Author Topic: Xbox Series S and X  (Read 31614 times)

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Nintex

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« Reply #240 on: January 12, 2020, 06:44:04 AM »
How do you guys feel about no true next gen exclusives? Matt Booty says all MS games will release on XO for the next 2 years.

Console war fanboy logic: "PlayStation is gonna have true next gen games!"

Business logic: "We wanna sell as much first party software possible"

The main difference between this gen and the next will be rendering resolution, load times, and maybe performance. Like, those technical things or issues will be the big ones addressed.

Scope, scale,  game design innovation, every game developer on the planet has had to play around with their own ambition versus budget constraints and time constraints. More RAM won't alter that significantly, a stronger GPU won't alter that significantly, an SSD won't alter that significantly.

The better question is, has Microsoft acquired enough talent to make good games outright. Nintendo developed Breath of the Wild for two pieces of hardware that are quite weaker than a base Xbone or PS4. But design decisions make that game something special.

Microsoft does have a taller hill to climb when it comes to ball swinging because of this, but it doesn't have negative connotation in reality for good games.

 :yeshrug

Like, if Sony unveils Killzone 5, a Resistance Fall of Man reboot, a fart sniff of God of War 2, an Infamous sequel, and Demon Souls Remake, and they're all PS5 exclusive....

 :snore
Most of that is true if the CPU's of the Xbox One and PS4 weren't complete shit and they are. The Jaguar CPU when it came out was just awful this gen has been fairly limited by these shit CPU's.
The Zen CPU's on the other hand are what you want in a console but if you need your game to run on Xbox One/X you can't utilize all the cores.
Engines like UE4 are also moving towards "more cores = better". When devs make cross platform games they have to aim at the lowest spec (Xbox One) and move up from there.
In other words, they can only do what they're doing with the Xbox One X, which is to flick on a few more graphics options. Better CPU's allow for more complex AI's, expanded interactivity of game worlds and much more.
Part of the reason why early next gen games like Destiny and AC Unity ran so poorly was because developers expected better CPU performance across the board.

If they would do Xbox One versions of specific releases such as the new HALO that would make sense. But if there's not a single Xbox Series X exclusive for the first two years and it's all cross platform they're putting severe limits on next gen.
CONTROL for example is mostly a CPU limited game and the Xbox One and PS4 can't keep up (and neither can the Pro and X in certain scenes). A decent 5 - 8 year old Intel CPU is fine with that level of debris flying around. The Jaguar was shit when it launched.

The good thing about the Jaguars being shit is that you can port complex Xbox One and PS4 games like Witcher 3 to Nintendo Switch without having to worry about CPU requirements.
The second good thing is that on PC you don't have to upgrade your CPU for another generation and @1440p you can keep rocking the i7 4790k for another 5 years :lol
The Xbox One > Xbox One X was already akin to only allow devs to port NES games to the SNES.
Now we're talking about a GameCube > Xbox One X type of gap between Xbox One and Xbox Series X.
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Raist

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« Reply #241 on: January 12, 2020, 12:58:39 PM »
How do you guys feel about no true next gen exclusives? Matt Booty says all MS games will release on XO for the next 2 years.

Isn't that exactly what happened this gen? :yeshrug

Eel O'Brian

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« Reply #242 on: January 12, 2020, 03:10:19 PM »
Not sure how this is any different to PC developers targeting a wide range of specs from low to high end, they've been doing that for years. "This only runs on i9 and 2080ti" would put you out of business pdq
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riotous

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« Reply #243 on: January 12, 2020, 04:10:37 PM »
Oh no we won’t get amazing exclusives like Ryse or Knack that could have easily been cross gen games anyways.

nachobro

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« Reply #244 on: January 12, 2020, 04:11:41 PM »
the order 1886 :yuck

Rahxephon91

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« Reply #245 on: January 12, 2020, 04:20:31 PM »
I really doubt Ryse would have ran on the 360 considering they couldn't get the 360 version going. So much for it being "easy".

No one wants cross gen games. They are a waste of time, resources, and only hold games back and I don't know how you can deny that. Xbox One already struggles with current gen games. How are you as a developer going to push animation, geometry, lighting, shaders, ai, scale, and whatnot on a macheine already struggling. Going to have to compromise. 
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 11:03:34 PM by Rahxephon91 »

thisismyusername

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Re: Xbox Series X - Render provided by TurboSquid.com
« Reply #246 on: January 12, 2020, 06:10:39 PM »
Not sure how this is any different to PC developers targeting a wide range of specs from low to high end, they've been doing that for years. "This only runs on i9 and 2080ti" would put you out of business pdq

It's different in the sense that generally once a new console releases cross-gen drops pretty fast. After like 6months to a year.

riotous

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« Reply #247 on: January 12, 2020, 06:39:01 PM »
Yeah I mean I’d rather they ditch it to.

I just doubt it’s going to be that noticeable.

Spieler1

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« Reply #248 on: January 12, 2020, 09:10:40 PM »
I didn't buy a PS4 until 3 years in, because I could still play the majority of worthwhile games on the previous generation. However, thanks to BC and upgradable games, a new console could now still be worthwhile even if it only acted as a revision. I.e. even if the exclusives are trash, this current generation still has a huge library of upcoming titles and it wouldn't be bad playing them with less load times and better graphics. Not to mention whatever is left in the backlog.

Couldn't care less about Sony 1st party, excluding things like Bloodborne, Astrobot and SotC once in a blue moon. However, I will main Playstation if it remains the safest place for day1 Japanese support. No way I'm waiting months or even years for the likes of Yakuza, Monster Hunter, Nier, etc. hitting either Xbox or PC. I'm only half-interested in the new MS studios, but I'm open to buying an Xbox if they make good things.

kingv

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« Reply #249 on: January 12, 2020, 11:34:00 PM »
I wonder if we will see games primarily for the Japanese market be held back tech-wise in future games partially because Switch is the best-selling console in their region. I think previous Ps4 development has created some momentum for these series to continue to be on PS4 because the engine already exists there, but I’m sure some bean counter is looking at the numbers and saying “you know, if we are going to have to invest in new engine technology, we need to find a way for Yakuza 8 to launch on Switch”

Nintex

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« Reply #250 on: January 13, 2020, 03:58:52 PM »
https://twitter.com/dark1x/status/1216469112798568450

https://twitter.com/dark1x/status/1216735976996900865

The bois at DF agree with me that the Jaguar is a piece of shit.
It was a piece of shit when it launched and a bigger piece of shit now.
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Trent Dole

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« Reply #251 on: January 13, 2020, 04:00:20 PM »
I will Day One PS5 *only if* it has full, disc based PS4 BC as in I put inside:

- RDR2
- HZD
- TW3

And it works no questions asked.

If it doesn't work then I will wait for FROM SOFTWARE PS5 Exclusive (not found on PC/ Xbox).
Ooh, if PS5 has the same type of BC as Series X where literally everything that ran on the last gen machine runs on the new one and they don't inexplicably remove it later like they did with PS2 games on PS3 that would be a huge tilt in their favor for me. There's some 4 only stuff that I'd not mind fucking with but what's there isn't quite enough to make me cough up 350-400 for a Pro.
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riotous

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« Reply #252 on: January 13, 2020, 04:07:46 PM »
The bois at DF agree with me that the Jaguar is a piece of shit.
It was a piece of shit when it launched and a bigger piece of shit now.

Literally nobody has ever praised the CPU in PS4/XBO;  everyone has been bashing it since the initial reveal.

nachobro

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« Reply #253 on: January 13, 2020, 04:29:22 PM »
Yeah, Xbone just downloads the game from the store + any 4K upgrade patch and just uses the disc as a check that you own it. It basically does that for current gen games too, though for those it just copies the data from the disc and then downloads patches.

also this "cross gen only for 1-2 years" smells like bullshit to me. it's easy to say that now when no console is out, but if the xsx sells like hotcakes then ms is gonna be saying "what's an xbox one?" pretty quickly. sorta like what happened to those ps360 ports of mkx and tomb raider.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 04:49:19 PM by nachobro »

riotous

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« Reply #254 on: January 13, 2020, 04:52:57 PM »
Yeah, Xbone just downloads the game from the store + any 4K upgrade patch and just uses the disc as a check that you own it. It basically does that for current gen games too, though for those it just copies the data from the disc and then downloads patches.

also this "cross gen only for 1-2 years" smells like bullshit to me. it's easy to say that now when no console is out, but if the xsx sells like hotcakes then ms is gonna be saying "what's an xbox one?" pretty quickly. sorta like what happened to those ps360 ports of mkx and tomb raider.

Yeah I think it's going to depend on the habits of the gamers.

Difference though.. MS just sold loads of people multiple years of Xbox Game Pass.  For the people who don't upgrade to be able to use the service games need to keep being released.

nachobro

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« Reply #255 on: January 13, 2020, 04:57:08 PM »
even so it'd be easy enough to throw a few cross gen third party titles on there and call it a day. plus some x1/360/og xbox titles and call it back compat for xsx owners while giving x1 owners some stuff.

even if they stick to it for a year i feel like it'd be easy enough to give xsx owners something extra to make sure they feel better about the $500 they spent like a high quality texture upgrade or fps increase if you play whatever 1st party title on xsx. that's what happens for some x1x titles anyway. pretty sure red dead 2 had an extra 20gb download on x1x at launch for 4k textures

riotous

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« Reply #256 on: January 13, 2020, 05:11:44 PM »
Either way my point has been: wait to see how the games turn out.

The point isn't that the Jaguar doesn't hold anyone back, the point is.. it already has.  Most games released in the next couple of years even if not cross-gen likely started development on those systems and can't shake those roots easily to the point where they'd be substantially different if they did release cross-gen.   That includes Ryse, like WTF are you even talking about Rahx?  The game was a prototype on the 360 and eventually moved to Xbox One... in what world does that equate to "they couldn't get the 360 version going"?  Honest question.. I can't find a single link saying anything remotely like that.. it was a shitty Kinect game they decided to shove in as a XBO exclusive at launch.  Which sounds about right for early gen exclusives in general.

And first-party cross-gen games are probably going to be better than the 3rd party one's we are used to for the same reason 1st party exclusives tend to take advantage of the system the most;  they come from the creator of the system.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 05:18:18 PM by riotous »

riotous

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« Reply #257 on: January 13, 2020, 05:13:06 PM »
I do find the DF comment kind of odd though...

Haven't most physics calculations moved to the GPU?  Isn't that partly why Crysis is still such a performance hog?

Also confused.. is he a game developer?  His comment sounds like he is.. but.. I thought he just worked for DF, with a focus on.. retro gaming...

Fifstar

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« Reply #258 on: January 13, 2020, 05:41:38 PM »
Maybe he meant they tested pc build around a jaguar cpu?

No idea if he has a background regarding programming, but he was known for being the 60 fos or bust guy back in the gag days.
Gulp

riotous

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« Reply #259 on: January 13, 2020, 05:45:43 PM »
Oh that makes sense.

nachobro

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Joe Molotov

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« Reply #261 on: January 22, 2020, 10:21:43 AM »
@Timedog
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EightBitNate

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« Reply #262 on: February 24, 2020, 09:48:09 AM »
12TF confirmed

:whoo


nachobro

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« Reply #264 on: February 24, 2020, 10:51:27 AM »
CDPR committing to making Cyberpunk cross-buy for X1/XSX. Any dev that doesn't do this is gonna be shitted upon pretty heavily I think.

https://twitter.com/CyberpunkGame/status/1231961469669068800

riotous

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« Reply #265 on: February 25, 2020, 12:12:38 PM »
Looking beefcake.. but that all was pretty well known, nice to have clarification that Phil didn't lie lol

demi

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« Reply #266 on: February 25, 2020, 12:30:09 PM »
1X seems to be getting price drops to $300 at various stores
fat

Trent Dole

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« Reply #267 on: February 26, 2020, 01:51:45 AM »
So this is gonna go for 5 or 600 then.
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Don Rumata

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« Reply #268 on: February 26, 2020, 08:43:24 AM »
This fucking thing is going to be $700
People made similar arguments for ps4 with the rumored 8gb gddr5.
I think 499 is a safe bet.

riotous

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« Reply #269 on: February 26, 2020, 10:58:13 AM »
MS is going to push their monthly payment plan heavily, which will include an upgrade to an eventual mid-gen refresh as well.

So yeah I'd expect base price to be fairly high, at least $599... 499 would be a nice surprise at this point.

Raist

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« Reply #270 on: February 26, 2020, 01:27:04 PM »
MS has been bleeding so much cash with Xbox, I don't think they give a fuck. Wouldn't be shocked if they go for 450-500 and just take the big L.

riotous

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« Reply #271 on: February 26, 2020, 02:05:02 PM »
MS has been bleeding so much cash with Xbox, I don't think they give a fuck. Wouldn't be shocked if they go for 450-500 and just take the big L.

Bleeding what cash?  I think people think GamePass is some big cash bleed.. and by their own words, it isn't.. and logically it isn't either.   Remember that XBL Gold is practically pure profit for them, and even if you got GamePass for 3 years for $1 you still had to buy Gold for that... GamePass right now has eaten into profits IMO, not caused them to bleed cash.

They aren't paying nearly as much for games to be on GamePass as people think they are IMO.

nachobro

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« Reply #272 on: February 26, 2020, 02:09:43 PM »
i don't remember what pod it was but they were mentioning for the indie games it'd be pretty easy to get them onto game pass. just pay the dev whatever they would be expecting to make on the platform over X years but give it to them upfront and a lot of devs would take the quick upfront money without too much problem.

plus according to phil gamepass members spend more on games and dlc than non members so that has to count for something.

riotous

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« Reply #273 on: February 26, 2020, 02:13:20 PM »
Most games make most of their money up front; then sell a good portion of their "copies" later (at way less profit.)

GamePass is mostly older games;  they get these games on the cheap just like they do XBL Gold (or Sony for PSN+) games because they are long past their "huge profit" stage and are often trying to market a DLC or a sequel.

Same reason EGS / Twitch / everyone else is giving away games left and right.. they aren't dropping tons of cash per user.

Raist

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« Reply #274 on: February 26, 2020, 02:17:02 PM »
MS has been bleeding so much cash with Xbox, I don't think they give a fuck. Wouldn't be shocked if they go for 450-500 and just take the big L.

Bleeding what cash?  I think people think GamePass is some big cash bleed.. and by their own words, it isn't.. and logically it isn't either.   Remember that XBL Gold is practically pure profit for them, and even if you got GamePass for 3 years for $1 you still had to buy Gold for that... GamePass right now has eaten into profits IMO, not caused them to bleed cash.

They aren't paying nearly as much for games to be on GamePass as people think they are IMO.


Both the OG Xbox and the Bone were complete disasters. The 360 did OK although that was most likely not a great financial success, especially with the RRoD fiasco.

Back when they were publishing numbers, without obfuscating them by being rolled into other divisions, it didn't look pretty at all.
And ever since they stopped (early Bone years), it's been nothing but massive drops in % revenues every quarter.

You have to be quite delusional if you think the Xbox adventure made them money overall :neogaf

riotous

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« Reply #275 on: February 26, 2020, 03:54:26 PM »
That's a weird goal post move... they dumped tons of money in the OG/360 era, then their board of directors made them stop.. and with Xbox One didn't produce loss-leading hardware.. they profited or broke even from day one.    No one said they have overall made money on the project, they are probably billions in the red.

Revenue going down doesn't mean they are bleeding cash;  what exactly would they be losing money on at this point?  They have profitable hardware, software and services.

Not sure why they'd suddenly be willing to sell a huge loss leader again.. they were threatened with closing the entire Xbox division down when that was their strategey.

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« Reply #276 on: February 26, 2020, 03:59:38 PM »
MS has been bleeding so much cash with Xbox, I don't think they give a fuck. Wouldn't be shocked if they go for 450-500 and just take the big L.

Bleeding what cash?  I think people think GamePass is some big cash bleed.. and by their own words, it isn't.. and logically it isn't either.   Remember that XBL Gold is practically pure profit for them, and even if you got GamePass for 3 years for $1 you still had to buy Gold for that... GamePass right now has eaten into profits IMO, not caused them to bleed cash.

They aren't paying nearly as much for games to be on GamePass as people think they are IMO.


Both the OG Xbox and the Bone were complete disasters. The 360 did OK although that was most likely not a great financial success, especially with the RRoD fiasco.

Back when they were publishing numbers, without obfuscating them by being rolled into other divisions, it didn't look pretty at all.
And ever since they stopped (early Bone years), it's been nothing but massive drops in % revenues every quarter.

You have to be quite delusional if you think the Xbox adventure made them money overall :neogaf

Is this post supposed to do anything but make you look like a bored Sony pony that has no games to play? 

OH!

Raist

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« Reply #277 on: February 26, 2020, 04:43:25 PM »
No one said they have overall made money on the project, they are probably billions in the red.

I'm not entirely sure how this does not pretty much mean that they've been bleeding cash overall. Other than pedantic semantics ::)

Which goes back to my original point. They're not going to worry about taking an initial big loss on XxxBoxxX Series XxX.

Is this post supposed to do anything but make you look like a bored Sony pony that has no games to play?

Still waiting on the results of that half a decade investment in first party huh? :ohyou

riotous

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« Reply #278 on: February 26, 2020, 04:46:37 PM »
Because the last time they bleed cash was probably a decade+ ago?

How is that semantics? 

They reported their first profit in 2008 for the division.... it's unlikely they've had any large cash bleeds ever since, certainly not as a strategy.  They've obfuscated their financials a lot, but there's no reason to believe they've been losing money.

Don Rumata

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« Reply #279 on: February 26, 2020, 05:32:25 PM »
Gamepass on PC isn't tied to Gold, so on that front, it's probably just an investment for the future.

Anyway, on the subject of selling at a loss, i just don't get why they'd do it, when selling the plastic box itself doesn't seem as crucial anymore, and instead pushing the service itself (cloud, or at least multi platform) seems to be the new hotness.
Even Sony is letting go of some exclusives.

riotous

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« Reply #280 on: February 26, 2020, 05:41:55 PM »
I would bet they profit off of $5 a month PC GamePass.

Again people overestimate how much they are paying for games IMO.

nachobro

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Re: Xbox Series X - Corona Delay Incoming
« Reply #281 on: March 16, 2020, 08:37:21 AM »
Some new info and slightly more detail

More console detail + specs: https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/03/16/xbox-series-x-tech/



Controller info: https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/03/16/xbox-series-x-controller/





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Re: Xbox Series X - Corona Delay Incoming
« Reply #282 on: March 16, 2020, 08:55:11 AM »
i have little reason to buy an xbox, cause i prefer pc and most if not all of their games is coming there. but that the controller is finally better for small boi hands like mine is sensational. thank you bill gates.
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Re: Xbox Series X - Corona Delay Incoming
« Reply #283 on: March 16, 2020, 11:45:31 AM »
Plz don't delay noooo  :'(

toku

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Re: Xbox Series X - Corona Delay Incoming
« Reply #284 on: March 16, 2020, 11:59:31 AM »
consoles are in just such a weird position rn or I'm old

Raist

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Re: Xbox Series X - Corona Delay Incoming
« Reply #285 on: March 16, 2020, 02:59:44 PM »
Those internals are... something else :lol


Trent Dole

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Re: Xbox Series X - Corona Delay Incoming
« Reply #286 on: March 16, 2020, 03:03:50 PM »
Haha a 3.8 cpu. I thought this was supposed to be the most op console ever. :doge
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Nintex

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Re: Xbox Series X - Corona Delay Incoming
« Reply #287 on: March 16, 2020, 04:02:11 PM »
Sweet new Xbox how is HALO coming alo... "WATCH THIS VERY COOL PORT OF GEARS 5 WOOO BANG BANG FORZA PORT VROOOOMM"

So yeah about the new game from Ninja...

"WEEEEEE SEA OF THIEVES IS COMING TO XBOX ONE X SERIES X X X SERIES!!!"
GAMER

mormapope

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Re: Xbox Series X - Corona Delay Incoming
« Reply #288 on: March 16, 2020, 04:37:20 PM »
This Xbox is making so many people blow loads, I anticipate next gen to be incredibly cutthroat and much closer to the 360/PS3 gen regarding competition.

consoles are in just such a weird position rn or I'm old

I'd say the gimmicks have been shed and the focus is solely on dedicated gaming machines. At this point, its bang for your buck, getting a comparable experience to gaming PC's for half the cost.

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nachobro

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Re: Xbox Series X - Corona Delay Incoming
« Reply #289 on: March 16, 2020, 06:13:42 PM »
Haha a 3.8 cpu. I thought this was supposed to be the most op console ever. :doge
sounds like its a ryzen 3700 (non x) to me. that's pretty solid and definitely current gen pc tech. boost seems to be throttled a bit, probably for heat purposes.

as a comparison point, here's the x1x and ps4 pro (xbox on left, ps4 on right)

« Last Edit: March 16, 2020, 06:18:10 PM by nachobro »

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Re: Xbox Series X - Corona Delay Incoming
« Reply #290 on: March 16, 2020, 06:28:53 PM »
Wow so they arent going with a laptoo cpu again?

Nice

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Re: Xbox Series X - Corona Delay Incoming
« Reply #291 on: March 16, 2020, 06:37:45 PM »
does that DF video have an explanation for why 6GB of the RAM is clocked slower? or which set of RAM the OS reserves on?

bluemax

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Re: Xbox Series X - Corona Delay Incoming
« Reply #292 on: March 16, 2020, 07:14:09 PM »
Microsoft is doing some of their GDC talks starting tomorrow. There's one on Wednesday around noon Pacific about the XSX and xCloud.
NO

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Re: Xbox Series X - Corona Delay Incoming
« Reply #293 on: March 18, 2020, 11:36:14 AM »
Will this have some advantage when I run it in 1080p?

Like more gfx options or supersampling?

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Re: Xbox Series X - Corona Delay Incoming
« Reply #294 on: March 18, 2020, 11:57:49 AM »
does that DF video have an explanation for why 6GB of the RAM is clocked slower? or which set of RAM the OS reserves on?
https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/fjy1sw/why_xbox_series_xs_dumb_106gb_memory/

This guy is on the right track, I think.

Coffee Dog

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Re: Xbox Series X - Corona Delay Incoming
« Reply #295 on: March 18, 2020, 12:18:59 PM »
I really don't get how the high end hardware specs even  matter nowadays. You're going to be stuck playing games that have to run on my PS5 even if you blow six hundred bucks on the turbo xbox or whatever.

I can't think of a generation where the differences between consoles mattered less than this past one. Would be interesting if the Xbox's additional power actually got put to use.

Cerveza mas fina

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Re: Xbox Series X - Corona Delay Incoming
« Reply #296 on: March 18, 2020, 02:58:02 PM »
Lmao sounds like something ps2/xbox one users would say

riotous

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Re: Xbox Series X - Corona Delay Incoming
« Reply #297 on: March 18, 2020, 04:22:28 PM »
I really don't get how the high end hardware specs even  matter nowadays. You're going to be stuck playing games that have to run on my PS5 even if you blow six hundred bucks on the turbo xbox or whatever.

I can't think of a generation where the differences between consoles mattered less than this past one. Would be interesting if the Xbox's additional power actually got put to use.

They have some really cool upscaling stuff they are working on for older games if you care about that;  adding HDR to OG Xbox games and whatnot. 

Beyond that;  both will be powerful... but early analysis suggests XSX might have significantly better support for ray tracing, which can make a difference.

But it's likely just some extra whiz-bang graphics.

kingv

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Re: Xbox Series X - Corona Delay Incoming
« Reply #298 on: March 18, 2020, 07:11:19 PM »
I feel like the Bone and Ps4 were closer in actual games than any previous consoles.

There really weren’t many games on X1 that were truly unacceptable.

riotous

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Re: Xbox Series X - Corona Delay Incoming
« Reply #299 on: March 18, 2020, 08:49:10 PM »
Yeah they just dropped the resolution down for the most part.   

With something like Ray Tracing being a kind of differentiator that didn't exist last gen, we might see some significant differences.  But that's based on what people are claiming on the internet about the CU count (plus the fact Sony kind of ignored RT, whereas MS has specifically shown off and bragged about how well it works on XSX.)