Author Topic: Fighting Games Thread: GAROU 2 GAROU 2 GAROU 2 GAROU 2  (Read 428935 times)

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Himu

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1140 on: July 16, 2017, 10:44:10 PM »
Jack is fine.

Gigas is trash.
IYKYK

bork

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1141 on: July 19, 2017, 02:51:10 PM »
WTF?  :lol :rofl

ど助平

Himu

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1142 on: July 19, 2017, 03:06:17 PM »
:rofl
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Himu

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1143 on: July 19, 2017, 05:18:27 PM »


Daigo like "what is this demonic contraption?"

:rofl
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toku

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1144 on: July 19, 2017, 05:59:40 PM »
dokusebe is lyte?

man the memories of you destroying me in gaf BB lobbies with faye ling good times

bork

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1145 on: July 19, 2017, 08:25:26 PM »
dokusebe is lyte?

 :hulk
You didn't know!?  :lol

man the memories of you destroying me in gaf BB lobbies with faye ling good times

LOL, now if I play that I get wrecked instantly.
ど助平

seagrams hotsauce

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1146 on: July 19, 2017, 10:25:31 PM »
WTF?  :lol :rofl




LTG is one of the most disturbing personalities on the internet. I really hope he's just a troll but somehow I doubt it.

Himu

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1147 on: July 19, 2017, 11:01:58 PM »
I think he does troll. He was at EVO and played Tekken and was chill af. I think it's done for a personality.
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seagrams hotsauce

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1148 on: July 19, 2017, 11:04:24 PM »
He's said some pretty fucked up shit if that's the case. I feel bad for his GF too :(

bork

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1149 on: July 20, 2017, 07:22:42 AM »
He's not a troll, he's a legit douchebag like DSP.

Never forget:

:rofl
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Himu

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1150 on: July 20, 2017, 09:17:37 AM »
http://www.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1408651

:rofl this company

That happened years ago. People change. Maybe his streaming this is his personality now because apparently he's chill and like a totally different person at events now. Don't fucking know.
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bork

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1151 on: July 20, 2017, 09:41:05 AM »
He doesn't look that much different bulked up.

That happened years ago. People change. Maybe his streaming this is his personality now because apparently he's chill and like a totally different person at events now. Don't fucking know.

Nah, he's still acting like a douchebag.  Dunno if he's still treating his girlfriend like shit though.  I LOL'd at him and moved on a while ago- that video I posted just caught my eye because of the insane Garry's Mod-like stuff going on it.  :lol
« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 09:47:15 AM by Dosukebe »
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Himu

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1152 on: July 21, 2017, 12:54:30 AM »
:lawd



ST might be the best fg to watch. Idk why.
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brob

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ Business Ninjas And Baikens, Oh My!
« Reply #1153 on: July 21, 2017, 01:46:44 AM »
I think there's a lot to disagree with in the video but I think your summation is kind of off as well.
[...]

(I didn't see this post previously, sorry for not responding sooner.)

While the Core-A video is scattershot and lacks a solid argument it spends a lot of time talking about input buffering windows making execution too easy which in turn makes the skill gap between players too small. VF5FS has a pretty decent input buffering window and doesn't have the skill gap problem Core-A identifies in SF5, that's why I brought up VF5FS. (And for the record VF players do have to worry about qcfs, half-circles, 360s and various other things like impact follow-ups; Here is a video of an Aoi player with 17000 matches on record messing up a follow-up for guaranteed damage and knock-down in a recent team tournament. It's not Rising Thunder.)

The Core-A video starts off by claiming that EVO moment #37 is impressive for execution, mentioning specifically that there is a 10 frame window for each parry, and that 15 of these has to be done to parry chun's super – however, executing this isn't hard. it's a trial in SF3:3S Online Edition. I've completed it multiple times. What makes EVO moment #37 impressive is the combination of the various factors you mentioned, the raw execution is only a small part of it. From there he goes on to connect a lot of disparate dots in pursuit of some single fundamental flaw explaining why everyone dislikes SF5. Core-A says a three frame input buffer enables "intermediate players to perform any combo with little to no effort and reduces combo variety and hurts the players ability to express themselves." which to me is a very silly claim. 'combo variety and players ability to express themselves' is dependent on how many different combo paths, how situational the different options are, and the general tools that are available to a player, etc,... When you observe the differences in how Daigo and Sako played Evil Ryu in SF4 it had far more to it than simply saying Sako has better execution.

As far as your comments about players developing new tech from execution, the most pertinent example with regards to input buffering in Street Fighter is plinking. Do you consider Vega having to plink his BnB to be something that adds depth to SF4? I certainly don't. Charge partitioning is all well and good because it allows a player to both charge and move (would be nice if it didn't have a random value timer), but plinking is just dead-end muscle memory to give yourself two chances at executing a one frame link. If SF4 had a two frame universal frame buffer would playing Vega have less depth as a result? I don't think so.

ps: I'm surprised you don't play VF given your fondness for Shenmue.

Himu

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ Business Ninjas And Baikens, Oh My!
« Reply #1154 on: July 21, 2017, 03:30:34 AM »
I think there's a lot to disagree with in the video but I think your summation is kind of off as well.
[...]

(I didn't see this post previously, sorry for not responding sooner.)

While the Core-A video is scattershot and lacks a solid argument it spends a lot of time talking about input buffering windows making execution too easy which in turn makes the skill gap between players too small. VF5FS has a pretty decent input buffering window and doesn't have the skill gap problem Core-A identifies in SF5, that's why I brought up VF5FS. (And for the record VF players do have to worry about qcfs, half-circles, 360s and various other things like impact follow-ups; Here is a video of an Aoi player with 17000 matches on record messing up a follow-up for guaranteed damage and knock-down in a recent team tournament. It's not Rising Thunder.)

Fair enough. Haven't played FS in a long time and when I did I just dabbled. Haven't played VF at length since 5 360 like ten years ago.

Quote
The Core-A video starts off by claiming that EVO moment #37 is impressive for execution, mentioning specifically that there is a 10 frame window for each parry, and that 15 of these has to be done to parry chun's super – however, executing this isn't hard. it's a trial in SF3:3S Online Edition. I've completed it multiple times. What makes EVO moment #37 impressive is the combination of the various factors you mentioned, the raw execution is only a small part of it. From there he goes on to connect a lot of disparate dots in pursuit of some single fundamental flaw explaining why everyone dislikes SF5. Core-A says a three frame input buffer enables "intermediate players to perform any combo with little to no effort and reduces combo variety and hurts the players ability to express themselves." which to me is a very silly claim. 'combo variety and players ability to express themselves' is dependent on how many different combo paths, how situational the different options are, and the general tools that are available to a player, etc,... When you observe the differences in how Daigo and Sako played Evil Ryu in SF4 it had far more to it than simply saying Sako has better execution.

??? Not sure why you mention all of this when I agree with all of it. Core-A-Gaming's conclusion is poor.

Quote
As far as your comments about players developing new tech from execution, the most pertinent example with regards to input buffering in Street Fighter is plinking. Do you consider Vega having to plink his BnB to be something that adds depth to SF4? I certainly don't. Charge partitioning is all well and good because it allows a player to both charge and move (would be nice if it didn't have a random value timer), but plinking is just dead-end muscle memory to give yourself two chances at executing a one frame link. If SF4 had a two frame universal frame buffer would playing Vega have less depth as a result? I don't think so.

I don't think plinking or piano is a skill in itself. It's certainly muscle memory like you said. But it's the competitive nature that drives their appeal. They're skills you seek out to up your game. It's like, I'm a martial artist, right? Now in martial arts, sometimes learning a basic detail can change a technique. It's the same way in fighting games. Surely, you have put practice into the technique in the case of plinking or piano or whatever. Just like in a real life martial art. But the fact that you're seeking out tech and that the tech exists in the first place is what gives it depth. Not learning the tip that changes everything. This adds to the competitive nature of the game which exposes you to more and more techniques. One technique by itself isn't depth. But combined, it creates for a lot of techniques to learn, seek out, and try to implement into your game. That's what I think at least, and it was the point I was trying to make. It's like learning that tatsu can go through fireballs on startup. Doesn't make it a win button but it's another thing you've learned to help build those blocks into being a truly formidable player. If you've got a situation where a game is so without passion that people don't even want to bother with tech or there's not much tech to be found, you have a stagnant game. And when there's not much tech, then the ceiling is low and the journey (which is the funnest part of learning a fighting game) is short and abrupt.

Quote
ps: I'm surprised you don't play VF given your fondness for Shenmue.

I grew up playing VF casually and was a massive fan of VF4/4:EVOLUTION/VF5. One of my favorite moments in all of Shenmue was the section where you hunt out people with Virtua Fighter movesets in pit fights for instance.



So VF and I have a lot of history but I've never played it for real real and honestly, no one plays it at any local that I've seen, its tournament scene seems to be MIA, and its online is dead as well. Just seems to be a total dead game. Combined with the amount of depth it has, with a limited pool of players it just doesn't seem like something that will stick.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 03:36:51 AM by Queen of Ice »
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Himu

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1155 on: July 21, 2017, 03:45:00 AM »
Anyways, 1-2 hours a day dedicated to my movement in Tekken. Monthly tourney is in a few days. I'll be entering for SFV and T7.

And don't let my criticism for SFV mean I think it's shit or anything. I actually really like it but it just has a lot of issues. Besides the skill ceiling being low, which I worry a Super expansion won't be able to fix, I also hate the fact that I spent 60 dollars on this game and there's so many stages and characters that I have absolutely zero access to without paying. That pisses me off and I think the games model for dishing out content is fucking bullshit. I can't believe I thought the fight money thing would work.
IYKYK

Tasty

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1156 on: July 21, 2017, 03:52:30 AM »
Man I want Smash on Switch so badly. :( Can't imagine booting up the Wii U now to play a few matches, just so inconvenient.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Switch version better bring back Snake and Ice Climbers. :bolo Plus include some of the better 3DS stages like Pac-Maze, Rainbow Road, Tortimer Island, and Lumiose City.
[close]

Himu

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1157 on: July 21, 2017, 03:54:16 AM »
that's another reason i don't play VF5FS. I'm lazy. Turning on a ps3? lol fuck that.
IYKYK

Tasty

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1158 on: July 21, 2017, 03:57:15 AM »
that's another reason i don't play VF5FS. I'm lazy. Turning on a ps3? lol fuck that.

Doesn't help the Wii U is still slow as fuck even after a bazillion patches.  :-\

And it's not portable. :(

Yeah I could play the 3DS version... but the circle pad? The second stick/nub? Those shoulder buttons? Those graphics? :yuck

Switch version is going to unite everything. :rejoice

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I hope. :maf
[close]

bork

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1159 on: July 21, 2017, 07:41:19 AM »
Anyways, 1-2 hours a day dedicated to my movement in Tekken. Monthly tourney is in a few days. I'll be entering for SFV and T7.

Oh shit, good luck!

I also hate the fact that I spent 60 dollars on this game and there's so many stages and characters that I have absolutely zero access to without paying. That pisses me off and I think the games model for dishing out content is fucking bullshit. I can't believe I thought the fight money thing would work.

But you can get all that stuff without paying, using fight money.  There are guides out there for getting it the quickest if you don't want to shell out cash.  My criticism on this is A) the (real money) pricing on some stuff and B) that you can't actually buy everything with money.  If you want all the various colors...you have to use fight money.
ど助平

Himu

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1160 on: July 21, 2017, 11:05:20 AM »
I am not grinding that shitty ass survival mode.
IYKYK

bork

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1161 on: July 21, 2017, 11:31:47 AM »
I am not grinding that shitty ass survival mode.

Did you do all the story mode stuff?  Regardless...the option is there. 
ど助平

Himu

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1162 on: July 21, 2017, 02:35:59 PM »
So the fighting games I play are Tekken 7, ST, CVS, and a helping of SFV.

ST casuals from earlier.



Met a cool Blanka from Brazil. He exposed a weakness I have with jump ins ST. So we labbed it up and problem solved ways to help with that scenario. Really good Blanka too. The fact I can get get a round off him made me proud. We both agree that while I have holes I have a solid foundation and if I work hard and practice I can get to high level in a year - just in time fro Evo!

The other fight was with a Ryu around my level.

ST has the most hype character select music that isn't MvC2.

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Himu

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1163 on: July 21, 2017, 03:54:00 PM »
I'm going to EVO next year I'm going to compete in three games: T7, ST, and SFV.

My skill goals for all of them:

Tekken 7 - intermediate. I have no delusions of thinking I can get to high level in Tekken in a year. But I'll be satisfied if I'm at least intermediate and will be green ranked online.

Street Fighter V/Super Turbo - high level. I have no delusions thinking I will be top level. But I have paid my dues in SF to get to intermediate/average level. The next step is advanced/above average competitive Street Fighter. This means Gold/Platinum ranked in SFV. I need to achieve this level next year for EVO. I think I can do it. Maybe. I hope.

I order to achieve this I must limit my game time to fighting games. No vacation (non-fg) games
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seagrams hotsauce

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1164 on: July 21, 2017, 04:04:00 PM »
http://www.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1408651

:rofl this company

That happened years ago. People change. Maybe his streaming this is his personality now because apparently he's chill and like a totally different person at events now. Don't fucking know.

He was bragging about pissing in jars, screaming at his GF, and bragging about getting fondled as a preteen six months ago, so I kinda doubt it tbh

Himu

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1165 on: July 21, 2017, 04:15:38 PM »
Oh. I don't follow that kind of fuckery. Just play the games lol.

Pissing in jars. :yuck How can someone so fine and delicious be so disgusting?
IYKYK

Tasty

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1166 on: July 21, 2017, 05:12:53 PM »
How can someone so fine and delicious be so disgusting?

And now the reason you pre-defended him comes out :doge

toku

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1167 on: July 21, 2017, 05:20:05 PM »

thisismyusername

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1168 on: July 21, 2017, 05:57:52 PM »
How can someone so fine and delicious be so disgusting?

Obligatory:


Bebpo

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1169 on: July 21, 2017, 06:04:44 PM »
The new Fire Pro is pretty nostalgic. Haven't played one since playing the hell out of Six Man Scramble back on Saturn (or was it Dreamcast?). Have no idea what I'm doing but thankfully there's good-so-far, but a little buggy, tutorial so I'm re-learning how the game plays.

Himu

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1170 on: July 21, 2017, 08:08:44 PM »
Thinking of some things that'll make SFV more satisfying to play:

1. Create Super Street Fighter V Turbo (more on this below)

2. Follow the Tekken 7 model that legacy characters are free and new characters are dlc.

3. Include a Turbo feature. Since I've been playing V less, when I do play a 2d fighter now it's always an old ass legacy game like ST, Vsav, CVS2, Alpha 2, whatever. You know what I love about these games? They're fast as shit and took a little adjusting too. Include Turbo 1 and Turbo 2. Turbo 1 should be tournament standard. Fuck this slow ass 3D shit. We going for broke. Go from SFV to Vsav and it's night and fucking day. Look at this shit.



4. Normal hit boxes should be increased for optimal footsie range.

5. Anti-Airs should do more damage. No more jab AA's.

6. All season 1 characters should have updated v-triggers like season 2 characters.

7. Links should be tighter by one frame. 2f links should be the standard.

8. Characters like Juri need some buffs, man.

9. Faster walk speeds.

10. I'm not saying that backdash invincibility needs to come back so we don't have to joke about it being Defense Fighter V like we did with IV, but there's needs to be more defense options.

11. This is personal, but change Chun legs to fucking mash instead of qcf.

12. More character variety. The lack of pure charge characters is sickening, much like LTG's piss jars.

13. Characters should have the choise of three Critical Arts like in SFIII. In fact, there should be multiple v-triggers to choose from as well. Options should be a thing. In ST you've got a choice between Old and New characters. This solves their problem. A character like Vega should have a Classic and New version. One charge (classic), the other how he is now. This will make SFV a game with options and depth. The ceiling will rise naturally that way.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 08:30:31 PM by Queen of Ice »
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Bebpo

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1171 on: July 21, 2017, 08:12:11 PM »
God, I miss Darkstalkers.
and no, getting Morrigan a couple others here and there doesn't make up for it.

Guilty Gear feels like the only modern fighter with the weirdness of DS.

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1172 on: July 21, 2017, 08:25:36 PM »
I think it's pretty clear GG is directly inspired by Darkstalkers.

You know what, I like the idea of backdash invincibility. It gives one more option on wake up and allows for some fun okizeme hijinks. The problem is the combination of focus attacks for IV I think as well as the backdash speed of certain characters like Chun and Rose. Let's be real. Complaining about backdash invincibility sounds reall scrubby because there's a way to exploit and punish it. So maybe backdashes do need to be buffed just a bit but not SFIV level?
IYKYK

bork

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1173 on: July 21, 2017, 09:16:31 PM »
Under Night In-Birth EXE Late [St] is now out on PS3, PS4, and Vita!  (Only PS4 got a physical release and the PS3 and PS4 versions have cross-play)

It's got several more characters and added moves over the original version, plus some pretty good rebalancing.  Nice online play as well.

This guy is also saying that it has the best fighting game tutorial since VF4: Evo.
ど助平

bork

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1174 on: July 21, 2017, 09:21:41 PM »
Shin Akuma is playable in Ultra SFII, revealed at a panel at SDCC.  What's amazing to me is that Capcom actually acknowledged this game exists!   :lol



Thankfully, he's not playable online.  You pick him by doing a variation of the original Akuma select process in Super Turbo.

1987 = SF1's release.  :)
ど助平

Himu

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1175 on: July 21, 2017, 09:52:18 PM »
Evil versions of characters has always been wack. Taking up precious space and wasting it on four evil characters. The fact they went with all of these characters screams laziness even if it's what the casuals want. I like how in Tekken the only evil character is Devil Jin and he plays nothing like regular Jin. Capcom evil characters tend to be the same characters game plan taken to an extreme. Then again, the game is a lazy cash in but that still doesn't change the fact that we cannot play Super Turbo, Alpha 2 and 3 on modern consoles despite this being the series 30th Anniv.
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Himu

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1176 on: July 21, 2017, 10:04:43 PM »
Under Night In-Birth EXE Late [St] is now out on PS3, PS4, and Vita!  (Only PS4 got a physical release and the PS3 and PS4 versions have cross-play)

It's got several more characters and added moves over the original version, plus some pretty good rebalancing.  Nice online play as well.

This guy is also saying that it has the best fighting game tutorial since VF4: Evo.

Still sounds like it's any other fighting game tutorial.

In other words: this is how you do combos. It can probably convince people that they think they're learning how to play a fighting game by teaching them combos. Just like usual.

In hindsight, I replayed VF4 Evolution's tutorial last year and it was kind of trash. The only reason people praised it at the time was because it had a whole bunch of in-depth stuff. But all it did was explain a long list of stuff that you do without context. It was kind of no different than what Capcom does now: "this is how you v-trigger" "this is how you do a hadouken" but it doesn't teach the player the context in which this move is needed. It doesn't go,"this is a hadouken. A hadouken is how you zone. This is why you NEED to zone. This is HOW to zone. This is WHEN you zone. You can use hadoukens for pokes. This is a poke. This is WHY you poke. This is WHEN you poke." Or anything. It's just "this is a fireball huurrrrrr, learn this combo. You're learning fighting games. GJ."

I haven't seen the tutorial but since it's published by Arc I have good expectations but the way it's worded there makes it sound like any other fg tutorial where they indicate this idea that combos = the game.

Every fg tutorial I've played has been trash (including VF4Evo) besides GGXrd's. It's the only one where they actually go over common situations or even included a glossary (besides BB of course) of common fighting game terminology.

Meanwhile, in SF Land, you're lucky if you find out what the fuck a meaty is within hundred hours of play. Isn't even included in the game. Much less that some moves are invincible. But let's learn combos. Lol
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bork

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1177 on: July 21, 2017, 10:08:08 PM »
Quote
Just figured out yet another badass feature for this game that, in my opinion, officially puts it beyond VF4 Evo.

The 5th option from the top on the pause menu in mission mode is Demonstration, which has the game show you how to do a combo. If you pause during a demonstration, the 6th option, Demonstration Assist, becomes available. The way it works is, you watch the demo until it gets to a part that's difficult for you or something. Wherever you pause, when you activate it, it will create a "takeover" point, if you will, at that part of the combo. Basically, the demo will play out until that point, and then it's up to you to complete the combo. So if there's a difficult section, like some tough link, you can practice just that link. You can combine this with the "restart mission on failure" option to make it even more streamlined.

This feature has never been in a fighting game before. It's about as easy as learning a combo can get.

I'm just floored by this game. My God!
:leon
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Bebpo

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1178 on: July 21, 2017, 10:10:01 PM »
Your expectations are way too high. VF4 Evo teaches you situational gameplay mechanics. It's not just a combo training mode. I think the training modes in these games are great. Tekken 7 for instance doesn't teach you shit and that's why I'm still terrible at Tekken.

Himu

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1179 on: July 21, 2017, 10:19:17 PM »
Your expectations are way too high. VF4 Evo teaches you situational gameplay mechanics. It's not just a combo training mode. I think the training modes in these games are great. Tekken 7 for instance doesn't teach you shit and that's why I'm still terrible at Tekken.

Tekken 7 doesn't have a tutorial mode. Even in TTT2 all it does is what VF does in its tutorials: they go into mechanics as not gameplay: This is how you throw, this is how you throw escape, this is how you tag out, this is how you do this, this is how you do that. VF is just like that. Where it goes into nothing more than the game mechanics. You still have to figure out a characters strategy and game plan by yourself. My expectations are actually pretty low. It's just that fighting game tutorials are shit.

And even if Tekken did have a tutorial you'd still have to go get the frame data because it's not included in the game.

If I were making a fighting game tutorial mode the first thing I'd teach besides basic moves is spacing. You'd have a spacing tutorial using moves the tutorial just taught. Then you'll use be restricted to only those moves. You get three lives. The goal? Keep the opponent out. If the opponent gets into your zone and hits you, you lose a life. You can only use those moves you were just taught. Those moves are the best moves for keeping an opponent out and you have to use them for that purpose. So if it were SF, you would have Ryu and you could only use hadoukens, shoryukens and st.hk for anti-air,  cr.mk, and cr.hk. Any other move will not work. The game will teach you when to use different hadouken speeds, the purpose of anti air, footsies, and poking with one tutorial. There are eight levels. When you get a game over you start over. You would have different difficulties and in order to unlock those difficulties you would need to be the previous one. Beginner is regular ass zoning and footsies. Intermediate has you fight against characters with varying strategies such as 50/50 (Urien), grapplers, pure zoners like Sagat or Guile.

Then you have character tutorials. This is Chun Li or Guile. This is how you charge. Always keep the charge. You can use the light fireball as a shield to get in. This is how you use this character. This is their game plan. This is how you rush down with them. This is how you zone with them. Then you'd go through a beat em up stage  overcoming obstacles to make sure you got the character.

That is a proper fighting game tutorial. Instead we have,"look at these moves they can do!" and "this is how you combo!"

But I honestly wouldn't have it any other way at this point. Those who want to learn the game have to be willing to do that. That makes the journey so much sweeter because your skills are both earned and handed down from people you build friendships with.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 10:59:39 PM by Queen of Ice »
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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1180 on: July 21, 2017, 11:46:13 PM »
Evil Ryu and Violent Ken are still playable online thought right?  :-\

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1181 on: July 21, 2017, 11:51:49 PM »
Evil Ryu and Violent Ken are still playable online thought right?  :-\

Yup.  They're not anywhere near Shin Akuma in terms of being that broken.

But I would love it if they patched the game and nerfed those fuckers.
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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1182 on: July 21, 2017, 11:54:52 PM »
Lol yeah they're still super broken. Shame cause I like playing as Ken and Violent Ken would be cool to use if he wasn't unfair.

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1183 on: July 22, 2017, 03:21:10 AM »
Good games at local tonight. Also, MORE ST.





ST :bow

Fought a REALLY tough O Ken. I have no idea how to fight that character and get impatient. :lol

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1184 on: July 22, 2017, 10:15:11 AM »
I really need to self critique those matches. Great set of matches last night!

Game plan vs Boxer w/ Chun

a. This match up is about mutual respect. To achieve that respect you must have Super. The beginning of the match is all about the both of us using specials to achieve super. In the mean time I am...

b. Zoning Boxer out with fireballs, legs, and pokes. Cr.mk is my favorite poke because it can also be turned into legs. If I can keep Boxer out with this, it is mission success.

c. The second I get meter and he doesn't have meter, go in the offensive.

d. If he has super do not let him have his way and force him to respect you by achieving super as soon as possible if you don't have it. Make him guess which moves he can get through and make it a maze. Create chip damage with lp kikoken. FUCK you Boxer!

A and B work of course. C is a good plan but harder in practice to achieve and got set myself up for failure, sometimes losing my life lead. Changing this strategy on the third match for instance granted me more success. Even if I have meter before him I still need to work on keeping him out. He's still Boxer and going in without protection (like a fireball) is a huge risk.

In the second fight I did not respect that he had meter and barged in. Got fucked up. It happens.

Third match is great use of Chun zoning tools and Boxer has no way in. Solid footsies as well. Love that bait I did.

I learned that legs is a fantastic poke against Boxer up until he gets Super because he can go through them with super. So I stopped that. Good tease as max distance though. Fireballs is a better zoning tool against him and I had them in spades.

Basic game plan against O Ken:

a. Try to space him. Harder to do against O Ken for whatever reason. I should check out his character data.

I failed at that plan basically and his zoning really kept me out when I achieved super. I got really frustrated.

Apparently any time a character is dizzy in ST you go for a mp throw because it does SPD damage. TIL. And here I am going for combos like it's SFV/Tekken. Big mistake that costs me a round.
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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1185 on: July 22, 2017, 03:56:50 PM »


 :goty2 :dunno :confused :trigger :stop
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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1186 on: July 22, 2017, 03:58:22 PM »
Is this what they call "footsies"?

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1187 on: July 22, 2017, 04:05:51 PM »
Yes. It's supposed to hit or block. The hitbox ranges are short af.

By comparison here's Tokido in SFIV.



1:16.

I'm extremely triggered by this footage from SFV EVO 2017. Haven't seen SFV top 8 yet.
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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1188 on: July 22, 2017, 04:10:00 PM »
Pretty much always go for a throw when you can in ST. The damage from them is just too OD

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1189 on: July 22, 2017, 04:11:39 PM »
Always go for throw unless they're throw invulnerable?
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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1190 on: July 22, 2017, 04:20:26 PM »
yeah, when it's viable to do so. iirc everyone is throw invulnerable for a decent amount of frames after a wakeup so don't bother at all then.


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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1191 on: July 22, 2017, 04:21:30 PM »
So jump or wait. Gotcha.
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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1192 on: July 22, 2017, 04:23:06 PM »
depending on the player might be worth backing up/stay blocking too, since the wakeup super is almost always a good option in ST heh

i assume you are already using it but the SRK wiki article on ST is one of the best resources out there with all the info and links in it: http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo

Himu

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1193 on: July 22, 2017, 04:27:19 PM »
Oh yeah, that resource is :bow Been reading it.

Been trying to piano in ST and SFV taking away my execution skills over here. I haven't had to piano is maybe a year. Bring back mash. :beli

Is ST piano harder or something? Actually, scratch that. My execution is far beyond what it used to be. ST is very strict with inputs and I've not had a problem with execution moves like I used to. Tekken really helped me master my stick. Combined with that new spring mod. :rejoice Maybe it's just harder to piano with Seimitsu buttons? IDK. Any suggestions? Can't find a tutorial on ST piano tech.
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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1194 on: July 22, 2017, 04:52:17 PM »
There's a Sirlin video on Pianoing in ST that may be helpful but I'm on my phone so I can't dig it up right now

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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1195 on: July 22, 2017, 04:59:19 PM »
That old ST tutorial for the ps2 version?




Yup. Sirlin covers it!
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 06:12:39 PM by Queen of Ice »
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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1196 on: July 22, 2017, 11:14:43 PM »



Love this series on Tomo and early Street Fighter.

There's a comment there in the first video that said as a non competitive player back then you'd have the occasional magazine with tips and that's it. If you wanted to search for info on how to get better you'd mostly get garbage. So true.

I would unironically watch a film about the early SF scene king of Kong style.
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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1197 on: July 24, 2017, 10:56:33 AM »
Under Night In-Birth EXE Late [St] is so good.  Nice to have a much-more balanced version of the game.
:lawd
LOL at Akatsuki going from bottom tier-Dan-level joke character to top character in the game.  :lol

After doing a bunch of player matches, I felt pretty good and tried ranked...got destroyed in the first match.  Literally sat there getting trounced and couldn't do shit to recover.  :lol :dizzy
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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1198 on: July 24, 2017, 11:03:55 AM »

Love this series on Tomo and early Street Fighter.

There's a comment there in the first video that said as a non competitive player back then you'd have the occasional magazine with tips and that's it. If you wanted to search for info on how to get better you'd mostly get garbage. So true.

I would unironically watch a film about the early SF scene king of Kong style.

There's some better videos on him out there.  The ones with stories from his buddy Jeff Schaefer are pretty good. 

While I certainly don't dispute that he wasn't an awesome player -Capcom USA invited him to make that tutorial video, after all- that was a different time back then and people didn't travel as widely to play or have online versions to see how they stack up against true worldwide comp.  (But IIRC think those dudes did go to a tournament or two against Japanese players)

It kind of sucks that he quit playing after Super SFII.  I actually see his point about super moves and actually wouldn't mind seeing a new 2D game without them some time.  It would almost feel fresh at this point.

My understanding of the early tournament scene out in Cali is that players all thought they were the shit, then when Japanese players started coming over, they got wrecked by stuff they hadn't even seen before.  This started with Daigo coming over and playing Alex Valle back in the Alpha days and again years later with Third Strike, which revitalized the scene because people didn't know what the hell they were doing over here.  I can certainly believe it, because when I was younger my smug little ass thought I was the best in Alpha 2 and 3, routinely beating all the local peeps, then I headed over to Japan for the first time in 2001 and got owned up and down.  :lol
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Re: Fighting Games Thread ~ GEESE IN TEKKEN 7 NOT PREDICTOBORU
« Reply #1199 on: July 24, 2017, 11:21:09 AM »
From Reddit:
Quote
Gerald Abraham aka LA Akira (Jeff Schaefer was LA Akuma) played in Japan for quite a while and had experience vs Tomo. According to him, it was impossible to say who was the best in the world, but Tachikawa was almost definitely on Tomo's level. And according to Tachikawa, there were very strong players in Osaka as well, which means he thought they could give him a run for his money.

Now the thing is, Tachikawa, while strong, wasn't even regarded as the best in Japan by consensus. You also had players like Komoda (best ST Blanka), the Maekawa brothers (Otochun and Aniken - arguably the best ST Chun and Ken players, or at least top two), and Shooting D (best SFII Ryu player) who also started playing in that era. And even though these are now considered legends, many people still thought Shin Dhalsim was the best player.

(Daigo was around 12 years old during this period. Yes, he did play ST, but he was still learning the game. Interestingly enough Aniken [or Otochun - I don't remember] considers Daigo the G.O.A.T.)

While Tomo was certainly very strong, one of the reasons he has this mythical status was because he was just that much better than the rest of the competition in the US. Whereas in Japan, there were A LOT of very strong players, so very few players really stood out, and from this group it wasn't easy to decide who was best. So it wasn't even a case of Tomo vs best player in Japan, it was Tomo vs best 10 players in Japan. Who would have won? Noone knows.

To understand the level of the "average-to-good" Japanese players during the old school Japanese era, look no further than the Nagoyan videos of World Warrior. Before most Western players even knew how to perform a DP, they had already discovered CPS1 chains, the 512 bug/glitch, and had start refining the neutral game.


https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5AB698B1B31ADD34
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