The Official Psychoanalysis GAF Thread

[Oblivion]

Fabulous backfire:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=441755

What the FUCK is wrong with this guy? It just gets more and more stupid the more he defends himself.

Morn is one of the worst ultra-right wing douchebags on gaf.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=441609

"guys... my faith is wavering"

*20 PAGE THREADS*

agreed with oblivion

<3

[Tasty]

Disagree with Oblivion, obviously.

But yeah that thread was just asking for trouble. Allowed all the dudebros who hate Zelda to jump in and feign disgust at the franchise for "not changing" (meaning not becoming a FPS with bald space marines where Epona is a hovercycle and and the Master Sword is a lightsaber.)

[Himu]

You can't read. No one in the thread asked for that. We were just hoping that, since this is the first zelda of this generation for a dedicated system, it would have grown past the fact it's based on the model of a game made in 1998 when 3d sucked for games of that type. But since then, multiple games have came and went with much better core gameplay (combat for instance) than 3d zelda. Instead, we're stuck with the same lock on shit from 1998, that looks like the same fucking thing but with a new art style.

We expect better.

Kinda like how Mario Galaxy took Mario's core fundementals and made it feel fresh again. I could watch any Mario Galaxy video before I actually played and got excited because it looked FRESH but it was STILL MARIO.

I look at Skyward Sword and I fucking yawn out of my butthole. It looks BORING.

[Barry Egan]

One of the most pitiful excuses for an "outrage" thread that has ever appeared on GAF, and that's saying a lot.

This.  It's a pretty great troll IMO.

[Himu]

For Andrex: Games in the 21st Century

[youtube=560,345]LtC6V2LBIKw[/youtube]

Ninja Gaiden - has lock on but rarely used, full featured combat, players can aim and everything without much help from the game. To make matters even more hilarious, Ninja Gaiden 1 is pretty much set up like a Metroid. It's one big hub world where you gain access to new areas via new items and sometimes abilities. It even has its own "dungeons" (see: the cathedral base).

[youtube=560,345]SiKvJFnRXug[/youtube]

Assassin's Creed - Look familiar? AC has more evolved combat and controls than your modern Zelda.

[youtube=560,345]gwaUIShOM54[/youtube]

God of War - Look at how smooth this game plays. I'm not the biggest fan of God of War but even it is more evolved than 3d Zelda.

[youtube=560,345]WR5DXsi772U[/youtube]

Even Enslaved looks better than Skyward Sword! And it's by Ninja Theory!

Zelda is dated, oldhat, BORING. It has nothing to do with the fact that you solve puzzles and go through dungeons. We expect that with Zelda. But we don't expect is doing it in such a similar fashion for 13 years running, especially when other games often in the same genre, have evolved past what Zelda offers in its core fundamentals. Everyone else has taken what OoT originally did and enhanced it. Modern Zelda takes what OoT did and does a slight tweak but with waggle on top. Waggle sucks.

[Tasty]

At their heart, Mario is an action game and Zelda is a puzzle game. Comparing footage is meaningless since the fun in Zelda comes in solving puzzles for yourself, watching someone else play sudoku is boring as hell.

Skyward Sword is fresh in exactly the ways it needs to be and none of the ways that would derail the series, from what I have seen.

Edit- Wow that is the dumbest post I have ever seen.  Great "examples" of games Zelda should be like.

[fistfulofmetal]

Enslaved is by Ninja Theory, not Team Ninja.

edit: Surprised you didn't post Darksiders

edit2: I've never played a Zelda game for more than an hour or so. i think the longest i've played one actually, is the very first on the VC

[Himu]

At their heart, Mario is an action game and Zelda is a puzzle game. Comparing footage is meaningless since the fun in Zelda comes in solving puzzles for yourself, watching someone else play sudoku is boring as hell.

Skyward Sword is fresh in exactly the ways it needs to be and none of the ways that would derail the series, from what I have seen.

Edit- Wow that is the dumbest post I have ever seen.  Great "examples" of games Zelda should be like.

You once again miss the point. I'm not saying this is how Zelda "should" be like. I'm saying that...look at those videos.

And compare them to this:

[youtube=560,345]2gZzD9FnWlY[/youtube]

And then start to bitch at people for saying Zelda: SS looks like it's from 1998.

Mario Galaxy certainly doesn't look like it's a game from 1996! Zelda: SS looks uninspired shlock with waggle thrown on top. Why should I shell out 50 for that, when I can pay 60 for THIS?

[Himu]

Mario is an action game, Zelda is a puzzle game? Fucking bullshit. Every Zelda has had its fare of action in it. Hell, Zelda 2 pretty much IS an action game in a lot of ways. Don't blame the rest of us for wanting a game that's not stuck in the 90's. Look at that Stalfos fight and tell me it doesn't belong to the 90's. Because it does.

[BlueTsunami]

The Justice League (GAF paedo haven) has been disbanded

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=420001&page=164

[TakingBackSunday]

....



that thread was awesome.  victoria justice is legal AND hot as fuck.

[TakingBackSunday]

that's gay?

[magus]

And then start to bitch at people for saying Zelda: SS looks like it's from 1998.

1998 game are awesome

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]
[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

[perfectnight]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=441804

 

Hilarious thread. Yes, VNs aren't popular in the west because Amerikkkans have short attention spans.

It's not because VNs are terribly written, wish fulfillment fantasies for otakus. Not at all!


e- oh wow @ that Victorious thread.

[magus]

yeah, americans get their terribly written wish fulfillment fantasies from gay vampire novels

the fuck would they need a gameboy for

[perfectnight]

yeah, americans get their terribly written wish fulfillment fantasies from gay vampire novels

the fuck would they need a gameboy for

Which still somehow manages to be a step above that VN trash.

God damn I would rather read terry goodkind's written vomit than Tsukihime. But they still wouldn't do well here even if they weren't filled with anime cliches and whatnot. Who the fuck is going to pay $60 for a semi interactive manga. The gameplay just isn't there.

[perfectnight]

And compare them to this:

[youtube=560,345]2gZzD9FnWlY[/youtube]

Oh god that looks so fucking boring. What use is waggling when the combat system is still the equivalent of mashing A over and over.

[magus]

i don't understand why we have to differentiate between different kind of vampire rape

[brob]

Zelda's waggle combat looks horrible. 

[MCD]

Zelda just needs a harder, more complex combat system.

[magus]

Zelda just needs a harder, more complex combat system.

zelda needs the same thing final fantasy need

a less whiny fanbase

[Himu]

And compare them to this:

[youtube=560,345]2gZzD9FnWlY[/youtube]

Oh god that looks so fucking boring. What use is waggling when the combat system is still the equivalent of mashing A over and over.

i love how the people defending it say that it equates to depth. Yay! Watch enemy, are his swords horizontal?! HIT HIM VERTICAL! Are his swords vertical? HIT HEM HORIZONTAL!

Yay, depth!

 

I don't expect fucking Ninja Gaiden in my Zelda but I do expect something far better than that. If this is an issue of Nintendo not releasing much footage, that's their fault when the game is 3 months shy of release and not one piece of footage looks exciting, inspired or even remotely memorable.

[magus]

i do not care much about zelda but i couldn't imagine it being a better game if it played like ninja gaiden or darksiders,nothing wrong if it plays like wii sports resort kendo mode,as andrex says i too think that zelda is more of a puzzle game,it's true that the first games were more actioney,but as time passed the game has shifted to more puzzley stuff (i'd say link's awakening is the point were it breaks)

the real problem of zelda is that it's always the same stuff,light all the torch to make the treasure chest appear,hit all the switches with the boomerang,bomb the cracked wall,hear the "DUDUDU" like you didn't expect the cracked wall to have something behind,oh no the boss has a big glowing point in it's tail! i wonder what i have to do!

[Himu]

The entire thing screams outdated not just combat. Those games need to be few visioned from the ground up. Also the point in bringing up ninja Gaiden isn't "this is how Zelda should be" but rather "look at all of the alternatives games inspired by 3d Zelda have branched out into and look at where Zelda is. It looks pathetic"

[Mr. Gundam]

Zelda just needs a harder, more complex combat system.

But it's a puzzle game! A puzzle game I tell you!

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Needs more whimsy.

[close]

[EmCeeGrammar]

I've already gone into Asperger mode over why Skyward Sword looks awesome, so I'm just gonna concede to the idiom haters gonna hate.  God forbid its innovations require reading the in depth interviews we've received since E3.

[Himu]

Interviews

[etiolate]

Adding actiony, more complex battles can be a hindrance to these types of games. Many times, most of the enemies act like simple obstacles because they are simple obstacles and that is all that is needed from them. The greater obstacles are bosses and puzzles. Prime 2 made the combat a little too long and I think it threw off the pacing. The knight fights in Wind Waker were fun and a sort of step between boss fight and ordinary dumb foe, but I think these games work well with dumb foes. It's part of the whole feel of these sorts of games. You really aren't a total badass warrior in Zelda or a game like Ico. You're a boy with a sword.

[Stoney Mason]

Adding actiony, more complex battles can be a hindrance to these types of games. Many times, most of the enemies act like simple obstacles because they are simple obstacles and that is all that is needed from them. The greater obstacles are bosses and puzzles. Prime 2 made the combat a little too long and I think it threw off the pacing. The knight fights in Wind Waker were fun and a sort of step between boss fight and ordinary dumb foe, but I think these games work well with dumb foes. It's part of the whole feel of these sorts of games. You really aren't a total badass warrior in Zelda or a game like Ico. You're a boy with a sword.

This.

[Shuri]

Real Talk: Snatcher is actually a pretty terrible game.

[brob]

fighting has never been my preferred bit of zelda. I always get annoyed with Wind Waker for making me fight fools when all I want to do is run around doing side quests and sail the seas.

[cool breeze]

Adding actiony, more complex battles can be a hindrance to these types of games. Many times, most of the enemies act like simple obstacles because they are simple obstacles and that is all that is needed from them. The greater obstacles are bosses and puzzles. Prime 2 made the combat a little too long and I think it threw off the pacing. The knight fights in Wind Waker were fun and a sort of step between boss fight and ordinary dumb foe, but I think these games work well with dumb foes. It's part of the whole feel of these sorts of games. You really aren't a total badass warrior in Zelda or a game like Ico. You're a boy with a sword.

^more or less my one big issue with Darksiders

[Himu]

Adding actiony, more complex battles can be a hindrance to these types of games. Many times, most of the enemies act like simple obstacles because they are simple obstacles and that is all that is needed from them. The greater obstacles are bosses and puzzles. Prime 2 made the combat a little too long and I think it threw off the pacing. The knight fights in Wind Waker were fun and a sort of step between boss fight and ordinary dumb foe, but I think these games work well with dumb foes. It's part of the whole feel of these sorts of games. You really aren't a total badass warrior in Zelda or a game like Ico. You're a boy with a sword.

I don't really expect it to be more actiony but I certainly expect it to evolve. Arbiters grounds in TP was pretty much how I'd like them to take it. You're fighting like 20 skeleton warriors at once. Sure it's easy, but the result is a more menacing, and likewise more threatening Zelda. Arbiters Grounds stands as one of the few Zelda dungeons that actually FEELS like a dungeon. Every video I've seen for SS looks boring in comparison. Maybe it means my game tastes have changed, but I don't think so. I'm not asking they make link a badass, because you're certainly not a badass in Demon's Souls and yet that game has better combat and game fundamentals than your standard modern Zelda. I'm asking they modernize it. I think it's a bullshit excuse to say "well it's about being a boy with a sword!" in a game series where having full hearts can one hit kill an enemy and shoot a fucking flying sword because you're certainly playing a different series than me.

Look at Metroid Prime. That game is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. It's Metroid but far more deep an experience in terms of mechanics, combat, exploration. Saying combat isn't a big thing in zelda is flat out wrong. If you're not exploring or solving puzzles you're fighting. Metroid Prime didn't make Samus a badass but that doesn't stop the game from having complexity.

[magus]

Real Talk: Snatcher is actually a pretty terrible game.

OPEN ->
DOOR

"i can't open the door i have to check my surrounding first"

LOOK ->
SURROUNDING

"people are walking around,there seems to be nobody around"

OPEN ->
DOOR

"somehow the door doesn't open"

LOOK ->
DOOR

"it's a wooden door,you notice something something"

OPEN ->
DOOR

and then the door finaly opens

I don't really expect it to be more actiony but I certainly expect it to evolve.

everytime i read someone saying "i want it to evolve" i read it as "i want them to change it into something i like" i hate it

[Himu]

And what's wrong with that? Your commentary mostly devolved towards that line of thought for about every game you play. You always complain if a game isn't something you like, which is to say every game you play and you have a problem with people critizing one of the biggest franchises in gaming for looking fuck boring? Hypocritical much?

[magus]

nothing wrong with that,but i don't understand why people have to say it like that,like classic gaming is some kind of old ghost we have to shoo away

i mean what kind of distinguished mentally-challenged logic is that a game was great in the 98 but it's not great in the 2010? saying that a game looks like a 1998 game should be a compliment considering how many classics happened during that era!

so in short... bring me ancient dinosaurs relic!

[Mr. Gundam]

I'd play old school turn-based JRPGs on the HD consoles if developers would make them, but people seem to hate them now.

[Himu]

What are you talking about? Link to the Past is an evolution on the original Zelda. Suggesting something evolve does not equate to saying it needs to be entirely different. Nothing wrong with classic games. Nothing in the word "evolution" has any relevance to what you're even talking about.

[Himu]

nothing wrong with that,but i don't understand why people have to say it like that,like classic gaming is some kind of old ghost we have to shoo away

i mean what kind of distinguished mentally-challenged logic is that a game was great in the 98 but it's not great in the 2010? saying that a game looks like a 1998 game should be a compliment considering how many classics happened during that era!

so in short... bring me ancient dinosaurs relic!

Once again, learn to read.

1998, in my opinion, is the best year ever for games. A lot of my favorite games are from 1998.

But 1998...was 1998.

In 1998, 3d games were not really viable for games like Zelda. Nintendo's way of fixing that? Z-targeting. Well guess what? It's 2011 and since Z-targeting's invention, games have pressed on and done much better.

Why settle for 1998 design when I can have something that much better?

Why do you think most rpgs don't have random battles anymore? Because they don't need them anymore. Technology and design has gotten to the point where they're unnecessary.

But please cling to the past.

[magus]

But please cling to the past.

saying that there is nothing wrong into clinging to the past was exactly my point

[Himu]

The problem is: you're clinging to the past for outdated mechanics and features that have since been improved. Your argument is the equivalent of "well, Mario 64 had a camera so why bother changing it? It worked then, it'll work now" That was 1996. This is 2011.

[pilonv1]

@ needs more whimsy

[magus]

well z-targeting combat is still quite functional unlike mario 64 camera and they had the time to remove it and change with something else starting from wind waker... i don't see where is the problem or why it's a problem now?

i mean even darksiders had that and i don't remember anybody complaining about and that was a game released a year ago

[Himu]

Z-targeting, while functional is very outdated, or at the very least, the implementation as seen in that video. Look at that video. What awesome-o wrote is 100% correct. Instead of doing something different and exciting, they ham it up and add waggle on top and you guys are trying convince us this isn't the same ol' Zelda that has been made since 1998?

It's problem to me because fine, Twilight Princess came out in 2006 right when this generation was getting started, so I don't have a problem with that. And it's just not z-targeting I have a problem with either, it's the whole package. We can use the excuse that I'm old and jaded, but I don't think so.

But here we are, the third generation of 3d Zelda. And look at it, and then compare it to its competition. In 1998, if you compared Zelda to its competition, it was leaps and bounds beyond everything else by a very wide girth. Now? It looks an uninspired Gamecube game with 90's era design. Oh great, I have to wave my wiimote to swing on a rope, but at the crux of the matter, it's really disappointing, especially after Mario Galaxy pretty much reinvented Mario.

well z-targeting combat is still quite functional unlike mario 64 camera and they had the time to remove it and change with something else starting from wind waker... i don't see where is the problem or why it's a problem now?

i mean even darksiders had that and i don't remember anybody complaining about and that was a game released a year ago

Z-targeting isn't the problem just a symptom. Even Assassin's Creed has lock on.

[magus]

and you guys are trying convince us this isn't the same ol' Zelda that has been made since 1998?

not me,i'm just here to defend the glorious PSX era!

SONY

[Himu]

psx is my favorite system, but if a modern FF came out with the same features FF7 had (random battles all that bullshit) I'd still raise a stink.

I said the same thing about mega man legends 3 from that demo gameplay. "Wow, I would totally buy that if it were made in 1999"

[youtube=560,345]JDJZsUT1b0M[/youtube]

 

[magus]

I said the same thing about mega man legends 3 from that demo gameplay. "Wow, I would totally buy that if it were made in 1999"

see for me this is kind of a moron logic,if it was good in 1999,it's good now,that's what i meant when i say i hate when people say "THINGS NEED TO EVOLVE!"

[Great Rumbler]

I said the same thing about mega man legends 3 from that demo gameplay. "Wow, I would totally buy that if it were made in 1999"

see for me this is kind of a moron logic,if it was good in 1999,it's good now,that's what i meant when i say i hate when people say "THINGS NEED TO EVOLVE!"

Sonic Adventure 1 was great back in 1999. I absolutely loved it.

Tried to play it again recently and I hated it. The controls are horrible and floaty, the collision detection is awful, the camera might be one of the worst ever in a 3D game, and all the scripting in the levels is stupid and the exact opposite of fun.

So, yeah, times change, bro.

[Himu]

The problem is that 3d gaming is in constant rotation for new mechanics because it's a far more touchy way of making games compared to 2d. So unless the 3d game back in the late 90's is utterly simplistic to the point where it doesn't really matter (Wipeout, Ridge Racer, Crash Bandicoot, Intelligent Qube, Devil Dice for instance) your point makes no sense. Tomb Raider may have been cool back in 1996 but those games are trash now.

[brob]

Sonic Adventure was ass back when it came out Rumbler, don't kid yerself.

[Great Rumbler]

Sonic Adventure was ass back when it came out Rumbler, don't kid yerself.

True or not, that didn't change how I felt about it back then.

[brob]

bring me this pre-pubescent rumbler and I will argue with him.

[Phoenix Dark]

Sonic Adventure was amazing at the time...

[Great Rumbler]

Sonic Adventure was amazing at the time...

*high-five*

[brob]

by '99 I had played all the good crash bandicoot games, at least one spyro game and mario64. Sonic Adventure was poop and y'alls some tasteless motherfuckers.

[Phoenix Dark]

Back then I thought Sonic Adventure shat on Mario 64.

[brob]

at least you realize now what a turd it is. all's well that ends well, as they apparently say.

[Tasty]

The entire thing screams outdated not just combat. Those games need to be few visioned from the ground up. Also the point in bringing up ninja Gaiden isn't "this is how Zelda should be" but rather "look at all of the alternatives games inspired by 3d Zelda have branched out into and look at where Zelda is. It looks pathetic"

The point is that Ninja Gaiden is a completely different genre and I highly doubt it was much inspired by Zelda. Certainly not more than the Ninja Gaiden NES games. Your comparisons are misguided at best and purposely disingenuous at worst.

I would instead compare new Zelda games to other "Zelda-like" games and see what it can learn from them, like Okami or Darksiders. What do those games do that Zelda doesn't?

Besides that, the combat in Skyward Sword is built around MotionPlus. If that's not your cup of tea that's fine but the combat will literally be the best motion combat ever in a video game. That excites me, personally. As for the enemy patterns, we've already seen more variations of vertical/horizontal slashes to kill enemies blocking horizontally/vertically. I'm sure the enemies will get more varied as the game goes on.

Finally, Zelda is usually a 30- to 60-hour long game. We've probably seen less than 2% of it at this point. You blame Nintendo "for not releasing footage" but that's how it has to be. We saw way too much of Twilight Princess, and most of what we saw didn't even make it into the game.

[Himu]

The first Ninja Gaiden CAN be classified as action adventure with an emphasis on the action side of things. There are multiple points where the action completely slows down to a halt and you just do a bunch of platforming.

And whether it's in a different genre or not is irrelevant. Demon's Souls is in a different genre, and guess what, many still find it comparable to Zelda due to the sword and shield combo and yet DS has far more deep combat than Zelda.

"The best motion combat ever in a video game" just made me barf in my mouth. For a game of its pedigree, Zelda SS looks like dog shit.

[brob]

throw it all out and start from scratch. dude in green, some lady princess and a big mean pig-dude and some triforce. make a game.

Then again I was never the biggest Zelda fan to begin with. Wind Waker is my favorite of the console ones. because of the sailing. so, yeah...