Game

[magus]

i'll give 1 million dollar to the man who can find me a review that talks about the game without blabbering about linearity

[OptimoPeach]

^
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=19073416&postcount=78

I'll accept my million in 20s, tyvm

[Great Rumbler]

^
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=19073416&postcount=78

I'll accept my million in 20s, tyvm

The first half of the game is probably not very replayable because it's so linear

[OptimoPeach]

Goddamnit, Bebpo

[Third]

And..

Bottom Line: The level cap makes a very balanced and challenging linear game,

U blind bro? 

[OptimoPeach]

To be fair, a few isolated mentions don't count as blabbering in relation to the giant walls of text they're buried in

[cool breeze]

so, just a quick summary of the recent stuff:  western reviews are poor and PS3 version is better? I'm not gonna buy this for a long time, just curious is all.

[Himu]

I don't think I ever saw a main entry Final Fantasy receive this much criticism from the gaming press.

As it stands now, FF13 has a lower score than FFX-2 on Metacritic.

[Beezy]

It's funny how the two games that originally made me wanna run out and get a PS3 turned out not so great (FF13 and MGS4). Only ZoE3 is left. Hopefully it ends up being multiplatform if it comes out this gen.

[Himu]

It's funny how the two games that originally made me wanna run out and get a PS3 turned out not so great (FF13 and MGS4). Only ZoE3 is left. Hopefully it ends up being multiplatform if it comes out this gen.

Demon's Souls?
Valkyria?

[Rman]

The scores aren't terrible--above average or so.

[demi]

http://eternalsession.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/final-fantasy-12-boxart.jpg

"I dont even have to play the game! Amazing! One of a kind!" - 10/10




http://gaygamer.net/images/final-fantasy-xiii-360.jpg

"I have to run through tubes. It's ok I guess." - 5/10






Hard hitting journalism

[Himu]

The scores aren't terrible--above average or so.

Of course they aren't terrible.

But I've never seen a main FF get this much criticism in reviews, ever. It's usually a 10/10 or 9/10 type of game when it comes to reviews, although there's exceptions. However, so far at least, this game is getting scores far lower than that.

[magus]

I don't think I ever saw a main entry Final Fantasy receive this much criticism from the gaming press.

As it stands now, FF13 has a lower score than FFX-2 on Metacritic.

see? you know something with the review went wrong here

the game can be linear,can have a stupid plot,a boring battle system but it simply can't be worse than x-2,there is like... no way,it's mathematically impossible

oh and bebpo review doesn't count,it has to be on a site like ign or gamespot

[Himu]

But X-2 has a good battle system and isn't a series of corridors.

[Don Flamenco]

This thing is getting 5s, 7s, mostly 8s.  These are terrible reviews for a Final Fantasy game.  Maybe it's not the worst FF game, maybe it is...either way, they need to get back to their roots with this series.  S-E seems to think the fan base has moved on from loving stats, leveling, finding new gear, dealing with equipping a bunch of shit, and...well, doing just about anything besides battles.  I think they'd get a much better reception for a game heavy on JRPG/FF trappings than they think.

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

Which games have more complex models that XIII?  Not many.

ps3 ff13 has tearing, some bad texture artifacting, and a shoddy frame rate at times...

... i'm surprised you aren't FUCKING SUICIDING OMG!!!!

but hey, the story is shit, the characters are dire, the battle system is overhyped wank, the frame rate is up the wazzo, the textures are spaz city, and it tears like Gary Glitters new girlfriend .. WHATS NOT TO LIKE!?!

:/

 

[magus]

But X-2 has a good battle system and isn't a series of corridors.

nah! this is X-2

1.) Visit the temples, kill all the monsters flooding out from underground, defeat the head monsters (which, coincidentally, are Yuna's old Aeons under Shuyin's control) and save people's lives -- in exchange for all their money. Three cheers for disaster capitalism!

2.) Visit all the places in the world unaffected by the rampaging monster swarms and take a few hours to help lovesick monkeys find their soulmates, run PR campaigns for amusement parks, dig around in the desert for scrap metal, search the world for eligible brides for some twit, play the Spira equivalent of pogs (or Magic: the Gathering, Yu-Gi-Oh, Beyblades, Bakugan, or whatever the hell it is the uncool kids think is cool this year), or chase chocobos. The innocent people getting ripped to shreds can wait. Not like them or the monsters are going anywhere.

3.) Have a lot of asinine conversations, sparing the player from having to do even an iota of mental work for himself:

might i add that x-2 good battle system is "it has a job system" and the game rips everything from final fantasy x (which should be another strike might i add) which is a series of corridors.. if the fact that you get to decide from which tube you start (the lovesick monkeys or the chocobo chase? choices choices) running turns the game into a masterpiece... well i don't know what to say to you

This thing is getting 5s, 7s, mostly 8s.  These are terrible reviews for a Final Fantasy game.  Maybe it's not the worst FF game, maybe it is...either way, they need to get back to their roots with this series.  S-E seems to think the fan base has moved on from loving stats, leveling, finding new gear, dealing with equipping a bunch of shit, and...well, doing just about anything besides battles.  I think they'd get a much better reception for a game heavy on JRPG/FF trappings than they think.

final fantasy 12 was anything but classic and it got tons and tons of 9
it's not a matter of getting back to his roots
if anything i might sound stupid saying this but it's hard for me to not think anything else
isn't this the first multiplatform final fantasy?
wasn't the last final fantasy with a classic structure released over 10 years ago?

[Himu]

But X-2 has a good battle system and isn't a series of corridors.

nah! this is X-2

1.) Visit the temples, kill all the monsters flooding out from underground, defeat the head monsters (which, coincidentally, are Yuna's old Aeons under Shuyin's control) and save people's lives -- in exchange for all their money. Three cheers for disaster capitalism!

2.) Visit all the places in the world unaffected by the rampaging monster swarms and take a few hours to help lovesick monkeys find their soulmates, run PR campaigns for amusement parks, dig around in the desert for scrap metal, search the world for eligible brides for some twit, play the Spira equivalent of pogs (or Magic: the Gathering, Yu-Gi-Oh, Beyblades, Bakugan, or whatever the hell it is the uncool kids think is cool this year), or chase chocobos. The innocent people getting ripped to shreds can wait. Not like them or the monsters are going anywhere.

3.) Have a lot of asinine conversations, sparing the player from having to do even an iota of mental work for himself:

might i add that x-2 good battle system is "it has a job system" and the game rips everything from final fantasy x (which should be another strike might i add) which is a series of corridors.. if the fact that you get to decide from which tube you start (the lovesick monkeys or the chocobo chase? choices choices) running turns the game into a masterpiece... well i don't know what to say to you

This thing is getting 5s, 7s, mostly 8s.  These are terrible reviews for a Final Fantasy game.  Maybe it's not the worst FF game, maybe it is...either way, they need to get back to their roots with this series.  S-E seems to think the fan base has moved on from loving stats, leveling, finding new gear, dealing with equipping a bunch of shit, and...well, doing just about anything besides battles.  I think they'd get a much better reception for a game heavy on JRPG/FF trappings than they think.

final fantasy 12 was anything but classic and it got tons and tons of 9
it's not a matter of getting back to his roots

When he says go back to roots, he means clear defined jrpg roots. As in, what he basically described later in the post.

[magus]

that surely worked for blue dragon

also everytime someone will complain about a screenshot featuring generic hero rambling
i'm going to post this

[Beezy]

It's funny how the two games that originally made me wanna run out and get a PS3 turned out not so great (FF13 and MGS4). Only ZoE3 is left. Hopefully it ends up being multiplatform if it comes out this gen.

Demon's Souls?
Valkyria?

I wanna play them, but I wouldn't drop $300 on a new system for those alone. I would've bought a PS3 just to play MGS4 if I had the money to back when it came out.

[Don Flamenco]

that surely worked for blue dragon

you're missing the point.  

they can do something different like FF12.  Every game in the series tries something different, but with a certain foundation of JRPG gameplay.  Even XII kept the usual stat/equipment grinding...hell, it may have even amped that up more than previous entries.  but this time, "different" apparently means ditching just about everything people have come to like about the series and shooting straight for style over substance.  

all I'm saying is that out of all the comments you see about this game, one of them conspicuously isn't "awesome, I wouldn't mind at all if future games in the series are just like this."  Instead, it's fans going through existential crises for Square-Enix, wondering if this is really good or not.  And that probably means it isn't good at all.  This game won't be remembered all that fondly.  

[Powerslave]

I am so so so so so so so so so so so so disappointed in the direction Final Fantasy has taken after FF9 that I just stopped giving the series too much attention. Stopped discussing and talking about it, I hate on it exclusively but deep down it tortures my soul. Why has it become so much of a shitfest and why can't people see we're settling for mediocrity after the three masterpieces on Playstation?

[AdmiralViscen]

I am so so so so so so so so so so so so disappointed in the direction Final Fantasy has taken after FF9 that I just stopped giving the series too much attention. Stopped discussing and talking about it, I hate on it exclusively but deep down it tortures my soul. Why has it become so much of a shitfest and why can't people see we're settling for mediocrity after the three masterpieces on Playstation?

Yup.

I have a friend who's a bigger FF cigarillo than me and even he's thinking about not getting FF13 at this point.

[demi]

And the insignificant become more

[recursivelyenumerable]

S-E seems to think the fan base has moved on from loving stats, leveling, finding new gear, dealing with equipping a bunch of shit, and...well, doing just about anything besides battles.  I think they'd get a much better reception for a game heavy on JRPG/FF trappings than they think.

I don't really get this comment.  I don't think you can conclude much of anything about what S-E thinks about the fanbase from one game.  As far as I can see, they think the fanbase has varied tastes and they are producing a variety of games to accommodate them, hence we get this (stripped down to battles and story), FF12 (more exploration, less story/cinematics), FF14 (MMO), FF Gaiden: 4 Warriors of Light for DS (retro style), Crystal Bearers (minimal battles, maximal exploration and "fluff" ... the opposite of FF13 in a way), Versus/Agito (we'll see), etc.  It's hard to say the series is moving in any one specific direction.  Actually, if anything the general trend is toward less linearity and story focus, and 13 is just an exception to that.

[MCD]

you tell them recursive my boy.

[Himu]

S-E seems to think the fan base has moved on from loving stats, leveling, finding new gear, dealing with equipping a bunch of shit, and...well, doing just about anything besides battles.  I think they'd get a much better reception for a game heavy on JRPG/FF trappings than they think.

I don't really get this comment.  I don't think you can conclude much of anything about what S-E thinks about the fanbase from one game.  As far as I can see, they think the fanbase has varied tastes and they are producing a variety of games to accommodate them, hence we get this (stripped down to battles and story), FF12 (more exploration, less story/cinematics), FF14 (MMO), FF Gaiden: 4 Warriors of Light for DS (retro style), Crystal Bearers (minimal battles, maximal exploration and "fluff" ... the opposite of FF13 in a way), Versus/Agito (we'll see), etc.  It's hard to say the series is moving in any one specific direction.  Actually, if anything the general trend is toward less linearity and story focus, and 13 is just an exception to that.

And yet most of those games bomb.

They need to keep elements from previous games and build up on them while innovating at the same time.

This is the problem with FF: it is completely unrecognizable for their main audience - who has supported them over the years, and I think that's why their sales continue to lower: Little Jimmy is going to have to wait another 4-5 years for a game he may or may NOT like.

[Don Flamenco]

S-E seems to think the fan base has moved on from loving stats, leveling, finding new gear, dealing with equipping a bunch of shit, and...well, doing just about anything besides battles.  I think they'd get a much better reception for a game heavy on JRPG/FF trappings than they think.

I don't really get this comment.  I don't think you can conclude much of anything about what S-E thinks about the fanbase from one game.  As far as I can see, they think the fanbase has varied tastes and they are producing a variety of games to accommodate them, hence we get this (stripped down to battles and story), FF12 (more exploration, less story/cinematics), FF14 (MMO), FF Gaiden: 4 Warriors of Light for DS (retro style), Crystal Bearers (minimal battles, maximal exploration and "fluff" ... the opposite of FF13 in a way), Versus/Agito (we'll see), etc.  It's hard to say the series is moving in any one specific direction.  Actually, if anything the general trend is toward less linearity and story focus, and 13 is just an exception to that.

I think a mainline Final Fantasy game is a pretty good barometer for what Square thinks about the game's fanbase.  It's their most public game. 

[OptimoPeach]

Totally unrelated, but at this point why are their MMOs still being numbered as part of the mainline series when there are already a zillion other spinoffs as it is?

[Don Flamenco]

Totally unrelated, but at this point why are their MMOs still being numbered as part of the mainline series when there are already a zillion other spinoffs as it is?

for the $$$$

[Himu]

Totally unrelated, but at this point why are their MMOs still being numbered as part of the mainline series when there are already a zillion other spinoffs as it is?

Because the mmo's give them their best source of revenue and having a number = more revenue

[magus]

Powerslave implying that FF8 is better than FF10

smh

you're missing the point. 

they can do something different like FF12.  Every game in the series tries something different, but with a certain foundation of JRPG gameplay.  Even XII kept the usual stat/equipment grinding...hell, it may have even amped that up more than previous entries.  but this time, "different" apparently means ditching just about everything people have come to like about the series and shooting straight for style over substance. 

all I'm saying is that out of all the comments you see about this game, one of them conspicuously isn't "awesome, I wouldn't mind at all if future games in the series are just like this."  Instead, it's fans going through existential crises for Square-Enix, wondering if this is really good or not.  And that probably means it isn't good at all.  This game won't be remembered all that fondly.

going by this post,you would think that what people like about final fantasy are world maps,towns and dungeons with more than two hallways and at that point i have to wonder again for yet another time why final fantasy x didn't got any 7 or 8 for being too linear,the only conclusion i can reach? either FFX was needed to push PS2 away or reviewer were suffering from mass hypnosis and it did take them 10 years to awake from their slumbers!

of course i'm wondering if this is really good or not,the people that says it's bad just go "LINEARLINEARLINEARLINEARLINEARLINEARLINEARLINEARLINEARLINEARLINEARLINEARLINEARLINEAR
LINEARLINEARLINEARLINEARLINEARLINEARLINEARLINEARLINEARLINEARLINEARLINEARLINEARLINEARLINEARLINEAR"
and that seems really stupid like when i read a review of blue dragon and the reviewer complained that the villain was a bald old man (for comparison... have you ever read a review of DQ8 complaining that the villain is a jester? no? i wonder why...) up to this day i still haven't the slighest clue about the game besides that "it's no final fantasy" which almost broke my irony detector
the one who says it's good just don't tell me much about the game besides that it's good
so while i wonder if the game it's any good,when the argument that the bad side make is so stupid,i can't help but bet my money on the good side

[Himu]

You are not looking into this with a clear head.

The problem isn't that it's linear. The problem is that it holds your hand. Completely.

[AdmiralViscen]

I'm pretty sure reviews did have some remarks about abandoning the world map in FFX. I sure did.

But the dungeons were not hallways in that game. Right at the beginning you have that jungle dungeon thing that is a web of branching paths. And you had those puzzle temples too. And, uh, towns.

[maxy]

I am so so so so so so so so so so so so disappointed in the direction Final Fantasy has taken after FF9 that I just stopped giving the series too much attention. Stopped discussing and talking about it, I hate on it exclusively but deep down it tortures my soul. Why has it become so much of a shitfest and why can't people see we're settling for mediocrity after the three masterpieces on Playstation?

Yup.

I have a friend who's a bigger FF cigarillo than me and even he's thinking about not getting FF13 at this point.

I have a co-worker who bought a PS3 just-to-play Final Fantasy XIII and after reading a bunch of reviews yesterday he decided to not purchase it anymore. I had to convince him otherwise!

Been nice knowing you!


"We need a plan!"
"Since when heroes ever needed plans!Heh"

[magus]

You are not looking into this with a clear head.

The problem isn't that it's linear. The problem is that it holds your hand. Completely.

hand holding in what? battles?

IT'S A FLAN,GO LULU
OMG IT FLIES GO WAKKA
IT'S ARMORED GO AURON GO GO GO

[Don Flamenco]

  holy shit.  I am so outta any thread that has to do with FFXIII for life.  I guess its been a few years, but I forgot that mainline Final Fantasy releases bring out the crazies.  It's like watching Star Wars movies in isolation, then when a new one comes out, you go to the theater and everyone's talking about how awesome Jar Jar Binks is. 

The game trailers review got me kinda excited again.

[magus]

oh come on we are just talking 
calling me crazy is a low blow 
i don't even own a console where to play the game (or i would have already done so,ignoring every comment and posted some impression) i just feel irked everytime a big Jrpg get released,i have to wade trough so much drama because reviewers said it's too linear,or too classic,or not enough innovative

[Don Flamenco]

sorry, I guess that looks like I'm calling you out...I'm not.  It's more about threads on other forums where people are all like "Hopu-chan!!1~ Uguu~~~what's gameplay~~?" 

I'm just talking about the sum total of my experience in FF threads over the past week.

[recursivelyenumerable]

I think a mainline Final Fantasy game is a pretty good barometer for what Square thinks about the game's fanbase.  It's their most public game. 

So ... SE thinks the FF fanbase wanted a relatively open adventure with reduced cinematic quotient back in 2006, but a few years later we want a super-linear and story-focused game, BUT a year from now we'll have completely turned around and will want a (presumably more open) MMO?  SE thinks we're a bit schizo, apparently.   

[demi]

The game is out this tuesday. If you interested, you'll play it and feel free to post in the thread. Otherwise dont waste our bandwidth - seems easy enough

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

It's funny how the two games that originally made me wanna run out and get a PS3 turned out not so great (FF13 and MGS4). Only ZoE3 is left. Hopefully it ends up being multiplatform if it comes out this gen.

Demon's Souls?
Valkyria?

I wanna play them, but I wouldn't drop $300 on a new system for those alone. I would've bought a PS3 just to play MGS4 if I had the money to back when it came out.

You dodged a bullet there.

[Beezy]

It's funny how the two games that originally made me wanna run out and get a PS3 turned out not so great (FF13 and MGS4). Only ZoE3 is left. Hopefully it ends up being multiplatform if it comes out this gen.

Demon's Souls?
Valkyria?

I wanna play them, but I wouldn't drop $300 on a new system for those alone. I would've bought a PS3 just to play MGS4 if I had the money to back when it came out.

You dodged a bullet there.

seriously

[Mr. Gundam]

The game is out this tuesday. If you interested, you'll play it and feel free to post in the thread. Otherwise dont waste our bandwidth - seems easy enough

Demi bringing the truth.

Can't wait for Tuesday.

[Don Flamenco]

The game is out this tuesday. If you interested, you'll play it and feel free to post in the thread. Otherwise dont waste our bandwidth - seems easy enough

>implying that criticism based on numerous reviews and impressions means I'm not hyped or interested and am just trying to troll

[Mr. Gundam]

DAY ONE MOTHERFUCKING-TROLL-BITCHES. DAY ONE.

[demi]

The game is out this tuesday. If you interested, you'll play it and feel free to post in the thread. Otherwise dont waste our bandwidth - seems easy enough

>implying that criticism based on numerous reviews and impressions means I'm not hyped or interested and am just trying to troll

> implying you arent already a waste of bandwidth

[Mr. Gundam]

Oh boo hoo it's linear. Oh boo hoo it's archaic. It's a motherfucking JRPG and it's what I want.

[Great Rumbler]

I'll get FFXIII someday when I see it in a bargain bin for $10.

[Himu]

It's funny how the two games that originally made me wanna run out and get a PS3 turned out not so great (FF13 and MGS4). Only ZoE3 is left. Hopefully it ends up being multiplatform if it comes out this gen.

Demon's Souls?
Valkyria?

I wanna play them, but I wouldn't drop $300 on a new system for those alone. I would've bought a PS3 just to play MGS4 if I had the money to back when it came out.

You dodged a bullet there.

word. if i bought my ps3 for mgs4 I'd probably hate my ps3.

[demi]

co-sign this POWERFUL post

[Lucretius]

I remember when all the game sites and podcasts were dismissing Lost Odyssey as irrelevant.  "All the game developers are waiting for FF XIII to see what the direction of JRPGs will be.  Until then we can't know what a good next gen JRPG is... bla bla bla."  And now everyone is all, "I wish FF XIII were more like Lost Odyssey. boo hoo hoo."

[Himu]

I remember when all the game sites and podcasts were dismissing Lost Odyssey as irrelevant.  "All the game developers are waiting for FF XIII to see what the direction of JRPGs will be.  Until then we can't know what a good next gen JRPG is... bla bla bla."  And now everyone is all, "I wish FF XIII were more like Lost Odyssey. boo hoo hoo."

[Beezy]

I remember when all the game sites and podcasts were dismissing Lost Odyssey as irrelevant.  "All the game developers are waiting for FF XIII to see what the direction of JRPGs will be.  Until then we can't know what a good next gen JRPG is... bla bla bla."  And now everyone is all, "I wish FF XIII were more like Lost Odyssey. boo hoo hoo."

Really? That's pretty funny after seeing how much hate Lost Odyssey got.

[Bebpo]

People are making too big of deal about this game because they took too damn long to bring it out (even though they made it in < 2 years).  If it was just another main FF that they released every 2 years, it'd be like "oh, this one's not that great; shame.  Hope the next one turns out better".  Like MGS2 or Halo 2, Splinter Cell 4, etc...

SE just needs to ramp up production speeds to avoid backlash like they're getting for producing an "ok" game instead of a "zomg, best rpg ever" game.

[TripleA]

I'm confident that Square Enix can learn from FF13 and make FF13 Versus the game FF13 was supposed to be.

Hopefully Versus will have multiplayer, it would be awesome to battle other players in a Pokemon-esque online arena.

[Mr. Gundam]

Hopefully Versus will have multiplayer, it would be awesome to battle other players in a Pokemon-esque online arena.

Get that shit out of here.

[Third]

Yeah, no online please.
If you want to play Final Fantasy online, buy FFXI or wait for FFIV.

[Beezy]

I remember when all the game sites and podcasts were dismissing Lost Odyssey as irrelevant.  "All the game developers are waiting for FF XIII to see what the direction of JRPGs will be.  Until then we can't know what a good next gen JRPG is... bla bla bla."  And now everyone is all, "I wish FF XIII were more like Lost Odyssey. boo hoo hoo."

Yeah seriously, another loss for game "journalism".

Lost Odyssey was so awesome though.

Especially the battle music. I really want a sequel.