Black Panther and embracing its message

[Himu]

I’m not a perfect person and I never claimed to be. You never cared about Christianity to begin with. I definitely lack patience with people I don’t like. And I do not like you or Stro and I will not hide that.

[Himu]

Nice come back. Did you post it in your wrestling shack? Nothing wrong with watching wrestling. But having your own shack as you jack off to your wrestling collection is another thing entirely. Which is exactly why you’re the ass hole you are.

[Himu]

Here we have a dip shit who calls out someone named Cindi Mayweather about liking music exposing how much of anretard you are.

Google the name Cindi Mayweather. Oh wow. It’s a character a singer came up with. Oh you know that I’m a big music fan but you’re some nobody with a character gimmick who plopped into this forum one year ago who doesn’t know jack shit about me or this place.

You are pathetic

[Steve Contra]

Hey guys what's up in here I really liked Michael B. Jordan's hair/mustache in BP

[TEEEPO]

black panther sucked

[Cerveza mas fina]

I didnt watch black panther because there were no relatable characters

[agrajag]

I didnt watch black panther because there were no relatable characters

there was the white cia agent dude

[Cerveza mas fina]

But he is anglo saxon pale

[Huff]

Im just bored of marvel/super hero movies

[Himu]

What do you think are examples of great art? Surely you don't consider Black Panther such? Because I don't see any great work of American art as a poster child for capitalism. On the contrary, the less financial considerations are a part of the equation, the less burdened it is from profitability, the greater art becomes.

Personal gain can be just as suffocating to art as "being part of a collective." When you start figuring profits, target demographics and focus groups in art, it becomes by the numbers.

For every anecdote you bring up, there are counters. Take a look at the Soviet animation studios vs US in the 20th century. US animation was targeted mostly towards children, it was cookie cutter, with big studios like Disney and WB churning out cookie cutter animations with reused frames and characters and cheap serialized shows for easy consumption.Whereas Soviet animation wasn't always easily digestible, often abstract, tackled all sort of adult themes, even philosophy and they all had unique and inventive art styles. Not always pleasing, mind you, but creative.

In the Renaissance period, people made great pieces of art, such as paintings and cathedrals, commissioned by feudal lords. I would hesitate to give credit to monarchies for being nurturing of art. People will find a way to express themselves despite the constraints that society places upon them. And great modern artists make indie films or music, or paintings, or sculptures despite capitalist society's pressure to make a quick buck. So giving capitalism credit for an environment that fosters art is a strained comparison.

If you are such an individualist, give the individuals credit for their art, not economic structures.

That’s a good argument. I was wrong and 12337 was right in that what I said was half baked. Any excuse to shit on socialism I guess.

Nice come back. Did you post it in your wrestling shack? Nothing wrong with watching wrestling. But having your own shack as you jack off to your wrestling collection is another thing entirely. Which is exactly why you’re the ass hole you are.

Uh...what? lmao. It's been 2 days you've been back and you're already into assimilate-tier nonsense personal insults that don't even make sense. If anything I think jerking off to wrestling would be seen as a more valid reason to watch it as opposed to enjoying it for the entertainment/performance aspect 

Google the name Cindi Mayweather yet distinguished mentally-challenged fellow?

[Yeti]

Hey guys what's up in here I really liked Michael B. Jordan's hair/mustache in BP

Did you know that Killmonger’s outfit resembles Vegeta’s armor because Michael B Jordan is a huge fan of Dragonball Z?

That is art

[agrajag]

Cindi, I think some parameters need to be set. In reality, there are only two-three people on this forum that self-identify as full-blown socialists (I guess Kara, curly, and Opti lol). The rest of us see benefits in moving society closer towards equality. Is that a bad thing?

[Himu]

Cindi, I think some parameters need to be set. In reality, there are only two-three people on this forum that self-identify as full-blown socialists (I guess Kara, curly, and Opti lol). The rest of us see benefits in moving society closer towards equality. Is that a bad thing?

Kara is a communist. Shapghnam is too I think.

Not a bad thing. I want the same thing. But what about the methods? But if you think dictating speech laws via forcing people to use trans peoples pronouns counts, or affirmative action which has been shown to hurt some minorities (namely Asians) in the name of equality then is it really equality? So how do you plan on enacting this equality? Does it mean punching Nazi’s unprovoked? Or does it mean allowing illegal immigrants the ability to vote?

[Himu]

I was chill until lager and stro shat up this thread and made me want to put them an rnc

[agrajag]

Well, I don't consider myself a socialist, but I think there is much benefit in nudging this country to the left. What I believe in is that healthcare is a human right, education shouldn't be driven by profits and that greedy corporate monsters shouldn't be allowed to leave our successors an environmental disaster. I believe people have a right to clean air, access to clean water, I believe in free speech and ability to criticise one's own government. Everyone has their own pet issues, more or less. Trying to wittle down leftist ideas to "punching nazis" or immigration is not helpful.

[HardcoreRetro]

*Turns on the Stro and Lager signal*

*Hides in the bushes waiting for the shitshow to unfold*

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm also a dirty commie, but don't tell.

[close]

[HardcoreRetro]

I hope Cindi still lurked so she got to see the Holodomor meltdown.

[agrajag]

I hope Cindi still lurked so she got to see the Holodomor meltdown.

I don't know if she would approve of et's methods (didn't she account suicide on gaf by posting porn though, or am I thinking of someone else) but based on this thread, she would agree with his crusade against Marxism.

[CatsCatsCats]

I made a topic to just say hi because I didn’t want to clog up some other conversation but it got deleted for some reason I guess? I see Bork is active lol..

Anyway, good to see you around, Cindi, and I hope you are doing well

[Himu]

Well, I don't consider myself a socialist, but I think there is much benefit in nudging this country to the left. What I believe in is that healthcare is a human right, education shouldn't be driven by profits and that greedy corporate monsters shouldn't be allowed to leave our successors an environmental disaster. I believe people have a right to clean air, access to clean water, I believe in free speech and ability to criticise one's own government. Everyone has their own pet issues, more or less. Trying to wittle down leftist ideas to "punching nazis" or immigration is not helpful.

I think healthcare is also a right.

I do not attribute access to good education as a value of the left but I agree it shouldn’t be tied to greed and profit.
 
The modern left devalues free speech to the point of mocking it (freeze peach). It is not a value of the left. It should be given the history of what being liberal means. But these days the left is more concerned with limiting speech and censoring their enemies.

I haven’t wittied the left down to illegal immigration and punching Nazi’s but to say they’re not relevant is disengenous given to me the left represents an authoritarianism mindset.

[Coax]

What if you're neither socialist nor capitalist but somewhere in between...

Like a centerfold

[Nola]

Cindi, I think some parameters need to be set. In reality, there are only two-three people on this forum that self-identify as full-blown socialists (I guess Kara, curly, and Opti lol). The rest of us see benefits in moving society closer towards equality. Is that a bad thing?

Kara is a communist. Shapghnam is too I think.

Not a bad thing. I want the same thing. But what about the methods? But if you think dictating speech laws via forcing people to use trans peoples pronouns counts, or affirmative action which has been shown to hurt some minorities (namely Asians) in the name of equality then is it really equality? So how do you plan on enacting this equality? Does it mean punching Nazi’s unprovoked? Or does it mean allowing illegal immigrants the ability to vote?

If certain Affirmative Action measures are having unintended consequences of hurting asians(and I would challenge this assertion if it is repeating oft cited anti-civil rights arguments) than that is an argument to correct the problem, not evidence that the whole thing is wrong and to throw the entire concept out on its ass.

Like I don’t really see why a scholarship program and accompying high school programs to encourage women to join STEM programs should be thrown out because Harvard’s admission criteria may have been biased and tilted in a way that has historically disadvantaged Asians on some criteria.

[Nola]

Well, I don't consider myself a socialist, but I think there is much benefit in nudging this country to the left. What I believe in is that healthcare is a human right, education shouldn't be driven by profits and that greedy corporate monsters shouldn't be allowed to leave our successors an environmental disaster. I believe people have a right to clean air, access to clean water, I believe in free speech and ability to criticise one's own government. Everyone has their own pet issues, more or less. Trying to wittle down leftist ideas to "punching nazis" or immigration is not helpful.

I think healthcare is also a right.

I do not attribute access to good education as a value of the left but I agree it shouldn’t be tied to greed and profit.
 
The modern left devalues free speech to the point of mocking it (freeze peach). It is not a value of the left. It should be given the history of what being liberal means. But these days the left is more concerned with limiting speech and censoring their enemies.

I haven’t wittied the left down to illegal immigration and punching Nazi’s but to say they’re not relevant is disengenous given to me the left represents an authoritarianism mindset.

Meanwhile the party of supposed free speech is cheering on the president for threatening to revoke the security clearances and pensions of former officials that have negative opinions(as is their constitutional right) about him and continuing to mount a highly supported(by the GOP) public pressure campaign to fine players that silently protest police brutality during the national anthem.....Just sayin

[thisismyusername]

Didn't read. lol.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Learned something new.

[close]

[agrajag]

Fucks sake. No one is in support of totalitarian regimes.

You are framing it as

Socialism = totalitarian
Capitalism = liberal

Of course the Soviet regime repressed artists Shosta, I mentioned censure in my post. Yet no one was more repressed than slaves "through the inhuman perseverance of geniuses," that was the f'n point. They didn't create blues music because capitalism enabled them to do so, they were someone's property.

produced under communism is like saying "Didn't black people invent negro spiritual music under slavery?

That's literally the example Cindi uses to make her point about capitalism being great for teh arts. Were you asleep the entire thread?

Btw most of those great artists of days past you mentioned weren't wealthy or of great social stature. The fact that they produced great art was because they were inspired and brilliant human beings, that was my whole point.

Totalitarianism is by definition more restrictive, duh. I'm just not sure why you're making the same mistake as Cindi in equating policies designed to benefit the greatest amount of people to totalitarian regimes.

[agrajag]

Collectivist attitudes toward economics inevitably lead to collectivist attitudes toward culture. I'm not here to weigh in on whatever it is she thinks the word socialist means.

That's literally the example Cindi uses to make her point about capitalism being great for teh arts. Were you asleep the entire thread?

I hadn't read more than three posts. It's a shitty thread, why should I bother?

It's not a zero sum game, as I tried to explain to her, and now have to explain to you. Art is not going to disappear if you give people free education.

[Phoenix Dark]

You didn't say they were the creations of capitalism, true. I'm just disagreeing with the idea that capitalism led to major benefits for the BLACK creators of those genres. Did capitalism help...Howlin Wolf get more shows in the 60s and 70s? Sure. But capitalism also ensured the blues (and rock) were effectively pillaged by white artists who earned far more money off it than the black creators. Not to mention the (white) record label culture vultures who swooped in and bought the rights to a lot of that music.

In terms of these things only being capable in a capitalist society...gonna need evidence of that. Because all those genres were created under the worst possible environment for people (slavery and jim crow). If you can create and enjoy art while slaves, I'm pretty sure you could do the same under a socialist regime. 

Def cuts both ways. Like I said, I don’t think capitalism is perfect. No system is.

I’m conflicted on the claim that all white bands then cribbed from black musicians. Or at least, deliberately stole.

Back in the early rock days they would often play music they just loved. And would almost always, and I could be wrong on this, give credit for where they got that inspiration. There’s exceptions to this of course and certainly your case of racist rockstars (especially of the blues bent) like Clapton.

But I think it’s far too cynical to say that they all deliberately stole from black musicians.

I think Jimi Hendrix throws a wrench into the argument. When jimi first started playing with these bands he recorded and played covers. They all played shit they adored and placed in high esteem. The first night Jimi played with Cream he played Wolf’s Killing Floor. His first major hit was a cover called Hey Joe. All along the Watchtower. These guys liked paying tribute to artists they idolized and often would be open to where they got it from. Even to the point of inviting blues kings to the U.K. to tour to give them viable business. So if they loved Muddy Waters they’d give Muddy a bone and be like,”I got everything I know from Muddy” and have him play.

Even when they didn’t give credit, as Led Zep did with You Shook Me, the song is so dramatically different from the original that the accusation of stealing almost sounds like a stretch.

Did some white musicians steal from black musicians? Certainly. But I think this takes away from artistic process and inspiration. Or else you could say hip hop producers stole from the people they sampled from. Clearly in both cases the musicians were just inspired by the music they heard in their youth.

This is now a music thread.

When did YOU get into the blues? What happened to Mr. “I don’t get jazz?”

I could talk about this shit all day breh.

What is your favorite blues song?

Sorry for the late reply PD. I’m at work as my partner today is being slow af. I have my numbers down because of him and have to work much harder now. Smh.

Not all white bands, but it would be hard to deny that many of the major bands of the time were ripping stuff from black artists. Especially riffs. Not to mention the British Invasion and Elvis. The capitalism argument comes into play here because most of the black innovators were ignored or didn't make much money from what they created. This isn't unique to rock/blues. Hell look at the money EDM "DJs" make off gentrified house music, compared to the black creators (many of whom were gay). Or how faux celeb DJs might get paid to host a party at the same rate as actual DJs like Kid Capri or Jazzy Jeff.

I've always liked jazz music, my issue was moreso I didn't dive into certain areas/subgenres of it initially.

The counter to my argument btw is not just Jimi Hendrix, it's all those blues player. If you go back, it's clear Mick Jagger and all the white rockers revered blues players. Some even helped them tour, got them deals, etc. The white rockers benefited from how our society and economy worked, but I wouldn't call most of them exploitive in the sense that they were racists who fucked over black artists. The system did that. And they benefited from the system. And that system is capitalism.




All those dudes loved Hendrix, BB King, Howlin Wolf etc. And as I said, some of those black artists benefited by gaining new (white fans), whereas black fans had moved on to other genres of music.

[warcock]

this is not the best post because I wrote this under the influence of Benadryl

Pls dont do dis

[Nola]

IDK, reading your statement Shosta and I think you are basically coming down on the side of a lot of the people arguing her despite claiming she is closest to being right.....Or falling down the same hole.

As you also seem to understand, Stalinism/Leninism =/= Socialism. What Cindi is really looking at(or was since she seems to have walked it back a bit) is totalitarianism/authoritarianism vs liberalized and relatively democratic mixed economies. Interestingly she herself has basically inferred to agreeing with where most American democratic socialists see solutions to the same identified problems. There just seems to be a gap in successfully reconciling that.

To me the better argument for Cindi would of been what you(I think) said, that authoritarian/totalitarian/monarchy governments are often(but not always) very stifling toward broad artistic expression. Which is not really a controversial statement. What gets the pushback is trying to mislabel or conflate authoritarian/totalitarian with democratic socialism or more modern Marxism. Then using those few examples to make overstatements like she was doing about art and socialism, when arguably those generalizations don't even apply to the places being incorrectly singled out.

[Himu]

You didn't say they were the creations of capitalism, true. I'm just disagreeing with the idea that capitalism led to major benefits for the BLACK creators of those genres. Did capitalism help...Howlin Wolf get more shows in the 60s and 70s? Sure. But capitalism also ensured the blues (and rock) were effectively pillaged by white artists who earned far more money off it than the black creators. Not to mention the (white) record label culture vultures who swooped in and bought the rights to a lot of that music.

In terms of these things only being capable in a capitalist society...gonna need evidence of that. Because all those genres were created under the worst possible environment for people (slavery and jim crow). If you can create and enjoy art while slaves, I'm pretty sure you could do the same under a socialist regime. 

Def cuts both ways. Like I said, I don’t think capitalism is perfect. No system is.

I’m conflicted on the claim that all white bands then cribbed from black musicians. Or at least, deliberately stole.

Back in the early rock days they would often play music they just loved. And would almost always, and I could be wrong on this, give credit for where they got that inspiration. There’s exceptions to this of course and certainly your case of racist rockstars (especially of the blues bent) like Clapton.

But I think it’s far too cynical to say that they all deliberately stole from black musicians.

I think Jimi Hendrix throws a wrench into the argument. When jimi first started playing with these bands he recorded and played covers. They all played shit they adored and placed in high esteem. The first night Jimi played with Cream he played Wolf’s Killing Floor. His first major hit was a cover called Hey Joe. All along the Watchtower. These guys liked paying tribute to artists they idolized and often would be open to where they got it from. Even to the point of inviting blues kings to the U.K. to tour to give them viable business. So if they loved Muddy Waters they’d give Muddy a bone and be like,”I got everything I know from Muddy” and have him play.

Even when they didn’t give credit, as Led Zep did with You Shook Me, the song is so dramatically different from the original that the accusation of stealing almost sounds like a stretch.

Did some white musicians steal from black musicians? Certainly. But I think this takes away from artistic process and inspiration. Or else you could say hip hop producers stole from the people they sampled from. Clearly in both cases the musicians were just inspired by the music they heard in their youth.

This is now a music thread.

When did YOU get into the blues? What happened to Mr. “I don’t get jazz?”

I could talk about this shit all day breh.

What is your favorite blues song?

Sorry for the late reply PD. I’m at work as my partner today is being slow af. I have my numbers down because of him and have to work much harder now. Smh.

Not all white bands, but it would be hard to deny that many of the major bands of the time were ripping stuff from black artists. Especially riffs. Not to mention the British Invasion and Elvis. The capitalism argument comes into play here because most of the black innovators were ignored or didn't make much money from what they created. This isn't unique to rock/blues. Hell look at the money EDM "DJs" make off gentrified house music, compared to the black creators (many of whom were gay). Or how faux celeb DJs might get paid to host a party at the same rate as actual DJs like Kid Capri or Jazzy Jeff.

I've always liked jazz music, my issue was moreso I didn't dive into certain areas/subgenres of it initially.

The counter to my argument btw is not just Jimi Hendrix, it's all those blues player. If you go back, it's clear Mick Jagger and all the white rockers revered blues players. Some even helped them tour, got them deals, etc. The white rockers benefited from how our society and economy worked, but I wouldn't call most of them exploitive in the sense that they were racists who fucked over black artists. The system did that. And they benefited from the system. And that system is capitalism.




All those dudes loved Hendrix, BB King, Howlin Wolf etc. And as I said, some of those black artists benefited by gaining new (white fans), whereas black fans had moved on to other genres of music.

I still disagree. Yeah. Black artists had their shit sped over and over. But I don’t think it’s fair to call that the fault of capitalism. Like you said, it’s not like the white artists went out to deliberately steal from the black artists. Pretty much all of them like you and I both said tended to lift up their idols and had no qualms about where they got their inspiration. Rolling Stones would point blank say,”we are big fans of BB!”

How is it capitalism’s fault that music was segregated? That’s the consequence of a lot of this music we are talking about. A lot of these artists couldn’t play to white audiences because the US system wouldn’t let them. Jimi couldn’t make it in America because he was black but played rock. So black stations wouldn’t play him  cuz he didn’t make soul and white stations wouldn’t play him because he was black. Why couldn’t these blues masters make money and were obscure? Because the law said they couldn’t play in white venues. But the law isn’t capitalism. It’s the economic system.

Or what about after disco left the pop charts? At that point music was segregated into different genres in the pop charts and you didn’t have a single black musician in top of the pop charts for nearly three or four years until Michael Jackson made Billie Jean a single. But is that a symptom of capitalism or just good ol fashion racism? MTV refused to play black artists because of this genre divide. Again, is that capitalism? This is where it gets shaky. And yet capitalism allowed Michael to blossom and this allowed more black artists than ever to diservify and have a music voice in the mainstream. So which is it, PD? Capitalism bad? Capitalism good? Or is it just a system that can be used for both?

I think you’re making the mistake that I used to. I think you’re wrongfully attributing any act of racism or exploitation of black people as capitalism as if we are a socialist nation equivalent. Like, how can you keep blaming capitalism when you admit dudes like BB King were able to make bank across the pond when UK itself is a capitalist society? It’s like you’re acting like that social forces of America exist within the vacuum of capitalism when it should be obvious why these musicians could make it abroad and not America and it sure  ain’t cuz of capitalism.

[Himu]

I got serious problems when people - especially blacks people - claim that all these U.K. dudes did was just steal from black musicians as if they were just evil racist shit heads which is how I initially interpreted your first post.

Also iirc you didn’t like jazz that had lots of improvisation.

[Nola]

You can't have it both ways Cindi, you can't credit capitalism for the positive proliferation of America's diverse music scene because it happened to occur under it's broad umbrella and then ignore the shitty racist stuff that also happened under its purview, often strengthened and solidified by its direct dynamics.

[Himu]

You can't have it both ways Cindi, you can't credit capitalism for the positive proliferation of America's diverse music scene because it happened to occur under it's broad umbrella and then ignore the shitty racist stuff that also happened under its purview, often strengthened and solidified by its direct dynamics.

That’s fair. But I’m separating capitalism from Jim Crow segregation and also radio segregation. So in my mind they’re completely different because nothing was stopping some white boy or girl from listening to James Brown when they got the same radio waves. Capitalism allowed that shit to exist. But it’s not capitalism’s fault man decided to segregate something as holy and beautiful as getting down (tm).

But beyond that conceit....you’re right.

[Himu]

Also Nola I will respond to your other very good posts when I get home. Three hours left till I finish that 12 hour shift.

I take back everything good I said about capitalism.

J/k

[Nola]

That’s fair. But I’m separating capitalism from Jim Crow segregation and also radio segregation. So in my mind they’re completely different because nothing was stopping some white boy or girl from listening to James Brown when they got the same radio waves. Capitalism allowed that shit to exist. But it’s not capitalism’s fault man decided to segregate something as holy and beautiful as getting down (tm).

The basic structure of capitalism as most would define it also theoretically(and has in practice) allows white owners in a town where most of the wealth is owned by white people to freeze out credit, service, and good paying jobs to minorities, and use that framework to take discrimination and hardcode it into an indefinite disadvantage for a group of people....Capitalism also allows that shit to exist.

I guess the point I am trying to get across is that yes, I agree, on the one hand the capitalist structure(again, in the broad sense) provides a framework that can allow a person to profit off the creation of their artistry. Which is one way(amongst many I would argue) to incentivize and proliferate the spread and evolution of art. However, those same frameworks can also hardcode racism and inequality in a society, Like PD pointed out.

[Himu]

 NOLA:



I can go with that.
 
Capitalism can say,”kids pleas buy this black mans art” but also “kids please don’t ever purchase black peoples art, they will lead you to the devil”.

So systems are neutral. And can be used as tools: for good or for bad.

I think the main sticking point is our take on socialism and how it fares as a tool. I agree with Shasta McNasty when he said collectivist economy leads to collectivist culture so I obviously think it’s a pretty limited tool.

That said I couldn’t entirely say all of socialism is bad because I really like weekends and eight hour days and the idea of retirement and UHC. So I like that stuff. But when it comes to the collectivist ideas and strong arming people to fall to group peer pressure to share the same attitudes and values is when it turns me off.

So I was wrong to shit on socialism because I know more than anyone why it has appeal and that (most) socialists ultimately have their heart in the right place.

So there’s that.

I just like to double down and be a stubborn blow hard. Kek.

[agrajag]

Cindi, socialism is all around us. Socialist ideas are ingrained in our capitalist society that you cherish. It's just a matter of how far we go with them.

Lawrence O'Donell is kind of a blowhard tool and I normally wouldn't link to him, but he nevertheless very elegantly explained this on C-Span:

[Crash Dummy]

wait kara is a socialist?

[Mandark]

wait kara is a socialist?

Crash Dummy
Member

Email
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Date Registered: December 15, 2010, 12:47:41 PM



Get with it, man!

[Crash Dummy]

he will always be a fellow tax professional to me!

[Cerveza mas fina]

Wait so now himuro is for a lot of socialist things like healthcare

Thats a new record for flip flopping

[Oblivion]

"So what was the breaking point that led you to realize the Left had finally gone too far?"

"When some college kids got mad at Richard Spencer for coming to their campus to argue in favor of ethnic cleansing"

[benjipwns]

[curly]

or even correctly identifying the conditions that lead to truly flourishing arts (widespread humanism, serious tragedy, economic hardship, cross cultural pollination).

objection

the conditions that lead to a flourishing of any particular type of art are way too fine grain to reduce to these sort of basal factors. To speak on my particular wheelhouse, noteworthy periods of film production have more to do with much more specific conditions of production within a particular nation's industry, mass media consumption habits, small groups of talented filmmakers forming up and influencing each other, etc. Yeah broad causes matter but when you try to delineate them or God forbid create a formula you're just backing yourself into a corner.

To take the Soviet example, yes Tarkovsky had a horrible relationship with the authorities but he is far from an example of a unique genius who overcame the unfortunate location of his birth, in fact he is very much a Soviet filmmaker and especially their system of film education. The Soviet Institute of Cinematographer produced really incredible directors and cinematographers, ones far less known than Tarkovsky, that in craft represent the peak of cinema. The only problem with Andrei Rublev is that it's almost too perfect, to paraphrase one of our great art critics. And Tarkovsky is far from a lone talent in an otherwise barren landscape. Give me The Ascent over any American movie made since.

Or for an example from the capitalist world the Japanese new wave made some of the boldest avant garde films ever in part because of all that shit we all know about the 60s but just as much because Japanese movie studios were desperate because they were losing money to TV and made the most inexplicable business decision of all time and hired a bunch of freaks who were sick of how nice Ozu made Japanese society seem.

[VomKriege]

I'm barging in without having read the topic so please disregard but Marxism, for better and for worse, has had a huge impetus on arts, sciences (especially humanities) and academics. Fascism did too to an extent. To just boil down things to "socialism" = "totalitarian" = "stifling intelligence" is a bit ridiculous. I'd much rather live where I did than in the USSR or the PRC but let's not be dumb.

You can argue Marxism is of its time, partly or wholly obsolete, overtly "positivist" or "scientific" but it did infuse a rational duty and healthy self examination in many fields.

Or for an example from the capitalist world the Japanese new wave made some of the boldest avant garde films ever in part because of all that shit we all know about the 60s but just as much because Japanese movie studios were desperate because they were losing money to TV and made the most inexplicable business decision of all time and hired a bunch of freaks who were sick of how nice Ozu made Japanese society seem.

And some ended up blacklisted for it by the studio cartel. Freedom !

[warcock]

We stole soviet space rocket engine tech in the 21st century.

[MMaRsu]

I havent seen BP because I'm not really interested in a political message when watching a marvel movie.

[benjipwns]

It's not really political. It's much like the description of The Winter Soldier as a "political thriller" by fans. Thor: Ragnarok could be considered to have a political message if you wanted it to. Or Doctor Strange.

[Crash Dummy]

Wait so now himuro is for a lot of socialist things like healthcare

Thats a new record for flip flopping

she's christian i gather from this thread, healthcare seems to be pretty compatible with christian values no?

[Nabbis]

I havent seen BP because I'm not really interested in a political message when watching a marvel movie.

The message is that one of the richest countries in the world needs crisis centers before anyone else.

[bork]

I provided a nice clean exit for the thread, and even Shosta was having the right idea by not reading, but now this shit's going to go on for another 5 pages

Let's talk about video games.  I like video games.

[benjipwns]

Tetris? Capita...wait...

[HardcoreRetro]

Let's not forget Puyo Puyo, the game for nazies. Only puyo of the same colour belong together.

[Himu]

Wait so now himuro is for a lot of socialist things like healthcare

Thats a new record for flip flopping

I said earlier in the thread multiple times that pure capitalism isn’t good. I also said socialism acts as a check on capitalism and I’ve been for better healthcare from the very beginning. I’ve been pretty consistent on that. You’re just a distinguished mentally-challenged fellow.

When I talk about socialism, I’m obviously talking about full on socialism. I pretty much admitted you need *some* socialism (or social programs at the least) almost from the very beginning. Another thing I’ve been consistent on. If you had been paying attention and actually engaging with another person rather than be a smug Yuro you would had seen this.  This is why you are not worth engaging. You’re just an asshole.

[Himu]

Wait so now himuro is for a lot of socialist things like healthcare

Thats a new record for flip flopping

she's christian i gather from this thread, healthcare seems to be pretty compatible with christian values no?

Sssshhhh. Let him put Christians in a box that he’s learned about r/atheism.

[Mandark]

I provided a nice clean exit for the thread, and even Shosta was having the right idea by not reading, but now this shit's going to go on for another 5 pages

yeah but this could be a productive derail where I get to find out about a lot of cool foreign movies

[HardcoreRetro]

Give The World of Kanako a try.

This bit from some review sums up why I love it.

"The World of Kanako” is such an in-your-face experience that its opening credits includes words sprawled across it like the old Adam West “Batman,” and those words are “Kill!” and “Fuck!” It sets a tone."

[Himu]

I am not familiar with Japanese new wave at all but Ozu owns.

But that sounds amazing.

[TEEEPO]

or even correctly identifying the conditions that lead to truly flourishing arts (widespread humanism, serious tragedy, economic hardship, cross cultural pollination).

Or for an example from the capitalist world the Japanese new wave made some of the boldest avant garde films ever in part because of all that shit we all know about the 60s but just as much because Japanese movie studios were desperate because they were losing money to TV and made the most inexplicable business decision of all time and hired a bunch of freaks who were sick of how nice Ozu made Japanese society seem.

if you're referring to the art theater guild, i believe toho only financed and partly owned its chain of cinemas, not their films which were self produced with some help from oshima.

art theater guild only started to produce their own movies once distributing foreign films, particularly western ones, became unlucrative.

but independent to atg was the whole pink film industry, which too was free from the shackles of major studios up until the 70s when studios started realizing sex sells


however, toho and other studios did use the independent movement as a means to scout talent, especially for directors that could make films on the cheap.

[HardcoreRetro]