Other Forums Containment Thread

[Mostima]

Half the posts just seems like jokes where they just put up the least sexual, least feminine designs possible. Complain about shooters being full of grey space marines with shaved heads pandering to "gamer dudebros", but somehow it's high art if it's a woman.

[HaughtyFrank]

Ehh this is discounting hijabi progressives and feminists. If you are saying hijab is a product of patriarchy, surely that can go for any piece of clothing designed for women. Bras, skirts, bikinis, tops, they're usually designed by men. And often for the male gaze. It's just often hijab is singled out and patronised (usually by white men) as a piece of female clothing placed outside of feminism. Women in general, not just Muslim women, live in patriarchal cultures.

I don't think this is a fair generalization to make, and it's shitty to not trust women who wear a hijab that they are doing it because they genuinely want to.

Is really all kind of sad how RE genuinely thinks that the hijab is progressive or that nobody can call out Messofanego for being in a arranged marriage without cacthing a ban. Shitty assholes.

I really don't know how Messo can handle this cognitive dissonance. In the post from a page earlier he literally talked about getting married because that's his only way of getting a romantic partner

https://www.resetera.com/threads/what-do-you-think-about-the-institution-of-marriage-do-you-see-yourself-staying-married-or-having-it-as-a-life-goal.519690/#post-77667453

Messofanego
I'm married and wanted to be, not because of family influence but because I wanted a romantic partner

I thought you get married because you love someone but I guess that's just me.

[Pissy F Benny]

messy is a lucky man, truly.

1. he's from a culture where arranged marriage is part of it saving him from his natural incel life path.

2. his family emigrated to England instead of america, cos if he had access to guns he'd have probably shot some place up as a teen

[Ghoul]

Worst is he acts like his shit doesn’t stink and he’s an ally to all.
Like if anyone has profited from archaic systems in place to control women it’s him.
But he goes around talking like he’s a feminist. If you’re that much of a feminist, let your prisoner free.
Let her have the choice to marry you, instead of your parents sending three goats and some land in Pakistan.

[Taco Bell Tower]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/the-all-new-“south-park-post-covid”-exclusive-event-will-debut-on-november-25-only-on-paramountplus.506355/page-4#post-77748759

i know the creators are American Republicans (so, fascists) so i wanna know how much bigotry and other bullshit science denying etc did they put into this?

if its JUST silly light-hearted comedy like the old episodes and none of their disgusting politics i might try to watch it.

Yes, Matt and Trey, known nazis.

Don’t say words you don’t understand

[Hap Shaughnessy]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/thanksgiving-with-shoes-on.519945/page-2#post-77692194

User Banned (2 months): Inflammatory commentary utilizing denigrative terms, especially considering the context of the subject matter. History of problematic behavior

Of course. Only savages walk around barefoot

[Propagandhim]

  2 months

[Snoopycat_]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/thanksgiving-with-shoes-on.519945/page-2#post-77692194

User Banned (2 months): Inflammatory commentary utilizing denigrative terms, especially considering the context of the subject matter. History of problematic behavior

Of course. Only savages walk around barefoot

Neppy triggered hard cos no designer makes size 12 high heels

[Uncle]

literally 6 posts later someone made the one word post "heathens" which is another thing they used to call indigenous peoples at the time

[Snoopycat_]

I noticed barbarians got thrown in there. Won’t be long before references to Bigfoot appear. Nep’s going to lose her shit

[Taco Bell Tower]

That's a pretty savage ban message.

[Superstar]

User Banned (2 Months): Concern trolling around Muslim representation

I feel kind of conflicted about this. The hijab is absolutely a product of patriarchy so to present it as a positive especially in a feminist context feels distasteful. Sure women in the western world can choose to wear the hijab but let's not pretend this is a choice made in a vacuum.

With that said though, I don't have a problem with character designs like this if it helps serves as representation for Muslim girls and women. They ought to be feel seen even if they do suffer under a patriarchal culture.

Bonus points for pissing off alt-right and conservative dipshits too.

Ehh this is discounting hijabi progressives and feminists. If you are saying hijab is a product of patriarchy, surely that can go for any piece of clothing designed for women. Bras, skirts, bikinis, tops, they're usually designed by men. And often for the male gaze. It's just often hijab is singled out and patronised (usually by white men) as a piece of female clothing placed outside of feminism. Women in general, not just Muslim women, live in patriarchal cultures.

I don't think this is a fair generalization to make, and it's shitty to not trust women who wear a hijab that they are doing it because they genuinely want to.

Please don't single out Muslim women as uniquely oppressed by patriarchy. What you're doing right now is just feeding into the white savior mindset that's condescendingly places Muslim women as some kind of poor ignorant savages that needs to be "saved" by white people and their "enlightened" ways.

Yeah, I was kind of taken aback for a moment and wish I had been able to raise a counterargument earlier. Even putting everyone else's feedback aside, you wouldn't try and shame Catholic nuns for wearing the habit, so I don't think people wearing hijabs should be shamed either.

Maybe my point is not valid and I am saying so bullshit but isn't the social (patiarchy) pressure like the hijab equivalent in the west to women shave themself? or to wear high heels? or to wear make up?

Not even close. Of course there are societal pressure for women in the Western world to dress a certain way, but you need to remember that by and large, the Western world still has less than favorable views towards Muslim people and their cultures. And because of that, they have this tendency to consider their women as "more liberated" than the Muslims. There's also the tendency to downplay or even degrade Muslim women's merits or accomplishments just because they're wearing hijab.

It's just often hijab is singled out and patronised (usually by white men)

wat

[Taco Bell Tower]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/new-covid-19-variant-now-called-omicron-causing-travel-restrictions-in-various-countries.520212/page-4#post-77730240

No offense, but twitter randos probably aren't the place to get info from.

While that's true but he didn't reply to the first one. B-derps hates furries?

[Potato]

User Banned (2 Months): Concern trolling around Muslim representation

I feel kind of conflicted about this. The hijab is absolutely a product of patriarchy so to present it as a positive especially in a feminist context feels distasteful. Sure women in the western world can choose to wear the hijab but let's not pretend this is a choice made in a vacuum.

With that said though, I don't have a problem with character designs like this if it helps serves as representation for Muslim girls and women. They ought to be feel seen even if they do suffer under a patriarchal culture.

Bonus points for pissing off alt-right and conservative dipshits too.

Ehh this is discounting hijabi progressives and feminists. If you are saying hijab is a product of patriarchy, surely that can go for any piece of clothing designed for women. Bras, skirts, bikinis, tops, they're usually designed by men. And often for the male gaze. It's just often hijab is singled out and patronised (usually by white men) as a piece of female clothing placed outside of feminism. Women in general, not just Muslim women, live in patriarchal cultures.

I don't think this is a fair generalization to make, and it's shitty to not trust women who wear a hijab that they are doing it because they genuinely want to.

Please don't single out Muslim women as uniquely oppressed by patriarchy. What you're doing right now is just feeding into the white savior mindset that's condescendingly places Muslim women as some kind of poor ignorant savages that needs to be "saved" by white people and their "enlightened" ways.

Yeah, I was kind of taken aback for a moment and wish I had been able to raise a counterargument earlier. Even putting everyone else's feedback aside, you wouldn't try and shame Catholic nuns for wearing the habit, so I don't think people wearing hijabs should be shamed either.

Maybe my point is not valid and I am saying so bullshit but isn't the social (patiarchy) pressure like the hijab equivalent in the west to women shave themself? or to wear high heels? or to wear make up?

Not even close. Of course there are societal pressure for women in the Western world to dress a certain way, but you need to remember that by and large, the Western world still has less than favorable views towards Muslim people and their cultures. And because of that, they have this tendency to consider their women as "more liberated" than the Muslims. There's also the tendency to downplay or even degrade Muslim women's merits or accomplishments just because they're wearing hijab.

It's just often hijab is singled out and patronised (usually by white men)

wat

Imagine going into bat for ANY religion on the grounds that it's "progressive", let alone the most regressive piece of shit religion responsible for the vast majority of religious violence around the world and where murdering women is literally justified for:

apostasy (leaving Islam to become an atheist or convert to another religion),[10] fasad (mischief in the land, or moral corruption against Allah, social disturbance and creating disorder within the Muslim state)[11][12] and zina (consensual heterosexual or homosexual relations not allowed by Islam)

[Snoopycat_]

The woman in the shop along the road sometimes wears the Jedi outfit. She’s hawt as fuck. Proper Pornhub material. She wears fashionable ones though. All silky and colourful. She’s not one of those weird hairy little Jawas that waddle about the place. Speaking of, I went into a shop last week and there was this girl at the counter, must have been about 16. She had a full on moustache. I felt right sorry for her. Her parents must be absolute cunts to let her walk around like that. Any normal parent would’ve chucked a Gillette at her and gone, Hoy, Red Baron, get that fuckin handlebar sorted

[Sideshow Raheem]

Any time you fellows wish to discuss messyego, the conversation should begin with the video of him eating chicken wings and sucking the juice off his fingers and conclude with the joyous celebration that is his wife's hostage video.

[Taco Bell Tower]

It's how a therapist acts.
 

[Rahxephon91]

They really all trip over themselves to seem like the most “good” person in that female design thread. It’s pathetic.

[clothedmacuser]

They really all trip over themselves to seem like the most “good” person in that female design thread. It’s pathetic.

Exactly.  It's the post-endgame of being so desperate to appear and perform the most.  It's just become a permanent state of "more chlothes = Good design/moral," and "less," being "poor design/bad."  It just becomes an axiom that must be followed without even questioning if it looks good, or too busy, ugly, garish, baroque, affected.  Nope, it's just if it exposes femoral arteries.


Someone spent years to get to the point where they had the freedom to design a dress like this.




They went to school, apprenticed, worked hard, learned about art and materials.  All that for some sweatpant wearing videogamer to say, "sigh." and post this crap.

Alex Chen (Life Is Strange: True Colors) obviously needs to be mentioned here. And Steph (in the background) as well.

If you want to rank clothing by how many bolts of cloth are used go right ahead but quit calling it "design" for gods sake.  You people aren't artists.  You think Mario is political.  You are morons that rate clothing based on how much it covers.  You don't know shit about art.

[clothedmacuser]

It's like criticizing the "design" or architecture of a building based on how strong the aluminum siding is.

It's just another example of how absolutely dull and literal minded they are.



Era taking a life drawing class

[Taco Bell Tower]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/do-you-think-there-will-be-another-civil-war-in-america-in-our-lifetimes.520593/#post-77768862

No most people are too lazy and comfortable to do something like that

So Resetera then.

i think you want people to say yes and is now moving the goal posts. even this vague undefined large scale violence is unlikely. But its so vague you could fit any riot into that.

Read my op completely and say that I am moving goal posts.

"I know you all mean riots but I'm totally not trolling!"

[nobody of note]

Now that all the fake allies have been shouted into submission, the Sebold thread can get back to what really matters: Highlighting what a massive racist the cis white 18 year old rape victim was for misidentifying a Black guy and then saying two Black guys look similar, and what fake allies literally anyone who responded to people railing on the rape victim were.

lol many people on this site always show their ass when cases and threads like this pop up. they cant help but show who they really are. so many folks are literally walking breathing "i have black friends , im an ally"

I've just come to the conclusion that a lot of progressiveness and allyship presented on this forum is largely performative and is done to keep up appearances. You give people here half a chance and a lot of them will show you their asses, as the first half of this thread so painfully shows.

It's crazy to me how fast Era devolves into five minutes hate when someone stack-ranks oppression in the wrong order--and then you get shit like this:

it blows my goddamned mind the only one to do right by this person other than his lawyer, was a movie producer, decades later when the story didn't pass his smell test.

this world is not built on justice or justness. not in any single way. it only exists in some of us as people, that's where it lives. it's the people that make a difference. and so many of us don't even give a shit.

Except, the way the producer tells it, he was mostly just mad they were going to cast a white guy so as not to perpetuate stereotypes:

Oh, one more thing from the Daily Mail article, which pertains to how the executive producer got involved in the first place:

In March this year, the male actor who had been hired to play Broadwater - referred to in Sebold's book as Gregory Madison - called Moncrieff and told her that he didn't want to take the part any more.

The actor, who Mucciante said he did not know the name of, is black and he told Moncrieff that he didn't want to be part of a film that perpetuated the stereotype even though it is what happened to Sebold.

Moncrieff, according to Mucciante, then told the cast and crew they'd be hiring a white man to play the role and Mucciante objected because the facts of the story clearly stated that the rapist was black.

'I understand if it was a work of fiction you might not want to portray the stereotype of a black man raping a white woman but that is the way it actually happened,' he said.

Karen was however adamant that the rapist had to be played by a white man, he said.

'I pushed back on it and they pushed back on me pretty hard.'

Mucciante left the movie and said that was when 'alarm bells' started ringing.

So it seems like he IS intending to sue Sebold.

Maybe, maybe not?  Again, it's Mucciante who's allegedly saying this.  Broadwater's lawyers are more frequently quoted as saying they're going after the state.  We'll see.

Hero Producer only stepped in because a Black actor stepped down from the part from not wanting to perpetuate stereotypes, the people making decided they'd just cast a white guy instead, not viewing the race of the attacker as vital to the overall story, and Hero White Guy Producer was adamant that they should keep the character Black. There's also a massive worthwhile conversation to be had about how the justice system should handle an unreliable rape victim's identification of her attacker, and how things like lineup identifications should take a whole host of things into account.  Then there's the whole cop who thought Broadwater was innocent the whole time and had an idea of who might have really done it, who I guess was just sitting on that for 40 years? This is a shit situation that highlights a ton of systemic issues, but what's really important is writing fanfic about the true evil motivations of the cis white woman and the fake allyship of anyone who forgot that the race dynamics here meant the rape victim shouldn't be accorded any of the normal consideration extended to rape victims (I'm not sure how the ranking would work if she was trans, but since she's cis that's not a concern.)

[Great Rumbler]

blame filler as usual.

filler posting offensive stuff on the bore
must be a day of the week ending in Y

[Transhuman]

The guy's widow and family want people to watch the video so the public knows what happened so it doesn't get swept under the rug. It's not like he got hatched to death or something, that vid isn't going to give people nightmares.

[Don Rumata]

The guy's widow and family want people to watch the video so the public knows what happened so it doesn't get swept under the rug. It's not like he got hatched to death or something, that vid isn't going to give people nightmares.

Much worse stuff gets posted all the time. 
From the various trucks into the crowd footage, or the shootings, 9/11 footage is basically a meme, same with that one video of the two rednecks arguing over a mattress.

I think most "extremely online people" are desensitized to this material, though there's nothing noble behind wanting to see it either, just plain morbid curiosity.

[Transhuman]

I don't even know that i'd call it morbid curiosity. It's an important video, just like any unjust police killing, or Ahmaud Arbery's murder. These videos being visible to the public can force a trial to happen, where it mightn't otherwise.

[Boredfrom]

Random cancelling in a Leak thread

 https://www.resetera.com/threads/rumour-wesker-concept-art-from-resident-evil-4-remake-allegedly-leaked.520680/page-3#post-77783607

[Taco Bell Tower]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/new-covid-19-variant-now-called-omicron-causing-travel-restrictions-in-various-countries.520212/page-10#post-77781075
ZeoVagina:

Just saw this on Facebook from one of the least intelligent people I've ever had the displeasure of interacting with:

"What's that? Biden banned travel from Africa? Surely the left SJW crew is going to start calling that and him racist any second now. RIGHT!?!?"

[Don Rumata]

"His VA status [as voice of Albert Wesker] to sleep with fans".
Such status. 

The guy cleaning the supermarket after-hours has more status than that, at least they can get me free shit close to expiration dates. 

[HaughtyFrank]

Random cancelling in a Leak thread

 https://www.resetera.com/threads/rumour-wesker-concept-art-from-resident-evil-4-remake-allegedly-leaked.520680/page-3#post-77783607

And it's again one of those where the fan goes "well send me a dick pic, hehe"
I don't really know what there's to be upset about when it's mutual

[jorma]

you could make an even better case painting him as the victim where he is being pressured into sending lewds in return for a job.
that predatory bitch is absuing her position of power, clearly! 

[HaughtyFrank]

DP

[SmokyDave]

DP

Edit: related, not safe for anyone except filler:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/so-about-pervert-family.520740/

[joeboy101]

DP

Edit: related, not safe for anyone except filler:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/so-about-pervert-family.520740/

Soooo, let me get this straight. Dude who uses 'savages' for people surrounding footwear gets TWO MONTHS, and the the Dude who posts a porn series trailer gets... his thread closed?

Nothing inconsistent there.

[Taco Bell Tower]

Do not post NSFW content. And especially do not make an entire thread about incredibly inappropriate content.

"Without pming me first!"

[Propagandhim]

DP

Edit: related, not safe for anyone except filler:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/so-about-pervert-family.520740/

Soooo, let me get this straight. Dude who uses 'savages' for people surrounding footwear gets TWO MONTHS, and the the Dude who posts a porn series trailer gets... his thread closed?

Nothing inconsistent there.

How diverse was the porno, though?

 

[HardcoreRetro]

Looked like an aristocrats joke to me.

[Taco Bell Tower]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/lets-go-where-did-it-come-from-and-how-did-it-get-so-ubiquitous.520656/

I feel like the first time I heard someone shouting "Let's go!" was around 3 to 4 years ago, and I didn't think much of it, but since then it's become just a standard American English expression, I feel like it's replaced some standards like "hell yeah" and "all right" as the defacto expression for excited anticipation.

Does anyone know the history? Do YOU "Let's go"? Being a 39 year old man, I feel like if I ever said it they'd throw me in dad jail, but I dunno, what does the hive think?

Because using Google is too hard.

[Nintex]

"His VA status [as voice of Albert Wesker] to sleep with fans".
Such status. 

The guy cleaning the supermarket after-hours has more status than that, at least they can get me free shit close to expiration dates. 

I've seen some of the 'evidence'.

One conversation is literally some chick DM'ing some fan fiction about fucking Jake and Wesker and he leans into it. 

[Ghoul]

I mean pretty much anyone that wants to sleep with you is a fan…

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

Sebold has to be an active racist willfully trying to falsely imprison (any) non-specific Black Man for a crime they 100% definitely knew that they weren't actually responsible for, because otherwise it would show you were wrong to suggest 👏 always 👏 believe 👏 women 👏 means all accusations are automatically true and should be considered to hold the same weight as material evidence just inherently creates way more problems than it solves, and all those bans of people saying exactly that were bullshit, even by era usual bullshit bans standards.

And needless to say, era are never wrong.

[Propagandhim]

The real rapist black guy who raped that white woman needs to sit her down and teach her about implicit racism before she gets raped again and does the same thing (by him, by someone else, i dont' know..but before she causes even more damage to this fragile patchwork we call society).

[HaughtyFrank]

DP

Edit: related, not safe for anyone except filler:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/so-about-pervert-family.520740/

Soooo, let me get this straight. Dude who uses 'savages' for people surrounding footwear gets TWO MONTHS, and the the Dude who posts a porn series trailer gets... his thread closed?

Nothing inconsistent there.

User Banned (Permanent): Deliberately posting NSFW content

It's good to know that the RE mods still listen to Mod Admirals here

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

All three of the mods present at the tribunal who signed off on just shutting the thread and no further consequences must feel pretty silly right now

[Taco Bell Tower]

They should be paying thebire for doing the job for those lazy mods.

[Nintex]

We're literally at the point when a chick DM's: "Woah, your dick must be huge!" and you respond "Yes" they go and claim you have harassed them.

Riotous should be careful.

[Taco Bell Tower]

Screw him, Riotous Sr is the one who has to be very careful.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/bengus-street-fighter-vs-character-story-mode-artist-really-needs-to-learn-how-to-draw-black-people.519324/page-7#post-77745480

Ummm hes Japanese right? What do you expect

This user got a 3 day turned into permanent on the same day 

[clothedmacuser]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/black-man-convicted-of-raping-the-lovely-bones-author-alice-sebold-is-exonerated-39-years-later-see-staff-post.519645/post-77728890


This thread became about black guys saying what movie stars they look like?

[Taco Bell Tower]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/black-man-convicted-of-raping-the-lovely-bones-author-alice-sebold-is-exonerated-39-years-later-see-staff-post.519645/post-77728890


This thread became about black guys saying what movie stars they look like?

Now imagine the state giving this man nothing for all he's lost and it being left up to people like us to make sure this man can take care of himself and hopefully find some measure of happiness for the remainder of his life.

Who the fuck is "us"?  Resetera ain't gonna do squat

[HaughtyFrank]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/black-man-convicted-of-raping-the-lovely-bones-author-alice-sebold-is-exonerated-39-years-later-see-staff-post.519645/post-77728890


This thread became about black guys saying what movie stars they look like?

Posted by Royalan who was very upset that the thread isn't even about Broadwater

[Uncle]

DP

Edit: related, not safe for anyone except filler:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/so-about-pervert-family.520740/

it's usually much more entertaining reading a thread about something horrible you didn't get to see and just basking in the reactions

I just saw a foot get inserted into someone. So that's a thing.

Dude what the fuck!? That's the nastiest 90 seconds I've ever seen 🤢🤮🤢🤮🤢🤮🤢🤮

 

[Taco Bell Tower]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/federal-trade-commission-ftc-pledges-to-investigate-video-game-loot-boxes.83573/page-4#post-77785728

Resettlement Advisor Member

User Warned: Necro-bumping a thread to antagonize another user

From 2018!

[Propagandhim]

https://twitter.com/phenibrah/status/1464459075467448323

https://twitter.com/theanibird/status/1464846925958717442

[HaughtyFrank]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/federal-trade-commission-ftc-pledges-to-investigate-video-game-loot-boxes.83573/page-4#post-77785728

Resettlement Advisor Member

User Warned: Necro-bumping a thread to antagonize another user

From 2018!

Someone sits on a comeback for three years and the mods just lock the thread. Smh

[Potato]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/federal-trade-commission-ftc-pledges-to-investigate-video-game-loot-boxes.83573/page-4#post-77785728

Resettlement Advisor Member

User Warned: Necro-bumping a thread to antagonize another user

From 2018!

I mean, he was right, though!

[FUME5]

Worst is he acts like his shit doesn’t stink and he’s an ally to all.
Like if anyone has profited from archaic systems in place to control women it’s him.
But he goes around talking like he’s a feminist. If you’re that much of a feminist, let your prisoner free.
Let her have the choice to marry you, instead of your parents sending three goats and some land in Pakistan.

After seeing that man eat hot wings there was no way in hell he was ever going to find a partner on his own.

[Drainage]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/lets-go-where-did-it-come-from-and-how-did-it-get-so-ubiquitous.520656/

I feel like the first time I heard someone shouting "Let's go!" was around 3 to 4 years ago, and I didn't think much of it, but since then it's become just a standard American English expression, I feel like it's replaced some standards like "hell yeah" and "all right" as the defacto expression for excited anticipation.

Does anyone know the history? Do YOU "Let's go"? Being a 39 year old man, I feel like if I ever said it they'd throw me in dad jail, but I dunno, what does the hive think?

Because using Google is too hard.

I do know that black folks have been using "let's go" in this way for ages. So, that clues me in on why it's so popular now.

 

[Taco Bell Tower]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/new-covid-19-variant-now-called-omicron-causing-travel-restrictions-in-various-countries.520212/page-12#post-77829369

This is my question. At the risk of displaying my own ignorance, these have got to be the crappiest vaccines I’ve dealt with in my life.

Im not getting boosters for any of those vaccines every 6 months. (I’m pro vaccine of course)

[Nintex]

His additional reasoning for why he thinks the vaccines are crappy is solid.
The biggest issue is that some governments simplified the vaccine to a miracle drug, which it isn't. And they padded the numbers like Nvidia.

For an experimental vaccine with a few corners cut in testing it's helpful to protect the vulnerable but even the people who invented the technology it is based on, don't think it is that suitable for a mass vaccination campaign.
However it's all we got and it beats lying down on your stomach and getting a tube inserted into your throat to prolong the last miserable days of your life.

[HardcoreRetro]

For an experimental vaccine with a few corners cut in testing it's helpful to protect the vulnerable but even the people who invented the technology it is based on, don't think it is that suitable for a mass vaccination campaign.

Where the hell are you getting this crap? Stop just making up garbage.