THE FOOTBALL/SOCCER THREAD

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Ajax won the CL and the Dutch league in 94/95, then made it to the CL final again

Those were different better times before the Bosman ruling that ruined club football

95 is basically the beginning of the end of all teams that arent from a 50 million plus country

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Just FYI so you know how the Bosman ruling ruined football:

95 CL final was Ajax vs AC Milan

Ajax had 9 dutch players on the pitch, Milan had 9 Italian players on the pitch

2006 CL final was Barcelona vs Arsenal

Barcelona had 3 Spanish players on the pitch, Arsenal had 2 English on the pitch


In 10 years football went from being about club teams with a national identity and culture to corporations where more money is the major factor

We will never stand a chance again because of this EU ruling

[Kara]

While I'd love nothing more than to see English clubs full of shit kicking Englishmen who couldn't cross the street let alone a football, surely there's a way to preserve the local character of clubs without robbing players of their freedom of association, which is what football was pre-Bosman.

Fantastic result for Athletic today, draw and an away goal.

[headwalk]

Watching the spanish Supercopa and i have to admit:

Gareth Bale is absolutely amazing. Can't blame him but you have to wonder what an England squad captained by him would be like.

he'd get infected.

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While I'd love nothing more than to see English clubs full of shit kicking Englishmen who couldn't cross the street let alone a football, surely there's a way to preserve the local character of clubs without robbing players of their freedom of association, which is what football was pre-Bosman.

Fantastic result for Athletic today, draw and an away goal.

Any ideas of how to do this?

Also if players can play where they want because of freedom of labour, why cant clubs play in another league? Freedom of capital etc.

It just pains me to no end that Ajax has a smaller budget then all the shite teams in the PL

[Fifstar]

Just FYI so you know how the Bosman ruling ruined football:

95 CL final was Ajax vs AC Milan

Ajax had 9 dutch players on the pitch, Milan had 9 Italian players on the pitch

2006 CL final was Barcelona vs Arsenal

Barcelona had 3 Spanish players on the pitch, Arsenal had 2 English on the pitch


In 10 years football went from being about club teams with a national identity and culture to corporations where more money is the major factor

We will never stand a chance again because of this EU ruling

I don't disagree with your general point but that a bit selective. For example in the cl final 2013 Bayern vs Dortmund Bayern had 6 german players and Dortmund had 7. Ajax in 95 also was a really young team, just an incredible generation. Not impossible to repeat that, just not very likely. Admittedly, the big clubs sign even younger players than before.

It just pains me to no end that Ajax has a smaller budget then all the shite teams in the PL

Crazy thing is, even the worst team in the PL has higher tv earnings (talking about earnings from the national divison) than the highest earning Bundesliga team. PL is just an absolute money making machine.

[Kara]

Any ideas of how to do this?

Also if players can play where they want because of freedom of labour, why cant clubs play in another league? Freedom of capital etc.

It just pains me to no end that Ajax has a smaller budget then all the shite teams in the PL

I'm not opposed to a European super league for the legal reason you mentioned and because I think it would alleviate some of the problem. As a fake fan of a La Liga club I would love it if Madrid and Barcelona left for greener pastures; they're too big for home and everyone else at home is too small for them, why is everyone being punished because of an accident of geography?

Other pipe dreams: prohibition of television contracts negotiated on a leaguewide basis, stricter rules about government subsidies (why does the Basque regional government sponsor Athletic sometimes?) and draconian debt rules (of the Bundesliga's type) forced on everyone by UEFA. It's easy to decimate feeder clubs when you don't have to exist in financial reality.

At the end of the day Ajax will still probably be a loser just because of where it's located, but at least it'll be losing to clubs that earn it instead of mid-table mediocrity suckling on television contracts they didn't earn and clubs that are leveraged so much you need a beverage to believe their balance sheet.

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I don't disagree with your general point but that a bit selective. For example in the cl final 2013 Bayern vs Dortmund Bayern had 6 german players and Dortmund had 7. Ajax in 95 also was a really young team, just an incredible generation. Not impossible to repeat that, just not very likely. Admittedly, the big clubs sign even younger players than before.

The point was more that clubs with smaller budgets cannot keep players anymore because the big clubs can buy as many foreigners as they want.

Bayern and Dortmund can have loads of Germans because Germany is huge, which always puts you guys at an advantage anyway.

Crazy thing is, even the worst team in the PL has higher tv earnings (talking about earnings from the national divison) than the highest earning Bundesliga team. PL is just an absolute money making machine.

Bottom PL team has like 60 million euro from TV rights, Ajax has 7 million euro. Yet its still better then them.

At the end of the day Ajax will still probably be a loser just because of where it's located, but at least it'll be losing to clubs that earn it instead of mid-table mediocrity suckling on television contracts they didn't earn and clubs that are leveraged so much you need a beverage to believe their balance sheet.

If Ajax had a bit more money they would be a contender for the CL again.

Also Ajax has more money then Real in the bank, +100 million, not 500 million in debt 

Other pipe dreams: prohibition of television contracts negotiated on a leaguewide basis, stricter rules about government subsidies (why does the Basque regional government sponsor Athletic sometimes?) and draconian debt rules (of the Bundesliga's type) forced on everyone by UEFA. It's easy to decimate feeder clubs when you don't have to exist in financial reality.

This has to happen, but it will have the effect of maintaining the status quo.

The clubs that rose to prominence because of overspending will be able to live of that fraud (Barca, Real, Man U, City, Chelsea etc.)

What is needed is something more fundamental and understanding that club football is not just a business, thats why the Bosman ruling should be overturned in this case. Either that or a very low salary cap/sign on cap.

Something has to be done.

[Timber]

Celtic 1-1 in Slovenia just now. Some improvement, but there's no way they're getting out of the CL group stage with this squad. I'd still prefer to see them play Europe League if that means Leigh Griffiths et al. don't look entirely incompetent when trying to get a ball past a defender.

So sorry, Kosma.

[Kara]

Esch's husbando by the numbers.

http://mcfc.co.uk/News/Team-news/2014/August/Edin-Dzeko-contract-renewal-infographic

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Never forget

[headwalk]

despite being a black italian guy, balotelli could never hide that he was always a scouser at heart.

[DCharlieJP]

despite being a black italian guy, balotelli could never hide that he was always a scouser at heart.

> dey do do dat douh donn dey?
>> dey DO dat douh don't dey dou?

man - i lived right by Toxteth for 4 years. Four whole years.

And i f--king loved it. I <3 <3 <3 Liverpool. I hear it has changed beyond recognition but i loved my time there.

... mother puss bucket - that time was 20 years ago at least. Shite.

[Fifstar]

Season prediction from a blog I follow that's based on an elaborate player effeciveness model:

Premier League

1   Manchester City   135.8   
2   Chelsea FC           133.4   
3   Arsenal FC           124.6   
4   Manchester United   123.3   
5   Tottenham Hotspur   119.6   
6   Liverpool FC           119.1   
7   Everton FC           112.7   
8   Southampton FC   109.2   
9   Swansea City           107.2   
10   Newcastle United   106.4   
11   Leicester City           106.0   
12   Aston Villa           105.9   
13   West Bromwich Albion   105.6   
14   Hull City                   104.6   
15   Sunderland AFC   104.5   
16   Stoke City           103.8   
17   West Ham United   103.6   
18   Queens Park Rangers   103.3   
19   Burnley FC            102.9   
20   Crystal Palace            101.7   


Bundesliga


1   Bayern München   149.9   
2   Borussia Dortmund   127.8   
3   FC Schalke 04           118.3   
4   VfL Wolfsburg           117.2   
5   VfB Stuttgart           112.6   
6   Bayer Leverkusen   112.0   
7   Hamburger SV           111.7   
8   1899 Hoffenheim   111.7   
9   Bor. Mönchengladbach   110.9   
10   Hertha BSC           110.8   
11   1. FC Köln                   108.2   
12   SC Paderborn 07   107.8   
13   1. FSV Mainz 05   107.7   
14   SC Freiburg           106.6   
15   Hannover 96           106.5   
16   FC Augsburg           105.6   
17   Eintracht Frankfurt   103.3   
18   Werder Bremen   100.1   


Values are average player strength and comparable between the leagues. Bundesliga seems to be decided before the season starts while the top four are kinda close in the Premier League.

[Fifstar]

Interesting. Liverpool in 6th though? Looking much better than Utd, and about as good as Arsenal tbh.

Who knows. The model doesn't rely on current form and recent results. It calculates for each player how big his impact was on the scoreline in each game he played that is in the database and corrects for the strength of the opponents and the teammates. Some players that are highly regarded by the public just have average values, for example because while some players might score a lot, their teams might also concede more goals while they are on the pitch.

http://www.goalimpact.com/p/faq.html

[Fifstar]

Liverpool fans singing for Balotelli

[headwalk]

real looking pretty toothless. produces a dual soothing effect of "haha get fucked moneycunts" and reducing the chance that they'll sell di maria to united.

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Real lost praise jeebus

[Kara]

Barca will definitely be giving the cantera a chance for the next 2 years.

There are cultural (Catalan vs. "Spanish") / symbolic (regionalism vs. liberal central authority) / political (left vs. right) differences between the clubs, but they're both such international presences that it I don't really think it matters anymore.

[Kara]

-Spain isn't a modern European nation-state, it's a medieval kingdom that failed upwards into the 21st century despite going bankrupt several times. (Loot the Americas brehs.)

-Unlike, say, the UK (another similar state), the process of exerting homogenizing power over the various nations that comprise this kingdom didn't really begin in earnest until the rise of liberalism there in the 19th century and the conclusion of the Carlist Wars. For example Basques enjoyed a unique status under the fueros and Catalonia was part of the Crown of Aragon which was a co-equal in the creation of the Kingdom of Spain if you remember your Christopher Columbus story.

-The conclusion of the Carlist Wars was ultimately a victory for the liberals and centralizing Spain on Madrid. The fueros were dissolved, etc.

-This is sort of the beginning point of Basque and Catalan nationalism. (And probably some other nationalisms I'm forgetting.)

-The Second Spanish Republic was a pseudo-restoration of the old ways. Its constitution allowed for regions to exercise a right of autonomy and natch the Basque Country and Catalonia were first in line. Languages other than Spanish were recognized as official legal languages. Et cetera.

-Franco's side wins the Spanish Civil War and brings back the centralizing tendency of the old post-Carlist Kingdom, but amps it up to 11. The expression of regional identities is generally suppressed--e.g. clubs in Spain without Spanish names have to change them to Spanish ones. This is why Atletico Madrid is Atletico Madrid instead of what it was founded as (Athletic Club de Madrid, founded by Basque students living there back in the day).

-Barca sort of becomes a vehicle for Catalans to express their Catalan identity as you can't really arrest people in a football stadium for being political dissidents. (I've read similar sentiments in Arabic literature.)

-Madrid becomes the embodiment of (Castillian) Spain during the Franco era.

The left / right thing goes back to the late 19th century in Catalonia and I'm not terribly read on it because anarchism doesn't get anything done. I do know that the Franco era did little to quell it and generally speaking opposition to him came from the left (e.g. Eta).

[Timber]

celtic lose to inverness 

play twardzik, mcgeouch, o'connell  who? exactly

play mickey mouse team in anticipation for a CL match when the league is a couple of weeks old and everyone's fit anyway

all will be forgiven if and when they win on tuesday

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Sorry Timber 

Newcastle doing exactly what I need them to do; not get scored on immensely.

Can't believe I was thinking of puttting Cabella or Riviere on my PL team at one point. They're wack.

Should have put Krul and Janmaat in today, at least I got 6 points for my mayne Concrete Ron.

Szczesny will never keep a clean sheet :/

Now Pelle needs to score for Southampton, switched him in for Lambert last week.

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Delp was the best player on the pitch for Villa.

Poor Pele is not getting any decent balls, Bony not scoring either so far. My struggle is real.

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Ffffff

Fuck costa too

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Miracle!

Giroud and Ramsey <3

Esch once again being all dramtic before everything is finished :p

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Well getting in to the CL is more important then 3 points at this stage

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Ajax lost at home, first loss in the league since november 2013.

Great game against PSV that went back to back for 90 minutes.

I feel like we should have won but alas.

[Timber]

Ajax lost at home, first loss in the league since november 2013.

Great game against PSV that went back to back for 90 minutes.

I feel like we should have won but alas.

I only watched the first half. Pretty surprising final scoreline as it was a very lively and even match that could've gone either way. Those two are gonna be vying for the title all season, don't see anyone else taking it.

[Timber]

Eibar, who are playing in La Liga for the first time in their history and who, for a while, were on the brink of re-relegation simply because they weren't rich enough (Spanish football!) and their stadium didn't have enough capacity, beat Real Sociedad today. So good.

[Kara]

Real talk all the La Liga games I watched today were better than the Prem.

Random La Liga matches.

Players being able to cross the ball.

Refs actually giving red cards and penalties.

[Mr. Gundam]

Hey Spencer, go Sounders.

MAF was down in Portland for the game, too.

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 Nice vid.

I hope its a draw tonight,  Sterling and Nasri both scoring, Sagna with an assist and 90 min on the pitch...

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Got a Nasri assist, fuck citay

[headwalk]

i either wanted a sterling hat-trick or a clean sheet and maybe a cheeky header from zabaleta. shit.

we were looking really good on saturday. whoever injured nolan's shoulder in training should be given hammer of the year. zarate would've never been given a look in otherwise and is was a damn revelation. kouyate looked magnificent again, downing is finding his form after years in the wilderness and noble is the heartbeat of the team. all this is without our marquee summer signing who is just coming into fitness.

now for a kick to the bollocks courtesy of the blunts in the cup tomorrow to extinguish any misplaced optimism.

[Kara]

Rested Zabaleta for fantasy today.

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I took out Terry and put in Azpi, freed up half a mil.

Wondering if I should take a hit in the points and do some major subbing now that Giroud is injured.

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3 months? Not certain yet, but if so...

 :deadpos

Doing an extra sub costs 4 points

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Ok got rid of Giroud

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Keep Podolski for sure, play with Campbell. Maybe splash out on a real star how they wanted anyway...

[Kara]

god i love my fantasy team name

my actual team however

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No point in keeping Giroud now, 4 point hit imho will be compensated by the fact you will put someone on that will play those games.

[DCharlieJP]

Especially since Caulker /QPR is so shit

Caulker will get points eventually because he at least has the odd burst up front - i shit/bin'ed Ferdinand - it was a stopgap move but might as well get rid before his fantasy value drops. Davies also too busy warming the bench.

yeah, 4 point hit for someone who will play , say, 6 games means you still net 8 points vs nothing in a worst case scenario.

Alternatively, dump striking options and pick up a high point scoring midfielder - seems 5 across the middle might be the way to go.

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Flying to London next month for a day of watching games in the pub with old mates from Ireland

Gooo Gunners!

[headwalk]

Flying to London next month for a day of watching games in the pub with old mates from Ireland

Gooo Gunners!

(Image removed from quote.)

i hate to say it, but i wouldn't want to be playing spuds at any point in the near future if i was a gooner right now.

shame the man u game is away. you could've nipped down to upton park to see us put another boot in their corpse.

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Maybe we'll see you around Headwalk, warning we are all Arsenal if I recall correctly

Yid army will face a crushing defeat at the Emirates 

Balotelli is 10 million pounds in the fantasy game

(Image removed from quote.)

 

I was thinking he'd be around 7.5

I got Jovetic for Giroud AND another 600k for the warchest

[headwalk]

played my WC. shameful.

dropped:

rooney: bagged me a few points early on, but no one should be spending that kind of money for a united player in the current climate.
filipe luis: keeps benches warm while depleting in value.
valencia: looked pretty ineffectual in his first game. better options out there.
giroud: arsenal ankles.
o'shea: freed up some cash so i'm upgrading.

in:

zarate: has looked consistently excellent and in his first proper game scored a blinder and always looked to get involved. a steal at 6.4
jovetic: 7.9 for an in form starting city forward? cool.
cresswell: a left back who can skin players right down the park and will surely be bagging assists.
costa: 30 goal club undergrad. get on the bandwagon.
dier: cheap, spuds look on it, scores goals. easy pick.

[DCharlieJP]

costa seemed such an easy call - lots of players don't hit the ground running but he's the sort of player who isn't going to miss from inside the box.
Sanchez on the other hand had that wiff of "it'll take me 3 months to get going" - glad i dumped him out.

I swapped some players, but didn't play the wild card yet - that's for emergencies

and now onto last nights hilarity.

Man Utd - well, let us take a little journey

Before we do, let me preface it with the fact that LVG does not/did not/never will give a twopenny f-ck about the Carling Cup. Ever.

However, let me once again turn to the fickle lol'ery of United fans - i have quite a few United following friends. My family is largely full of United fans (dating back to the 60s so not particularly glory hunters) and at least my Dad is a vocal moaning fan who knows what he is talking about and not just repeating "LGV is the man, give him time, DI MARIA and DE JUNG and JOLOJO or whatever his names is YEAS!". United fans are hilarious - when they were over in the US winning the preseason cup they were busily talking about TOP 4 AT LEAST, challenging for the title, and how it was ON. Especially after beating Liverpool in the final.

Fast forward to now and "no one expected us to challenge this year" and "Give him time" - step a little back and the noise looks EXACTLY like it did at the end of last year when things were troubled :

"Our next 4 games are easy games - 12 points in the bag!" - and those points failed to turn up.

What was that? Start of the Season? "four easy games - top of the league with 12 points" ---> "LGV needs more time!" "no one said it would be easy" lols okays.

So far they're max getting 7 - and at this rate it'd be a brave man who would bet on that - but the fun part is that this is exactly the same fingers-crossed nonsense as the fans trotted out under Moyes and then Giggs once Moyes was thrown under a bus : that the next X games were easy and salvation was just around the corner. It's not, and it won't be for at least another couple of seasons. LVG hasn't moved them on - but there's a process to that, and it will take time but for all the "Citeh just buy the league with their money" , United are basically going to have to do that exact same thing and buy themselves out of trouble. Di Maria is a great player but they needed defenders - and not concluding business early (LVG discussed targets before the world cup - they were the same as Moyes' apparently) means that clubs can hold that against them. And of course those players aren't going to have pre-season to bed in. Great work, numbskulls!
They may as yet get a full new backline - or one that has a spine that can play 3-5-2 or whatever - or he reverts to 4 at the back.  They have 6 days and i don't know why they expect all these people to be slam dunk signings and that they'll slot perfectly into the side.




Anyways - Celtic - the only great thing out of this is that Celtic could get drawn vs United in the Europa league. PLEASE football god , please make it so.

[Kara]

Liked something MK Dons related.

Get your shit together, Rags, Dons are several layers of offensiveness below you.

[DCharlieJP]

Liked something MK Dons related

I used to go to Plough Lane once every so often when i lived i SAARF London. It's true - moving to MK was a huge slap in the face. Thankfully Wimbledon FC have gave people an alternative but still.

Just glad that, so far, MK Dons didn't shove us towards the franchise model - though, given the location of fans, obviously a move for United to London would cut United fans commute down

[headwalk]

i might have to get MK dons 4 - 0 manchester united tattooed somewhere. it's like satire looped back around on itself and became reality.

i love that AFC wimbledon are sponsored by football manager.

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I feel like ferguson is not getting enough flak for leaving man u with this shite squad he picked.

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Lol at this ass ref where is this fucker from

[Fifstar]

Napoli where really good last cl season, kinda sad to see them go. Also like how Red Bull got eliminated while their coach now does his great work at Leverkusen.

[Cerveza mas fina]

good for arsenal

really hope they get a defensive midfielder in this transfer period though

Wenger should get De Jong.

And Bony at least now Giroud is out

[DCharlieJP]

Costa apparently out for 6 weeks? I seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[headwalk]

well shit.

no big money strikers making a name for themselves right now. almost tempted to take a punt on balo since i've already played my WC.

[Kara]

Congrats Karakand! Bilbao!


Serie A stays losing, on the other hand. Kinda sad.

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Costa apparently out for 6 weeks? I seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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Dont see nothing bout Costa being out

[DCharlieJP]

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/reports-diego-costa-three-months-041300674.html?.tsrc=metrorss