Author Topic: USA Politics Thread |OT| Son of a bitch!  (Read 484430 times)

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Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4740 on: January 03, 2022, 02:48:10 PM »
I'm super cool with dehumanizing dangerous morons. Their "opinions" are worth less than hot dogshit on a sidewalk.

Okay.

IYKYK

Occam

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4741 on: January 03, 2022, 02:50:33 PM »
I'm super cool with dehumanizing dangerous morons. Their "opinions" are worth less than hot dogshit on a sidewalk.

Anti-vaxxers kill people. Dogshit presumably doesn't, unless you smear it into an open wound and then refuse treatment with modern medicine. Kind of what anti-vaxxers are doing. Smearing dogshit into the heads of others and rejecting modern medicine.
504

Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4742 on: January 03, 2022, 02:54:01 PM »
Anti-vaxxers kill people. Dogshit presumably doesn't, unless you smear it into an open wound and then refuse treatment with modern medicine. Kind of what anti-vaxxers are doing. Smearing dogshit into the heads of others and rejecting modern medicine.

If you wear masks but choose not to get the vaccine are you really killing people?

Vaccinated people get and transfer the virus. Many of us have been living recklessly and without masks, spreading Covid. Are we also murderers?

You sound pretty insane.

IYKYK

Coffee Dog

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4743 on: January 03, 2022, 03:26:26 PM »
Anti-vaxxers kill people. Dogshit presumably doesn't, unless you smear it into an open wound and then refuse treatment with modern medicine. Kind of what anti-vaxxers are doing. Smearing dogshit into the heads of others and rejecting modern medicine.

If you wear masks but choose not to get the vaccine are you really killing people?

It's easier to get infected with the virus if you aren't vaccinated, so it definitely helps spread the thing around to others. Hard to spread it if you don't get infected.

Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4744 on: January 03, 2022, 03:26:46 PM »
yes

Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4745 on: January 03, 2022, 04:04:21 PM »
Anti-vaxxers kill people. Dogshit presumably doesn't, unless you smear it into an open wound and then refuse treatment with modern medicine. Kind of what anti-vaxxers are doing. Smearing dogshit into the heads of others and rejecting modern medicine.

If you wear masks but choose not to get the vaccine are you really killing people?

It's easier to get infected with the virus if you aren't vaccinated, so it definitely helps spread the thing around to others. Hard to spread it if you don't get infected.

NY state puts a massive hole in that theory given our vaccinated rate and current case numbers.

Technically, aren't most people murderers in a pandemic? I find that argumentation unconvincing.

Furthermore, most unvaccinated people I know are black and skeptical. They don't think Bill Gates put 5G in it. They don't think it was curated as a science experiment on minorities. They're just skeptical. Given the rising cases they're even more skeptical. They wear masks and try to stay safe and don't consider the virus to be a hoax but the left who claims to fight for minority voices tells them to get fucked. Both sides indeed.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2022, 04:09:11 PM by Himu »
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stufte

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4746 on: January 03, 2022, 04:13:53 PM »
I don't care what color you are. If you are skeptical, talk and LISTEN to your doctor, and take action accordingly. If you won't listen to reason you're a detriment to civilized society and can get fully fucked.

Coffee Dog

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4747 on: January 03, 2022, 04:18:09 PM »
Anti-vaxxers kill people. Dogshit presumably doesn't, unless you smear it into an open wound and then refuse treatment with modern medicine. Kind of what anti-vaxxers are doing. Smearing dogshit into the heads of others and rejecting modern medicine.

If you wear masks but choose not to get the vaccine are you really killing people?

It's easier to get infected with the virus if you aren't vaccinated, so it definitely helps spread the thing around to others. Hard to spread it if you don't get infected.

NY state puts a massive hole in that theory given our vaccinated rate and current case numbers.

I didn't state a theory. It's easier to get infected when you're unvaccinated.

Potato

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4748 on: January 03, 2022, 04:22:33 PM »
Anti-vaxxers kill people. Dogshit presumably doesn't, unless you smear it into an open wound and then refuse treatment with modern medicine. Kind of what anti-vaxxers are doing. Smearing dogshit into the heads of others and rejecting modern medicine.

If you wear masks but choose not to get the vaccine are you really killing people?

It's easier to get infected with the virus if you aren't vaccinated, so it definitely helps spread the thing around to others. Hard to spread it if you don't get infected.

NY state puts a massive hole in that theory given our vaccinated rate and current case numbers.

Technically, aren't most people murderers in a pandemic? I find that argumentation unconvincing.

Furthermore, most unvaccinated people I know are black and skeptical. They don't think Bill Gates put 5G in it. They don't think it was curated as a science experiment on minorities. They're just skeptical. Given the rising cases they're even more skeptical. They wear masks and try to stay safe and don't consider the virus to be a hoax but the left who claims to fight for minority voices tells them to get fucked. Both sides indeed.
So, they're not avoiding the vaccine because they believe in conspiracies, they're just avoiding it because of "reasons".

I think I prefer the conspiracy nuts. At least they are being fooled by misinformation rather than just actively harming themselves and others by being sceptical for no apparent reason.
Spud

Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4749 on: January 03, 2022, 04:30:33 PM »
No apparent reason.

Not only are you condescending but you're badly informed. :lol
IYKYK

Potato

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4750 on: January 03, 2022, 04:36:27 PM »
If I'm badly informed, it's your fault. That post was literally based on your information.
Spud

Beezy

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4751 on: January 03, 2022, 05:31:45 PM »
Anti-vaxxers kill people. Dogshit presumably doesn't, unless you smear it into an open wound and then refuse treatment with modern medicine. Kind of what anti-vaxxers are doing. Smearing dogshit into the heads of others and rejecting modern medicine.

If you wear masks but choose not to get the vaccine are you really killing people?

It's easier to get infected with the virus if you aren't vaccinated, so it definitely helps spread the thing around to others. Hard to spread it if you don't get infected.

NY state puts a massive hole in that theory given our vaccinated rate and current case numbers.

Technically, aren't most people murderers in a pandemic? I find that argumentation unconvincing.

Furthermore, most unvaccinated people I know are black and skeptical. They don't think Bill Gates put 5G in it. They don't think it was curated as a science experiment on minorities. They're just skeptical. Given the rising cases they're even more skeptical. They wear masks and try to stay safe and don't consider the virus to be a hoax but the left who claims to fight for minority voices tells them to get fucked. Both sides indeed.
And most unvaccinated black people I know do believe all these conspiracies around the vaccine. Some wear masks, some don't. Some don't even want to get tested. There's no one popular viewpoint amongst unvaccinated black people, even just in NYC.

NY state's numbers are because of the new omicron variant. NY state's hospitals are still okay so far because vaccinated people are fighting off COVID without needing to go to the hospital. Early in the pandemic before there was a vaccine that wasn't the case. I'm sure you know this since you moved here during that time.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2022, 06:10:36 PM by Beezy »

Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4752 on: January 03, 2022, 05:59:28 PM »
Honestly, reading some libertopian literature, the pandemic has made an excellent case for libertarianism which is funny because at the start of this I read things like "There's no Libertarian in a Pandemic." Whoopsie on that.

Pros of the libertarian position:

- correctly recognizes the power that government has

- correctly recognizes that government should be limited albeit with a guiding hand

- personal liberty is the most important aspect in society. Are we really free without liberty?

- plastic ideology. I can think badly of drug addicts while also thinking drugs should be decriminalized and no one should be punished for what they personally consume. I can think doing LGBT acts is sinful but also believe they should have the liberty toive the lives they want to live without judgement. Non-Muslims should let Muslim women allowed to wear hijab, niqab, and burqa if they want to. So much for liberte' eh, France?

- because it is ideological plastic it also has no real ideology beyond live and let live and no coercion outside of NAP. You can be a left libertarian or right libertarian. Everyone wins!

- because of this it's a good ideological framework outside of the two party system

- rather than blindly accepting other perspectives libertarians appear more than most to question the short term and long term effects of policy than either Democrats or Republicans who tend to be too tuned into their base.

- by extension, libertarians more than any politicial group I've seen love debating perspectives and understanding perspectives.

- because it's not stuck in ideology the libertarian perspective allows freedom outside of the two party system. I can vote for both democrsts and Republicans depending on where they are on the Freedum scale rather than for party.

Negatives of the libertarian position:

- the party is in complete disarray when more Americans could use a third option than ever

- because it is ideologically plastic anyone can claim to be libertarian. It's common for libertarian ideology to be ransacked by conservatives. Ted Cruz claims to be a libertarian but often goes against LGBT people in bigoted policy and flexes authoritarian Christian theology down tax payers' throats all while flying a Gadsden flag. This is problematic.

- because it's plastic this means there's no guiding light in it. Freedom means something different for everyone and that's a problem for libertarians.

- many libertopians tend to grab one to a key issue like say taxes or weed and take it to such an extreme that it's the only issue they care about and fuck everyone else's freedom. White conservative libertarians are notorious at this.

- because there's no fail safe list of beliefs for libertarianism it could probably never go mainstream because you need a common core principles to enact lasting cbange to convince the regular folk

- libertarianism bas garnered a bad name. Things like Bioshock characterize it as freedom run amock. People regularly blast and mock Ayn Rand writing. It's labeled as for college grads and stoners.

All in all pretty interesting with some notable negatives. Still appears to be worth looking into.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2022, 06:15:39 PM by Himu »
IYKYK

Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4753 on: January 03, 2022, 06:12:37 PM »
Anti-vaxxers kill people. Dogshit presumably doesn't, unless you smear it into an open wound and then refuse treatment with modern medicine. Kind of what anti-vaxxers are doing. Smearing dogshit into the heads of others and rejecting modern medicine.

If you wear masks but choose not to get the vaccine are you really killing people?

It's easier to get infected with the virus if you aren't vaccinated, so it definitely helps spread the thing around to others. Hard to spread it if you don't get infected.

NY state puts a massive hole in that theory given our vaccinated rate and current case numbers.

Technically, aren't most people murderers in a pandemic? I find that argumentation unconvincing.

Furthermore, most unvaccinated people I know are black and skeptical. They don't think Bill Gates put 5G in it. They don't think it was curated as a science experiment on minorities. They're just skeptical. Given the rising cases they're even more skeptical. They wear masks and try to stay safe and don't consider the virus to be a hoax but the left who claims to fight for minority voices tells them to get fucked. Both sides indeed.
And most unvaccinated black people I know do believe all these conspiracies around the vaccine. Some wear masks, some don't. Some don't even want to get tested. There's no one popular viewpoint amongst unvaccinated black people, even just in NYC.

NY state's numbers are because of the new omicron variant. NY state's hospitals are still okay so far because vaccinated people are fighting off COVID without needing to go to the hospital. Early in the pandemic before there was a vaccine there wasn't the case. I'm sure you know this since you moved here during that time.

Agreed fully the conspiracy theorists are out there. My main contention is labeling all of them in this category or not taking their concerns seriously. At the end of the day I'm still not convinced that forcing people to get vaccinated or risk getting fired is the way to fight vaccination rates. I think it is horribly ineffective and callous. These are people that don't trust government so the governments answer is to...force them to get vaxxed or risk their jobs? It's...uh, not smart or logical in any manner lol. It's liberals coercing others to their bidding and further divides an already divided populace.
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benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4754 on: January 03, 2022, 06:48:54 PM »
But this isn't just a business related situation. The government is mandating that all citizens get vaccinated. Say whatever you want but a government entity mandating a medical procedure is just wrong, full stop. I find it to be equivocally the wrong solution. Where's the line? What else can the government mandate me to do if they don't want me to have control over my body? If the vaccine worked to the point where it outright prevents Covid, I could see it. But it doesn't! It just gives your immune system a boost on the off chance you get it so you can hopefully fight it better so comparisons to things like Measles vaccination mandates don't work tit for tat either.

Essentially the state is requiring the populace to have our bodies altered on a maybe. A what if.
It's probably worth noting that no level of the government has yet mandated vaccination. OSHA's requirement does not mandate vaccination, may not be constitutional and doesn't apply to everyone anyway. Local public health measures restricting access are not requirements to get vaccinated and I'm not sure they can get much tighter before the courts interfere, they already have on meaningless things like religious services for example. That said, Jacobson has been the law of the land for over a century. Vaccine mandates may be ineffective public policy, but they aren't new and aren't stretching the bounds of established police powers.

On the other hand, we also have Republican states and localities engaging in efforts to promote non-vaccination including banning private parties from establishing vaccine requirements and by directly paying people for not getting vaccinated and rescuing public officials like police officers who leave localities because they refuse to get vaccinated. This is bad public policy with no clear benefit. It's probably also unfortunately not unconstitutional nor is bad public policy new either.

Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4755 on: January 03, 2022, 06:57:53 PM »
I've expressed my disgust with Republicans like Abbot and DeSantis mandating anti-mandates when it should be left to the business to make these choices. The Republicans are just as anti-freedom as the Democrats.

Good points on vaccine mandates and their current status. Thoughts on Key to NYC? Is that not a mandate? If no mandates are in place why do news sources continue to use that word and language?
IYKYK

benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4756 on: January 03, 2022, 07:12:05 PM »
Requiring vaccination for access to public accommodations is not mandating anyone get vaccinated. I may dislike the idea of disallowing unvaccinated people access to certain public accommodations by government fiat but being unvaccinated is not a recognized protected class even if people are born that way and others want to dehumanize them.

I can't tell you why the news media does anything at this point.

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4757 on: January 03, 2022, 07:45:48 PM »
Requiring vaccination for access to public accommodations is not mandating anyone get vaccinated. I may dislike the idea of disallowing unvaccinated people access to certain public accommodations by government fiat but being unvaccinated is not a recognized protected class even if people are born that way and others want to dehumanize them.

I can't tell you why the news media does anything at this point.

Fair enough but these things are often so essential to basic human life it feels like a mandate I'm terms of policy and language, especially after nearly two years of this.  So yeah, I don't like it even if it's not a true mandate. And if it's not a real mandate it feels like it's grooming the populace for a mandate in the future. I don't like it one bit.
IYKYK

Uncle

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4758 on: January 03, 2022, 07:54:26 PM »
All in all pretty interesting with some notable negatives. Still appears to be worth looking into.

it's weird to me to view this like shopping, holding up different fruits and looking for blemishes and choosing one to fully commit to, only to throw it out and choose a new one a few weeks later

I don't understand why anyone would willingly adopt any label for themselves because you're inviting so much baggage and immediate dismissal from others who have preconceptions about it

same reason nobody says "I am a gamer"

just embrace whatever ideologies sit best with you, if someone asks you what you are, you describe to them your positions and if they want to box you in and say "sounds like you're a libertarian," that's their decision, not yours
Uncle

Uncle

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4759 on: January 03, 2022, 07:57:28 PM »
Requiring vaccination for access to public accommodations is not mandating anyone get vaccinated. I may dislike the idea of disallowing unvaccinated people access to certain public accommodations by government fiat but being unvaccinated is not a recognized protected class even if people are born that way and others want to dehumanize them.

I can't tell you why the news media does anything at this point.

Fair enough but these things are often so essential to basic human life it feels like a mandate I'm terms of policy and language, especially after nearly two years of this.  So yeah, I don't like it even if it's not a true mandate. And if it's not a real mandate it feels like it's grooming the populace for a mandate in the future. I don't like it one bit.

I just don't like precedents that can be abused, like if trump gets re-elected and now thinks he has some basis to mandate ivermectin for everyone
Uncle

Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4760 on: January 03, 2022, 08:06:26 PM »
All in all pretty interesting with some notable negatives. Still appears to be worth looking into.

it's weird to me to view this like shopping, holding up different fruits and looking for blemishes and choosing one to fully commit to, only to throw it out and choose a new one a few weeks later

I don't understand why anyone would willingly adopt any label for themselves because you're inviting so much baggage and immediate dismissal from others who have preconceptions about it

same reason nobody says "I am a gamer"

just embrace whatever ideologies sit best with you, if someone asks you what you are, you describe to them your positions and if they want to box you in and say "sounds like you're a libertarian," that's their decision, not yours

You think it's about me picking something. To me it's about exploring my options to be an informed citizen on how to vote in a very rigid vote system. Also, this is America. No one votes 1:1 towards what they think. Small government conservatives vote GOP. A Communist like Shosta is a devout Democrat. If I'm to venture my options outside of the two party system needing to under libertarianism is necessary. Given my views I've already been labeled a libertopian on Reddit.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2022, 08:14:36 PM by Himu »
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benjipwns

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Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4762 on: January 03, 2022, 09:12:29 PM »
A Communist like Shosta is a devout Democrat.
I didn't pull the lever for Newsom during the recall :ufup

Good boy
IYKYK

benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4763 on: January 03, 2022, 09:54:59 PM »


these guys always gotta delete these :rage


chronovore

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4765 on: January 03, 2022, 11:50:31 PM »
Seems like the kind of viewpoint I'd expect from a college student, let alone a UCLA college student, let alone a Republican who is attending a high-priced four-year on their parents' dime, and doesn't want to acknowledge their privilege.

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4766 on: January 04, 2022, 03:24:31 AM »
The will of the people over rule of law? Lol what?
IYKYK

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4767 on: January 04, 2022, 10:37:13 AM »
Inconsistent responses, inconsistent methods. It's almost like government barely functions! Big government? Lmao why?

https://www.reddit.com/r/nycCoronavirus/comments/rva1ln/mta_employee_speaks_out_about_the_change_to_covid/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
IYKYK

Skullfuckers Anonymous

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Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4770 on: January 04, 2022, 02:04:55 PM »
Imagine being responsible  for saving the US from the brink of destruction twice in 20 years and getting bad ratings.

Beezy

  • Senior Member
Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4771 on: January 04, 2022, 07:21:31 PM »
Does that mean they'll release people currently locked up for non-violent crimes?

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4772 on: January 04, 2022, 07:33:24 PM »
https://twitter.com/PeterMoskos/status/1478456322483961857

Excellent policy. Good job. Hopefully Brooklyn next. There's been a mass effort from BK DA last year to cut down on sex work arrests as NYC works towards decriminalization of sex work which is a fantastic move and one that would make Jesus proud.
IYKYK

Uncle

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Uncle

Potato

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4774 on: January 04, 2022, 09:03:45 PM »
Who would have thought that people who get their news and political talking points from Twitter might be ill-informed?
Spud

benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4775 on: January 04, 2022, 11:00:11 PM »
College Republicans are the best:
[snip]
Real q, do you ever get essays like this? :lol
No, unfortunately. It would be pretty great if someone replied to a question asking how something operated by attacking the legitimacy of the institution though.

I'm not sure how I would respond.

benjipwns

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Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4777 on: January 05, 2022, 12:36:02 AM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ted-cruz-impeach-biden/2022/01/04/afc3f7ac-6da0-11ec-aaa8-35d1865a6977_story.html

Jeez so sick of the political witch hunts at this point from both sides instead of fighting for the people. Just fuck each other already.
IYKYK

benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4778 on: January 05, 2022, 01:11:31 AM »


 :usacry

benjipwns

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Himu

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Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4781 on: January 05, 2022, 05:44:03 PM »
dp
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Uncle

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4783 on: January 05, 2022, 06:55:46 PM »
https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1478758105999679490

I am not generally the type to rail against AOC, but I saw this particular tweet

first of all the tweet she's replying to is horrible and dumb, but the correct response to that is not further idiocy

to claim that there are no "low skill jobs" is to imply that every single job takes the exact same amount of skill to perform? because otherwise if some jobs require more skill than others, the ones that take less can be easily considered the lower skilled jobs by comparison

and everyone implicitly knows there are low skill jobs, because we've all done them, and as a society we tend to give them to people who currently lack skills such as teens

to have a "low skill job" is not an indictment of you as a person, nor does it entitle anyone to abuse you, devalue you, or disrespect the work you do...it's just a truthful classification of some forms of employment

if you want, you could call it a "high availability/low demand job," because it's all based on supply and demand...people trained for highly skilled professions like doctors are in shorter supply so that's a "low availability/high demand job" by comparison

and the jobs that are "high availability" -- Wal-Mart greeter -- are like that because the skill requirement is such that anybody in the world can do it



don't gaslight me  :doge
Uncle

Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4784 on: January 05, 2022, 07:08:00 PM »
The problem with Adams' statement wasn't the addition of "low skill" but when he said lacking academics or whatever. Many college grads do low skill jobs and many smart, creative people that never went to college work them too. Also many jobs are low skill but still hard working. There's not much skill in picking up packages at an Amazon warehouse. You just stack boxes. What makes it hard is the repetitive motion. She's being offended by the wrong part of the statement but hey, it's a new day so it's something new to be offended at.

I wonder what will offend her tomorrow? Likely not another mentally ill homeless person on the trains. :doge
« Last Edit: January 05, 2022, 07:13:26 PM by Himu »
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Madrun Badrun

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4785 on: January 05, 2022, 07:39:26 PM »
https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1478758105999679490

I am not generally the type to rail against AOC, but I saw this particular tweet

first of all the tweet she's replying to is horrible and dumb, but the correct response to that is not further idiocy

to claim that there are no "low skill jobs" is to imply that every single job takes the exact same amount of skill to perform? because otherwise if some jobs require more skill than others, the ones that take less can be easily considered the lower skilled jobs by comparison

It's not a claim that different jobs require different levels of skill.


to have a "low skill job" is not an indictment of you as a person, nor does it entitle anyone to abuse you, devalue you, or disrespect the work you do...it's just a truthful classification of some forms of employment

if you want, you could call it a "high availability/low demand job," because it's all based on supply and demand...people trained for highly skilled professions like doctors are in shorter supply so that's a "low availability/high demand job" by comparison

and the jobs that are "high availability" -- Wal-Mart greeter -- are like that because the skill requirement is such that anybody in the world can do it



don't gaslight me  :doge


It's exactly this and meant to be a reframing of the discussion of what 'low-skill' implies.  Economic terms are often used to obfuscate ethical and political positions.  If you live in a world where one's economic worth is their worth as a person, then a "low skill job" is an indictment of you as a person, and results in people abusing and taking advantage of you.  More importantly, it devalues your economic worth and is not just a reflection of it.  As we have seen with the recent 'labour' shortage, people are not as replaceable as people using the term 'low-skill' want to imply.  It wasn't long ago where people got away with using the term 'unskilled', again referencing it as just a fundamental economic truth.  The fact that these terms exist in economics does not mean that when people use these terms they are actually talking about economics. 
« Last Edit: January 05, 2022, 07:44:39 PM by Madrun Badrun »

Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4786 on: January 05, 2022, 07:47:19 PM »
Let's keep it a buck. Terminology and language means jack shit. Two years ago you were an essential worker, now you're a Terminated because you're not vaxxed. Turns out you weren't essential after all. Maybe the reason AOC's agenda doesn't win is because she spends too much time arguing bullshit.
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Uncle

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4787 on: January 05, 2022, 07:51:23 PM »
It's exactly this and meant to be a reframing of the discussion of what 'low-skill' implies.  Economic terms are often used to obfuscate ethical and political positions.  If you live in a world where one's economic worth is their worth as a person, then a "low skill job" is an indictment of you as a person, and results in people abusing and taking advantage of you.  More importantly, it devalues your economic worth and is not just a reflection of it.  As we have seen with the recent 'labour' shortage, people are not as replaceable as people using the term 'low-skill' want to imply.  It wasn't long ago where people got away with using the term 'unskilled', again referencing it as just a fundamental economic truth.  The fact that these terms exist in economics does not mean that when people use these terms they are actually talking about economics.

your economic worth is only tied to your worth as a person if you allow it to be

"you're fat and ugly so you're worthless" is just as invalid as "you don't have a high-paying job so you're worthless," your self-worth is something YOU decide internally



she says there are no low skill jobs which is why we have to value the people doing them because they really take so much skill, honest

I say there ARE low skill jobs but that is not an excuse to abuse the people doing them because those jobs will always exist and someone has to do them, and everyone deserves respect



her take is using a falsehood to try to say something nice, I'm saying embrace the truth and still choose to value people
Uncle

Uncle

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4788 on: January 05, 2022, 08:00:07 PM »
essentially, she is still wrapped up in the false viewpoint that your worth is tied to your skill level

rather than concluding that your worth shouldn't be tied to your skill level and working toward that end, she chooses to claim that everyone has a high skill level so therefore everyone has worth

like, can't we decouple these things?
Uncle

Madrun Badrun

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4789 on: January 05, 2022, 08:53:54 PM »
You are very much agreeing with the underlying philosophy of what she is arguing for but choosing an uncharitable interpretation of her words.  It's only her lying if you think she is making a claim about different jobs being incomparable (and thus equal) in skill, instead of a claim about how the term 'low skill' is used to devalue people.  It's pretty clear that it's the latter given 'is a myth perpetuated by wealthy interests ...'.  Again, the point is that 'low skill' is a term used to obfuscate the various ideas of demand, education, skill, etc. by using an economic term in order 'to justify inhumane working conditions, little/no healthcare, and low wages'.   

Pointing out that there are skills needed for waitressing or that valuable lessons were learned while doing it, is a way to get people to reevaluate the skills needed to do such jobs and to combat the idea that high availability means low-skill and thus low value.  It's not a claim that anyone who waitresses can be a doctor, but a claim that they should be valued (in that they deserve human working conditions, healthcare, and a livable wage), even though they are not a doctor. 


edit;  even if her tweet was literally 'A waitress is just as skilled as a doctor', it wouldn't mean that she thinks a waitress is just as practiced and educated and in demand as a doctor or that they work just as hard etc. 
« Last Edit: January 05, 2022, 09:10:19 PM by Madrun Badrun »

Uncle

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4790 on: January 05, 2022, 09:18:07 PM »
you're treating it like one of those "not all men" gotchas, "well of course when we said all men are raised as catcallers, we didn't mean ALL men, but methinks you protest too much"

not all corrections of poorly-phrased statements are uncharitable; sometimes the statement is just a bad one

don't say "low skill is a myth" if you don't mean it, especially released to the Twitter audience, good god

it would be incredibly easy to respond to the first tweet by (first of all) correcting the conflation of education level with the job one finds oneself in, and segueing from that false conflation to the other one that conflates skill level with whether you deserve abuse



the most charitable read would be the one that assumes as a politician, it ingratiates her more to her constituents to imply that she sees you (yes, you) as being highly-skilled

Quote
Pointing out that there are skills needed for waitressing or that valuable lessons were learned while doing it, is a way to get people to reevaluate the skills needed to do such jobs and to combat the idea that high availability means low-skill and thus low value.

high availability DOES often mean low-skill, and we should not combat this idea if it is true

but low-skill does not mean low value, this is the distinction that matters

you've got these things intrinsically linked just like she did, which is just not true, the fact that something is easy to do doesn't mean those doing it deserve abuse
« Last Edit: January 05, 2022, 09:29:22 PM by Uncle »
Uncle

Madrun Badrun

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4791 on: January 05, 2022, 09:42:03 PM »
You are absolutely right, sadly, there will be dumbasses who will misread what she meant, and so she should have really made herself clearer.  Like why invite the bad faith arguments?  Especially on twitter.  It's like 'defund the police': it's a good idea to keep the police in check, but I can't stand the marketing.  I don't get why people can't be completely clear and logical with their language, since language is really about conveying facts and logical propositions.  If everyone was just more clear in what they meant, these kinds of misunderstandings just would not happen.  It's honestly just stupidity when people don't do this.     

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4792 on: January 05, 2022, 09:55:43 PM »
Don't you think the medium (and people using that medium) is significantly to blame here?

Getting your political analysis 240 characters at a time and at 6000 miles per hour from people desperate for attention and clicks is a big problem.
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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4793 on: January 05, 2022, 10:31:48 PM »
No, I don't think so.  A ten-part tweet or 10-minute interview would be picked apart just the same.  Just skimming the replies -- because I don't have a stomach for twitter -- you get people having a gut reaction of 'how dare she say my job X is as easy as job Y' i.e. people who fundamentally believe they are better people and deserve more than people doing Y due to their ability to do X or people going 'well economics', i.e. people who have bought into the idea that economics is a valid and perfect science and that when people use economic terms they strictly mean their academic definition.  That tweet is doing what it intends to do, which is to raise the value of 'low skill' works and question how the term gets used, and more importantly, it will hit its intended audience.  Being divisive is not a loss.  Nor is the fact that some people are allergic to rhetoric, and hence might dislike what she said only because of how she said it. 

Uncle

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4794 on: January 05, 2022, 11:41:49 PM »
That tweet is doing what it intends to do, which is to raise the value of 'low skill' works and question how the term gets used, and more importantly, it will hit its intended audience.  Being divisive is not a loss.  Nor is the fact that some people are allergic to rhetoric, and hence might dislike what she said only because of how she said it.

this defense can be equally applied to literally just fucking lying, like trump-style tweets

his intended audience will understand what he means  :-*

so what if it's divisive, it gets him the attention he wants, sowing division is not a loss  ;)

you just don't like what he said because of HOW he said it, put another way you'd agree with him  8)
Uncle


benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4796 on: January 06, 2022, 06:08:02 PM »
https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1479107411201847303

While those may be true in the abstract, I prefer a former President's more straightfoward formulation:
Quote from: Bill Clinton
There is nothing patriotic about hating your government, or pretending you can hate your government but love your country.

Also from that 25 year old speech:
Quote from: Bill Clinton
If you treat law enforcement officers who put their lives on the line for your safety every day like some kind of enemy army, to be suspected, derided, and--if they should be able to enforce the law against you--to be shot, you are wrong
ACAB

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Resist Australian-style Fascism
« Reply #4797 on: January 06, 2022, 07:29:10 PM »

benjipwns

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« Last Edit: January 06, 2022, 07:46:26 PM by benjipwns »

benjipwns

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