Pro Wrasslin' Thread: I don't know what I just saw

[bork]

Sin Cara was a Triple H move, too.

.....

[Himu]

Not every idea is going to work you negative nancy.

[bork]

Not every idea is going to work you negative nancy.

They don't have ANY ideas that are working.   

Sin Cara was a Triple H move, too.

.....

Sin Cara is a great talent and has major popularity in Mexico. It was a good hire, especially when he's improved via his pairing with Rey.

He's clearly not been able to adjust to the WWE watered-down style and has already gotten himself suspended for drug violations and injured himself several times. 

WWE still sucks, guys.  That's the norm for them now. 

[Himu]

Holy shit

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=playbookfandom&id=16639

[Himu]

Not every idea is going to work you negative nancy.

They don't have ANY ideas that are working.   

 

Cm punk and rock feud is pretty good so far. Shield owns, tag team division is fun, Cesaro is booked very consistently and is awesome week after week, nxt is great.

It is pretty clear week in and week out you don't like anything about wwe. Watch nxt or just stop watching wwe and watch new japan and roh.

You say it is shit when anyone with sense would realize they are slowly changing everything about their format: by rebuilding the tag division, slowly dismantling the diva division and rebuild it, introducing new talent and giving them major main event storylines as they prepare for the future. Only an idiot would be unable to see this.

You see Sin Cara as a failure on Triple H's part? How? Like shark said it was a good intl business move and by partnering with Rey he will learn to adapt to the WWE style. Rey had to go through the same thing when he came to the company.

It is like you expect it to get better instantly. Fucking smarks.

[bork]

GONNA DROP THE PIPE BOMB ON HIMU!

Not every idea is going to work you negative nancy.

They don't have ANY ideas that are working.   

 

Cm punk and rock feud is pretty good so far.

What feud?  IT JUST STARTED.     It's been less than one week.

Shield owns,

They had a great PPV match.  And that's it.  They have been doing nothing on TV since.

tag team division is fun,

It's mediocre at best right now.  Still better than it used to be, though, I'll give you that!

Cesaro is booked very consistently and is awesome week after week,

  Are you kidding me?  He's stuck in midcard hell and is now feuding with ultra-no-talent-KHALI.   

It is pretty clear week in and week out you don't like anything about wwe. Watch nxt or just stop watching wwe and watch new japan and roh.

That's not true.  I think most of it is garbage (which it is), but there are some things I like.  You have already flip-flopped in this thread, starting it out all hyped up for the WWE, then calling it mediocre, and now you have a hard-on for it again for whatever reason. 

I can't remember- did you watch wrasslin' back in the 80s/90s?  If not, maybe that's why you don't hate what's on there now.  It's total crap.  I think it HAS improved in some ways, but it is still grade A wrestlecrap all the way.

You say it is shit when anyone with sense would realize they are slowly changing everything about their format:

They are not "slowly changing everything about their format."  They have made it worse by making RAW three hours, and their ratings have been going DOWN since they did this.

by rebuilding the tag division,

Again, I'll give you this.  They actually have some tag teams again.

slowly dismantling the diva division and rebuild it,

LOL.  It is not being "dismantled."  People have QUIT.     The divas division usually sucks and at this point can be pretty much ignored.  They might have had something with Beth Phoenix and Kharma, but both are gone.

introducing new talent and giving them major main event storylines

They brought in Ryback, who is still too green, cannot cut a decent promo, and has no stamina (hence why he was taken out for so long during the awesome Shield PPV match), and thrust him into the main event picture for a bit.  You'll notice that he is now completely out of the title picture, and this is for a good reason.  He's not ready.  Maybe they'll end up moving him to Smackdown! when people grow tired of the "feed me more" chant.

as they prepare for the future. Only an idiot would be unable to see this.

Thanks, wrasslin' mark!

You see Sin Cara as a failure on Triple H's part? How? Like shark said it was a good intl business move and by partnering with Rey he will learn to adapt to the WWE style. Rey had to go through the same thing when he came to the company.

He is a failure.  Sin Cara was huge in Mexico and has flopped here.  He is going to stay in the midcard after the wellness policy shit that happened to him, too.  Rey Mysterio absolutely did not go through the same thing when he moved from WCW to WWE.  He could actually cut a PROMO and even ended up getting the title (and was then booked horribly, surprise surprise!).

It is like you expect it to get better instantly. Fucking smarks.

I expect it to get better after more than a decade of crap, yes.

You know what the WWE actually plans to do to fix their declining ratings?   

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/WWE_News_3/article_67753.shtml (taken from Variety.com)

At this week's CES media conference in Las Vegas, WWE executive Perkins Miller revealed that WWE plans to expand their "WWE Active" mobile App to help offset declining TV ratings. This would especially apply to three-hour Raws.

Perkins said that in addition to running special voting, such as for the Slammy Awards, WWE plans to expand live streaming of video content during Raw, potentially offer games to win points while watching WWE TV, implement a social media element into the software, and offer other content that will prevent viewers from changing the channel.

Perkins said the App "enables our fans to stay completely connected to the show and stay glued to the couch throughout our commercial breaks through the entire show. It's a really powerful tool to sustain a rating."

The plan comes at a time when Raw was riding a 20-show streak of third hour viewership declining from the second hour.

Regarding the expansion of content available on the App, Perkins said WWE CEO Vince McMahon "is so content-focused, he's even said that the content on the second screen can be as good as you can see on television."

Yes, the BIG FIX is AN APP! 

[Himu]

[bork]

[bork]

[bork]

[Himu]

God I hate people who dissect and quote shit line for line.

[Himu]

Anyways, Bork, as usual, you're wrong. Cesaro does not have a feud with Khali and has been extremely well booked for months, the tag team division is just getting started as they're building up their tag teams without Team Hell No to support it, Sin Cara is a failure but your initial point was that Sin Cara being a failure is a slight on Triple H when picking up Mistico is a good business move failure or not. Rock vs Punk has had one tv appearance so far, and yet it still has heat.

Your complaints mostly seem to be,"WHY ISN'T IT GOOD NOW?" When it is clear to pretty much everyone else that they are slowly improving the thing. In the past year we have had Cesaro, The Shield, Ryback, and Big E introduced to the roster and placed in near good mid card and main event roles. WWE is clearly trying to create new talent and superstars. I said in that original post they've introduced new talent, and you only concentrate on Ryback. Cute.

Why don't you do us a favor and stop watching WWE programming? If it has been bad for more than a decade, why do you continue to watch? Do what I did and take a hiatus.

I'm with bork on this, but I do realize that it's mostly cause wrestling just isn't for me anymore. Yet I still follow it every now and again cause I used to be huge into it.

If you're with Bork please tell me what is going on in WWE tv currently so I know that you're at least knowledgeable and not agreeing with him out of spite and ignorance.

[bork]

God I hate people who dissect and quote shit line for line.

If you're with Bork please tell me what is going on in WWE tv currently so I know that you're at least knowledgeable and not agreeing with him out of spite and ignorance.

Holy shit, you really are a mark!      

[Himu]

That's not true.  I think most of it is garbage (which it is), but there are some things I like.  You have already flip-flopped in this thread, starting it out all hyped up for the WWE, then calling it mediocre, and now you have a hard-on for it again for whatever reason. 

I can't remember- did you watch wrasslin' back in the 80s/90s?  If not, maybe that's why you don't hate what's on there now.  It's total crap.  I think it HAS improved in some ways, but it is still grade A wrestlecrap all the way.

Naw, I didn't flip flop, it's just...inconsistent, but they're clearly trying and I get a lot of enjoyment at least once a week from their programming, just not on Raw. Some weeks are good, some are really middling. Sometimes the writing and booking drives me batshit, but I still find it entertaining. I'm open-minded about the future, especially because of NXT, the handling of The Shield, the handling of Ryback in recent months, and Cesaro. Their use of talent from the indies and developmentals has been spot on. Talent wise, I don't think there has ever been a point in the company's history where they have had as much pure workers assembled as they do now. 2013 could be a fantastic year if utilized well.

As for your second question, I started watching wrestling in the 80's/early 90's but didn't become a huge fan until 1997. I watched WWF Attitude Era and WCW every week, went to local independent shows;etc. and I think people put the 90's, particularly the late 90's on a ridiculously stupid pedestal. You constantly complain in this very thread that the titles mean nothing currently, but in the late 90's, titles changed every two weeks.

Here's some real talk: Internet wrestling community warriors who parade the Attitude Era as perfection are nothing more than nostalgia addled idiots.

1999 WWF was fucking awful. 1999 WCW was fucking awful. The fuckery was high. Storylines rarely had endings, NWO certainly didn't have a good ending and it was one of the biggest stables in the history of wrestling. Fucking Wolf Pac? Really? Latino World Order? NWO 2000 with Jeff fucking JARRETT?

- The Union stable. Haha. Remember this? You probably don't. Mick Foley, Big Show, Ken Shamrock...Test? Haha. That fizzled out fast! Shit.
- Owen Hart comes back as the Blue Blazer? What the FUCK.  SHIT
- Interferences or run ins EVERY SINGLE MATCH IS A DQ. Why? Who the fuck cares why? SHIT
- Let's make the belts mean jack shit by having them change hands every two weeks! Kofi Kingston having the IC belt has more prestige. Fuck outta here with that notalgia shit. SHIT
- Storylines were routinely dropped at the flip of a hat (aforementioned Union). SHIT
- THIS is what you thought was good: <-- SHIT!

There's your Attitude Era.

But naw, late 90's pro wrestling was just perfect, mayne.

Fucking nostalgia tards. And you talk about how bad WWE is now? Maybe it's just that you're older, or maybe it's the fact that deep down you just really can't hack the pro wrestling WWE style anymore.

My overall point is that current WWE is not as bad as you think it is, and more than that, it's certainly on an upswing. But no, you have to go on about how terrible it is, week in, week out. Even I, with the acknowledgement that it can be average at times, see the potential and keep watching because I'm entertained. Please exit this thread until you can actually contribute instead of being a nostalgia 90's fellatio tard. The real kicker is the pretense that you are right because wrestling used to be so much better! when it also used to be so much worse.

I remember WWF being so bad in 2000/2001 that I just stopped watching it. It's okay breh, if you think it's terrible do what normal human beings do. Masochism ain't healthy.

[bork]

^^^^

I like that you just pick out some of the bad shit from what was years of weekly two-four hour programming.   

There were plenty of bad things back then, too.  Where do you see me waxing nostalgia?  I said that it's sucked for over a decade.

Anyways, Bork, as usual, you're wrong. Cesaro does not have a feud with Khali

And you're asking Exodust if he's watching this shit?   

and has been extremely well booked for months,

He is stuck in the midcard doing nothing! 

the tag team division is just getting started as they're building up their tag teams without Team Hell No to support it, Sin Cara is a failure but your initial point was that Sin Cara being a failure is a slight on Triple H when picking up Mistico is a good business move failure or not.

It isn't a good business move when the talent you bring in can't do anything right. 

Your complaints mostly seem to be,"WHY ISN'T IT GOOD NOW?"

My complaint is "why can't they improve this crap after YEARS of garbage?"  And the answer is "Vince McMahon has lost it and won't step down/PG sucks."

When it is clear to pretty much everyone else that they are slowly improving the thing.

Is that why their ratings have been dropping?   Who is "everyone else?"  It's just you saying this.

In the past year we have had Cesaro, The Shield, Ryback, and Big E introduced to the roster and placed in near good mid card and main event roles.

Do you realize that all of those guys except Cesaro have been in those roles for only like 1-2 months?  We already went over this in the last couple of posts.  Ryback and The Shield's pushes are already deflated and...Big E.?  Are you serious?  Dude has been on TV for a few weeks and just stands around doing some interference for Dolph Ziggler. 

WWE is clearly trying to create new talent and superstars. I said in that original post they've introduced new talent, and you only concentrate on Ryback. Cute.

I also covered The Shield and Cesaro in my last reply.   

Why don't you do us a favor and stop watching WWE programming? If it has been bad for more than a decade, why do you continue to watch? Do what I did and take a hiatus.

Who is "us?"  What is with this "us" stuff again?  It's just YOU.  Stop getting your panties in a bunch because someone doesn't agree with you on how the sports-entertainment soap opera is faring.

[Himu]

Lyte Edge post on why Attitude Era 2 minute wrestling matches is better than this



In

3

2

1

[Himu]

Let's prop up 90's stables as being the only good wrestling stables because I'm nostalgia addled taco.

[Himu]

"WWE SUCKS!"

< refuses to watch developmental matches



< is a distinguished mentally-challenged fellow

[bork]

Psst...Himu...I didn't start watching WWF again, after a big hiatus...until 1999.   

Psst...Himu...we're talking about the WWE.  Specifically RAW.  Not FCW (which doesn't exist anymore, derp).

[bork]

You totally nailed it, Exodust. Agreed on all points.

[Himu]

I honestly do not care to argue with you anymore, Bork. Watching Raw, Smackdown, Main Event, and NXT every week, I get ample amount of passion, love, and technical prowess, and talent from the WWE shows I watch. I'm thoroughly entertained and have not been this entertained with WWE in ten years. I enjoy it, just like how I enjoy RoH and New Japan's recent PPV. I get a lot of why I watch wrestling (mostly the wrestling more so than storylines) than from watching WWE programming and I honestly don't care if you think it is so terrible. Just spare me and the rest of the thread your constant mewling every time you disagree.

[bork]

Cop-out reply to one-sided argument, Exodust's fantastic reply ignored

Just spare me and the rest of the thread your constant mewling every time you disagree.

No.  This thread is for discussion.  Stop getting riled up because people's opinions differ from yours.  The only only arguing here is you, with "NO YOU'RE WRONG" posts.  I'm not doing that.  Exodust isn't doing that.  It's just you.  Chill out, relax, and let's talk wrassle.

[Himu]

You do realize that everything you dissed about the Attitude Era is still prevalent in this one right? Now lets see what the Attitude Era had over this one:

-Much more charismatic wrestlers who were bigger and better draws than 99% of the wrestlers now.

- Every belt got better exposure than it did now.

- Storylines were not exactly better but were definitely more unpredictable making for better TV.

- Most if not all wrestlers were at least decent which led to better matches.

- The Main Event was much bigger, broader and had better wrestlers.

- Faces weren't the only ones who won clean.

- Heels were more vile and managed to draw a lot of heat.

- More wrestlers were put over than buried in that era.

- Say what you will about the Attitude era, but this is wrestling. It's more fun to see people trash talk and have brawls with blood and shit than whatever stupid PG rated Cena wankfest we got now.

- Despite how it cared more about soap opera like shit, we had actual big matches on Raw more often with title changes that mattered.

- What do you mean the belts lost more clout then? You have a fucking spinner belt where a wrestler who got big in 2005 has already won it over 12 times. Hell you have two world championships now.

- Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Undertaker, Triple H, The Rock, Kurt Angle and Mankind was probably the best main event roster of all time.

- There was a reason that crowd poped more and cared more about wrestlers back then. They put on better matches and were a thousand times the showman these ones are.

- I'll give that after the fingerpoke of doom WCW fell off hard, especially with that stupid Jeff Jarrett era and the idiotic Millionaires Club face faction. But WCW from the start of NWO to the rise of Goldberg is easily some of the best wrestling on TV. You had the Cruiser Weight division, international wrestlers, factions feuding against each other like gangs, Sting, Goldberg, NWO, DDP and more in the main event. Most of WCW's downfall can be attributed to Kevin Nash's terrible writing and a mishandled Bret Hart. And yet it still got more and better crowd reaction than this WWE product.

Yeah please use the nostalgia card, cause that always works. The fact of the matter is that yes bad shit in Wrestling was always there, but even the bad was entertaining, and i'd take that over the whole lot of boring the WWE is now.

I love Attitude Era.

I just hate how fans put it on a pedestal when it was highly flawed which they present as a pristine era of pro wrestling; it wasn't.

Most wrestlers back then weren't even highly technical. What are you talking about? The AE was mostly about hardcore wrestling, which is purely spots and bumps, not actual "wrestling" nor a display of technical prowess. The Rock didn't have a diverse move set. Stone Cold did not have a diverse move set. Most of the wrestlers now are pretty talented and can do a lot of cool shit, but the problem lies in the booking. The new talent is great as well. You're not going to convince me that Sting or Hogan having the belt is more exciting than CM Punk doing a ladder match on free tv. You just can't.

You mention most of the wrestlers were decent which led to better matches, but again, if we're talking about WWF and not WCW, WWE currently has more talented wrestlers under their staff than they did compare to 1998, and most of the matches in the AE were short, squash matches in place of soap opera hijinks and theatrics. Meanwhile, Dolph Ziggler and Sheamus put on an almost 30 minute match on Main Event just the other day. Oops. Better backtrack a bit, Wrath.

Storylines not being predictable? I'm not sure about that. The storylines are always predictable. Or do you mean, the random shit like Austin getting ran over? Today's problems are the lack of actual feuds and heat surrounding a feud, which is why the Punk x Rock thing is going well with me. It's pretty hard to take a feud seriously when you have JOHN CENA smiling all the time.

Every belt got exposure, but belts were also currency. Today's months long reigns have plenty of exposure. Antonio Cesaro acting his part as United States Champion and shit talking is great. I don't see what's wrong it. The problem mostly lies in the star that holds the belt; the star makes the belt, not vice versa and WWE right now lacks real stars. Well, they lack the potential to MAKE stars as that is an infinite well. But after years of having just John Cena be the main guy, and a floundering mid card, they really don't have the means now. That's why they're employing all this new talent. So they're certainly trying.

That said, I'll agree with you in regards to heels getting more heat, better feuds, and wrestlers more willing to put people over. Also, yes, blood is great.

I'm not saying today's era is better than AE, because it isn't. But I'm sick and tired of people mentioning it despite its flaws and today's WWE is not nearly as bad as people say it is.

Perhaps my opinion is skewed because it seems you guys only watch Raw. If I only watched Raw, I'd probably think the same thing.

My main point is that that today's WWE is at the very least, entertaining. I don't understand how any pro wrestling fan can dispute otherwise, unless you only watch Raw. With the recent signing of Generico and more, it's a good time to be a WWE fan. Don't like? Watch RoH or New Japan. Or better yet, NXT.

[Himu]

Cop-out reply to one-sided argument, Exodust's fantastic reply ignored

Just spare me and the rest of the thread your constant mewling every time you disagree.

No.  This thread is for discussion.  Stop getting riled up because people's opinions differ from yours.  The only only arguing here is you, with "NO YOU'RE WRONG" posts.  I'm not doing that.  Exodust isn't doing that.  It's just you.  Chill out, relax, and let's talk wrassle.

My problem isn't your opinion. It is how you present it: the constant cyncism.

We were talking about Generico being signed to WWE and how it was an awesome move from Triple H. Then you post something about Sin Cara, as if that is proof of anything, when Triple H is behind a myriad of some of the best talent pick ups and storylines recently: including The Shield and tag team revival.

By your language, it gives off an air that nothing will please you, despite the very clear idea that the company is trying. They are scouring RoH and PWG for indie talent, they are going after international wrestling stars like Sin Cara (failed) and Alberto Del Rio (success) to secure some international success. They are graduating their NXT headliners to the main program and getting them involved in the main event, or if not that, building them up so that they eventually reach the main event. They have shifted from Cena and gave CM Punk an over year long title reign. They are shifting from big, bad guys to smaller men like Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, Antonio Cesaro, Seth Rollins, and Dean Ambrose. They are rebuilding their tag division.

Clearly, to anyone with a brain, WWE is attempting to secure their future. And I think it's fun to watch.

So they're trying. And every time news is posted that they're trying, you come out with some negative cynicism.

That is not discussion. It is repetition.

[Himu]

Anyways, from NXT, I think these guys are the future of WWE and have a lot of charisma. I think NXT is a good idea of what HHH plans for WWE once he takes over and turns it back into a full fledged wrestling company. My opinion at least.

Bo Dallas



Look at this mother fucker. RUNNNNNNNNNN!

Highlight:



This guy has match psych down and he is only 21.

The Ascension



I'm a big fan of dedicated tag teams and not tag teams that feel like they're just singles wrestlers teaming up for a few months. These guys have "it".

Highlight:

I think given how fast they've successfully put Damien Sandow, Antonio Cesaro, Ambrose, Rollins, Reigns, Big E, the Primetime Players...they'll probably put these guys in the main roster some time this year.

Like I said, it's a pretty exciting time. With the new tag team division I really hope to see The Ascension successful.

[fistfulofmetal]

uh i'm pretty sure Ascension is kaput because one dude got arrested lol

[Mandark]

Haven't watched a WWE program in years, but I can't imagine it's more entertaining than seeing Himu lose his shit in this thread.

[Himu]

It's not. I always aim to please.

[Mandark]

burying some former WCW stars

They seemed to put a premium on grooming the homegrown guys, maybe from scars left by the talent exodus to WCW in the mid-late 90's.  Certainly seemed like they were more comfortable with guys who had come up through the system, or who identified as WWE guys, rather than wrestlers who would always be keeping their options open (ironic since all the talent are "independent contractors" IIRC).

I stopped watching around the time that guys like Orton and Cena were getting a foothold in the midcard.  There was definitely a standard WWE style you could see in how those guys wrestled, along with Brock Lesnar, Batista, Shelton Benjamin & Charlie Haas, etc.  Maybe not the movesets so much, but they all threw their fake punches the same way, raised their free arm really high for Irish whips, stuff like that.  One of the things I really enjoyed about wrestling was the different regional and personal styles that these guys developed, and it had started to feel more and more homogenized.

Also, wrassling always has the curse of trying to produce 4+ hours of new TV every week, written by guys who aren't exactly David Simon.  There's a certain amount of crappiness baked into the format.

[Himu]

Oh yeah, WWE fucked up a whole lot.

Their biggest fuck up was their inability to create new superstars in stead of their poster boy Cena. I tried to get back into wrestling in um...two consecutive years: 2008 and 2009. After years of watching every now and then to see what's going on, I went back to watching it every week. I thought some things were good like the CM Punk and Jeff Hardy feud and it was always great seeing my GOAT (HBK) teach those new kids how to do business. That said, it felt like they were just floundering. My friends watched wrestling still, so I still had my pulse on it and I didn't get interested again until 2011 and by 2012 (when I made this thread) I started to see potential and manage to enjoy it again, though it was still far from ideal.

To be fair, I think WWE has had a rougher time period. When I first started getting WWF around 1995-1996, it was mostly crap but it had AWESOME main eventers. It seems every few decades WWE has a talent problem, and have to steal talent from competing organizations.

I also agree on the writing. I think that's all on Stephanie's creative control. The writing is noticeably bad, and the booking even worse. But there are good storylines (I really like the Shield and Ryback thing, CM Punk's championship has been a blast, I'm keen on Team Hell No's humble beginnings as a team that had conflict transforming into the duo of team work they are now, Big Show and Sheamus' feud was FIRE, and Alberto Del Rio's face turn was emotional as it was charming). There were recent firings a few months for writers, and I think the writing since then has noticeably improved in the past 6 months.

If anything, the flaws mostly come out when John Cena is involved. Fuck that guy.

As Fistful and I were saying at the beginning of the thread, Raw is so much better when Cena is NOT on.

[Himu]

I stopped watching around the time that guys like Orton and Cena were getting a foothold in the midcard.  There was definitely a standard WWE style you could see in how those guys wrestled, along with Brock Lesnar, Batista, Shelton Benjamin & Charlie Haas, etc.  Maybe not the movesets so much, but they all threw their fake punches the same way, raised their free arm really high for Irish whips, stuff like that.  One of the things I really enjoyed about wrestling was the different regional and personal styles that these guys developed, and it had started to feel more and more homogenized.

I agree with this a lot and why I found it so boring when I tried to get back into it in 2008. I think it's better now, but it's not like the guys go all the way either. It depends on the wrestler, and it feels like they're trying to differentiate the wrestlers a bit though there's still some of that same-y moveset thing. I think this is because a lot of the guys I'm thinking of wrestled in the indies for a better part of 10 years, so that carries over, and on FCW/NXT they're allowed to still retain their styles (albeit in a limited capacity).

[Himu]

Like how in a tag match there's always a dude crawling to get a tag while the next guy runs over the other team when he does. WWE needs to realize sometimes you need a squash and even a normal match with no drama to make the good ones look even better.

I fucking hate this and completely agree.

It depends on the match and even the belt.

It's why I disagree with Lyte so much on how Antonio Cesaro has been booked. His matches are not predictable and he wrestles against a diverse set of players every week. The big problem with WWE now is that the main card is smaller than it should be, so you end up seeing the same guys wrestle for the belt week in and week out. Cesaro doesn't have this. He's always going up against someone different.

burying some former WCW stars

They seemed to put a premium on grooming the homegrown guys, maybe from scars left by the talent exodus to WCW in the mid-late 90's.  Certainly seemed like they were more comfortable with guys who had come up through the system, or who identified as WWE guys, rather than wrestlers who would always be keeping their options open (ironic since all the talent are "independent contractors" IIRC).

I stopped watching around the time that guys like Orton and Cena were getting a foothold in the midcard.  There was definitely a standard WWE style you could see in how those guys wrestled, along with Brock Lesnar, Batista, Shelton Benjamin & Charlie Haas, etc.  Maybe not the movesets so much, but they all threw their fake punches the same way, raised their free arm really high for Irish whips, stuff like that.  One of the things I really enjoyed about wrestling was the different regional and personal styles that these guys developed, and it had started to feel more and more homogenized.

Also, wrassling always has the curse of trying to produce 4+ hours of new TV every week, written by guys who aren't exactly David Simon.  There's a certain amount of crappiness baked into the format.

Couldn't have said it any better myself, fantastic post man. I forgot how every match started getting more predictable too. Like how in a tag match there's always a dude crawling to get a tag while the next guy runs over the other team when he does. WWE needs to realize sometimes you need a squash and even a normal match with no drama to make the good ones look even better.

Also agreed on most of what you said Himuro, I've always been on and off with wrestling even when it was good but I kept hovering around it cause it was always interesting. Now i'm wondering what have been the great matches from after WM24 cause I'm interested and i have the free time to justify it.

Which one was WM24? I've watched some stuff on youtube over the years, and netflix is a fantastic resource. Since you're an Undertaker fan watch The Streak, which has all of his WM matches documented, even WM28's match with HHH.

[Himu]

edit: triple post

[Himu]

I agree with what you said about characters. To me, a character or gimmick is really important and it's probably why the new blood is winning me over so much. We have Antonio Cesaro, a Swedish smug elitist who shits on American culture. It's a time tested formula, but he hits it out of the park. We have Damien Sandow, your intellectual savior, who comes down the ramp in a bathrobe, sports bright pink trunks, quizzes the audience for their knowledge on intellectual matters (I'm big on involving the crowd in that way), and has a goofy ass finisher where he throws his arms up like a huge fruitcake. We have Dean Ambrose, a guy who seems psychotic and hell bent on fighting and kicking ass, no matter what. We even have the Ryback, as stupid as his gimmick is and is a Goldberg retread.

I'm big on gimmicks and I'm big on characters. It's why I find these guys so much more interesting than fucking...Randy...Orton.

As for your issue with main event larger than life booking, I think they're working on that. Last year they had Cena vs Rock and pimped that for like a full calendar year. They did the same thing with Rock and Punk at Rumble. Lesnar and Cena was booked as a must see too.

Good job on mentioning Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels. My favorite wrestling feud.

[Himu]

Omg

Man dark, wrath, Bork watch tonight's Smack down and lemme know what you think.

[Himu]

Rock brought his A game

[Himu]

Forgot to mention, finally watched New Japan Wrestle Kingdom 7.





Good shit.

[parallax]

Forgot to mention, finally watched New Japan Wrestle Kingdom 7.

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

Good shit.

kinda makes me wish low ki wasnt a primadonna in the e. but i know he would have been wasted.

[Himu]

My impression:

- Big Show/Booker/Alberto intro is fire. Big Show has been a great heel the past few months. Entire locker room (kayfabe) hates him. Alberto face turn has been amazing.

- Cesaro vs orton was.great. Good bumps, didn't think Antonio could do Swiss Death on someone as tall as Orton. Orton sold it well and got MASSIVE air. Shield run in unexpected, need to progress their storyline.

- Khali/Natalya/Hornswoggle vs Ziggler/aj/Big E was entertaining as fuck. You asked for tag squash matches. Welp. Ziggler not being able to handle Khaki and tagging in his GIRLFRIEND was lol. aj BITING Natalyas knees is the best counter to the sharpshooter I have ever seen. I wanted to see.Big E.give Big Ending to Khali. Big Ending is fine, but it is controversial. Half people love it, half people think it is lame. Starting to love this Ziggler stable as fuckery and comedy is high. Big E is fucking hilarious.

- CM Punk promos were money. Feud owns.

- 3mb promo was hilarious. Fuck yes. "My mom says we have a 10% chance of winning the Rumble"

- Rock/Rhodes Scholars segment was amazing. Fuck I love Damien Sandow and that was classic Rock in that promo and not the bullshit we got in the Cena feud or on Monday. Rock should use comedy against comedic characters not against serious characters like Punk.

- 3mb vs Sheamus

- Team Hell No vs.Prime time Players....eh. it was okay.

-MAIN EVENT WAS HOT FIRE.

- No Cena.

Show was great and best Smack down in a lonnng time. Show was great from top to bottom with great matches, great promos, and a wicked main event.

[Himu]

WM? Dude we are lucky for this to continue past Rumble.

[fistfulofmetal]

CM Punk is gonna be a heel for a long time. Him being a heel at champ? That lasts until Elimination Chamber at the latest.

[Himu]

For Fistful:




AJ WARDROBE MALFUNCTION


MORE WRESTLE KINGDOM

[Himu]

Big Show has finally found 'it' and it's great. I thought he was the fucking worse talent the WWE had in employment for years. But his heel run has been fucking rad. All his matches have largely been great. Hopefully he ends his career on a high like this.

Nailed it. SO GOOD.



Also, face Alberto Del Rio oozes charisma and is able to pull in a crowd into his match with ease. Hopefully Ricardo takes up his El Local luchador character and tag teams with Del Rio. It'd be funny if there were a story of Ricardo still being Alberto's best friend but Alberto has no clue Ricardo is his tag team partner El Local.

Smackdown gifs

[bork]

We were talking about Generico being signed to WWE and how it was an awesome move from Triple H. Then you post something about Sin Cara, as if that is proof of anything, when Triple H is behind a myriad of some of the best talent pick ups and storylines recently: including The Shield and tag team revival.

Triple H i behind the Shield and tag team stuff?  Where did you read that?

By your language, it gives off an air that nothing will please you, despite the very clear idea that the company is trying.

"Nothing will please me" even though I've praised The Shield PPV match and think it was the best match of 2012?   

They are scouring RoH and PWG for indie talent, they are going after international wrestling stars like Sin Cara (failed) and Alberto Del Rio (success) to secure some international success.

It doesn't matter who they get when they force people to work in their own watered-down style.  Speaking of Del Rio, his recent face turn was not done well at all-- especially when right after they turned him face, he was "heel" again and hit Mick Foley-Santa Claus with his car.  Then he's face again and wins the title from Big Show on Smackdown!   

They are graduating their NXT headliners to the main program and getting them involved in the main event, or if not that, building them up so that they eventually reach the main event.

And where have we seen that before?  Oh yeah...in 2010...when they brought up the Nexus and after a promising start, it went to shit.  It's funny that the two most-successful people from that group have been Daniel Bryan (fired, then brought back months later and kept out of storylines with shortly after) and Ryback (suffered an injury as Skip Sheffield during a house show and disappeared for a while). Everyone else, even the "promising" Wade Barrett, are either midcarders or just jobbers now.

They have shifted from Cena and gave CM Punk an over year long title reign.

No, they haven't shifted from Cena.  He is "the man" in the WWE.  This is something that Punk himself has complained about in some of promos that cross the line from kayfabe to real.  He's complained that he hasn't been the focus of the company even though he's the champ, and he's right- the focus on the belts and the people who are champs is generally lost unless it IS Cena that has it.

They are shifting from big, bad guys to smaller men like Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, Antonio Cesaro, Seth Rollins, and Dean Ambrose.

Welcome to...WWE since like 1995?  They've had smaller guys in the spotlight ever since the steroid scandal...what are you talking about?

Although when you look at it, they do currently have bigger/bulkier guys in the main event slots in the forms of Cena, Ryback, Big Show, and Sheamus.   

That is not discussion. It is repetition.

Clearly, to anyone with a brain, WWE is attempting to secure their future. And I think it's fun to watch.

^^^^
This is repetition.  You keep listing the same points over and over again.

[bork]

Big Show has finally found 'it' and it's great. I thought he was the fucking worse talent the WWE had in employment for years. But his heel run has been fucking rad. All his matches have largely been great. Hopefully he ends his career on a high like this.

I take it you did not see the awesome feud Big Show had with Brock Lesnar back in the early 2000s, then.  When Show works with the right guys, he can be awesome.  The right wrestlers can really carry him well.

- Brand split doesn't even matter anymore, so just kill it already.

They pretty much already have with the "Super Shows" they are doing...they didn't even bother with the draft lottery in 2012 because of it.  Plus with three-hour RAWs, they don't have enough RAW people to fill the shows up without SD! people appearing.

[Himu]

ddp helped jake Roberts gets clean. Read it here. He's now working with Scott hall. Bless him. Ddp was always a face and now I have even more respect. I really hope.Scott gets better but it almost feels too late now. Guy needs x and y just to stay alive now.

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/269506/Jake-Roberts-Discusses-Being-Clean,-His-Physical-Condition,-Living-With-DDP,-More.htm

[Himu]

Read more Meltzer, Bork. The Shield is a side project from HHH.

[Mandark]

There's a bit from Mick Foley's autobiography, I think, where he's talking with someone and they say DDP will make it big one day.  Foley's like "Him?" and the other guy says "Yeah, he lives his gimmick" or something to that effect.

[Himu]

Always a face? Fucking phones.

[bork]

DDP?  He was brought into the WWE as a heel.  The whole stalker storyline with him following the Undertaker's (then) wife Sara was so bad.     You could tell this was just not the role for him. 

IIRC DDP was illiterate and had a lot of problems up until his 30s, then he really turned everything around.  After he left wrestling, he did motivational speaking and started some yoga program for guys.

[Himu]

I meant fave but the phone changed it to face because it is distinguished mentally-challenged.

From the interview: "If you're walking around in a negative cloud, not being positive or uplifting about yourself at all, then how the hell are you expecting to move forward?" - Jake Roberts

Sounds cheesy but I really needed to hear/read this. I really hope he sticks with it. Watching Beyond The Mat I felt terrible.because Jake the Snake my favorite as a kid. And now I read this and want to cry happy tears.

On DDP, I was watching wwe's top 50 finishers on netflix the other day and was mad Diamond Cutter was so low on that list.

[Himu]

Goodness in his heyday Scott was easiest the sexiest member of kliq.

#kliq

[Himu]

His ring shake thing.

The tooth pick.

The bad guy.

The way he said Dubbya See Dubbya.

The finisher...guy was the total package. Though I prefer Razor Ramon gimmick to straight Scott Hall.

[Himu]

Here's his son Cody Hall in a match. Has that Razor swagger down to a tee.

He was trained by Scott too.

[Himu]

He definitely resembles his dad and there's that swagger. But dude needs a better look than bald head and no beard, he just looks like yet another generic white dude who happens to be son of a legend.

I agree, but he's in the indies now so he can get away with it. Definitely needs a beard.

[bork]

It look like Randy Orton's head on Scott Hall's body!   

[bork]

TNA has a PPV tonight.  Not sure if I'm gonna bother watching, but they have cut down their PPVs to just four a year. 

[Himu]

Yeah I read about that. THey aren't even bothering competing with WWE anymore.

I think WWE would be wise to learn from TNA in this case though. They really do need to cut back on PPVs, and looking at their 2013 schedule, they are doing just that this year.

[bork]

WWE has been cutting down on PPVs, slowly, for the past few years.  There's still too many of them.

My biggest problem with the PPVs is what comes between the Rumble and Mania.  It's been the Elimination Chamber for a while now, and it kills the post-Rumble Mania build up, since the Rumble winner sits the PPV out.   I really wish it could just the Rumble, then Mania.  Put the Elimination Chamber in January/February instead.

[bork]

I've got it on but I dunno if I'm gonna watch the whole PPV.  No interest in the title match.