Author Topic: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster  (Read 1304970 times)

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Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12480 on: September 25, 2022, 09:00:12 PM »
Having not paid attention to the Italy election I'm taken aback by how the media is describing the new elected PM as a fascist. All I've seen so far is a conservative party that prides itself on being Christian and Italian which doesn't exactly equate with being fascist. Yet sites like Reuters are saying:

Quote
Meloni, 45, plays down her party's post-fascist roots and portrays it as a mainstream conservative group. She has pledged to support Western policy on Ukraine and not take undue risks with the third largest economy in the euro zone.

without explaining once in the article what fascist roots she has and we are supposed to take them at face value. The news media truly is dog shit.
IYKYK

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12481 on: September 25, 2022, 09:24:59 PM »
Having not paid attention to the Italy election I'm taken aback by how the media is describing the new elected PM as a fascist. All I've seen so far is a conservative party that prides itself on being Christian and Italian which doesn't exactly equate with being fascist. Yet sites like Reuters are saying:

Quote
Meloni, 45, plays down her party's post-fascist roots and portrays it as a mainstream conservative group. She has pledged to support Western policy on Ukraine and not take undue risks with the third largest economy in the euro zone.

without explaining once in the article what fascist roots she has and we are supposed to take them at face value. The news media truly is dog shit.
What they mean is she used to be a member of a party that was the successor to a party that included members who were members of the Fascists before the war. They have obviously moderated (as shown by their electoral success the other day), but they're still considered far-right because there are only two kinds of political parties according to the English language media: mildly center-left (aka "right-wing" in an "European context") and far-right.

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12482 on: September 25, 2022, 09:56:55 PM »
https://twitter.com/EMPosts/status/1573271403268300801

 :yikes

Can we not? "Human rights" are a bourgeoisie concept that have no place after actual people's revolutions. :ufup

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12483 on: September 25, 2022, 11:19:50 PM »
Having not paid attention to the Italy election I'm taken aback by how the media is describing the new elected PM as a fascist. All I've seen so far is a conservative party that prides itself on being Christian and Italian which doesn't exactly equate with being fascist. Yet sites like Reuters are saying:

Quote
Meloni, 45, plays down her party's post-fascist roots and portrays it as a mainstream conservative group. She has pledged to support Western policy on Ukraine and not take undue risks with the third largest economy in the euro zone.

without explaining once in the article what fascist roots she has and we are supposed to take them at face value. The news media truly is dog shit.
What they mean is she used to be a member of a party that was the successor to a party that included members who were members of the Fascists before the war. They have obviously moderated (as shown by their electoral success the other day), but they're still considered far-right because there are only two kinds of political parties according to the English language media: mildly center-left (aka "right-wing" in an "European context") and far-right.

So they're not REALLY fascist. I saw an AP report just openly call her fascist for prioritizing the following things: family, God, country. It was laughable. Literally that was it and the comments were like LOOK AT WHERE WE ARE GOING, WORLD.

What does fascist even mean anymore?

It's impossible to not see the liberal media's agenda.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2022, 12:39:25 AM by Himu »
IYKYK

Transhuman

  • youtu.be/KCVCmGPgJS0
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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12484 on: September 26, 2022, 01:25:55 AM »
To a voter "Family" means anti-gay, "God" means anti-secularism, and "Country" means anti-immigration, you have to be pretty hyperopic to miss that.

who is ted danson?

  • ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀✋💎✋🤬
  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12485 on: September 26, 2022, 07:22:18 AM »
⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12486 on: September 26, 2022, 09:54:15 AM »
Ok crazy ass rumor circulating but these are crazy ass times.
 
- Military column in Beijing
- Many flights cancelled
- Xi Jinping is under house arrest

this is why putin launched his attack when he did

behind the scenes he has allies in the chinese military, and under advisement that their coup was forthcoming, he moved forward knowing that eventually he would have the full support of china on his side as well

it's easy to sanction russia, but the combined might of russia and china will mean that the rest of the world dares not intervene in the area under threat of nuclear devastation

russia gets ukraine, china gets taiwan

So yea...lol
010

Propagandhim

  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12487 on: September 26, 2022, 12:31:12 PM »
Having not paid attention to the Italy election I'm taken aback by how the media is describing the new elected PM as a fascist. All I've seen so far is a conservative party that prides itself on being Christian and Italian which doesn't exactly equate with being fascist. Yet sites like Reuters are saying:

Quote
Meloni, 45, plays down her party's post-fascist roots and portrays it as a mainstream conservative group. She has pledged to support Western policy on Ukraine and not take undue risks with the third largest economy in the euro zone.

without explaining once in the article what fascist roots she has and we are supposed to take them at face value. The news media truly is dog shit.
What they mean is she used to be a member of a party that was the successor to a party that included members who were members of the Fascists before the war. They have obviously moderated (as shown by their electoral success the other day), but they're still considered far-right because there are only two kinds of political parties according to the English language media: mildly center-left (aka "right-wing" in an "European context") and far-right.

So they're not REALLY fascist. I saw an AP report just openly call her fascist for prioritizing the following things: family, God, country. It was laughable. Literally that was it and the comments were like LOOK AT WHERE WE ARE GOING, WORLD.

What does fascist even mean anymore?

It's impossible to not see the liberal media's agenda.

It's like every other progressive maneuver:  They only want freedom of speech when it's their speech.  They only want democracy when their guy wins the election.   They throw around the word 'fascism' - a word that needs no equivocation and is very explicitly understood from the prospectus it derived from.  They just use the word to throw slime in the face of their opponents.  It's cynical.  These people are disgusting freaks.  I would never have voted for Meloni if I were still in Italy -- she's likely going to make the economy even worse, and doesn't hold a candle to the expertise, credability, intelligence, and pragmatism of Draghi -- but don't run interference in free peoples' open, democratic elections.  Let them determine and bear the impact of the choices they make.    Sovereign people have the independent right to choose the direction of their own country.  I'm getting tired of these people.   

spoiler (click to show/hide)
*reflexively posts the "Paradox of Tolerance" comic to refute my defense of fascism*  :smug
[close]
« Last Edit: September 26, 2022, 12:40:49 PM by Propagandhim »

Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12488 on: September 26, 2022, 01:00:31 PM »


https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1574289788802400256


Also FSB organized a false flag with a "Nazi" shooting up a school.  :cry
🤴

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12489 on: September 26, 2022, 01:23:38 PM »
Is this where we pretend the Brothers Of Italy are not a modern branch of MSI, or that Italty's new PM is not a loud defender of Viktor Orban (an undeniable autocrat), or that she has palled around with clear cut fascist Steve Bannon? I've seen multiple articles stating she has fascist ties. That is indisputably true whether you like it or not.

I don't think she's a fascist given that she has spoken out against much of her previous party's ideology in years since, among other things. For instance she's not exactly an anti-EU candidate demanding alliances be destroyed, and she has fully supported Ukraine - contrary to many in her party.

Does some of her rhetoric mirror basic fascist appeals? Sure. I don't see how anyone could argue that she's not a populist nationalist, or that she's not summoning boogeymen and moral decadence, or that she's not offering a vague return to a better mythic past. But I haven't seen or read anything to suggest she's an actual fascist in terms of government, I haven't heard anything about her locking up gay people etc.
010

Transhuman

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  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12490 on: September 26, 2022, 01:26:37 PM »
https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1574289788802400256
.

I was going to say earlier, i'm surprised more of these recruiters don't get killed point blank by someone with a gun, or the door-knockers doing the sham referendum. Sure you probably die a few seconds later, but it's a pretty good few seconds.

Quote
It isn't clear whether Zinin had been summoned as part of Putin's partial mobilization decree. The local Telegram channel ASTRA said it had contacted the alleged shooter's mother, Marina Zinina, who reportedly said that her son didn't receive a summons himself, but that his best friend had been called up to fight in Ukraine.

Don't fuck with best friends

Propagandhim

  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12491 on: September 26, 2022, 01:34:32 PM »
Is this where we pretend the Brothers Of Italy are not a modern branch of MSI, or that Italty's new PM is not a loud defender of Viktor Orban (an undeniable autocrat), or that she has palled around with clear cut fascist Steve Bannon? I've seen multiple articles stating she has fascist ties. That is indisputably true whether you like it or not.

I don't think she's a fascist given that she has spoken out against much of her previous party's ideology in years since, among other things. For instance she's not exactly an anti-EU candidate demanding alliances be destroyed, and she has fully supported Ukraine - contrary to many in her party.

Does some of her rhetoric mirror basic fascist appeals? Sure. I don't see how anyone could argue that she's not a populist nationalist, or that she's not summoning boogeymen and moral decadence, or that she's not offering a vague return to a better mythic past. But I haven't seen or read anything to suggest she's an actual fascist in terms of government, I haven't heard anything about her locking up gay people etc.

 
Yeah, she's shit.  That isn't the point, though.  Nothing about her party functions at all like a state of fascism -- it's the same old right wing cultural protectionism since time immemorial.  They're not for changing the government into fascist features and repressing democracy.    Nothing ought to supersede a nation's right to consider their own interests and determine their own destiny via open democratic elections, unless they're threatening force on someone else.   Your conception of what you consider moral may not be moral for the peoples of another nation.  I'm vegan, I think the factory farming industry is disgusting and brutal and inflicts a devastation on the environment.  Why can't I just leverage what I see as an obvious moral truth -- the breeding and torturing of animals in an endless cycle of brutality on another nation, if I believe that nation is being too involved in the factory farming industry?   Why can't I and people like me interfere in their elections if they voted in a party that subsidizes the meat and dairy industry?   They're engaging in something that's so obviously immoral and destructive -- why can't we just throw a wrench in their elections and influence them into the correct side of history?  After all, in 100 years when lab-grown meat is affordable, we're going to look back and be horrified at how unethical we were with the conditions of stockyards and factory farms, so why not just speed things up and set their democracy on a righteous and correct detour?    If Meloni is terrible like I think she is, then that terribleness will come to fruition and express itself one way or another -- but you can't remove the rights of free people to vote for her by threat.  And FWIW, why are East Asian states immune to the same criticism of fascism when they promote the exact same shit?  Who the hell is calling South Korea a fascist state when they're Meloni on steroids?  Who is threatening to go in and influence their elections?  Don't they know they have a huge demographic decline, and we know how to solve it?
« Last Edit: September 26, 2022, 01:51:20 PM by Propagandhim »

Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12492 on: September 26, 2022, 01:44:27 PM »
The liberals just don't do any soul searching.

They should figure out why people like the message of owning their own home, plot of land and having a family.
As supposed to whatever the liberals are selling right now, which boils down to doomsday warnings, war and everything is a subscription service.
🤴

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12493 on: September 26, 2022, 02:39:56 PM »
To a voter "Family" means anti-gay, "God" means anti-secularism, and "Country" means anti-immigration, you have to be pretty hyperopic to miss that.

Nah, not really and none of that still equates to fascism?
IYKYK

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12494 on: September 26, 2022, 02:48:06 PM »
Is this where we pretend the Brothers Of Italy are not a modern branch of MSI, or that Italty's new PM is not a loud defender of Viktor Orban (an undeniable autocrat), or that she has palled around with clear cut fascist Steve Bannon? I've seen multiple articles stating she has fascist ties. That is indisputably true whether you like it or not.

I don't think she's a fascist given that she has spoken out against much of her previous party's ideology in years since, among other things. For instance she's not exactly an anti-EU candidate demanding alliances be destroyed, and she has fully supported Ukraine - contrary to many in her party.

Does some of her rhetoric mirror basic fascist appeals? Sure. I don't see how anyone could argue that she's not a populist nationalist, or that she's not summoning boogeymen and moral decadence, or that she's not offering a vague return to a better mythic past. But I haven't seen or read anything to suggest she's an actual fascist in terms of government, I haven't heard anything about her locking up gay people etc.

 
Yeah, she's shit.  That isn't the point, though.  Nothing about her party functions at all like a state of fascism -- it's the same old right wing cultural protectionism since time immemorial.  They're not for changing the government into fascist features and repressing democracy.    Nothing ought to supersede a nation's right to consider their own interests and determine their own destiny via open democratic elections, unless they're threatening force on someone else.   Your conception of what you consider moral may not be moral for the peoples of another nation.  I'm vegan, I think the factory farming industry is disgusting and brutal and inflicts a devastation on the environment.  Why can't I just leverage what I see as an obvious moral truth -- the breeding and torturing of animals in an endless cycle of brutality on another nation, if I believe that nation is being too involved in the factory farming industry?   Why can't I and people like me interfere in their elections if they voted in a party that subsidizes the meat and dairy industry?   They're engaging in something that's so obviously immoral and destructive -- why can't we just throw a wrench in their elections and influence them into the correct side of history?  After all, in 100 years when lab-grown meat is affordable, we're going to look back and be horrified at how unethical we were with the conditions of stockyards and factory farms, so why not just speed things up and set their democracy on a righteous and correct detour?    If Meloni is terrible like I think she is, then that terribleness will come to fruition and express itself one way or another -- but you can't remove the rights of free people to vote for her by threat.  And FWIW, why are East Asian states immune to the same criticism of fascism when they promote the exact same shit?  Who the hell is calling South Korea a fascist state when they're Meloni on steroids?  Who is threatening to go in and influence their elections?  Don't they know they have a huge demographic decline, and we know how to solve it?

Japan is famous for being insular. They have people that harass Korea immigrants. They have a conservative government by our standards. No one accuses modern Japan of fascism despite it having roots in it through Emperor Hirohito. It's bizarre and I'm tired of liberals and leftists calling anything they don't like fascism while also suggesting that they alone should control all the pillars of society, which is far more similar to fascism in behavior and conduct. It's just sickening and tiring and imo just helps the right grow because everyone has been hearing the new rise of fascism since. Trump and that was almost ten years ago yet none of the people accused of being fascist have yet to show any real signs of it and the wheels kept churning from the old system - the complete opposite of fascist government.

It's honestly more evidence in the poverty of thought that it liberalism and progressivism which is precisely why conservatives keep winning around the world. Thank God.
IYKYK

Pissy F Benny

  • Is down with the sickness
  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12495 on: September 26, 2022, 03:29:25 PM »
Right wingers do the same with the terms socialist and communist ;)

Socialist/communist and facist/nazi basically mean person/policy on the other side of the political spectrum that I dont like now on the internet :elon
(ice)

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12496 on: September 26, 2022, 03:36:14 PM »
The liberals just don't do any soul searching.

They should figure out why people like the message of owning their own home, plot of land and having a family.
As supposed to whatever the liberals are selling right now, which boils down to doomsday warnings, war and everything is a subscription service.

You don't like living in a perma apartment?

Right wingers do the same with the terms socialist and communist ;)

Socialist/communist and facist/nazi basically mean person/policy on the other side of the political spectrum that I dont like now on the internet :elon

True and by calling people like Obama socialists the right helped legitimize socialism. By dumbing down the word it helps the real thing come to light and now almost ten years after Obama left the WH progressives practically run all of cultures highest places. So maybe the conservatives weren't entirely wrong all along.
IYKYK

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12497 on: September 26, 2022, 03:44:16 PM »
Is this where we pretend the Brothers Of Italy are not a modern branch of MSI, or that Italty's new PM is not a loud defender of Viktor Orban (an undeniable autocrat), or that she has palled around with clear cut fascist Steve Bannon? I've seen multiple articles stating she has fascist ties. That is indisputably true whether you like it or not.

I don't think she's a fascist given that she has spoken out against much of her previous party's ideology in years since, among other things. For instance she's not exactly an anti-EU candidate demanding alliances be destroyed, and she has fully supported Ukraine - contrary to many in her party.

Does some of her rhetoric mirror basic fascist appeals? Sure. I don't see how anyone could argue that she's not a populist nationalist, or that she's not summoning boogeymen and moral decadence, or that she's not offering a vague return to a better mythic past. But I haven't seen or read anything to suggest she's an actual fascist in terms of government, I haven't heard anything about her locking up gay people etc.

 
Yeah, she's shit.  That isn't the point, though.  Nothing about her party functions at all like a state of fascism -- it's the same old right wing cultural protectionism since time immemorial.  They're not for changing the government into fascist features and repressing democracy.    Nothing ought to supersede a nation's right to consider their own interests and determine their own destiny via open democratic elections, unless they're threatening force on someone else.   Your conception of what you consider moral may not be moral for the peoples of another nation.  I'm vegan, I think the factory farming industry is disgusting and brutal and inflicts a devastation on the environment.  Why can't I just leverage what I see as an obvious moral truth -- the breeding and torturing of animals in an endless cycle of brutality on another nation, if I believe that nation is being too involved in the factory farming industry?   Why can't I and people like me interfere in their elections if they voted in a party that subsidizes the meat and dairy industry?   They're engaging in something that's so obviously immoral and destructive -- why can't we just throw a wrench in their elections and influence them into the correct side of history?  After all, in 100 years when lab-grown meat is affordable, we're going to look back and be horrified at how unethical we were with the conditions of stockyards and factory farms, so why not just speed things up and set their democracy on a righteous and correct detour?    If Meloni is terrible like I think she is, then that terribleness will come to fruition and express itself one way or another -- but you can't remove the rights of free people to vote for her by threat.  And FWIW, why are East Asian states immune to the same criticism of fascism when they promote the exact same shit?  Who the hell is calling South Korea a fascist state when they're Meloni on steroids?  Who is threatening to go in and influence their elections?  Don't they know they have a huge demographic decline, and we know how to solve it?
I stated I don't believe she's a fascist nor is she implementing a fascist state.

I'm not going to engage on veganism hypotheticals or the supposed cruelty towards animals. I'm solely focused on human rights, which is not a relative issue where we determine "well some countries say you have rights and other countries say you don't" and that's fine. I haven't seen anything about her locking gay people or Muslims up like I said. My point is simply that her moral indignation and illusions of moral decay are a basic tenant of fascism, alongside the hyper nationalist populism and the mythic appeal to returning to a past normalcy that (likely) never existed. Make Italy Great Again. That's fascism 101, by any basic historical or political theory measure.

Again I don't think she's a fascist and there's zero evidence she's installing a fascist government. It sounds like she barely has enough support to put much of anything together, and may not be PM for long.
010

Propagandhim

  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12498 on: September 26, 2022, 03:54:40 PM »
 
Quote
It sounds like she barely has enough support to put much of anything together, and may not be PM for long.


 

Yep.  Italy’s debt levels don’t allow her much room for anything.  As nintex mentioned -- the reality is, the country can’t really afford yield getting out of control affecting its borrowing cost if she steps out of line.


Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12499 on: September 26, 2022, 04:15:49 PM »

Quote
It sounds like she barely has enough support to put much of anything together, and may not be PM for long.


 (Image removed from quote.)

Yep.  Italy’s debt levels don’t allow her much room for anything.  As nintex mentioned -- the reality is, the country can’t really afford yield getting out of control affecting its borrowing cost if she steps out of line.

She's gonna fail IMO. Same with Truss in the UK. I work in finance and I've never heard a world leader getting shat on by businesses and investors like this. She's terrible, and is gonna fuck around and get Labour swept into office.

World falling apart while we carry on. Dismantling Russia and watching the incoming China implosion. Feels good man.  :doge 
010

Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12500 on: September 26, 2022, 04:38:15 PM »
With all empires the periphery collapses first. In Russia's case, the former Soviet Republics still under Putins sway, the far east and Ukraine.
Usually we only see Moscow and St. Petersburg but now that the camera's are on places like Dagestan it's obvious to anyone that things are worse in Russia than we knew.
The population is morally decayed, the state barely functions and what still functions is inherently corrupt or broken.

In the case of the US it started with Afghanistan and the Middle East and now Taiwan, the UK and Europe are sliding into the abyss.
It's clear that investors are fleeing into the safety of the dollar. Not so strange considering Europe has no long term strategy for energy, trade or defense.

If the current course is maintained the US would either have to prop up Europe or cut it loose and give up their empire to save themselves.

Many seem to think that a European Federal State is the solution.
But if Germany isn't producing, the 'frugals' aren't saving, France isn't farming, Italy isn't banking, Greece has no tourism... what is left to back it?
🤴

Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12501 on: September 26, 2022, 04:47:27 PM »
Another example of the state of Russia.

Bring your own 'everything'. The army can't supply literally anything except for a WW2 uniform and armor a rubber plate.

https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1574476679539527680
🤴

Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12502 on: September 26, 2022, 06:17:43 PM »
Russians sending their army to the borders of Georgia to prevent Russians from leaving Russia.
https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1574516235739488280
🤴

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12503 on: September 26, 2022, 06:55:13 PM »
A euro federal state :obama

Interesting.

I'm so glad to be American.
IYKYK

Occam

  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12504 on: September 26, 2022, 08:20:28 PM »
A euro federal state :obama

Interesting.

I'm so glad to be American.

And what do you think the United States of America are?
It really is a shame you'll never get to experience the involuntary hilarity of your posts like the rest of us do.
Keep it up :)
504

Pissy F Benny

  • Is down with the sickness
  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12505 on: September 26, 2022, 08:48:13 PM »
Labour aren't winning fhe next UK election, the Tories and their supporters in the media have so many cards to pull and I doubt Starmer (a bit of a wet blanket) has it in him to overcome it.

The Tories ahould have been gone and should have a long time ago, but Labour find new ways to fuck up what should be a sure thing.
(ice)

Potato

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12506 on: September 26, 2022, 09:58:42 PM »
Labour aren't winning fhe next UK election, the Tories and their supporters in the media have so many cards to pull and I doubt Starmer (a bit of a wet blanket) has it in him to overcome it.

The Tories ahould have been gone and should have a long time ago, but Labour find new ways to fuck up what should be a sure thing.
Any party that puts up Jeremy Fucking Corbin and thinks it can win is clearly way too dysfunctional to take office, even in the face of Boris Fucking Johnson. Jesus Christ, that whole was a perfect example of what would happen in the world if the Resetera denizens were to actually be empowered to make political decisions....
Spud

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12507 on: September 26, 2022, 10:51:16 PM »
A euro federal state :obama

Interesting.

I'm so glad to be American.

And what do you think the United States of America are?
It really is a shame you'll never get to experience the involuntary hilarity of your posts like the rest of us do.
Keep it up :)

It's interesting how you inject so much of your personal interpretation into my posts as if you assume the intent of them. I said a federal EU would be interesting. I said I was glad to be American because we have our ducks in a row militarily, economic, and energy-wise even if we have our faults, which was touching on to the previous conversation. EU has so many problems America simply does not have. You should use your head to understand contextual basis in a conversation. In which the current discussion is EU's reliance on American power - for which I am happy to be American. In no part of that post did I say a federal government was bad or that American isn't a federation of states. Rather than ask what I mean, you'd look a lot less like a jerk but I think that's embedded in you. To be frank, that's frightening given your penchant for speech censorship. You would probably execute someone for saying,"you know, I like coffee" because you think that means,"tea sucks ass." Beep boop.

Anyways, a federal EU sounds really interesting. Each country could be its own state I guess? :thinking And due to Europe's history for exchanging languages it could be interesting to witness. I really how that would work and how they could even manage to pull off a United States of Europe. The fact each country has different languages is the biggest barrier. Mexico and USA have our own language - Spanish for Mexico, English for USA. Being able to combine all the European powers into one country where they all recognize each others languages would be...a large task. There would definitely be a large period where they have to adjust. :thinking

Was this attempted after WWII or was the mood too hot after that?
« Last Edit: September 26, 2022, 11:02:44 PM by Himu »
IYKYK

Occam

  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12508 on: September 27, 2022, 07:20:32 AM »
I am sorry, I misinterpreted your post. I didn't give you the benefit of the doubt because you posted so much pretzel-brain nonsense recently my incorrect interpretation seemed like the most obvious way to read what you wrote. I actually have no strong feelings towards you.
People can't become smarter just because you tell them to. However (and maybe I'm misinterpreting you and it's all just a game to you), you come across as willfully ignorant most of the time, unwilling to broaden your horizon, unwilling to look for correlations, unwilling to follow the facts and go where they lead you, enjoying stereotypical thinking and easy (but incorrect) solutions to complex issues.
I constantly adjust and refine my outlook when I come across new information. I know confirmation bias is a basic human trait (we all have it), and I try to actively counteract its effects on me by accepting "unpleasant" facts, too instead of just ignoring them and moving on without allowing them to influence my thinking. Maybe give this a try, if you can. Note that I am not being condescending here.
504

Phoenix Dark

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12509 on: September 27, 2022, 10:03:41 AM »
https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1574593781168762880

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Maybe she's talking about Jews, guys
[close]
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benjipwns

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12510 on: September 27, 2022, 02:28:08 PM »
My point is simply that her moral indignation and illusions of moral decay are a basic tenant of fascism, alongside the hyper nationalist populism and the mythic appeal to returning to a past normalcy that (likely) never existed. Make Italy Great Again. That's fascism 101, by any basic historical or political theory measure.
I agree and disagree with your posts on this. These things predate fascism, actual fascism (not "fascist" politicians, there's a difference) was not really appealing to a past but a SUPERIOR FUTURE (™ held by MovieBob) the fascist attacks on the modern liberal society were that they had weakened the once strong state but the fascists had no interest in returning to the specific governance conditions of those states only the position of strength. The fascists held many of those states to also be inherently corrupt and weakened for not moving in fascist directions but instead giving up their strength by following liberalism. At the same time, the anarcho-libertarian position is that while the fascist states lost the war, the fascists won politically as all modern politics appeal in the same ways the fascists did. It's not just Make [Z] Great Again but also the Obama campaign was equally fascist in the things it appealed to. The "Third Way" mystique never went away even after the fascists failed to figure out what it was supposed to be which leaves modern "leftists" and "rightists" both able to claim the fascists as their opposition by pointing to both rhetoric and practice of the fascists.

Someone like Viktor Orban both complicates and supports theories of fascist resurgence, there's no past of Hungary to appeal to which is why they have to falsify it to appeal to the conservatives in the coalition, the real political appeal is to a mythic Hungarian future that will avoid the failures of the past by resisting liberalism. Trump (and Obama before him) appeals in the same way, his appeal to modern American failure makes no sense if you actually listen to the specific claims but the notion appeals because you can't say "America always sucked" and have Americans listen. This disconnect fits into the original fascist states of the war period, the fascists of Italy, Spain and Germany didn't need to appeal to mythic pasts, all of those cultures had strong past states in their history, the appeal was to how those states fell to their current situation (liberalism) and how the fascists could avoid it (tbd) in the now.

We do a disservice to our liberal politics to focus our fears so much on fascism when illiberalism need not ever adhere to fascism to find traction and success.

Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12511 on: September 27, 2022, 04:53:15 PM »
The referendum results have rolled in.

Donetsk Republic 98.69%
Lugansk Republic 98.42%
Kherson region 87.05%
Zhaporozhye region 93.11%

Unfortunately I can't question these election results as that makes me an enemy of democracy.
🤴

Occam

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12512 on: September 27, 2022, 05:00:25 PM »
So why would Russia sabotage its own pipelines to Europe which are not in use? To be able to claim the U.S. did it?
504

Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12513 on: September 27, 2022, 05:07:14 PM »
Seems that quite a few people think the US is involved somehow after Biden said they would shut it down and had ways to do so.
Which doesn't make any sense but neither would it make sense for Russia.

So the third and obvious answer is someone who had to gain from this. Russian resistance or Ukraine.

Sweden has all but confirmed that it was attacked
https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1574837779481202689
« Last Edit: September 27, 2022, 05:16:21 PM by Nintex »
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benjipwns

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12514 on: September 27, 2022, 05:33:12 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)
https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/1574776653905010688
Quote
In the audio, published by the Guido Fawkes website shortly before Labour leader Keir Starmer gave his flagship speech at Conference, Huq says of Kwarteng, who became Britain's first black Chancellor earlier this month, that: "Superficially he is a black man.

"He went to Eton, I think, he went to a very expensive prep school, all the way through, the top schools in the country.

"If you hear him on the Today programme, you wouldn't know he is black."
:biden

Phoenix Dark

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12515 on: September 27, 2022, 05:34:04 PM »
My point is simply that her moral indignation and illusions of moral decay are a basic tenant of fascism, alongside the hyper nationalist populism and the mythic appeal to returning to a past normalcy that (likely) never existed. Make Italy Great Again. That's fascism 101, by any basic historical or political theory measure.
I agree and disagree with your posts on this. These things predate fascism, actual fascism (not "fascist" politicians, there's a difference) was not really appealing to a past but a SUPERIOR FUTURE (™ held by MovieBob) the fascist attacks on the modern liberal society were that they had weakened the once strong state but the fascists had no interest in returning to the specific governance conditions of those states only the position of strength. The fascists held many of those states to also be inherently corrupt and weakened for not moving in fascist directions but instead giving up their strength by following liberalism. At the same time, the anarcho-libertarian position is that while the fascist states lost the war, the fascists won politically as all modern politics appeal in the same ways the fascists did. It's not just Make [Z] Great Again but also the Obama campaign was equally fascist in the things it appealed to. The "Third Way" mystique never went away even after the fascists failed to figure out what it was supposed to be which leaves modern "leftists" and "rightists" both able to claim the fascists as their opposition by pointing to both rhetoric and practice of the fascists.

Someone like Viktor Orban both complicates and supports theories of fascist resurgence, there's no past of Hungary to appeal to which is why they have to falsify it to appeal to the conservatives in the coalition, the real political appeal is to a mythic Hungarian future that will avoid the failures of the past by resisting liberalism. Trump (and Obama before him) appeals in the same way, his appeal to modern American failure makes no sense if you actually listen to the specific claims but the notion appeals because you can't say "America always sucked" and have Americans listen. This disconnect fits into the original fascist states of the war period, the fascists of Italy, Spain and Germany didn't need to appeal to mythic pasts, all of those cultures had strong past states in their history, the appeal was to how those states fell to their current situation (liberalism) and how the fascists could avoid it (tbd) in the now.

We do a disservice to our liberal politics to focus our fears so much on fascism when illiberalism need not ever adhere to fascism to find traction and success.

You sure know a lot about fascism. Fascist.
010

Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12516 on: September 27, 2022, 05:39:45 PM »
https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1574711691522281479

She's an absolute disaster, wonder what she'll wreck next week?

https://twitter.com/FirstSquawk/status/1574858031065878529

Strongest possible response? Is Frans Timmermans going to belly dance?

https://twitter.com/JeppeKofod/status/1574873967524978688
« Last Edit: September 27, 2022, 06:20:44 PM by Nintex »
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Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12517 on: September 27, 2022, 06:52:35 PM »
Ukrainian forces already running into mobilized Russian conscripts.
https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1574863610014228481

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1574870352248930307

A Russian complaining that he won't receive any training before going off to fight in a tank unit
https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1574721960281513990

Lyman is nearly surrounded, which would be another huge blow to the Russians.
Putin is expected to give a speech on the 30th, so it looks like lots of troops will be send to Ukraine on the 29th.


Was this attempted after WWII or was the mood too hot after that?
During WWII the Germans attempted to create a unified European state.
As such the idea of one European state wasn't very popular. However, all sorts of alliances popped up, such as the Benelux (Belgium, Netherlands Luxembourg) and the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC).
The ECSC was formed by West Germany, The Netherlands, France, Italy, Belgium and Luxembourg. It basically regulated Coal and Steel production and kept the distribution fair. As such none of the members could have a superior military.
This is considered the starting point of the EU.

Germany's WWII trade networks and bureaucracy also paved the way for the EU. Before the war ended the SS and German elite spend most of their time trying to preserve the economic empire. In the occupied lands their attempt was actually quite succesful. Most German industrialists kept their companies or trade relations with companies they temporarily controlled during the war. Only a few years ago it was discovered or declassified that there was a military wing of this 'shadow empire' too. Around ~200k soldiers on standby in West Germany in case the American/French/English occupation turned violent or they would fail to keep out the communists.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2022, 07:18:04 PM by Nintex »
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Propagandhim

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12518 on: September 27, 2022, 07:11:48 PM »
Please let me live long enough to watch Putin get shot on national television

Transhuman

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12519 on: September 27, 2022, 07:30:30 PM »
Please let me live long enough to watch Putin get shot on national television

I'm surprised no-one has tried yet tbh, considering what Putin has done to the country

https://www.youtubetrimmer.com/view/?v=umc8HmyAVps&start=698&end=708&loop=0

Madrun Badrun

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Uncle

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12521 on: September 27, 2022, 07:32:44 PM »
Please let me live long enough to watch Putin get shot on national television

looking forward to the death of any public figure regardless of affiliation is against EU regulation p48j.32, having been deemed "evidence of a rotten soul" and is punishable by fine or imprisonment

should the individual violating this regulation not reside in the EU at this time, they can expect justice to be meted out accordingly should they ever make landfall in a member state

your acknowledgement of this notice is appreciated, and have a nice day
Uncle

Propagandhim

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12522 on: September 27, 2022, 07:51:30 PM »
Please let me live long enough to watch Putin get shot on national television

looking forward to the death of any public figure regardless of affiliation is against EU regulation p48j.32, having been deemed "evidence of a rotten soul" and is punishable by fine or imprisonment

should the individual violating this regulation not reside in the EU at this time, they can expect justice to be meted out accordingly should they ever make landfall in a member state

your acknowledgement of this notice is appreciated, and have a nice day

You misunderstand.  It was more a statement that I wanted to live into a ripe old age.   And I fear the greatest Russian leader to ever grace the Federation will be killed, but not before he lives a long, fruitful life of brilliant leadership.  I just hope I can live that long, too.

benjipwns

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12523 on: September 27, 2022, 08:00:20 PM »
And I fear the greatest Russian leader to ever grace the Federation
At the very least, he's top three easily. Nobody can dispute this.

Transhuman

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12524 on: September 27, 2022, 08:23:08 PM »
And I fear the greatest Russian leader to ever grace the Federation
At the very least, he's top three easily. Nobody can dispute this.


HardcoreRetro

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Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12526 on: September 28, 2022, 04:41:19 AM »
« Last Edit: September 28, 2022, 04:49:05 AM by Nintex »
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Tycoon Padre

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12527 on: September 28, 2022, 06:01:31 AM »
https://twitter.com/radeksikorski/status/1574800653724966915

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1490792461979078662

Nordstream stuff is pretty bizarre. Maybe I've been infested by the Tucker brainworms but all things being equal, it does seem to make more sense for the US to have blown up something the Russians want to use as leverage, than for Russia to eliminate their own ability to do so.

Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12528 on: September 28, 2022, 06:14:08 AM »
The Russians have cut off all their gas supplies through other means as well.
https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1575032762322808832

Poland opened up a new pipeline yesterday for the supply of gas from Norway to Europe.
https://twitter.com/czaplinskiii/status/1574806108404961280

I'm seeing the term 'energy war' get some traction
https://twitter.com/lisaabramowicz1/status/1575062948938063872
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Nintex

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Sman

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12530 on: September 28, 2022, 08:51:20 AM »
Edit: won't let me embed. Never mind.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2022, 08:56:48 AM by Sman »


Phoenix Dark

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12532 on: September 28, 2022, 09:01:26 AM »
Same group of propagandists who have spent most of 2022 claiming Russia wouldn't possibly attack Ukraine, Russia will win the war within days, Ukrainians are Nazis developing biolab weapons, US weapons aren't reaching Ukrainian soldiers, etc are now telling us the US bombed the pipeline. Yea ok.
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Himu

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IYKYK

Himu

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12534 on: September 28, 2022, 10:02:10 AM »
I am sorry, I misinterpreted your post. I didn't give you the benefit of the doubt because you posted so much pretzel-brain nonsense recently my incorrect interpretation seemed like the most obvious way to read what you wrote. I actually have no strong feelings towards you.
People can't become smarter just because you tell them to. However (and maybe I'm misinterpreting you and it's all just a game to you), you come across as willfully ignorant most of the time, unwilling to broaden your horizon, unwilling to look for correlations, unwilling to follow the facts and go where they lead you, enjoying stereotypical thinking and easy (but incorrect) solutions to complex issues.
I constantly adjust and refine my outlook when I come across new information. I know confirmation bias is a basic human trait (we all have it), and I try to actively counteract its effects on me by accepting "unpleasant" facts, too instead of just ignoring them and moving on without allowing them to influence my thinking. Maybe give this a try, if you can. Note that I am not being condescending here.

I used to think like you and be more liberal. I have simply concluded that left are politics are "wrong" in my very binary brain. I spent a lifetime thinking and propagating progressive politics. Light switch went off and now I deny them. They often bring up problems that need resolving but I'm not convinced on the majority of their solutions, not that the right is correct about everything. I am also stubborn.
IYKYK

Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12535 on: September 28, 2022, 04:12:46 PM »
🤴

Phoenix Dark

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12536 on: September 28, 2022, 05:22:08 PM »
I'd need to see that verified by another source. If true....  :lol

Seems like they should have done the referendum ages ago as a pretext for mobilization. Instead of making the pretext "we're getting our asses kicked and need more men."
010

Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12537 on: September 28, 2022, 05:40:59 PM »
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Potato

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12538 on: September 28, 2022, 06:14:08 PM »
I am sorry, I misinterpreted your post. I didn't give you the benefit of the doubt because you posted so much pretzel-brain nonsense recently my incorrect interpretation seemed like the most obvious way to read what you wrote. I actually have no strong feelings towards you.
People can't become smarter just because you tell them to. However (and maybe I'm misinterpreting you and it's all just a game to you), you come across as willfully ignorant most of the time, unwilling to broaden your horizon, unwilling to look for correlations, unwilling to follow the facts and go where they lead you, enjoying stereotypical thinking and easy (but incorrect) solutions to complex issues.
I constantly adjust and refine my outlook when I come across new information. I know confirmation bias is a basic human trait (we all have it), and I try to actively counteract its effects on me by accepting "unpleasant" facts, too instead of just ignoring them and moving on without allowing them to influence my thinking. Maybe give this a try, if you can. Note that I am not being condescending here.

I used to think like you and be more liberal. I have simply concluded that left are politics are "wrong" in my very binary brain. I spent a lifetime thinking and propagating progressive politics. Light switch went off and now I deny them. They often bring up problems that need resolving but I'm not convinced on the majority of their solutions, not that the right is correct about everything. I am also stubborn.
The duality of theboredotcum  :miyamoto
Spud

Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12539 on: September 28, 2022, 06:15:24 PM »
https://twitter.com/BondHack/status/1575208869889835008

Pension funds were about to go bust  :doge
🤴