Author Topic: House of the Dragon · GRRM on HBO's Iron Throne, D&D banished North of The Wall  (Read 9250 times)

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Nintex

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2nd episode was great. I like how it showed how powerful the Targaryens could be if they wanted to with that little display of Rhaenyra.

They really neutered poor Viserys in Kings' Landing.
🤴

Polident Hive

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Not shading GOT, but the armor designs are great here. Be it production values or a choice to show it’s an age of inexperienced men who value aesthetic and status over practicality in combat.

Tasty

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Not shading GOT, but the armor designs are great here. Be it production values or a choice to show it’s an age of inexperienced men who value aesthetic and status over practicality in combat.

Production has been AAAA 🔥🔥🔥 💯💯💯 both eps so far. I have a minor worry that it's going to fall apart at some point in the middle of the season tho lol. Hopefully that doesn't happen.

Phoenix Dark

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Not shading GOT, but the armor designs are great here. Be it production values or a choice to show it’s an age of inexperienced men who value aesthetic and status over practicality in combat.
The quote in the first episode about the men not knowing real battle/war reminded me of Catelyn's comment's to Renly and his supporters. From season two of GoT. The book...

They are still unblooded, Catelyn thought as she watched Lord Bryce goad Ser Robar into juggling a brace of daggers. It is all a game to them still, a tourney writ large, and all they see is the chance for glory and honor and spoils. They are boys drunk on song and story, and like all boys, they think themselves immortal.

“War will make them old,” Catelyn said, “as it did us.” She had been a girl when Robert and Ned and Jon Arryn raised their banners against Aerys Targaryen, a woman by the time the fighting was done. “I pity them.”

“Why?” Lord Rowan asked her. “Look at them. They’re young and strong, full of life and laughter. And lust, aye, more lust than they know what to do with. There will be many a bastard bred this night, I promise you. Why pity?”

“Because it will not last,” Catelyn answered, sadly. “Because they are the knights of summer, and winter is coming.”

“Lady Catelyn, you are wrong.” Brienne regarded her with eyes as blue as her armor. “Winter will never come for the likes of us. Should we die in battle, they will surely sing of us, and it’s always summer in the songs. In the songs all knights are gallant, all maids are beautiful, and the sun is always shining.”

Winter comes for all of us, Catelyn thought. For me, it came when Ned died. It will come for you too, child, and sooner than you like. She did not have the heart to say it.
010

Tasty

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Ok that seals it I'm loading my Kindle up with ASOIAF for my week in Vegas

HaughtyFrank

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Not shading GOT, but the armor designs are great here. Be it production values or a choice to show it’s an age of inexperienced men who value aesthetic and status over practicality in combat.

Costumes and armor are the kind of things I really took for granted until I saw other shows do it badly. And I mean it's not just the design but the actual craftmanship put into those pieces. Some of the stuff we've seen from Rings of Power looks actually worse despite the insane budget (though maybe it'll better in the final show). HBO seems to have a well oiled machine going when it comes to game of thrones.


Phoenix Dark

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Not shading GOT, but the armor designs are great here. Be it production values or a choice to show it’s an age of inexperienced men who value aesthetic and status over practicality in combat.

Costumes and armor are the kind of things I really took for granted until I saw other shows do it badly. And I mean it's not just the design but the actual craftmanship put into those pieces. Some of the stuff we've seen from Rings of Power looks actually worse despite the insane budget (though maybe it'll better in the final show). HBO seems to have a well oiled machine going when it comes to game of thrones.

Just saw the headline about LOTR costing 700mil+. You're right, perhaps we haven't seen the final product in the trailers but what we have seen in terms of costume design, CGI, and locations has not been impressive. At all. Certainly not when compared to S3-S8 GoT or HOTD.
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BIONIC

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This show is way too good so far brehs  :whoo
Margs

Tasty

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https://twitter.com/THR/status/1561835586331238402

whew we back

https://twitter.com/Variety/status/1564349401702621184

:whew

Quote
And for the record, people are still enjoying the premiere—its viewership has jumped up from 20 million viewers to 25.

:whew :whew :whew
« Last Edit: August 30, 2022, 06:17:49 PM by Tasty »

Tasty

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That number for HotD Ep 2 is within 0.1 million viewers of GoT Season 8 Ep 2.

We're already at endgame numbers :whew



Bebpo

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https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/house-of-the-dragon-miguel-sapochnik-leaving-1235208276/

My GoT friend said this

Quote
Alan Taylor is the director of Thor 2 The Dark World, and the terrible finale in the second last season of Thrones where they all go beyond the wall and do stupid shit. In fact. In that season he was also the "replacement" for Sapochnik for the big action episode.
"Sapochnik is leaving and Taylor is taking over" is the worst GoT news ever.

 :lol

I guess House of the Dragon had/has a good one season run? Why they would replace him with someone from the original series staff when the original series S8 almost killed the franchise...wonder if this is a Zaslav pick.

Tasty

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Quote
"Sapochnik is leaving and Taylor is taking over" is the worst GoT news ever.

Yawn. More empty drama from GoT nerds. Congdol has always been the original and primary showrunner and will remain so.

Miguel is insanely talented, don't get me wrong. But Taylor was a director: which means he didn't choose the episode's story beats, he didn't write the script, and he didn't shoot the footage himself. Don't conflate directing in TV with directing in film -- TV's analogue is executive producing/showrunning.

"Congdol AND Sapochnik leaving, ties with GRRM severed" is a far, far worse headline and that's not even the 5 "worst" GoT news I can think of off the top of my head.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2022, 08:20:49 PM by Tasty »

HaughtyFrank

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As long as he wasn't in the writing chair for the final seasons I don't think this is too much to worry about.

Though it does make one wonder what drove Sapochnik to leave. Seemingly he wasn't too hot on joining the project in the first place, so maybe that's why

Quote
Sapochnik worked for months helping develop Dragon with his friend Condal before coming on board. Sapochnik had been very reluctant to officially join the project, a stance that perhaps foreshadowed his current exit. “Miguel said, ‘I’m never doing Thrones again,’” Condal recalled.

“I went through a lot of vacillating,” Sapochnik admitted. “Ryan and I had a long-standing relationship and we work well together and we really like each other — that was half the battle. As we got deeper into the discussions, I realized I had to shit or get off the pot.”

Phoenix Dark

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Alan Taylor also directed some of the best episodes of GoT, including the last two episodes of S1. Sounds good to me. He didn't write that terrible "beyond the Wall" episode so I'm not putting it on him.

Sapochnik is certainly the better action director, and S2 is going to have some massive battles...but at this point after 8 Thrones seasons and these two HOTD eps it's clear the direction/cinematography has never been a problem. Show will be fine.
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Tasty

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Some of these Twitter reactions acting like D&D are coming back :doge

Nintex

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Episode 3 was great.

Holy shit, Daemon is one crazy motherfucker  :whew
🤴

BIONIC

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Dude’s so fucking petty I love it  :lol
Margs

Polident Hive

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Book people are saying (autocorrect, take the wheel) Allison in the book had her personality and scheming grafted onto Otto? Helped get audiences comfortable with HOTD by likening him to Littlefinger. She seemed to enjoy her station this episode and further expanding it with the older actress.

Tywin once spoke about his father as a good but weak man. Well, his ancestor Jason also sucks and had no game. Tywin really turned it around and got a badass song for his house.

Bebpo

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Book people are saying (autocorrect, take the wheel) Allison in the book had her personality and scheming grafted onto Otto? Helped get audiences comfortable with HOTD by likening him to Littlefinger. She seemed to enjoy her station this episode and further expanding it with the older actress.

Spoilers for end of S1
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Alicent at the end of S1/start of S2 is pretty different from this character in the show. Much less sympathetic. More Cersei.

But there's still like 10-15 years of timeskip to go, so she could easily harden by then.
[close]

HaughtyFrank

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It's interesting to make a little time jump between every episode. I assume it's similar in the book?

Means you need to pay a little more attention to keep up but it also adds a nice momentum to the story.

Potato

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So I completely caved in and watched episode 1. I actually liked it, but it has a long way to go to make me a fan. Later GoT seasons have a lot to answer for.
Spud

Tasty

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So I completely caved in and watched episode 1. I actually liked it, but it has a long way to go to make me a fan. Later GoT seasons have a lot to answer for.

Fantheorywanking says they're trying to retcon the last two seasons. I wouldn't say there's zero proof, either.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/house-dragon-fans-noticed-very-160000094.html

Tasty

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It's interesting to make a little time jump between every episode. I assume it's similar in the book?

Means you need to pay a little more attention to keep up but it also adds a nice momentum to the story.

The book is a fictional history book, not a narrative, and I haven't read it but I assume it glosses over things and doesn't include much of the interpersonal drama that will compose this show.

Pissy F Benny

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I like how the show goes from a full 4k to dropping to like 720p max during battle scenes (in vidya terms) :scust

They need to find another way to show epic battlez with dragons cos how they do it now looks like shit.
(ice)

HaughtyFrank

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It's interesting to make a little time jump between every episode. I assume it's similar in the book?

Means you need to pay a little more attention to keep up but it also adds a nice momentum to the story.

The book is a fictional history book, not a narrative, and I haven't read it but I assume it glosses over things and doesn't include much of the interpersonal drama that will compose this show.

Ah interesting. Sounds like it took some real work then to adapt this.

Tasty

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It's interesting to make a little time jump between every episode. I assume it's similar in the book?

Means you need to pay a little more attention to keep up but it also adds a nice momentum to the story.

The book is a fictional history book, not a narrative, and I haven't read it but I assume it glosses over things and doesn't include much of the interpersonal drama that will compose this show.

Ah interesting. Sounds like it took some real work then to adapt this.

That's why it's exciting. :D Unfortunately the "end" of various plotlines are known, but the road to get there seems well-written enough so far.

Pissy F Benny

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Surely having the outline already there and being able to fill in the blanks yourselves is a better thing to work with than full on novels already devoured any times over by a solid amount of the fanbase  :elon

Also having a relative handful of characters to focus on instead of starting with loads to begin with has made this feel more focused and better than Thrones (which I never got into).
« Last Edit: September 06, 2022, 04:34:43 PM by Pissy F Benny »
(ice)

Potato

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So I completely caved in and watched episode 1. I actually liked it, but it has a long way to go to make me a fan. Later GoT seasons have a lot to answer for.

Fantheorywanking says they're trying to retcon the last two seasons. I wouldn't say there's zero proof, either.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/house-dragon-fans-noticed-very-160000094.html
Storyline wasn't really the problem with those seasons, it was the execution though.
Spud

Nintex

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Lots of small nods and references to Game of Thrones.

Viserys had the same shit eating grin as Danny for instance.  :lol
I must say that they nailed the casting for the Targaryens.
🤴

Tasty

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So I completely caved in and watched episode 1. I actually liked it, but it has a long way to go to make me a fan. Later GoT seasons have a lot to answer for.

Fantheorywanking says they're trying to retcon the last two seasons. I wouldn't say there's zero proof, either.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/house-dragon-fans-noticed-very-160000094.html
Storyline wasn't really the problem with those seasons, it was the execution though.

Some of the storyline was absolutely the problem. I don't believe Arya will kill the Night King (who doesn't exist in the books anyways) in ASOIAF. Most of the complaints of the ending probably aren't even possible in the books. Faegon alone changes most of the calculus surrounding Dany, not to mention Book Euron's Cthulufication ambitions and Lady Stoneheart.

Tasty

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Also having a relative handful of characters to focus on instead of starting with loads to begin with has made this feel more focused and better than Thrones (which I never got into).

I understand what you mean but personally, I always saw the Starks as the main chars of the series and it wasn't too difficult juggling 4 of their plots (Cat/Robb, Arya, Bran, Jon). Even easier after the Red Wedding. Theon and Sansa I always put in other plots' camps lol.

Tasty

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Pissy F Benny

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I might need to give Thrones another chance, I never made it past the first series besides watching a couple of the more notorious final series episodes as a kind of zeitgeist thing so I could lol at it too with everyone else.
(ice)

Polident Hive

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Is it sustainable with all the time jumps? Talking season to season. Or is the pitch, fitting the title, an anthology about the Targaryens? Say, covering a different generation in season 2? That’d be interesting, too. Given enough time, say season 4 or 5, it loops around to Aerys and Robert’s Rebellion without feeling like GOT flashbacks recycled.

Tasty

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I might need to give Thrones another chance, I never made it past the first series besides watching a couple of the more notorious final series episodes as a kind of zeitgeist thing so I could lol at it too with everyone else.

It's a shame where it goes but it's quite a great journey getting there. The Season 5 episode "Hardhome" is my personal high watermark for the type of episode it is (and my favorite of the series).

Thankfully the seasons are fairly short and quite bingeable.

Tasty

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Is it sustainable with all the time jumps? Talking season to season. Or is the pitch, fitting the title, an anthology about the Targaryens? Say, covering a different generation in season 2? That’d be interesting, too. Given enough time, say season 4 or 5, it loops around to Aerys and Robert’s Rebellion without feeling like GOT flashbacks recycled.

I think GRRM said this current "era" could be 2-3 seasons, with another couple seasons chronicling other eras of Targs.

We don't know if the series will move chronologically or if it'll jump around.

Nintex

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So I completely caved in and watched episode 1. I actually liked it, but it has a long way to go to make me a fan. Later GoT seasons have a lot to answer for.

Fantheorywanking says they're trying to retcon the last two seasons. I wouldn't say there's zero proof, either.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/house-dragon-fans-noticed-very-160000094.html
Storyline wasn't really the problem with those seasons, it was the execution though.

Some of the storyline was absolutely the problem. I don't believe Arya will kill the Night King (who doesn't exist in the books anyways) in ASOIAF. Most of the complaints of the ending probably aren't even possible in the books. Faegon alone changes most of the calculus surrounding Dany, not to mention Book Euron's Cthulufication ambitions and Lady Stoneheart.
Biggest cop out was the Night King dying in the first battle.

Like earlier on they have these visions of a frozen Kings Landing and I think at some point it was the intention to have the show down with the Night King there or much closer to it.
I don't think GRMM will have the Night King defeated at Winterfell. From there on out the events don't make any sense.
🤴

Tasty

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Like I said, there isn't even a Night King in the books, so how the White Walkers (or rather Wights and Others) get resolved is honestly anyone's guess.

Polident Hive

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Always was partial to the theories that it wouldn’t get resolved. Gets manageable but it’s a new age the land. Rather than a speed bump for the political squabbles.

Is it sustainable with all the time jumps? Talking season to season. Or is the pitch, fitting the title, an anthology about the Targaryens? Say, covering a different generation in season 2? That’d be interesting, too. Given enough time, say season 4 or 5, it loops around to Aerys and Robert’s Rebellion without feeling like GOT flashbacks recycled.

I think GRRM said this current "era" could be 2-3 seasons, with another couple seasons chronicling other eras of Targs.

We don't know if the series will move chronologically or if it'll jump around.

Huh. Yeah. When they shift to new actors, and they have with the boy aging up 15 years in 3, I assumed that’s that.

Bebpo

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I mean half of Game of Thrones TV is made up fanfiction.

The books left off when Jon Snow died and Stannis was going to fight Ramsey Bolton. Dany never even left the east. That's like S5 or S6 of the TV. House of the Dragon is definitely in a better position having the full story already completed and acknowledged by most people as a good satisfying story from start to finish.

HaughtyFrank

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The crabfeeder is such a killer design

https://twitter.com/WiCnet/status/1567262677440897030

mormapope

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A certified HBO banger that has a lot of depth and is fucking gorgeously shot and has a bonfide erect budget for every episode

 :rejoice

Rhaenyra/her actress is a way, way, way more convincing character than Dany. Dany or Emilia Clarke was always a weak spot in GoT. Her and fucking wood boy dumbest Jon got way too much time and energy in GoT.

Matt Smith/Daemon is the most erectable character in all of television.
OH!

Phoenix Dark

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Like I said, there isn't even a Night King in the books, so how the White Walkers (or rather Wights and Others) get resolved is honestly anyone's guess.
There's a Nights King but he's dead in the books.

I thought ep 3 was alright. I didn't like the battle, which kinda felt rushed and a bit too later-seasons GoT. The reactions to it are pretty good so I'm in the minority on that. Also starting to worry about some of the time jumping. I get it...they're basically setting the table for a very specific moment that's coming up. But skipping from Rhaenyra running out the council room crying to Alicent being pregnant with her second child just feels weird. Seems like they could have shown the confrontation between Alicent and Rhae, the wedding, and more of the Stepstones war beginning.

Really liked the stuff with the stag/hunt. Seeing Viserys reluctantly play his part in a game or prophesy he doesn't want anymore, which could hurt his daughter, was great.
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Bebpo

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Yeah, I thought ep3 was just ok. Ep2 best one so far.

Phoenix Dark

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Really liked that episode for a variety of reasons. Starting out in the Storm Lands and getting a different set/look was cool. The return of Daemon and seeing him and the king share some laughs/good times was cool too. Yet the focus was largely on Rhaenyra and the rising and falling of her prospects. I still think it's been a mistake not to quickly establish that she had multiple supporters in court by this point. She should be more than just a sulking princess oblivious to the basic political moves needed to secure her throne. That kinda changed this ep thankfully and hopefully it continues in the next ep. Clearly they delayed the introduction of "the greens and the blacks"...maybe that happens in the next episode.

Otto is great on the show but he's hurt by the fact that he doesn't have a counter balance to his scheming. Littlefinger had Varys, and they worked against each other to some degree (in the show). Plus there was Ned, Cersei, Tyrion, Tywin, etc playing off them both at various points in the early seasons. Yet with Otto he's only playing off Viserys, who is largely an idiot. I'm surprised Lyonel Strong hasn't had more scenes, as someone who could balance out Otto. He'll get more scenes coming up but point being...only having the scheming being one sided has been a mistake.

Surprised we haven't gotten a scene with Rhaenyra and Aegon btw.

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Tasty

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This track brehs :whew

Bebpo

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Was a fine ep, but it's the first ep where I just want the show to hurry up and get where it's going this season.

Rahxephon91

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This isn’t anywhere near as good as GoT.

Phoenix Dark

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This isn’t anywhere near as good as GoT.
It's good, not great. Could have said the same about early S1 of GoT which IMO didn't become really good until the final four episodes or so. Bebpo probably speaks for a lot of people. I think whether people read the books or not, they generally know what this is building towards. The first show and world ensure a lot of people will be patient, and the ratings keep getting better so clearly it's working. Once the main story kicks in I think it has the potential to be a great show. One thing that's really good so far, especially when compared to GoT, is the writing. That's only gonna get better as the plot unfurls.

Another thing I liked about this episode was that there was a return to a sense of foreboding or even dread, which hasn't been there since the first episode. Pieces are falling into place. It's coming.
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Tasty

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Was a fine ep, but it's the first ep where I just want the show to hurry up and get where it's going this season.

You said that about the first episode though... :thinking

Rahxephon91

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The show is good. The art direction is fantastic.

Yet this may sound stupid, but GoT was more fun.

What I mean is GoT just had so many moving parts, so many plots, and characters. This was my sales pitch to my gf. That even if you don't like so and so character plot, there no doubt will be one you like.

I belive seasons 1-4 are the best televesion you can ever have. I think ASOIF is one of the best book series because it simply has something for everyone and every aspect is strong.

We recently rewatched GoT because my GF had never seen it. Wasn't even aware of the spoilers so everything was a surprise to her. It was a fun ride, probably the most fun I've ever had engaging with media. Because there's just incredible characters and stories to follow. You can't wait to see how certain paths will meet and develop.

But it's also the pacing of the story. It feels like a story that is playing a long game. Now I know we all have problems with the ending, but in the moment it feels like you're watching a saga. Plots and characters have time to breathe and develop.

I don't get that feeling from this show yet.

Pissy F Benny

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This ep was kinda dull but important for all the pieces falling into place, hopefully things ramp up in the next one and they don't fall into the Westwood trap of over relying on the tease.
(ice)

Pissy F Benny

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spoiler (click to show/hide)
btw Rhaenyra turning from a miserable cow and heavily implied lesbian into a cock loving whore after an incestuous fumble was a little too silly for me
[close]
(ice)

BIONIC

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Although I didn’t hate it, it’s easily the worst episode so far.

Just bizarrely melodramatic high school drama shit, and the framing of the sex scenes  :yuck

Viserys and Daemon were overall high points though.
Margs

MMaRsu

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I loved it

Delicious tv

The incest was pretty cray cray
What

MMaRsu

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spoiler (click to show/hide)
btw Rhaenyra turning from a miserable cow and heavily implied lesbian into a cock loving whore after an incestuous fumble was a little too silly for me
[close]

She got a little taste of the D, can you blame her she wanted to finish the job 🤷🏼‍♂️
What

Nintex

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I always enjoy the episodes where you see more of the world outside of the castles and battles.

Viserys explained it quite well, the fire and chaos in the dragon blood of the Targaryens. They can go from 0 to 100 real quick.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Although I'm not sure that letting the princess know there is Plan B tea was the best course of action
[close]
🤴

Tasty

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Some of the plot movements this episode are a little... puzzling.

Daemon and Rhaenyra get spotted by some guard type dude. "OK," the audience thinks, "this is how everyone finds out about them."

Except... this is before they bang. They're seen on the streets, not a pleasure house. And White Worm kid or whomever is who eventually rats on them. So... plot-wise, what was the point of them being spotted on the streets? The only thing I could think of is if Rhaenyra denied the whole thing, then the guard would be brought in as an independent witness and cause her story to crumble. But... Rhaenyra gets out in front of it (in a way) and admits that she was out with Daemon (just not banging him).

Same kinda double-beat with Rhaenyra banging two different dudes. With this one, I thought, "Aha! Daemon is gonna deny it, they're gonna check Rhaenyra's hymen, and she's gonna scapegoat Cole." But no, Daemon admits it to Viserys. Then I thought, "Aha! She's gonna get pregnant, and it's gonna be a Jaime/Robert 'who's the real daddy?' type situation." But no, she gets a morning after pill tea right at the end of the episode (it was also ambiguous to me with the focus this episode on "maidenhood": did the possibly-magical tea regrow Rhaenyra's hymen?)

I guess we didn't see her actually drink it, so maybe there will be consequences for her banging Cole that specific evening in that specific set of circumstances. But if it doesn't lead to anything other than "Rhaenyra's banging Cole on the reg now," then it was a very odd double-beat to choose to include in this episode. Same with the guard interaction.