Sekiro Shadows Die Twice (translator's note: Sekiro means ninja fuckery)

[Himu]

Jim Sterling video here btw

Problem is: Souls is an RPG. Sekiro is an action game like Ninja Gaiden. Yes it wants you to play in a particular way but there's lots of customization and different playstyles that come from that. Souls wants you to play a particular way too: by evading and using the side roll.

What I don't understand is why something needs to be like Souls in order for them to enjoy it. Different action games have their own emphasis: Ninja Gaiden is a heavily defensive game, DMC is heavily offensive, God Hand, Otogi, Ys these games all have completely different fundamentals. I don't understand why something needs to be like Souls for these people to enjoy an action game. To me it's like comparing Ninja Gaiden (an action game ) to Kingdom Hearts (an action RPG).

It's also weird how he says there's different ways to approach Souls games but not in Sekiro when Sekiro has STEALTH which enables you to decide how you will tackle situations. You can decide you're going to stealth kill this enemy here, and fight that one there. Or maybe, if you're up for a challenge, decide to take them on at once. While this sounds superficial, the enemies in Sekiro get TOUGH and this is an actual real time decision. Speaking of decisions, a lot of the fights involve a lot of decision making and you personally would approach a fight. So while it forces you to play in a particular manner it's up to you the player to decide that manner. I'm not sure how it'd be remotely possible to enjoy a game like Mario, Ninja Gaiden if you cannot accept that.

Anyways, weird. But preferences are preferences.

[Nola]

Checked the comments in Jim’s video. A lot of Souls fans don’t like this it seems.

Meanwhile there’s tons of people (like me) who never “got” Souls but LOVE Sekiro to pieces.

I hope this doesn’t get From in trouble and people skip on their next game because this wasn’t what they wanted.

Here's my thing, you have more than one team, let one focus on something in the Souls realm to keep the base(like me) satisfied(and the easy money rolling) and use the other to chase whatever new hitch in his formula Miyazaki wants to pursue now that he is over the Souls formula.

B-Team made Dark Souls 2

Didn't they also do a lot on Dark Souls 3? For some reason I thought there was a narrative about them getting their shit together.

I could also be 100% wrong on this.

[naff]

Checked the comments in Jim’s video. A lot of Souls fans don’t like this it seems.

Meanwhile there’s tons of people (like me) who never “got” Souls but LOVE Sekiro to pieces.

I hope this doesn’t get From in trouble and people skip on their next game because this wasn’t what they wanted.

Here's my thing, you have more than one team, let one focus on something in the Souls realm to keep the base(like me) satisfied(and the easy money rolling) and use the other to chase whatever new hitch in his formula Miyazaki wants to pursue now that he is over the Souls formula.

lol, i love how soulsbornes are becoming the new CoD. sounds like the beginning of a treyarch x infinity ward narrative.

y'all think the grrm x miyazaki faceless men GoT souls is fr?

[Don Rumata]

Checked the comments in Jim’s video. A lot of Souls fans don’t like this it seems.

Meanwhile there’s tons of people (like me) who never “got” Souls but LOVE Sekiro to pieces.

I hope this doesn’t get From in trouble and people skip on their next game because this wasn’t what they wanted.

Here's my thing, you have more than one team, let one focus on something in the Souls realm to keep the base(like me) satisfied(and the easy money rolling) and use the other to chase whatever new hitch in his formula Miyazaki wants to pursue now that he is over the Souls formula.

lol, i love how soulsbornes are becoming the new CoD. sounds like the beginning of a treyarch x infinity ward narrative.

y'all think the grrm x miyazaki faceless men GoT souls is fr?

I hope not.

[Himu]

Why does a game need a community? The game still has lots to find and lots of nooks and crannies. I found a hidden room in the Hirata estates. The game has a great story and lore that you slowly piece together the more you play. I simply do not get it. Wanting “builds” in a non rpg. It’s like Souls fans have never played a hard non-rpg before and it’s fucking baffling. Why they continue to compare an rpg to something that clearly isn’t is beyond me.

[Himu]

Even with a great non Souls game Souls fans make me want to choke them. “it’s not Souls” omg why does it need it be?

So. Fucking. Annoying.

The trash heap of gaming.

[Himu]

https://mobile.twitter.com/kawaiijetty/status/1112979150363602944

Most games are like this. There are two harder modes. Ninja Gaiden and DMC get easy once you’ve mastered them and then you can bump up the difficulty next game. So many games are like this. So many hard, crushing games.

These people are from another planet.

“There’s nothing to do except raise the difficulty in NG+”

Jesus Christ. It’s like their gaming taste is comparable to a child’s favorite food choices. Ice cream, every damn day.

[naff]

It's a very specific style of RPG. I don't think wanting iterations on soulsborne RPGs is that dissimilar from wanting a new capcom fighter, NBA 2kx, etc etc.

I have no doubt they will continue with nu-souls/souls style games, and I love that From is pacing themselves with them and breaking away from being one note. I may not be into it, but I'd be down to see what Miyazaki does with a Battle Royale (something he talked about in an interview a lil while back). The world building in souls lends itself to all sorts of adventures within the same location adding new aspects to the lore with each age they explore. I would be a lil' gutted if they never return to that world.

[Himu]

The problem is that From can’t make anything without Souls fans comparing it to Souls and expecting the exact same experience when the developers specifically said that it wasn’t Souls. And a very specific kind of RPG? An isolative rpg with difficulty and emphasis on customization/player choice? Play an SMT game then or any dungeon crawler worth its shit (Diablo 1 for instance).

Even in the story department there’s nothing unique about Souls. Many Japanese games have their bread and butter based on minimalist story design to emphasize interpretation, isolation, non-linear storytelling, or mood which force the player to piece together lore (or the story even) in an analytical way. Some quick examples would be Silent Hill 2, Shin Megami Tensei III, Shadow of the Colossus, and Rule of Rose. If it’s something recent you want give Etrian Odyssey games a chance?

[naff]

eh, you're cherry picking a tiny minority and calling it a problem

[Don Rumata]

A. Dark Souls is their main (or i should say "only", because all Armored Core fans have died of old age) claim to fame.
B. After Demon's Souls, they just kept doing Souls "clones" (Bloodborne is still a Souls clone) for 10 years (2009 - 2019).
C. Regardless, Sekiro has a very high metacritic and is generally praised and probably sold very well.

Like naff said, it's probably a loud minority being particularly obnoxious, and i think a comparison between the two titles is still in order, because Sekiro still retains some of that dna, however small.

I say this as someone who does generally find the Souls fanbase really annoying and thinks FROM did good, moving on from the old formula.

[naff]

naturally the internet amplifies the hot takes. the vast majority of reviewers and players are chill with this game and comprehend while it has similarities IT'S NOT SOULS GAIS AAAHHHH         

[Himu]

Why does a game need a community? The game still has lots to find and lots of nooks and crannies. I found a hidden room in the Hirata estates. The game has a great story and lore that you slowly piece together the more you play. I simply do not get it. Wanting “builds” in a non rpg. It’s like Souls fans have never played a hard non-rpg before and it’s fucking baffling. Why they continue to compare an rpg to something that clearly isn’t is beyond me.

I'm not saying the game needs a community at all, in fact I've barely come in contact with the fanbase itself because it's full of whiny weirdos apu with people who identify with such communities.

What I was saying is that From's design choices that allow for deep diving into nooks of the game, replayability, open mechanics etc. that allow for people to keep coming to these games are what made them stand out and are games that will stand up as such for the foreseeable future of the hobby. A decade from now people will probably still be pointing to Dark Souls as something to check out.

I like the game, but this fun singleplayer action detour won't have nearly as much staying power or notoriety because of the way the designed it.

It's not a knock against the game, but it's just something to notice.

This doesn't make any sense. "fun single player action detour" "A decade from now people will probably still be pointing to Dark Souls as something to check out." People still latch on to DMC3 and NGB. Those are "fun single player action detours" as well and yet people still made combo vids and master ninja runs a full decade after release. You are missing that most of the later game "easy" in Sekiro comes from skills. A no skill run would easily give longevity. The same is true for speed runs or a no stealth run. There is a lot of freedom available to Sekiro players and replayability.

People STILL make Master Ninja runs on youtube.



Shit, people even still play Mega Man 2 and that came out in the 80's.



Saying that a game can't have longevity or replayability because it lacks "builds" and it's a fun single player action game is fucking absurd. In Mega Man 2 the best weapon is the metal blade. It is without equal, and yet people still find new ways to make the game fun: p-shot only run, no hit run;etc.

This is why I can't stand Dark Souls fans. Dark. Souls. Isn't. Special.

[naff]

I like the game, but this fun singleplayer action detour won't have nearly as much staying power or notoriety because of the way the designed it.

They're not saying it won't be a significant title for enthusiasts, but that it won't have as much staying power or notoriety as Souls (I think ultimately it will be lumped in as a spinoff despite it's differences). bu is def right. Say what you want, DeSo was the genesis of a new era in RPGs and is one of the most influential games in modern game design. 

Also Cindi, I've played all those games except Rule of Rose and SMTIII (played SMT Strange Journey, though understand it's fairly different to standard SMT titles). I feel you on some conceptual overlaps, but I see a lot of inspiration and similarities with other RPGs in Souls. Still a very unique title.

[Coax]

When you obtain a new ability from a mini boss... but you've already unlocked it in the ability tree under a different name (?) a while back... Sekiro pls. Has happened like three times.

Gratuitous ultrawides

[BobFromPikeCreek]

Holy shit the skill you get after beating Corrupted Monk  So many places I need to revisit now.

[Svejk]

Someone made a map for Sekiro.  **Obviously, possible spoilers**

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

[Don Rumata]

Can you fuckers just play the damn game? Jesus Christ.

Post some progress updates instead of that "action genre purity" shit.

My brother just has two bosses left:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Owl 2 and the Sword Saint.

[close]

I haven't even done Genichiro yet, and i'm currently stuck at O'Rin.

[MMaRsu]

You HAVE to parry Genichiro as well though right? Or were you just running away from him? 

[paprikastaude]

That second boss fight on the rooftop though Yet another occasion during which I thought I might not beat the game. Pulled through after an hour or so though.

[HardcoreRetro]

2 hours on the

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Monk

[close]

and I never even reached the 3rd phase.

Yikes.

Oof.

I'll give him some more hours and then just drop the game. First boss in the entire game where you have to parry.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

You can get two stealth deathblows. Then abuse the firecrackers.

[close]

[Don Rumata]

2 hours on the

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Monk

[close]

and I never even reached the 3rd phase.

Yikes.

Oof.

I'll give him some more hours and then just drop the game. First boss in the entire game where you have to parry.

I think you can remove 2 health bars from him with stealth (though i think one is a bug since they used it in a speedrun).

[Don Rumata]

I think being able to get a second deathblow after the fog rolls in is definitely a bug 

A true shinobi knows how to exploit a good bug.

[MMaRsu]

near the sunken temple boss question

HOW THE FUCK COULD YOU EVER DEFEAT

spoiler (click to show/hide)

That dog/giraffe claw fucker that comes at you with six attacks in a row and takes off so much off your prostate bar?

[close]

[Don Rumata]

near the sunken temple boss question

HOW THE FUCK COULD YOU EVER DEFEAT

spoiler (click to show/hide)

That dog/giraffe claw fucker that comes at you with six attacks in a row and takes off so much off your prostate bar?

[close]

Literally spam block as fast as you can, and jump on its head when you see the red warning sign.
If you spam fast enough you'll deflect enough of them (and block the others).

Otherwise be a sucker and learn to properly deflect like a scrub.

[MMaRsu]

I can deflect all of them but my bar turns red after that, and I can get one hit in before he winds up another 6 attacks lol

[Don Rumata]

I can deflect all of them but my bar turns red after that, and I can get one hit in before he winds up another 6 attacks lol

There's not even a need to get a hit in, your aim should be to get attacked (and deflect) until their guard breaks.
If it gets real bad, you can just use the shield, that should take very little posture damage, and you can catch a break.
Jumping on its head after a sweep, also damages the posture a lot.

Also remember that if you keep your guard up, your posture goes back down twice as fast.

[Himu]

Finally had time to sit and play some today. Fought Gen. Managed to beat him on third try and then....well...

Turns out I didn’t beat him.

[Himu]

You HAVE to parry Genichiro as well though right? Or were you just running away from him? 

Nah, run circles around him. He is easier than the 2nd Boss on the Castle Rooftops later on

Genichiro’s meter goes too quickly to run around him without constant confrontation until it’s at least orange. That said he does a lot of avoidable attacks you can side step so I can see it.

[Coax]

You can Shadowrush him continuously in the first phase until he simply runs out of HP each time. For the final phase I countered his thrusts using Mikiri and went hard after him at close range (which worked super well, was down within like a minute). I found if playing it too defensively and keeping distance during that last phase he has too many opportunities to screw you (and despite following the tip couldn't get the Reversal counter to work).

[Himu]

I have only fought second form once. I felt trolled, died, and put up for the night. I’ll get him tomorrow.

I have no idea what shadow rush is.

From what I saw playing his second form, aggression is the item on the menu. Just go wild out.

[Coax]

I have no idea what shadow rush is.

Shadowrush is the last skill from the first skill tree tab (the one they all join to on the right side). It's a lunging thrust that covers a good distance and if you have spirit emblems to spare also sends the player into the air above the enemy's head for a little posture damage.

[BikeJesus]

Finally got some time to continue this game tonight. I feel like everything up until you beat the Bull is basically a tutorial. Now the game has opened up a bit.

[MMaRsu]

Killed Genichiro last night after fighting him about 50 times rofl

I think I was maybe a bit underleveled or something, I went and worked my way up to senpou emple and after that went back to genichiro and got him on my third try.

Also killed some miniboss near senpou temple which was almost the same as that other dog giraffe monster with claws but this room had adds on top of that lol. Killed that thing too.

Still cant kill the one in the super small room

[MMaRsu]

I think after I got another prayer bead and hit 4 before attempting Genichiro it really improved my posture and hp to the point where I can beat these fools

The journey continues tonight!

[HardcoreRetro]

Yeah, watching an unedited video of him wailing on the same boss for like 6 hours and beating some of the bosses in the most boring way possible. Pure skill and not a war of attrition in any way, shape or form.

[Himu]

[Raist]

Work has been nuts and even though I got my copy on day one I still haven't had a chance to play

Y'all suck.

[El Babua]

Ya same here.

Just got into the opening areas and that's it.

Planning to eat one of the 50mg THC capsules I got before playing Sekiro tomorrow night, then watch JoJo when it starts hitting hard 

[paprikastaude]

Took me an hour and only afterwards I remembered I still had 3 strength- and 1 health upgrade to cash in 

[Himu]

If the last boss is *harder* than this fight then LOL... some tough times ahead.

I heard last boss isn't too bad once you get used to them.

[Freyj]

I think I beat Monk 2 in 3 tries. Return ending final boss took me 4.5 hours.

[Don Rumata]

I still haven't beaten O'Rin. 

[Coax]

I still haven't beaten O'Rin. 

Some tips

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I found that continuously strafing/running around her at a distance without stopping was effective without taking much damage. Either in circles or left/right then drifting within range just as she finishes her swiping motions for a couple hits before drifting back and strafing again. She pretty much sticks to the same attack pattern so it's predictable.

Being more motionless just allows her to zoom in for hits and even deflecting her hits hurts one's posture since she sometimes follows up with more swipes at close range.

An initial stealth deathblow is also possible by getting behind her then throwing oil at her back. Aiming is a little inconsistent but once she's hit the deathblow indicator appears (though since she lurches forward the indicator is only visible for a brief period). If you miss it you can always quit and reload.

[close]

[Don Rumata]

Did the stealth attack trick and then cheesed her.
Her "fight" was utter shit, almost made me drop the game (still might, lol).
I still don't understand what you were supposed to do to fight her legit, 'cause i kept blocking and parrying 90% of her attacks (after 20 tries i memorized them the hard way) and yet still couldn't get her posture up, and could only chip away at her health bit by bit.
This isn't what i signed up for! 
I said i wouldn't play another FROM game with 50 minutes long fights, ffs.

Anyway, at least i downed Lady Butterfly on my first try, and Genichiro on my 3rd (probably cause i'm overpowered, since i cleared every mini boss i could up to that point), had fun with those two, tho.

But yeah, having to cheese that absolute-ectoplasmic-cunt, sort of soured me on the game, so i'll probably take a break of a day or two. 

[Coax]

50 minutes? Damn. Maybe my attack power is just a point or two higher or something but without parrying anything (or barely) and just using strafing + a few hits right as she ends her swipes with those upward poses it only took like 3-5 minutes (after a few tries with this technique).

Engaging with her while she's attacking and deflecting blows just lead to my posture being broken and taking damage so I found the method described above worked for me, basically avoiding her attacks.

[Don Rumata]

I think i had +1 attack power (horse guy was the only real boss i had done, i believe).
50 min was what it felt like  , it was probably closer to 15, but it still felt like i was blocking blocking blocking and getting a couple of hits in, but the posture would just empty so quickly.
I dunno, it was getting on my nerves, because she has a very limited attack sets, and so it didn't feel like i was learning anything from one attempt to the next.

With Genichiro, for example, every time i lost i felt like i learned something new from a mistake, so it didn't feel bad dying like that.
With her, it felt like, nope i guess i just gotta keep doing this but for longer. It's what i did, and took "forever" (figuratively) but just wasn't fun at all.

[Don Rumata]

Super easy boss.

No need to rub it in.  :'(
Anyway, i hate "run around in circle" strategies, tbh, the fun with the game, for me, comes from the parry and posture system (even if i suck at it).

[HardcoreRetro]

Borys misgendering the corrupt monk. :'(

[Coax]

Discovered there's a method to beat the CM (True form) boss like a minute. Lmao wut. It's even a legit tactic. Doing it this way makes it the easiest boss in the game and second easiest fight besides

spoiler (click to show/hide)

the fog temple priest guy

[close]

Thanks, From

Impressions of new area + a couple screenshots

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Visuals took a massive dive in general which struck me the most. Lighting is even flatter than the winter season earlier in the game, LoD isn't so hot (in other regions things like mountains/trees/haze obscure this), and layout is bland.

Enemy design so far is so-so, though the spear and archers look better. Feels so different from the rest of the game.

Not without some occasional flashes of nice visuals though

[close]

[HardcoreRetro]

Someone still have a throwaway Resetera account so you can make a "Where all the black people at in Sekiro" thread? Don't see what makes this excempt from the same kind of treatment Kingdom Come got.

[MMaRsu]

Why did I lure the guy.. fuck didnt want to do that

[kingv]

I’m at the blazing bull and having a time of it. He’s quite hard to dodge.

[Himu]

I’m at the blazing bull and having a time of it. He’s quite hard to dodge.

The secret is don't dodge. Just run. You have no stamina bar so no penalty. Lock on,  run, and chase him. When he whiffs, punish. Repeat.

[Himu]

?

are you on NG+

[Don Rumata]

I’m at the blazing bull and having a time of it. He’s quite hard to dodge.

Like Cindi said, run instead of dodging, also if you stay on his ass, he shouldn't have any attacks to hurt you, only if you're on his side/front.
Only use the dodge if you find yourself on his side, to move more to his back.

If you find yourself directly in front of him, and he starts to charge, double jump towards him, and you should vault over him, if you time it right.

Also get the firecrackers, you stagger him for a couple of seconds with those, but you can't spam them, i think once every 15 seconds or so, is the best you can do (?) someone correct me if i'm wrong here.

[Himu]

I noticed he bends his head when he turns. Good time to attack? Idk. I thought that boss was terribly designed.

[Coax]

Btw random tip from the loading screen I'd never seen before and wasn't aware of previously: hold either Left or Right D-pad to immediately go to the first item (eg: Gourd).

[Himu]

Already knew that one from the Sekiro tips vid I posted

[paprikastaude]

are you shitting me with that trash camera in final boss 3rd phase?