Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 5434707 times)

0 Members and 8 Guests are viewing this topic.

agrajag

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13560 on: January 27, 2018, 10:55:58 AM »
Don't you get tired of the shtick, benji

Like can't you got out and eat a cheeseburger

I love you but you post so goddamned much
how long does it take you to eat a cheeseburger???

spoiler (click to show/hide)
and where do you think i get my hot political scoops if not the burger king?
[close]

I learned all I need to know about Net Neutrality from the King  :preach

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13561 on: January 27, 2018, 03:05:09 PM »
Our immigration policies are more lax than first world countries. It doesn't even make any sense. It's a broken system and you want to defend it as the definitive version? WTF?


Like almost all of your nonsense, this is also objectively untrue. Tell me, what is America's inflow of immigrants as a percentage of the population and where does it rank internationally amongst developed nations?

It actually depends on how you measure it. As a % of population it's probably quite low in comparison to other first world countries, but in terms of "lax policies", Assimilate pretty much nailed it. There aren't many countries that have an (albeit limited) open door immigration policy on a par with the visa lottery - in most first world countries you have to at least be able to prove that you bring something to the table, in terms of skills, academic achievements etc. With the lottery, you get in just for being in the right place at the right time.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Which ironically, is how Hillary got the Dem nomination
[close]

Nah, the program is relatively small, only applies to people from countries that aren’t already sending lots of immigrants through the normal highly competitive and restrictive immigration pathways. Excluded countries that tend to be the countries racists like Assimilate get so bent out of shape about. Even then, winners are still subject to vetting and background checks like other immigrants. And if safety is the primary concern, immigrants are far less likely to commit crimes than their native born counterparts. Recipients of the lottery, according to multiple studies, have a vastly lower incarceration rate than native born citizens. As a whole our immigrant population is increasingly educated, often on par or exceeding native born citizens when coming from many regions, and well integrated. Much of that was pointed out to Assimilate the other day before he got triggered and went off the deep end.

 If the argument is that our system is broken relatively to others because of process, you have a case(but you and I both know that isn’t the inference being made), as the failure to reform and improve the bureaucratic process leads to issues like overstayed visas and illegal immigration(though even that has been at a net negative for years now). If it is broken because of outcome and output, that couldn’t be further from the truth. America has been one of the most successful immigration countries throughout it’s history.



« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 03:09:23 PM by Nola »

Oblivion

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13562 on: January 27, 2018, 05:15:19 PM »
my read on him is that he mostly does it for himself and whether people are tired of him or not has never mattered and will never matter.

A libertarian ignoring the will of the people? Color me shocked.  :doge

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13563 on: January 27, 2018, 05:43:05 PM »
lul bill kristol's twitter got hacked

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13564 on: January 27, 2018, 06:16:35 PM »
No collusion?

https://twitter.com/krassenstein/status/957374850980597761

Exit: etiolate conveniently ignoring that the Dutch dropped an L on his head.

shosta

  • Y = λ𝑓. (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥)) (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥))
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13565 on: January 27, 2018, 06:28:37 PM »
Russians signal boosting the candidate they prefer is not "collusion". They also bolstered Jill Stein and other Democratic resentfuls. The point is to undermine the other candidate.
每天生气

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13566 on: January 27, 2018, 06:29:08 PM »
The dutch story is more claims without evidence. You may want to check the other dutch sources and the fact that it may be propaganda for a new anti-privacy surveillance bill in the Netherlands.

There's some pieces critical of the claim, one pointing towards the idiocy Russia would require to put a hacker group in a university after it had been revealed that the NSA was targeting foreign universities.

But you just have to look at the claim that the Dutch told the US about it and nothing was done to stop it for two years. Kind of suspect to just let it go on. 

I'm not placing faith in deep state claims without evidence, and the fact that this group in the Netherlands was influenced by the NSA, is trying to get a bill passed, and got their story sprung around the net quickly... raises alarms. We've been down that road. What is the claim? That Russia hacked the DNC. We've heard that claim and I asked for evidence, but instead I get the same claim from anon US and Dutch sources? Recognize a shell game when you come across one

I do appreciate that kingv laid out his corkboard, including Wiki as a Russian truth launderer.  Because the claim is that what the DNC was doing got Trump elected, which is a shoot the messenger PR spin. (When you can't even properly ID the messenger lul.)

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13567 on: January 27, 2018, 06:39:36 PM »
Russians signal boosting the candidate they prefer is not "collusion". They also bolstered Jill Stein and other Democratic resentfuls. The point is to undermine the other candidate.

It's a lot more than just signal boosting though.

This also shows that wiki leaks is yet again tied to Russia. Which means Trump working with them...

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13568 on: January 27, 2018, 06:43:01 PM »
Russians signal boosting the candidate they prefer is not "collusion". They also bolstered Jill Stein and other Democratic resentfuls. The point is to undermine the other candidate.

No, but it’s “collusion” when they tell the candidate they are doing that and then the candidate says “ok, yeah, that sounds great, but do it later in the summer”. That hasn’t 100% been nailed down in public documents, but it sure seems likely based on the Don Jr email chain, and knowing that there is 100% confirmation that Russia hacked The DNC before setting up the trump tower meeting.

And collusion, as it were, isn’t actually a crime, but that act encompasses other things that are crimes.

Also, that wasn’t what I was getting at. Etiolate often argues that Seth rich hacked the dnc because of download speeds.

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13569 on: January 27, 2018, 06:44:43 PM »
The dutch story is more claims without evidence. You may want to check the other dutch sources and the fact that it may be propaganda for a new anti-privacy surveillance bill in the Netherlands.

There's some pieces critical of the claim, one pointing towards the idiocy Russia would require to put a hacker group in a university after it had been revealed that the NSA was targeting foreign universities.

But you just have to look at the claim that the Dutch told the US about it and nothing was done to stop it for two years. Kind of suspect to just let it go on. 

I'm not placing faith in deep state claims without evidence, and the fact that this group in the Netherlands was influenced by the NSA, is trying to get a bill passed, and got their story sprung around the net quickly... raises alarms. We've been down that road. What is the claim? That Russia hacked the DNC. We've heard that claim and I asked for evidence, but instead I get the same claim from anon US and Dutch sources? Recognize a shell game when you come across one

I do appreciate that kingv laid out his corkboard, including Wiki as a Russian truth launderer.  Because the claim is that what the DNC was doing got Trump elected, which is a shoot the messenger PR spin. (When you can't even properly ID the messenger lul.)

I would read the article where it specifically said that the Dutch warned about the dnc hack in April 2016, and the 2015 hack was about a hack into the state department.

Hoisted by your own distinguished mentally-challenged fellow.

Actually, you are half right. Cozy bear hacked dnc in 2015 and then again in 2016.

Nintex

  • Finish the Fight
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13570 on: January 27, 2018, 06:47:08 PM »
The story makes the Russians seem fairly incompetent too.
Like a bunch of script kiddies with a camera pointed at them trying to break into the DNC and other places from across the Kremlin.
None of the Zero Days advanced cyber weapons just some good old school hacking.

Also if the US knew this, why didn't they investigate the DNC servers. The DNC didn't want the FBI to look at those servers and the FBI said: "Ok, whatever".

The Twitter Bot scare is also dumb as shit.
I mean those bots also retweet Hot Russian Tits when it's trending.
The bots are made to retweet top trending stories and then try to get people to click on bogus links for ad money or trojans or other shit.
But as the news media did nothing else but post and boost Trump stuff it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that the bots retweeted anything with 'Trump' in it.
It made sense because it was good for clicks. Hell, those bots are still active. Just type in Trump on Twitter and you still see them posting daily.

The real Russian trolling was there though, the Russians posing as BLM is an hilarious example of them messing around with the election or the weird Jesus vs. Clinton pictures.

The rest was just 4chan and scammers. The media is chasing after their own tails.
🤴

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13571 on: January 27, 2018, 06:47:44 PM »
The dutch story is more claims without evidence. You may want to check the other dutch sources and the fact that it may be propaganda for a new anti-privacy surveillance bill in the Netherlands.

There's some pieces critical of the claim, one pointing towards the idiocy Russia would require to put a hacker group in a university after it had been revealed that the NSA was targeting foreign universities.

But you just have to look at the claim that the Dutch told the US about it and nothing was done to stop it for two years. Kind of suspect to just let it go on. 

I'm not placing faith in deep state claims without evidence, and the fact that this group in the Netherlands was influenced by the NSA, is trying to get a bill passed, and got their story sprung around the net quickly... raises alarms. We've been down that road. What is the claim? That Russia hacked the DNC. We've heard that claim and I asked for evidence, but instead I get the same claim from anon US and Dutch sources? Recognize a shell game when you come across one

I do appreciate that kingv laid out his corkboard, including Wiki as a Russian truth launderer.  Because the claim is that what the DNC was doing got Trump elected, which is a shoot the messenger PR spin. (When you can't even properly ID the messenger lul.)

I would read the article where it specifically said that the Dutch warned about the dnc hack in April 2016, and the 2015 hack was about a hack into the state department.

Hoisted by your own distinguished mentally-challenged fellow.

 :whew :whoo :obama

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13572 on: January 27, 2018, 06:48:53 PM »
The story makes the Russians seem fairly incompetent too.
Like a bunch of script kiddies with a camera pointed at them trying to break into the DNC and other places from across the Kremlin.
None of the Zero Days advanced cyber weapons just some good old school hacking.

Also if the US knew this, why didn't they investigate the DNC servers. The DNC didn't want the FBI to look at those servers and the FBI said: "Ok, whatever".

The Twitter Bot scare is also dumb as shit.
I mean those bots also retweet Hot Russian Tits when it's trending.
The bots are made to retweet top trending stories and then try to get people to click on bogus links for ad money or trojans or other shit.
But as the news media did nothing else but post and boost Trump stuff it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that the bots retweeted anything with 'Trump' in it.
It made sense because it was good for clicks. Hell, those bots are still active. Just type in Trump on Twitter and you still see them posting daily.

The real Russian trolling was there though, the Russians posing as BLM is an hilarious example of them messing around with the election or the weird Jesus vs. Clinton pictures.

The rest was just 4chan and scammers. The media is chasing after their own tails.


A take so scorching Charles Barkley had something to say.

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13573 on: January 27, 2018, 06:49:20 PM »
This also shows that wiki leaks is yet again tied to Russia.
I suppose that's one thing to read into how their bots were likely programmed to automatically RT Wikileaks posts mentioning certain things. Same as Trump's.

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13574 on: January 27, 2018, 06:53:13 PM »
This also shows that wiki leaks is yet again tied to Russia.
I suppose that's one thing to read into how their bots were likely programmed to automatically RT Wikileaks posts mentioning certain things. Same as Trump's.

Eventually coincidences stop being that and are just patterns of behavior. :doge

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13575 on: January 27, 2018, 06:56:58 PM »
This just believes some of you dumb dumbs will always find some pizzagate level argument no matter what proof is shown to you.

Security agencies: the Russians hacked the DNC
Deniers: prove it. There’s like download speeds and nobody in Russia works in the middle of the night
Dutch: we have video tape of them while they were hacking. They were sitting in a building in the red square.
Deniers: the Russians are too good to get caught like that

It’s no skin on my back if you want to continue to believe your conspiracy theories, but understand that the circular logic you present leaves no room for any information to ever actually prove that the Russians did it, because you’re claiming that you need to see proof, but simultaneously that the Russian are so good that it can never be proven that they did it.

If true, then Not being able to prove it would suggest that if you can’t prove it, that there are high odds that it was the Russians because nobody else is that good. :doge

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13576 on: January 27, 2018, 06:58:54 PM »
I'd say the U.S. has been quite open about its opinion that any kind of leaks are to be considered a threat to national security. No need for coincidences when they right up front establish their behavior pattern.

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13577 on: January 27, 2018, 07:00:01 PM »
The dutch story is more claims without evidence. You may want to check the other dutch sources and the fact that it may be propaganda for a new anti-privacy surveillance bill in the Netherlands.

There's some pieces critical of the claim, one pointing towards the idiocy Russia would require to put a hacker group in a university after it had been revealed that the NSA was targeting foreign universities.

But you just have to look at the claim that the Dutch told the US about it and nothing was done to stop it for two years. Kind of suspect to just let it go on. 

I'm not placing faith in deep state claims without evidence, and the fact that this group in the Netherlands was influenced by the NSA, is trying to get a bill passed, and got their story sprung around the net quickly... raises alarms. We've been down that road. What is the claim? That Russia hacked the DNC. We've heard that claim and I asked for evidence, but instead I get the same claim from anon US and Dutch sources? Recognize a shell game when you come across one

I do appreciate that kingv laid out his corkboard, including Wiki as a Russian truth launderer.  Because the claim is that what the DNC was doing got Trump elected, which is a shoot the messenger PR spin. (When you can't even properly ID the messenger lul.)

I would read the article where it specifically said that the Dutch warned about the dnc hack in April 2016, and the 2015 hack was about a hack into the state department.

Hoisted by your own distinguished mentally-challenged fellow.

Actually, you are half right. Cozy bear hacked dnc in 2015 and then again in 2016.

I read the article, son. It began in 2014. The point is that their warnings were somehow not heard or heeded. For two years. That this went on long enough for them to steal docs over a period of time is the suspect part.

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13578 on: January 27, 2018, 07:02:23 PM »
The dutch story is more claims without evidence. You may want to check the other dutch sources and the fact that it may be propaganda for a new anti-privacy surveillance bill in the Netherlands.

There's some pieces critical of the claim, one pointing towards the idiocy Russia would require to put a hacker group in a university after it had been revealed that the NSA was targeting foreign universities.

But you just have to look at the claim that the Dutch told the US about it and nothing was done to stop it for two years. Kind of suspect to just let it go on. 

I'm not placing faith in deep state claims without evidence, and the fact that this group in the Netherlands was influenced by the NSA, is trying to get a bill passed, and got their story sprung around the net quickly... raises alarms. We've been down that road. What is the claim? That Russia hacked the DNC. We've heard that claim and I asked for evidence, but instead I get the same claim from anon US and Dutch sources? Recognize a shell game when you come across one

I do appreciate that kingv laid out his corkboard, including Wiki as a Russian truth launderer.  Because the claim is that what the DNC was doing got Trump elected, which is a shoot the messenger PR spin. (When you can't even properly ID the messenger lul.)

I would read the article where it specifically said that the Dutch warned about the dnc hack in April 2016, and the 2015 hack was about a hack into the state department.

Hoisted by your own distinguished mentally-challenged fellow.

Actually, you are half right. Cozy bear hacked dnc in 2015 and then again in 2016.

I read the article, son. It began in 2014. The point is that their warnings were somehow not heard or heeded. For two years. That this went on long enough for them to steal docs over a period of time is the suspect part.

You think it's suspect this was going on for 2 years when we let 1000s die in LA during Katrina because it wasn't "Cost effective".

Brah negligence is easily explained.

Nintex

  • Finish the Fight
  • Senior Member
🤴

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13580 on: January 27, 2018, 07:04:01 PM »
The dutch story is more claims without evidence. You may want to check the other dutch sources and the fact that it may be propaganda for a new anti-privacy surveillance bill in the Netherlands.

There's some pieces critical of the claim, one pointing towards the idiocy Russia would require to put a hacker group in a university after it had been revealed that the NSA was targeting foreign universities.

But you just have to look at the claim that the Dutch told the US about it and nothing was done to stop it for two years. Kind of suspect to just let it go on. 

I'm not placing faith in deep state claims without evidence, and the fact that this group in the Netherlands was influenced by the NSA, is trying to get a bill passed, and got their story sprung around the net quickly... raises alarms. We've been down that road. What is the claim? That Russia hacked the DNC. We've heard that claim and I asked for evidence, but instead I get the same claim from anon US and Dutch sources? Recognize a shell game when you come across one

I do appreciate that kingv laid out his corkboard, including Wiki as a Russian truth launderer.  Because the claim is that what the DNC was doing got Trump elected, which is a shoot the messenger PR spin. (When you can't even properly ID the messenger lul.)

I would read the article where it specifically said that the Dutch warned about the dnc hack in April 2016, and the 2015 hack was about a hack into the state department.

Hoisted by your own distinguished mentally-challenged fellow.

Actually, you are half right. Cozy bear hacked dnc in 2015 and then again in 2016.

I read the article, son. It began in 2014. The point is that their warnings were somehow not heard or heeded. For two years. That this went on long enough for them to steal docs over a period of time is the suspect part.

How do you know their warnings were not heard nor heeded?

The US doesn’t work for the Dutch, and has no responsibility to tell them what they did or didn’t do in response.

This is also the same US intelligence agency told about 9/11 in advance....

D3RANG3D

  • The Bore's Like Bot
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13581 on: January 27, 2018, 07:04:18 PM »
(He's Bi)

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13582 on: January 27, 2018, 07:07:01 PM »
You do realize that you're spinning off of the main point stated at the very start of my reply.

Also, the russian bots (which we should have verified independently if we have not) were also tweeting both sides of #BLM back and forth, creating their own fights.

This is trolling, but its also the same divisive stuff that's been going on for decades. From the USSR times. It's not new. It might be some trolls with bots or it might be the same old shit. Even the Bloomberg article that guy cites calls the usage as "creating discord".

« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 07:11:27 PM by etiolate »

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member

Nintex

  • Finish the Fight
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13584 on: January 27, 2018, 07:28:03 PM »
Has Trump lost weight or is that his body double  :doge
🤴

team filler

  • filler
  • filler
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13585 on: January 27, 2018, 07:45:13 PM »
t h i c c bois
*****

Nintex

  • Finish the Fight
  • Senior Member
🤴

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13587 on: January 27, 2018, 08:22:54 PM »
Remember when those stories came out about how they were going to drop a billion on the 2016 race.

And then they essentially sat it out (less than $25 million combined on contributions and lobbying in the cycle) when they saw the clusterfuck that was the Republican primaries. And even stopped given their token amounts to the GOP when Trump became the nominee.

That article even reads like the ones I remember from three years ago. THE BIGGEST MEETING, SECRETIVE, THE KOCH NETWORK, etc.

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13588 on: January 27, 2018, 08:24:41 PM »
Quote
Also Saturday, the Koch network, whose policies are clearly conservative but lean libertarian, lauded Trump for the framework he introduced to provide legal status to the "Dreamers," illegal immigrants brought to the U.S. as young children by their parents through no fault of their own.

“Immigrants are essential to the success of our country and addressing the plight of the dreamers is a top priority for this Network. We are committed to working with Congress and the White House to find a solution that does this without arbitrarily reducing the number of people who come here to contribute,” Brian Hooks, co-chairman of Koch's Seminar Network, said in a statement.

The Koch group was pleased to see Trump put legalization on the table for the full population of Dreamers. But it is concerned about the parts of the president's framework that propose reducing legal immigration significantly and possibly abolish "chain migration," also known as "family reunification."

“We applaud the president for taking this important step towards a bipartisan compromise that delivers enhanced security for our nation and permanent legal status for 1.8 million Dreamers, ensuring they have the legal certainty to plan their lives and increase their contributions to America," Daniel Garza, president of the Koch group, The LIBRE Initiative, said in a statement.

"That said, we cannot support arbitrary cuts to future legal immigration levels. We welcome a debate about whether our current legal immigration policy properly balances family and skills-based migration. But that broad debate should not distract from the immediate goal of providing certainty to Dreamers and enhancing security," Garza added.
:noooo but but all the cool countries!!

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13589 on: January 27, 2018, 08:29:42 PM »
Quote
The Koch Brothers are launching a pilot program to help prisoners reintegrate back into society.

Alongside the Texas Public Policy Foundation, the Koch network is pouring $4 million into Safe Streets and Second Chances—an initiative that will study criminal rehabilitation programs in Texas, Louisiana, Florida and Pennsylvania. Each state will receive $1 million in funding for a trial experiment on 1,000 prisoners intended to prepare them for the workforce.

“Over 95 percent of people who are incarcerated will eventually be released, so it’s in everyone’s best interests to make sure that these individuals are better when they leave prison than before they went in,” Koch Industries executive Mark Holden said in a statement.

In addition to job training, prisoners will receive counseling and treatment for drug addiction.
holy shit, these bastards, does Jeff Sessions know about this?!?

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13590 on: January 27, 2018, 08:43:46 PM »
You do realize that you're spinning off of the main point stated at the very start of my reply.

Also, the russian bots (which we should have verified independently if we have not) were also tweeting both sides of #BLM back and forth, creating their own fights.

This is trolling, but its also the same divisive stuff that's been going on for decades. From the USSR times. It's not new. It might be some trolls with bots or it might be the same old shit. Even the Bloomberg article that guy cites calls the usage as "creating discord".

The rest of your post isn’t really based on anything. It’s just dissembling that you think it’s “fake news” without any concrete evidence to argue about.

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13591 on: January 27, 2018, 08:47:26 PM »
Quote
The Koch Brothers are launching a pilot program to help prisoners reintegrate back into society.

Alongside the Texas Public Policy Foundation, the Koch network is pouring $4 million into Safe Streets and Second Chances—an initiative that will study criminal rehabilitation programs in Texas, Louisiana, Florida and Pennsylvania. Each state will receive $1 million in funding for a trial experiment on 1,000 prisoners intended to prepare them for the workforce.

“Over 95 percent of people who are incarcerated will eventually be released, so it’s in everyone’s best interests to make sure that these individuals are better when they leave prison than before they went in,” Koch Industries executive Mark Holden said in a statement.

In addition to job training, prisoners will receive counseling and treatment for drug addiction.
holy shit, these bastards, does Jeff Sessions know about this?!?

This shouldn’t really be surprising to anybody... but Koch’s actually are pretty good on prisoner reform and felons rights issues. One of the few things I agree with them on.

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13592 on: January 27, 2018, 08:48:46 PM »
Quote
The Koch Brothers are launching a pilot program to help prisoners reintegrate back into society.

Alongside the Texas Public Policy Foundation, the Koch network is pouring $4 million into Safe Streets and Second Chances—an initiative that will study criminal rehabilitation programs in Texas, Louisiana, Florida and Pennsylvania. Each state will receive $1 million in funding for a trial experiment on 1,000 prisoners intended to prepare them for the workforce.

“Over 95 percent of people who are incarcerated will eventually be released, so it’s in everyone’s best interests to make sure that these individuals are better when they leave prison than before they went in,” Koch Industries executive Mark Holden said in a statement.

In addition to job training, prisoners will receive counseling and treatment for drug addiction.
holy shit, these bastards, does Jeff Sessions know about this?!?

This shouldn’t really be surprising to anybody... but Koch’s actually are pretty good on prisoner reform and felons rights issues. One of the few things I agree with them on.

They're also surprisingly not that racist.

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13593 on: January 27, 2018, 09:07:51 PM »
As for the Russian bots amplifying trump and amplifying Wikileaks, there are lots of things in this whole Russian interference that could be coincidence, taken individually, but I feel like you have to really stretch credibility to say it was coincidence when you see it all added up.

Like theoretically, I guess it’s possible that Trump hires a campaign manager who worked for free thst has ties to Putin, and that the Russian Government hacked the DNC and shortly after set up a meeting with Trump with the promise of sensitive government information to help with the election, then Instead of promising to share the hacked emails, instead shared a garbage dossier with no real information.

Similarly, it’s possible that Wikileaks actually got the DNC emails from somebody else other than russia, who was simultaneously hacking the DNC. It could also be coincidence that Russia is offering Trump assistance in the campaign, and then also retweeting Wikileaks while Wikileaks is also offering  trump campaign advice, and simultaneously Wikileaks is not talking to Russia at all.

It’s also theoretically possible that everybody associated with the Trump campaign chose to lie about meetings with Russia, even though they did nothing improper.

All of these things are possible, but it’s not the simplest explanation by a long shot.

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13594 on: January 27, 2018, 09:17:52 PM »
no no no, when you talk about coincidences you're supposed to quote this as the final part


Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13595 on: January 28, 2018, 01:26:16 AM »
As for the Russian bots amplifying trump and amplifying Wikileaks, there are lots of things in this whole Russian interference that could be coincidence, taken individually, but I feel like you have to really stretch credibility to say it was coincidence when you see it all added up.

Like theoretically, I guess it’s possible that Trump hires a campaign manager who worked for free thst has ties to Putin, and that the Russian Government hacked the DNC and shortly after set up a meeting with Trump with the promise of sensitive government information to help with the election, then Instead of promising to share the hacked emails, instead shared a garbage dossier with no real information.

Similarly, it’s possible that Wikileaks actually got the DNC emails from somebody else other than russia, who was simultaneously hacking the DNC. It could also be coincidence that Russia is offering Trump assistance in the campaign, and then also retweeting Wikileaks while Wikileaks is also offering  trump campaign advice, and simultaneously Wikileaks is not talking to Russia at all.

It’s also theoretically possible that everybody associated with the Trump campaign chose to lie about meetings with Russia, even though they did nothing improper.

All of these things are possible, but it’s not the simplest explanation by a long shot.


There is an interesting phenomena that occurs with humans in how we can often find ourselves deriving strongly held opinions.

Cognitive scientists and behavioral economists have done a lot of studies that confirm basically this same underlying thing. For instance, to distill it down, if you take a person that either has a neutral position or an opposite position on a two-sided issue, and you ask that person to make an argument for one side(in the case of the neutral participant) or the opposite(in the case of the already biased person), the more they engage in arguing for that side, the more they will come to actually believe in it. What is even more crazy, if another person comes in and challenges that person on the argument they are defending, even with overwhelming empirical evidence, it basically calcifies the argued position into the arguer even more.

There are a lot of varying explanations about why this happens, but we know that it does. Overwhelmingly so in study after study. It basically exposes how the very act of arguing a position creates a long-term path dependency that biases and increasingly calcifies a person's favoritism toward that bias.  It's one explanation for why a society may have so many climate change denialists and creationists that are incapable of being persuaded no matter how convincing the persuader is. No matter how overwhelming the empirical facts become. Because they were pushed down a certain path at the beginning, or took on a certain position initially, and because of that initial indoctrination(self induced or influenced), it becomes almost impossible to change that without intense self skepticism. Which most people will not engage in.

That is basically etiolate. He jumped in on one side of the argument, and despite literally every single piece of evidence he previously cited going belly up, a narrative on ground as shaky as creationism, he still clings to that narrative.

Before he put me on ignore, he basically inadvertently admitted to this happening to him, when he inferred that he essentially is at the point where he takes it on faith that the Seth Rich thing will pan out for him. Despite the entire Fox News story, and the waves of evidence to the contrary, tearing that narrative apart in spectacular fashion.

My point is, I would just keep that in mind, because at least by doing so you can be entertained while he engages in an ever intensifying game of self-delusion as the evidence against him piles up. As he puts more and more people on ignore that trigger him. Under the illusion that is is them that are intellectually lacking.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 01:30:36 AM by Nola »

team filler

  • filler
  • filler
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13596 on: January 28, 2018, 01:33:53 AM »
I was with you until you brought Godtiolate into this.
*****


team filler

  • filler
  • filler
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13598 on: January 28, 2018, 01:58:05 AM »
 :lol
*****

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13599 on: January 28, 2018, 02:41:16 AM »
quite frankly, i don't believe slaves should be counted at all for apportionment purposes, no matter what CNN thinks

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13600 on: January 28, 2018, 02:43:43 AM »
quite frankly, i don't believe slaves should be counted at all for apportionment purposes, no matter what CNN thinks

How about a compromise?

3/5 sound good?  :doge

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13601 on: January 28, 2018, 03:04:42 AM »
ha! never!

this "union" is just a monarchical plot to create big government to transfer wealth to the upper class, give the south the power to enforce slavery on the rest of us and enthrone an unchecked executive to endlessly involve us in foreign wars!

shosta

  • Y = λ𝑓. (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥)) (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥))
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13602 on: January 28, 2018, 04:09:37 AM »
Before he put me on ignore, he basically inadvertently admitted to this happening to him, when he inferred that he essentially is at the point where he takes it on faith that the Seth Rich thing will pan out for him. Despite the entire Fox News story, and the waves of evidence to the contrary, tearing that narrative apart in spectacular fashion.
This hilarious game of intellectual sadism aside, I want to say that an important part of communicating with people is giving them the opportunity to save face instead of trying to own them into the dirt. I think if people just got off etiolate's ass about it, he'll just come to accept the truth, even if he'll never admit it, and nobody has to win their internet points for the day, we can all just be nice to each other.

And for those of you who will say that he's hardly a nice person himself, I think he's a brawler type like Trump is. He digs in and punches back at anyone who throws one first, even if it's over something stupid. Just my thoughts for the day. Carepost?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
每天生气

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13603 on: January 28, 2018, 04:13:11 AM »
This hilarious game of intellectual sadism aside, I want to say that an important part of communicating with people is giving them the opportunity to save face instead of trying to own them into the dirt.

Counterpoint: Christopher Hitchens is bad and liking him makes you bad.

shosta

  • Y = λ𝑓. (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥)) (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥))
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13604 on: January 28, 2018, 04:31:36 AM »
Christopher Hitchens is like the only person I like anymore, besides Keith Olbermann.
每天生气

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13605 on: January 28, 2018, 12:50:19 PM »
There is no truth to admit to. Talking about behavioral science while sitting in your confirmation bias. :lol fucking clowns

If you think Russia trying to mess with the USA during election time is new or remarkable? You're naive.
If you believe deep state claims without evidence? You're a schmuck.

Proof. Proof that the public can verify. Remember, you're trying to prove collusion that got Trump elected. You've probably lost track of that along the whole roller coaster ride.

agrajag

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13606 on: January 28, 2018, 01:31:47 PM »
Remember, you're trying to prove collusion that got Trump elected.

False.

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13607 on: January 28, 2018, 01:41:46 PM »
There is no truth to admit to. Talking about behavioral science while sitting in your confirmation bias. :lol fucking clowns

If you think Russia trying to mess with the USA during election time is new or remarkable? You're naive.
If you believe deep state claims without evidence? You're a schmuck.

Proof. Proof that the public can verify. Remember, you're trying to prove collusion that got Trump elected. You've probably lost track of that along the whole roller coaster ride.

Should’ve added  “wake up sheeple” to the end.

That said, I think that trying to talk about proving “collusion” is a dead end that gives away that the person saying it has set a standard so high it will probsbly never be met. I see it in Benji, Shosta, and Etiolate that their standard of “proof” is something akin to a recorded meeting where trump and Putin get together and say “I’ll help you win the election if you drop sanctions” or something like that.

With the possible exception of trump being a complete moron, I can almost guarantee that no conversation like this ever occurred. So if that is your standard,you are probably correct, but you should also state that so the rest of us can realize that you have set an almost impossibly high bar of proof.

That said, even if that didn’t occur, it doesn’t mean there wasn’t a crime committed. I think you could make a pretty damn good case that there were campaign finance violations, misprision of a felony, and a conspiracy to conceal both just from reading Donald Jrs. Emails and knowing that Russia hacked the DNC.

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13608 on: January 28, 2018, 01:52:01 PM »
The press and you guys are the ones that set collusion as a standard. :lol


Remember that collusion was the word the media used. That was the scare word from the very start.

Tasty

  • Senior Member

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13610 on: January 28, 2018, 03:25:56 PM »
The press and you guys are the ones that set collusion as a standard. :lol


Remember that collusion was the word the media used. That was the scare word from the very start.

This is a world where dumb trump motherfuckers say shit like “he didn’t obstruct justice because he never told Comey to lay off Flynn, he just asked him if he would”...

But I would argue that if the Russian government contacts the trump campaign, and then says “hey doodz we have Hillary dirt” and the trump campaign replies “cool beans! Love to see it later this summer, but don’t tell anyone”

That is collusion by the dictionary definition on its own:

Quote
col·lu·sion
kəˈlo͞oZHən/Submit
noun
secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others.
"the armed forces were working in collusion with drug traffickers"

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13611 on: January 28, 2018, 03:57:04 PM »
You're lacking a grand conspiracy, and the intent to cheat or deceive others.

I will say this about "collusion", it was chosen for its malleability. As a word choice, it has the ability to wander from vague idea to legalese. Behind the word usage is the idea that the Americans were cheated by the Russians working with Trump to give him the election. That's the calming, "we didn't really elect Trump" mentality it appeals to people with. Around that idea, you can stir up a bunch of smoke and fear.

I advise you to set your standard for "proof" to be actual proof. Not the smoke, fear and shell game antics that have been going on for months. Considering how many people in government have gotten away with crimes and violating the constitution, violated the people and the world by starting wars for profit and gotten cleanly away with it? And this is with actual evidence of this wrongdoing? You should realize that to take out Trump that you need real proof and if you take him out without that, you will plant the seeds for civil war. (Which, if you understood the aim of divisive propaganda, would be the actual goal of foreign governments.)

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13612 on: January 28, 2018, 04:21:00 PM »
Dude, grand conspiracy has no meaning apart from regular conspiracy.

Using or soliciting DNC emails hacked illegally by another country is cheating in an election, yes or no?

If what you call our fevered dream of a story is true, Russia hacked the DNC then offered those emails to the Fonald Trump campaign, and the Donald trump campaign said “great thanks for the help, we love it!”do you think that is “cheating” in the election?

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13613 on: January 28, 2018, 04:22:41 PM »
As for Donald trump getting impeached, I don’t really care either way.

He’s an incredibly unpopular ineffective president, that will likely be dealing with a split congress in a year. If they impeach him great, if not he’ll lose in 2020.

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13614 on: January 28, 2018, 04:36:58 PM »
et, you still banking on that Malia Zimmerman story panning out?

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13615 on: January 28, 2018, 04:37:43 PM »
Before he put me on ignore, he basically inadvertently admitted to this happening to him, when he inferred that he essentially is at the point where he takes it on faith that the Seth Rich thing will pan out for him. Despite the entire Fox News story, and the waves of evidence to the contrary, tearing that narrative apart in spectacular fashion.
This hilarious game of intellectual sadism aside, I want to say that an important part of communicating with people is giving them the opportunity to save face instead of trying to own them into the dirt. I think if people just got off etiolate's ass about it, he'll just come to accept the truth, even if he'll never admit it, and nobody has to win their internet points for the day, we can all just be nice to each other.

And for those of you who will say that he's hardly a nice person himself, I think he's a brawler type like Trump is. He digs in and punches back at anyone who throws one first, even if it's over something stupid. Just my thoughts for the day. Carepost?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

To be fair, that olive branch has been offered up to etiolate on multiple occasions, for months. And every time he smacks it away, often with unprovoked and crass insults toward the person he is speaking with. Which is ironic given the situation he finds himself in defending conspiracies that fall apart on him time and again. People have actually made a number of good faith efforts(with pretty minimal snark, including right now) to lay out for him the weakness of his case and the ever strengthening evidence affirming the currently held consensus of Kremlin origin with regards to the 2016 hacks. However, as expected, he just digs in further, like is happening now. Getting increasingly hostile as any conversation goes on.

I've told him before, I don't hate him. The guy likes Boogie more than most actual Pelicans fans I know, that's decent people in my book. I think a lot of his opinions in the political realm are fucking moronic because whatever happened to him along his development path politically on certain issues, it has led him down a road of putting irrational faith into things like 4chan rumors, conveniently timed Fox News conspiracies, and conspiracy level simple narratives about complex topics, often to great comical effect.





shosta

  • Y = λ𝑓. (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥)) (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥))
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13616 on: January 28, 2018, 04:45:08 PM »
The guy likes Boogie more than most actual Pelicans fans I know, that's decent people in my book.
It's because he's a sac native. We all felt really betrayed when he got traded. Boogie was the only good thing to happen to our team in a long time and mismanagement proved they could snatch defeat from the jaws of hope.
每天生气

Nintex

  • Finish the Fight
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13617 on: January 28, 2018, 05:42:52 PM »
The Atlantic wrote a substantial piece on Manafort that is... quite something.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/paul-manafort-american-hustler/550925/

In my view Trump's friends were in way over their heads, knew they were walking timebombs (Manafort/Flynn etc.) but figured that he couldn't win anyway so they might as well join along for the ride to get something out of it for themselves. Influence in the party, maybe sell a book or two. Note how a few of them like Rudy have dropped completely off the planet since he took office. This was never how they thought it would play out.

Neither did the people who ran against Trump. Team Clinton thought that the Access Hollywood tape would do him in, and honestly it did. In fact the Clinton people like Podesta were so confident that hey were already planning the new cabinet and trying to get the best positions. The somewhat sensible folks still with Trump ran for the hills at that point, while only the true believers and those in it for themselves were left behind. And honestly I think that the Russians never meant for Trump to be elected either. That they just wanted to weaken the Clinton presidency as they had weakened US intelligence operations through Wikileaks. I honestly think that the Russians were trying to figure out what's what with the Trump campaign people. Like would this guy really go to Iraq again and take the oil, or kill are the terrorists and their families (some of which living in Russia). Imagine if in Russia a retired circus clown ran for office telling people he'd build a wall along the Chinese border, finish the job in Georgia and nuke Ukraine. US intelligence would at least try to ascertain just what this clown is talking about.

The Democrats and news media are trying to make us believe that Vladimir Putin himself selected Trump to be the lynch pin of an elaborate scheme to elect a puppet leader in the US.
They want to make us believe that the Russians bet on Trump as early as 2015 (or perhaps even earlier) to take on Hillary Clinton in the general election.
Either Putin has build a time machine or they've lost their minds.
🤴

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13618 on: January 28, 2018, 05:55:04 PM »
et, you still banking on that Malia Zimmerman story panning out?

You mean the Sy Hersh and Assange story?

Hey, instead of being a coward, how about you make a claim or two? Do you think Wikileaks is a Russian lackey?

Nintex

  • Finish the Fight
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13619 on: January 28, 2018, 06:17:57 PM »
et, you still banking on that Malia Zimmerman story panning out?

You mean the Sy Hersh and Assange story?

Hey, instead of being a coward, how about you make a claim or two? Do you think Wikileaks is a Russian lackey?
At some point I had Wikileaks and Russia Today on Twitter and I couldn't distinguish between the two.

The fact that Assange had Russian security guarding him and arranged for Snowden to be picked up by the FSB in Moscow might've rang a few bells as well.
🤴