Author Topic: star trek  (Read 326837 times)

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Tuckers Law

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1560 on: October 19, 2018, 01:25:00 AM »
Watching voyager has made me realize that most of my complaints with tng were nitpicks. I can’t stand the voyager crew after Tuvix. I find them completely unethical and have gone back to watching some TNG. I skipped most of season 7 so I’m going back to that.

Good luck with Sub Rosa (if you haven’t already watched it).  That single episode would turn away almost anyone from ever watching more Star Trek.

Himu

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1561 on: October 19, 2018, 02:55:17 PM »
Janeway is trash. She started out fine and then they fucked it up
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VomKriege

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1562 on: October 19, 2018, 03:42:59 PM »
Janeway is trash. She started out fine and then they fucked it up

Apparently there were two competing (if not opposing) ways to write her depending on who was in charge much to the frustration of Mulgrew. She ended up joking that she played Janeway as a bipolar person.
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Himu

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1563 on: October 19, 2018, 04:14:47 PM »
Janeway is trash. She started out fine and then they fucked it up

Apparently there were two competing (if not opposing) ways to write her depending on who was in charge much to the frustration of Mulgrew. She ended up joking that she played Janeway as a bipolar person.

Link
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VomKriege

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1564 on: October 19, 2018, 04:25:24 PM »
Janeway is trash. She started out fine and then they fucked it up

Apparently there were two competing (if not opposing) ways to write her depending on who was in charge much to the frustration of Mulgrew. She ended up joking that she played Janeway as a bipolar person.

Link

I've read it quite a bit on Reddit but a specific Google query brings up discussion about how no one got the actual source of that statement so maybe just an urban legend.

Everyone seem to agree that the character is written inconsistently.
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Himu

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1565 on: October 19, 2018, 04:55:15 PM »
The only people I really see defending Janeway are fangirls. They’re almost always women. They often use bad logic for liking Janeway. For instance they’ll say something like,”Janeway is a female captain that is not defined by her gender and that’s why she’s such a great captain” which makes no sense because that statement is basically saying that Janeway is a good captain because she’s a woman, which naturally defines her by her gender. Nevermind that it isn’t evidence that she’s good.

When you put her up against female characters like Saavik, Ro, Dax, or especially Kira, it gets even more chuckle worthy. And that’s just within the Star Trek franchise. What about characters like Laura Roslin in BSG? Or the female characters in Macross? I just don’t find Janeway particularly special. And since she’s not even well done her being captain is irrelevant to me. Since she’s not even good it feels like the only reason people like her character despite the bad writing is that she’s a captain and that she’s a woman.

Like read this.

https://www.tor.com/2012/08/27/janeway-doesnt-deserve-this-shit/
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VomKriege

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1566 on: October 20, 2018, 04:36:34 PM »
Dukat creeping on Kira :letsfukk
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Himu

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1567 on: October 20, 2018, 04:44:49 PM »
:maf

He’s such a creep
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VomKriege

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1568 on: October 21, 2018, 12:16:16 PM »
Mirror Vedek Bareil, really ?
 :cmonson

That DS9 S6 opening arc was pretty good. Weyoun - Dukat - Kira is all gold.
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benjipwns

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1569 on: October 22, 2018, 03:06:41 AM »
I can't pull out a link right now, but regarding this:
Apparently there were two competing (if not opposing) ways to write her depending on who was in charge much to the frustration of Mulgrew. She ended up joking that she played Janeway as a bipolar person.
Mulgrew uses this almost as a standard joke line at conventions, really all the Voyager people have become increasingly savage to the show's writing as the years have gone on. Originally they were slightly more defensive about it outside of Robert Beltran, who bashed the show while it was on, and Garret Wang started up right after it ended. But they've all since gotten pretty savage on it, Tim Russ and Jeri Ryan have done some brutal stories about it because of how both their characters were being written as "emotionless" but what they thought was actually more stupid or ignorant. (Ryan, for example, has said she tried to point out multiple times that Seven shouldn't "regress to a child" doing basic things while also having all the Borg knowledge to save the ship every episode still in her brain. And that they never dealt appropriately with what should have been her serious "loss" emotionally and mentally being cut off from the Collective. Instead they just make her like a vulcan.)

One of the Janeway shifts is because Michael Piller and Jeri Taylor had quite clear visions of what Janeway should be initially, but Taylor after writing the background novel for Janeway (Mosiac), started to become "expert" on the character and wrote her and tried to fend off others into the second, third and fourth seasons as to anything against her vision. That's why she got pushed out of the show. Piller originally didn't want Janeway to not be non-different as "progressive" equality of the future, he wanted her to be different as a fee-male* and somewhat of a "mother hen" to her dysfunctional crew and maybe even question her career over family choices like Picard has done, Taylor apparently changed her mind and decided against this, Piller left to do Insurrection and Taylor started to shift things around to make her more BADASS FEE-MALE CAPTAIN TAKES NO SHIT DOES ANYTHING "FOR HER CREW" (AKA HERSELF) that leads to her character eventually turning into that version that we all like to call the villain of the show. Berman and Braga preferred this version by far, but couldn't handle Taylor as the showrunner/EP anymore apparently.

*Part of this was they realized that they had goofed with Sisko being black. Not that it was a problem, but that in the 24th Century they couldn't exactly use him as a character who has faced discrimination and so on. So they totally lost that potential hook of the advantage of having a black captain. Instead they gave him the wife grief story and the single father, then realized it was crap too lol, so he's the Prophet. Janeway differed as being the highest ranking Starfleet fee-male on any of the shows, a position previously held by Beverly Crusher, and someone in the position of authority unlike Kira. They had more justification as to how she would approach things versus a man, and Chakotay, especially being Maquis, would have been an ideal person to be the complete opposite but he almost immediately turns into a toady.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 03:10:43 AM by benjipwns »

benjipwns

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1570 on: October 22, 2018, 03:15:25 AM »
T'Pol goes through more exploration of dealing with personal traumas in four seasons of ENT than Seven did in four seasons of VOY.

Himu

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1571 on: October 22, 2018, 03:27:59 AM »
Holy shit the episode resolutions was so boring I fell asleep. Season 1 of VOY is better. Season 2 sucks.

Also fuck I’m a badass female characters that like male badasses but with tits. That’s what Janeway is slowly becoming. Kira and Dax not her out the park. I even prefer Troi and Doc Crusher. Janeway is by far and away my least favorite Trek captain.

Also I’m on season 2 finale of Voyager and nothing has happened plot wise. AT ALL.  By this point in DS9 we met the dominion and the beginnings of the dominion war we’re starting to develop. Season 2 of voyager is SO BAD.
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benjipwns

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1572 on: October 22, 2018, 03:30:17 AM »
You mean you don't like the Kazon? And all their multiple warring tribes that yet somehow always manage to be right where Voyager is despite two years of high warp travel?

Himu

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1573 on: October 22, 2018, 03:32:06 AM »
You mean you don't like the Kazon? And all their multiple warring tribes that yet somehow always manage to be right where Voyager is despite two years of high warp travel?

I really like the Vidiians. Menacing villains that should have been the main bad guys.
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FatRiker

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1574 on: October 22, 2018, 09:38:14 AM »
Also I’m on season 2 finale of Voyager and nothing has happened plot wise. AT ALL.  By this point in DS9 we met the dominion and the beginnings of the dominion war we’re starting to develop. Season 2 of voyager is SO BAD.
I was waiting for this shoe to drop.

Yeah, so Season 3+ Voyager is Diet TNG mixed with 'oh look the Borg, watch as they do Borg stuff but lose to Janeway and Company' and Seven of Nine's tits.

VomKriege

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1575 on: October 22, 2018, 06:15:11 PM »
Dukat creeping on Kira :letsfukk

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Creeping on his almost step daughter.  :lucas
[close]
Cruz smiley was accurate.
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Himu

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1576 on: October 23, 2018, 01:31:14 AM »
Sorry, only registered users can see this content. Please Login or Register.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 01:48:43 AM by Cindi Mayweather »
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FatRiker

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1577 on: October 23, 2018, 07:12:09 AM »
The Thaw is great. Janeway outpsychoes a psycho clown.

Himu

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1578 on: October 23, 2018, 08:41:16 AM »
That’s why it’s shit and why Janeway is also shit. Wow look at me scare this clown like a psychopath, wow Janeway is sooooo badass ::)
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benjipwns

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1579 on: October 23, 2018, 11:10:52 PM »
I like The Thaw because it's so stupid. And it's the first time they realize the potential of The Doctor as a crew member I think.

I don't mind Janeway's counter dramatic play to The Clown, she's mostly pointing out that they had figured out his game and a way to punish him.

I also like Death Wish. For going inside the Q Continuum in such a perfectly absurd way, "oh, we've all been the scarecrow!", for Q knowing exactly how to play all sides to setup the ending all while protesting.

But you mentioning the episodes for the first time made me realize that all three "we never talk about this again" episodes are from that season. Tuvix, Threshold and Deadlock. Killing a crew member cuz, Janeway and Paris mating and leaving behind a bunch of salamanders, and the fact that HARRY KIM IS HARRY KIM FROM ANOTHER UNIVERSE FOR THE REST OF THE SERIES. All of which it's like the entire crew agreed to never mention in public/ "on camera"again.

benjipwns

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1580 on: October 23, 2018, 11:19:32 PM »
Voyager gets better, maybe blander on average, and does come to have some actually really great individual episodes, but that season you can easily see was the start of the Janeway madness, which the crew never really questions her on after that point. I think Chakotay tries once (over The Borg iirc) but after that it's only The Doctor and Seven who ever protest anything she does really. And compared to what she more or less does to The Doctor for questioning her increasing madness, Tuvix arguably got off easy.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I also liked how Berman and Braga didn't understand how the whole Equinox plot fell flat to viewers and that even some people saw the Captain as correct in his debate with Janeway. Because compared to Janeway they hadn't torn a path of destruction through an entire quadrant of the galaxy all on their own unhinged personal moral code. They'd crossed the line once, knowing they had but to save themselves, and had actually been suffering for it since.

edit: lol, looked it up because i couldn't remember his name, Captain Ransom, even the name is totally on the nose
[close]

Himu

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1581 on: October 24, 2018, 04:18:40 AM »
Voyager fans tell me “she’s the captain”. BRO. SIS. Kirk, Picard, and Sisko all had crew members rebuke and question them regularly. They had discussions. The captain would check what his officers thought and made an action because Odo is security chief and is an expert in security, and Bones is a doctor and has the most human considerations  down pat, and because Geordi is chief engineer and knows wtf he’s talking about. They’re experts. Star Trek is ABOUT communication. Between races, between ideals, between differences. The captain is the captain and has the final say but they ALWAYS consult and the times they don’t are exceptions, and even in the case of In the Pale Moonlight Sisko STILL consults Garak and when he asks Bashir for what he needs he’s instantly checked and rebuked. All Janeway does is give orders and make decisions based on her whims.

IT’S AWFUL. I hate her for it. It’s obvious they are overcompensating having a female captain by not making her “weak” and by “weak”  I mean consulting others and forming dialogue, you know, some of the most important principles of the Federation? Far too much of it instead is about making their female captain look badass so she doesn’t appear female. Yet she doesn’t have one ounce of the depth and badassery of Jadzia Dax and Kira fucking Nerys da Gawdess. Janeway WISHES she were Kira.

I hate Janeway. She was great in season 1 but after that? Forget about it.

Fuck Janeway.
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Himu

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1582 on: October 24, 2018, 04:21:44 AM »
Benji I have NO IDEA why Harry Kim wasn’t immediately promoted after coming to the other voyager with the baby in Deadlock.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 04:25:51 AM by Cindi Mayweather »
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Himu

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1583 on: October 24, 2018, 04:23:34 AM »
Because my limit with Janeway runs thin I’ve been watching the occasional tng s7 ep on the side and GOD it feels so good. I now realize after season 2 of voyager that my problems with TNG were nitpicks. Picard please hold me and save me from the bad woman.
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benjipwns

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1584 on: October 24, 2018, 05:00:16 AM »
Season Three will be a little rough to start, though there are a couple of decent pieces early on, but it picks up in the last five or six episodes, there's some good Trek stuff there. Even if one is a lame copout from what should have been a major plotline on the series.

Season Four is kinda similarly setup, including I think the first Bryan Fuller written episode, but "Year of Hell" is absolutely peak Voyager and obviously what the show should have been. (It also had been pitched as an entire season but was made into a two-parter.) Then they have a decent little run again that's up and down on the Hirogen, before again having a pretty good last five or six episodes including another one of the great ones. Season Five is all over the place really; Season Six has some of the worst but also some of the better episodes in that second tier; Season Seven is kinda meh, but there's a few I like, "Workforce" is probably really the most interesting of their two-parters after "Year of Hell" aside from maybe "Equinox" even if it kinda dances around some details you wonder about.

Voyager doesn't really ever get truly better to move it above any of the other series, but like I said it gets a little better and then blander and evens out so it's never as bad as season two. Especially once you accept the Janeway madness.

Plus arguably even if someone was skipping through the episodes, they'd have to watch the Borg stuff just to see how hilariously the Borg are turned into patsy's who are easily fooled and conquered by Janeway constantly, after their devastating "Q-Who?" introduction, "Best of Both Worlds" triumph and First Contact brutal savagery. Even Hugh and Lore couldn't make them as lame as Voyager does after "Scorpion" and Seven.

And then there's Species 8472... :neogaf

Himu

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1585 on: October 24, 2018, 12:33:24 PM »
People are saying that maybe I’m sexist for hating Janeway and have some internal misogyny I didn’t know about because apparently a lot of captains do the same things Janeway does. I don’t know about it but maybe they’re right. But when I watch TNG i agree pretty much always with Picard’s methods. Is Picard my ideal captain or something because he was my first or what? Idk.
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chronovore

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1586 on: October 24, 2018, 05:44:42 PM »
Picard is EVERYONE's dear captain.

benjipwns

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1587 on: October 24, 2018, 09:31:21 PM »
People are saying that maybe I’m sexist for hating Janeway and have some internal misogyny
Oh jeez, it's not because she's a woman, it's because of the writing. Yeah, all the captains make decisions based on their own ethics and violate Starfleet rules/Prime Directive/etc., but Janeway does things far beyond any captain, and does them when she doesn't have to while never truly considering the ramifications of her actions, but none of it has do with her being a woman.

Sisko and Archer both cross the line (during wartime or equivalent arguably), but they're almost always shown as ultimately not being okay that they did it, and the crew doesn't blindly follow them. Even Ransom is shown as unsure about his choices. Janeway never reconsiders hers, on anything she does.

And part of that is because the show simply never allows it, instead they warp off to next week. So sure, it's technically not Janeway's fault, but nobody is talking about her and the other captains without making the qualifier of "if this were real and these people were making their own choices instead of following a script" because they know it's not. (Yet.)

Himu

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1588 on: October 28, 2018, 12:06:00 AM »
Wow. The Passion of the Janeway. S3e7.
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Himu

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1589 on: October 28, 2018, 12:52:56 AM »
Future’s End is good.

Season 3 is solid Trek.
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benjipwns

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1590 on: October 28, 2018, 01:22:51 AM »
Sarah Silverman's best role?

Himu

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1591 on: October 28, 2018, 01:40:06 AM »
“What is that thing in your pants?”

:sabu
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Himu

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1592 on: October 28, 2018, 02:41:02 AM »
Why the fuck is B’ellena the most incompetent Klingon ever? You mean to tell me they tied a Klingon with tape and she couldn’t break it? What’s the point of having Klingon blood if you’re that much of a wimp? Holy shit.
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benjipwns

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1593 on: October 28, 2018, 02:43:03 AM »
That's why you need pure blood, not one of these half-breeds. :yuck

Himu

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1594 on: October 28, 2018, 02:43:51 AM »
But Worf’s mate is half human half Klingon and she’s rad af
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benjipwns

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1595 on: October 28, 2018, 03:13:51 AM »
Don't all the Klingons spend both those episodes trashing on her for being one?


chronovore

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1597 on: November 07, 2018, 04:20:28 AM »

Madrun Badrun

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1598 on: November 07, 2018, 08:29:26 PM »
Started rewatching DS9. 



chronovore

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1599 on: November 09, 2018, 08:58:20 AM »
https://www.instagram.com/p/BX-7hoxltZd/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

:lawd

Her Star Wars Rey cosplays are so spot-on, I think she could replace Ridley if she wanted.

Madrun Badrun

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1600 on: November 11, 2018, 12:02:17 AM »
wait, are ferengi giant penis heads?

Himu

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1601 on: November 11, 2018, 02:57:06 AM »
No, more like dolphins.
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benjipwns

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1602 on: November 12, 2018, 02:55:51 AM »
https://deadline.com/2018/11/michelle-yeoh-star-trek-spinoff-talks-cbs-crazy-rich-asians-1202498617/
Quote
Crazy Rich Asians star Michelle Yeoh is in talks to reprise her Star Trek Discovery role of Captain Emperor Georgiou for a stand-alone CBS All Access series, I’ve learned.

...

Still in the early planning stages, the spinoff looks likely to focus on a continuation of her Discovery Season 2 adventures in Starfleet’s Section 31 division.
Quote
the series is one of several ideas being pursued by Discovery EP Kurtzman’s Secret Hideout and David Stapf’s CBS TV Studios for the multi-project, multi-year Trekverse expansion, sources say. “My goal is that there should be a Star Trek something on all the time on All Access,” Stapf told Deadline in August.

Himu

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1603 on: November 12, 2018, 03:08:39 AM »
Anyone see Calypso yet
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MMaRsu

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1604 on: November 13, 2018, 02:10:08 PM »
Saw Yesterday's Enterprise for the first time yesterday, wow that was an awesome episode!!

Is this about the best it gets? It was better than anything that came before it I think. Although I am a sucker for mixed timelines and shit.
What

Joe Molotov

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1605 on: November 13, 2018, 03:34:12 PM »
Saw Yesterday's Enterprise for the first time yesterday, wow that was an awesome episode!!

Is this about the best it gets?

Yesterday's Enterprise is a Top 10 episode for sure, but there are still a lot of good ones. Inner Light, Best of Both Worlds, All Good Things... :lawd
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chronovore

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1606 on: November 13, 2018, 08:44:27 PM »
Saw Yesterday's Enterprise for the first time yesterday, wow that was an awesome episode!!

Is this about the best it gets? It was better than anything that came before it I think. Although I am a sucker for mixed timelines and shit.

It's my favorite episode, alongside Lower Decks.

Tuckers Law

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1607 on: November 13, 2018, 11:25:25 PM »
Tapestry.

 :rejoice

toku

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1608 on: November 21, 2018, 02:41:58 PM »

Madrun Badrun

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1609 on: November 21, 2018, 03:36:46 PM »
Rewatched 'Duet'.  So damn good. 

Tasty

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1610 on: November 21, 2018, 04:42:00 PM »
Rewatching "Emergence." Pretty good.

chronovore

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1611 on: November 22, 2018, 06:39:46 PM »
https://boingboing.net/2018/11/20/cosplay-adjacent-2.html

I want one, but (a) I'm not that nerdy, (b) US$315 is a lot of money, and (c) I'd need one with Captain Kirk's built-in girdle.

benjipwns

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1612 on: December 01, 2018, 11:37:06 PM »


Quote
A 1995 promotional image, featuring Jennifer Lien (right) with her Star Trek: Voyager co-stars Kate Mulgrew (center) and Roxann Dawson (left)

For a sitcom or what?

benjipwns

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1613 on: December 01, 2018, 11:41:19 PM »
Holy crap, she's still getting arrested:
Quote
Lien has had run-ins with the law from 2012 to 2018 which resulted in her being charged with a number of offences including domestic violence,[17] indecent exposure[18][19] and vehicle related offences,[20][21][22][23][24][25][26] and led to her undergoing mental health treatment.[21]
Quote
Stedman, Alex (15 September 2015). "'Star Trek: Voyager' Actress Jennifer Lien Arrested for Indecent Exposure". Variety. Retrieved September 15, 2015.
 Staff writer (15 September 2015). "Star Trek: Voyager's 'Kes' charged with exposing herself to children in Harriman". WATE.com. Retrieved September 15, 2015.
 Lawrence, Damon (23 April 2015). "Police: Woman rams cruiser". Roane Country News. Retrieved August 4, 2015.
 Lawrence, Damon (1 March 2016). "'Star Trek: Voyager' star ordered to pay, continue treatment". Roane Country News. Retrieved 2016-05-08.
 Lawrence, Damon (3 May 2016). "'Star Trek' star on check". Roane Country News. Retrieved May 8, 2016.
 "Area arrests 3-7". The Daily Citizen. 5 March 2016. Retrieved January 24, 2018.
 Lawrence, Damon (29 November 2016). "Star Trek actress' charges dismissed". Roane Country News. Retrieved February 12, 2017.
 "Deputy: Voyager star spat on him". Roane Country News. 11 January 2018. Retrieved January 13, 2018.
 Staff writer (13 March 2018). "Former Star Trek: Voyager actress arrested in Kingston". WATE.com. Retrieved March 17, 2018.

Himu

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1614 on: December 02, 2018, 10:29:54 AM »
why is lien so troubled

what happened
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Tasty

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1615 on: December 02, 2018, 11:09:04 AM »
Sounds like Brittany Murphy. :(

D3RANG3D

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1616 on: December 08, 2018, 09:24:16 PM »

MMaRsu

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1617 on: December 12, 2018, 01:03:02 PM »
I'm on season 5 episode 9 now  :D

Very good show
What

benjipwns

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1618 on: January 02, 2019, 10:33:35 PM »
Patrick Stewart in 1976 :ohhh


Great Rumbler

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Re: star trek
« Reply #1619 on: January 02, 2019, 10:41:36 PM »
Here's one for benji:

dog