International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster

[Occam]

Shortly before his death in 1955, Einstein said to his companion Johanna Fantova (a former Princeton university librarian):
"The rule of the stupid cannot be overcome because there are so many of them, and their votes count just as much as ours."
That accurately addresses a fundamental problem of democracy.

[Akala]

which was solved totally by the electoral college. 

[agrajag]

https://twitter.com/JamesDMorris/status/1205252843831283714

maybe the British are just dumb

[Mandark]

I try not to be, but it's hard, with stupid people ruining it for the rest of us.

I don't think you're that smart.

[OnlyRegret]

democracy 

technocracy of the demigod AIs free of the shackles of mortality and humanity 

[OnlyRegret]

This should be a lesson to America: If the choice is (incorrectly) perceived to be Trump or Socialism, most Americans will go with Trump.

I think that's obvious to anyone with two working brain-cells (as much as I don't want that to happen).

I honestly don't get the "COMMUNISM BAD" mindset now a days. Nobody sensible is asking for a full communist government where breadlines/etc. happens. But having socialized safety-nets (guaranteed housing, food-on-the-table, healthcare) shouldn't scare folks. This shit is sensible for the lower-classes, especially. But because "socialism" or "communism" is thrown around, folks get all Joe McCarthy "I'M ONLY SIXTEEN A CAPITALIST! I'M ONLY A CAPITALIST!!" toward the idea. Which is pretty... cut your nose to spite your face... when a lot of these folks that vote against it would be the biggest benefits.

People are fucking dumb*. But I don't necessarily think socialized values are the problem. It's educating voters that is.

You're right in (my limited experience of Owen Jones blitzing my Twitter timeline of US liberals during UK hours) the sense that Jeremy did jack-shit. I mean, compared to Bernie (or Warren *retch*) he certainly didn't do anything beyond "oh well, I'm against Brexit!" which is a Hillary move.

*

Probably why I'm a misanthrope

[close]

Misleading people has a lot of people's money riding on it. Socialism/Communism are buzzwords for the purpose of political discourse.
It was interesting to see Carlson co-opt certain talking points from the left, avoid attaching it it the left in name and people eat it up. Of course, being a rich, rich man his intent isn't benevolent and his content has
a slant of splitting capitalism into good and bad variants to avoid letting the flock stray. That and he really knows how to speak to the poor conservatives of the States.

Why do you think the GOP goes so hard on abortion? Do you really think they would bat an eye at strongarming a mistress into getting one?
They need it to maintain a hold on their numerous base. Convincing people the Dems are in favour of carrying pregnancies to term in order to kill the newborn is essential for their strategy.

Here's an idea: After spreading a certain amount of counterfactual information/propaganda (not merely bad opinions but objective falsehoods), you should be barred from holding public office for a number of years.

Great idea. So how exactly would you implement your completely objective Ministry of Truths?

[Nintex]

Trump will eventually make a move so bad that it has a negative effect on the US economy

Maybe but this scaremongering didn't work. Same as in the UK.

A vocal minority has moved far left in a liberal mostly urban bubble where unsurprisingly most journalists hang around.
But oh no Democracy has ended because people 'voted' for the type of government they prefer between 'a circus' and a  'shit show'? 

The left needs a new game plan beyond pandering to the vocal minority, fluffing the same journalists and pretending their policies are all colors and rainbows.

But no Trump and Boris with their magic dicks and Russian lube made a constituency that voted Labour since it was founded turn to the Dark Side of conservatism.
Yes, that must be it. No other explanation possible or else you are probably a Nazi or a Russian puppet!

[thisismyusername]

People are fucking dumb*. But I don't necessarily think socialized values are the problem. It's educating voters that is.

When a population has mass reactionary politics I think you should take them at their word and try to understand why instead of wishing that if they were "smarter" they'd see things your way.

Oh, I understand why completely:

the whites hate the browns and blacks so much, they'll strip themselves of good healthcare to avoid sharing it with them 

It's exactly this. You can try to dress it up as something else, but I have had actual British citizens tell me this with a straight-face. "Oh, I don't want immigrants getting nationalized healthcare and breaking away from the EU will stop them from coming in."

"So you're willing to fuck yourself over for the sake of making sure others aren't fucked over by dictators/etc. in other countries?"
"*crickets which means "yes"*"

Again: People are fucking dumb. Why do you think I expect Trump to win a second term? People vote against their own self-interests due to emotions and "gut feeling." You can educate them that things would get better under "these other guys," but if someone (like Trump) reassures them "I got this," they'll vote for that stupid fucker everytime.

https://twitter.com/BWJones/status/1205389704834637824

And you know what? I bet those fucking farmers will still vote for his stupid-ass despite publicly saying they're dissatisfied with him because people are fucking dumb.

[Nintex]

"And to the man with the stars on his hat I say, Put a sock in your megaphone"

"You voted to be Carbon Neutral by 2050... and Corbyn Neutral by Christmas"

 

[EchoRin]

Well, I should listen to my girlfriend and not check the twitter or forum thread.

Genuinely at this point, seeing my own mother's racism and that she said she even want to sacrifice the NHS so the 'pakis and immigrants' can't use it, as well as watching my loved ones and friends who may suffer even more under a Tory government, I wish i just have the balls to commit suicide.

I'm half Pakistani, I'm an ex Muslim, I work in an extremely volatile industry where under the tories, things might change for the worse with less regulation if the tories had their way.

I'm so scared and frighten. But unfortunately life goes on and it's back to survival mode for the next five years.

My only hope at this point is the TGA trailers not being disappointing.

That and my girlfriend keeping me sane.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

https://www.resetera.com/threads/uk-general-election-2019-polls-open-today-7am-10pm-get-out-and-vote.158714/page-13#post-27324611

[close]

I just want to give you a hug. Hang in there.

[Potato]

The Guardian is so good for a laugh. It's come to be my daily dose of comedy.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/13/corbynism-labour-left-party

Basically: "You know that guy we've been relentlessly stanning for so much for the past few years? Yeah, maybe he wasn't such a good candidate."

[curly]

That exact same columnist wrote a piece saying Labour should ditch Corbyn two months ago dude

[Potato]

That exact same columnist wrote a piece saying Labour should ditch Corbyn two months ago dude

And was still talking up Corbyn's chances of minority government in late November.

The Guardian is a biased shit rag, just as much as the Murdoch press is biased the other way.

[curly]

The Guardian has overall been lukewarm to anti-Corbyn since his initial rise

[OnlyRegret]

the guardian?
good place for laughs imo

[Mandark]

The Guardian has overall been lukewarm to anti-Corbyn since his initial rise

The columnist that Potato said was "relentlessly stanning" for Corbyn mostly wrote pieces criticizing Labour for not being explicitly pro-Remain and Corbyn for not cracking down on antisemitism in the party.

[Potato]

The Guardian has overall been lukewarm to anti-Corbyn since his initial rise

The columnist that Potato said was "relentlessly stanning" for Corbyn mostly wrote pieces criticizing Labour for not being explicitly pro-Remain and Corbyn for not cracking down on antisemitism in the party.

I said the guardian was relentlessly stanning, not the specific columnist

[Mandark]

all those pieces he wrote that were critical of corbyn and labour were published by the guardian

[Potato]

I particularly love think pieces like this

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/14/labour-meltdown-decades-govern-votes

The ones where they dissect everything that's been wrong with the labour party for decades.

Where was this analysis before the election? If they were being honest and balanced, as they should be as a privileged media organisation, they would have published shit like this before the election.

Instead, shit like the guardian sees itself as the PR arm of the left and political discourse as a whole suffers.

The Murdoch press is the same and that's why people are disillusioned with politics these days. Too many echo chambers and not enough actual analysis of the issues and policies.

[Potato]

all those pieces he wrote that were critical of corbyn and labour were published by the guardian

Yes, and every single story regarding the Conservatives was negative and alarmist. A few scattered critiques of Labour aside, as a whole, the Guardian is so overwhelmingly left it is comedic.

It's the same with their Australian and US coverage. No one can take them seriously when they wear their allegiance so openly.

In fact, it's even worse in Australia where they lean so far left they basically act as the PR arm of The Greens.


Edit: The Guardian personified

[Nintex]

I particularly love think pieces like this

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/14/labour-meltdown-decades-govern-votes

The ones where they dissect everything that's been wrong with the labour party for decades.

Where was this analysis before the election? If they were being honest and balanced, as they should be as a privileged media organisation, they would have published shit like this before the election.

Instead, shit like the guardian sees itself as the PR arm of the left and political discourse as a whole suffers.

The Murdoch press is the same and that's why people are disillusioned with politics these days. Too many echo chambers and not enough actual analysis of the issues and policies.

It was the same with Trump and 2016 or Brexit in general:
"Hillary Clinton has an amazing ground game, Trump can never win, he has no ground game lmao"

Think pieces after T-Day:
"Why the Democrats neglected their ground game and it cost them the election"

Which is why polls 'don't matter', the interpretation and reporting on those polls matters and whatever way you slice it every outlet was drooling at the fact the gap was getting smaller and Corbyn was within striking distance of forcing a hung parliament.
Election day happens and the only thing that kept them from cratering below 200 seats was the Brexit party splitting the conservative vote in a few key leave seats.

In the Netherlands the headline was: "SHOCK ELECTION VICTORY FOR BORIS JOHNSON AND THE CONSERVATIVES" because the public broadcaster had bet heavily on remain.
I think the news media and celebrities need to realize picking a side works against their favorite candidate not in favor.
Because it just amplifies the urban legend that the MSM, liberals/left, hollywood and academia are colluding.

Despite being called a Russian plant for 3 years Donald still manages to fill up stadiums and implement a lot of his agenda.
Cue the surprised faces of the MSM when he wrecks Uncle Joe or the socialist next November after they fail to impeach him.

Everyone knows Murdoch's rags are rubbish as far as insight and analysis is concerned they just pick them up for the page 3 titties, sex scandals, TV and sports schedules.

[Nintex]

https://twitter.com/osamabishounen/status/1205296715680477185

https://twitter.com/EIPBTGIF/status/1205629250008764416

https://twitter.com/JimfromBC/status/1202395115630690304

 

[team filler]

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1205988012934520834

 

[Nintex]

concerns?

Guess the FSB/GRU went soft too.

"The report was falsified in bad faith!"

lmao

[Nintex]

https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1205522695984680967

 

[team filler]

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1206003435868438528

 

[team filler]

https://twitter.com/JoshuaYJackson/status/1205940757405880322

 

[Raist]

No more banter with Black Rod and trashing the tories so hard he got a few timeouts

Dennis pls come back.

[team filler]

https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1205599766140334081

https://twitter.com/ohlI7bI0Omwqp96/status/1205608408436506625

 

[team filler]

jewmers

[OnlyRegret]

okay jews?

[Tripon]

https://twitter.com/theintercept/status/1205990469953560577

  Tories members right now.

[team filler]

https://twitter.com/semper_vincit/status/1205969681556787201

 

[benjipwns]

https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1205522695984680967

'We will make sure that we put them against the wall and they will have to do their job to protect our futures.'

some propaganda by the deed

[Potato]

https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1205522695984680967

'We will make sure that we put them against the wall and they will have to do their job to protect our futures.'

some propaganda by the deed

It's always good advice to not read the Daily Mail

[team filler]

https://twitter.com/poor_kisan/status/1205808083819257858

help unc get up the stairs, esch!

[team filler]

https://twitter.com/historic_ly/status/1206037591247724545

 

[kingv]

https://twitter.com/poor_kisan/status/1205808083819257858

help unc get up the stairs, esch!

Mo Deez Nutz in your mouth!

[Great Rumbler]

https://twitter.com/poor_kisan/status/1205808083819257858

help unc get up the stairs, esch!

[team filler]

https://twitter.com/RaniaKhalek/status/1204005428943872000

 

[zepblackstar]

I am enjoying way too much the vloggers like owen jones and ash sarkar getting dunked on over labour getting blown out.

[team filler]

https://twitter.com/korol_koshek/status/1206278370662768641

 

[Nintex]

he_is_right_you_know.jpg

[Kara]

Glen Shinobi Greenwald's 50 minute interview with Evo is up.

https://theintercept.com/2019/12/16/evo-morales-interview-glenn-greenwald/

[team filler]

https://twitter.com/LeeCamp/status/1207394099348639745

 

[Nintex]

https://twitter.com/markcurtis30/status/1207380571330162688\
Palpatine is not the only returning Sith Lord

[Potato]

he_is_right_you_know.jpg

I know it's parody, but that is an epic skewering of the UK lefties.

[Potato]

Brutal

www.smh.com.au/national/the-people-who-lost-the-election-for-british-labour-hate-the-working-class-20191217-p53kq3.html

Whenever working-class outsiders complain about how an immigration or economic policy blights their lives the response of the enlightened insiders is to brand them either “racist” or “stupid”.

This is the judgment of those who make or champion enlightened policies but don’t live in the frontline suburbs where they land. It is not their jobs, wages or communities that are asked to endure wrenching change.

It is evident across the Western world that there is now a chasm dividing inner-city internationalists and the working-class nationalists who sustain their lifestyles. Many in wealthy city sanctums are now so disconnected from their sources of food, wealth and energy that they are voting against them or seeking to ban them.

But Labour was torn between its traditional base and the woke progressive class that had invaded it. That had grown into a legion when the party allowed supporters who paid just £3 to vote in leadership ballots.

This crowd came with all the verities of the new age and all their many prejudices. At base they really hate the working class. They hate their jobs, their cars, their sports, their music and their lifestyles.

So Labour chose as leader Jeremy Corbyn, a gold-plated, copper-bottomed, ocean-going Trot from central casting. And the working class really hates Trots. It was a marriage made in hell.

The British election saw an abject rejection of the party of the workers by the workers. It turned out they weren’t suffering regret. They were enraged. Maybe it’s time to try to understand why, because a real workers' revolution is sweeping the globe.

[Kara]

Labour hates working class sports, that's why there was a bunch of football stuff in their 2019 manifesto.

[Nintex]

The future working class people want
https://twitter.com/emilyhewertson/status/1207699279025979392

[curly]

Many in wealthy city sanctums are now so disconnected from their sources of food, wealth and energy

China? Saudi Arabia? Wherever the Brits import their food from?

At base they really hate the working class. They hate their jobs, their cars, their sports, their music and their lifestyles.

Culture war bullshit

The British election saw an abject rejection of the party of the workers by the workers. It turned out they weren’t suffering regret. They were enraged. Maybe it’s time to try to understand why, because a real workers' revolution is sweeping the globe.

Oh yeah Boris Johnson and the Tories are the real workers' revolution

[Nintex]

Many in wealthy city sanctums are now so disconnected from their sources of food, wealth and energy

China? Saudi Arabia? Wherever the Brits import their food from?

At base they really hate the working class. They hate their jobs, their cars, their sports, their music and their lifestyles.

Culture war bullshit

The British election saw an abject rejection of the party of the workers by the workers. It turned out they weren’t suffering regret. They were enraged. Maybe it’s time to try to understand why, because a real workers' revolution is sweeping the globe.

Oh yeah Boris Johnson and the Tories are the real workers' revolution

Excuse me, his excellency Lord Borissimus de Pfeifel Johnson the First, Count of Bellend and Vice Roy of Bumshire is indeed the man of the people 

[Kara]

Jeremy Corbyn is a Trot, that's why he writes for / fraternizes with the Morning Star and had Andrew Murray as a confidant.

[Pissy F Benny]

Why is it all these high-profile commies are poshos? 

Daddy cut them out of the will?

[Nintex]

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1207626121426063360

BBC: "Why isn't Jeremy Corbyn happy  "

[Potato]

Modern Labour/left politicians...angry at everyone, including their own supporters...call everyone stupid/racist/bigoted...wonder why they can't connect with working/middle class voters...wonder why they are perpetually in opposition...

[Cerveza mas fina]

Lets rememeber how good Hitler was connecting to the working class and how that turned out for them.

Brexit is another example of turkeys voting for Christmas.

Labours fault is not that they are angry at everyone, its that they took Corbyn as leader and didnt position themselves anti brexit and pro workers strong enough and couldn't articulate the benefits of being in the Union. They are a fucking shambles.

[Nintex]

Lets rememeber how good Hitler was connecting to the working class and how that turned out for them.

Brexit is another example of turkeys voting for Christmas.

Labours fault is not that they are angry at everyone, its that they took Corbyn as leader and didnt position themselves anti brexit and pro workers strong enough and couldn't articulate the benefits of being in the Union. They are a fucking shambles.

Hitler was appointed chancellor by Hindenburg because the old guard of Germany thought he would be an easy controllable puppet for big business, banks and industry.
Capable of doing the dirty work needed to stop a 'real' communist workers revolution in Germany.

Sure, Hitler had support among the working classes but not as much as the reds did at that time. The Nazi's only won that struggle with violence.
If you look at election results prior of Hitler being appointed chancellor his party was actually losing traction, not gaining. To keep their power they had to outright ban and imprison the communists, unions and social democrats.

Comparing the likes of Boris to Hitler completely misses the point and is precisely why the left keeps losing.
You can't point to a doofus like Boris and scream he's a Nazi. No one outside your bubble is going to believe you and it simply isn't true.

[Raist]

Queen's speech already? But... I thought they needed several weeks to prepare for that...

[Nintex]

Queen's speech already? But... I thought they needed several weeks to prepare for that...

Not when Putin has already written it