Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 7217143 times)

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41700 on: September 24, 2019, 10:00:42 AM »
Dunno about you guys but when I think of political activism I think of rationalguys in lab coats dryly reading off factoids to a bunch of very interested congresspeople, half of who aren't bought off by the industries in question. Using invective to shame politicians or incite mass action has never worked, only facts and logic and bar graphs will do the trick.

I think facts would have done some good, but to each his own.


TakingBackSunday

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41701 on: September 24, 2019, 10:17:56 AM »
There have been literal decades of facts being publicized and given a national platform (Inconvenient Truth, hello?).  Politicians didn't give a shit.
püp

Brehvolution

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41702 on: September 24, 2019, 10:24:48 AM »
It's not just US scientists either.

The reason rightist politicians cast doubt or deny is because if they admit they were wrong, there will be punitive efforts against the offending industries that line their pockets. So they are going to stave that off for as long as possible.
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CatsCatsCats

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41703 on: September 24, 2019, 10:30:11 AM »
There are plenty of scientists speaking about it, and they don't move the needle one bit.

This. Her literal message is “listen to the scientists”

Brehvolution

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41704 on: September 24, 2019, 10:38:26 AM »
©ZH


Occam

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41706 on: September 24, 2019, 11:47:12 AM »
(Image removed from quote.)

How many Americans died in the Vietnam War? One too few.
504

Occam

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41707 on: September 24, 2019, 12:09:20 PM »
You... know he didn't fight in Vietnam right? :doge

Yes. That's the joke.
504

VomKriege

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41708 on: September 24, 2019, 12:18:54 PM »
What's with that weird pattern of sending Giulani out to run completely incoherent, uncoordinated exonerations ?
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BIONIC

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41709 on: September 24, 2019, 12:45:23 PM »
Dunno about you guys but when I think of political activism I think of rationalguys in lab coats dryly reading off factoids to a bunch of very interested congresspeople, half of who aren't bought off by the industries in question. Using invective to shame politicians or incite mass action has never worked, only facts and logic and bar graphs will do the trick.

Literal toddlers being gunned down didn't move the needle on gun laws, but I’m sure an over dramatic Swedish teenager speaking to the UN will get Congress to do something on climate change :aweshum
Margs

Joe Molotov

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41710 on: September 24, 2019, 12:49:30 PM »
Dunno about you guys but when I think of political activism I think of rationalguys in lab coats dryly reading off factoids to a bunch of very interested congresspeople, half of who aren't bought off by the industries in question. Using invective to shame politicians or incite mass action has never worked, only facts and logic and bar graphs will do the trick.

Literal toddlers being gunned down didn't move the needle on gun laws, but I’m sure an over dramatic Swedish teenager speaking to the UN will get Congress to do something on climate change :aweshum

Did you see that movie made by Chuck Norris' son where the UN invades America to take away our guns?? Chilling.
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Boredfrom

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41711 on: September 24, 2019, 01:00:43 PM »
Dumb kids are dumb. She is still doing something better than most people criticizing and sure as hell she doesn’t deserve to be mocked by crybaby Cheeto. She is still a dumbass kid that is going to get undermined by her hyperbole.

Joe Molotov

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41712 on: September 24, 2019, 01:04:20 PM »
Dumb kids are dumb. She is still doing something better than most people criticizing and sure as hell she doesn’t deserve to be mocked by crybaby Cheeto. She is still a dumbass kid that is going to get undermined by her hyperbole.

Undermined in what way? Evilore pulls Neogaf out of the Paris Accords?
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kingv

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41713 on: September 24, 2019, 01:07:11 PM »
I think here hearts in the right place, and there’s nothing “wrong” with what she’s doing.

But at the same time, you’re kidding yourself if you think that this will make a difference either. It won’t. The only thing that will make a difference is for the boomers to die off enough for younger generations that actually believe in climate change to take over the political process.

If you wAnt to make a difference, kill your parents.

Boredfrom

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41714 on: September 24, 2019, 01:10:46 PM »
Dumb kids are dumb. She is still doing something better than most people criticizing and sure as hell she doesn’t deserve to be mocked by crybaby Cheeto. She is still a dumbass kid that is going to get undermined by her hyperbole.

Undermined in what way? Evilore pulls Neogaf out of the Paris Accords?

Sure as hell I was rolling my eyes yesterday by “you ruined my hopes and my childhood” quote. Otherwise I was thinking “is nice she wants to change things”.

Nintex

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41715 on: September 24, 2019, 01:18:30 PM »
The more the left Reeeee's the more they ensure Trump will win another election.

They learned absolutely nothing from 2016.
🤴

Mandark

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41716 on: September 24, 2019, 01:19:12 PM »
The country has obviously become more liberal in terms of civil rights, but there hasn’t been a combination of President and Congress in 40 years that supported expanding the social net except for a small slice of time from 2009-2011, and they did it in the most neoliberal way possible. In that sense, we almost certainly have more right wing political policies in practice, if not in spirit.

First problem with using the Great Society as a comparison point is that it was also a blip. It's preceded by ~25 years of the conservative coalition dominating Congress and followed by a 24 years with either a Republican or Jimmy Carter in the White House. It also coincided with the Vietnam War, so bringing up this idea specifically in the context of foreign policy like Occam did is a bit silly.

Also I get the impression people think there was a robust safety net which got rolled back in the Reagan/Bush/Clinton years which mostly isn't the case. The ACA, CHIP, and even Medicare Part D were all addressing holes in the coverage of Medicare and Medicaid that had been there since the start.

Boredfrom

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41717 on: September 24, 2019, 01:19:45 PM »
The more the left Reeeee's the more they ensure Trump will win another election.

They learned absolutely nothing from 2016.

 :doge

Now that is jumping the gun. What does that girl has to do with US elections?

Mandark

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41718 on: September 24, 2019, 01:21:15 PM »
If someone thinks the success of the gun lobby isn't evidence in favor of an emotional approach to politics, I'd encourage them to read any of Cindi's posts.

Boredfrom

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41719 on: September 24, 2019, 01:24:35 PM »
If someone thinks the success of the gun lobby isn't evidence in favor of an emotional approach to politics, I'd encourage them to read any of Cindi's posts.

In that regard, it also give us Trump, so...

 :-\


Nintex

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41721 on: September 24, 2019, 01:32:15 PM »
Another coup under way
https://twitter.com/brianstelter/status/1176544600372273152

bombshell
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🤴

Mandark

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41722 on: September 24, 2019, 01:58:31 PM »
Nintex is using the "I didn't want to vote for Trump, but those radical left antifa/BLM/david hoggies need to be stopped" line, that left activists fuel the conservative right by giving them a target. I have no doubt that some centrist brain geniuses see college kids yelling at professors on youtube and that gets them mad enough to go full fascist, but it's a line of argument that sees ideological struggle as the primary driver of political direction. And just assumes that these people wouldn't just vote Trump after the primaries anyway. Because we all know Republican voters love to swing to the other side.

Basically, Nintex is a fucking dipshit,

Lib activists do anything to bring attention to an issue: "they learned nothing, this will make people vote for Trump!"

Trump sharts himself on twitter: "he changed the narrative so now nobody is talking about climate or guns anymore, what a genius!"

kingv

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41723 on: September 24, 2019, 02:07:45 PM »
The country has obviously become more liberal in terms of civil rights, but there hasn’t been a combination of President and Congress in 40 years that supported expanding the social net except for a small slice of time from 2009-2011, and they did it in the most neoliberal way possible. In that sense, we almost certainly have more right wing political policies in practice, if not in spirit.

First problem with using the Great Society as a comparison point is that it was also a blip. It's preceded by ~25 years of the conservative coalition dominating Congress and followed by a 24 years with either a Republican or Jimmy Carter in the White House. It also coincided with the Vietnam War, so bringing up this idea specifically in the context of foreign policy like Occam did is a bit silly.

Also I get the impression people think there was a robust safety net which got rolled back in the Reagan/Bush/Clinton years which mostly isn't the case. The ACA, CHIP, and even Medicare Part D were all addressing holes in the coverage of Medicare and Medicaid that had been there since the start.

I meant over that “since the 1930s” as a comparison. It would be hard for me to swallow an argument that we have more progressive government today than the New Deal, economically and in terms of social programs. Obviously, 1930s people were racist by today’s standards and didn’t respect equal rights for women, lgbt, and resetera posters.

I don’t know if I would ever call our safety net “robust” but it’s certainly gotten worse over the years:

Since the 80s:
- introduced taxes on social security benefits
- Welfare “reform” basically ended the welfare program as we knew it
- decline of the defined benefit pension plan for retirement

Maybe not all of those things can be laid at the feet of government, but people are not wrong to think that there is less of a safety net today, at least in some respects.

It would be kind of hard to weigh that against the cost of college, Medicare Part D, or the ACA. It really depends on what sort of support you need

Nintex

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41724 on: September 24, 2019, 02:17:49 PM »
🤴

Brehvolution

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41725 on: September 24, 2019, 02:25:12 PM »
So it won't be declassified and will be redacted when shown behind closed doors.
©ZH

ToxicAdam

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41726 on: September 24, 2019, 02:46:50 PM »
There have been literal decades of facts being publicized and given a national platform (Inconvenient Truth, hello?).  Politicians didn't give a shit.

If Obama had the economy that existed now back in 2008, he would've done something about it. The EPA had/has the power to regulate Co2 and Congress had the numbers to create some kind of bill. They just got cold feet because the recovery took so long and that Tea Party backlash was starting to build.

OnlyRegret

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41727 on: September 24, 2019, 03:25:08 PM »
the real issue is some people care about the environment while other people don't give a shit
telling a bunch of borderline geriatrics that they must inconvenience themselves to make the world 50 years down the line less shit unsurprisingly flops

anthropocentric and no regard for anything other than the self, tragic  :usacry

OnlyRegret

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41728 on: September 24, 2019, 03:28:14 PM »
I like people caring more about the environment, a slightly annoying kid to put up with isn't a steep price to pay for that.
My issue is some of these people are terrible for actually solving problems, see Era and god given right to use AC as much as I want, raising a stink is useful at least



Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41730 on: September 24, 2019, 03:35:56 PM »
Trump is going to release the transcript.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1176559966024556544

Does he think his conversations are classified by default because he can declassify stuff on demand?


There have been literal decades of facts being publicized and given a national platform (Inconvenient Truth, hello?).  Politicians didn't give a shit.

If Obama had the economy that existed now back in 2008, he would've done something about it. The EPA had/has the power to regulate Co2 and Congress had the numbers to create some kind of bill. They just got cold feet because the recovery took so long and that Tea Party backlash was starting to build.

The ARRA was recovery efforts and simultaneously climate change curbing regulations.

FFS all of the shit the trump admin are taking down are actions that were date staged from the ARRA.

VomKriege

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41731 on: September 24, 2019, 03:41:09 PM »
Do we even know for sure the whistleblower complaint Congress looks for is related to that Ukrainian call ? Unless I misunderstood, they're seeking access to the whistleblowing filings and the whistleblower identity so s/he can testify. Releasing the transcript, even if that's what it relates to, doesn't change that.
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benjipwns

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41732 on: September 24, 2019, 03:42:39 PM »
Does he think his conversations are classified by default because he can declassify stuff on demand?
Sorry, the answer to that is CLASSIFIED.

ToxicAdam

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41733 on: September 24, 2019, 04:23:41 PM »


The ARRA was recovery efforts and simultaneously climate change curbing regulations.

FFS all of the shit the trump admin are taking down are actions that were date staged from the ARRA.

??? Are you talking about subsidies for green tech and tax rebates for energy efficient appliances? 

That's not the same as actual regulations of existing industry and capping/taxing of GHG's

Nintex

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41734 on: September 24, 2019, 04:50:26 PM »
https://twitter.com/LizRNC/status/1176596704621211649

We can't beat him so we have to impeach.

 :doge
🤴

benjipwns

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41735 on: September 24, 2019, 04:54:54 PM »
If Obama had the economy that existed now back in 2008, he would've done something about it. The EPA had/has the power to regulate Co2 and Congress had the numbers to create some kind of bill. They just got cold feet because the recovery took so long and that Tea Party backlash was starting to build.
somehow I don't think unilaterally taxing carbon via the powers of the EPA would have gone over well for anyone involved with that decision
It's not unilateral, Congress gave the EPA the power under the Clean Air Act. See Massachusetts v. EPA, also Utility Air Regulatory Group v. EPA where the Court held that the EPA could regulate CO2 if it was already regulating something for air pollution.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also Batman v. Superman where Batman held that "[Superman] has the power to wipe out the entire human race, and if we believe there's even a one percent chance that he is our enemy we have to take it as an absolute certainty."
[close]
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 05:00:00 PM by benjipwns »

Nintex

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41736 on: September 24, 2019, 05:03:19 PM »
Senate including the GOP voted to give the intel comm. access to the whistle blower this friday
Trump is going to release the transcript of the call tomorrow.

Either Trump is overplaying his hand or the Democrats are walking straight into a trap.
🤴

Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41737 on: September 24, 2019, 05:07:02 PM »
Senate including the GOP voted to give the intel comm. access to the whistle blower this friday
Trump is going to release the transcript of the call tomorrow.

Either Trump is overplaying his hand or the Democrats are walking straight into a trap.


Probably both.

Skullfuckers Anonymous

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41738 on: September 24, 2019, 05:15:00 PM »
The misadventures of a crack addict bringing down Trump would be a fitting end for all this.

Nintex

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41739 on: September 24, 2019, 05:17:00 PM »
World leaders at the UN:

United States:  :gun :clap :shaking :trumps :brazilcry :fbm  :usacry
🤴

kingv

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41740 on: September 24, 2019, 05:18:12 PM »
“The call”

I suspect that this is a full transcript of one of the calls, when it’s already been explained that the whistleblower complaint stems from a series of actions taken.

It will just be an incomplete release that will “clear” Trump because even though it heavily implies that he plans to withhold aid until they investigate he doesn’t explicitly say it.

Because that is what the level of intelligent discourse in the media  has come to nowadays.


OnlyRegret

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41742 on: September 24, 2019, 05:26:48 PM »
oh boy, just my favourite source on morality, a group founded by a genocide denier



Nintex

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41744 on: September 24, 2019, 05:51:59 PM »
The Democrat clowns have no chance against the Trump PR machine which has all the clips on standby
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1176610391058722816

This level of grift  :lawd

🤴

Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41745 on: September 24, 2019, 06:04:31 PM »
2x matched by whom?

Nintex

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41746 on: September 24, 2019, 06:05:45 PM »
2x matched by whom?
The President of Ukraine

For the new page



Do your duty James
 :salute
🤴


VomKriege

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41748 on: September 24, 2019, 06:10:22 PM »
Quote
To fight back, President Trump is launching the Official Impeachment Defense Task Force. This task force will be made up of only President Trump’s most LOYAL supporters.
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Great Rumbler

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dog

Nintex

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41750 on: September 24, 2019, 06:16:57 PM »
🤴


Occam

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41752 on: September 24, 2019, 06:23:50 PM »
1·Trending
#ImpeachTrump
176K Tweets

2·Trending
#impeachment
Trending with: #ImpeachDonaldTrumpNOW, #ImpeachmentInquiry, #ImpeachmentHearings

4·Trending
#ImpeachTheMF
16.5K Tweets
504

Nintex

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41753 on: September 24, 2019, 06:29:55 PM »
Whatever happens a million souls will cry out in terror and will suddenly be silenced.
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benjipwns

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41754 on: September 24, 2019, 06:30:42 PM »
That can't be real. And if it is, surely it can't be legal.
Not sure about which part you're referring to with "legal" but in the case of impeachment the defense is not provided with counsel in the same way that the prosecution (managers) are provided for by Congress and the government. Bill Clinton ran up pretty large legal defense fees in the course of his impeachment and it was paid for mostly by private donations. Hillary's much mocked claim about their being "broke" upon leaving the White House was technically true in terms of they had large legal debts remaining that had yet to be settled, although these were taken care of by Democratic bigwigs/Clinton supporters and the Clintons were becoming multimillionaires at that point as well.

The White House Counsel positions are a bit nebulous when it comes to how to defend the President in personal matters, usually everyone errs on the side of caution and divides things. As Trump here would be theoretically impeached purely for actions while in office he likely would be able to lean on White House resources more than Clinton was, as Clinton's legal case stemmed from a private sexual harassment lawsuit that got folded into an independent counsel investigation. IIRC, Clinton's White House Counsel oversaw the defense in the cases as that's partially in the job description and to provide a single strategy to the process, but the actual grunt work was mostly private attorneys hired by Clinton outside of his position as President.


Joe Molotov

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Brehvolution

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41757 on: September 24, 2019, 09:17:52 PM »
Senate including the GOP voted to give the intel comm. access to the whistle blower this friday
Trump is going to release the transcript of the call tomorrow.

Either Trump is overplaying his hand or the Democrats are walking straight into a trap.

Yep. Pelosi waited all this time just to blindly rush into it.  ::)
©ZH

benjipwns

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| Trump sells the US to Ukraine to own the libs
« Reply #41758 on: September 24, 2019, 09:52:36 PM »
https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1176542253386534915

 :rofl "I didn't know what the winking was, cause I thought maybe there was something like a conspiracy thing going on there"


benjipwns

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