, 06:14:42 PM »
I knew you would add blowback to the use of adult and see it as some quality marker. Which is why I put it into apostrophes. You can disagree or agree with the quality or worthiness  of storytelling in games if you want. Iíd rather pass as Iím sure it will come with your patented smugness.

ďOh see you are clearly not as literate as me. I know of Lolita. The book. Now thatís a true adult story, not whatever lowbrow stuff you like. I liked before the famous Kurbuick movie that everyone knows aboutĒ


I donít care. I donít particularly think God of War or Uncharted are anything to write home about. I feel like I was the only one in the GoW thread here that didnít think it was amazing.

But the games are made to appeal to adults and feature adult aesthetics, themes, presentation, and appeal. They are made for adults. You can argue if they are shallow in that appeal, but itís there. And if your someone looking for anything like that, then your not going to find it at Nintendo. Youíll find it at Sony and clearly it has worked for millions of adults who I guess arenít literate enough to see that what they like dosent measure up to Russian novels.

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1397 on: June 14, 2019, 06:34:25 PM »
Why does adult stories even need to be a qualifier for a good game?

Also, tastes should be varied. It's okay to like story-based games, but it makes no sense to not want to play a fun ass platformer every now and then.

I just find it weird.

Your criticism of games and my criticism are on opposite poles. You seem to go after presentation, production values, aesthetics and stories that appeal to you. I go after mechanics and gameplay.

"If a game handholds and limits its player from making decisions it's likely a shit game." - Cindi Proverb

A good game is ultimately decided by how its parts and rules come together. A good story that doesn't make a game good if the gameplay isn't up to par. Some of the best game stories - VN's, adventure games - have shit gameplay. Nintendo happens to have mastered gameplay.

It's not that you don't prefer Nintendo games that's weird. It's the fact you don't like them period. Guarantee the game creators you look up to love Nintendo games. At the end of this, it doesn't sound like your not liking Nintendo has anything to do with preferences or taste but some vendetta of some sort.

For example, most people have preferences. It's normal to prefer 2d Mario over 3d or vice versa. Or maybe preferring Sonic to Mario. It's totally weird, however, to not like Mario period.

« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 06:39:33 PM by Cindi Mayweather »
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riotous

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1398 on: June 14, 2019, 06:38:16 PM »
Itís weird to not like platformers?

Thatís oddly judgmental.

I had SMB memorized front and back as a kid but just donít like the genre anymore.

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1399 on: June 14, 2019, 06:41:17 PM »
Itís weird to not like platformers?

Thatís oddly judgmental.

I had SMB memorized front and back as a kid but just donít like the genre anymore.

There's a difference between not liking them and saying Mario games aren't good games as Rah has said.
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bork

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1400 on: June 14, 2019, 06:46:09 PM »
ďOh see you are clearly not as literate as me. I know of Lolita. The book. Now thatís a true adult story, not whatever lowbrow stuff you like. I liked before the famous Kurbuick movie that everyone knows aboutĒ

Don't get that kind of impression at all from Cindi's reply.  She's just making a point that she doesn't think any of this shit is even close to the story in a good book or film. 

I feel like I was the only one in the GoW thread here that didnít think it was amazing.

Sup! 

But the games are made to appeal to adults and feature adult aesthetics, themes, presentation, and appeal. They are made for adults. You can argue if they are shallow in that appeal, but itís there. And if your someone looking for anything like that, then your not going to find it at Nintendo. Youíll find it at Sony and clearly it has worked for millions of adults who I guess arenít literate enough to see that what they like dosent measure up to Russian novels.

"You know, for kids!"








But yes, they clearly publish more family-oriented games.
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riotous

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1401 on: June 14, 2019, 06:46:20 PM »
Ah gotcha, and yeah I 100% agree with what you have to say about game stories.

Iíd so much rather watch a film or read a book.  Not a put down to people who like story driven games and I do play them from time to time but they have to be gameplay first experiences. 

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1402 on: June 14, 2019, 06:51:54 PM »
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mormapope

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1403 on: June 14, 2019, 06:59:58 PM »
i've never encountered anyone who hates nintendo games outside of internet edgelords and contrarians. can you imagine talking to someone who casually games and hearing them say they fucking hate mario and mario kart

I've never encountered a die hard Nintendo/Smash fan  IRL that wasn't a smelly, forum dweller fuck up.

Its like rolling a pepperoni pizza in body odor and autism.
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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1404 on: June 14, 2019, 07:09:40 PM »
Rah if you just say "I don't like cute shit" and let it end there without trying to write a thinkpiece to justify your sperglord tastes people will just accept it and move on, just sayin

I don't like cute shit either, but I appreciate good gameplay, which is why I play Mario and Zelda. Animal Crossing has no gameplay to speak of, it's just a timesink bullshit mortgage repayment simulator that lets you decorate. Women be decoratin, amirite???

 :kermit
yar

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1405 on: June 14, 2019, 07:12:33 PM »
Let me show you the clothes I designed in Animal Crossing: New Leaf. :uguu
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Cindi Mayweather

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1406 on: June 14, 2019, 07:17:48 PM »








:uguu

I'm looking forward to making clothes in the new Animal Crossing. I hope they open up a shop where you pay people real world money. Someone told some are buying gucci purses and high fashion clothes made by users in some game on Steam. Like 30-50 bucks an item.



Pay me!
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Rahxephon91

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1407 on: June 14, 2019, 07:18:08 PM »
No I said I disliked them. I don't care about them. They are nothing to me. Good or bad, is irrelevant. I have no interests.

Also no one said "adult" was a qualifier for good. What was said was "adult" as a type. A direction. A subject material. Nintendo is not big on games that deal with adult subject matter. Weather it be tone, themes, story, art direction, whatever. Things that skew older. Adult was not used as a term of quality. I don't care if you don't think God of War is as good as film. That dosen't matter. What matters is that at least it tries and plays the part. If you want stuff that plays the part then all you have is a few bones thrown from Nintendo and you should seek elsewhere.

An adult can see and level out the types of stories presented to them. An adult can realize that not everything is on the level of something else. That some stories even if they aren't as highbrow as something else, still have thier merit. An I would say an adult can rationalize that it dosen't even matter.

I like all kinds of games, except platformers. Nintendo dosen't offer the kinds of games I like outside of few examples.

But it is also the Nintendo fan prerogative to think "well clearly you don't care about gameplay". Which sure fine, I don't if also caring about other aspects of a game as a hole meant that.

Vanquish is to one of the best shooters ever. The mechanics and gameplay are top of the line, but so is everything else. The art direction is cool, the way speed is visualized. The general astehtics, style, and presentation of the game bring the game up. Visuals matter. Vanquish would still be a fun shooter if it was stick figures or something, but the way it's presented brings it's weird John Woo by way of powered suit 80s anime style to life. Like wise a game with shitty gameplay like Asura's Warth has amazing art direction, animation, cutscene direction, and a decently told story with heart and a good understanding of older shounen anime stylings that the game has lots of appeal. I love the gameplay of Persona 5, but its personalty that comes though it's music, setting, graphics, menus, ect make it a world above a say Idea Factory game that would maybe play similarly. 

And it's not a "good graphics or else thing". I love Parasite Eve because of the atmosphere it still has and corny New York action thriller by way of the Japanese tone it has. The gameplay is fun, but simple. The game is more then that. Vagrant Story's cutscenes are still top of the line till this day and a marvel to look at. Nier was a cheap looking game, but it's presentation and use of color created a desolate world feeling.

It's not a zero sum game. with me. Games have lots to offer and I can appreciate many aspects of a game and find things interesting and worthwhile even if the gameplay fails. Tales games are fun to play. They are so bland to look at and hear. I dislike them. Zone of the Enders 2 is rather simple in it's gameplay. It fucking looks awesome.  Presentation, production values(which does not 100% mean lots of money or not), art, ect all mater and can improve or break a game. That's how I look at games. Games are an experince. I'm either experiencing interesting mechanics, a cool world, interesting visuals, a neat story, or just a cool journey. Whatever. If the game is handholdy, as long as it's taking me to cool things. I'm happy.

Quote
"You know, for kids!"
Yeah I also bought a Wii U for Bayonetta 2. Maybe I'll get Bayonetta 3 before the Switch is over. Oh boy one game like this every few years.

Devil's Third was hardly released in America and also crap. Fatal Frame V was digital only and in general the series has been worse off in Nintendos hand. At least in America.

Clearly representative of Nintendo's general output.

Don't play Fire Emblem so I know nothing about it. Only played the first one on 3DS briefly.

Sony also put out Knack, Gravity Rush 2, and Shadow Remake. So I guess by your metric, it's not all cinematic shooters either.

Yes they publish some things over now and then that appeal to me. Never said they don't. But Astral Chain and Xenoblade are not the connerstones of Nintendo's brand or lineup. Mario and the like are. If you want to say Sony is just one thing, you have to say Nintendo is just one thing.

"Oh but Xenoblade sells millions".

So do Gran Trusimo and MLB the Show. I guess Sony is also in the sim sports area. Somewhere Nintendo also isn't.


Rahxephon91

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1408 on: June 14, 2019, 07:20:33 PM »
Rah if you just say "I don't like cute shit" and let it end there without trying to write a thinkpiece to justify your sperglord tastes people will just accept it and move on, just sayin


But I don't play Pokemon and Smash Bros.

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Nintex

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1409 on: June 14, 2019, 07:25:39 PM »
You don't have to look far to see just in what way Nintendo is better than most other publishers.

Take Super Mario for example.
For Nintendo the 'classic' Super Mario returns as Super Mario Maker 2. A fun game that allows you to build your own levels and on top of that Koji Kondo returns to do new music.

Now look at Battletoads
It looks ok-ish but is farmed out to some developer and doesn't much resemble Battletoads. Remember when Battletoads was one of those games that really pushed graphics and arcade technology?
Put an AAA+ budget behind it you cowards!

Finally we arrive at Commander Keen. Ugh, just ugh. Bad bethesda, bad.
And also don't forget Contra Rogue Corpse.

Nintendo might be pulling a lot of the same tricks but they deliver most of the time.
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Don Rumata

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1410 on: June 14, 2019, 07:58:07 PM »
Games are a flawed storytelling medium even if there's a few pieces of gold. Go to the Classics section at your local bookstore instead, please.
No, games are a flawed cinematic storytelling medium.
I think there's a big difference.

Films are also a flawed storytelling medium if you use books as a direct comparison and a standard of how a story is told.

The problem is that while films sort of found their language and voice, videogames are still struggling with the idea that a "story" can be told in many different ways than what we're used to, mostly through cinema.

So while i agree with you that cinematic videogames ultimately come off as shittier versions of movies, as far as storytelling is concern, it doesn't speak to the storytelling potential of the medium itself.

And of course examples of this are abundant; environmental storytelling is a classic storytelling tool videogames excel at; another one is designing player agency (to the point where the choice itself is the storytelling) and so on and forth.

Of course if your only tool to tell a story, is to interrupt the player with a cutscene, you're playing the loser's hand.

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1411 on: June 14, 2019, 08:00:29 PM »
Yeah I also bought a Wii U for Bayonetta 2. Maybe I'll get Bayonetta 3 before the Switch is over. Oh boy one game like this every few years.

Devil's Third was hardly released in America and also crap. Fatal Frame V was digital only and in general the series has been worse off in Nintendos hand. At least in America.

Clearly representative of Nintendo's general output.

Don't play Fire Emblem so I know nothing about it. Only played the first one on 3DS briefly.

Sony also put out Knack, Gravity Rush 2, and Shadow Remake. So I guess by your metric, it's not all cinematic shooters either.

Yes they publish some things over now and then that appeal to me. Never said they don't. But Astral Chain and Xenoblade are not the connerstones of Nintendo's brand or lineup. Mario and the like are. If you want to say Sony is just one thing, you have to say Nintendo is just one thing.

"Oh but Xenoblade sells millions".

So do Gran Trusimo and MLB the Show. I guess Sony is also in the sim sports area. Somewhere Nintendo also isn't.

You have nothing but nothing system warriors arguments.

1. You mention Bayonetta and then add a slight "oh boy one of these types of games every few years!" Newsflash: the genre Bayonetta only pops up once every few years. There's only three series that are famous for that type of gameplay: Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, and Ninja Gaiden. DMC was dead for ten years (DmC doesn't count), NG has gone into hibernation. We just got DMCV this year. Bayonetta has kept the torch lit for that particular genre for years, this entire decade in fact. This hints at bias against Nintendo.

2. "Oh boy one one of these types of games every few years!" part 2 - you said Nintendo didn't have anything and that people were just mindlessly praising Nintendo for the Direct when this year alone Nintendo has Daemon x Machina, Astral Chain, AND Bayonetta 3 in its lineup. This shows you do not care about games themselves. You care more about systems.

3. Knack sucked. Shadow of the Colossus is a remake.

4. Do you play Sony sims like Gran Turismo and MLB The Show? Hasn't GT been usurped by Forza? Most think GT has slid extremely downward in quality. But you use that as an example while Fatal Frame games are bad?

5. Nintendo doesn't make sim games like MLB The Show or Gran Turismo, but they're the ONLY major publisher pushing arcade sports gameplay in the 2010's. Games like NBA Street, Virtua Tennis, SSX, Sega Rally are dead. Meanwhile, Nintendo has Mario Golf, Mario Tennis, Mario Kart 8, and recently put out Mario Sports Superstars - a compilation of various sports titles - on 3ds.

You are using list wars between companies and it's telling me you care less about good games and more about the platform. Do you play some of these games you're listing or are you using them as poker chips in system wars? That's like me using Nintendo being one of the few arcade sports developers out there as a case against Sony. I have only ever used Sony itself as an argument against Sony's own output showing I have no real horse in this race.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 08:06:52 PM by Cindi Mayweather »
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Cindi Mayweather

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1412 on: June 14, 2019, 08:03:08 PM »
Games are a flawed storytelling medium even if there's a few pieces of gold. Go to the Classics section at your local bookstore instead, please.
No, games are a flawed cinematic storytelling medium.
I think there's a big difference.

Films are also a flawed storytelling medium if you use books as a direct comparison and a standard of how a story is told.

The problem is that while films sort of found their language and voice, videogames are still struggling with the idea that a "story" can be told in many different ways than what we're used to, mostly through cinema.

So while i agree with you that cinematic videogames ultimately come off as shittier versions of movies, as far as storytelling is concern, it doesn't speak to the storytelling potential of the medium itself.

And of course examples of this are abundant; environmental storytelling is a classic storytelling tool videogames excel at; another one is designing player agency (to the point where the choice itself is the storytelling) and so on and forth.

Of course if your only tool to tell a story, is to interrupt the player with a cutscene, you're playing the loser's hand.

Games are fine as storytelling medium. I've played many games that show that plainly. The problem is that games necessitate a need to be fun which hampers and limits it storytelling capabilities. Therefore, a good game story might not even have good gameplay. Silent Hill 2 has the best game story of all time and its gameplay is between serviceable and trash. On the other hand, a good movie story only enhances a good movie.
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Don Rumata

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1413 on: June 14, 2019, 08:13:07 PM »
Games are fine as storytelling medium. I've played many games that show that plainly. The problem is that games necessitate a need to be fun which hampers and limits it storytelling capabilities. Therefore, a good game story might not even have good gameplay. Silent Hill 2 has the best game story of all time and its gameplay is between serviceable and trash. On the other hand, a good movie story only enhances a good movie.
I don't disagree with that, but i'd still consider that a problem of mostly cinematic games.
Silent Hill 2 does more than just funnel you into the next cutscene, as far as storytelling goes, but it's still very much unambitious when it comes to trying to break from the survival horror mold (SH2 is my favorite game, so i ain't even shitting on it), which is why the gameplay becomes serviceable at best, shit at worst, and it's still what i'd consider a cinematic game.

I think videogames interested in propelling forward good storytelling within the medium, should look into how games like DayZ or Civilization, or what have you, can tell a story through player's action, instead of trying to peg a square into a round hole, like most games do.
I'm not saying it's an easy solution to find, but it's where we should start looking for it.

That said, i am aware that most games are just fine being toys and nothing more; i don't think Guitar Hero cares that much about its storytelling, more than a carnival game of whack a mole would.

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1414 on: June 14, 2019, 08:25:55 PM »
Games are fine as storytelling medium. I've played many games that show that plainly. The problem is that games necessitate a need to be fun which hampers and limits it storytelling capabilities. Therefore, a good game story might not even have good gameplay. Silent Hill 2 has the best game story of all time and its gameplay is between serviceable and trash. On the other hand, a good movie story only enhances a good movie.
I don't disagree with that, but i'd still consider that a problem of mostly cinematic games.
Silent Hill 2 does more than just funnel you into the next cutscene, as far as storytelling goes, but it's still very much unambitious when it comes to trying to break from the survival horror mold (SH2 is my favorite game, so i ain't even shitting on it), which is why the gameplay becomes serviceable at best, shit at worst, and it's still what i'd consider a cinematic game.

I think videogames interested in propelling forward good storytelling within the medium, should look into how games like DayZ or Civilization, or what have you, can tell a story through player's action, instead of trying to peg a square into a round hole, like most games do.
I'm not saying it's an easy solution to find, but it's where we should start looking for it.

That said, i am aware that most games are just fine being toys and nothing more; i don't think Guitar Hero cares that much about its storytelling, more than a carnival game of whack a mole would.

I by no means think SotC has the best game story, but I do think it had the best example of storytelling through gameplay is best achieved. Few cutscenes, story is told visually and through gameplay. You see the Wanderer slowly becoming less human or dying the more he kills the giants. It's not in your face. There is no cutscene showing this, it's his model that changes throughout the game.

Another good example is Shenmue. Shenmue is cinematic and yet has a heavy gameplay focus and very, very few cutscenes. When you work, you don't see a cutscene of the Ryo working. You yourself also must work. This enhances the story because Shenmue is a martial arts quest about patience. So when Ryo is tasked with enduring a martial arts test on patience and will, the player, too, must also be patient.

Again, not saying they're the best game stories, but how they implement visuals, and use minimalism to tell the games story through game interaction is how I envision games as an interactive storytelling medium. The problem is that game players want fun. And as long as "fun" is the base barometer for a good game, game storytelling will never evolve.

My 2c.
Never

Bebpo

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1415 on: June 14, 2019, 08:34:29 PM »
Reading the last few pages of this thread  :doge

tldr; some people like oranges, some people like apples. Eat what makes you happy.
VIDEOGAMES :doge

Rahxephon91

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1416 on: June 14, 2019, 08:35:40 PM »
No my point in playing list wars was to make fun of brok's playing of list wars. "Well look in between making thier usual stuff, they did this". Pulling Devil's Third out of your ass, is just as bad as pulling Knack. If you want to just list everything such as Devil Third, then everything should be listed as well for Sony and when you do that it dosen't help your argument that Sony is just the same games over and over. My point has been that Sony's offerings are good, not just the same thing, and also provide things that you don't get from Nintendo. Nintendo dosen't actually have everything for everyone and it's possible to not care about thier games. They have a few off beat offerings every once in a while. That's it.

And yes Nintendo fans do mindlessly like Nintendo stuff.

Either way I don't care. I don't like Nintendo. I find most of thier offerings uninteresting and not because of whatever system they are on. I wouldn't care about Mario or Zelda if they were on the Xbox. If they were a 3rd party publisher, Iíd view them like Ubisoft. Publishing the same types of games , with similar templates,  personalities , and whatever. With the occasional game I like.
'
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 08:41:07 PM by Rahxephon91 »

thisismyusername

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1417 on: June 14, 2019, 08:58:55 PM »
Real talk though: That Pokemon exclusion shit is dumb. I was going to buy a Shitch this year, but with them going "uh, we can't program 800+ Pokemon" I'm basically going "nah, bro."

I even got a Shiny Eevee/Pikachu code to suffer through Let's Go to transfer to Sword/Shield/Gun. Sadly, that isn't going to happen.

bork

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1418 on: June 14, 2019, 09:06:16 PM »
No my point in playing list wars was to make fun of brok's playing of list wars. "



Nobody else here is taking this shit seriously.  :lol  We're just engaging you.

Either way I don't care. I don't like Nintendo.

:stan

Cool.  Moving on.
ど助平

Rahxephon91

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1419 on: June 14, 2019, 09:17:43 PM »
I mean you're the one listing trash games such as Devil's Third and poorly handled games like Fatal Frame V as "hey look at all the great things Nintendo is doing". Yet, I'm the one being accused of List Wars.

Please.

Nintendo has their little outliers here and there. Just like Sony does with stuff like Ratchet and Clank and Gravity Rush 2. Yet somehow Nintendo is a paragon of gaming. You Nintendo fans can't get off their dick.

bork

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1420 on: June 14, 2019, 09:19:48 PM »
I mean you're the one listing trash games such as Devil's Third and poorly handled games like Fatal Frame V as "hey look at all the great things Nintendo is doing". Yet, I'm the one being accused of List Wars.

Please.

I provided examples of so-called "adult" content.  Didn't say anything about quality.  Look how seriously you took even THAT, lmao.
:neogaf
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Rahxephon91

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1421 on: June 14, 2019, 09:25:08 PM »
If Devil's Third is your example of "hey look Nintendo publishes stuff", then you should'nt claim Sony is just the same walking game or whatever you call them when they also make trash like Knack or Ratchet and Clank.

Here comes the usual "you're taking this too seriously" bs from people also posting on the same exact forum.

I'm typing in between waiting for FFXIV ques and eating a hamburger. I will forgot this the moment I leave to do something else and the E3 discussion will continue on. Probably more sucking off Nintendo. I'm not taking this seriously.

bork

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1422 on: June 14, 2019, 09:35:32 PM »
If Devil's Third is your example of "hey look Nintendo publishes stuff", then you should'nt claim Sony is just the same walking game or whatever you call them when they also make trash like Knack or Ratchet and Clank.


I provided examples of so-called "adult" content.  Didn't say anything about quality.
Nothing to do with the posts from yesterday.   :lol

Here comes the usual "you're taking this too seriously" bs from people also posting on the same exact forum.

...You're taking this too seriously.

I'm typing in between waiting for FFXIV ques and eating a hamburger. I will forgot this the moment I leave to do something else and the E3 discussion will continue on. Probably more sucking off Nintendo. I'm not taking this seriously.

...You're taking this too seriously. 

 :)

ど助平

Trent Dole

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1423 on: June 14, 2019, 09:40:33 PM »
Hi

naff

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1424 on: June 14, 2019, 09:44:32 PM »
Don't forget SIE's ASOBI division VR stuff.

Astro Bot Rescue Mission :rejoice

spoiler (click to show/hide)
:rejoice
(_,_)

demi

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1425 on: June 14, 2019, 09:44:34 PM »
Real talk though: That Pokemon exclusion shit is dumb. I was going to buy a Shitch this year, but with them going "uh, we can't program 800+ Pokemon" I'm basically going "nah, bro."

I even got a Shiny Eevee/Pikachu code to suffer through Let's Go to transfer to Sword/Shield/Gun. Sadly, that isn't going to happen.

Man thats a shame. Bye lmao

Why you distinguished mentally-challenged fellows comment like this as if it matters.
fat

bork

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1426 on: June 14, 2019, 10:23:06 PM »


spoiler (click to show/hide)
ど助平

Premium Lager

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1427 on: June 15, 2019, 12:33:11 AM »
Real talk though: That Pokemon exclusion shit is dumb. I was going to buy a Shitch this year, but with them going "uh, we can't program 800+ Pokemon" I'm basically going "nah, bro."

I even got a Shiny Eevee/Pikachu code to suffer through Let's Go to transfer to Sword/Shield/Gun. Sadly, that isn't going to happen.

I dont even know what this means lol

Tasty Meat

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1428 on: June 15, 2019, 12:40:22 AM »
Real talk though: That Pokemon exclusion shit is dumb. I was going to buy a Shitch this year, but with them going "uh, we can't program 800+ Pokemon" I'm basically going "nah, bro."

I even got a Shiny Eevee/Pikachu code to suffer through Let's Go to transfer to Sword/Shield/Gun. Sadly, that isn't going to happen.

I dont even know what this means lol

Spoiler: neither does he :doge

TIMU's an ardent genwunner lol. Stick to Let's Go bb.
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thisismyusername

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1429 on: June 15, 2019, 12:40:53 AM »
Real talk though: That Pokemon exclusion shit is dumb. I was going to buy a Shitch this year, but with them going "uh, we can't program 800+ Pokemon" I'm basically going "nah, bro."

I even got a Shiny Eevee/Pikachu code to suffer through Let's Go to transfer to Sword/Shield/Gun. Sadly, that isn't going to happen.

I dont even know what this means lol

https://variety.com/2019/gaming/news/not-all-pokemon-will-transfer-to-sword-shield-1203241275/

Quote
ďWe knew at some point we werenít going to be able to indefinitely keep supporting all of the Pokťmon, and we just found that ĎSwordí and ĎShieldí would probably be a good point to go back and reevaluate,Ē Masuda clarified in an interview with USgamer. ďIt isnít just going to be all-new Pokťmon in the Galar region Pokťdex; thereís still going to be a lot of favorites that fans will be able to bring over that theyíve adventured with previously.Ē

Outside of like Pikachu, Eevee, the Gen-1 starters, and like Mewtwo, the rest of them are currently in limbo on being able to be transferred over.

Which is pretty clown-shoes coding by Gamefreak. Given the output they've done over the years: I really shouldn't be surprised that they have piss-poor engine coders and the like.

Real talk though: That Pokemon exclusion shit is dumb. I was going to buy a Shitch this year, but with them going "uh, we can't program 800+ Pokemon" I'm basically going "nah, bro."

I even got a Shiny Eevee/Pikachu code to suffer through Let's Go to transfer to Sword/Shield/Gun. Sadly, that isn't going to happen.

I dont even know what this means lol

Spoiler: neither does he :doge

TIMU's an ardent genwunner lol. Stick to Let's Go bb.

>Implying I haven't played the other gens
>Implying I don't keep up on the series


I know you have to fellate Nintendo's tiny Japanese dick every chance you get, but let's be honest: Gamefreak is fucking dumb.

>Finally reaches PS2 in terms of graphics
>Can't model 800 Pokemon
>Continues to pump out new Pokemon anyway instead of fixing series shit problems over the years


Really though: Nintendo needs to get the Pokemon Company back under them and then fire Gamefreak into the sun.

Tasty Meat

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1430 on: June 15, 2019, 02:43:01 AM »
Yeah Pokemon needs to have its Monster Hunter World moment. Ever since the 3DS and X/Y things have been veering more and more off track IMO.

That said I'm dubious you'd ever use the feature you're feverishly complaining about being cut. :doge I mean, I have a living Dex, so that's gonna hurt, but for normies like yourself I'm sure whatever Pokemon you'd want is in there -- especially since, as a genwunner, pretty much all Kanto Pokemon are guaranteed at this point.
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curly

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1431 on: June 15, 2019, 03:54:05 AM »
I thought Sun/Moon were well recieved?

Premium Lager

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1432 on: June 15, 2019, 04:02:54 AM »
Im sorry I didnt even know you could transfer pokemon across games, that seems pretty dumb actually but if there are realmy 800 then I get it why they cant just do it like that (look st polyphony and GT)

I thought every game is standalone.

I only played Red on the GB.

kingv

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1433 on: June 15, 2019, 04:41:50 AM »
I think it only applies in like post game battles so itís not relevant to playing the story.

Nintex

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1434 on: June 15, 2019, 06:17:10 AM »
This Pokemon game looks pretty bad in some ways and is obviously rushed out.
However, the Switch offers both handheld and console-grade games it seems.

Something like Link's Awakening would've been the handheld Zelda, BOTW 2 the console Zelda.
Pokemon Sword Shield would've been the handheld holiday game with Luigi's Mansion as the console holiday game.
Gamefreak isn't going to suddenly build AAA+ console titles overnight. I mean, Fire Emblem looks good but not because of the visuals.

Imagine if Nintendo also had Animal Crossing, a Retro Studios game, Bayonetta 3 and Metroid Prime 4 release this year as was the original plan.
Nintendo's line-up is this strong because we're finally seeing the handheld/console teams output combined on one system.

And unlike previous outings this wasn't even everything and the kitchen sink because the likes of HAL Labs and Monolith Software also have new games in development.
Notice how they didn't even need to announce SNES or N64 games or anything like that to fill up the gaps in their line-up.

There is no summer drought for the first time in Nintendo history.
dutch

Tasty Meat

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1435 on: June 15, 2019, 08:38:46 AM »
I thought Sun/Moon were well recieved?

Sun/Moon were extremely solid and gave me hope they knew what they were doing, but there were still some worrying signs like Ultra Beasts, lack of postgame content, and an oversized focus on Gen 1 Pokemon and Kanto cameos. And in usual Gamefreak fashion they stripped features from the preceding game, only this time it felt much more substantial and the main story that much more dependent on cutscenes to keep players engaged rather than organic gameplay. And cutscenes and epic stories (legendaries aside) ain't ever really what Pokemon been about.
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naff

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1436 on: June 15, 2019, 10:39:19 AM »
the pokemon franchise confuses me a bit. i often wonder if the way they keep pushing it along just enough that people keep buying the shit is a good strategy for keeping dev cost down. sure, they probably lose some of the more traditional player base. but do they care?

i remember back ~2003/4 and as wind waker/dragon quest viii came out i thought a more immersive pokemon console game was inevitable. if they did something that looked and played like sword and shield back then i prob would've been into it, but at this point eh, they'd have to really shake up the formula for me to care. it would be cool, but if they're still doing really well idk what motivation they have to do that.
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HardcoreRetro

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1437 on: June 15, 2019, 11:01:52 AM »
The original Little King's Story is the best adult video game. You play a dictator and you force people to fuck, so you can use their babies and train them as one of the classes.

Your kid is dead? Go fuck some more.

curly

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1438 on: June 15, 2019, 11:04:09 AM »
From my experience the pokemon audience is a different one than the traditional core. They care more about stuff like post game content than an immersive 3d world.

Huff

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Re: E3 2019 Thread - Nintendevolver wins again, baybee!! 20 years in a row!!
« Reply #1439 on: June 15, 2019, 11:18:58 AM »
I thought Sun/Moon were well recieved?

Sun/Moon were extremely solid and gave me hope they knew what they were doing, but there were still some worrying signs like Ultra Beasts, lack of postgame content, and an oversized focus on Gen 1 Pokemon and Kanto cameos. And in usual Gamefreak fashion they stripped features from the preceding game, only this time it felt much more substantial and the main story that much more dependent on cutscenes to keep players engaged rather than organic gameplay. And cutscenes and epic stories (legendaries aside) ain't ever really what Pokemon been about.

Pokťmon reddit in an uproar

dur