Final Fantasy VII Remake |OT| The Unknown Journey Will Continue

[Coffee Dog]

55:35 is a clip features Barret angrily staring into his open palm.  implicit that is not. These are not human beings.

[TEEEPO]

gave me the feels, day one

[Coffee Dog]

55:35 is a clip features Barret angrily staring into his open palm.  implicit that is not. These are not human beings.

He uhh... after yelling and hurrying up an elevator *fist clenched* sees a collected Cloud with his eyes closed.

Cloud's proven himself, and his carefree counter-part are both going to be getting off together at the same stop/time.

Barret then proceeds to exhale, not chastise Cloud or yell impotently at the elevator, and then loosens his grip after a subtle point of self-awareness.

The scene breathes until the door finally opens and both spring to action.

Yeah, I'm saying that having a character open and close his hand to signify his shift in intentions is not some sort of genre elevating writing. It's Barret cooling off for the third time in 30 minutes, and it is not in any sense of the word implied or implicit unless "implicit" literally just means unspoken. Human beings do not act like these people. This game has not transcended its roots in the way you're implying.

[Himu]

I guess my problem is a translation from text to voice. Barret is no different than Dyne, he's very much a terrorist with a mean streak. But in my 10+ playthroughs of the game (including the one now) I've never imagined Barret to be nothing more than a hothead with a moral gray area and flawed huamnity rather than a raging lunatic.



But in the end, these are just nitpicks.

My main issue is 21337 saying that scene transcended jrpgs. It's such a ridiculous claim and one I profoundly disagree with.

My main criticism isn't really character portrayal. I'm mostly fine on that front even if I find it overdone. My main issue is that it's just not fun to play. Enemies take too long too kill, the combat doesn't feel good, controls are stiff, and boss fights so far are overly drawn out.

Given my main reason for playing rpgs is mostly gameplay, I can't see any reason to pick up the remake. I doubt they'll improve anything in the original story, I already know the original story, and don't find the gameplay fun.

So I'll drop the negativity and leave you in peace.

[Himu]

In these types of discussions I always have to remind myself this truth:

All jrpg fans like (some) Final Fantasy; not all Final Fantasy fans like jrpgs.

Reading the comments and impressions of FFVIIr shows there's a complete conflict in what I like and what people that like this remake enjoy. And you know, that's fine.

There's stuff I do like out there even if FF isn't it anymore. Looking forward to more DS3 and FFVII tonight.

[Himu]

The point is that the writing is implicit, as in, the writing is not explicitly telling you these things.

I'm fucking tired of JRPG stories where every character interaction either moves along the plot, or characters develop due to some boring ass sidequest or party-wide intervention.

If a character can show to be self-aware on his own, to the observation of nobody, without any type of audible reaction or internal monologue... that's a move that has never been done before.

That doesn't mean it elevates the genre though. And many jrpgs do similar. The only real connection that Relm and Shadow are father and daughter is the accessory they have equipped for instance. There are numerous jrpgs that don't explicitly tell you things.

[nachobro]

watched giant bomb play through it and those cutscenes are goofy as hell, just like all ff games have been for a while. at this point you have to just accept that square will never get better than that in games not named "final fantasy xiv".

the combat looks like there's a bit more to it than 15 and that's the more interesting part to me. i'm sure i'll check it out when it hits pc.

[TVC15]

Barrett’s voice is really bad. It reminds me of 30 Rock, when Alec Baldwin’s character had to impersonate every member of Tracy’s family in a therapy session for some reason. It just sounds really phony, like a fake voice to me.

[Chooky]

barret in the original was so hotheaded that he'd regularly start shooting his gun all over the place as he screamed and ranted. and the bit about hearing the planet cry is straight from the original, where you would sometimes literally hear crying from the earth. like why is this even being argued against

anyways the demo was great. felt like a playable version of some shit they were going for in Advent Children (which was 15 years ago now, wtf) and it all looked incredible. the combat was fun and more involved than i thought it would be, and i'm interested to see how far they'll take it and how they'll do a second game where the characters all have to become scrubs again. extremely excited for the release now.

[bluemax]

Demo seems like a natural progression and refinement of what they've been building with KH, FFT-0 and FFXV and to a lesser extent FFXIII. Clearly this is not every old school ATB or bust player's cup of tea.

[Joe Molotov]

Is Wedge trans?

[thetylerrob]

Man this demo has me hyped. The battle system seems fun and challenging in exactly the way I wanted and Wow the graphics are fucking gorgeous. The only things I'm iffy on are the vocal performances and English voices, I might have set the voices to Japanese in the final game if it didn't have such amazing incidental dialogue. Oh well.

Barrett singing the FF victory fanfare? 

[Akala]

It went above pretty low expectations. I always thought the story in VII was pretty stupid to begin with, but I would be lying to say I have no nostalgia for it, especially the demo section. I am not sure I will get day one but am definitely interested.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

[bluemax]

Man this demo has me hyped. The battle system seems fun and challenging in exactly the way I wanted and Wow the graphics are fucking gorgeous. The only things I'm iffy on are the vocal performances and English voices, I might have set the voices to Japanese in the final game if it didn't have such amazing incidental dialogue. Oh well.

Barrett singing the FF victory fanfare? 

If Barrett ends up with the Prompto style self awareness...

[bluemax]

The game also constantly makes weird connections. They mention Tifa TWICE. The player hasn't met her yet. They said this game  was for people that aren't FFVII fans. Why is it assumed the player knows who Tifa is? Jesse also brings up Tifa as a potential love interest, which is a bad sign, because in the original, up until disc 2 at least, Tifa is an awful character whose only value is romance interest. Tifa constantly interjects with Aerith -  who DOES have value and utility - with romance garbage. Tifa's only there to force a stupid love triangle situation and Barret already has the Avalanche terrorist leader label, so there's nothing unique to Tifa and makes  her a weak link until at least disc 2 when she finally gains agency with Aerith out of the picture.

For them to link Tifa as a romance interest the first time she's even mentioned isn't a good sign of improvement in character development.

Why be invested? What has been improved exactly?

That's because apparently there is a flashback that gets shown after one of those mentions that is not in the demo.


One thing that does bum me out about this, it honestly feels like your party AI is a MASSIVE step back from the party in FFXV. Barrett just did not have the same intelligence and awareness as Prompto/Gladio/Ignis. I wonder if that is just a limit of how much time they had with UE4.

[Human Snorenado]

I don't understand how any of you can give half of a shit about the story when the combat is sitting right there like a huge ol elephant turd begging to be mocked

To call this combat shallow is an insult to action games with shallow combat. I played on normal (the highest difficulty available) and didn't have to do anything other than button mash until the boss, and then I only had to button mash and occasionally use potions. It's shit, pure and utter shit, and completely indefensible. If you can't make decent action combat, use fucking turn based. You're a jrpg you dumb fuckers.

Midgar is very pretty. It's a shame you're only going to be able to go to very specific areas, completely on rails. At the pace they're going, we'll get to the open world section with the release of the PS7 in 2032, maybe.

This game is a bloated, terrible, on rails, tourism fest. It's a complete and total surrender to mediocre game development, and is entirely emblematic of Squeenix in this blighted year of our lord, 2020. A lot of you are going to buy it, "play" it, and claim to enjoy it, because you're dumb with no standards. I'm not going to bother to click on this thread after probably tomorrow, or any other threads about this stillbirth of a "game" going forward, so let me be clear: you're terrible human beings, I award you no points, and may a God I don't even believe in have mercy on your souls.

Bitches.

[demi]

See you tomorrow

[Himu]

The battle system is the deal breaker. It's awful. Just hold square. The targeting is awful, the game is near unplayable when enemies move around the field because the lock on is horrendous, dodging is terrible, spacing and offense if also terrible as many attacks have questionable, deceptive hotboxes. The controls are stiff and feel like ass. Ai just sits there and is useless. It doesn't even have gambits to take advantage of it.

Going from Souls to this was like willingly giving my hands arthritis.

[paprikastaude]

I don't understand how any of you can give half of a shit about the story when the combat is sitting right there like a huge ol elephant turd begging to be mocked

To call this combat shallow is an insult to action games with shallow combat. I played on normal (the highest difficulty available) and didn't have to do anything other than button mash until the boss, and then I only had to button mash and occasionally use potions.

wow sounds like a JRPG.

[paprikastaude]

[BlueTsunami]

Lmao this poor game is going to be shit on by ATB pussies for being too frantic and action game Chad's for being piss easy

[bork]

Been seeing this game referred to as "The Bouncer 2.0." Accurate?  Certainly seems that way in how disappointing it is.

What about the other turn-based battle system?  Not available in the demo?

[Svejk]

Been seeing this game referred to as "The Bouncer 2.0." Accurate?  Certainly seems that way in how disappointing it is.

What about the other turn-based battle system?  Not available in the demo?

Always wanted a new The Bouncer, and I would be totally ok with this.       (And yes... the title splash announcer just went through my head.)  Although ultra shallow, broken gameplay, it was still a fun, 1 time play romp, weekend rental....  I have yet to try the demo still, But paying $60 atm?... nah.  Especially for a game that's technically not complete... and may never be... Shenmue 3 all over again... Everyone asked for it, and then everyone hates it.   

[bork]

Always wanted a new The Bouncer, and I would be totally ok with this.       (And yes... the title splash announcer just went through my head.)  Although ultra shallow, broken gameplay, it was still a fun, 1 time play romp, weekend rental.... 

 

[HardcoreRetro]

Why is nobody complaining about the camera? Have an action game where it's hard to tell where enemies are. The robot scorpion you can't see shit when fighting it up close with Cloud.

Awful.

[Svejk]

Why is nobody complaining about the camera? Have an action game where it's hard to tell where enemies are. The robot scorpion you can't see shit when fighting it up close with Cloud.

Sounds like the majority of larger boss fights in Souls games. 

[Raist]

Been seeing this game referred to as "The Bouncer 2.0." Accurate?  Certainly seems that way in how disappointing it is.

What about the other turn-based battle system?  Not available in the demo?

Turn based is literally the same, except that all characters act as AI ones so you're only waiting for the ATB gauges to fill up and issue actions.
It's in the demo.

[Human Snorenado]

Lmao this poor game is going to be shit on by ATB pussies for being too frantic and action game Chad's for being piss easy

It is in no way too frantic (maybe the boss fight if you're an idiot and keep button mashing, which in the player's defense- that's all you had to do up until that point so why think otherwise?) and if piss easy games are well done they're still enjoyable.

This is just a bad game with a really pretty coat of paint.

[Great Rumbler]

I don't understand how any of you can give half of a shit about the story when the combat is sitting right there like a huge ol elephant turd begging to be mocked

To call this combat shallow is an insult to action games with shallow combat. I played on normal (the highest difficulty available) and didn't have to do anything other than button mash until the boss, and then I only had to button mash and occasionally use potions. It's shit, pure and utter shit, and completely indefensible. If you can't make decent action combat, use fucking turn based. You're a jrpg you dumb fuckers.

Midgar is very pretty. It's a shame you're only going to be able to go to very specific areas, completely on rails. At the pace they're going, we'll get to the open world section with the release of the PS7 in 2032, maybe.

This game is a bloated, terrible, on rails, tourism fest. It's a complete and total surrender to mediocre game development, and is entirely emblematic of Squeenix in this blighted year of our lord, 2020. A lot of you are going to buy it, "play" it, and claim to enjoy it, because you're dumb with no standards. I'm not going to bother to click on this thread after probably tomorrow, or any other threads about this stillbirth of a "game" going forward, so let me be clear: you're terrible human beings, I award you no points, and may a God I don't even believe in have mercy on your souls.

Bitches.

ok boomer

[Raist]

I mean, here's the thing. It's not an action game.

[mormapope]

Tfw Yakuza 7 will have better JRPG combat than a mainline Final Fantasy 

[Don Rumata]

Been seeing this game referred to as "The Bouncer 2.0." Accurate?  Certainly seems that way in how disappointing it is.

What about the other turn-based battle system?  Not available in the demo?

Is this the usual nerd bubble that shits on every other popular game, or is it genuinely being received with disappointment? Can't speak for myself because every time i tried to play the original i got bored by disc 1.
But i'll still give this demo a try today.

[Human Snorenado]

I mean, here's the thing. It's not an action game.

Ok, then what is it? It has shittier combat than Tales games for fucks sakes. It's clearly not a traditional jrpg.

It's just a fucking mess.

[thetylerrob]

You've played less than an hour, you don't know if the combat is shitty. Quit sperging out yall.

[Himu]

Lmao this poor game is going to be shit on by ATB pussies for being too frantic and action game Chad's for being piss easy

I'm very good at action games. People who make this argument are idiots.

[Himu]

Been seeing this game referred to as "The Bouncer 2.0." Accurate?  Certainly seems that way in how disappointing it is.

What about the other turn-based battle system?  Not available in the demo?

Is this the usual nerd bubble that shits on every other popular game, or is it genuinely being received with disappointment? Can't speak for myself because every time i tried to play the original i got bored by disc 1.
But i'll still give this demo a try today.

I actually don't know what he's talking about. All I've heard and seen is rsve reviews.

[Coffee Dog]

This game is pretty clearly well received by most. It's not surprising, this thing has been in people's hands since E3.

I mean, here's the thing. It's not an action game.

It's an action game every time you don't have ATB.  Unless you straight up set it to easy and have it auto fight for you, it's an action game. You're dodging and blocking, and you have two attacks. It means its simpler than Streets of Rage 2, but its still an action game.

[bork]

Been seeing this game referred to as "The Bouncer 2.0." Accurate?  Certainly seems that way in how disappointing it is.

What about the other turn-based battle system?  Not available in the demo?

Is this the usual nerd bubble that shits on every other popular game, or is it genuinely being received with disappointment? Can't speak for myself because every time i tried to play the original i got bored by disc 1.
But i'll still give this demo a try today.

Beats me- I haven't tried it yet. 

[Himu]

You've played less than an hour, you don't know if the combat is shitty. Quit sperging out yall.

I'm more interested to get a peek at the lot and leveling system/skill trees. Are there any previews or footage on how this works?

I remember the first level of ff7 being pretty straight forward and simple too with only a couple options

FF demos always limit functionality. You can't equip and move materia until you have a full party the next day after the bombing. But this isn't an argument of options. This is just the first time people have had a taste of the battle system itself. It's the battle system we are criticizing, not customization. Customization means jack shit if you don't like the things that make up the battle system.

[tiesto]

Played through it last night. Thought the battle system was definitely more responsive than 15, but still nothing too great. Ys is still my action RPG gold standard (not a fan of the Souls games tbh). Camera was terrible as expected, and this is one area I tend to grapple with the most in any kind of 3D game. I don't expect things to get too much deeper gameplay-wise than what's in the demo, but I'll admit I'm mainly interested from a content tourist perspective. I wanna see how all my favorite areas look in HD, hear familiar songs in higher fidelity, etc.

It reminded me a lot of Mass Effect, actually. Linear, setpiece heavy areas with a pointer of where to go next, super shallow RPG trappings, and a high level of sheen. I expect it to be a huge hit for SE and then to see a bunch of moronic thinkpieces on how all other RPGs should follow in its footsteps and "modernize".

[Ghoul]

Imagine buying the game and then you get the demo + another hour of gameplay.  "We said it'd be split into parts"

[TVC15]

It’s about what I expected. I may mash through this on a boring holiday break, but it doesn’t feel must play or even particularly exciting. Pretty and barely mediocre. Square’s target these days.

[Svejk]

SE needs to take notes from Capcom.. show how videogames are done in this day and age.

[nachobro]

they are taking notes from capcom...problem is its the capcom fg division

[bork]

It’s about what I expected. I may mash through this on a boring holiday break, but it doesn’t feel must play or even particularly exciting. Pretty and barely mediocre. Square’s target these days.

Maybe it will be improved when the inevitable complete edition is released after part two.   

[HardcoreRetro]

Why is nobody complaining about the camera? Have an action game where it's hard to tell where enemies are. The robot scorpion you can't see shit when fighting it up close with Cloud.

Awful.

You can fix it in the menu, set scale to 3

I did. It's still not good.

[Himu]

Also, you can't just mash your way into beating this on normal or you'll die?

Cloud has juggles like Nier: Automata w/ delay button presses and you can cancel operator mode with rolls to make it fluid and optimal.

With Barret you can cancel your overheat animation into a better charge for more focused shots and charge shots, the latter of which can shoot multiple enemies if you get one on low health.

I'll post a video of me holding square

[Great Rumbler]

Considering that the demo is just the bombing run, I don't get people freaking out over it being really linear.

[TVC15]

Considering that the demo is just the bombing run, I don't get people freaking out over it being really linear.

The whole midgar portion of the game is linear!

[Himu]

Considering that the demo is just the bombing run, I don't get people freaking out over it being really linear.

That I can agree with. It'll open up later.

[Great Rumbler]

Considering that the demo is just the bombing run, I don't get people freaking out over it being really linear.

The whole midgar portion of the game is linear!

In the original, yeah, but there's plenty of ways that they can open it up in the remake. Making the bombing run segment open and more non-linear makes no sense, though.

[MMaRsu]

Considering that the demo is just the bombing run, I don't get people freaking out over it being really linear.

That I can agree with. It'll open up later.

yeah in part 2

[Himu]

Considering that the demo is just the bombing run, I don't get people freaking out over it being really linear.

The whole midgar portion of the game is linear!

They'll be opening it up. You can now explore the top plate.

[Himu]

Considering that the demo is just the bombing run, I don't get people freaking out over it being really linear.

The whole midgar portion of the game is linear!

ff7 had the most innovative and deep battle systems.... the deepest and most explorable rpg world.... definitely NOT lauded because of shit like pretty cutscenes, memorable music, graphics or a goofily animated plot twist... and this game is a remake of that masterpiece. i think you'll find that if it wants to stay true to the original's promise I demand no less than a Path of Exile level complexity in the battle system... just like the original...

 

This is a poor post. I'm a gameplay jrpg fan and FFVII is far from my favorite FF, much less jrpg. It's very shallow. I can beat most of the game spamming attack and the "dungeons" are 1-2 screens long. However, I kind of wanted the original systems but...better. Just like REmake. The gameplay of the FFVII remake is not better in any sense of the word. In fact, it's just as mindless but in another way and far less fun to me besides that. It's not an improvement in any way.

[Himu]

that's my (ironic) point. ff7 was always mids gameplay, it's fair to want better or even to expect better, but it is a remake

the entire game's legacy was not some crazy innovation in play. it was a show off piece in production values and storytelling. if you're saying that it sucks on its own merit, that's fine. but expecting entire portions of a remade game to be big departures from what they actually are - see Triumph's comments on midgar - is nonsensical.

Remakes should be better. REmake is better by leaps and bounds. It's reasonable to expect gameplay to improve. The gameplay has not improved at all.

[Raist]

I mean, here's the thing. It's not an action game.

Ok, then what is it? It has shittier combat than Tales games for fucks sakes. It's clearly not a traditional jrpg.

It's just a fucking mess.

It's honestly not massively different from the OG game. You can just move around and mash square for a bit to speed up the ATB gauge, instead of having characters awkwardly stand still till it's full. Though there is some mild degree of doing so efficiently (using stagger etc) to make the process even quicker.

So it's action-lite RPG, I guess.

[thetylerrob]

that's my (ironic) point. ff7 was always mids gameplay, it's fair to want better or even to expect better, but it is a remake

the entire game's legacy was not some crazy innovation in play. it was a show off piece in production values and storytelling. if you're saying that it sucks on its own merit, that's fine. but expecting entire portions of a remade game to be big departures from what they actually are - see Triumph's comments on midgar - is nonsensical.

Remakes should be better. REmake is better by leaps and bounds. It's reasonable to expect gameplay to improve. The gameplay has not improved at all.

RE2 remake was great but it wasn't "better." It was a modern take on an old game that stayed faithful to old game design elements while adding in new game design and extremely polished visuals. Modern remakes strive to be more like this since it makes more sense as a marketable product and the fans that are unhappy were never going to be satisfied in the first place. If you want to replay FF7 you can go back and do that. Calling the battle system garbage based on an hour long demo sorta implies that yall were going to hate it no matter what since it isn't turn-based.

[Himu]

I haven't played REmake 2 yet. And I'm specifically talking about the first remake.

[Tuckers Law]

Not certain, but I think Cindi is talking about the RE1 remake, which was extremely faithful to the actual mechanics and design whilst also updating it for the times with UI and graphics improvements.

Meanwhile in square land, they seem hellbent on pushing their shitty combat stylings from the shitty Kingdom Hearts games onto their shitty new Final Fantasies.

EDIT: beaten to the punch by Cindi’s endlessly mashing the square button

[Himu]

Not certain, but I think Cindi is talking about the RE1 remake, which was extremely faithful to the actual mechanics and design whilst also updating it for the times with UI and graphics improvements.

Meanwhile in square land, they seem hellbent on pushing their shitty combat stylings from the shitty Kingdom Hearts games onto their shitty new Final Fantasies.

EDIT: beaten to the punch by Cindi’s endlessly mashing the square button

REmake does more than this. It's so much better than Resident Evil 1. It takes the same game and makes it more challenging, better, while remixing it. In the past, Square remakes have been to take the same game and make it better. There is nothing better about the VII remake so far besides graphics.