Other Forums Containment Thread

[marrec]

There's no way these people don't keep massive online dossiers of "problematic" behavior of strangers. How obsessed do you have to be to go after a Youtuber you don't watch, because they did a single video with some other minor Youtuber you never watched, who said something in a deleted Tumblr post several years ago.

Thats why they go and post on era with a "Hey, whats everyones thoughts on...?" type thread, so they can get a crowd sourced office clippy performative wokeness check;
"Looks like you're enjoying a video from someone who said 'lol, gay' 14 years ago - that;s Highly Problematic!"

It's also why its a win when they can get some bans in a thread like the girlfriend reviews one the other day - they don't have to actually remember what the supposed problem is anymore, they've got Mod Sanctioned Actions that they are Definitely Racist.

Because the most genuine concern is the one you can't remember the specifics of.

When the only social engagement you get is from someone liking your Twitter post that says "fuck Joann btw" it kinda drives you toward virtue signaling as a coping mechanism.

[Taco Bell Tower]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/cnn-why-you-should-upgrade-your-mask-as-the-omicron-variant-spreads-kristen-rogers.532357/#post-79348447

I need to find good, non Made in China N95/KN95 masks. I believe 3M makes them?

Look at this sinophobe.   

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/lindsay-ellis-is-quiting-youtube.532475/page-5#post-79365863

In interest of diverting the attempted thread derail...

Lindsay is at least somewhat responsible for my wife and I meeting. Like a lot of people my age, I watched a ton of her content on TGWTG. It actually inspired me to start doing my own reviews, and I got a small site going where I posted text reviews of, well, everything.

Anyway, I mentioned that in online dating profile and my now-wife messaged me to say she also had a review blog. And that's how we started talking.

So in her own small way, Lindsay is responsible for my wife and I meeting.'c

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

lindsay ellis was one of the more thoughtful and insightful video creators of progressive youtube

even if she presented an opinion or viewpoint you might normally disagree with, it was hard to disagree with her because it was thoughtfully conveyed with supporting arguments and not wrapped up in stupid aggressive hot takes

so naturally there was no way for her to survive the modern internet

It's kinda fucked that we have to sort YouTubers into these political categories.

Lindsay's channel was focused on media criticism, normally laser focused on a specific type of media, and while certainly not apolitical she wasn't making content FOR progressives. Yet all her content is logarithmically sorted into "bread tube". If I were a content creator I'd want to distance myself from anything associated with the larger progressive movement, because these people will not hesitate to destroy you if the political right can convince even a single progressive influencer that you've taken any steps out of line.

The clock is ticking on Hbomberguy and Dan Olsen tbh, the only reason they've survived this long is because they aren't women.

the only youtuber of that ilk I don't find insufferably self indulgent is Jenny Nicholson, tbh, and thats probably just because she only covers stuff shes actually interested in and feels she has something she wants to say

[Risible]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/how-do-i-avoid-fogging-up-my-car-windows.532141/

Every now and then, I'm driving my car and my windows start to fog and I have no idea what setting to use to clear things up. I usually end up with a frantic wipe of my front windshield with my hands so I can see. What am I supposed to do in this situation? Cold? Hot? Outside Air vs. Circulation? Fans on High, Low or off?

I'm 38 and have been driving since I was 16.

 

Imagine having twenty years to solve a problem empirically with maybe 5 variables at best, and failing. 

[marrec]

lindsay ellis was one of the more thoughtful and insightful video creators of progressive youtube

even if she presented an opinion or viewpoint you might normally disagree with, it was hard to disagree with her because it was thoughtfully conveyed with supporting arguments and not wrapped up in stupid aggressive hot takes

so naturally there was no way for her to survive the modern internet

It's kinda fucked that we have to sort YouTubers into these political categories.

Lindsay's channel was focused on media criticism, normally laser focused on a specific type of media, and while certainly not apolitical she wasn't making content FOR progressives. Yet all her content is logarithmically sorted into "bread tube". If I were a content creator I'd want to distance myself from anything associated with the larger progressive movement, because these people will not hesitate to destroy you if the political right can convince even a single progressive influencer that you've taken any steps out of line.

The clock is ticking on Hbomberguy and Dan Olsen tbh, the only reason they've survived this long is because they aren't women.

the only youtuber of that ilk I don't find insufferably self indulgent is Jenny Nicholson, tbh, and thats probably just because she only covers stuff shes actually interested in and feels she has something she wants to say

I kinda enjoy the self-indulgence at times, especially from Harris, but I hear you.

[HaughtyFrank]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/recommend-me-some-anime-and-manga-mod-title-abuse-please-for-the-love-of-god-read-the-op-dont-just-drop-titles-and-run.532583/#post-79376132

Pretty Cure/Precure

It's not actually a single series but rather a franchise of kid-aimed magical girl shows about groups of girls, most commonly middle schoolers (although some seasons have members who are in elementary school or high school) who transform into magical warriors known as Pretty Cure and fight against villains using fisticuffs (seriously it's basically a trademark of the series for these girls to fight the monsters of the week with punches, kicks, throws, etc. It's why there was backlash in the fandom when the 2017 season lacked that feature, allegedly due to parental complaints or something). It's just a great and honestly wholesome series because, you know, it is literally aimed at children, although that doesn't stop it from having a large fanbase of teens and adults (in fact officially in Japan, the target audience is both 5-12 year old girls and 16-35 year old men, although elementary school girls are obviously the main demographic for the show)

I have seen Ree recommend this one quite often

the target audience is both 5-12 year old girls and 16-35 year old men

 

[marrec]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/recommend-me-some-anime-and-manga-mod-title-abuse-please-for-the-love-of-god-read-the-op-dont-just-drop-titles-and-run.532583/#post-79376132

Pretty Cure/Precure

It's not actually a single series but rather a franchise of kid-aimed magical girl shows about groups of girls, most commonly middle schoolers (although some seasons have members who are in elementary school or high school) who transform into magical warriors known as Pretty Cure and fight against villains using fisticuffs (seriously it's basically a trademark of the series for these girls to fight the monsters of the week with punches, kicks, throws, etc. It's why there was backlash in the fandom when the 2017 season lacked that feature, allegedly due to parental complaints or something). It's just a great and honestly wholesome series because, you know, it is literally aimed at children, although that doesn't stop it from having a large fanbase of teens and adults (in fact officially in Japan, the target audience is both 5-12 year old girls and 16-35 year old men, although elementary school girls are obviously the main demographic for the show)

I have seen Ree recommend this one quite often

the target audience is both 5-12 year old girls and 16-35 year old men

 

Anime, not even once

[Chim Richalds]

lindsay ellis was one of the more thoughtful and insightful video creators of progressive youtube

even if she presented an opinion or viewpoint you might normally disagree with, it was hard to disagree with her because it was thoughtfully conveyed with supporting arguments and not wrapped up in stupid aggressive hot takes

so naturally there was no way for her to survive the modern internet

It's kinda fucked that we have to sort YouTubers into these political categories.

Lindsay's channel was focused on media criticism, normally laser focused on a specific type of media, and while certainly not apolitical she wasn't making content FOR progressives. Yet all her content is logarithmically sorted into "bread tube". If I were a content creator I'd want to distance myself from anything associated with the larger progressive movement, because these people will not hesitate to destroy you if the political right can convince even a single progressive influencer that you've taken any steps out of line.

The clock is ticking on Hbomberguy and Dan Olsen tbh, the only reason they've survived this long is because they aren't women.

the only youtuber of that ilk I don't find insufferably self indulgent is Jenny Nicholson, tbh, and thats probably just because she only covers stuff shes actually interested in and feels she has something she wants to say

She's one of the only people I've watched multiple videos from because she's fucking hilarious and the toll doing a deep dive into something like Vampire Diaries takes on her sanity as she gets farther and farther into the video is funny as hell.  Her Paranormal Home Inspectors video is my favorite.  Everything else I watch is like...reaction videos or whatever, because as an old fuck I love seeing people watching something like Blazing Saddles for the first time. 

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

[HaughtyFrank]

I'm temp locking this

https://www.resetera.com/threads/lindsay-ellis-is-quiting-youtube.532475/post-79366469

[nudemacusers]

lindsay ellis was one of the more thoughtful and insightful video creators of progressive youtube

even if she presented an opinion or viewpoint you might normally disagree with, it was hard to disagree with her because it was thoughtfully conveyed with supporting arguments and not wrapped up in stupid aggressive hot takes

so naturally there was no way for her to survive the modern internet

It's kinda fucked that we have to sort YouTubers into these political categories.

Lindsay's channel was focused on media criticism, normally laser focused on a specific type of media, and while certainly not apolitical she wasn't making content FOR progressives. Yet all her content is logarithmically sorted into "bread tube". If I were a content creator I'd want to distance myself from anything associated with the larger progressive movement, because these people will not hesitate to destroy you if the political right can convince even a single progressive influencer that you've taken any steps out of line.

The clock is ticking on Hbomberguy and Dan Olsen tbh, the only reason they've survived this long is because they aren't women.

Every guy I know they looks like Dan has done something inappropriate to a woman. Just a tweet away from annihilation.

[nobody of note]

I'm temp locking this

https://www.resetera.com/threads/lindsay-ellis-is-quiting-youtube.532475/post-79366469

(Image removed from quote.)

Upgraded:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/lindsay-ellis-is-quiting-youtube.532475/page-6#post-79380596

This topic requires a degree of intersectionality that has been lacking in threads of the past and present; to the point that each thread has become a toxic and unmanageable. This thread will remain locked to further discussion.

gets them out of figuring out how to moderate the topic while blaming the users at large without having to pick a stance. 10/10 would dodge introspection again

[Averon]

I'm temp locking this

https://www.resetera.com/threads/lindsay-ellis-is-quiting-youtube.532475/post-79366469

(Image removed from quote.)

Don't worry. B-Duds' chief lieutenant Transistor stepped in to sweep it all under the rug:

This topic requires a degree of intersectionality that has been lacking in threads of the past and present; to the point that each thread has become a toxic and unmanageable. This thread will remain locked to further discussion.

Zero self-reflection. Just lock the thread and hope everyone forgets.
 

[marrec]

Translation:

Lindsay Ellis is a banned topic of discussion on resetera.com

[nudemacusers]

Toxic and unmanageable threads on resetera??!!! 

[HaughtyFrank]

I'm temp locking this

https://www.resetera.com/threads/lindsay-ellis-is-quiting-youtube.532475/post-79366469

(Image removed from quote.)

Don't worry. B-Duds' chief lieutenant Transisor stepped in to sweep it all under the rug:

This topic requires a degree of intersectionality that has been lacking in threads of the past and present; to the point that each thread has become a toxic and unmanageable. This thread will remain locked to further discussion.

Zero self-reflection. Just lock the thread and hope everyone forgets.

This happens fucking every time there's a hint of "are we the baddies?"

"Oh actually this topic requires a lot of nuance and we're not prepared for that so lets never talk about it"

[marrec]

I'm temp locking this

https://www.resetera.com/threads/lindsay-ellis-is-quiting-youtube.532475/post-79366469

(Image removed from quote.)

Don't worry. B-Duds' chief lieutenant Transisor stepped in to sweep it all under the rug:

This topic requires a degree of intersectionality that has been lacking in threads of the past and present; to the point that each thread has become a toxic and unmanageable. This thread will remain locked to further discussion.

Zero self-reflection. Just lock the thread and hope everyone forgets.

This happens fucking every time there's a hint of "are we the baddies?"

"Oh actually this topic requires a lot of nuance and we're not prepared for that so lets never talk about it"

If we never talk about the problematic nature of processive social justice mobs then we never have to stop encouraging them!

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

"The forum mentality that everything is FOR or AGAINST with no degrees inbetween, officially codified with permanent bans for people who argue AGAINST when a mod steps in with Officially Endorsed Correct Opinion, makes the remnants of our mouth breathing population incapable of actual discussion, but what can we possibly do as the moderators of discussion and sole arbiters of forum guidelines to fix that?"

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

Also, "We cannot acknowledge cancel culture exists because it gives a point to the other team, so lets cry crocodile tears as someone elses life gets ruined, and its not like they're actually dead (except those suicides we contributed to and don't talk about) so how even cancelled are they?"

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

and also a double-fuck-you to transistor for good measure bringing up "intersectionality" when in almost all of these fucking cases the absolute most toxic crusaders of cancel culture aren't even members of the fucking group supposedly affected by someones clumsy wording or poor taste joke, they're the "Allies" making sure everyone sees what a good ally they are as they twist the knife

[marrec]

Then, when the eventual conclusion is reached (in this case, what is essentially a mental breakdown) there is no self-reflection or accountability for individuals, only concerned posts about social media and parasocial relationships and locked threads.

I'm not like, psychic or anything, it's just so predictable that you can guarantee the progression as if they're strictly following some international standard for myopic activism.

[Uncle]

lindsay ellis was one of the more thoughtful and insightful video creators of progressive youtube

even if she presented an opinion or viewpoint you might normally disagree with, it was hard to disagree with her because it was thoughtfully conveyed with supporting arguments and not wrapped up in stupid aggressive hot takes

so naturally there was no way for her to survive the modern internet

It's kinda fucked that we have to sort YouTubers into these political categories.

Lindsay's channel was focused on media criticism, normally laser focused on a specific type of media, and while certainly not apolitical she wasn't making content FOR progressives. Yet all her content is logarithmically sorted into "bread tube". If I were a content creator I'd want to distance myself from anything associated with the larger progressive movement, because these people will not hesitate to destroy you if the political right can convince even a single progressive influencer that you've taken any steps out of line.

The clock is ticking on Hbomberguy and Dan Olsen tbh, the only reason they've survived this long is because they aren't women.

oh I totally agree, I didn't want to use the sorting hat on her and questioned if she really was even "progressive" as I typed it

I mean how progressive can someone be if they're calling out disney for mass market corporate wokeness

[VomKriege]

And to add to the earlier "Not all Patreon revenue might be pure profit"
https://twitter.com/thelindsayellis/status/1174103117664681986

[Uncle]

what's really fucked is when I typed "sorting hat" there was a mental acknowledgement that this is a jk rowling reference which is irrevocably transphobic and you briefly wonder if everyone reading that phrase thinks you said it on purpose because you WANT to reference transphobic content and reverse-virtue signal to chuds even though it's literally nothing, just a random reference

all of this is now required thinking in the mind of every good netizen

there is no going back

[marrec]

what's really fucked is when I typed "sorting hat" there was a mental acknowledgement that this is a jk rowling reference which is irrevocably transphobic and you briefly wonder if everyone reading that phrase thinks you said it on purpose because you WANT to reference transphobic content and reverse-virtue signal to chuds even though it's literally nothing, just a random reference

all of this is now required thinking in the mind of every good netizen

there is no going back

My linguistic schemas have been completely ruined by being terminally online

I'm never letting my son start a social media account.

[nudemacusers]

I feel like terminally online performative wokeness belongs to millennials and older zoomers; Gen A is all about problematic tiktokking, sketchy youtubers and personal over sharing. I feel like us millennials just got old and reinternalized all the PC angst and PMRC media hand-wringing our parents shat out on us.

[Cauliflower Of Love]

I feel like terminally online performative wokeness belongs to millennials and older zoomers; Gen A is all about problematic tiktokking, sketchy youtubers and personal over sharing. I feel like us millennials just got old and reinternalized all the PC angst and PMRC media hand-wringing our parents shat out on us.

easy there brody

[HaughtyFrank]

Remember when people were like "Hey there are some trans allegories in the matrix, isn't that cool?" And everyone was like "yeah that's cool"

Now this turned into "A cis director would never be able to make a matrix sequel!!!!"

You are overestimating their abilities as writers and directors.

Other capable writers/ditectors could easily take the ideas of the lore expansion from Matrix 4 and create good movies out of it.

Similarly you might overestimate a cisgender person's ability to write to a trans experience.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/deadline-wb-was-prepared-to-move-on-to-matrix-4-without-the-wachowskis-wb-still-wants-a-fifth-movie-and-for-lana-to-return.532520/page-8

[porkbun]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/how-do-i-avoid-fogging-up-my-car-windows.532141/

Every now and then, I'm driving my car and my windows start to fog and I have no idea what setting to use to clear things up. I usually end up with a frantic wipe of my front windshield with my hands so I can see. What am I supposed to do in this situation? Cold? Hot? Outside Air vs. Circulation? Fans on High, Low or off?

I'm 38 and have been driving since I was 16.

 

Imagine having twenty years to solve a problem empirically with maybe 5 variables at best, and failing.

It's a forum full of 30 and 40 year olds that have to ask how to wipe their ass or just about every basic human interaction.  I'm not surprised the few people on there that actually drive are terrible at it.

[Hap Shaughnessy]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/lindsay-ellis-is-quiting-youtube.532475/#post-79362455

User banned (permanent): trolling

Excellent news!

https://www.resetera.com/threads/lindsay-ellis-is-quiting-youtube.532475/page-6#post-79366304\

User banned (1 month): metacommentary and antagonizing other users

Posts like these are why Asian-Era is mostly gone, my dude. Look in the mirror.

If all Asian-Era was good for was contributing to the mobbing & pitchfork mentality on this site, then what have we lost really?

We’re not dealing with fucking Nazis at the bar here. No need for that level of hostility. Site’s better off without that hostility and they are probably happier being in a place where they don’t have to be so hostile.

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

I haven't seen the new matrix, but all their other movies are shit sooooooo.......

[CHOW CHOW]

Where’s SmokeyDave?

[marrec]

Where’s SmokeyDave?

Probably wanked himself to death with that bid tiddy metalhead pic

[SmokyDave]

Where’s SmokeyDave?

I’m in the 9th circle of hell; having the floor replaced over Christmas. It’s just chaos. Furniture fucking everywhere and none of it where it’s supposed to be.

Honestly man, few have suffered in this manner without breaking entirely.

I did wank myself silly over that metal chick though.

[Chim Richalds]

Remember when people were like "Hey there are some trans allegories in the matrix, isn't that cool?" And everyone was like "yeah that's cool"

Now this turned into "A cis director would never be able to make a matrix sequel!!!!"

You are overestimating their abilities as writers and directors.

Other capable writers/ditectors could easily take the ideas of the lore expansion from Matrix 4 and create good movies out of it.

Similarly you might overestimate a cisgender person's ability to write to a trans experience.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/deadline-wb-was-prepared-to-move-on-to-matrix-4-without-the-wachowskis-wb-still-wants-a-fifth-movie-and-for-lana-to-return.532520/page-8

A cis writer/director already made a better Matrix movie.  It's called Dark City.

[Rahxephon91]

Yeah, I don't know where this whole the "Matrix is a trans metaphor" came from. Seems like at least on Era it now dominates the movie. Yes, I know the creators are trans now and there are probably some readings and framing you can add to the movie that are interesting. I also get that certain groups have tried to co-op the series for their shitty views, but this reaction is a bit too absolute. Because now where at "these movies were always for trans people and you don't see that you're the devil".

Well I don't see it and it's not what I like about the movies anyway. 

[Cauliflower Of Love]

Yeah, I don't know where this whole the "Matrix is a trans metaphor" came from. Seems like at least on Era it now dominates the movie. Yes, I know the creators are trans now and there are probably some readings and framing you can add to the movie that are interesting. I also get that certain groups have tried to co-op the series for their shitty views, but this reaction is a bit too absolute. Because now where at "these movies were always for trans people and you don't see that you're the devil".

Well I don't see it and it's not what I like about the movies anyway. 

People tried to turn the story of the matrix about awakening from something into a trans awakening.

I think wachowsky one had it under their scalp the hole time, and the second one was like "yea sure, but it's about being onese self".

[marrec]

Yeah, I don't know where this whole the "Matrix is a trans metaphor" came from. Seems like at least on Era it now dominates the movie. Yes, I know the creators are trans now and there are probably some readings and framing you can add to the movie that are interesting. I also get that certain groups have tried to co-op the series for their shitty views, but this reaction is a bit too absolute. Because now where at "these movies were always for trans people and you don't see that you're the devil".

Well I don't see it and it's not what I like about the movies anyway.

I mean, there was a lot of essay writing around the Matrix and queer philosophy even before the Wachowskis came out, I don't remember any specific one about trans identity but when you write a movie about breaking out of an ideal but fake reality and into a hostile but true reality the comparisons are inevitable.

[cosmicblizzard]

This manifesto caught my eye in the Bloomberg thread 

https://www.resetera.com/threads/bloomberg-op-ed-video-game-industry-struggles-to-shake-sexist-attitudes-tae-kim.532267/page-3#post-79358786

I fucking hate nothing more than people - oftentimes men, but also other women at times - bringing up that there's women who love playing as female characters in insanely sexualized outfits & don't give a fuck like.. okay? Women with internalized misogyny exist? Women who slut-shame other women exist? As do women who don't give a single shit about misogyny & sexualization (which sadly often is the byproduct of them trying to please men & look like „one of the good ones", but that's a whole different topic) & don't think well of intersectional feminism? Same with women who like cosplaying as sexualized characters & feel empowered by them? But that doesn't mean that the women who do have a problem with misogyny and sexualization & support intersectional feminism are in the wrong or stupid & that people shouldn't listen to them.

Very often has „some people of this specific minority group don't care if other people who don't belong to the same minority group use a slur the minority group reclaimed so I should be able to say it without any repercussion" energy lmao. There's always people who simply do not give a fuck for whatever reason. Be it they're right-winged, anti-SJW fuckers or genuinely simply do not care. Doesn't mean the people who do care are just making up issues that don't exist & should simply shut up. We're not a fucking monolith so of course you never have everyone in a group agreeing on something. Personally, I've always thought that it's more important to make sure the least amount of people are hurt or feel discriminated so instead of immediately dismissing concerns you should always listen first & consider other people's feelings.

To get back to the original topic, sexy or hot != sexualized. As a fucking lesbian I'm obviously attracted to women unlike straight women so of course there's female chracters that I personally consider attractive & hot who are my type, but they're very rarely sexualized & more often than not just in normal ass clothes without any camera leering on their tits or anything like that. Fucking Jesse Fayden from Control, Dina, Ellie & Abby from TLoU2, Frey from Forspoken, Juliette from Deathloop and Chloe & Nadine from The Lost Legacy are some of the female characters that I think are ridiculously attractive & none of them were ever sexualized in any way.

Do I like some female characters who happen to be in dogshit „sexy" outfits myself? Sure. Kainé in Nier & Zero in Drakengard 3 are the best examples. Love them despite their outfits. FFVIIR Tifa as well. But I also have a very similar body type - though I actually have fucking muscles in my arms & thighs unlike her lmfao - to her so I never saw it as super unrealistic generally & more just sexualized. That said, it very much is in context of the game, when you think that she's a fucking fighter. She's got no god damn muscles & is utterly sexualized at times. Just because I generally mostly like her design does not mean that I & others can't call it out or say it's unfitting. Just like Lara Croft was. Just like Jill was. Just like Kainé & Zero are. You can very much like female characters & think their designs are empowering to a degree while also acknowledging that they're sexualized, but a lot of people think we're not capable of that lmao. Please, I know way too many lesbians who go absolutely crazy for some female characters in shit designs while also being the first to talk about how much they suck when it comes to sexualization.

So yeah, bringing up some women (who funnily enough more often than not are ones who think feminism is evil & that we should be gentle with those poor, poor men who feel nothing but hate for us & don't even know how to love women & not just their bodies) being like „lol I'm not like other women I actually don't care about sexualized outfits" isn't the gotcha that some people think it is. Yeah, obviously some don't give a shit. Doesn't mean it's not actually a fucking problem tho.

Anyway, enjoyed the article & agree that it's still very much a problem in the industry. Also kinda losing my mind over how so hung-up some people on Twitter etc. seem to be on the „ugly" thing that wasn't even in the fucking article when people usually have no problem pointing out when a woman or man isn't seen as super conventionally attractive. Like, I personally think Aloy is pretty, but lbr she probably wouldn't run next to Adriana Lima, Miranda Kerr, Alessandra Ambrosio or whoever else is still working with the transphobic Victoria's Secret & is seen as flawless by some parts of our society & it's no crime to point that out lmao. A lot of people do consider characters like Aloy, Abby or Ellie ugly no matter how dogshit their reasons are. Hell, men thought Jill in RE3make was ugly, too manly & „looked infertile" for God's sake.

Personally, I couldn't care for the looks of the vast majority of male characters I've played at - you still don't see me talk about how I think they're ugly bastards or how I couldn't get into the game because of them or some shit. People need to fucking grow up, get over themselves & stop talking like they're models themselves too good to play as characters they wouldn't wanna fuck lmfao.

Also kinda never liked people bringing up Bayo as this perfect sexy female character that owns her sexuality when she's a fictional character designed by the hand of a woman, but after the fetishes of a man - Hideki Kamiya. I love Bayo & even mostly love her design, but she's utterly sexualized by the game, creators & fans so while she can definitely feel empowering for some of us who love owning our sexualities & enjoy dressing sexy I wouldn't say that's all there is to her. If you'd get rid of all the sexualizing male gaze & the fact that she's a product of a man's fetishes I would absolutely agree that she's a great example of a sexy female character in both the way she dresses & acts, but with that baggage I just can't agree.

And I do think too many peole still think that sexualization isn't inherently bad when it very much is. Owning your sexuality, being sexy or dressing sexily or creating a sexy female character - all of which have vastly different definitions depending on which people you ask anyway - is not. Sexualizing a woman dressing sexily or a female character is. Hell, they don't even have to be showing any skin for that. I get sexualized a fuckton when I'm out simply for having a typical hourglass figure even when I'm not showing any skin. Billie Eilish got sexualized like crazy after a paparazzi pic that had her in a tank top with some cleavage showing while she was underage. We do not have any fucking control over people sexualizing us. We can choose for ourselves if we want to dress in a sexy way or not, but even then we're not safe from sexualization. I'm positive there's other women who could explain this better, but I just don't like people - who oftentimes aren't even women - talking about how sexualization of women isn't actually bad & that we should more aim for diverse sexualized characters as if that'd make it any better. Again, you can have sexy or hot characters, nobody said that's not possible. But we do not fucking need sexualized female characters with skimpy outfits that don't fit in the scenario they're in, jiggle physics, ass & tits shots, near moaning when they get hit & other shit like that that's accompanying said sexualized characters.

Sexually objectifying us will never be okay when it leads to eating disorders, depression & suicidal tendencies, body dysmorphia & other mental problems in young girls & women that absolutely ruin the relationships a lot of us have with our bodies. As long as people like me aren't being seen as anything more than a sex object for merely having big tits & an ass we're not at a point where we can talk about how sexualization of women in media made & dominated by men isn't hurtful actually. They do not have any fucking agency, they're not strippers or burlesque dancers or sex workers who know they'll be sexualized while doing their jobs no matter what & can use it to their advantage.

Sorry for the wall of text

The fact this is abrasive as fuck and reads like a caricature makes me think this might be a troll (she was also acting like this in the thread about the dude's friend's girlfriend comforting a different friend in an uncomfortable way after a break up).  But assuming she isn't, I noticed an interesting goalpost move in there.  The comment about cosplayers being bad is new to me.  It used to be "cosplayers have agency and can dress like whatever objectified character they want and that's good!"  This post suggests that it's actually bad.  And several people seem to be agreeing.

At least they found a way to talk down to and dehumanize Vtubers whenever the anti-sexualization crew decides to finally acknowledge their existence.

[Raist]

Where’s SmokeyDave?

I’m in the 9th circle of hell

AKA England

[HaughtyFrank]

This manifesto caught my eye in the Bloomberg thread 

https://www.resetera.com/threads/bloomberg-op-ed-video-game-industry-struggles-to-shake-sexist-attitudes-tae-kim.532267/page-3#post-79358786

....

The fact this is abrasive as fuck and reads like a caricature makes me think this might be a troll (she was also acting like this in the thread about the dude's friend's girlfriend comforting a different friend in an uncomfortable way after a break up).  But assuming she isn't, I noticed an interesting goalpost move in there.  The comment about cosplayers being bad is new to me.  It used to be "cosplayers have agency and can dress like whatever objectified character they want and that's good!"  This post suggests that it's actually bad.  And several people seem to be agreeing.

At least they found a way to talk down to and dehumanize Vtubers whenever the anti-sexualization crew decides to finally acknowledge their existence.

Women with internalized misogyny exist? Women who slut-shame other women exist? As do women who don't give a single shit about misogyny & sexualization (which sadly often is the byproduct of them trying to please men & look like „one of the good ones", but that's a whole different topic) & don't think well of intersectional feminism? Same with women who like cosplaying as sexualized characters & feel empowered by them? But that doesn't mean that the women who do have a problem with misogyny and sexualization & support intersectional feminism are in the wrong or stupid & that people shouldn't listen to them.

And yet she's telling those women who feel empowered by it that they're stupid and that people shouldn't listen to them.  Even taking away their agency "Oh you're just internalizing misogyny, you're a pick me girl!" some real sisterhood right there.

I'd also really like to see what she thinks the difference between sexy and sexualization is. When her example of sexualization is that people went wild over Billy Eilish in a tank top this really only means that people will sexualize anyone who is sexy, so how can you even separate these two?

[Hap Shaughnessy]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/bloomberg-op-ed-video-game-industry-struggles-to-shake-sexist-attitudes-tae-kim.532267/page-3#post-79367069

They want to play Bayonetta without the sexual character design?? Isn’t that like, a huge part of her personality and move set? Why not just play any other game, or just admit that the game isn’t for you if you’re too embarrassed to play in front of others, instead of demanding conformity to your individual level of comfort?

User Banned (permanent): dismissing concerns of sexism, prior ban for dismissing sexism and objectification

That's just the fake "progressives" trying to derail the conversation parading as "woke" only to try to impose conservative and dated opinion as "concerns".
Really old and tired. "Oh, I can't try to censor this obscene game, were a woman teases angels in a snarky way? Let's see how the libs responds when I complain that it offends me as sexualized object!"

User Banned (3 months): dismissing concerns of sexism over multiple posts

It’s not that. It’s just people who have issues with their bodies looking to reclaim their sexuality by denying it in others.

Edit: How the fuck is Kinthey not permed?
https://www.resetera.com/threads/bloomberg-op-ed-video-game-industry-struggles-to-shake-sexist-attitudes-tae-kim.532267/page-4#post-79388342

Alanah Pearce also got into the conversation
https://twitter.com/Charalanahzard/status/1475588446781542402?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1475588446781542402%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

Hope it's okay to post despite her replying to Melonie Mac but thought it noteworthy since she's currently working in the industry as a writer.

[marrec]

Beyond all the "if you dress as Harley Quinn you have internalized misogyny" bullshit, I found this paragraph mega-confusing:

"Also kinda never liked people bringing up Bayo as this perfect sexy female character that owns her sexuality when she's a fictional character designed by the hand of a woman, but after the fetishes of a man - Hideki Kamiya. I love Bayo & even mostly love her design, but she's utterly sexualized by the game, creators & fans so while she can definitely feel empowering for some of us who love owning our sexualities & enjoy dressing sexy I wouldn't say that's all there is to her. If you'd get rid of all the sexualizing male gaze & the fact that she's a product of a man's fetishes I would absolutely agree that she's a great example of a sexy female character in both the way she dresses & acts, but with that baggage I just can't agree."

This presents sexualization in and of itself as bad, rather than any specific type of sexualization or characterization.

The characters she lists as "attractive" are all conventionally attractive women who just happen to be wearing normal clothes most of the time (with some overt sexualization within the context of their games).

Is ALL sexualization wrong? Is the goal to remove sex entirely from video games? Or is the goal to allow healthy and natural sexualization within the context of the world these characters inhabit?

[HaughtyFrank]

Just noticed that the writer of the piece is posting on resetera. This is his response to the Pearce tweet

These straw man arguments are pretty tiring, frankly. There's a difference between "male gaze/cringey" stuff I'm talking about (maybe I should have also mentioned Tekken and Dead or Alive) versus all these other things. The conflation is exhausting.

It's funny because he talks about that there need to be more women in the industry but when one of these women tells him "nope" it's a straw man. (and he picks even more niche games as examples lol)

[marrec]

Just noticed that the writer of the piece is posting on resetera. This is his response to the Pearce tweet

These straw man arguments are pretty tiring, frankly. There's a difference between "male gaze/cringey" stuff I'm talking about (maybe I should have also mentioned Tekken and Dead or Alive) versus all these other things. The conflation is exhausting.

It's funny because he talks about that there need to be more women in the industry but when one of these women tells him "nope" it's a straw man. (and he picks even more niche games as examples lol)

You think this is hypocrisy but it isn't, there simply need to be more women that feminist men approve of in the video game industry.

[HaughtyFrank]

Beyond all the "if you dress as Harley Quinn you have internalized misogyny" bullshit, I found this paragraph mega-confusing:

"Also kinda never liked people bringing up Bayo as this perfect sexy female character that owns her sexuality when she's a fictional character designed by the hand of a woman, but after the fetishes of a man - Hideki Kamiya. I love Bayo & even mostly love her design, but she's utterly sexualized by the game, creators & fans so while she can definitely feel empowering for some of us who love owning our sexualities & enjoy dressing sexy I wouldn't say that's all there is to her. If you'd get rid of all the sexualizing male gaze & the fact that she's a product of a man's fetishes I would absolutely agree that she's a great example of a sexy female character in both the way she dresses & acts, but with that baggage I just can't agree."

This presents sexualization in and of itself as bad, rather than any specific type of sexualization or characterization.

The characters she lists as "attractive" are all conventionally attractive women who just happen to be wearing normal clothes most of the time (with some overt sexualization within the context of their games).

Is ALL sexualization wrong? Is the goal to remove sex entirely from video games? Or is the goal to allow healthy and natural sexualization within the context of the world these characters inhabit?

She straight up says that sexualization is inherently bad.

And I do think too many peole still think that sexualization isn't inherently bad when it very much is. Owning your sexuality, being sexy or dressing sexily or creating a sexy female character- all of which have vastly different definitions depending on which people you ask anyway - is not. Sexualizing a woman dressing sexily or a female character is

I'm not really sure what concept of sexualization she has. By saying she thinks Chloe or Nadine from Uncharted are hot she isn't she already sexualizing them?

[Uncle]

is sexualization always about showing too much thigh, too much thigh gap, cleavage, boob window?

like what if there was a game and all you saw of any woman was just their heads

could we make a lineup of woman heads and ask people to sort them into game-appropriate and game-inappropriate piles

would era be saying "nah those are some dick-suckin lips if I ever saw any"

[marrec]

Beyond all the "if you dress as Harley Quinn you have internalized misogyny" bullshit, I found this paragraph mega-confusing:

"Also kinda never liked people bringing up Bayo as this perfect sexy female character that owns her sexuality when she's a fictional character designed by the hand of a woman, but after the fetishes of a man - Hideki Kamiya. I love Bayo & even mostly love her design, but she's utterly sexualized by the game, creators & fans so while she can definitely feel empowering for some of us who love owning our sexualities & enjoy dressing sexy I wouldn't say that's all there is to her. If you'd get rid of all the sexualizing male gaze & the fact that she's a product of a man's fetishes I would absolutely agree that she's a great example of a sexy female character in both the way she dresses & acts, but with that baggage I just can't agree."

This presents sexualization in and of itself as bad, rather than any specific type of sexualization or characterization.

The characters she lists as "attractive" are all conventionally attractive women who just happen to be wearing normal clothes most of the time (with some overt sexualization within the context of their games).

Is ALL sexualization wrong? Is the goal to remove sex entirely from video games? Or is the goal to allow healthy and natural sexualization within the context of the world these characters inhabit?

She straight up says that sexualization is inherently bad.

And I do think too many peole still think that sexualization isn't inherently bad when it very much is. Owning your sexuality, being sexy or dressing sexily or creating a sexy female character- all of which have vastly different definitions depending on which people you ask anyway - is not. Sexualizing a woman dressing sexily or a female character is

I'm not really sure what concept of sexualization she has. By saying she thinks Chloe or Nadine from Uncharted are hot she isn't she already sexualizing them?

Oh... huh, so maybe she just has a different definition of sexualization than I do.

Chloe and Nadine are both explicitly sexualized within the Uncharted series, viewed as sex objects by characters within the story as well as seen from the "male gaze" by the camera at times. Are they okay because the poster finds them hot?

Of course, their design is more "tasteful" than say... any character ever from Neir... but tasteful and sexual are not mutually exclusive.

[HardcoreRetro]

"Also kinda never liked people bringing up Bayo as this perfect sexy female character that owns her sexuality when she's a fictional character designed by the hand of a woman, but after the fetishes of a man - Hideki Kamiya. "

I think they had articles on the design of Bayonetta on the website. The only thing Kamiya personally asked for was for her to have glasses.

What a fucking sick bastard.

[Straight Edge]

Isn't "sexualization" done by the viewer?

[marrec]

"Also kinda never liked people bringing up Bayo as this perfect sexy female character that owns her sexuality when she's a fictional character designed by the hand of a woman, but after the fetishes of a man - Hideki Kamiya. "

I think they had articles on the design of Bayonetta on the website. The only thing Kamiya personally asked for was for her to have glasses.

What a fucking sick bastard.

Glasses are just another shackle of the patriarchy my friend, women only wear them because society has told them Hideki Kamiya will like them more if they do.

Isn't "sexualization" done by the viewer?

I think, in this context we can assume sexualization means explicit design that puts emphasis on qualities that make them more sexually desirable in spite of any other defining characteristic... but even this uncharitable definition isn't inherently negative all the time.

[HardcoreRetro]

How do they feel about the design Shimazaki did for No More Heroes 3. It's as if the woman has her own sort of style.

[cosmicblizzard]

I like how the writer of the article is completely foregoing the Twitter ratio he was subjected to and instead talking about his work on a highly moderated safespace that fits his worldview.

I also thought I recognized the name, but it turns out I was thinking of Hyung-tae Kim instead of Tae Kim, the CEO of Shift Up and creator of the highly sexualized Project Eve.  How ironic.

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

And yet she's telling those women who feel empowered by it that they're stupid and that people shouldn't listen to them.  Even taking away their agency "Oh you're just internalizing misogyny, you're a pick me girl!" some real sisterhood right there.

I'd also really like to see what she thinks the difference between sexy and sexualization is. When her example of sexualization is that people went wild over Billy Eilish in a tank top this really only means that people will sexualize anyone who is sexy, so how can you even separate these two?

I think as soon as you declare yourself "non-binary" you've automatically given up the right to speak on or behalf of "women in general" to be brutally honest.

[joeboy101]

Remember when people were like "Hey there are some trans allegories in the matrix, isn't that cool?" And everyone was like "yeah that's cool"

Now this turned into "A cis director would never be able to make a matrix sequel!!!!"

You are overestimating their abilities as writers and directors.

Other capable writers/ditectors could easily take the ideas of the lore expansion from Matrix 4 and create good movies out of it.

Similarly you might overestimate a cisgender person's ability to write to a trans experience.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/deadline-wb-was-prepared-to-move-on-to-matrix-4-without-the-wachowskis-wb-still-wants-a-fifth-movie-and-for-lana-to-return.532520/page-8

A cis writer/director already made a better Matrix movie.  It's called Dark City.

 

[HaughtyFrank]

"Also kinda never liked people bringing up Bayo as this perfect sexy female character that owns her sexuality when she's a fictional character designed by the hand of a woman, but after the fetishes of a man - Hideki Kamiya. "

I think they had articles on the design of Bayonetta on the website. The only thing Kamiya personally asked for was for her to have glasses.

What a fucking sick bastard.

Now try to think of how many female characters wear glasses, let alone main characters.

Kamiya, king of representation 

[HardcoreRetro]

Now try to think of how many female characters wear glasses, let alone main characters.

Kamiya, king of representation 

"Glasses! This was something that Kamiya-san really pushed for, as he was aiming to differentiate Bayonetta from other female characters and give her a sense of mystery and intelligence. Of course, I think it is just because he likes girls with glasses."

This is literally from that old article on their website.

[Potato]

https://www.resetera.com/threads/recommend-me-some-anime-and-manga-mod-title-abuse-please-for-the-love-of-god-read-the-op-dont-just-drop-titles-and-run.532583/#post-79376132

Pretty Cure/Precure

It's not actually a single series but rather a franchise of kid-aimed magical girl shows about groups of girls, most commonly middle schoolers (although some seasons have members who are in elementary school or high school) who transform into magical warriors known as Pretty Cure and fight against villains using fisticuffs (seriously it's basically a trademark of the series for these girls to fight the monsters of the week with punches, kicks, throws, etc. It's why there was backlash in the fandom when the 2017 season lacked that feature, allegedly due to parental complaints or something). It's just a great and honestly wholesome series because, you know, it is literally aimed at children, although that doesn't stop it from having a large fanbase of teens and adults (in fact officially in Japan, the target audience is both 5-12 year old girls and 16-35 year old men, although elementary school girls are obviously the main demographic for the show)

I have seen Ree recommend this one quite often

 
What the fuck is wrong with anime fans? How fucking paedo does this shit have to get before we start locking up the people who watch this trash?

[Potato]

There's no way these people don't keep massive online dossiers of "problematic" behavior of strangers. How obsessed do you have to be to go after a Youtuber you don't watch, because they did a single video with some other minor Youtuber you never watched, who said something in a deleted Tumblr post several years ago.

It's trickle down cancelnomics.

These dossiers usually originate from places like (like as in, sharing the same philosophy, not like as in, actually) kiwifarms, where individual obsessives (read: stalkers) with no life carefully curate this stuff and specifically inject it into any controversy that trends in an attempt to further enflame and provoke "problematic responses". Like everything else on the web in 2021, there's nothing organic about the controversy, it's all carefully directed and controlled by a small minority and places like ERA always take the bait.

Y'all are gunna roll your eyes, but it's the exact thing that started Gamergate; it works, and that's why it keeps happening.

Then, when the eventual conclusion is reached (in this case, what is essentially a mental breakdown) there is no self-reflection or accountability for individuals, only concerned posts about social media and parasocial relationships and locked threads.

We joke about ERA killing people, but the organized campaigns of online harassment that have led some to self-harm has surely filtered through ERA posters who gleefully participated in the mob but will quickly distance themselves from any responsibility.

All of these people gleefully court the crazies and provide hotter and hotter takes to generate more controversy and clicks to ensure a larger revenue stream. Fuck the lot of them, no sympathy for any of them.