Author Topic: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town  (Read 211885 times)

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Skullfuckers Anonymous

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D3RANG3D

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1021 on: June 24, 2022, 05:06:06 PM »

james

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1022 on: June 24, 2022, 05:08:24 PM »
Keith Sutherland was onto something with his hit TV show Designated Survivor. Its time to clear the current status quo and start from scratch
:O

Nintex

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1023 on: June 24, 2022, 05:10:58 PM »
It's sort of a self-own for the Florida Swingers Club too  :doge

https://twitter.com/NYTNational/status/1540441660504637441
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Uncle

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1024 on: June 24, 2022, 05:14:19 PM »
Uncle

benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1025 on: June 24, 2022, 05:45:09 PM »
If only there had been more freedom of speech in America, surely this could have been prevented.
You're not doing well to dispel notions that you aren't just an authoritarian.

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Uncle

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1027 on: June 24, 2022, 06:01:14 PM »
https://twitter.com/FarnoushAmiri/status/1540370901803433984

what are they doing

I have heard this is just a very poorly timed event, this was not about roe v. wade but due to their pride in passing really significant gun reform
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benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1028 on: June 24, 2022, 06:25:54 PM »
It's sort of a self-own for the Florida Swingers Club too  :doge
Meanwhile, publicly:
EXCLUSIVE: Former President Donald Trump praised the Supreme Court’s decision to overturn Roe v. Wade Friday, telling Fox News that the ruling "will work out for everybody."

"This is following the Constitution, and giving rights back when they should have been given long ago," Trump told Fox News.

When asked if he had a message for any of his supporters who may be pro-choice, Trump told Fox News: "I think, in the end, this is something that will work out for everybody."

"This brings everything back to the states where it has always belonged," Trump said.

When asked whether he feels he played a role in the reversal of Roe v. Wade, after having appointed three conservative justices to the high court, the former president told Fox News: "God made the decision."

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1031 on: June 24, 2022, 10:28:12 PM »
Roe v. Wade overturned.
Public open carry established.
Religious schools required to benefit from state funds in Maine.

What the actual fuck is wrong with my broken country? I’m

HaughtyFrank

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1032 on: June 24, 2022, 10:45:49 PM »

benjipwns

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Occam

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1034 on: June 25, 2022, 12:53:32 AM »
If only there had been more freedom of speech in America, surely this could have been prevented.
You're not doing well to dispel notions that you aren't just an authoritarian.

You keep claiming with a straight face that hate speech cannot lead to physical harm.
That disinformation has no adverse effects.
That allowing a vast propaganda network to create an alternate reality where up is down and left is right is not detrimental to democracy AND FREEDOM.

Well, here we go.
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benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1035 on: June 25, 2022, 01:10:31 AM »
You keep claiming with a straight face that hate speech cannot lead to physical harm.
That disinformation has no adverse effects.
That allowing a vast propaganda network to create an alternate reality where up is down and left is right is not detrimental to democracy AND FREEDOM.

Well, here we go.
You're going to have to explain who should have been imprisoned for what, when, and for how long to stop the tens of millions strong anti-abortion movement that nearly got Roe overturned thirty years ago, after Republicans had appointed eight of the nine Justices, except that David Souter had fooled H.W. Bush and John Sununu. You'll also have to be pretty specific to avoid it looking like a vague suggestion that Richard Nixon should have simply outlawed democracy by decree.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2022, 01:26:03 AM by benjipwns »

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1036 on: June 25, 2022, 02:42:58 AM »
This is kinda wild (thouuugh not sure if this is really perjury, it's more like an opinion after all)

https://twitter.com/SpeakFreely55/status/1540394913421852672

What was actually the official reason for why made a new decision on Roe v. Wade? I'd imagined there'd need to be a pressing concern for a court to just overturn their old ruling.

“Actually, I changed my mind. It’s time for the Law of Amy.” :klob
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benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1037 on: June 25, 2022, 03:11:20 AM »
What was actually the official reason for why made a new decision on Roe v. Wade? I'd imagined there'd need to be a pressing concern for a court to just overturn their old ruling.
Mississippi attempted to move up the date when abortion bans begin, this was contested to the Supreme Court. When evaluating cases the Supreme Court is essentially empowered to make any ruling it wishes on the subject, being bound by precedent is custom but not required. There was fairly decent grounds to write Mississippi's law into the precedent (and it's what I assumed Roberts would attempt to gain a majority for so I was skeptical of the Alito draft) but they decided six seats is too good of opportunity to pass up. While traditionally the Court will try to write rulings narrowly to mildly change precedent slowly, especially under Roberts, it's not uncommon at all for the Court to simply overturn a previous ruling. Many of the most famous cases are doing exactly that, probably the biggest one being Brown v. Board overturning Plessy v. Ferguson, which first held then reversed that racial segregation was lawful.

Republican Justices have long wanted to overturn Roe, even Democrats didn't like the logic of the ruling not that they were going to overturn it, it almost got overturned in 1992 but four Republican appointees and a Democrat appointee rewrote Roe with Casey and expanded what could be restricted, the other four Republican appointees (yes, they had eight out of nine) were willing to just scrap the entire thing. They couldn't scrap Casey as long as Kennedy was the swing seat but Trump was able to replace him, Scalia and add another Justice to give a cushion but it turned out they weren't losing Roberts after all.

I don't think Dobbs was a test case to get Casey back in front of the Justices, Mississippi probably imagined they would just get it written into Casey if they won, but the subject did allow the Justices to revisit Casey and Roe.

Hopefully the Justices will use the opportunity of getting the win on Roe to invalidate Texas' SR8 since they no longer need to try to find ways to undermine Roe and don't have to treat it as an "abortion" case now.

jorma

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1038 on: June 25, 2022, 03:56:45 AM »
From what i could tell, mississippi wanted to move the limit for free abortion to 15 weeks, which is still longer than the 12 weeks of free abortion that Germany has. And when i say free i actually mean that it's still illegal, it's just not punishable (in the first 12 weeks, if they submit themselves to 3 days of "councelling" where doctors try to persuade them not to do it and if they can afford it, or get social services to pay for it).

Maybe the strict hate speech laws in Germany doesn't do much to prevent much of anything in regards to women's rights. Maybe it's actually the other way around since German doctors up until just now weren't even allowed to inform women of their right to abort a foster  :lol

Occam

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1039 on: June 25, 2022, 04:51:04 AM »
No, hate speech isn't directly responsible in this instance, it's just one facet of the overarching problem America is facing.
Here is an article that sums it up nicely, in my opinion.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/10/29/why-america-needs-hate-speech-law/

Contrary to the words benjipwns keeps putting in my mouth, what I have suggested isn't authoritarianism leading to prison sentences but a modernised version of the fairness doctrine that encompasses all news information media platforms. How to bring this about, I have no idea. But the fairness doctrine of old did work, it successfully prevented alternative realities not grounded in actual reality from emerging because people were subjected to competing ideas from the entire spectrum, leading to a popular consensus of what is real, shared by most people. Except for a few radicals on the fringes, who remained just there, on the fringes.

I don't know what kind of solution benji is suggesting. Any faith in the courts to uphold even basic freedoms seems somewhat misplaced when (as has just been shown) precedent doesn't matter and previous decisions can be overturned at will by a handful of religious nuts in the Supreme Court.

What just happened was pretty much a foregone conclusion after Ruth Bader Ginsburg died. I don't know if he actually had the power to do this, but if so, Biden should have stacked the Supreme Court. That was his one and only chance to prevent the downfall of America caused by minority rule, by making Gerrymandering illegal, preventing party financing corruption and retaining reproductive rights.
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benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1040 on: June 25, 2022, 05:22:09 AM »
So your central theory is that the Fairness Doctrine, which we've already established never operated in the way you think it did, would have stopped the decidedly non-fringe anti-abortion movement that existed during the era of the Fairness Doctrine and had already nearly repealed Roe well before Fox News ever came on the air. Even though by your own description of what you think the Fairness Doctrine did it would force everyone to provide anti-abortion views a platform even if they didn't want to.

You responded to the Court opening the door to the restricting of one constitutional right by saying we should further restrict the constitutional right that protects the ability to advocate for the first rights restoration. And then when asked for specifics about how exactly you want to restrict the most essential human right in a way that could work to accomplish what you desire, and especially a theory of how this would have worked historically, you point to something that was completely irrelevant and never worked as you think it did while refusing to elaborate further. This seems like only the target, the people's right to think about and advocate for policy changes, is what matters not the alleged goal of convincing the people to work to create a Supreme Court that will reverse itself again. Not only is your theory predicated on the people who wanted books about politicians banned, wrote the Patriot Act or is Donald Trump never using your modest proposal to silence anyone who advocates for abortion or expanding democracy or whatever else but it also seems to be predicated on the idea that you simply outline the vague and broad solution, apparently always restricting freedom of speech and throwing people in jail when they speak in ways the powerful disfavor, and any of the specifics can just be worked out from there. It's a strange advocacy to broadly advocate for removing the underpinning of democracy in the name of democracy, especially when the alleged goal is to find something that will lead to the people to seek to expand the protection of their rights.

I also find it interesting how so many people who want so many more things illegal also often seem to believe that the law won't actually get enforced. A reality with a benign theory of governance where the philosopher kings like themselves will dictate and all the people will happily obey out of gratitude.

Occam

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1041 on: June 25, 2022, 05:26:56 AM »
There are no constitutional rights unless the Supreme Court says so.

Maybe they could overturn Loving v. Virginia next. Because, why not.
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benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1042 on: June 25, 2022, 05:48:55 AM »
If you just want to advocate for the raw exercise of power and violence without any liberal or democratic trappings, well... :shh

Nintex

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1043 on: June 25, 2022, 06:18:04 AM »
Despite their numbers dwindling America is still very religious (65% sees themselves as Christian).
The majority of Hispanic and Latino Americans are Christians (76%) and looking at the numbers abortions aren't very popular among Asians, Indians and Muslims either.
At the same time out of all those religious people there's probably a only fraction that wants a full blanket ban on all abortions.
If anything throughout history Christians have been more creative in 'explaining' the bible than they are about living by its rules.

Republicans have always walked on egg shells on this issue so apart from deep red states they can't just ban all abortions without a significant blowback.
At the same time Democrats won't be able to get the center to sign up for unrestricted and unlimited tax-payer funded abortions for birthing people.

It should be easy to a get a majority to sign on to a 'common sense' abortion guideline similar to what is available in Europe and that can now be done state by state.
If anything that is what the Democrats should've done years ago.
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Occam

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1044 on: June 25, 2022, 11:04:55 AM »
Benji, I am still waiting for your suggestions what should be done to fix America's problems. Unless you think there is nothing wrong.
By the way, you keep bringing up the slippery slope you dread, yet none of the laws designed to protect groups of people from hatred in many western nations have resulted in any slipping. For instance, there is no mass incarnation in Europe (unlike in the US of A).
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Occam

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1045 on: June 25, 2022, 12:16:57 PM »
Clarence Thomas calls for Supreme Court to 'reconsider' gay marriage, contraception after Roe v. Wade falls
https://news.yahoo.com/clarence-thomas-calls-supreme-court-171801459.html

I am shocked! Shocked, I tell you.
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Uncle

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1046 on: June 25, 2022, 12:18:13 PM »
Benji, I am still waiting for your suggestions what should be done to fix America's problems. Unless you think there is nothing wrong.
By the way, you keep bringing up the slippery slope you dread, yet none of the laws designed to protect groups of people from hatred in many western nations have resulted in any slipping. For instance, there is no mass incarnation in Europe (unlike in the US of A).

you could argue that a guy getting arrested for teaching a dog to raise his paw and heil as a dumb joke is already falling down the slippery slope

numerous cases of people being arrested for tweets that might not even be bad enough to earn you a brief ban on many sites

increasingly invasive attacks on personal freedoms being only narrowly avoided, like article 13 banning even the most minor uses of copyrighted material online, or the attempt to ban porn

these kind of discussions only come up when you've already decided it's ok to limit free expression, and now it's just a matter of determining further degrees


also, much of europe's ability to continue to express itself freely is due to the fact that most of the big sites are hosted in the US which DOES have those protections
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Occam

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1047 on: June 25, 2022, 12:23:42 PM »
Fair enough, the dog thing may be an overreach.

Edit: I looked up the dog case.
Quote
Mark Meechan, 29, taught the pug, named Buddha, to respond with the Nazi salute when prompted by statements such as “Heil Hitler” and “gas the Jews.”
So it wasn't just the nazi salute, he also thought gassing Jews was a funny joke. What a dolt.
The guy was eventually fined 800 pounds. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2022, 12:38:18 PM by Occam »
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Uncle

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1048 on: June 25, 2022, 12:41:48 PM »
or this, a man arrested and charged with 18 months supervision and 150 hours of community service for tweeting "the only good soldier is a dead one," serving justice and protecting that oppressed minority group from hatred

he was drunk at the time, thought better of it and deleted it 20 minutes later, but as we all know the damage had already been done  :gbcry

imagine being arrested for saying "can't wait for these supreme court justices to retire in the manner of RBG"
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Occam

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1049 on: June 25, 2022, 01:10:09 PM »
I fully agree with you there, that British law is insane. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/section/127
I don't think any other European nations have laws a strict as that, and this goes way beyond hate speech laws.
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Occam

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1050 on: June 25, 2022, 01:12:12 PM »
Anyway, back on topic. As I wrote above, in a move surprising no one,
Clarence Thomas calls for Supreme Court to 'reconsider' gay marriage, contraception after Roe v. Wade falls
https://news.yahoo.com/clarence-thomas-calls-supreme-court-171801459.html
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Occam

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1052 on: June 25, 2022, 02:20:03 PM »
White House: Biden doesn’t support expanding Supreme Court, despite disagreements

Bid farewell to these United States of America.
504

VomKriege

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1053 on: June 25, 2022, 05:01:26 PM »
benjipwns : "This is fine"
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benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1054 on: June 25, 2022, 07:16:23 PM »
Benji, I am still waiting for your suggestions what should be done to fix America's problems. Unless you think there is nothing wrong.
When somebody advocates where I can respond for my fellow citizens (but not themselves) to face the prospect of jail time or worse for the use of an essential human right on the basis of "it'll work this time, trust me bro" I do feel a little entitled to ask questions and possibly even object on their behalf without having to propose a counter "solution" such a person would find acceptable since I think that further maintaining rights and liberal democracy is the solution, not continuing to eliminate them and pursuing despotism.

You seem to blindly trust an Obama or Trump or Robespierre not to use the power you want to give them, I don't, given well, you know, the history and all.

Assume for the sake of argument that the Fairness Doctrine actually did work as you think it did, if it was reinstated it wouldn't apply to anything on the internet, it wouldn't apply to Fox News, CNN or MSNBC, it wouldn't apply to any newspapers, etc. You know who it would really change? Public broadcasting, who would be forced to platform Trump supporters and similar. This surely can't be your intended goal, to make the news coverage most likely aligned with your worldview extremely more pro-Trump and open to radical views than it is currently and has been for forty years. If you want to expand it to reach all those things then you're targeting the First Amendment itself by beginning back down the path to compelled speech. And if your concern is the recent ruling, I honestly can't fathom why you would want red states to start prosecuting people who advocate solely for abortion now that it's left up to each state.

If your proposal only has foreseeable downsides why should I (or anyone else) want it? Because you think it might work, even though you can't articulate an upside, so we're obligated to have our rights restricted for you? A very odd request I think.

You seem to think that freedom of speech, press, thought, assembly, etc. are trifling things that should be cast aside so self-chosen elite like Donald Trump can use the state to pursue those who offend him or threaten his power. I consider this to be rather short-sighted and ignorant given again, the history. Especially if your concern is protecting abortion rights considering advocacy is the only reasonable democratic path to do so unless your interest is in merely attempting to force a minority view (or even a majority view though not in this case) on the populace by restricting their rights. Which again, the history.

benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1055 on: June 25, 2022, 07:20:41 PM »
What just happened was pretty much a foregone conclusion after Ruth Bader Ginsburg died. I don't know if he actually had the power to do this, but if so, Biden should have stacked the Supreme Court.
White House: Biden doesn’t support expanding Supreme Court, despite disagreements

Bid farewell to these United States of America.
Of course, Biden cannot do this, he is not a dictator as you wish, he doesn't have support for it in the legislature even if he himself did not oppose it as he has forever.

If you don't know anything about the United States why are you so desperate to "improve" it by shredding its democracy without informing yourself about it first?

Nintex

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1056 on: June 25, 2022, 07:27:10 PM »
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Occam

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1057 on: June 25, 2022, 11:42:45 PM »
I think that further maintaining rights and liberal democracy is the solution

That doesn't answer my question. The American Taliban will do away with those rights soon enough, as they see fit. The process is already well underway. How would you stop them?
504

benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1058 on: June 26, 2022, 12:02:52 AM »
I reject your premise that deliberately ending liberal democracy and the democratic process for mass totalitarian violence is a necessity either immediately or ever.

Occam

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1059 on: June 26, 2022, 12:14:56 AM »
Who wants to end liberal democracy? Besides, there is no liberal democracy to be ended, America is a "flawed democracy" with minority rule right now, broken by design, and it will get much worse.
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benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1060 on: June 26, 2022, 12:20:22 AM »
If you aren't going to make explicit what you are advocating for I can only infer from that which you do say. So far that consists of a burning desire to end freedom of thought with the accomplishment of that as the only goal.

Occam

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1061 on: June 26, 2022, 12:28:30 AM »
I am advocating for America to become a liberal democracy.
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benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1062 on: June 26, 2022, 12:30:30 AM »
I am advocating for America to become a liberal democracy.
Not if you want it to have exponentially less freedom of thought than it currently does. :patel

benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1063 on: June 26, 2022, 12:55:25 AM »
I reject your premise that deliberately ending liberal democracy and the democratic process for mass totalitarian violence is a necessity either immediately or ever.
Alternative proposal:
https://twitter.com/coolandfungi/status/1540351353947492353

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headwalk

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1067 on: June 26, 2022, 10:58:26 AM »
in the US, can't supreme court justices step down when they're old as fuck and blatently going to die soon and there's a favourable president?

seems like such a crazy russian roulette to play otherwise.

benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1068 on: June 26, 2022, 11:10:05 AM »
in the US, can't supreme court justices step down when they're old as fuck and blatently going to die soon and there's a favourable president?

seems like such a crazy russian roulette to play otherwise.
Yes, that's what Breyer just did this year. And Kennedy, Stevens, Souter, and O'Connor before him.

You don't have to be totally old as fuck, Souter was only 70 and had wanted to retire but he was waiting for W. Bush to leave for hopefully a Democrat, which he got in Obama.

Thomas is the oldest Justice on the Court currently and he's 74 as he was 43 when appointed.

headwalk

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1069 on: June 26, 2022, 11:21:16 AM »
i see, i'm surprised they didn't pull some weekend at bernies shit when RBG let the side down.

benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1070 on: June 26, 2022, 11:37:29 AM »
While flipping Ginsburg's seat was huge for the Republicans as it lets them lose a Justice, she didn't lose them Roe or any of these other rulings Democrats are unhappy with*, that was losing the 2016 election so they couldn't flip Scalia's seat AND protect Ginsburg's. Kennedy probably wouldn't have retired for Kavanaugh so he'd still be there hoping to make it past 2024, but it would have given the Democrats five seats plus Kennedy was relatively libertarian on social issues.

*That theory's predicated on Roberts becoming an actual swing seat rather than seeking narrow conservative victories. I suppose that could have saved Casey/Roe but if he can't get a majority for it I doubt he'd have sided with the progressives based on what we now know.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2022, 11:44:44 AM by benjipwns »

Nintex

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1071 on: June 26, 2022, 02:26:02 PM »
It's sort of mind boggling that Howard Stern regular, Playboy cover story and Miss Universe "organizer" Donald Trump is getting all the credit for limiting abortion rights.  :doge
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Pissy F Benny

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1072 on: June 26, 2022, 02:55:45 PM »
It wouldn't shock me if no single person in US history had paid for more abortions than Trump tbh
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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1073 on: June 26, 2022, 03:08:30 PM »
https://twitter.com/BNNBreaking/status/1540840545039564800

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HaughtyFrank

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1074 on: June 26, 2022, 03:28:02 PM »
"Semen intake" is my favorite porn series

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1075 on: June 26, 2022, 04:05:27 PM »
Benji, can you give us a short summary on how the US allowed it's Supreme Court to become so politicised? Like, is there no actual oversight on these appointments to ensure these people do not politicise what should be the most politically neutral office in the country?
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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1077 on: June 26, 2022, 05:55:59 PM »
Does she keep her door closed? :trumps
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benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1078 on: June 26, 2022, 08:27:16 PM »
Benji, can you give us a short summary on how the US allowed it's Supreme Court to become so politicised? Like, is there no actual oversight on these appointments to ensure these people do not politicise what should be the most politically neutral office in the country?
Allowed? It's always been this way.

I'm not being snarky and saying that all courts are this politicized (even though they are) I'm saying the United States ones have literally been open about this from the start. When the Federalists lost the first "real" election in 1800 to the Jefferson Republicans they added gobs of new judges and adjusted the size of the Supreme Court so they could preserve their power past losing that election.  The Republicans repealed it and tried to impeach a Justice purely for his political views but it didn't take so nobody's tried it since. (It wouldn't matter too much in practice since two-thirds majorities in the Senate for removal are rare, especially in the last century. Though the Jefferson Republicans would have been able to do this had the practice not been rejected by their own members.)

Another reason for the current "feeling" though? Congress punts to the courts rather than legislates whenever it can. Why do anything about a highly contested issue like abortion when you can let the unelected judges "tie" your hands? Congress has instead "read the room" and restricted abortion a bunch because Roe/Casey gave them cover by not letting it be entirely banned. And this kind of stuff is bipartisan too, I'm not trying to frame this as Democratic failure that's just how things come out regarding abortion since the Republicans are proudly against it. Lots of gun people think the Republicans are just as chickenshit about guns and tell them to take it to the courts rather than make them have to vote on stuff. Same thing on "non-contentious" issues, does Congress really despise constitutional rights or are they relying on the courts to bail them out? Do detainees deserve constitutional rights? Let the courts decide! The legislation that led to the Obama Administration claiming it could ban books was signed by W. Bush who stated he thought it was unconstitutional and hoped the Supreme Court struck it down, so why did he sign it? Because who gives a shit, nobody will hear his lamentations (especially if most of the media likes the legislation) and hopefully the Court will protect people's rights, meanwhile he gets the political benefit from restricting that nasty free press ruining our politics until the Court "ties" their hands and ruining our politics by allowing a free press.

Same thing as executive orders. Every administration starts off with a flurry of these because the last guys did a flurry of them including on the way out of office. They want to change them or change them back. Obama to Trump to Biden just made it so obvious because the turnover of parties was so quick that people actually noticed this time. (Though weirdly they thought it was only bad that the guy they disliked was changing them this way, their guy was obviously just reversing those tyrannical actions.)

This isn't new though either really (executive orders kinda are as they've massively increased in numbers lately) especially if you remember your (not yours, ours) history about slavery. Congress could have banned slavery but didn't. You can blame the Senate if you want to be lame or you can recognize that slavery was massively contentious (IT LED TO A WAR) but people weren't trying to string things along to prevent it from being decided, that was the compromise. Both sides wanted to add states to unbalance the Senate and the "opposition" went from tolerant to containment to abolition. The pro-slavery people went from we can't get rid of this now to this is too important to actually we're helping the slaves. The slave states knew they were going to lose eventually based on trends and this was an existential threat to the Democratic Party as a whole because they were fading in the non-slave states. But luckily the Court was hearing a fugitive slave case, the Court would have narrowly decided this and indications are that it was planning to but the Democrats pushed the Court to "settle" slavery. The Court obliged and issued Dred Scott. Incoming President Buchanan in his inauguration speech praised the Court for settling things even though the decision wouldn't actually be known until later. But this also led to the Civil War despite "settling" things because the Republicans then swept the next two elections and were dominating the North, they were obviously going to reverse this in time, probably by appointing new Justices. So the slave states gambled on the Confederacy and instead got a whole swath of constitutional amendments including the one that would eventually extend constitutional right protections against the states. Tremendously massive L that they never got over.

Madrun Badrun

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #1079 on: June 26, 2022, 10:53:19 PM »
Just to add on, not undoing previous rulings added to the facade and mythology that the court was apolitical, and so this particular ruling really just exposed the issue but it's not something new.