Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 5543373 times)

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bluemax

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Fake Fake News Awards
« Reply #13260 on: January 21, 2018, 07:08:21 PM »
My property taxes are $1,100 for the year....

Edit: I literally just got the invoice in the mail today. Fite me.

Imagine being able to own property.
NO

chronovore

  • relapsed dev
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Fake Fake News Awards
« Reply #13261 on: January 21, 2018, 07:57:47 PM »
I can't remember if I saw it in this thread, or somewhere else, but some framing caught my eye on Twitter: life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness correspond directly with healthcare, prison reform, and universal education. So there it is: the modern progressive experiment. I like this a lot and think the messaging is worth keeping.

Call it the life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness platform.

Yeah, I like that. It might take off if started at a low level like city government, and over years ascend to something more. Too bad everyone seems to think the Executive Branch is the only election worth voting in, and rarely work from a local level forward.

shosta

  • Y = λ𝑓. (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥)) (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥))
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Fake Fake News Awards
« Reply #13262 on: January 21, 2018, 08:02:41 PM »
Yeah, I like that. It might take off if started at a low level like city government, and over years ascend to something more. Too bad everyone seems to think the Executive Branch is the only election worth voting in, and rarely work from a local level forward.
I think the right place to start would be state, but because SALT is gone...
每天生气

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Fake Fake News Awards
« Reply #13263 on: January 21, 2018, 08:15:42 PM »
I can't remember if I saw it in this thread, or somewhere else, but some framing caught my eye on Twitter: life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness correspond directly with healthcare, prison reform, and universal education. So there it is: the modern progressive experiment. I like this a lot and think the messaging is worth keeping.

Call it the life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness platform.

Yeah, I like that. It might take off if started at a low level like city government, and over years ascend to something more. Too bad everyone seems to think the Executive Branch is the only election worth voting in, and rarely work from a local level forward.

Just don't ask the national Democrats to work on any of the marketing....

shosta

  • Y = λ𝑓. (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥)) (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥))
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13264 on: January 21, 2018, 08:17:54 PM »
fucking worthless party
每天生气

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13265 on: January 21, 2018, 08:26:31 PM »
fucking worthless party

You would think with Hollywood basically being framed as the Democratic party's Sodom, you could put together some better marketing?

Healthcare, education, labor rights, woman's rights, weed legalization, criminal justice reform, internet rights, climate change, and infrastructure. What is so hard about running on that and just tailoring them based on the geographic context of the race?

samfish

  • Cereal mispeller
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13266 on: January 21, 2018, 08:49:53 PM »
fucking worthless party

You would think with Hollywood basically being framed as the Democratic party's Sodom, you could put together some better marketing?

Healthcare, education, labor rights, woman's rights, weed legalization, criminal justice reform, internet rights, climate change, and infrastructure. What is so hard about running on that and just tailoring them based on the geographic context of the race?

Well, they'd have to genuinely care about those things to begin with. I don't think the Democrats have cared about most of those issues either ever (internet rights) or for a long time (education, labor rights, weed legalization and arguably healthcare)

Boredfrom

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13267 on: January 21, 2018, 08:54:41 PM »
fucking worthless party

You would think with Hollywood basically being framed as the Democratic party's Sodom, you could put together some better marketing?

Healthcare, education, labor rights, woman's rights, weed legalization, criminal justice reform, internet rights, climate change, and infrastructure. What is so hard about running on that and just tailoring them based on the geographic context of the race?

You get  YT video of the Avengers offering you seeing a naked actor if you vote for Hillary.

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13268 on: January 21, 2018, 09:41:37 PM »
fucking worthless party

You would think with Hollywood basically being framed as the Democratic party's Sodom, you could put together some better marketing?

Healthcare, education, labor rights, woman's rights, weed legalization, criminal justice reform, internet rights, climate change, and infrastructure. What is so hard about running on that and just tailoring them based on the geographic context of the race?

Well, they'd have to genuinely care about those things to begin with. I don't think the Democrats have cared about most of those issues either ever (internet rights) or for a long time (education, labor rights, weed legalization and arguably healthcare)


I think the sticking point has been that the party, right or wrong, has seen more value in pursuing third-way strategies that try to appeal to moderates and conservatives over seeing value in energizing the base to mobilize turnout. And you see the long-term backlash of that today. With the emergence of the Bernie wing and disenchanted voters that see the party as one that has lost its core values....And to an extent they are right. The party has/had basically publicly abandoned the sort of Great Society/New Deal idealism anchors that drove the party in the past. Shying away from owning those platforms.


At the same time, Democrats are the only thing that, for instance, has held the monopolistic ISP's from completely capturing their regulatory agencies and enforcing consumer driven regulations until the pendulum finally swung to the Republicans and they went full steam ahead with the fuckery. Very rarely are you getting any concern for that from Republicans. Same goes with healthcare, labor rights, weed legalization, or anything else.

I mean lets just imagine a hypothetical 2020 government. You somehow have 75 Democrats in the Senate(taking away the possibility of some Joe Lieberman style fuckery poisoning an entire agenda), a 2008 level majority in the House, what do you think Democrats do on those issues exactly? As cynical as I am on the party's competency, I see an agenda where a lot of that stuff gets addressed positively.

El Babua

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13269 on: January 21, 2018, 09:49:04 PM »
The current Democratic leadership still has PTSD from Mondale and Dukakis.

That's why someone like Biden in 2020 wouldn't work cause they're still stuck fighting battles from 30 years ago while the future for the majority of Americans have gotten more uncertain since.

Assimilate

  • Now bringing you *Zen*
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13270 on: January 21, 2018, 11:05:12 PM »
The dem's obsession with illegal immigrants is fucking strange. A country has a right to say who can or cannot come in. Just because your dickhole dead jumped over a fence doesn't mean you have a right to stay. Stay and fix the country you're escaping from, how about that for a fresh idea?

People think some republicans are "racist" or "bigots" because they fight illegal immigration.... my family were immigrants to the country, but they came here when they were allowed to, legally. Why the fuck should i defend your right because you snuck in? GTFO.

When the country needs more immigrants, let them in. Until then, get out. Tough shit.

Boredfrom

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13271 on: January 21, 2018, 11:25:08 PM »
3/10


Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13272 on: January 21, 2018, 11:25:47 PM »
People think some republicans are "racist" or "bigots" because they fight illegal immigration.... my family were immigrants to the country, but they came here when they were allowed to, legally. Why the fuck should i defend your right because you snuck in? GTFO.


Quote
Stay and fix the country you're escaping from, how about that for a fresh idea?


 :playa



Assimilate

  • Now bringing you *Zen*
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13273 on: January 21, 2018, 11:49:26 PM »
People think some republicans are "racist" or "bigots" because they fight illegal immigration.... my family were immigrants to the country, but they came here when they were allowed to, legally. Why the fuck should i defend your right because you snuck in? GTFO.


Quote
Stay and fix the country you're escaping from, how about that for a fresh idea?


 :playa
Different situation. No one was escaping, they came because of a job transfer.

But go on

 :clap

shosta

  • Y = λ𝑓. (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥)) (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥))
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13274 on: January 21, 2018, 11:50:50 PM »
What's that one Lincoln quote where he complains that the Democrats held only one third of government (the Senate) but acted like they controlled the whole thing (by blocking legislation)?
每天生气

agrajag

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13275 on: January 21, 2018, 11:52:19 PM »
Assimilates' family were one of the Good Ones

Assimilate

  • Now bringing you *Zen*
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13276 on: January 21, 2018, 11:54:38 PM »
Assimilates' family were one of the Good Ones

There is such a thing but i know that's hard for some of you reset types to understand

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13277 on: January 21, 2018, 11:58:52 PM »
Assimilates' family were one of the Good Ones

There is such a thing but i know that's hard for some of you reset types to understand

 :comeon :gurl :PP

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13278 on: January 22, 2018, 12:05:04 AM »
People think some republicans are "racist" or "bigots" because they fight illegal immigration.... my family were immigrants to the country, but they came here when they were allowed to, legally. Why the fuck should i defend your right because you snuck in? GTFO.


Quote
Stay and fix the country you're escaping from, how about that for a fresh idea?


 :playa
Different situation. No one was escaping, they came because of a job transfer.

But go on

 :clap

Thats not really for you to decide now is it you dirty foreigner. How about you fix your own damn country before thinking you have a right to stay in this one?

Kara

  • It was all going to be very admirable and noble and it would show us - philosophically - what it means to be human.
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13279 on: January 22, 2018, 12:10:36 AM »
The dem's obsession with illegal immigrants is fucking strange. A country has a right to say who can or cannot come in. Just because your dickhole dead jumped over a fence doesn't mean you have a right to stay. Stay and fix the country you're escaping from, how about that for a fresh idea?

It's not like the president will sell weapons to another country that's a vague existential threat to Our Freedoms™ and use the money to fund a rebellion that enjoys minority support but kills lots of people if you try or anything.

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13280 on: January 22, 2018, 12:18:10 AM »
The dem's obsession with illegal immigrants is fucking strange. A country has a right to say who can or cannot come in. Just because your dickhole dead jumped over a fence doesn't mean you have a right to stay. Stay and fix the country you're escaping from, how about that for a fresh idea?

It's not like the president will sell weapons to another country that's a vague existential threat to Our Freedoms™ and use the money to fund a rebellion that enjoys minority support but kills lots of people if you try or anything.

What do you mean American's insatiable appetite for drugs and drug laws is fueling endless vicious cycle of cartel wars south of the border that is displacing and forcing countless families to live in fear or flee? That ain't our responsibility.

samfish

  • Cereal mispeller
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13281 on: January 22, 2018, 12:18:29 AM »
fucking worthless party

You would think with Hollywood basically being framed as the Democratic party's Sodom, you could put together some better marketing?

Healthcare, education, labor rights, woman's rights, weed legalization, criminal justice reform, internet rights, climate change, and infrastructure. What is so hard about running on that and just tailoring them based on the geographic context of the race?

Well, they'd have to genuinely care about those things to begin with. I don't think the Democrats have cared about most of those issues either ever (internet rights) or for a long time (education, labor rights, weed legalization and arguably healthcare)


I think the sticking point has been that the party, right or wrong, has seen more value in pursuing third-way strategies that try to appeal to moderates and conservatives over seeing value in energizing the base to mobilize turnout. And you see the long-term backlash of that today. With the emergence of the Bernie wing and disenchanted voters that see the party as one that has lost its core values....And to an extent they are right. The party has/had basically publicly abandoned the sort of Great Society/New Deal idealism anchors that drove the party in the past. Shying away from owning those platforms.


At the same time, Democrats are the only thing that, for instance, has held the monopolistic ISP's from completely capturing their regulatory agencies and enforcing consumer driven regulations until the pendulum finally swung to the Republicans and they went full steam ahead with the fuckery. Very rarely are you getting any concern for that from Republicans. Same goes with healthcare, labor rights, weed legalization, or anything else.

I mean lets just imagine a hypothetical 2020 government. You somehow have 75 Democrats in the Senate(taking away the possibility of some Joe Lieberman style fuckery poisoning an entire agenda), a 2008 level majority in the House, what do you think Democrats do on those issues exactly? As cynical as I am on the party's competency, I see an agenda where a lot of that stuff gets addressed positively.

You'd see a lot of people suddenly become more conservative Democrat types, just like Lieberman did between 2006-2010. Some issues, like Obamacare, would get restored back to how they were originally, but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't bother with a public option even with a supermajority. You'd see a lot of efforts to involve the Republicans, who would dutifully gum up the works and delay everything. Just like 2006-2010.

In this hypothetical scenario, would things get better? A lot better, even? Sure. But the sort of People First populist transformation that so many people in America have clearly been hungering for since the Bush administration would not be addressed. Labor rights in our little fantasy wouldn't be overhauled. Some major environmental legislation would almost certainly not be enacted. A major overhaul of economic philosophy, which is ultimately the foundation of what we REALLY need, would not be done. They would just work to make the already broken system slightly more tolerable.

Assimilate

  • Now bringing you *Zen*
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13282 on: January 22, 2018, 12:32:54 AM »
The dem's obsession with illegal immigrants is fucking strange. A country has a right to say who can or cannot come in. Just because your dickhole dead jumped over a fence doesn't mean you have a right to stay. Stay and fix the country you're escaping from, how about that for a fresh idea?

It's not like the president will sell weapons to another country that's a vague existential threat to Our Freedoms™ and use the money to fund a rebellion that enjoys minority support but kills lots of people if you try or anything.

What do you mean American's insatiable appetite for drugs and drug laws is fueling endless vicious cycle of cartel wars south of the border that is displacing and forcing countless families to live in fear or flee? That ain't our responsibility.
Oh of course it has to America's fault you allow your country to be controlled by drug cartels.

It's strange, no one else around the world has any control of themselves or their shitty ass culture so it's people should able to flee to the country that is responsible?  :lol

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13283 on: January 22, 2018, 12:37:35 AM »
The dem's obsession with illegal immigrants is fucking strange. A country has a right to say who can or cannot come in. Just because your dickhole dead jumped over a fence doesn't mean you have a right to stay. Stay and fix the country you're escaping from, how about that for a fresh idea?

It's not like the president will sell weapons to another country that's a vague existential threat to Our Freedoms™ and use the money to fund a rebellion that enjoys minority support but kills lots of people if you try or anything.

What do you mean American's insatiable appetite for drugs and drug laws is fueling endless vicious cycle of cartel wars south of the border that is displacing and forcing countless families to live in fear or flee? That ain't our responsibility.
Oh of course it has to America's fault you allow your country to be controlled by drug cartels.

It's strange, no one else around the world has any control of themselves or their shitty ass culture so it's people should able to flee to the country that is responsible?  :lol

Man climate change is gonna wreck your world view.

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13284 on: January 22, 2018, 12:47:46 AM »


You'd see a lot of people suddenly become more conservative Democrat types, just like Lieberman did between 2006-2010. Some issues, like Obamacare, would get restored back to how they were originally, but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't bother with a public option even with a supermajority. You'd see a lot of efforts to involve the Republicans, who would dutifully gum up the works and delay everything. Just like 2006-2010.

In this hypothetical scenario, would things get better? A lot better, even? Sure. But the sort of People First populist transformation that so many people in America have clearly been hungering for since the Bush administration would not be addressed. Labor rights in our little fantasy wouldn't be overhauled. Some major environmental legislation would almost certainly not be enacted. A major overhaul of economic philosophy, which is ultimately what we REALLY need, would not be done. They would just work to make the already broken system slightly more tolerable.

Why do you think so? I tend to think the opposite, the party and the country has shed more of it's post-Reaganism resistance to socialist ideas(I wouldn't exactly agree the country has longed for them since Bush), and a super majority in that environment would also theoretically reflect that. Plus, as supporting evidence, when you looked at the super majority House back in 2009, they were out there passing much more comprehensive types of reform, including cap and trade and a public option with much stronger reform structures, and would of easily gone further if they weren't pre-empting the response of a fragile veto proof majority in the senate and a determined opposition party. In fact, if you go read the critiques of that period, Pelosi was hit with using her disproportionate majority too strongly with regards to what the Senate could muster given the weaker majorities. The problem was the very few centrist Democrats like Lieberman and unified Republican opposition. Even as you say, the issue with super majorities is the lack of numbers to over-power the other guys.


You are probably right that they aren't going to be implementing some sort of wholesale socialist agenda, but I think its pretty safe to say that a super majority, in today's environment, would push forward a ton of needed reforms, and that is the sort of situation you are going to have a much easier time lobbying and influencing then some Republican regime. You aren't ever getting campaign finance reform passed on the heels of Republican majorities, or climate change legislation, or increased labor protections, or a public option.

Frankly, procedurally, one of the ironies of this era of Republican's breaking all these procedural norms on things like ACA repeal and tax reform is that it makes things a whole lot easier for Democrats next go round. It's really hard to stay within the bounds of the Senate parliamentarian on the AHCA McConnell wanted to pass to say at 50, it's actually a lot easier to pass something like a public option, Medicare and Medicaid buy-in, under that arrangement. And now that the Republicans attacks on procedure and their subsequent abuse has eroded any legitimacy Democrats felt from attacks of that sort, there is little reason to think Democrats will be swayed against that pathway next time.

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13285 on: January 22, 2018, 12:58:28 AM »
The dem's obsession with illegal immigrants is fucking strange. A country has a right to say who can or cannot come in. Just because your dickhole dead jumped over a fence doesn't mean you have a right to stay. Stay and fix the country you're escaping from, how about that for a fresh idea?

It's not like the president will sell weapons to another country that's a vague existential threat to Our Freedoms™ and use the money to fund a rebellion that enjoys minority support but kills lots of people if you try or anything.

What do you mean American's insatiable appetite for drugs and drug laws is fueling endless vicious cycle of cartel wars south of the border that is displacing and forcing countless families to live in fear or flee? That ain't our responsibility.
Oh of course it has to America's fault you allow your country to be controlled by drug cartels.

It's strange, no one else around the world has any control of themselves or their shitty ass culture so it's people should able to flee to the country that is responsible?  :lol

Man climate change is gonna wreck your world view.

It's odd, people that have a tendency to indirectly subscribe to beliefs that infer how the melanin level of a person's body directly correlates to their intelligence and culture, seem to always find ways to rationalize to themselves what are obvious logical gaps to everyone else.

IDK, maybe it's genetic?

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13286 on: January 22, 2018, 01:00:40 AM »
The Dems have definitely moved to the left over the last decade.

The question that bugs me is how much of that shift is "real" vs. how much came from the party shrinking and losing Blue Dog style centrists (and as a result, what sort of concessions to centrism would we expect for the party to get a 2009-size majority again).

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13287 on: January 22, 2018, 01:23:58 AM »
The Dems have definitely moved to the left over the last decade.

The question that bugs me is how much of that shift is "real" vs. how much came from the party shrinking and losing Blue Dog style centrists (and as a result, what sort of concessions to centrism would we expect for the party to get a 2009-size majority again).

Hard to say. But I think you are bringing up the core point that all this discussion leads to. And not sure anyone will really know until at least 2018 and probably even then you could make the case it is just historical precedent driving things. Not some wholesale sea change in American's mindset or tribal preferences.


For instance, I think about it in terms of healthcare, there has certainly never been more support for the ACA since its passage. Which helped by exposing that the GOP's promises were empty barrels. And if Kaiser's results are to be believed, the first time in their history that a majority of Americans(albeit very small majority) support single payer.

At the same time, a lot changes when the disinformation machines and the emotional appeals of politics get going. Lots of people believed in the government's role to provide people some sort of healthcare on the heels of Obama's election according to Gallup. By 2010 that majority had flipped back to a minority thanks to sustained disinformation. Its now back up to 55% or so a year ago, still below what it was pre-Obama.  Hard to make sense of what way to lean on that matter. Lots of conflicting signals. I definitely think the party is more emboldened to chase stronger reforms, and the erosion or procedural norms make that a lot easier, how strong that will be I hesitate to say.

seagrams hotsauce

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13288 on: January 22, 2018, 02:05:30 AM »
Hey assimilate what country did you come from

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13289 on: January 22, 2018, 02:38:31 AM »
Hey assimilate what country did you come from

One of those shitholes  :doge

ToxicAdam

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13290 on: January 22, 2018, 08:38:28 AM »
The dem's obsession with illegal immigrants is fucking strange. 

Not really strange. It's a numbers game for them and more immigrants = more likely Democrat voter (second generation if they are illegals).


Also, the rise of the Tea Party made it an easy issue to gravitate towards. They had very xenophobic and simplistic views on the topic.



Brehvolution

  • Until at last, I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin upon the mountainside.
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13291 on: January 22, 2018, 09:22:31 AM »
DACA isn't an obsession with illegal immigrants. It's a protection for a group of people who were brought here as kids. People like assimilate.
©ZH

Assimilate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13292 on: January 22, 2018, 09:34:52 AM »
DACA isn't an obsession with illegal immigrants. It's a protection for a group of people who were brought here as kids. People like assimilate.
Legally.

That's the issue most people have with this. What right do people have coming here illegally? The difference is a lot of people on the left feel like hey since they got here, no matter how, they got here and should stay.

Imagine if we were a European country dealing with the migrant crisis. Would you just freely let everyone in? People from a culture that directly contradicts western values no less?

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13293 on: January 22, 2018, 09:38:52 AM »
Illegally, but they had no say in the matter, and have pretty much grown up in the US.

It’s hard for me to justify punishing someone for coming to the country illegally when they were dragged here by their parents when they were 5.

And it seems cruel to send them back to a home country they may have never even been to since.

agrajag

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13294 on: January 22, 2018, 09:41:36 AM »
It's not the kids' fault you dumb fuck. They were raised in this country, their primary language is english, many of them can't even speak anything but english, they are contributing members of society, no less than you. Stop acting like you're a special snowflake just because you had more fortunate circumstances than other kida.

Assimilate

  • Now bringing you *Zen*
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13295 on: January 22, 2018, 09:41:46 AM »
Illegally, but they had no say in the matter, and have pretty much grown up in the US.

It’s hard for me to justify punishing someone for coming to the country illegally when they were dragged here by their parents when they were 5.

And it seems cruel to send them back to a home country they may have never even been to since.
I'm in agreement with you in this situation. If they are working citizens then they should stay. DACA isn't something i have a problem with.

I think it's more about sending a message to people that are currently trying to get in illegally.

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13296 on: January 22, 2018, 10:00:22 AM »
I deal with immigration a lot in a roundabout way, in that most of the people I manage at work are immigrants. The system is a mess, in general.

The H1B system is dumb, and seems custom-built to benefit companies willing to operate unscrupulously, and it harms the immigrant, companies that aren’t h1b mills, and domestic citizens. It’s a shitty system that benefits almost none of the people it should.

OPT with the 12 month extension is a good idea, but really should go longer.

IMO, the system (at least for graduates of American colleges, which is what I have experience with) should look something like “you  graduate, and get a no work restrictions Visa for 5 years, and assuming that you end up going those 5 years with no major crimes, then you get an expedited path to citizenship, or leave.

Assimilate

  • Now bringing you *Zen*
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13297 on: January 22, 2018, 10:05:24 AM »
I deal with immigration a lot in a roundabout way, in that most of the people I manage at work are immigrants. The system is a mess, in general.

The H1B system is dumb, and seems custom-built to benefit companies willing to operate unscrupulously, and it harms the immigrant, companies that aren’t h1b mills, and domestic citizens. It’s a shitty system that benefits almost none of the people it should.

OPT with the 12 month extension is a good idea, but really should go longer.

IMO, the system (at least for graduates of American colleges, which is what I have experience with) should look something like “you  graduate, and get a no work restrictions Visa for 5 years, and assuming that you end up going those 5 years with no major crimes, then you get an expedited path to citizenship, or leave.
yeah the system is messed up but it's always dems that don't want immigration reform in any meaningful way because they don't want to commit to a lot of concessions

Tasty

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13298 on: January 22, 2018, 11:09:28 AM »
Imagine if we were a European country dealing with the migrant crisis. Would you just freely let everyone in? People from a culture that directly contradicts western values no less?

I didn't know we had esteemed YouTuber Jontron on the boards. Hi Jon!

agrajag

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13299 on: January 22, 2018, 11:14:16 AM »
Illegal immigrants that have demonstrated the ingenuity and attrition to stay here for decades undetected and the love for this country to integrate into the society, hold steady jobs, pay taxes, contribute to the economy, and raise good kids deserve amnesty and a path to citizenship. Nothing more Amurrican than that :usacry

Tasty

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13300 on: January 22, 2018, 11:16:32 AM »
Can't wait for Assimilate's posts about rich blacks committing more crime than poor whites.  :putin

Assimilate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13301 on: January 22, 2018, 11:28:53 AM »
Can't wait for Assimilate's posts about rich blacks committing more crime than poor whites.  :putin
i don't know what's worse someone like that (that you think i am) or someone like you that probably excuses everything because someone is 'brown'.

derp, let's just let in a bunch of young men from a foreign country that hold beliefs that are at complete odds with our values. Makes a whole lot of sense to me  :doge


Sweden  :neogaf https://www.resetera.com/threads/swedish-pm-does-not-rule-out-use-of-army-to-end-gang-violence.17998/

hows that immigration policy working out for ya? haha fucking progressive liberals don't know what to do now. call in the army!  :jawalrus
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 11:33:49 AM by Assimilate »

fistfulofmetal

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13302 on: January 22, 2018, 11:34:12 AM »
mixing of cultures can be a messy process but it's ultimately for the benefit of society.
nat

Assimilate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13303 on: January 22, 2018, 11:40:18 AM »
mixing of cultures can be a messy process but it's ultimately for the benefit of society.
depends on the culture you are mixing. some cultures dare i say, assimilate to their new environments a lot better than others. also, some cultures are less violent, their values better in line with their adopted country.

there's other cultures that are dogshit and i rather not even deal with them

fistfulofmetal

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13304 on: January 22, 2018, 11:43:03 AM »
you get shitty oppressive cultures specifically because of race and culture exclusive (and probably a host of other reasons as well). the best way to break out of the bubble is to expose people from different backgrounds to each other. i don't necessarily support it to be done forcefully, but i definitely also don't support limiting it based on someones background. you deal with the bad as it comes and work to improve things along the way.
nat

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13305 on: January 22, 2018, 11:45:12 AM »
mixing of cultures can be a messy process but it's ultimately for the benefit of society.
depends on the culture you are mixing. some cultures dare i say, assimilate to their new environments a lot better than others. also, some cultures are less violent, their values better in line with their adopted country.

there's other cultures that are dogshit and i rather not even deal with them

Don’t be shy, we’re all friends here, what cultures are we speaking of? What makes an entire culture incompatible with America?

Trurl

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13306 on: January 22, 2018, 11:52:10 AM »
I'm feeling a strong urge to deport Assimilate.

BTW, did you choose your handle based on your Archie Bunker views on immigration?  :lol

Tasty

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13307 on: January 22, 2018, 11:56:37 AM »
I actually triggered Assimilate :crowdlaff

Assimilate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13308 on: January 22, 2018, 11:59:25 AM »
you get shitty oppressive cultures specifically because of race and culture exclusive (and probably a host of other reasons as well). the best way to break out of the bubble is to expose people from different backgrounds to each other. i don't necessarily support it to be done forcefully, but i definitely also don't support limiting it based on someones background. you deal with the bad as it comes and work to improve things along the way.
You're not wrong but you're willing to do that for said culture? The older i get the less patience i have. I don't give a fuck, and i think that's why so many young ideological liberals fail to understand older conservatives or centrists.

The older you get the harder you have worked for your life, and you just wanna sit back and chill, enjoy shit. You don't want to deal with nonsense. I can't even imagine what some Swedes are going through. All of a sudden they have a serious gang violence problem 

:mueller

seagrams hotsauce

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13309 on: January 22, 2018, 12:02:04 PM »
Hey stupid what country

Assimilate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13310 on: January 22, 2018, 12:06:38 PM »
Hey stupid what country
I"m not given out any personal information so i can get doxxed by benji  :doge

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13311 on: January 22, 2018, 12:07:10 PM »
You're not wrong but you're willing to do that for said culture? The older i get the less patience i have. I don't give a fuck, and i think that's why so many young ideological liberals fail to understand older conservatives or centrists.

The older you get the harder you have worked for your life, and you just wanna sit back and chill, enjoy shit. You don't want to deal with nonsense. I can't even imagine what some Swedes are going through. All of a sudden they have a serious gang violence problem 

:mueller

More people are murdered or have crimes committed against them by US citizens than immigrants of any status, as a percentage of their population. If that was your only metric, you would actually have less bullshit to deal with if you replaced the total population with immigrants... What a worthless rationalization.


And why are you dodging my question?

Assimilate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13312 on: January 22, 2018, 12:08:10 PM »
You're not wrong but you're willing to do that for said culture? The older i get the less patience i have. I don't give a fuck, and i think that's why so many young ideological liberals fail to understand older conservatives or centrists.

The older you get the harder you have worked for your life, and you just wanna sit back and chill, enjoy shit. You don't want to deal with nonsense. I can't even imagine what some Swedes are going through. All of a sudden they have a serious gang violence problem 

:mueller

More people are murdered or have crimes committed against them by US citizens than immigrants of any status. If that was your only metric, you would actually have less bullshit to deal with if you replaced the total population with immigrants... What a worthless rationalization.
  oh boy, this is straight out of resetera lol

 :mindblown

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13313 on: January 22, 2018, 12:09:05 PM »
You're not wrong but you're willing to do that for said culture? The older i get the less patience i have. I don't give a fuck, and i think that's why so many young ideological liberals fail to understand older conservatives or centrists.

The older you get the harder you have worked for your life, and you just wanna sit back and chill, enjoy shit. You don't want to deal with nonsense. I can't even imagine what some Swedes are going through. All of a sudden they have a serious gang violence problem 

:mueller

More people are murdered or have crimes committed against them by US citizens than immigrants of any status. If that was your only metric, you would actually have less bullshit to deal with if you replaced the total population with immigrants... What a worthless rationalization.
  oh boy, this is straight out of resetera lol



If that is your best response, I rest my case.

fistfulofmetal

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13314 on: January 22, 2018, 12:10:09 PM »
progress moves on slowly as the old curmudgeons die off and are replaced by other old and slightly less curmudgeony people. so honestly i don't really care if old people are scared about their lives because some immigrants are moving into their neighborhood. deal with it, bigots.
nat

seagrams hotsauce

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13315 on: January 22, 2018, 12:10:53 PM »
He dodges questions cuz he's a big fat distinguished mentally-challenged pussy. Initially I figured something scandinavian but he's apparently one of those "oslo is a rape jungle" tards so who knows

I'm a Puppy!

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13316 on: January 22, 2018, 12:12:42 PM »
Cindi, you're missing out, Assimilate is going on writing rather long odes to his love of mexican-muslim cock.
que

Assimilate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13317 on: January 22, 2018, 12:13:18 PM »
i don't really care if old people are scared about their lives because some immigrants are moving into their neighborhood.
because you probably don't deal with it yourself, like most young libtards that enjoy a suburbian privileged life and assume it's all like that everywhere. That Rosie is the sweet lady that cleans your toilet and room for you and therefore all outside cultures are wonderful  :duh

He dodges questions cuz he's a big fat distinguished mentally-challenged pussy. Initially I figured something scandinavian but he's apparently one of those "oslo is a rape jungle" tards so who knows

awww, Mr Beak. you make me blush  :uguu

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13318 on: January 22, 2018, 12:15:05 PM »
i don't really care if old people are scared about their lives because some immigrants are moving into their neighborhood.
because you probably don't deal with it yourself, like most young libtards that enjoy a suburbian privileged life and assume it's all like that everywhere. That Rosie is the sweet lady that cleans your toilet and room for you and therefore all outside cultures are wonderful  :duh

Still not answering my questions, or addressing the big fat elephant in the room about your heightened criminality due to immigration theory having a glaring hole in it.




TakingBackSunday

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| #benjishutdown
« Reply #13319 on: January 22, 2018, 12:22:50 PM »
Conversations like these just tire me out completely.  All the vitriol about hypothetical criminals, but man I just want everyone to get an opportunity to make their lives better.
püp