Author Topic: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2  (Read 35654 times)

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riotous

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #180 on: March 20, 2019, 02:26:54 PM »
Input lag like that doesn't "feel" as  bad with a controller though;  but yeah it's nearly unplayable with a mouse.

Rahxephon91

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #181 on: March 20, 2019, 02:26:56 PM »
Because it's pretty obvious that the input lag will improve.

I mean you just referenced playing street fighter 3 online and being happy with it. Which I'm pretty sure 5-10 years ago people thought would be impossible because of input lag. Yet here we are. Single player games will obviously be easier to do.

There was input lag during AC on the Project Stream test, but not enough to ruin the game. And not enough to think it would improve from an already solid base.

It merely needs to get good enough for most people to take off. And most people will already have access to it.

riotous

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #182 on: March 20, 2019, 02:29:07 PM »
Because it's pretty obvious that the input lag will improve.

Not really. 

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #183 on: March 20, 2019, 02:29:12 PM »
Input lag like that doesn't "feel" as  bad with a controller though;  but yeah it's nearly unplayable with a mouse.

Depends on the type of game. In a platformer, yes it does. Completely changes the nature and timing of the jump.
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riotous

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #184 on: March 20, 2019, 02:30:36 PM »
Input lag like that doesn't "feel" as  bad with a controller though;  but yeah it's nearly unplayable with a mouse.

Depends on the type of game. In a platformer, yes it does. Completely changes the nature and timing of the jump.

Yeah for sure;  feels ok with sort of.. "looser" controlled games.

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #185 on: March 20, 2019, 02:31:06 PM »
Because it's pretty obvious that the input lag will improve.

I mean you just referenced playing street fighter 3 online and being happy with it. Which I'm pretty sure 5-10 years ago people thought would be impossible because of input lag. Yet here we are. Single player games will obviously be easier to do.

There was input lag during AC on the Project Stream test, but not enough to ruin the game. And not enough to think it would improve from an already solid base.

It merely needs to get good enough for most people to take off. And most people will already have access to it.

Online is just a supplement. It's not the real thing (an arcade machine or playing locally). I know many players who refuse to play online even now. :idont Even then, I just tend to play games that would likely be impeded.
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riotous

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #186 on: March 20, 2019, 02:33:49 PM »
These demos are being done very near data centers;  that sort of optimal situation isn't going to improve over time as we aren't going to suddenly figure out how to get past the speed of light.. and beyond that, the reliability is still not 100% even when you live near a datacenter.   

What can improve over time is the average latency for the average person;  but keep in mind that in the mean time that also means the average person will be worse off than these demos being done near datancenters. 

You can check your GCP pings for instance here:

http://www.gcping.com/

That's the additional latency being added by just your network connection, the latency playing on a local machine doesn't have. 

filler

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #187 on: March 20, 2019, 02:42:01 PM »
*****

riotous

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #188 on: March 20, 2019, 02:43:15 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)

That's... not very good if that's the lowest one for you.

Mine is 17ms, in Oregon.  I get <10ms with Azure datacenters.

filler

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #189 on: March 20, 2019, 02:45:17 PM »
 :mjcry
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riotous

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #190 on: March 20, 2019, 02:47:29 PM »
Also I think there's a small cost to the video encoding they have to do that you don't deal with when playing on a home console.

However even 2 people with the same TV can experience different amounts of lag depending on their TV settings.

BisMarckie

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #191 on: March 20, 2019, 02:55:14 PM »
Rax the sole words of wisdom in this thread. Yall some ancient troglodytes with these attacks. If the general consumer was like you guys we would be still using Nokias FFS.
I just bought a Nokia phone for work. :fbm

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #192 on: March 20, 2019, 02:55:57 PM »
Rax the sole words of wisdom in this thread. Yall some ancient troglodytes with these attacks. If the general consumer was like you guys we would be still using Nokias FFS.

:idont

Sometimes high tech doesn't mean better tech.

In order for Google's thing to work:

1. We should all be on fiber connections or fiber equivalent
2. You'd have to completely change the fabric of American online infrastructure
3. Wireless shouldn't be the only option of play
weed

Rahxephon91

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #193 on: March 20, 2019, 03:00:54 PM »
Either way, I dont think its going to replace console gaming. But I think its going to do well and give people and publishers options. I think its exciting even though I probably wont use it.

This is something that wont happen, but Id love to see people try out Persona 5 or Final Fantasy X because they watched a thing about them on YouTube and then the link to play them was right there.

riotous

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #194 on: March 20, 2019, 03:01:52 PM »
Rax the sole words of wisdom in this thread. Yall some ancient troglodytes with these attacks. If the general consumer was like you guys we would be still using Nokias FFS.

It's impossible not to add input lag with this techl; it's impossible not to add unreliability with this tech.

These are both steps back that are unavoidable;  this has nothing to do with being a troglodyte.   There are obvious advantages and none of those advantages actually improves the PLAYING OF THE GAME for anyone who can afford hardware good enough for the graphics the strreaming service provides.

nachobro

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #195 on: March 20, 2019, 03:03:48 PM »


:fbm

nachobro

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #196 on: March 20, 2019, 03:06:46 PM »
ms is no better, the stream dream is dead :shaq2


Cindi Mayweather

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #197 on: March 20, 2019, 03:08:33 PM »
Northern Virginia - 49 MS

:beli
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BisMarckie

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #198 on: March 20, 2019, 03:10:05 PM »


:trumps

kingv

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #199 on: March 20, 2019, 03:15:22 PM »
There is a google data center 10 miles from me dawg. Give me that hot and streamy goodness.

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #200 on: March 20, 2019, 03:19:12 PM »
In any case, I realize I'm in the minority. I own a crt for my old systems, I keep my systems and don't sell them towards a new system, and I play old games. So maybe my concerns are irrelevant.
weed

riotous

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #201 on: March 20, 2019, 03:34:14 PM »
Yall not seeing the forest but concentrating on some burned, ugly trees upfront.

It's about ubiquity.

And I believe there's problems with this too;  I'm not convinced it's going to work from a business aspect.

Nobody has yet to come out and say this is profitable;  we had OnLive completely crash and burn quickly from the immense expense and we have Sony.. who haven't said a word about profitability, but the writing to me is on the wall... Sony has SCALED BACK streaming.. killing off clients, and adding downloading for PS4 users to discourage them from streaming games they don't need to.

It's not like what you are pointing out is some super secret mystery, this has all been discussed ad nauseum.

And that is why it matters. It removes hundreds of barriers of entry: both physical and price related

So what's the price then huh? 

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #202 on: March 20, 2019, 03:39:42 PM »
I want to emphasize that I think an option for both streaming and hard copy should be possible. Just like today, wireless controllers haven't taken away from the fact you can still play with a wired controller. Both have their own utility. The main concern comes when people talk of one technology "replacing" another.
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Spieler1

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #203 on: March 20, 2019, 03:50:41 PM »
tbh not even movie streaming convinced me. No one wants to sign up for more than one or two services at the same time and the offerings on their own are pretty crap. The most basic movies/classics are gone within a month on Netflix, or haven't ever been on there. I don't even want to imagine the licencing hassle for games. Not to mention that converting 60$ products to a stream will no way make for subscriptions as cheap as movies. Unless you go full mobile gacha and lootboxes for everything.

Don Rumata

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #204 on: March 20, 2019, 03:58:38 PM »
tbh not even movie streaming convinced me. No one wants to sign up for more than one or two services at the same time and the offerings on their own are pretty crap. The most basic movies/classics are gone within a month on Netflix, or haven't ever been on there. I don't even want to imagine the licencing hassle for games. Not to mention that converting 60$ products to a stream will no way make for subscriptions as cheap as movies. Unless you go full mobile gacha and lootboxes for everything.
This is true, but to a lot of people the mentality is less "i want to watch X, who has it?" and more "i want to watch anything, what does Netflix offer?".

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #205 on: March 20, 2019, 03:58:52 PM »
tbh not even movie streaming convinced me. No one wants to sign up for more than one or two services at the same time and the offerings on their own are pretty crap. The most basic movies/classics are gone within a month on Netflix, or haven't ever been on there. I don't even want to imagine the licencing hassle for games. Not to mention that converting 60$ products to a stream will no way make for subscriptions as cheap as movies. Unless you go full mobile gacha and lootboxes for everything.

Yeah. In the case of something like Netflix you pay once a month. How do you pay for games? Stuff is taken off Netflix all the time. What about when services shutter? Do you own it? Criterion Collection has gone from Netflix to Hulu to FilmStruck. FilmStruck closed down and now Criterion has to make their own service. Never mind that paying for a game has always been more expensive than paying for a movie. So what happens if it I pay monthly and I like this one specific game and it's taken off the service? Or what if I pay full price for the game and it's taken off? We have a something similar to how this is handled already and it's how Apple handles games. Firmware upgrades may or may not work with your games. Entire games have to be completely retooled sometimes to work on new firmware updates. People will deliberately not update so they don't lose their games/apps. I see a similar consumer/developer hostility with a stream service.

However, there's an anomaly in your example. I pay for Netflix and Hulu but I sometimes do rent or buy from Youtube or Amazon. They're safe and it's okay to throw four bucks at Google to rent a movie for a night.

It sounds good for disposable for gaming, but not much beyond that.
weed

Momo

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #206 on: March 20, 2019, 04:10:42 PM »
I want to emphasize that I think an option for both streaming and hard copy should be possible. Just like today, wireless controllers haven't taken away from the fact you can still play with a wired controller. Both have their own utility. The main concern comes when people talk of one technology "replacing" another.
I think Google fucked up by not launching a hybrid solution where you could have streaming everywhere but offline play for those who want it

Cerveza mas fina

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #207 on: March 20, 2019, 04:11:01 PM »
There might be a market for this but its not "teh future of gaming".

If anything gaming is very diverse now. PC doing good, Switch doing good, PS4 doing good, mobile games doing good. Very diverse ecosystem that caters to lots of stuff and people.

Lets not die on any hills here like Oscar did with mobile gaming.

mormapope

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #208 on: March 20, 2019, 04:26:27 PM »
I want to emphasize that I think an option for both streaming and hard copy should be possible. Just like today, wireless controllers haven't taken away from the fact you can still play with a wired controller. Both have their own utility. The main concern comes when people talk of one technology "replacing" another.
I think Google fucked up by not launching a hybrid solution where you could have streaming everywhere but offline play for those who want it

Its called Game Pass. I know the Xbox One isn't viewed in a favorable light on the bore, but as a service, Game Pass has been fucking excellent. There isn't streaming yet, but at this point, its not needed.

If tiers or packages are added, imagine paying $29.99 monthly to play most AAA games right when they launch.
OH!

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #209 on: March 20, 2019, 05:20:29 PM »
Sure game pass is amazing but xbox is dead outside of the us

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #210 on: March 20, 2019, 05:31:11 PM »
Sure game pass is amazing but xbox is dead outside of the us

I think its talking about how game pass works. Im pretty sure he knows the Xbox sales figures.
weed

kingv

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #211 on: March 20, 2019, 06:50:42 PM »
Im in for this just for space channel 6 and Panzer Dragoon Saga 2.

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #212 on: March 20, 2019, 07:11:10 PM »
Looks just like one of the countless services and products Google rolled out and then ditched and forgotten.
🍆🍆

filler

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #213 on: March 20, 2019, 07:13:23 PM »
it's like google translate, but vidya and they also want me to pay for it  :neogaf
*****

BisMarckie

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #214 on: March 20, 2019, 07:13:52 PM »
Looks just like one of the countless services and products Google rolled out and then ditched and forgotten.

Can't wait to log into the Bire with my Google+ account :hyper

chronovore

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #215 on: March 20, 2019, 07:19:03 PM »
I want to emphasize that I think an option for both streaming and hard copy should be possible. Just like today, wireless controllers haven't taken away from the fact you can still play with a wired controller. Both have their own utility. The main concern comes when people talk of one technology "replacing" another.
I think Google fucked up by not launching a hybrid solution where you could have streaming everywhere but offline play for those who want it

Maybe, but then you're still looking at being locked in on a device which is capable of downloading, storing, and running the game. The main point of Stadia is letting a datacenter do the heavy lifting on everything, and letting users play on whichever device they have handy.

bluemax

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #216 on: March 21, 2019, 01:56:17 AM »
People have been working on making this tech real in various forms for a decade, and I guess if anyone in the current climate could do it, it would be Google.

On the other hand, Google is not the company I would want in charge of this, because they'll either kill it prematurely or use it for some nefarious purpose.
NO

Momo

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #217 on: March 21, 2019, 02:44:49 AM »
I want to emphasize that I think an option for both streaming and hard copy should be possible. Just like today, wireless controllers haven't taken away from the fact you can still play with a wired controller. Both have their own utility. The main concern comes when people talk of one technology "replacing" another.
I think Google fucked up by not launching a hybrid solution where you could have streaming everywhere but offline play for those who want it

Maybe, but then you're still looking at being locked in on a device which is capable of downloading, storing, and running the game. The main point of Stadia is letting a datacenter do the heavy lifting on everything, and letting users play on whichever device they have handy.
you're not locked in though, google just has to mandate a min spec version that plays on box X for the people who want to have that experience and the rest still streams. Even box users can then go hop on a bus and play on their phone later

Rufus

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #218 on: March 21, 2019, 12:05:46 PM »
People have been working on making this tech real in various forms for a decade, and I guess if anyone in the current climate could do it, it would be Google.

On the other hand, Google is not the company I would want in charge of this, because they'll either kill it prematurely or use it for some nefarious purpose.
Hey there, Mr. Bluemax. Using http instead of https will unfuck your avatar. Tyvm. :heart

Raist

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #219 on: March 21, 2019, 05:29:43 PM »
https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/20/18273991/google-stadia-microsoft-xbox-phil-spencer-response-comments


Quote from: Phil Spencer
Their announcement is validation of the path we embarked on two years ago, says Spencer.

Yes Phil, because no one did streaming before you embarked on that path :lol

chronovore

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #220 on: March 21, 2019, 07:31:31 PM »
I want to emphasize that I think an option for both streaming and hard copy should be possible. Just like today, wireless controllers haven't taken away from the fact you can still play with a wired controller. Both have their own utility. The main concern comes when people talk of one technology "replacing" another.
I think Google fucked up by not launching a hybrid solution where you could have streaming everywhere but offline play for those who want it

Maybe, but then you're still looking at being locked in on a device which is capable of downloading, storing, and running the game. The main point of Stadia is letting a datacenter do the heavy lifting on everything, and letting users play on whichever device they have handy.
you're not locked in though, google just has to mandate a min spec version that plays on box X for the people who want to have that experience and the rest still streams. Even box users can then go hop on a bus and play on their phone later

But then you have to have a means of communicating everything that happened on the local, play-capable device back to the datacenter instance of it, instead of having the datacenter be the only instance of it.

Svejk

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #221 on: March 21, 2019, 07:51:35 PM »
Perfect timing for the current state of net neutrality.  :doge

Nintex

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #222 on: March 21, 2019, 08:34:51 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)

:trumps


 :smug

Anyhow this is all part of more impressive cloud solutions running with the widespread availability of 5G in mind.
Google has all the tech ready when 5G becomes the norm in 2-3 years.
GAMER

nachobro

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #223 on: March 21, 2019, 08:59:43 PM »
Perfect timing for the current state of net neutrality.  :doge
indeed it is. google can bribe comcast and the others to give their packets priority and not count their data against caps :rollsafe

Human Snorenado

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #224 on: March 21, 2019, 09:05:55 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)

:trumps
(Image removed from quote.)

 :smug

Anyhow this is all part of more impressive cloud solutions running with the widespread availability of 5G in mind.
Google has all the tech ready when 5G becomes the norm in 2-3 years.



:bolo
yar

tiesto

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #225 on: March 21, 2019, 10:06:33 PM »
29ms to Montreal is my fastest... yeah fuck this. Not to mention this is pretty much the antithesis to how I play and consume games. Usually stick with one game for a couple of months and then shelf it when I'm done, so a subscription based service will soon end up being more expensive (also imagine if each of the big companies decide to bring their own subscription services to the platform). While half of what I do like (turn based RPGs), the latency wouldn't matter, in the other half of what I play (shmups, fighters, platformers, rhythm), it would be a dealbreaker.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 10:18:19 PM by tiesto »
^_^

riotous

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #226 on: March 21, 2019, 11:02:40 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)

:trumps
(Image removed from quote.)

 :smug

Anyhow this is all part of more impressive cloud solutions running with the widespread availability of 5G in mind.
Google has all the tech ready when 5G becomes the norm in 2-3 years.

What do you think 5G is going to solve? 

nachobro

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #227 on: March 21, 2019, 11:04:15 PM »
the lack of Gs. we need way more Gs.

benjipwns

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #228 on: March 21, 2019, 11:10:18 PM »
i have better latency to the Global HTTP Load Balancer than any of the regions, by 5-10ms :lol

Svejk

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #229 on: March 21, 2019, 11:25:39 PM »
Gs up, hoes down

riotous

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #230 on: March 21, 2019, 11:53:54 PM »
I think one thing you guys are ignoring about the success of netflix - and the potential success of stadia - is that its not just the carrot of netflix being one sub, a wide variety of content within that sub without any hidden extras, and that sub works on any of the devices you already own and you can access it in any way you feel like entirely at your own conveinence.

Its also the stick of cable companies being stupid greedy assholes, and that netflix sub letting you get away from all of their bullshit.

I think comparisons to Netflix are INCREDIBLY FLAWED, and comparisons to the film/video industry in general.

1)  "Buying movies to watch at home" was not how most people watched movies.  That market took off with DVD but it was still largely an enthusiast market.  The film industry had theaters + rental + TV syndication as their main revenue source.   You can't compare that to gaming, where essentially all of the revenue historically comes from game purcahses.. outside of DLC/F2P there is no other source of revenue.  As opposed to film, where there are huge swaths of the public who spent plenty of money on theaters/rentals/cable but never spent $1 buying a movie to watch at home.
2) Netflix only existed, and at it's price, because the film industry was desperate to combat piracy.   Piracy BLEW UP and became the alternative people had to cable / rental or even going to the theater.   Video game piracy isn't anywhere near as big of a motivating factor for the gaming industry;  it's big, but not nearly the same.. and pretty much not an issue for the console manufacturers.
3)  With the above 2 things in mind.. there is no alternative for consumers to play video games in order to complain about "greed".. if they want to play games they pay $60+ (upwards of $100 for SE's, season passes, etc.) and then play.    Movie watchers have and had tons of alternatives, and again.. had piracy..
4)  Also, Netflix is a service largely for older content... either really old legacy content, or stuff that already made bank in theaters.  There is really no streaming service for consuming brand new movies other than paying like $30 to watch "In the theater" movies on Xfinity.  It's really not the same as gaming, the market is way different.   If anything it's comparble to game pass, where the only "new" content is made by the first party. (and people are still unsure if Netflix spending on first party content is sustainable)

So with all of the above; where is the motivation for companies to stop being "greedy" as you say?  What makes people think that these companies are going to make game streaming super cheap and at the same time foot the bill for running the most expensive server farms immaginable?  Only Microsoft is doing "day one AAA" right now in a sub model and that's not costing them massive server farms for rendering, and they are a first party. 

At minimum being able to play AAA games day one in a streaming world is going to probably cost you an array of subs, and probably more than $10 each.  Every pub is going to want to get your $10-20 a month in order to foot the bill.  If you think EA, who right now charges $14.99 a month for instance, is going to throw all of their games on ala-carte services... I have a bridge to sell you.  And if you think they'll continue to charge only $14.99 a month while also paying for massive game streaming server farms.. again, I have a bridge to sell you.

So having said that.. we are probably talking about a world where getting access to lots and lots of day-one AAA games is going to cost you multiple fairly expensive subscriptions a month, all with a degraded experience with latency..

Quote
Sony and MSare stupid greedy assholes, and they have utterly fucked up huge aspects of the value proposition of owning a console in the first place in their chase to be more like a cable company.
Don't get me wrong, Nintendo are stupid greedy assholes too, but they're working in an entirely different asshole space.

Sony and MS are MASSIVELY successful at what they are doing, and they are making a ton of money for the people who produce videogames.  What in the world did they "fuck up" exactly?  People clearly see the value in paying $60 or even $100 (SE, season pass, etc.) for a game on day one.

And are you forgetting MS gives away all of their AAA games day one for $9.99 a month?   That is the model of the future if anything, paying pubs $10-15 a month for all of their games... or.. continue to pick and choose at retail cost.

Game streaming just has so many catch 22s..

It's going to be a worse experience than what "hardcore gamers" are used to, and probably going to be too expensive for casuals to really give a shit.

And to top it off, casuals are fine playing games that render just fine on hardware that doesn't even cost that much money.. hardware that is getting cheaper and cheaper, in an industry where hardware is becoming more and more standard, and porting between devices has never been easier.

5 years from now we'll be able to play PS4 level games on devices that can probably be sold to us for $50-99.   And download games quickly, and play them locally... and not have to worry about the problem that can never be completely solved, because of that old problem.. the speed of light (latency.)

benjipwns

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #231 on: March 22, 2019, 12:31:30 AM »
Netflix just reached the current state of the once Big Five studios this year. And they still rely on them for a lot of the content so their true assets value is smaller than that. If those studios pulled everything Netflix would crater, currently it's mutually beneficial.

Google probably isn't even doing that based on all their other experiments like this, they're likely just subsidizing things with their massive resources. It's a similar situation to the Epic Games Store in that we won't really know about this until the subsidies go away. And they will have to go away at some point before it's more than a niche part of the industry. I'll suggest that Epic is probably too late, while Google is probably far far too early. Except that I don't know how much the "parent" is willing to lose on these endeavors purely to have a foothold in the market.

I think Microsoft and Sony are eventually going to find that having the significant hardware storage on location with most of their users to be too much value to how games are distributed. And that a form of distributed storage to be the most "streaming" achieved that fits the development model. Me streaming the content off of riotous' and everybody else's Xbox while never or barely hitting a Microsoft or third party paid for server for example is too much value to ignore. I could be totally off base but I think even the other content streaming services are going to consider the same thing especially for regularly reused content, send it once when you can. Local storage options just continue to get cheaper where it seems you have to consider this. The current services all buffer when they can, this is just expanding the buffer and dedicating it to some level, which gaming loves.

Now, this might even be simply to cut latency or supplement streaming the video content or allow users to better play online and stream. Gaming has too many advantages tied into that local storage with comparatively fast accessibility, every attempt to escape it has been beaten back. Including in the forms of stuff like the move to CDs. Having things like hard drives and expansive memory budgets became too valuable to the development model. Even more than to the consumer arguably!

riotous

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #232 on: March 22, 2019, 12:37:42 AM »
Ehhh.. home internet connections both have shitty upstream speeds and are generally full of TOS's that don't allow home users to run servers.  While that's not necessarily strictly enforced, the moment tons of people start streaming 60FPS 1080p/4k video from their home the ISPs will definitely care. 

Also, talk about unreliable..

benjipwns

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #233 on: March 22, 2019, 12:43:51 AM »
I think that a reasonable arrangement can be made between parties on that much more easily than can figuring out how to fund the entire thing on backend content servers. A lot of major ISP's parents already have their foot in many places.

riotous

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #234 on: March 22, 2019, 12:47:05 AM »
So.. your neighbor turns on their console to play a game..... 

It's just not an idea that works outside of white papers IMO.

benjipwns

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #235 on: March 22, 2019, 12:53:17 AM »
The main thing I'm saying regarding it is that I imagine they're going to want to look into it more than the streaming of the video in the end I think. Because you can grab tiny pieces from many locations, then store them locally even if temporarily. All of which is cheap if you can figure out the well known technical hurdles and/or simply achieve a form of critical mass.

The streaming of the video content only is more than just a technical problem on one part of the final distribution, it's an economic problem from top to bottom in the development model.

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #236 on: March 22, 2019, 12:56:04 AM »
Okay; first off, without knowing what the content and pricing is for stadia, its pretty pointless speculating too much, because ultimately - as with every other gaming system ever made - thats what will be the major driver of adoption.

Technical stuff doesn't matter to a mass majority.
It really doesn't.
People listen to 128Kbps MP3s on some Beats By Dre headphones over a bluetooth connection to their phone.
They watch over the air 720p broadcasts on their 4K TVs.
They play games with Game Mode enabled on their TV with wireless controllers, and wouldn't notice input lag even if you have a whole setup mode specifically addressing it in Guitar Hero.

This isn't an elitist 'lol, normies' observation. Its just the fact of the matter that enthusiasts care about shit that casual partakers really don't.
Quote
Sony and MS are MASSIVELY successful at what they are doing, and they are making a ton of money for the people who produce videogames.  What in the world did they "fuck up" exactly?

are they though?
the games industry in the 'core gamer' space is... not doing as great as you seem to think it is.
Publishers aren't making moves that piss off the vocal #realgamers because they think its funny to piss them off, or because they're sooooo greedy they can't help themselves.

The user experience for a modern console is fucking shit. If you've become accustomed to it because its ramped up slowly, that doesn't stop that being the case for someone who hasn't.
The quintessential console experience was; cheap box, under TV, stick game in, play. Simple, idiot proof.
Now? Buy your expensive box (built in obsolescence of 2 years), create username and password, sign into services, put game in, wait what can be as long as an hour for files to copy over, connect to online services, download patch, install patch, restart game, sign in, get upsold to an online pass to play online, finally get to play actual game.
Its a fucking chore.

If the promise of click play on trailer -> play the fucking game immediately is even half met, thats an ease and simplicity of experience that Sony & MS long since abandoned.

remy

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #237 on: March 22, 2019, 01:10:28 AM »
The user experience for a modern console is fucking shit. If you've become accustomed to it because its ramped up slowly, that doesn't stop that being the case for someone who hasn't.
The quintessential console experience was; cheap box, under TV, stick game in, play. Simple, idiot proof.
Now? Buy your expensive box (built in obsolescence of 2 years), create username and password, sign into services, put game in, wait what can be as long as an hour for files to copy over, connect to online services, download patch, install patch, restart game, sign in, get upsold to an online pass to play online, finally get to play actual game.
Its a fucking chore.

If the promise of click play on trailer -> play the fucking game immediately is even half met, thats an ease and simplicity of experience that Sony & MS long since abandoned.
yeah this is the real boon of this thing if it works. I've been playing more stuff on console as opposed to PC lately because we have a one x now and it can't be overstated how fucking shitty as fuck just trying to switch the thing on and play a game can be sometimes

benjipwns

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #238 on: March 22, 2019, 01:28:01 AM »
I do think there is a bit of too much tied up in the whole "replacement" thing, or the idea of a "winner" and a "loser" as is so rooted in the console/gaming/human space.

It's true, Stadia or something like it can exist as an idea on the backs of the hardcore gamer being the first-run purchase and a more casual audience coming into it as you describe of the trailer/steam/video to game thing.

Basically, in other words, we're bringing back renting without the physical copies. But it's going to have to be Microsoft and/or Sony figuring this out to build on top of their existing console model, probably not Google. Google has no interest in the first-run revenue stream let alone how it comes to exist.

The form it takes will probably actually be mandatory in some way. No using a Xbox without this Xbox Live subscription even if you don't stream a thing.

Don Rumata

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #239 on: March 22, 2019, 01:30:26 AM »
Technical stuff doesn't matter to a mass majority.
It really doesn't.
People listen to 128Kbps MP3s on some Beats By Dre headphones over a bluetooth connection to their phone.
They watch over the air 720p broadcasts on their 4K TVs.
They play games with Game Mode enabled on their TV with wireless controllers, and wouldn't notice input lag even if you have a whole setup mode specifically addressing it in Guitar Hero.

This isn't an elitist 'lol, normies' observation. Its just the fact of the matter that enthusiasts care about shit that casual partakers really don't.

I made this point too, however there's also the factor that good enough internet is not really all that common (assuming Stadia needs >20Mb of ADSL) which would restrict its use to a smaller crowd.
And if you're catering to a smaller crowd, inevitably you have to offer a different kind of service for a different kind of price. (namely: better service for higher price, which goes against the very argument).