Author Topic: USA Politics Thread |OT| Son of a bitch!  (Read 483480 times)

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Potato

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4380 on: December 11, 2021, 12:40:46 AM »
Oh I see the US leftist media has given up on trying to prop up Biden and is back to discrediting Trump. 
Spud

Nintex

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4381 on: December 11, 2021, 05:33:26 AM »
The "coup" trail now leads to Kanye West and a powerpoint.

Going by the headlines...
Inflation is at 6.8%(highest in 40 years), the Iran talks are in shambles, the border is a mess, homicides are at record numbers along with OD's and suicides and Russia isn't backing down. And that's only current events.
🤴


benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4383 on: December 11, 2021, 11:40:51 AM »
https://twitter.com/Strandjunker/status/1469307941056651269

And that's why I support the Trump Administration started prosecution of a journalist, I'm a progressive who cares about civil liberties!

Pissy F Benny

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4384 on: December 11, 2021, 11:47:40 AM »
imagine being such a ghoul that you'd want to see someone more than likely tortured by the CIA for the rest of his life for reporting facts just because Trump broke your brain :maduro
(ice)

benjipwns

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benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4386 on: December 11, 2021, 07:38:27 PM »
Sources who have spent time with Trump at Mar-a-Lago say it's impossible to carry out an extended conversation with him that isn't interrupted by his fixations on the 2020 election.

He's intensely focused on demands that Republicans "get smart" and pursue efforts to "audit" and overturn that result.

"We try to get him onto other topics, but you always get dragged back," a Trump adviser said.

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4387 on: December 12, 2021, 04:11:48 PM »






 :salute
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Propagandhim

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4388 on: December 12, 2021, 04:25:56 PM »
throat goat Nancy R


benjipwns

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benjipwns

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benjipwns

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james

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:O

benjipwns

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Nintex

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4396 on: December 13, 2021, 06:08:40 PM »
I dunno Larry, let's ask the council first


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benjipwns

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benjipwns

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chronovore

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4399 on: December 13, 2021, 11:36:15 PM »
https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1470552655747588109

 :awesome
The entirety of the GOP hated Trump prior to his election. Then they all lined up to kiss the ring, once Trump won. They would have celebrated and fallen right into line again, had the insurrection proven "successful." Fuck each and every one of them.

Potato

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4400 on: December 14, 2021, 03:08:20 AM »
https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1470390337256538112
Well, a demagogue is much better than a demogorgon or whatever the fuck Hilary is these days.
 :holeup
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Nintex

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4401 on: December 14, 2021, 05:59:00 AM »
You'd think that 6 years of Trump would've made the libs realize that there really is no central planning in the Republican party but they keep looking for a 'leader' to attack.
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Ghoul

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4402 on: December 14, 2021, 01:30:43 PM »
 :no1curr

Go back to discord.

Uncle

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4403 on: December 14, 2021, 02:29:34 PM »
the two possibilities are

1) as the lorax prophesied, life returns to this barren wasteland and people who used this forum who dared not tread into nintex-space slowly come back

2) only benji posts tweets until he realizes nobody else is commenting and he peaces out

I suppose the next election will be the proving ground
Uncle

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4404 on: December 14, 2021, 06:01:46 PM »
When the world is dead the last light to go out will be a computer screen with a post from Benji.
dog

Uncle

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4405 on: December 14, 2021, 07:03:39 PM »
When the world is dead the last light to go out will be a computer screen with a post from Benji.

what will it say?
Uncle

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4406 on: December 14, 2021, 07:16:15 PM »
Probably a link to a thinkpiece about Soviet bloc revanchism.
dog

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4407 on: December 14, 2021, 07:20:38 PM »
This is me stomping all over Nintex's grave because that ^^^ was the last Nintex post in this thread ever because he's BANNED get fucked you fucking fascoid shit for brains  :brock

Yay I'm so happy they shitcanned Filler and Nintex. Now we can have a much higher standard of calm, non-emotive, reasoned discourse in the same vein as above.
woke

Potato

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4408 on: December 14, 2021, 07:22:41 PM »
This is me stomping all over Nintex's grave because that ^^^ was the last Nintex post in this thread ever because he's BANNED get fucked you fucking fascoid shit for brains  :brock

Yay I'm so happy they shitcanned Filler and Nintex. Now we can have a much higher standard of calm, non-emotive, reasoned discourse in the same vein as above.
Nintex died for this... :larry
Spud

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地平線

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4411 on: December 17, 2021, 04:07:47 AM »
The argument for having independently wealthy politicians is that in theory they are more resistant to corruption or bribery, rather than being grubby little grifters trying to stick their snout in every trough they can

https://twitter.com/JenniferJJacobs/status/1471493741810622473

case in point


D3RANG3D

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4413 on: December 17, 2021, 01:49:05 PM »

Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4414 on: December 17, 2021, 06:10:28 PM »
The governor of New York keeps changing goal post after goal post. This is driving me nuts and I've had all three shots. Accept that due to vaccines COVID is now endemic. Please. The higher the number of vaccines New York gets the more strict the mandates get. This reminds me of 9/11 and when all of a sudden I had to get my anal cavity checked just to get on a plane for "safety" reasons. Looking forward to voting Republican in 22 and 24 especially if they shy away from Trumpism.

https://cnycentral.com/amp/news/local/governor-hochul-intends-to-change-definition-of-fully-vaccinated-to-include-boosters?fbclid=IwAR02Yx6Q2M_UoDBdKMVPdzviDxMtUMFSytAOKq-GGcZSQtT52zShT39hZdI

IYKYK

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4415 on: December 17, 2021, 06:26:33 PM »
Really good talk between two great thinkers.

IYKYK

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4416 on: December 17, 2021, 06:57:17 PM »
jorp
dog

Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4417 on: December 17, 2021, 06:59:45 PM »
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/12/a-preview-of-gop-tactics-if-they-win-the-house-in-2022.html

Quote
    Conservative lawmakers, anticipating the GOP retaking one or both congressional majorities in next year’s midterm elections, are already calling for and strategizing around a fiscal clash in 2023, insisting on using the threat of federal default to place new curbs on government spending and reduce the $28 trillion national debt….


    GOP hard-liners — including members of the House Freedom Caucus, a group loyal to former president Donald Trump that has a history of pushing party leaders into high-stakes confrontations with Democrats — are vowing to provoke a reckoning over federal spending using every tactic at their disposal.


    “You have to use the tools you have to force change in this town,” said Rep. Chip Roy (R-Tex.). “That’s not going to go away until people get their head out of their [hindquarters] and actually focus on spending money that we have and not printing money. . . . Then we can end brinkmanship. If you’re going to keep spending money like drunken sailors, we’re going to keep fighting.”
IYKYK

who is ted danson?

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4418 on: December 17, 2021, 07:03:42 PM »

only to be opened by filler if he is ever allowed back ;)
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D3RANG3D

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Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4423 on: December 19, 2021, 11:31:47 AM »
:rejoice Manchin :rejoice

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/586450-manchin-says-he-will-not-vote-for-build-back-better-this-is-a-no

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1472208856742780928

(Image removed from quote.)

Les incompetents. This lady cannot handle pressure under fire and is one seat away from being president.

She hasn't been challenged in a real way her whole career and can't answer a simple question without flipping out.

Scary times.

And the worst (best) part? She's the Democratic front runner for 2024 and she's nowhere to be seen as Veep. AOC can't win on the national stage and Sanders isnt running. Iirc a poll had Buttigieg after AOC with a measley 8% polling. LUL. I knew she'd be bad but never in my wildest dreams did I imagine it'd be this bad.

« Last Edit: December 19, 2021, 12:02:32 PM by Himu »
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benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4424 on: December 19, 2021, 11:44:27 AM »
Looking forward to voting Republican in 22 and 24 especially if they shy away from Trumpism.
They won't. The Republican Party has degraded into nothing but a cult centered around winning Trump's approval. All else falls by the wayside in service of this goal. Liz Cheney voted 90% with the Trump Administration's legislative agenda but she has been cast aside (potentially literally in a primary) as a traitor for someone who voted only 70% with the agenda but who voted against impeachment. It's the same across the board for the other Trump sycophants like Jim Jordan, etc.. They voted against him more far often (less than 85% of the time) than others they call traitors to the cause but voted with him on the one thing he cared about.

The Democratic Party is garbage and a disaster but it's not a fevered cult. There are still good Democrats and the Party has policy goals even if most of them are awful and regressive.

The only good of the modern Republican Party is that they oppose Democrats. The problem is that they do it only in service of Trump. Say hypothetically that the Democrats propose an awful idea, hard to believe I know, but the Republicans will oppose it. This isn't new, in the past Republicans would try to find reasons to do so, maybe conservative principle of some kind, maybe just explaining that it's a bad idea that will do something bad, etc. Now they do all of this with one eye to what Trump wants. If Trump decides he likes the idea, it's a rush of Republicans to cast opposition aside and support it. Also vice versa.

As anti-Trump as the Democrats have become, itself a worrying issue, they have yet to turn their entire policy apparatus over to him. A Trump policy that Democrats like, while Democrats may engage in theater in the media about, they ultimately will support. Same with policies they oppose that Trump opposes. Even in some cases where they oppose policies Trump supports. The Democrats were willing to give Trump his useless wall to get other things for example. This isn't the case in the Republican Party. A deal with Democrats to achieve some conservative principles while agreeing to minor concessions can only happen IF Trump doesn't become animated about it enough to oppose it.

In every instance here where I use Trump also consider me to be including his outsourced proxies including popular figures like Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, etc. Trump doesn't care enough, nor is he smart enough, to have an opinion on everything he's asked about so he outsources his views and then backs those people up if he decides he agrees for the moment.

As for Trump himself and the 2022/2024 elections he's already established his litmus test for both of those: the 2020 election. He supports those who say it was stolen, he opposes those who tell the truth. Trump doesn't care about the Republicans winning 2022 if none of them pledge loyalty to his stolen election theory. At the recent Republican candidate debate for Governor in Minnesota, four of the five candidates supported the theory and the last one wouldn't go that far but admitted they have questions about it. This is despite two of them winning election in 2020 themselves. This is being repeated across the country, former Senator David Perdue's entire campaign for Governor of Georgia is based around the idea that sitting Republican Governor Brian Kemp stole the election for Biden. (Funny enough, an allegation he doesn't make about his own loss of his own Senate seat.) The further they go in pursuit of this insanity the better in their view since it's more likely to attract Trump's approval.

The biggest problem of all though is that this mad pursuit for Trumpism may not harm the party too much. 2022 and 2024 may be entirely successful following this endeavor, maybe even succeed in Trump himself winning again in 2024. A result that would only further damage the Democratic Party and encourage it into greater anti-Trumpism and apocalyptical hysteria. None of that can be very good for the body politic.

Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4425 on: December 19, 2021, 12:00:45 PM »
What about the Virginia race last month? The winner kept Trump at arms length and still won. What about the rise of GOP in NJ?

If Republicans run on common sense COVID control and rulings that don't emulate a police state, target wokism and progressivism, unite people of varying creeds against the left then they potentially stand a chance without running Trumpism. The problem is many Republicans like Cruz and DeSantis have baggage. Bad, bad baggage.

That said you make a good case.
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Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4426 on: December 19, 2021, 12:10:32 PM »
Benji if the Democratic party has awful policy, awful results, awful regressive ideas mixed in a cocktail of authoritarian wokism then the only real option for any voter are the Republicans. I wish that weren't  the case but the way of American politics is if one pushes the other pulls. If one isn't working, vote for the other. It's a constant back and forth. Unfortunately it's time to vote Republican. Maybe without Trump as leader they can do a better job!

One thing I can tell you is I've never, in my 30+ years of living seen so many black people sick and tired of the Democrats to the point of considering Republicans. Never. Even in NY. Black people are bombarded every day with images of the vax and while I support the vaccine the concern is genuine and earned given the history. Then tie in mandates for jobs when many of these jobs overwhelmingly affect many people of color. Black voters helped hold the fort down and many of us are sick. I've never seen so many black people in my life openly anti Dem as I'm seeing right now and I love it.  :jawalrus

https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-approval-rating-fallen-most-black-adults-pew-1638502

:whew

Mandates :disgust
« Last Edit: December 19, 2021, 01:52:20 PM by Himu »
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tiesto

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4427 on: December 19, 2021, 02:41:51 PM »
The problem with the NY Democrats is they embody all the stereotypes of regulatory excess that people have of the party nationwide. Their regulations tend to be arcane and questionable (it's like that one desert town in Nier), most in place to suck any penny it can out of a business - it was perfectly fine last summer to have massive, unmasked protests... but god forbid a restaurant stay open past 10! A small business runs out of hand sanitizer on a job site? Major fines!

That being said, considering I have a moderate heart condition, I personally prefer to err on the side of caution instead of a free-for-all like Florida or Texas. And Lee Zeldin, the Republican candidate for Governor, is a huge Trump bootlicker, antivaxxer, antimasker - just an all-around awful person, he's been my district rep for years now. Trust me, even with how awful the Dems have been, Zeldin is worse.

And as for mask/vaxx mandates, a majority of NYers tend to support them. Due to have some big $$ federal contracts, my job made the vaxx and masks when not at desks mandatory at the beginning of Dec - we're one of the largest private/non healthcare/non education employers on (definitely much more conservative) Long Island, and back in Oct when the email about the mandate went out, something like 96% were already vaccinated. And even the healthcare facilities haven't had to let go nearly the amount of people they were expecting to not comply with the vaxx mandate... Northwell Health, the island's largest healthcare system, which has 60k employees, only let 1400 go for failing to comply.

https://auburnpub.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/ny-voters-support-mask-covid-19-vaccine-mandates/article_62f74d84-8f49-5039-961b-60c41f1d728c.html
« Last Edit: December 19, 2021, 02:46:47 PM by tiesto »
^_^

benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4428 on: December 19, 2021, 02:53:28 PM »
The problem is that I think that whatever good Republicans can achieve by simply being opposition to Democrats will be undermined by Trumpism. The only person in the GOP with any kind of status who didn't knuckle under to Trump was Mitt Romney. Ted Cruz could have stood up for movement conservatives and the Evangelicals that made up his primary base and tried to frame an internal constraint on Trump, but instead he immediately kissed the ring. Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell fell all over themselves to get Trump "wins" that went against years of conservative principles. Even in the case of judges, which was the most successful part of the four years of Trump, many of those appointed were simply shitbags with no experience rather than principled conservative judges or originalists or whatever else you'd expect. And this was all despite the fact that Trump didn't really care about any of the specifics in any of this. When they were trying to "repeal and replace" Obamacare some actual conservative opposition to the bill popped up and Trump told them he didn't care about "the little shit, only the big picture" and just wanted something, anything passed that would let him claim he repealed Obamacare and instituted a great superior Trumpcare. (And even at this, they failed.)

The reform plan the party was coalescing around after the 2012 results is dead except for the bad parts. Free trade? Out. Immigration reform? Instead we got zero tolerance, illegal bans, malicious prosecution and pursuit of "the wall" on the wrong border. Budget and debt controls? Gone, he surpassed even Bush on this front and Bush at least had the excuse of the wars he started. A truce on the culture wars? Instead the social moderate Trump did everything possible to amplify them and appointed plenty of fervent nutsos on this. (Although some of this has backfired, Goursch writing gender identity into anti-discrimination laws for example, ACB so far refusing to go along with Alito's social conservatism. Even if Dobbs is a "win" by upholding Mississippi's law, I don't think they're going to touch Roe/Casey. I could be wrong though!) Foreign policy? All over the place, some was actually good, most of it bad and counterproductive to stated goals, never ended the drone wars. Withdrawing from the Iran deal, setting up Afghanistan to fail, etc. Respect for the institutions and constitution? lol, to use just a single example, I'll point out that he targeted ACB as a traitor (to where she gets more death threats from Trumpists than Democrats still) just months after appointing her simply because she agreed with the law and precedent that the Supreme Court had no authority to intervene and overturn an election result in multiple states because Texas wanted it to.

I still don't think Trump is the worst President in history (I'm partial to Nixon) and as noted above I do think he did a few good things even if by accident but he was a unique aberration in terms of his political force. Nobody else can pick up his mantle and run with it. Nobody else can keep his unique base. The GOP is harming everything by continuing to be completely subservient to the man. Ryan and McConnell fucked up when they decided that was the "message" of 2016 but after 2020 and Jan 6th, the party had ample chance to challenge him and they mostly haven't.

It's early, but it's also funny, at the moment the only person it looks like can stand up to Trump is DeSantis. But he might actually be worse than another four years of Trump. Ideally, Trump stays out of 2024, doesn't endorse but also does turn on DeSantis and those two spend it fighting, opening a path for somebody more reasonable like Nikki Haley or Kristi Noem or Tim Scott, or god forbid, even Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio. That seems like the only likely prospect for the Republicans to come back from Trump at this point. I mean, other than him just keeling over sometime soon. But I imagine he'll be one of those types that just refuses to die despite so many reasons why he should. Like Strom Thurmond did.

Anti-Trump efforts that defect blindly to the Democrats (Lincoln Project, Jennifer Rubin) are useless. There needs to be strong anti-Trumpism within the Republican Party. But there isn't. Maybe something can center around Glenn Youngkin, if only to provide an outpost of opposition. But I thought the same about Ted Cruz and Rand Paul after 2016. Both became loyalists instead. (Rand was especially disappointing personally, and it's why I can't take him seriously on anything anymore.) Ryan and McConnell became loyalists. Kevin McCarthy ran to the front of the parade practically. Even Sarah Palin was more skeptical of Trump than these idiots.

The problem as it I see it is within what you note, the Republicans will gain simply because they're not Democrats. But that won't cast Trump out of control, if anything it may strengthen his hold. We'll have primaries where Trumpists win because he backs him, and then they go on to win general elections simply because they aren't Democrats. Trump will claim credit and victory and most of the party will continue to worship him despite the fact that it's not sustainable when he does leave the scene after 2024.

edit:
And Lee Zeldin, the Republican candidate for Governor, is a huge Trump bootlicker, antivaxxer, antimasker - just an all-around awful person, he's been my district rep for years now. Trust me, even with how awful the Dems have been, Zeldin is worse.
This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. A socially moderate, reasonable conservative can win New York. Especially when Democrats suck. (And everything about Kathy Hochul indicates that she sucks.) That was George Pataki (and before him Nelson Rockefeller) for three terms! Rudy and Bloomberg did the same in NYC proper. There's similarly politically strong Republican Governors in deep blue Massachusetts and Maryland right now. But a Trumper can't do this. And right now, Republicans seem to accept only Trumpers.

Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4429 on: December 19, 2021, 03:05:07 PM »
The problem with the NY Democrats is they embody all the stereotypes of regulatory excess that people have of the party nationwide. Their regulations tend to be arcane and questionable (it's like that one desert town in Nier), most in place to suck any penny it can out of a business - it was perfectly fine last summer to have massive, unmasked protests... but god forbid a restaurant stay open past 10! A small business runs out of hand sanitizer on a job site? Major fines!

That being said, considering I have a moderate heart condition, I personally prefer to err on the side of caution instead of a free-for-all like Florida or Texas. And Lee Zeldin, the Republican candidate for Governor, is a huge Trump bootlicker, antivaxxer, antimasker - just an all-around awful person, he's been my district rep for years now. Trust me, even with how awful the Dems have been, Zeldin is worse.

And as for mask/vaxx mandates, a majority of NYers tend to support them. Due to have some big $$ federal contracts, my job made the vaxx and masks when not at desks mandatory at the beginning of Dec - we're one of the largest private/non healthcare/non education employers on (definitely much more conservative) Long Island, and back in Oct when the email about the mandate went out, something like 96% were already vaccinated. And even the healthcare facilities haven't had to let go nearly the amount of people they were expecting to not comply with the vaxx mandate... Northwell Health, the island's largest healthcare system, which has 60k employees, only let 1400 go for failing to comply.

https://auburnpub.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/ny-voters-support-mask-covid-19-vaccine-mandates/article_62f74d84-8f49-5039-961b-60c41f1d728c.html

I'm not saying to have a free for all. We were doing good. New Yorkers try to do the best thing for us. We got vaccinated for our own safety without much behest. This past summer was freedom. You could go to a restaurant and pig out and not show a vax card because it's assumed through good faith that you, as a New Yorker, in a city with a 70% vaccination rate, already got at least one jab. Numbers were down, endless fun at parks (especially Washington Square), things were good! And then they demanded mandates. You need to have a vaccination for your job. You need to show your vaccination card to go inside this business even if you're wearing a fucking mask. It caused unnecessary division in a city that was doing well and healing good. It has completely split communities.

There's a line between Texas "I don't give a fuck" and where we are now in NY and NY used to be that nice middle ground that was juuuust right. I personally blame Biden and his horrific policies. The NY Democrats right now are horrendously overstepping, overreacting, and overregulating.

As said in the Covid thread, the Guv issued a State of Emergency with three measly Omicron cases even BEFORE the current spike (which, to my knowledge, isn't even Omicron!). This hysteria, overreacting, and fear porn from the top of the state brass is completely unnecessary and reflects the weakness in the current administration and state politicians. They need to be voted out.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2021, 03:17:14 PM by Himu »
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benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4430 on: December 19, 2021, 03:19:36 PM »

benjipwns

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Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4432 on: December 19, 2021, 03:30:50 PM »
The problem is that I think that whatever good Republicans can achieve by simply being opposition to Democrats will be undermined by Trumpism. The only person in the GOP with any kind of status who didn't knuckle under to Trump was Mitt Romney. Ted Cruz could have stood up for movement conservatives and the Evangelicals that made up his primary base and tried to frame an internal constraint on Trump, but instead he immediately kissed the ring. Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell fell all over themselves to get Trump "wins" that went against years of conservative principles. Even in the case of judges, which was the most successful part of the four years of Trump, many of those appointed were simply shitbags with no experience rather than principled conservative judges or originalists or whatever else you'd expect. And this was all despite the fact that Trump didn't really care about any of the specifics in any of this. When they were trying to "repeal and replace" Obamacare some actual conservative opposition to the bill popped up and Trump told them he didn't care about "the little shit, only the big picture" and just wanted something, anything passed that would let him claim he repealed Obamacare and instituted a great superior Trumpcare. (And even at this, they failed.)

The reform plan the party was coalescing around after the 2012 results is dead except for the bad parts. Free trade? Out. Immigration reform? Instead we got zero tolerance, illegal bans, malicious prosecution and pursuit of "the wall" on the wrong border. Budget and debt controls? Gone, he surpassed even Bush on this front and Bush at least had the excuse of the wars he started. A truce on the culture wars? Instead the social moderate Trump did everything possible to amplify them and appointed plenty of fervent nutsos on this. (Although some of this has backfired, Goursch writing gender identity into anti-discrimination laws for example, ACB so far refusing to go along with Alito's social conservatism. Even if Dobbs is a "win" by upholding Mississippi's law, I don't think they're going to touch Roe/Casey. I could be wrong though!) Foreign policy? All over the place, some was actually good, most of it bad and counterproductive to stated goals, never ended the drone wars. Withdrawing from the Iran deal, setting up Afghanistan to fail, etc. Respect for the institutions and constitution? lol, to use just a single example, I'll point out that he targeted ACB as a traitor (to where she gets more death threats from Trumpists than Democrats still) just months after appointing her simply because she agreed with the law and precedent that the Supreme Court had no authority to intervene and overturn an election result in multiple states because Texas wanted it to.

I still don't think Trump is the worst President in history (I'm partial to Nixon) and as noted above I do think he did a few good things even if by accident but he was a unique aberration in terms of his political force. Nobody else can pick up his mantle and run with it. Nobody else can keep his unique base. The GOP is harming everything by continuing to be completely subservient to the man. Ryan and McConnell fucked up when they decided that was the "message" of 2016 but after 2020 and Jan 6th, the party had ample chance to challenge him and they mostly haven't.

It's early, but it's also funny, at the moment the only person it looks like can stand up to Trump is DeSantis. But he might actually be worse than another four years of Trump. Ideally, Trump stays out of 2024, doesn't endorse but also does turn on DeSantis and those two spend it fighting, opening a path for somebody more reasonable like Nikki Haley or Kristi Noem or Tim Scott, or god forbid, even Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio. That seems like the only likely prospect for the Republicans to come back from Trump at this point. I mean, other than him just keeling over sometime soon. But I imagine he'll be one of those types that just refuses to die despite so many reasons why he should. Like Strom Thurmond did.

Anti-Trump efforts that defect blindly to the Democrats (Lincoln Project, Jennifer Rubin) are useless. There needs to be strong anti-Trumpism within the Republican Party. But there isn't. Maybe something can center around Glenn Youngkin, if only to provide an outpost of opposition. But I thought the same about Ted Cruz and Rand Paul after 2016. Both became loyalists instead. (Rand was especially disappointing personally, and it's why I can't take him seriously on anything anymore.) Ryan and McConnell became loyalists. Kevin McCarthy ran to the front of the parade practically. Even Sarah Palin was more skeptical of Trump than these idiots.

The problem as it I see it is within what you note, the Republicans will gain simply because they're not Democrats. But that won't cast Trump out of control, if anything it may strengthen his hold. We'll have primaries where Trumpists win because he backs him, and then they go on to win general elections simply because they aren't Democrats. Trump will claim credit and victory and most of the party will continue to worship him despite the fact that it's not sustainable when he does leave the scene after 2024.

edit:
And Lee Zeldin, the Republican candidate for Governor, is a huge Trump bootlicker, antivaxxer, antimasker - just an all-around awful person, he's been my district rep for years now. Trust me, even with how awful the Dems have been, Zeldin is worse.
This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. A socially moderate, reasonable conservative can win New York. Especially when Democrats suck. (And everything about Kathy Hochul indicates that she sucks.) That was George Pataki (and before him Nelson Rockefeller) for three terms! Rudy and Bloomberg did the same in NYC proper. There's similarly politically strong Republican Governors in deep blue Massachusetts and Maryland right now. But a Trumper can't do this. And right now, Republicans seem to accept only Trumpers.

You make good points especially towards DeSantis, who is nightmare fuel.

My personal picks are Nicki Haley and Tim Scott but I'm concerned about Haley's record.

Have you seen this in Bloomberg?

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-12-01/it-s-marco-rubio-versus-nikki-haley-in-republican-battle-over-socialism-lite
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benjipwns

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Uncle

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4435 on: December 20, 2021, 08:39:54 AM »
is it just me or are a lot of traditionally "ratio'd" people and positions no longer getting ratio'd on twitter

did twitter get more lax on conservative takes or did conservatives learn to play by the rules and not get banned?

is this like a post-parler thing where they stopped trying to have their own space

or is it all russian bots

 ???
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HaughtyFrank

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4436 on: December 20, 2021, 07:00:24 PM »
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1473005054445731848



Anytime you think the world can't get dumber...

Great Rumbler

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4437 on: December 20, 2021, 07:14:08 PM »
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1473005054445731848



Anytime you think the world can't get dumber...

Imagine being the sort of person that likes this kind of thing. :notlikethis
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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4438 on: December 21, 2021, 01:32:04 AM »
Benji if the Democratic party has awful policy, awful results, awful regressive ideas mixed in a cocktail of authoritarian wokism then the only real option for any voter are the Republicans.
You think the negatives of the Republican platform are less bad than COVID overreaction?

No. After living in super progressive NY I've cooled on many Democratic platform issues and really don't identify with left politics beyond healthcare, housing, and a few other issues.

That isn't to say I entirely agree with the Republicans but right now I disagree with Democratic leadership and agree with the Republican arguments against that leadership. I have no affiliation and my services can be bought at any time. I do not think either party is capable of fully representing my interests so I will vote for the party that does at any one point. Currently Democrats are overreacting to COVID and turning into authoritarian Nancy's that are overly triggered by opinions they disagree with. So I'll vote against them. Either way, I'm participating in a country whose sins are many and whose interests go against mine. Therefore I might as well place my vote up for the highest bidder at any time rather than committing to a select group.

You call it COVID overreacting, I call it fear porn, authoritarian rules, safety over liberty, and destroying the social contract between governance and the populace. Mandates severely go against my morals. I truly believe in a person's ability to choose.

Of the Democratic platform what has Biden's agenda done for black Americans? Black Americans did better under Trump. I might as well consider alternatives. Since Democrats and Republicans neither care I might as well pick which party at one point suits my self preservation and morals. American politics are a push pull. A pendulum swing.

Even if I agree with Democrats wanting better healthcare, supporting that also means I have to support their feminist and LGBT agendas by proxy that go against Islam and racial victimhood narratives that push the country as a social hierarchy. At the end of the day they're both racist warmongering parties operating on greedy capitalistic tendencies. You take the good with the bad.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2021, 01:54:12 AM by Himu »
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benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4439 on: December 21, 2021, 01:53:27 PM »
Is this post about the caustic effect of his personal qualities or about the broader reactionary forces he capitalized on? A lot of your post focuses on quislings in the GOP but I don't know if I agree that Trump, the man, is here to stay. He's genuinely deplatformed (does/will Fox even book him?). If he runs again then everyone has to cover him but there's a good chance he doesn't and the party relegates him to honored speaker status. Overall I agree there's no going back, just disagreeing on the certainty of Trump's personal involvement in all this.
While I think Trump's personal influence is not going to last much past 2024 he is not as deplatformed as you think. He has a fairly strong network that ensures his stupid press releases get all over Twitter anyway for example. He makes lots of personal calls to people in power (this has always been how he's operated) and while Fox is mildly touchy about him specifically, OANN/Newsmax is not and both have been growing extensively because of this. Donald Trump Jr. has no problem getting on Fox and part of it is that Trump himself is still pissed at Fox for calling Arizona and the Presidency for Biden. He thought their news wing was as devoted to him as the opinion wing is.

That said, my point there was a bit less about Trump's personal power over the party and more about the fact that the GOP as is, and probably through 2024 (Trump running, winning or losing) at least does not seem to have an alternative to Trump. If Trump today decided he was done and was going to just retire the party would be utterly derelict but still within his influence because of all the people who have reidentified themselves as Trump loyalists plus everyone who has gotten into office on the basis of just being Trumpers. The party does not seem to have any alternative prepared for this possibility even though we pretty much know that by the time 2024 passes they will have to or collapse into nonsense infighting for an extended period.

Before Trump you had the different power bases, the neocons, the America First people, the Evangelicals, the economic conservatives/libertarians, etc. Trump shoved this all aside for loyalty to himself. Many of those power bases don't exist as they did and won't be coming back. The Koch's for example are dying off and in any case pulled up stakes and gave up on the GOP. Long time institutions like Heritage have fallen apart and been shredded. Maybe these are good things, but they certainly seem to be negatives for the Republicans. The old farm leagues are decimated and have been replaced by Twitter/Facebook MAGA stars like MTG, Boebert, etc. (This last part does seem to be fairly bipartisan however I think the GOP has gotten the worst of this otherwise positive development.) As much as people suspected, probably correctly, that these groups would have strong influence in the Trump Administration and how Pence (someone who came up in those farm leagues) would be doing most of this, that changed as the Administration went on and Trump started throwing out everyone (even otherwise loyalists like Jeff Sessions) that Pence put into the Administration and propping up his loyalists instead. By the end, Trump was doing things like not just ignoring his own State Department (which he had done from the start, but then many Presidents do this for personal diplomacy) but having incompetent people like Rudy Giuliani instead run alternative diplomatic policy for Trump's personal gain. Trump himself had fallen into the cult.

In other words, the further and longer into Trump they go, the more they're hollowing out the party. One that it's easy to forget had pre-Trump just came off the 2014 elections where it borderline ran the table and would have faced Hillary in 2016 anyway. Maybe I'm wrong, but the party just doesn't seem as strong now as it was then. (Not that the Democrats seem very strong either, they are at least not yet a cult.)