Author Topic: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back  (Read 33910 times)

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GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #540 on: May 27, 2022, 08:15:47 AM »
Also looked at a couple sequences of Babylon 5, which is a show I haven't seen in a couple decades and boy... That's rough. The camera work especially felt super flat, with a bunch of lifeless master shots. The Star Trek shows have sometimes issues with production value but I didn't expect such a wide gap on revisiting. The acting also meh apart from Katsulas who really crushes it.

Which is absolutely a testament to the writing that it still holds up despite the shoddy vfx work and hugely variable acting chops. Same deal as classic Doctor Who tbh (which suffers even worse on the production side of things, but generally better on the acting side of things, even though it regularly veers into huge Stage Ham territory)

MMaRsu

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #541 on: May 27, 2022, 11:04:52 AM »
It was a decent episode. I really like Pike and Spock

VomKriege

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #542 on: May 27, 2022, 01:32:01 PM »
Also looked at a couple sequences of Babylon 5, which is a show I haven't seen in a couple decades and boy... That's rough. The camera work especially felt super flat, with a bunch of lifeless master shots. The Star Trek shows have sometimes issues with production value but I didn't expect such a wide gap on revisiting. The acting also meh apart from Katsulas who really crushes it.

Which is absolutely a testament to the writing that it still holds up despite the shoddy vfx work and hugely variable acting chops. Same deal as classic Doctor Who tbh (which suffers even worse on the production side of things, but generally better on the acting side of things, even though it regularly veers into huge Stage Ham territory)

Classic Who (or Who in general) is never something I dipped into though I'm a little familiar with it and I know it was long synonymous with the BBC attempting to stretch centimeters into miles in the SFX and music department. I don't think bad VFX is necessarily a deal breaker, it was expected of any TV show really, but I kept... rosier memories.
Trek has all those issues in spade too but I have a newfound appreciation of how it has a smaller delta of variance, shall we say. Not that there's an incredible mystery there, people often quote that B5 episodes had roughly half the budget of DS9.

(Stage Ham... Did someone say Brian Blessed ?)
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D3RANG3D

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #543 on: May 31, 2022, 05:19:17 PM »
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D3RANG3D

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #544 on: June 02, 2022, 06:42:20 PM »
Watched the first episode of The Orville...a pretty serious episode about post war hate/grief.

Everything got upgrades in tech/uniforms, but I am a little worried that they might have changed the tone of the show from the goofy Trek spoof to being totally serious from now on since there was little to no humor in this episode, when in the past they would have a tense scene only to get sucker punched by poop and/or dick joke.

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Yaphit was in this so...Norm McDonald was in this episode.  :cry
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« Last Edit: June 03, 2022, 06:50:08 AM by D3RANG3D »

D3RANG3D

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #545 on: June 03, 2022, 04:10:58 AM »
Shart Trek SNW Ep 5 my favorite episode so far, it handled the body swap meme way better than TOS did lol.

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #546 on: June 03, 2022, 08:12:29 AM »


for Bork who didn't believe us when we talked about beverly crusher getting fucked by scottish ghosts in the previous thread

Tuckers Law

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #547 on: June 03, 2022, 12:23:39 PM »
What an awful, awful episode of Star Trek.  It may just be the worst ever standalone episode in Trek.

MMaRsu

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #548 on: June 05, 2022, 10:45:30 AM »

benjipwns

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #549 on: June 05, 2022, 10:51:58 AM »
What an awful, awful episode of Star Trek.  It may just be the worst ever standalone episode in Trek.
The writers and producers loved it:
Quote
Braga noted the show was not popular among who he dubbed "hard-core fans". "I've come to notice that whenever you infuse a show with sexual themes, some of these fans seem to short-circuit. I mean, the weather array malfunction causing thunderstorms – it was fun!" (Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion (? ed., p. ?))

René Echevarria recalled, "I can still reduce Brannon to shudders when I go into his office and say, 'I can travel on the power transfer beam'. But the cast loved it. Every woman on the lot who read it was coming up to Brannon and patting him. Ultimately I think it was worth doing because it was campy fun and the production values were wonderful. The sets look great and everybody threw themselves into it. Gates did a wonderful job. It just got bigger and broader and to the point of grandmother leaping out of the grave. Just having Beverly basically writhing around having an orgasm at 6 o'clock on family TV was great. For that alone it was worth doing. We got away with murder." (Captains' Logs: The Unauthorized Complete Trek Voyages)

Ronald D. Moore stated, "I kinda liked it. I thought it was good to try a different genre on TNG and mix things up a little. It's not a perfect show by any means, but I'm glad we did it." (AOL chat, 1997)

Braga commented, "It was the best performance I've ever seen. I just thought she did a wonderful job. Picard catches Beverly masturbating for crying out loud! What a tough role to play. When I was writing the words, 'She writhes around in the bed having invisible sex,' I just thought, 'Oh man, we're asking for trouble. Are they gonna be able to pull this off?' Thanks to [director] Jonathan Frakes and Gates, it was not hokey. It was very good. Look, I scripted the first orgasm in "The Game". This was mild by comparison. Sure it was racy. Even Rick Berman had said, 'I can't believe we're doing this.' I think they trimmed quite a bit out of the writhing sequences." (Captains' Logs: The Unauthorized Complete Trek Voyages)

At an Austin, Texas convention in 2012, Gates McFadden stated she wasn't very fond of this episode. "I was basically in love with a lamp! This woman is a doctor and falls in love with a lamp! How the hell does that work?"

Tasty

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #550 on: June 05, 2022, 11:15:34 AM »
Quote
It was very good.

[citation needed]

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #551 on: June 07, 2022, 11:49:18 AM »
NtGay

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #552 on: June 07, 2022, 11:51:44 AM »
NtGay

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #553 on: June 07, 2022, 11:54:25 AM »


:dead it happened to me
NtGay

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #554 on: June 07, 2022, 02:31:52 PM »
sing along to faith of the heart but change the specific words faith of the heart to rock flag and eagle


chronovore

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #556 on: June 09, 2022, 08:46:11 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)

:dead it happened to me

It didn't have the "SKIP INTRO" button when I watched, so I got good at the jump-skip to the end instead. That song can forever suck it.

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #557 on: June 10, 2022, 06:41:15 AM »
NtGay

Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #558 on: June 10, 2022, 08:22:03 AM »
Latest Star Trek bordered on gruesome.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Child sacrifice is not an exaggeration. And the new sacrifice got to see exactly what happened to his predecessor.
[close]

Also, apologies to M'Benga's daughter as a cure was presented but ultimately eluded her.

D3RANG3D

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #559 on: June 11, 2022, 02:12:49 AM »
Shart Trek Ep 6

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The Orville Ep 2

A decent body horror episode, the comedy is back in a subdued TNG era awkward humor sort of way.  :-\
« Last Edit: June 11, 2022, 12:10:59 PM by D3RANG3D »


VomKriege

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #561 on: June 12, 2022, 08:57:06 AM »
The magic of prop shops and popular locations. Still more subtle than the original series having a Nazi of a Chicago Gangster planet.
Maybe the Robin Hood episode in TNG was some sort of deal like that though.
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MMaRsu

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #562 on: June 12, 2022, 11:07:33 PM »


Damn this is dope

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #563 on: June 13, 2022, 04:03:07 AM »
lmfao that thats the episode they chose to animate; threshold is definitely up there (down there) with sub rosa

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #564 on: June 13, 2022, 04:06:46 AM »
shit, well, if we've done sub rosa and threshold;


D3RANG3D

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #565 on: June 13, 2022, 04:42:18 AM »

MMaRsu

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #566 on: June 15, 2022, 06:45:11 PM »
New episode of new worlds was great imo

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #567 on: June 15, 2022, 08:35:20 PM »
NtGay

D3RANG3D

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #568 on: June 17, 2022, 09:02:42 PM »
I think hell froze over Shart Trek had a better episode than The Orville.  :mindblown

D3RANG3D

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #569 on: June 18, 2022, 03:48:14 PM »

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #570 on: June 20, 2022, 05:30:02 PM »
NtGay

MMaRsu

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #571 on: June 20, 2022, 06:36:29 PM »
 :quark

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #572 on: June 24, 2022, 04:45:59 PM »
NtGay

MMaRsu

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #573 on: June 24, 2022, 05:07:06 PM »
no

MMaRsu

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #574 on: June 24, 2022, 05:16:54 PM »

VomKriege

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #575 on: June 24, 2022, 06:52:40 PM »
Two episodes of Hell.
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D3RANG3D

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #576 on: June 26, 2022, 07:46:16 AM »

D3RANG3D

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #577 on: June 26, 2022, 03:08:50 PM »

D3RANG3D

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #578 on: June 27, 2022, 06:52:12 AM »

D3RANG3D

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #579 on: June 27, 2022, 09:00:08 AM »

Himu

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #580 on: June 27, 2022, 02:05:34 PM »
How is Strange New Worlds?
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D3RANG3D

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #581 on: June 27, 2022, 02:24:02 PM »
It's watchable except that first episode is a piece of shit.

Himu

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #582 on: June 27, 2022, 02:32:25 PM »
Does it present progressive values as the only way forward or is it like classic Trek that shows multiple sides of an issue, that things aren't so black and white, and that disagreeing forces - like say, the war-like Klingon versus the always logical Android - can somehow come to compromise? Trek was great because it showed that multiple viewpoints can add their take to the whole and that true leadership is getting opinions from a variety of sources and not just one. If there's one problem with modern Trek it's that it presents only one solution as permissible, much less possible. This is acutely anti-Trek.
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D3RANG3D

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #583 on: June 27, 2022, 02:38:33 PM »
spoiler (click to show/hide)
EP1 has Jan the 6th as the catalyst for the Eugenics Wars/WW3 if that answers your question.
[close]

Himu

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #584 on: June 27, 2022, 02:39:54 PM »
spoiler (click to show/hide)
EP1 has Jan the 6th as the catalyst for the Eugenics Wars/WW3 if that answers your question.
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Yes, I read about that. But aside from that not much stupid liberal navel gazing?
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D3RANG3D

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #585 on: June 27, 2022, 02:47:45 PM »
Not really at least not in my opinion, but they still act like snarky unprofessional assholes.

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It still isn't something I would sign up to P+ but it's worth watching it through the internet store.
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Himu

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #586 on: June 27, 2022, 02:50:02 PM »
Snarky unprofessional assholes? So it's still Orville cosplay where they curse and all that jazz? I'll give it a shot.
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D3RANG3D

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #587 on: June 27, 2022, 02:50:57 PM »
It's even less funny than that.

Himu

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #588 on: June 27, 2022, 02:53:44 PM »
It's even less funny than that.

Yeah I remember Tilly and the I FUCKING LOVE  SCIENCE crap. Even I as someone that likes Discovery roll my eyes at that bs. It doesn't feel genuine.
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benjipwns

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #589 on: June 27, 2022, 02:54:11 PM »
While I don't agree with you on the perniciousness of progressive shit in shows overall, I think you'll find Strange New Worlds much better than Discovery and Picard even on that point since I know the kinds of things you're referring to.

Himu

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #590 on: June 27, 2022, 02:58:24 PM »
Progressivism isn't inherently bad. The problem is that the modern idea of progressivism. In the 90's, progressivism was a future where people of different ideas could live together and try to understand another. Today it means "believe in the same things I do or else - this is the future". So it depends on the definition and 90's Trek absolutely stands for the formers ideals.

Again, I'll give it a shot. Looking forward to it. I still like Picard and Discovery. My problem is that they seem to have really bought into the idea that Star Trek is for progressives only and not for a wide group of people.
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benjipwns

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #591 on: June 27, 2022, 03:10:51 PM »
I actually think that current Trek's vision of the future even vis a vis Trek itself is ample grounds for criticism. I'm just not sure it has as much to do with progressivism as much as it is the writers are stupid and unimaginative and so can only view the future through modern politics and their own lens which is modern progressivism. Say what you will about Gene's vision of the future (lmao) but it tended to be pretty radical and out there and then found its way back to us through what similarities remained. It was trying to talk about things inherent to the human condition that we might never advance past rather than simply commenting on modern issues through metaphor. Gene knew he couldn't just do stuff like racial equality without metaphor but he wasn't just trying to comment on human racial equality, he really meant that stuff regarding aliens too. Gene wanted to hit on and possibly sexually harass everybody not just humans of different skin colors.

D3RANG3D

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #592 on: June 27, 2022, 03:13:34 PM »

Himu

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #593 on: June 27, 2022, 03:53:09 PM »
I'm just not sure it has as much to do with progressivism as much as it is the writers are stupid and unimaginative and so can only view the future through modern politics and their own lens which is modern progressivism.

So we aren't arguing the same thing? Or is your take more a nuanced take with more elaborate language?
« Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 03:57:42 PM by Himu »
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benjipwns

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #594 on: June 27, 2022, 06:09:00 PM »
Or is your take more a nuanced take with more elaborate language?
No, I'm just basically saying they're dumb rather than deliberate.

Himu

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #595 on: June 27, 2022, 06:24:33 PM »
Or is your take more a nuanced take with more elaborate language?
No, I'm just basically saying they're dumb rather than deliberate.


Ah. It's hard for me to not equate modern progressivism with "dumb" as a bug rather than a feature, though. To me they're the same.
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Tasty

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Re: Star Trek Thread part 2: The Kurtzman Strikes Back
« Reply #596 on: June 27, 2022, 06:42:46 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)

I mean he was pretty much saying this ever since TOS s3, and especially after TMP failed