USA Politics Thread |OT| Son of a bitch!

[Himu]

Disagree. Third parties are not viable. In America we have a two party system. If Biden isn't correct, Trump obviously is. Currently Republicans are the only people in the country fighting mandates on a wide level. Sure, there's libertarians but the Libertarian Party is a joke of a joke and not viable. Republican is the only choice besides not voting. It's A, B, C, D, Benji.

Went to Trump Tower today and it was pretty cool and friendly. Bought a certain red hat.

You're conflating two things. Electoral strategy and personal ideology are obviously not the same thing. You didn't make a statement about Democrats and Republicans. You argued that "liberalism" had failed and the only choices left were "leftism" and "conservatism" which meant you had to choose conservatism. This continues to be false. Eluding this by pointing to partisan electoral politics is not a response.

In any case, the Republicans are probably not a viable party in New York if they cling to MAGA (or conservatism even in a Reaganite form) and are especially not in New York City outside of Staten Island. The mandates are not going to turn people into single-issue voters even if you have personally become one over them.

Republicans run things in Staten Island, many parts of southern Brooklyn (especially Coney Island). Then there's entire areas like Suffolk County (Long Island). This map doesn't even include east of a specific point where it gets far more blood red.



As for the state itself,

Being Republican in NY state is extremely viable. The Democratic stranglehold is only fairly recent and Republicans are mounting an offense. There were many upsets this past election due to lower Dem turnout and Republicans are slated to gain even more momentum.

The idea that because NY is a blue state that means there's no avenues for Republicans is false, and a myth. You fell for it hook, line, and sinker. We are literally neighbors with NJ, the same state that almost marginally flipped from blue to red in 2021 just last month. You think I'm the only one flipping?

Niagara Falls report.

https://news.yahoo.com/top-10-big-republican-turnout-224600442.html

NY Times reports: "N.Y. Democrats Assess Losses to Republicans: ‘This Was a Shellacking’"

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/03/nyregion/republican-election-results-new-york.html

2016 state map.



Being Republican in NY nets you many opportunities. The great thing about NY is that Democrats have power and they can't go too far because much of the state votes Republican. The Republicans act as a check. But now with all these mandates the Democratic Party has gone beyond the threshold and they need to be punished thoroughly.

The idea that NY is like California and a Democratic bastion is a media myth. Thanks for falling for it? Long Island and Queens is a great place to get a house to be honest and where I plan on setting up roots.

[benjipwns]

Land doesn't vote.

[benjipwns]

Other kween:

https://twitter.com/mtgreenee/status/1476215613798322176

[tiesto]

Disagree. Third parties are not viable. In America we have a two party system. If Biden isn't correct, Trump obviously is. Currently Republicans are the only people in the country fighting mandates on a wide level. Sure, there's libertarians but the Libertarian Party is a joke of a joke and not viable. Republican is the only choice besides not voting. It's A, B, C, D, Benji.

Went to Trump Tower today and it was pretty cool and friendly. Bought a certain red hat.

You're conflating two things. Electoral strategy and personal ideology are obviously not the same thing. You didn't make a statement about Democrats and Republicans. You argued that "liberalism" had failed and the only choices left were "leftism" and "conservatism" which meant you had to choose conservatism. This continues to be false. Eluding this by pointing to partisan electoral politics is not a response.

In any case, the Republicans are probably not a viable party in New York if they cling to MAGA (or conservatism even in a Reaganite form) and are especially not in New York City outside of Staten Island. The mandates are not going to turn people into single-issue voters even if you have personally become one over them.

Republicans run things in Staten Island, many parts of southern Brooklyn (especially Coney Island). Then there's entire areas like Suffolk County (Long Island). This map doesn't even include east of a specific point where it gets far more blood red.

(Image removed from quote.)

As for the state itself,

Being Republican in NY state is extremely viable. The Democratic stranglehold is only fairly recent and Republicans are mounting an offense. There were many upsets this past election due to lower Dem turnout and Republicans are slated to gain even more momentum.

The idea that because NY is a blue state that means there's no avenues for Republicans is false, and a myth. You fell for it hook, line, and sinker. We are literally neighbors with NJ, the same state that almost marginally flipped from blue to red in 2021 just last month. You think I'm the only one flipping?

Niagara Falls report.

https://news.yahoo.com/top-10-big-republican-turnout-224600442.html

NY Times reports: "N.Y. Democrats Assess Losses to Republicans: ‘This Was a Shellacking’"

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/03/nyregion/republican-election-results-new-york.html

2016 state map.

(Image removed from quote.)

Being Republican in NY nets you many opportunities. The great thing about NY is that Democrats have power and they can't go too far because much of the state votes Republican. The Republicans act as a check. But now with all these mandates the Democratic Party has gone beyond the threshold and they need to be punished thoroughly.

The idea that NY is like California and a Democratic bastion is a media myth. Thanks for falling for it? Long Island and Queens is a great place to get a house to be honest and where I plan on setting up roots.

Well, Suffolk elected Trump by under 250 votes... which is a drop in the bucket considering we're one of the most populous counties in the country (1.46 million). The Trump fans here are a very loud, barely majority - you'll see like 10 protestors ad nauseum in front of some of the government buildings here and the corner by the bagel shop I go to.

If you want to move to Suffolk, though, you might like the Stony Brook area (I grew up and live near there) - large state university, decent restaurant scene (lots of Asian restaurants have opened in the past 10 years for instance), 1.5 hours to the city by train/1 by car, near a big mall and lots of big box stores. There's also the Patchogue area, which was pretty dumpy when I was growing up but radically reinvented itself as a new urbanist dream over the last few years - expensive apartments, lots of bars, and a ton of rowdy drunk 20 year olds. If you're interested I could give you a run-down on LI places to move to/places to avoid, based on what you're looking for.

Some things to keep in mind about the island - houses are really expensive and taxes are absolutely ridiculous. There aren't a whole lot of options beyond single-family homes, and most of the construction is from the 60s and 70s; newer mcmansion style will run you at least 700k at the minimum, and brand-new homes are just not a thing anywhere but on the forks (due to it being so built up). Due to the lack of townhouses and apartments, their prices are higher relative to the rest of the country - my ex was paying $1k for a converted garage studio apt. And you'll need a car to get a lot of places (we have buses and the LIRR but there's a lot of places lacking in access to either), even basic necessities like grocery shopping and entertainment.

[Himu]

I'm considering Queens over LI anyways.

Queens is beautiful and the houses are more affordable. Every time I go to Queens I end up thinking,"this place is the spot!" Feels like a place to set some roots.

Pictures from Trump Tower.



The MAGA hat.



Went back to my apartment wearing my hat. Some of the reactions I got were amazing. One black guy did a double take, stared at me and kept screaming,"they hate you, THEY HATE YOU!" I just laughed. I asked one cop if I was near the 5 train because it had been a while since I went to that part of 5th avenue (I knew it was on 59th) and his face was startled and confused at first. Most people ignored me. The fellas at the Trump Tower, which was full of very good people, gave me a thumbs up and gave me confidence to wear it home rather than keep it tucked in the bag. I really felt camaraderie at Trump Tower. I didn't feel judged like I do online. I felt I could express myself freely. No one was racist. I wasn't the only black person or minority period. It was just full of people enjoying their day, eating at a nice, fancy restaurant or taking in the sights while shopping or taking selfies. Everyone was masked, including me. I really enjoyed my time there. Later I made a stop before heading home and didn't feel judged by the other people despite me wearing a MAGA hat. We laughed and got on really well.

I had a good time. It really struck a nerve that my blackness doesn't matter that much but my character. The people I met in line were also black. You'd think they'd judge me but I let them have my space in line (it was a mother and daughter) because I was raised to be a gentleman. For so long I've limited myself or defined myself through my blackness. Perhaps it's time to shed that aspect of myself. I am a person who happens to be black, not a black person. I was already sick and tired of blackness as it is and how so many people define themselves through so this was a nice step forward. Blackness truly is boring as I wrote before.

Best part of Trump Tower is they didn't ask if I was vaxxed. Finally some normalcy in this pit of totalitarianistic horse crap.

[Uncle]

This is what my conservative Republican state is getting up to these days:

https://twitter.com/zittrain/status/1476231700644569091

Every day I'm thankful to not be in school anymore.

I would systematically request that every book in every school library be removed to bury everyone in red tape and also potentially make $$$$$

hell yes

The term cobra effect was coined by economist Horst Siebert based on an anecdote of a (possibly ahistorical) occurrence in India during British rule.[2][3][4] The British government, concerned about the number of venomous cobras in Delhi, offered a bounty for every dead cobra. Initially, this was a successful strategy; large numbers of snakes were killed for the reward. Eventually, however, enterprising people began to breed cobras for the income. When the government became aware of this, the reward program was scrapped. When cobra breeders set their now-worthless snakes free, the wild cobra population further increased.[5]

[Himu]

Good on Oklahoma. I wish the law weren't too strict as it can be abused. Just keep it to certain topics.





That said, good on Oklahoma for protecting our nations children and away from adult-based agendas and overt mental illness. Good job, Oklahoma GOP.

[Himu]

Protect us, guvs

[benjipwns]

Nate Silver making himself look stupid again:
https://twitter.com/jessesingal/status/1476350997178064897

[Great Rumbler]

Good on Oklahoma. I wish the law weren't too strict as it can be abused. Just keep it to certain topics.





That said, good on Oklahoma for protecting our nations children and away from adult-based agendas and overt mental illness. Good job, Oklahoma GOP.

lmao okay bruh

[Rufus]

No moral compass, just 100% with whoever makes you feel good at the moment.

[Himu]

[Himu]

No moral compass, just 100% with whoever makes you feel good at the moment.

Nah. Both parties are evil. Both bomb brown people and Muslims. Both are racist. Both support the drug war. Both support Israel apartheid. Both support funneling weapons to terrorists. However, we have only two real choices. So if you want to participate you have to choose. To me, vaccine mandates go against my morals. Democrats and liberals and progressives and leftists love limiting speech, actions, liberty, and personal freedom. So right now I'll support GOP. Since neither party are for me, I will vote for my best option at any one time.

The options in America are: 1. be a party loyalist (), 2. don't vote and don't participate, 3. Swing!, 4. vote third party. If you come to the conclusion that neither party is truly good, you will start to vote for which aligns closer to your values. Vaccine mandates, firing people for not taking a vaccine, totalitarian virtue signaling, speech and thought control, giving illegal immigrants the ability to vote, and decades of failing to promise black Americans go against my moral compass. I did better under Trump! So I might well as well flip. This 2+2=4 and perfectly logical. You're just too in your emotions to see it.

When I articulate my disgust with vaccine mandates I am shamed by the liberal flock. Taking away someone's job is utterly depraved especially during a time of high job shortages. Rather than have an opportunity to swing me to their side, they shame like they always do. Therefore this shows our moral compass is actually very different and not worth aligning with.

Also, living in NYC has shown me liberal policies do not work. Being a progressive in a red state is like being Alice in Wonderland: a dream, nothing more. At the end of the day you're just a judgemental European. I don't care what you think.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/09/briefing/swing-voters-us-elections.html

[Occam]

You know what really pisses of libruls? Nazis.
This what you should get next:

Lots of camaraderie, too.
With this, your new friends will love you even more!

[Himu]

You know what really pisses of libruls? Nazis.
This what you should get next.
(Image removed from quote.)
Lots of camaraderie, too. You'll love it!

In the four years of Trump as President no one came for me and I lived in Texas. It was all media fear tactics.

I wonder which is more like the Nazi's:

1. A media that defends and pushes your agenda - lgbtq, feminism, endless ads on vaccines (I'm pro-vaxxed and even I feel like I'm being programmed in NYC. Will the next vaccine ad feature nothing but black people again??), endless fear (Omicron! Winter of death!)

2. Your ilk controls speech. I can't even say taco or distinguished mentally-challenged on this website. Control, control, control in the name of keeping others "safe". Once you notice it, it's impossible not to notice.

3. Any minority knows white liberals and white leftists treat us like trash if you hold any opinion outside of their orthodoxy. They deem people different from them utterly incapable.

4. Left people are lacking morality. I've always spoke out how I HATE how they will piss on someone's grave. Take a recent death in Lowtax for example. An orgy of salivating leftists gyrating over the fact someone they didn't like died. "It's okay, he was a piece of shit" ignoring that celebrating someone's death - especially by suicide, yikes - makes you pretty shitty too. At least I am open to my flaws. Leftists deem themselves moral paragons. These are the people that think they're more moral. You call everyone else Nazi's while laughing at the deaths of your opponents. Hard to take your claims seriously when you regularly dehumanize any viewpoint not your own.

Yet everything that you disagree with is Nazism. At this point what isn't Nazism?

Everything about leftists and the leftist platform is about control. If you don't think homeless people should be able to shoot up on the subway then obviously you don't care about them. See? Using an emotional appeal. To do what? Control and guilt and shame. Vaccine mandates? To control your body. Vaccine cards for entry? Controlling your actions through shame. "Vaccinated and caffeinated!" Endless virtue signaling to show your superior ways to control, to silence, to guilt, to shame. You make me sick. If you don't agree with us and our methods then you're obviously on the wrong side.

Who really, are the real Nazis?

Aren't you another Euro? Like I expect you to understand Americans or American issues.

[Himu]

A year ago you were blue no matter who, a year before that you were all about being a gun owning GOP diehard, I'm sure by the next election cycle you'll be cycled back to "wow Republicans actually suck, vote DEM!!!!!!!!" and pretend like none of these posts were ever made

I really regret going blue no matter who. I was so wrong. I felt pressured into it despite loathing Hillary, loathing Biden, loathing Kamala. For years I've voted against what I felt was right because of the looming "Nazi threat". They reward Americans with vaccine mandates and terminating vulnerable citizens. No more. I'll join the other side. I put my faith in the Democratic Party and they return it with totalitarianism. You don't understand that me going blue no matter who is precisely WHY I am doing this. Since I, in the past, gave up my personal disregard for Democrats and put my faith in them, why should I continue to reward them? In the past year every single conspiracy theory lobbied by Trumpers turned out to be true. Vaccine mandates. Vaccine passports. Vaccine chips!

Your entire point is self defeating and precisely why this is necessary. I've been logical this entire time. You simply lack the mental effort or empathy to understand it.

A few years back I felt I was doing what I felt was right by getting with Republicans. I only halted it because of Trump and social pressure. Now I realize I should have stayed with them all along.

The best part about vaccine mandates and other mandates is how it reveals how right the conservatives were this entire fucking time about liberals. Now they've gone full mask off and I thank them for that.

From AnnCoulter.com

As Stan Evans says, whatever liberals disapprove of, they want banned (smoking, guns, practicing Christianity, ROTC, the Pledge of Allegiance) and whatever they approve of, they make mandatory (abortion-on-demand, gay marriage, pornography, condom distribution in public schools, screenings of “An Inconvenient Truth”).

When liberals say, “nothing is sacrosanct,” they mean “nothing other Americans consider sacrosanct is sacrosanct.” They demonstrate their open-mindedness by ridiculing other people’s dogma, but will not brook the most trifling criticism of their own dogmas.

https://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2014/03/04/5-ways-liberals-try-to-control-you-n1803689

Thank Fuck someone speaking sense after months of mandates and hyperdrive liberalism and ineffectual policy masquerading as safety protocol. Get fucked. Conservatism is the only answer.

You cannot control me any longer, liberal.

[Great Rumbler]

I can't even say taco or distinguished mentally-challenged on this website.

this time the libs have gone too far

[Cryo]

As Stan Evans says, whatever liberals disapprove of, they want banned (smoking, guns, practicing Christianity, ROTC, the Pledge of Allegiance) and whatever they approve of, they make mandatory (abortion-on-demand, gay marriage, pornography, condom distribution in public schools, screenings of “An Inconvenient Truth”).

When liberals say, “nothing is sacrosanct,” they mean “nothing other Americans consider sacrosanct is sacrosanct.” They demonstrate their open-mindedness by ridiculing other people’s dogma, but will not brook the most trifling criticism of their own dogmas.

https://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2014/03/04/5-ways-liberals-try-to-control-you-n1803689

Thank Fuck someone speaking sense after months of mandates and hyperdrive liberalism and ineffectual policy masquerading as safety protocol. Get fucked. Conservatism is the only answer.

abortion-on-demand

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/19/politics/texas-abortion-heartbeat-ban/index.html

gay marriage

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/states-across-u-s-still-cling-outdated-gay-marriage-bans-n1137936

condom distribution in public schools

https://theworld.org/stories/2012-03-07/abstinence-only-education-bill-passes-utah-senate

screenings of “An Inconvenient Truth”

https://bookriot.com/texas-book-ban-list/

Of course, The Hunger Games isn’t listed, and neither is Battle Royale. After all, stories about kids killing each other doesn’t cause students “discomfort,” but a book that mentions a character’s gay uncle is apparently scarring.

A lot of what you've been posting since returning seems to be you equating the internet to real life and also highlighting the general progression of [whatever group you want to call "not-liberals"] is waging against education, deeming it "brainwashing," in an effort to get "complacent" populaces entirely fueled by "fuck y'all, got mine" and squeezing as much profit from our country and our planet as they can before wiping their hands of what future generations will experience, doubly enforced by also passing laws preventing them from being held responsible.

My next reply will be when you have returned from your next self-imposed exile where you tell us you have left conservatism.  Hope you have a great new years weekend.

[Himu]

Education? My main ire is mandates. They go against liberty and are immoral.

Conflating internet with real life? I'm pretty sure if I step outside my door I'll be greeted with a rainbow flag or something or maybe some ad about how you can help your lgbt child. Where the hell do you think I live? This is everywhere I go.



Everywhere I go is some agenda.

Treating every single part of life as a fucking ad.



"Conflating the internet with real life?"

Let's not forget Faceboook Covid banners. I AM BOOSTED! Or t-shirts advertising you're proudly vaccinated and therefore better than everyone. And let's not forget signs like VACCINATED AND CAFFEINATED. It's endless virtue parade. Vaccinations for liberals, because of the politics they're linked to, have gone from something health related to a status symbol no different than the latest iPhone. The fact it's COMMUNISTS that don't get it always makes me lose my shit.



See ya then.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

they are trying to program us

[close]

[Propagandhim]

https://twitter.com/JudiciaryGOP/status/1476629444869693441

lol...

[Himu]

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/s7568

Lol

Adding CDC to the list?

[Himu]

https://twitter.com/TODAYshow/status/1476166916347736065

[Great Rumbler]

It's gotta be tough having to see rainbow flag and a sign on how to correctly wear a mask every day.

[Himu]

https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/the-2022-reckoning/?utm_source=recirc-mobile&utm_medium=homepage&utm_campaign=hero&utm_content=related&utm_term=first

It's gotta be tough having to see rainbow flag and a sign on how to correctly wear a mask every day.

It's about layers. This is one layer. But controlling speech is another. Liberals tell what is and isn't right to say. Controlling thought is another. It's fine if you're pro-vax but if you're anti-mandate then you're obviously a Nazi, which leads to control through shame and guilt tripping through emotional appeal - the final layer. It's all done for one solitary reason: control. We're right. You're wrong. Control. We control what's permissable and what's okay in society and if you disagree you're a bigot. Control. We control the language and what can and can't be said and if you don't like it you're a bigot. Control. So they lose their shit about Dave Chappelle talking about racist progressive LGBT people and try to cancel him. They find out Chris Pratt is conservative and Christian so they turn on him too. It may seem an innoceous sign about public health but imagine seeing it every day for a fucking year. Control through capitalism and ideology.

The left are the greater evil. The only options are to go further left, into leftism, which isn't an option because they support this type of thought, speech, and action policing. The only option is conservatism because they're the only people in society fighting it.

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

Everywhere I go is some agenda.

Treating every single part of life as a fucking ad.

The MAGA hat.

(Image removed from quote.)

Went back to my apartment wearing my hat.

From AnnCoulter.com

As Stan Evans says, whatever liberals disapprove of, they want banned (smoking, guns, practicing Christianity, ROTC, the Pledge of Allegiance) and whatever they approve of, they make mandatory (abortion-on-demand, gay marriage, pornography, condom distribution in public schools, screenings of “An Inconvenient Truth”).

When liberals say, “nothing is sacrosanct,” they mean “nothing other Americans consider sacrosanct is sacrosanct.” They demonstrate their open-mindedness by ridiculing other people’s dogma, but will not brook the most trifling criticism of their own dogmas.

Surely you can see that this is, as they call it, false equivalency?
Just as you can - and should - apply cui bono to statements, you can also apply cui malo to ask 'what is the harm'?
The liberalism you profess to despise recognises the rights of people up to the point it infringes on someone elses rights.

Who is harmed by, to use one of those examples, abortion being legal (and sidenote: it's not fucking mandatory)? How are they harmed?
People who believe it is morally wrong cannot enforce that belief onto others who may not share that belief.

Who benefits? How do they benefit?
People unwilling or incapable of supporting a life they will be responsible for for the next 18+ years. They won't be risking their life in a backstreet abortion clinic. They won't be forced into a marriage of convenience, or give up their career, or add to the welfare debt, or add another unwanted child to the thousands already in care, or bring an unloved child into the world.

As a society, which of these actually accrues harm? Someones fee-fees are hurt, versus the state picking up another mouth to feed?

Can you not see the difference?
Christian Scientists believe all medicine is immoral, because sickness comes from God and God alone should cure it.
Do you see the difference between;
Allowing Christian Scientists to refuse medical treatment, even where they may die as a result, because to impose that treatment upon them infringes on their right to believe what they want?
and
Enforcing Christian Scientists belief that medical treatment is immoral on all citizens and making doctors and hospitals illegal, because allowing anyone to be treated goes against those beliefs?

[benjipwns]

The left are the greater evil. The only options are to go further left, into leftism, which isn't an option because they support this type of thought, speech, and action policing. The only option is conservatism because they're the only people in society fighting it.

Still a false choice.

[Himu]

The left are the greater evil. The only options are to go further left, into leftism, which isn't an option because they support this type of thought, speech, and action policing. The only option is conservatism because they're the only people in society fighting it.

Still a false choice.

What are the choices? Name them please.

Leftism isn't a choice. They support vaccine mandates at the expense of workers and treat workers just as expendable as the capitalists they criticize.

Libertarians are anti mandate and the most sensible people in the room besides MAGAts and since so many libertarians vote Republican for ideological reasons you might as well go MAGA.

Not voting against such tyranny isn't an option either. What are my options, Green? I'm pro-vaccine.

[benjipwns]

There are Marxists who are opposed to social studies warriors and COVID hysteria. Nothing precludes them from voting Republican for a cycle, especially in a local race, if they determine these are the dominant issues of the moment and a Republican candidate has the best take on them.

It is nonsense for libertarians to "might as well go MAGA" considering they oppose most of the MAGA agenda like its founding principle of complete opposition to free trade and freedom of movement. Its increasing hostility to liberal principles like the rule of law, freedom of speech and the press, etc. are also troublesome to where they weigh heavily against, not for, "might as well go MAGA."

[Himu]

There are Marxists who are opposed to social studies warriors and COVID hysteria. Nothing precludes them from voting Republican for a cycle, especially in a local race, if they determine these are the dominant issues of the moment and a Republican candidate has the best take on them.

It is nonsense for libertarians to "might as well go MAGA" considering they oppose most of the MAGA agenda like its founding principle of complete opposition to free trade and freedom of movement. Its increasing hostility to liberal principles like the rule of law, freedom of speech and the press, etc. are also troublesome to where they weigh heavily against, not for, "might as well go MAGA."

Mind expounding about Marxists against social studies warriors?

Also do you have libertarian literature I can read? What are some libertarians thoughts on the liberal tendency to throw money at social ills and force their creedo on the entire populace?
 
All of this I've communicated are things I've had in my head for months so I've had no filter.

[BIONIC]

Also do you have libertarian literature I can read?

[Himu]

Also do you have libertarian literature I can read?

(Image removed from quote.)

I have my copy at home! Always ready to peruse his amazing English diction.

Who knew you liked classic lit, Bionic? Proud of you.

[Himu]

https://reason.com/2021/09/01/vaccines-are-good-vaccine-mandates-from-the-government-are-bad/

Libertarians are true Patriots against liberal dogma.

[benjipwns]

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1477000469318885385

[Himu]

Okay, hypocritical commie.

[Himu]

I started talking to libertarians to see how they think and reading their literature, Benji. 😒 So far they talk a lot more sense than liberals and progressives while also not being as crazy as Republicans.

Benji trying to save me with reason and logic and not finger pointing

https://np.reddit.com/r/Libertarian/comments/rt3iji/im_coming_here_as_a_friend_to_try_to_understand/

[Potato]

Do I see a himu/Benji libertarian love in blossoming on the battlefield?

The bore was not ready for this level of power!

We need Nintex back to balance out the streams, stat!

[Himu]

Do I see a himu/Benji libertarian love in blossoming on the battlefield?

The bore was not ready for this level of power!

We need Nintex back to balance out the streams, stat!

I'm ready

[Uncle]

don't stand so close to me

[Himu]

SIX.

FEET!

[Great Rumbler]

Okay, hypocritical commie.

She dining outside with her boyfriend, sitting about six feet away from each other and not near anyone else, so I dunno why so many right wingers are freaking out.

[Himu]

Okay, hypocritical commie.

She dining outside with her boyfriend, sitting about six feet away from each other and not near anyone else, so I dunno why so many right wingers are freaking out.

Same difference as Cruz bailing on Texas during crisis. I see no difference. Two rich fucks that virtue signal and talk about this, that but when push comes to shove Cruz is flying to the Bahamas like an elitist shithead during Texas snowstorms and AOC is in Miami during the Age of Omicron and NYC is getting ravaged with cases. Even if Omicron is weak as shit it's still a local emergency. I waited an hour in the cold for a COVID test only for them to close while I was in it as she dines in luxury because she's a rat bitch. Same shit, different team.

[benjipwns]

Same difference as Cruz bailing on Texas during crisis. I see no difference. Two rich fucks that virtue signal and talk about this, that but when push comes to shove Cruz is flying to the Bahamas like an elitist shithead during Texas snowstorms and AOC is in Miami during the Age of Omicron and NYC is getting ravaged with cases. Even if Omicron is weak as shit it's still a local emergency. I waited an hour in the cold for a COVID test only for them to close while I was in it as she dines in luxury because she's a rat bitch. Same shit, different team.

What are Ted Cruz and AOC, a Senator and a Congresswoman respectively, supposed to be doing about ongoing local emergencies? Especially when their bodies are not in session?

[Himu]

Same difference as Cruz bailing on Texas during crisis. I see no difference. Two rich fucks that virtue signal and talk about this, that but when push comes to shove Cruz is flying to the Bahamas like an elitist shithead during Texas snowstorms and AOC is in Miami during the Age of Omicron and NYC is getting ravaged with cases. Even if Omicron is weak as shit it's still a local emergency. I waited an hour in the cold for a COVID test only for them to close while I was in it as she dines in luxury because she's a rat bitch. Same shit, different team.

What are Ted Cruz and AOC, a Senator and a Congresswoman respectively, supposed to be doing about ongoing local emergencies? Especially when their bodies are not in session?

I completely agree. However AOC herself shamed Cruz. Hence the criticism. She's doing the exact same thing and going by her own standards has earned the same critique.

By liberal virtue signaling she managed to get pants caught on fire. 😔

[Himu]

Benji

[Himu]

Benji, query:

One of my biggest  niggles against libertarians has been their anti-tax rhetoric. I understand it but what do they suggest we replace taxes with? After all they fund important things such as public transport, bridges, healthcare. What's their alternative? I'm currently on state funded healthcare and I receive very good services. Is the anti-tax rhetoric not similar to leftists utopian ideals? A problem with liberalism/progressivism is that so much of it is hope based. "Wouldn't it be nice if....?" is basically their platform. I'm reading the Libertarian Party website now and taxes are the first issue listed on the platform. In what way is this not "wouldn't it be nice if there were no taxes?" Are libertarians going off of real world examples to produce results for their arguments or are they like the leftists and basing everything off of laughable emotions, and theory, and what ifs, and envisioning a future, and the political equivalent of being a LARPer?

[Uncle]

Benji, query:

One of my biggest  niggles against libertarians has been their anti-tax rhetoric. I understand it but what do they suggest we replace taxes with? After all they fund important things such as public transport, bridges, healthcare. What's their alternative? I'm currently on state funded healthcare and I receive very good services. Is the anti-tax rhetoric not similar to leftists utopian ideals? A problem with liberalism/progressivism is that so much of it is hope based. "Wouldn't it be nice if....?" is basically their platform. I'm reading the Libertarian Party website now and taxes are the first issue listed on the platform. In what way is this not "wouldn't it be nice if there were no taxes?" Are libertarians going off of real world examples to produce results for their arguments or are they like the leftists and basing everything off of laughable emotions, and theory, and what ifs, and invisioning a future, and the political equivalent of being a LARPer?

one of my friends claims to be libertarian and was talking about it a lot at new years tonight

he said he gets annoyed that everyone immediately jumps to the conclusion that he must be a right wing nut; he is a left-leaning libertarian (which is clearly valid based on the political compass) and he said he has absolutely no issue with tax, he just wants it to be put toward more worthwhile causes

for example he hates that so much of his tax dollars go towards incarceration for minor marijuana possession offenses, hundreds of thousands of dollars per person per year without accomplishing anything but ruining a person's life further

depending on the state and the legality of marijuana, you move across a state line and suddenly your tax dollars are going to much more productive causes

now maybe this perspective valuing the role of taxes is unique among libertarians, I just mention it due to the synchronicity of the question with the conversation we just had

[Himu]

As I wait for the train to go to work at 4 am on New Years Day I am perusing some very interesting thoughts posted on r/libertarian that challenge many views and thoughts I have on libertarians.

Governor Jared Polis (D) of Colorado is the most libertarian governor in the country

That's right, the Democrat Jared Polis is the most libertarian. Not Greg Abbott, not Ron Desantis. Search Abbott and Desantis on this sub, the headlines are always about expanding government, taking away freedom. Now search Jared Polis, he's always on this sub for something libertarian he did wether it's related to drugs, criminal justice or pandemic restrictions. He's also a frequent poster of r/neoliberal because he's a capitalist, he donated to the primary challenger of Ilhan Omar. He supported shontel Brown over democratic socialist Nina Turner in the primary. He is always supporting the capitalist Democrats over the socialist Democrats. When he was in Congress he was the only Democrat member of the Liberty Caucus, the libertarian caucus founded by Justin Amash.

Conclusion: after study, the OP is correct. His record speaks for itself. Another consideration is that fervently campaigns against socialists and leftists. Good.

In a thread about Libertarian attitudes towards Lincoln:

The fact there are a ton of people in this comment section saying that Lincoln overstepped his bounds because the south would've outlawed slavery at some point "peacefully"(what a joke), or that it was infringing on the constitution basically confirms OPs title for this discussion thread.

Basically the epitome of 'don't tread on me, but tread on them all you like that's ok with me.'

In my experience a strong majority of people who identify as libertarian don't give a flying fuck about protecting the liberties of others and of stopping persecution of oppressed groups. For a big group its nothing more than 'don't touch my paycheck, don't touch my guns, don't touch my property' and they'll happily sign up for oppression of others if they get their demands me.

Freedom for me, not freedom for thee.

It is truly unfortunate that for too many libertarians, that in the face of bondage, the adage is often “do nothing, it will eventually work itself out, freedom.”

I believe libertarians inability to use pragmatism in the face of mass societal strife shows an inability to actually help solve or improve issues, resulting in a passive acceptance. It is hard to convince someone to be a libertarian once you dig past the weed and gay marriage talking points and see the responses to issues like slavery or pandemics. People want to know how their individual lives can improve under certain systems, not know if they were unlucky enough to be born into bondage their fate would be left up to if their master decides to be peaceful.

Conclusion: I'm really impressed so far by, although this is just Reddit, but also people like Benji's, ability to discuss and not shame other viewpoints. Also I'm impressed that libertarians are able to self critique in a way Democrats or Republicans often don't. With them it's always the other side and not themselves. I would or could attribute this to party lines and it's because Libertarian Party lacks real power but that doesn't change that Progressives and Leftists don't have power and still are entirely unable to self critique.

Libertarianism also appears to have lots of room for diversity. Some don't even place taxes as a priority, factoring into the above Uncle post.

I hate people who become libertarian because they don’t want taxes. That has nothing to do with libertarianism. Low taxes is a side effect of libertarian policy over time, not a policy itself.

Libertarians still can accept taxes because we still want government that works for us. Libertarians can also acknowledge the few times the other side got it right with a social program and there’s lots of evidence to support its working.

Government isn’t one size fits all. I just want to start from a libertarian perspective. That way the burden of proof is on the aggressor. In this case I think Lincoln more than proved he was justified.

So far I'm impressed by libertarianism literature and views. Unlike liberalism or progressivism it also appears to be intellectially cogent (i.e liberalism is about pushing society. How much is too much?) while lacking conservatisms social rigidity (I.e. I agree being LGBT is a sin but I have no desire to discriminate against LGBT people by law). I'm intrigued. I'll keep reading Stoic philosophy while considering these revelations. Honestly, the libertarians are making the most sense in the room. It appears just because you believe in Libertarianism that you don't need to support the party either.

[Himu]

https://news.yahoo.com/york-says-prioritize-non-white-171224095.html

Identity politics

Liberals and progressives

Liberals: we need to get more incentive to and concentrate on getting black and Latino populations vaccinated by making certain races more eligible to the vaccine!

Black and Latino populations that are vaccine skeptical and see it as a big science experiment on minorities: Wait we are being deliberately targeted?!

Reset Era in real life

[VomKriege]

https://news.yahoo.com/york-says-prioritize-non-white-171224095.html

Identity politics

Liberals and progressives

Liberals: we need to get more incentive to and concentrate on getting black and Latino populations vaccinated by making certain races more eligible to the vaccine!

Black and Latino populations that are vaccine skeptical and see it as a big science experiment on minorities: Wait we are being deliberately targeted?!

Reset Era in real life

It's about the treatments, not the vaccine. Those are in scarce supplies and I think eligibility is treated on demand from a patient/their consulting MD. I don't think a general hesitancy from some demographics is really relevant. Actually it might be a way to counterbalance hesitancy (alongside a studied, established trend of worst health outcomes for minorities in the US) to at least make sure they get access to post treatments in priority.

Those exact same guidelines exist in other states and that controversy about anti white racism is weeks old at that point. I guess you can take exception to that though it really reads more like a weighted variable in whatever formula they use to triage demands.

[Kurt Russell]

You know what really pisses of libruls? Nazis.
This what you should get next:
(Image removed from quote.)
Lots of camaraderie, too.
With this, your new friends will love you even more!

....but I thought Himu was trying to step away from socialism, not embrace it?

[Propagandhim]

https://news.yahoo.com/york-says-prioritize-non-white-171224095.html

Identity politics

Liberals and progressives

Liberals: we need to get more incentive to and concentrate on getting black and Latino populations vaccinated by making certain races more eligible to the vaccine!

Black and Latino populations that are vaccine skeptical and see it as a big science experiment on minorities: Wait we are being deliberately targeted?!

Reset Era in real life

Okay, I read the memo and I'm with you on this one: this is absurd.  A risk factor defined simply on the basis of race is complete lunacy.    A multivariate risk score to prioritize individuals by risk on multiple characteristics is what you'd think they'd do to apportion a finite amount of resources.  It seems wrong to make white people meet a higher threshhold req simply on the basis of their race.   Unless there are biological differences between the races that affect how they respond to this virus, I don't see how this is even constitutional.   I'm open to having my mind changed, but...yeah.

[Himu]

https://news.yahoo.com/york-says-prioritize-non-white-171224095.html

Identity politics

Liberals and progressives

Liberals: we need to get more incentive to and concentrate on getting black and Latino populations vaccinated by making certain races more eligible to the vaccine!

Black and Latino populations that are vaccine skeptical and see it as a big science experiment on minorities: Wait we are being deliberately targeted?!

Reset Era in real life

It's about the treatments, not the vaccine. Those are in scarce supplies and I think eligibility is treated on demand from a patient/their consulting MD. I don't think a general hesitancy from some demographics is really relevant. Actually it might be a way to counterbalance hesitancy (alongside a studied, established trend of worst health outcomes for minorities in the US) to at least make sure they get access to post treatments in priority.

Those exact same guidelines exist in other states and that controversy about anti white racism is weeks old at that point. I guess you can take exception to that though it really reads more like a weighted variable in whatever formula they use to triage demands.

Prioritizing medical acts via race is absurd.

[Himu]

https://news.yahoo.com/york-says-prioritize-non-white-171224095.html

Identity politics

Liberals and progressives

Liberals: we need to get more incentive to and concentrate on getting black and Latino populations vaccinated by making certain races more eligible to the vaccine!

Black and Latino populations that are vaccine skeptical and see it as a big science experiment on minorities: Wait we are being deliberately targeted?!

Reset Era in real life

Okay, I read the memo and I'm with you on this one: this is absurd.  A risk factor defined simply on the basis of race is complete lunacy.    A multivariate risk score to prioritize individuals by risk on multiple characteristics is what you'd think they'd do to apportion a finite amount of resources.  It seems wrong to make white people meet a higher threshhold req simply on the basis of their race.   Unless there are biological differences between the races that affect how they respond to this virus, I don't see how this is even constitutional.   I'm open to having my mind changed, but...yeah.

Imagine laws like that.

Then you see this every goddamn day on your commute every day for a year.



Watch these videos. Look how many are black people or latinos. Minorities are being specifically targeted. You see this on some video display next to a bus stop.

Notice how they're almost all black.













After months and months and months it might start to seem like an agenda. Rumbler dismisses it as "oh it's just a sign about masks!" NO. THAT'S ONE LAYER OF IT. And that's just one law I posted. Imagine you saw this daily for almost two years. What would you think? What would your opinion of liberalism be?

Someone please vote the Democrats out.



This is why I said being a liberal in a red state is pretty easy. You do not have regular acts that make you question your viewpoints. It's pretty easy to see how someone would become a Communist in this environment, right? Or a conservative for that matter.

[Cauliflower Of Love]

:

[Uncle]

I will say on the matter of ads all featuring black people/minorities: that is the majority of media/ads now

and I'm not complaining about it like "omg bring back the nuclear hetero white family to my advertising," I'm just saying, that's how things are now, and it's not surprising that these ads would follow the same trend

[bork]

Watch these videos. Look how many are black people or latinos. Minorities are being specifically targeted. You see this on some video display next to a bus stop.

Notice how they're almost all black.

You left one out from that "why I got vaccinated" series:



And then this one has people of different races in it.



It's almost as if NYC is a giant melting pot, with a lot of minorities, and they're putting out videos featuring people of different races and ethnic groups. I see they put out videos in multiple languages, too.  Perhaps there is a larger focus on minorities here because they have data showing that some groups are less vaccinated than others?  I dunno. 

[Cauliflower Of Love]

I will say on the matter of ads all featuring black people/minorities: that is the majority of media/ads now

and I'm not complaining about it like "omg bring back the nuclear hetero white family to my advertising," I'm just saying, that's how things are now, and it's not surprising that these ads would follow the same trend

these ads are about under represented and vulnerable sectors of society. Not a trend but a focused demo

[Great Rumbler]

Liberals are making me do a MAGA because ads

[Cauliflower Of Love]

If himu (he-mu lol) was being serious he'd talk about

you can have whatever you like

i want joe biden, give me joe biden,

[Himu]

Liberals are making me do a MAGA because ads

If you think that's the summation of my points I will not be addressing you further. You aren't worth engaging with.

I will say on the matter of ads all featuring black people/minorities: that is the majority of media/ads now

and I'm not complaining about it like "omg bring back the nuclear hetero white family to my advertising," I'm just saying, that's how things are now, and it's not surprising that these ads would follow the same trend

This is a focused demographic.