Author Topic: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2  (Read 82891 times)

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Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #180 on: March 20, 2019, 07:11:10 PM »
Looks just like one of the countless services and products Google rolled out and then ditched and forgotten.
🍆🍆

team filler

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #181 on: March 20, 2019, 07:13:23 PM »
it's like google translate, but vidya and they also want me to pay for it  :neogaf
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BisMarckie

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #182 on: March 20, 2019, 07:13:52 PM »
Looks just like one of the countless services and products Google rolled out and then ditched and forgotten.

Can't wait to log into the Bire with my Google+ account :hyper

chronovore

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #183 on: March 20, 2019, 07:19:03 PM »
I want to emphasize that I think an option for both streaming and hard copy should be possible. Just like today, wireless controllers haven't taken away from the fact you can still play with a wired controller. Both have their own utility. The main concern comes when people talk of one technology "replacing" another.
I think Google fucked up by not launching a hybrid solution where you could have streaming everywhere but offline play for those who want it

Maybe, but then you're still looking at being locked in on a device which is capable of downloading, storing, and running the game. The main point of Stadia is letting a datacenter do the heavy lifting on everything, and letting users play on whichever device they have handy.

bluemax

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #184 on: March 21, 2019, 01:56:17 AM »
People have been working on making this tech real in various forms for a decade, and I guess if anyone in the current climate could do it, it would be Google.

On the other hand, Google is not the company I would want in charge of this, because they'll either kill it prematurely or use it for some nefarious purpose.
NO

Momo

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #185 on: March 21, 2019, 02:44:49 AM »
I want to emphasize that I think an option for both streaming and hard copy should be possible. Just like today, wireless controllers haven't taken away from the fact you can still play with a wired controller. Both have their own utility. The main concern comes when people talk of one technology "replacing" another.
I think Google fucked up by not launching a hybrid solution where you could have streaming everywhere but offline play for those who want it

Maybe, but then you're still looking at being locked in on a device which is capable of downloading, storing, and running the game. The main point of Stadia is letting a datacenter do the heavy lifting on everything, and letting users play on whichever device they have handy.
you're not locked in though, google just has to mandate a min spec version that plays on box X for the people who want to have that experience and the rest still streams. Even box users can then go hop on a bus and play on their phone later

Rufus

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #186 on: March 21, 2019, 12:05:46 PM »
People have been working on making this tech real in various forms for a decade, and I guess if anyone in the current climate could do it, it would be Google.

On the other hand, Google is not the company I would want in charge of this, because they'll either kill it prematurely or use it for some nefarious purpose.
Hey there, Mr. Bluemax. Using http instead of https will unfuck your avatar. Tyvm. :heart

Raist

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #187 on: March 21, 2019, 05:29:43 PM »
https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/20/18273991/google-stadia-microsoft-xbox-phil-spencer-response-comments


Quote from: Phil Spencer
“Their announcement is validation of the path we embarked on two years ago,” says Spencer.

Yes Phil, because no one did streaming before you embarked on that path :lol

chronovore

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #188 on: March 21, 2019, 07:31:31 PM »
I want to emphasize that I think an option for both streaming and hard copy should be possible. Just like today, wireless controllers haven't taken away from the fact you can still play with a wired controller. Both have their own utility. The main concern comes when people talk of one technology "replacing" another.
I think Google fucked up by not launching a hybrid solution where you could have streaming everywhere but offline play for those who want it

Maybe, but then you're still looking at being locked in on a device which is capable of downloading, storing, and running the game. The main point of Stadia is letting a datacenter do the heavy lifting on everything, and letting users play on whichever device they have handy.
you're not locked in though, google just has to mandate a min spec version that plays on box X for the people who want to have that experience and the rest still streams. Even box users can then go hop on a bus and play on their phone later

But then you have to have a means of communicating everything that happened on the local, play-capable device back to the datacenter instance of it, instead of having the datacenter be the only instance of it.

Svejk

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #189 on: March 21, 2019, 07:51:35 PM »
Perfect timing for the current state of net neutrality.  :doge

Nintex

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #190 on: March 21, 2019, 08:34:51 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)

:trumps


 :smug

Anyhow this is all part of more impressive cloud solutions running with the widespread availability of 5G in mind.
Google has all the tech ready when 5G becomes the norm in 2-3 years.
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nachobro

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #191 on: March 21, 2019, 08:59:43 PM »
Perfect timing for the current state of net neutrality.  :doge
indeed it is. google can bribe comcast and the others to give their packets priority and not count their data against caps :rollsafe

Human Snorenado

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #192 on: March 21, 2019, 09:05:55 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)

:trumps
(Image removed from quote.)

 :smug

Anyhow this is all part of more impressive cloud solutions running with the widespread availability of 5G in mind.
Google has all the tech ready when 5G becomes the norm in 2-3 years.



:bolo
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tiesto

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #193 on: March 21, 2019, 10:06:33 PM »
29ms to Montreal is my fastest... yeah fuck this. Not to mention this is pretty much the antithesis to how I play and consume games. Usually stick with one game for a couple of months and then shelf it when I'm done, so a subscription based service will soon end up being more expensive (also imagine if each of the big companies decide to bring their own subscription services to the platform). While half of what I do like (turn based RPGs), the latency wouldn't matter, in the other half of what I play (shmups, fighters, platformers, rhythm), it would be a dealbreaker.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 10:18:19 PM by tiesto »
^_^

nachobro

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #194 on: March 21, 2019, 11:04:15 PM »
the lack of Gs. we need way more Gs.

benjipwns

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #195 on: March 21, 2019, 11:10:18 PM »
i have better latency to the Global HTTP Load Balancer than any of the regions, by 5-10ms :lol

Svejk

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #196 on: March 21, 2019, 11:25:39 PM »
Gs up, hoes down

benjipwns

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #197 on: March 22, 2019, 12:31:30 AM »
Netflix just reached the current state of the once Big Five studios this year. And they still rely on them for a lot of the content so their true assets value is smaller than that. If those studios pulled everything Netflix would crater, currently it's mutually beneficial.

Google probably isn't even doing that based on all their other experiments like this, they're likely just subsidizing things with their massive resources. It's a similar situation to the Epic Games Store in that we won't really know about this until the subsidies go away. And they will have to go away at some point before it's more than a niche part of the industry. I'll suggest that Epic is probably too late, while Google is probably far far too early. Except that I don't know how much the "parent" is willing to lose on these endeavors purely to have a foothold in the market.

I think Microsoft and Sony are eventually going to find that having the significant hardware storage on location with most of their users to be too much value to how games are distributed. And that a form of distributed storage to be the most "streaming" achieved that fits the development model. Me streaming the content off of riotous' and everybody else's Xbox while never or barely hitting a Microsoft or third party paid for server for example is too much value to ignore. I could be totally off base but I think even the other content streaming services are going to consider the same thing especially for regularly reused content, send it once when you can. Local storage options just continue to get cheaper where it seems you have to consider this. The current services all buffer when they can, this is just expanding the buffer and dedicating it to some level, which gaming loves.

Now, this might even be simply to cut latency or supplement streaming the video content or allow users to better play online and stream. Gaming has too many advantages tied into that local storage with comparatively fast accessibility, every attempt to escape it has been beaten back. Including in the forms of stuff like the move to CDs. Having things like hard drives and expansive memory budgets became too valuable to the development model. Even more than to the consumer arguably!

benjipwns

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #198 on: March 22, 2019, 12:43:51 AM »
I think that a reasonable arrangement can be made between parties on that much more easily than can figuring out how to fund the entire thing on backend content servers. A lot of major ISP's parents already have their foot in many places.

benjipwns

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #199 on: March 22, 2019, 12:53:17 AM »
The main thing I'm saying regarding it is that I imagine they're going to want to look into it more than the streaming of the video in the end I think. Because you can grab tiny pieces from many locations, then store them locally even if temporarily. All of which is cheap if you can figure out the well known technical hurdles and/or simply achieve a form of critical mass.

The streaming of the video content only is more than just a technical problem on one part of the final distribution, it's an economic problem from top to bottom in the development model.

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #200 on: March 22, 2019, 12:56:04 AM »
Okay; first off, without knowing what the content and pricing is for stadia, its pretty pointless speculating too much, because ultimately - as with every other gaming system ever made - thats what will be the major driver of adoption.

Technical stuff doesn't matter to a mass majority.
It really doesn't.
People listen to 128Kbps MP3s on some Beats By Dre headphones over a bluetooth connection to their phone.
They watch over the air 720p broadcasts on their 4K TVs.
They play games with Game Mode enabled on their TV with wireless controllers, and wouldn't notice input lag even if you have a whole setup mode specifically addressing it in Guitar Hero.

This isn't an elitist 'lol, normies' observation. Its just the fact of the matter that enthusiasts care about shit that casual partakers really don't.
Quote
Sony and MS are MASSIVELY successful at what they are doing, and they are making a ton of money for the people who produce videogames.  What in the world did they "fuck up" exactly?

are they though?
the games industry in the 'core gamer' space is... not doing as great as you seem to think it is.
Publishers aren't making moves that piss off the vocal #realgamers because they think its funny to piss them off, or because they're sooooo greedy they can't help themselves.

The user experience for a modern console is fucking shit. If you've become accustomed to it because its ramped up slowly, that doesn't stop that being the case for someone who hasn't.
The quintessential console experience was; cheap box, under TV, stick game in, play. Simple, idiot proof.
Now? Buy your expensive box (built in obsolescence of 2 years), create username and password, sign into services, put game in, wait what can be as long as an hour for files to copy over, connect to online services, download patch, install patch, restart game, sign in, get upsold to an online pass to play online, finally get to play actual game.
Its a fucking chore.

If the promise of click play on trailer -> play the fucking game immediately is even half met, thats an ease and simplicity of experience that Sony & MS long since abandoned.

remy

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #201 on: March 22, 2019, 01:10:28 AM »
The user experience for a modern console is fucking shit. If you've become accustomed to it because its ramped up slowly, that doesn't stop that being the case for someone who hasn't.
The quintessential console experience was; cheap box, under TV, stick game in, play. Simple, idiot proof.
Now? Buy your expensive box (built in obsolescence of 2 years), create username and password, sign into services, put game in, wait what can be as long as an hour for files to copy over, connect to online services, download patch, install patch, restart game, sign in, get upsold to an online pass to play online, finally get to play actual game.
Its a fucking chore.

If the promise of click play on trailer -> play the fucking game immediately is even half met, thats an ease and simplicity of experience that Sony & MS long since abandoned.
yeah this is the real boon of this thing if it works. I've been playing more stuff on console as opposed to PC lately because we have a one x now and it can't be overstated how fucking shitty as fuck just trying to switch the thing on and play a game can be sometimes

benjipwns

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #202 on: March 22, 2019, 01:28:01 AM »
I do think there is a bit of too much tied up in the whole "replacement" thing, or the idea of a "winner" and a "loser" as is so rooted in the console/gaming/human space.

It's true, Stadia or something like it can exist as an idea on the backs of the hardcore gamer being the first-run purchase and a more casual audience coming into it as you describe of the trailer/steam/video to game thing.

Basically, in other words, we're bringing back renting without the physical copies. But it's going to have to be Microsoft and/or Sony figuring this out to build on top of their existing console model, probably not Google. Google has no interest in the first-run revenue stream let alone how it comes to exist.

The form it takes will probably actually be mandatory in some way. No using a Xbox without this Xbox Live subscription even if you don't stream a thing.

Don Rumata

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #203 on: March 22, 2019, 01:30:26 AM »
Technical stuff doesn't matter to a mass majority.
It really doesn't.
People listen to 128Kbps MP3s on some Beats By Dre headphones over a bluetooth connection to their phone.
They watch over the air 720p broadcasts on their 4K TVs.
They play games with Game Mode enabled on their TV with wireless controllers, and wouldn't notice input lag even if you have a whole setup mode specifically addressing it in Guitar Hero.

This isn't an elitist 'lol, normies' observation. Its just the fact of the matter that enthusiasts care about shit that casual partakers really don't.

I made this point too, however there's also the factor that good enough internet is not really all that common (assuming Stadia needs >20Mb of ADSL) which would restrict its use to a smaller crowd.
And if you're catering to a smaller crowd, inevitably you have to offer a different kind of service for a different kind of price. (namely: better service for higher price, which goes against the very argument).

Cerveza mas fina

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #204 on: March 22, 2019, 01:36:16 AM »
(Image removed from quote.)

:trumps
(Image removed from quote.)

 :smug

Anyhow this is all part of more impressive cloud solutions running with the widespread availability of 5G in mind.
Google has all the tech ready when 5G becomes the norm in 2-3 years.

(Image removed from quote.)

:bolo

I have 60 ms to Belgium

(Checked on phone over wifi)
« Last Edit: March 22, 2019, 01:48:17 AM by Premium Lager »

Momo

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thisismyusername

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #206 on: March 22, 2019, 02:24:44 AM »
Europoors thinking their ping is going to matter with shit non-NAS streaming. What else is new.

@GreatSage: I don't think most folks will want to play with the terrible input lag. You couldn't play fighting games, or shooters (a big gaming segment there) on it, due to lag time between the input to the server and the server's response/showing reaction in twitch shooters like Quake, for instance. Some may adjust, and have no problem, but I really think a large majority will have a problem. Just like VR had a certain segment that had no problems, problems, and those that couldn't care about VR in the first place.

bluemax

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #207 on: March 22, 2019, 02:53:23 AM »
People have been working on making this tech real in various forms for a decade, and I guess if anyone in the current climate could do it, it would be Google.

On the other hand, Google is not the company I would want in charge of this, because they'll either kill it prematurely or use it for some nefarious purpose.
Hey there, Mr. Bluemax. Using http instead of https will unfuck your avatar. Tyvm. :heart

Doubtful, given that my avatar url is set to a file I hosted on my student web space as a college student some 14 years ago. That probably explains how Konami lawyers found me all those years ago.
NO

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #208 on: March 22, 2019, 04:31:23 AM »
@GreatSage: I don't think most folks will want to play with the terrible input lag. You couldn't play fighting games, or shooters (a big gaming segment there) on it, due to lag time between the input to the server and the server's response/showing reaction in twitch shooters like Quake, for instance. Some may adjust, and have no problem, but I really think a large majority will have a problem. Just like VR had a certain segment that had no problems, problems, and those that couldn't care about VR in the first place.

Having seen numerous arguments on self proclaimed hardcore gamer forums on many occasions on many different topics such as that controllers are just as good as kb+m for FPS games, that 30fps is just as good as 60fps because the human eye can't even see above 30fps anyway, that p2p networking is just as good as dedicated servers and that theres no such thing as host advantage, or that PS4 remote play to a Vita is just as good as the WiiUs bespoke high bandwidth low latency streaming solution...
I think you'll find out 'just as good' is fairly flexible in definition. To the point where 'just as good' means whatever is on offer.

Occam

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #209 on: March 22, 2019, 04:35:22 AM »
Unless time travel is invented or they build processing centers close to every single house, this can't work for quick reaction games like it does on home consoles. Light speed is a thing, and the data needs to travel back and forth (controller input). Every junction adds lag, as does your display. Sure, you can create games that basically play themselves, but what's the point? Might as well just watch YouTube then.
Also, fuck not owning anything.
504

kingv

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #210 on: March 22, 2019, 04:53:43 AM »
Those input lag videos do not look great to me.

Occam

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #211 on: March 22, 2019, 09:25:47 AM »
I have no idea if it will be successful; certain types of games that don't require precisely timed interactions can work streamed. However, given those limitations, it's not a replacement for local systems.

Is there any information available how well PlayStation Now is doing for Sony?
504

Svejk

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #212 on: March 22, 2019, 09:33:09 AM »
I mean... if Lougle moneyhatted the fuck outta CDPR and made Cyberpunk 2077 exclusive to this, I would insta get...  but we all know that that's not happening, right?..

Himu

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #213 on: March 22, 2019, 02:15:02 PM »
If you think the average person won't recognize when their controls aren't responsive I don't know what to tell you.
IYKYK

Chooky

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #214 on: March 22, 2019, 05:18:31 PM »
it is genuinely hilarious that some of you think that physical media is here to stay for the most tech-obsessed corner of the entertainment industry. you seriously think so bullshit like resolution or a slight input delay is going to stop a gaming delivery method that anyone involved in game distribution (outside nintendo ofc) has been working on for over a decade? as has been stated many times in this thread, finding a baseline of "good enough" will be enough to get this thing going, and those existing problems will be worked on in the coming years. physical media in any form will be for collectors only soon enough and it's silly to think that gaming would somehow be exempt.

Chooky

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #215 on: March 22, 2019, 05:40:44 PM »
ah man well i guess that's it then. the tech isn't good enough outside major cities right now and it will clearly never ever improve. nice try google but it looks like we'll be sticking solely with 100gb+ downloads for the next 10 years.

kingv

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #216 on: March 22, 2019, 06:21:17 PM »
ah man well i guess that's it then. the tech isn't good enough outside major cities right now and it will clearly never ever improve. nice try google but it looks like we'll be sticking solely with 100gb+ downloads for the next 10 years.

Streaming 4K will actually be downloading more than 100GB for pretty much any game you play for more than 6-8 hours.

There will be some games that will be absolutely unplayable on this.

Try to play Parappa the Rapper on PS4. It’s completely trash even with just the lag from modern TVs and wireless controllers. It’s almost unplayable and absolutely not fun. I can’t imagine it being even worse.

Occam

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #217 on: March 22, 2019, 07:40:21 PM »
Best case scenario seems to be 166ms lag. That's 5 frames for games running at 30fps, and 10 for games running at 60. This absolutely makes games like 2D shooters and platformers unplayable.
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GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #218 on: March 22, 2019, 07:42:13 PM »
And it would be nice if one of you chucklefucks would address the fact that it's not merely a "slight input delay";  that's the absolute best case scenario.

Whats to address?
Wireless controllers add input latency, doesn't stop most people using wireless controllers.
P2P servers add input latency to everyone whos not the host, doesn't stop most console online games being P2P.
Smart TV processing effects add input latency, doesn't stop most people having 'Game Mode' enabled and not turning that off.
Post-processing visual effects in all modern deferred rendering systems adds input latency, doesn't stop most games having a ton of post processing effects like DoF / Bloom / AO / AA being enabled by default.
Targetting 30fps adds input latency over targetting 60fps, doesn't stop most titles targetting fancy over smooth.
Making games animation driven rather than input driven adds input latecny while you watch an animation finish before inputs are registered, doesn't stop basically all western developed games doing that.

I don't get why you're adamant this is the line the average consumer will draw and refuse to compromise on.
People have played games that are entirely server based since Everquest. People played high input precision titles like Quake on a fucking 56k modem with 200+ ping.

kingv

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #219 on: March 22, 2019, 08:06:15 PM »
Best case scenario seems to be 166ms lag. That's 5 frames for games running at 30fps, and 10 for games running at 60. This absolutely makes games like 2D shooters and platformers unplayable.

https://www.denofgeek.com/uk/games/64131/stadia-recommended-internet-download-speed-requirements-1080p-4K-60FPS

This article says 30mbps is minimum for 4k.

30 mbps is about 3.75 MB/S x 3600 is about 13.5 GB/hour.

So about 8 hours to get to 100GB.

I’m not sure if I’ve seen the 3GB/hour anywhere, but that’s maybe for like 1080p, which would make sense as it’s about 1/4 of 4K

Himu

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #220 on: March 22, 2019, 08:15:58 PM »
Lmao greatsage, lag from wireless controllers isn’t that big. Definitely not 10 frames.

You’re making arguments without any data.

PS4 controller wireless is 2.4 ms which is negligible in terms of lag and not noticeable to the human brain. We are not talking 2 ms or even 10 ms (the lag of a wired PS4 controller, which many pro players use to play games....with the assistance of a low latency monitor of course) but 165 ms. In most cases today’s wireless controllers add aboit a frame of lag. That’s not shit.
IYKYK

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #221 on: March 22, 2019, 08:30:36 PM »
Facts                                                 Opinions
Lots of things add input lag                   Input lag is a deal breaker in and of itself to a mass majority
Game streaming adds input lag

Content and Pricing is whats going to ultimately make or break stadia.
Not input lag.

multiplayer games were not popular at all until Counterstrike

:what

Himu

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #222 on: March 22, 2019, 08:34:33 PM »
Lots of things add input lag. But the combined input lag isn’t a big deal besides specific genres that need tight reactions. However, streaming adds 150+ms of input lag in demos. Which is a considerably increase by at least 80 times the number is now. This isn’t hard to understand. Did you not read “negligible amount”?
IYKYK

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #223 on: March 22, 2019, 08:44:28 PM »
Lots of things add input lag. But the combined input lag isn’t a big deal besides specific genres that need tight reactions. However, streaming adds 150+ms of input lag in demos. Which is a considerably increase by at least 80 times the number is now. This isn’t hard to understand. Did you not read “negligible amount”?

yeah, I'm not questioning the existence or impact of input lag.
I'm stating that most people DGAF.

Most people don't buy low latency gaming specific TVs. Most people don't turn off all their TVs built in processing options.

I don't get why you're coming down so hard on the fact that this definitely matters to most people and this will definitely kill any possible online streaming only gaming system.
I'm not even saying this is definitely going to be a success; I'm saying it ain't the big deal you think it is.

Occam

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #224 on: March 22, 2019, 08:58:31 PM »
Lots of things add input lag. But the combined input lag isn’t a big deal besides specific genres that need tight reactions. However, streaming adds 150+ms of input lag in demos. Which is a considerably increase by at least 80 times the number is now. This isn’t hard to understand. Did you not read “negligible amount”?

yeah, I'm not questioning the existence or impact of input lag.
I'm stating that most people DGAF.

Most people don't buy low latency gaming specific TVs. Most people don't turn off all their TVs built in processing options.
I don't get why you're coming down so hard on the fact that this definitely matters to most people and this will definitely kill any possible online streaming only gaming system.
I'm not even saying this is definitely going to be a success; I'm saying it ain't the big deal you think it is.

And now those people who don't turn off image processing will have 166ms (or more) AND the processing lag. In order not to notice that kind of lag, you'd have to be suffering from some sort of terrible debilitating brain dysfunction that would presumably keep you from playing video games in the first place.
Are you saying that's Google's target audience?
« Last Edit: March 22, 2019, 09:13:26 PM by Occam »
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kingv

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #225 on: March 22, 2019, 09:04:39 PM »
I think the biggest problem is that the techniques that multiplayer games use to hide lag won’t work in this method.

Like Quake or Counterstrike had player prediction, and the characters would jump around on screen, but typically, it didn’t lag the players inputs to seeing stuff move on screen.

Like, you might have 200 ms of lag to the server, but you did not have 200ms of lag to moving your mouse and seeing the viewpoint shift. There’s no way around this in streaming a game without running something client side.

It’s been a long time since I played quake, and I believe there was still lag when you clicked to shoot or hit a key to move your character.

But modern games don’t even have that thst I’m aware of, just your shots might not register or your path gets slightly altered or whatever to sync you up to the server state. But like if you have bad lag in titanfall, you view still tracks the the movement of your right stick or mouse in real time, and you character is still responsive to your button clicks in real time.

IMO, this is going to feel a lot worst.

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #226 on: March 22, 2019, 09:05:53 PM »
You state that most people don’t give a fuck when I flat out told you that even pro fighting game players play on inferior hardware that adds input lag. Therefore showing that even pro players don’t mind the lag in today’s local playsetups. However, anyone who has streamed a movie on dsl with more than one person sharing the internet can attest, streaming isn’t perfect. You can get super low quality, constant buffers. If someone else is just using the internet connection or downloading something. Imagine playing a single player game and not being able to because someone is watching porn on Pornbub. Sounds fun!

In order to make up for that you need a much better connection, something that isn’t available to everyone. And in order for this game streaming to work even people with high end connections might not fit the bill. Very few people will be able to take advantage of this technology. And again, 10ms is not the same as 160ms. If you think most people won’t notice 10 frames of lag, you have another thing coming.

Finally, it’s not just streaming that adds it. Anyone who is into retro gaming or competitive gaming knows that lag is a multi faceted thing. Controllers add it, TVs add it, systems can add it. Some people play on a monitor and play wirelessly. Others play in game mode. Either way, the combined factors now aren’t that bad. But add streaming and wireless controllers and high latency lcds.

I don’t understand how you can think most people won’t notice. When I lived at home earlier this decade and shared a connection with my folks my dad who is a 60 year old man complained about Netflix buffering. You expect someone who plays games won’t notice there’s a delay when they move their character?

No fucking way.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2019, 09:11:57 PM by Cindi Mayweather »
IYKYK

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #227 on: March 22, 2019, 09:09:39 PM »
Retro games are where I really notice I put lag nowadays.

Like playing a lot of NES or SNES games feels pretty bad compared to what I remember especially through non official emulators.

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

  • Dumbass Monkey
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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #228 on: March 22, 2019, 09:19:51 PM »
Either way, the combined factors now aren’t that bad. But add streaming and wireless controllers and high latency lcds.

yeah, and you're still talking about 1/5th of a second delay between input and response.
If you're coming off of a wired controller high input responsiveness 60fps title to a streamed 30fps title, you're absolutely going to notice a difference in gamefeel, but you can say the same thing about coming off an old school FPS like a Quake 3 running at 200fps on a modern rig to a modern designed-for-console 30fps FPS like a COD.
People who are going to jump at this aren't coming off super responsive titles to make that comparison.

Thats why they were trialling it with a title like AC:O - animation driven player actions, not input driven, generous input timing windows, all the AAA 'little helper' controls that smartly veer you away from walking straight into walls and will snap you into the correct interaction hitboxes if you're close enough

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #229 on: March 22, 2019, 09:31:14 PM »
Its also odd to me you guys think only “hardcore” gamers will notice lag when in the current gaming landscape,”lag” is a one word rally cry of online games and has been since the early CS days. The purported suggestion that only hardcore gamers care about lag is...odd. Given that the biggest genre of the day are online shooters which is full of casual gamers. And even they,  when they’re not using it as an excuse for their losses, notice lag.

So the idea that only hardcore will notice makes no sense. Do you think only hardcore gamers play online games? Lmao It’s fine if you think it’ll be a success but a what a weird argument to make considering all of the current facts.
IYKYK

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #230 on: March 22, 2019, 09:56:45 PM »
Its not that they won't notice. It's that they won't care.
If you show someone a video of a splitscreen comparison between an Xbox One game and the same game on an Xbox One X, they'll notice the graphical difference, and maybe even the framerate difference.

but only 20% of Xbox purchasers buy an Xbox One X. I'm using Xbox as the diffference is more pronounced, but its the same split between PS4 and PS4 Pro.
80% of people don't care enough to spend the extra money.

If the value proposition is something like $100 for a controller, chromecast and 6 months stadia sub, versus an xbox purchase + gamepass sub + xbl sub, how much care is involved for that extra $300?

Which is back to what I'm saying; its cost and content. If cost and content are appealing, people don't care about the compromises involved.

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #231 on: March 22, 2019, 10:09:12 PM »
the inevitable glitching beyond the standard lag (a topic you keep refusing to respond to) is the question.

Like... what's to respond to?
I've had console lockups, game crashes, irrecoverable glitching, internet drops mid session, been matchmade against people on toasters... I can;t even begin to enumerate the sheer number of minor annoyances while gaming in any form I've had over the years.

Still game tho.

What's your premise? Someone hits a lag spike, then rage quits streamed gaming for life and gos and buys a console instead?

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #232 on: March 22, 2019, 10:28:13 PM »
Despite all of the drawbacks that make me personally uninterested in this, I absolutely think there is a market for something like this.

Something like split screen multiplayer at 4k60 would be cool, and maybe make the input lag worth the sacrifice in some games.

I could see a market for people that might want to check out like a Red Dead 2 or other major release that even people that don’t usually play games hear about and would want to check out while the advertising blitz is on.

But I’m not sure how the economics of it will really work out or if they can if it’s basically “just another way to play games that you can play on Xbox and PlayStation”. I feel like the entry cost needs to be low, and it also needs to have all the big games day and date of release to get a lot of adoption from casuals.... and I’m not sure how that will work out for pubs or google.

I don’t know enough (anything really) about the economics of bandwidth and server time to know if it would make sense for google  to just sell lifetime licenses for games at the same price they are on Xbox and PS4.... but based on what we’ve seen with PSNOW and onlive, I have my doubts.

And I doubt it makes sense for pubs to just transition to some sort of Netflix/Spotify licensing arrangement for brand new games.

Probably the best idea is to come up with games that take advantage of the strengths of the platform and limit the disadvantages. This probably means some sort of different types of games than what is currently popular on console.


Coax

  • Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #233 on: March 22, 2019, 10:40:36 PM »
I wonder if for PC games with significant issues that have community fixes whether Google would go as far as implementing them for Stadia. We've seen various games which are in considerably better form from such fixes and otherwise users would be at the whim of whatever state the official version is.

Coax

  • Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #234 on: March 22, 2019, 10:49:18 PM »
I'm not personally interested in it, I already saw how Onlive went. Just curious how they'd handle such scenarios.

chronovore

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #235 on: March 25, 2019, 03:46:07 AM »
Latency spiked can happen inside of a datacenter, let alone in major cities near a data center.

A tech that requies a constant perfect internet connections at all times is not going to be perfect for anyone.

I am literally typing this message while remoted into an Azure VM, and in the midst of typing it, despite my typical 10ms ping to the server, my typing stalled out.   This happens to me a dozen times a day, along with 1 or 2 disconnects.   And I'm on a gigabit fiber connection.   It's conceptually very similar to game streaming.

I mean shit, everyone here has played MP games and knows that shit will go wonky during any gaming session of decent length a few times;  now imagine that causing you to die in a single player game.

Yeah, except if the game's being hosted on Google datacenters rather than your home line, and the physics and damage allocation, etc. are all being handled there, then there's less bits of lag than when you're looking at peer-to-peer / last-mile connectivity and latency problems between two consoles. When everything's being handled on the datacenter and then the visuals lag, it's a problem, but it's a different kind of problem.

Tasty

  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #236 on: April 10, 2019, 08:29:40 PM »
Interested to try this out. Excited for the controller even though the face buttons are backwards.

Chromecast becomes the little gaming system I always knew it could be. :heart

thisismyusername

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #237 on: April 10, 2019, 10:59:09 PM »
Interested to try this out.

Of course you are...

Tasty

  • Senior Member
Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #238 on: April 10, 2019, 11:10:34 PM »
It's exciting new tech, who wouldn't be interested in giving it a try? :idont

Momo

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Re: Google Stadia: Electric Snoopaloo Sayga Bleemcast 2
« Reply #239 on: April 11, 2019, 05:58:51 AM »
 :letsfukk