Author Topic: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster  (Read 1304544 times)

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Himu

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12420 on: September 21, 2022, 08:47:43 PM »
Support the People of Iran
IYKYK

benjipwns

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BIONIC

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12422 on: September 21, 2022, 09:40:56 PM »
Nintendo General Discussion |OT| Support the People of Iran

Fixed
Margs


Potato

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12424 on: September 21, 2022, 11:15:43 PM »
https://twitter.com/navyhato/status/1572029695457366018

 :brain
This is your brain...this is your brain when you conveniently forget that Russia invaded another sovereign nation on the pre-text of "denazification"...
Spud

Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12425 on: September 22, 2022, 03:43:44 AM »
By monday Ukraine is the invader of Russian lands the twitter poll referendum says so. Who can possibly resist the great benefits of Russian citizenship.

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1572825644551245825
:juche
« Last Edit: September 22, 2022, 03:48:25 AM by Nintex »
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Occam

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12426 on: September 22, 2022, 04:24:30 AM »
BTW, foxnews.com doesn't even mention Russia's partial mobilization. Just like they didn't mention Ukraine liberating occupied territory and cities.

Reminds me of that study from a few years ago which found that Fox News viewers are actually less informed about what is actually going on nationally and internationally than people who don't consume news at all.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2022, 04:29:15 AM by Occam »
504

Phoenix Dark

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12427 on: September 22, 2022, 12:49:32 PM »
BTW, foxnews.com doesn't even mention Russia's partial mobilization. Just like they didn't mention Ukraine liberating occupied territory and cities.

Reminds me of that study from a few years ago which found that Fox News viewers are actually less informed about what is actually going on nationally and internationally than people who don't consume news at all.
They also have Tucker on air in primetime claiming Putin is winning the war. That was during the Ukrainian counter offensive too.
010

Phoenix Dark

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010

Occam

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12429 on: September 22, 2022, 01:31:49 PM »
Hahaha!

https://novayagazeta.eu/articles/2022/09/21/navalnys-team-phones-son-of-kremlin-spokesman-peskov-inviting-him-to-come-to-conscription-office-he-refused-citing-political-nuances-news

Quote
Nizovtsev introduced himself as a military commissar.

The reporter told Nikolay Peskov that he should have received a call-up paper and asked him whether Nikolay would come to the conscription office tomorrow at 10 a.m.

“Naturally, I won’t come at 10 a.m. tomorrow. If you know that I am Mr. Peskov, you should understand that it is not quite right for me to be there. I will be resolving this matter on a different level,” Nikolay Peskov said.

Seems the son of the Kremlin spokesman doesn't want to fight in Ukraine.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2022, 01:36:24 PM by Occam »
504

Raist

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12430 on: September 22, 2022, 01:53:32 PM »
Yet another brilliant idea from the geniuses in Moskow.

https://twitter.com/BarentsNews/status/1572895441569697792

Raist

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Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12432 on: September 22, 2022, 02:39:36 PM »
https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1572924327405707264

Thankfully not all slaves listen to their masters.


https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1572969458112544770

https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1572881804360572928

These guys are probably shipped straight to the front lines. Absolute insanity.
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Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12433 on: September 22, 2022, 02:47:19 PM »
Dutch public broadcasting channel announces a Referendum for Russia to join the Netherlands :dead

https://twitter.com/henkvaness/status/1572790646011740160
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Nintex

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Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12435 on: September 23, 2022, 08:07:22 AM »
They are actually, seriously fucking doing this, in the year of our lord 2022

https://twitter.com/andreibc/status/1572905068168609793

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1573247081904578562

Time to vote  :ussrcry



In multiple videos of both enlisted and commanders shouting at them it's now confirmed that the Russian conscripts will receive 2 weeks of training before they head for the front.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2022, 09:24:14 AM by Nintex »
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Pissy F Benny

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12436 on: September 23, 2022, 11:27:21 AM »
Operation human shield :nothing
(ice)

Propagandhim

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12437 on: September 23, 2022, 11:30:27 AM »
Is it confirmed they're actually going to the field with those bolt-action Mosin-Nagant rifles or were they just equipped for marksman training with that gun?  I know we're all well aware they don't have the money for equipment, but it can't possibly be that bad?  That's insane.

Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12438 on: September 23, 2022, 12:17:39 PM »
Is it confirmed they're actually going to the field with those bolt-action Mosin-Nagant rifles or were they just equipped for marksman training with that gun?  I know we're all well aware they don't have the money for equipment, but it can't possibly be that bad?  That's insane.
Some of them will. In some barracks they don't even seem to have beds, just bed frames.
People as old as 63 have been drafted, in the far East entire villages have been emptied out as well as universities, mines and colleges, with only women and children remaining behind.

If this was any other country you would expect that these units would mostly serve as the rearguard and in support roles (cooks, drivers, policing, engineers, builders etc.) to free up regular soldiers for fighting roles but the Russian Empire clearly intends to send these units to the front lines so they can become 'men' and 'learn on the job'. The military strategy is probably to overwhelm the Ukrainian defenders by attacking with large numbers across the 1000km front just as the Soviets did in WW2 against Germany.
Like the Wehrmacht Ukraine doesn't have the manpower to hold the line everywhere. The newly arrived Russian troops won't have much in terms of winter gear and the supply situation in the occupied region isn't optimal so they will be forced to attack quickly.
However, Russia can't mass mobilize like they could in WW2. These units will arrive at the front in small platoon sized groups not in divisions or battalions.

I don't think they will send them out far though, this is probably to force Ukraine out of Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and the other regions they're holding referendums in.
Once they've achieved this 'victory' and Ukraine is unable to take back those regions, planning for renewed offensives on Kyiv and Odessa will begin.
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HaughtyFrank

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12439 on: September 23, 2022, 01:56:01 PM »
https://twitter.com/Reevellp/status/1573272879655010306

Everyone seems aware how the Russian military is a complete shit show. Poor bastards

Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12440 on: September 23, 2022, 05:00:20 PM »
Ok crazy ass rumor circulating but these are crazy ass times.
 
- Military column in Beijing
- Many flights cancelled
- Xi Jinping is under house arrest
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james

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12441 on: September 23, 2022, 05:11:34 PM »
Wrong thread Nintex
:O

james

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12442 on: September 23, 2022, 05:15:51 PM »
I checked in with my sources at flight aware dot com and air traffic is normal
:O

Nintex

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Uncle

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12444 on: September 23, 2022, 07:58:54 PM »
Ok crazy ass rumor circulating but these are crazy ass times.
 
- Military column in Beijing
- Many flights cancelled
- Xi Jinping is under house arrest

this is why putin launched his attack when he did

behind the scenes he has allies in the chinese military, and under advisement that their coup was forthcoming, he moved forward knowing that eventually he would have the full support of china on his side as well

it's easy to sanction russia, but the combined might of russia and china will mean that the rest of the world dares not intervene in the area under threat of nuclear devastation

russia gets ukraine, china gets taiwan
Uncle

Himu

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12445 on: September 23, 2022, 08:00:55 PM »


🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾

So proud of these Muslims :heartbeat
IYKYK

Potato

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12446 on: September 24, 2022, 12:55:45 AM »
Which ones? The morality police cracking down on women who don't want to be murdered for choosing what to wear or the women choosing what to wear?
Spud


Transhuman

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12448 on: September 24, 2022, 12:38:20 PM »
I don't understand how the Russians aren't more worried these soldiers will desert or defect. Since seasoned soldiers were deserting (and defecting sometimes) surely the civilian rate will be 10x that. At least the Ukrainians wouldn't give them weapons that look like they will explode in their hands.

Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12449 on: September 24, 2022, 05:42:27 PM »
I don't understand how the Russians aren't more worried these soldiers will desert or defect. Since seasoned soldiers were deserting (and defecting sometimes) surely the civilian rate will be 10x that. At least the Ukrainians wouldn't give them weapons that look like they will explode in their hands.
Putin signed into law that they will go to prison for 10 years if they surrender.
And of course there will be Chechens and Wagner behind the lines to shoot any deserters.

Also they simply lie to them, that much is clear from the POW interviews.

In most cases command tells them that they will go to a '2nd line' that they have to do policing or that they will drive the medics or repair the tanks.
And the next thing they know, they board a train in Belgorod, arrive in Ukraine, board their vehicles and realize that they're at the front line.
At that point there's simply no way back and under artillery fire it becomes a matter of fighting to survive.

Remember that most of the first wave back in February thought they were going to do exercises and then found themselves under fire not realizing that they had entered Ukraine.
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Transhuman

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12450 on: September 24, 2022, 08:14:21 PM »
As soon as they come under fire the recruits surely start mulling over killing the ranking officer and flying the surrender flag, or retreating and taking the 10 years (assuming Putin has 10 more years in power which seems unlikely).

benjipwns

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12451 on: September 24, 2022, 08:27:56 PM »
I don't understand how the Russians aren't more worried these soldiers will desert or defect. Since seasoned soldiers were deserting (and defecting sometimes) surely the civilian rate will be 10x that. At least the Ukrainians wouldn't give them weapons that look like they will explode in their hands.
Putin signed into law that they will go to prison for 10 years if they surrender.
And of course there will be Chechens and Wagner behind the lines to shoot any deserters.
The thing about fighting a war entirely on foreign soil is that deserting doesn't mean you have to come back. :rollsafe

benjipwns

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12452 on: September 25, 2022, 01:33:24 AM »
Occam's Utopia Intensifies:
When the police pounded the door before dawn at a home in northwest Germany, a bleary-eyed young man in his boxer shorts answered. The officers asked for his father, who was at work.

They told him that his 51-year-old father was accused of violating laws against online hate speech, insults and misinformation. He had shared an image on Facebook with an inflammatory statement about immigration falsely attributed to a German politician. “Just because someone rapes, robs or is a serious criminal is not a reason for deportation,” the fake remark said.

The police then scoured the home for about 30 minutes, seizing a laptop and tablet as evidence, prosecutors said.

At that exact moment in March, a similar scene was playing out at about 100 other homes across Germany, part of a coordinated nationwide crackdown that continues to this day. After sharing images circulating on Facebook that carried a fake statement, the perpetrators had devices confiscated and some were fined.

“We are making it clear that anyone who posts hate messages must expect the police to be at the front door afterward,” Holger Münch, the head of the Federal Criminal Police Office, said after the March raids.
Quote
The authorities in Germany argue that they are encouraging and defending free speech by providing a space where people can share opinions without fear of being attacked or abused.

“There has to be a line you cannot cross,” said Svenja Meininghaus, a state prosecutor who attended the raid of the father’s house. “There has to be consequences.”
Quote
Daniel Holznagel, a former Justice Ministry official who helped draft the internet enforcement laws passed in 2017, compared the crackdown to going after copyright violators. He said people stopped illegally downloading music and movies as much after authorities began issuing fines and legal warnings.

“You can’t prosecute everyone, but it will have a big effect if you show that prosecution is possible,” said Mr. Holznagel, who is now a judge.
Quote
No national figures exist on the total number of people charged with online speech-related crimes. But in a review of German state records, The New York Times found more than 8,500 cases. Overall, more than 1,000 people have been charged or punished since 2018, a figure many experts said is probably much higher.

Much of the daily work policing the internet falls to local teams like the one in Göttingen that is responsible for covering cases across Lower Saxony, a vast state in northern Germany. Created in 2020, the group of six lawyers and investigators is one of the most aggressive in the country. Last year, it investigated 566 internet speech-related crimes, a figure the unit expects to more than double in 2022. About 28 percent of those investigations resulted in a fine or other punishment. In one case involving a man making death threats on Telegram, the prosecutors had him committed to a psychiatric institution.

The team is stretched thin, constantly gathering evidence for prosecutions, drafting search and arrest warrants, responding to lawyers asking to have their client’s devices returned and preparing for court. Authorities in Lower Saxony raid homes up to multiple times per month, sometimes with a local television crew in tow.

Frank-Michael Laue, who started the unit after a two-decade career as a criminal prosecutor, said that stiff penalties draw attention and change behavior. He boasted of fining a well-known painter in the community the equivalent of roughly $10,000 for sharing insults about Turkish immigrants.

When people refuse to give access to their smartphones for evidence, Mr. Laue said, the device can be sent to a lab operated by the federal government that uses software that can bypass passwords. Made by a company called Cellebrite, it is the same kind of software used by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in the United States.

Investigators scour social media feeds, publicly available records and government data to build cases. Swen Weiland, a software developer turned internet hate speech investigator, is in charge of unmasking people behind anonymous accounts. He hunts for clues about where a person lives and works, and connections to friends and family. After an unknown Twitter user compared Covid restrictions to the Holocaust, he used an online registry of licensed architects to help identify the culprit as a middle-aged woman.

“I try to find out what they do in their normal life,” Mr. Weiland said. “If I find where they live or their relatives then I can get the real person. The internet does not forget.”
Quote
And it was that post that eventually led to the raid of that 51-year-old father’s house in northwest Germany. The father, whose name was not shared by authorities because of Germany’s strict privacy laws, is still under investigation in Lower Saxony as police examine the contents of his devices. Even if he did not know the comment attributed to Ms. Bause was fake, he still faces punishment because “the accused bears the risk of spreading a false quote without checking it,” prosecutors said.

The father faces a fine of about 1,400 euros (about $1,378), a penalty welcomed by Ms. Bause. “That’s a warning shot that they can’t just accuse and hurt people with impunity,” she said.
Quote
Last year, Christian Endt, a journalist in Berlin whose coverage of Covid drew a steady stream of insults online, reached a breaking point. After an anonymous Twitter user had called him “stupid” and mentally ill, he embarked on a mission to see if he could get the person prosecuted.

The person’s account did not include a real name, but it had a photo on the profile page. That allowed Mr. Endt to perform an image search to see where else on the internet the image could be found. It led him to a LinkedIn page of a small-business owner. From there, he found the individual’s company website, phone number and home address.

Mr. Endt compiled his finding in a memo and sent it to the local district attorney. In December, the case landed with the online hate unit in Lower Saxony, where the culprit lived. After reviewing the evidence, they sent the man a fine worth about €1,000.

“I was not even sure if what this guy wrote was a crime or not,” Mr. Endt said. “In the end, I’m happy they did something about it and this person got a signal that there are some limits on free speech.”
Quote
Last year, Andy Grote, a city senator responsible for public safety and the police in Hamburg, broke the local social distancing rules — which he was in charge of enforcing — by hosting a small election party in a downtown bar.

After Mr. Grote later made remarks admonishing others for hosting parties during the pandemic, a Twitter user wrote: “Du bist so 1 Pimmel” (“You are such a penis”).

Three months later, six police officers raided the house of the man who had posted the insult, looking for his electronic devices.
Quote
Not long after the incident, Alexander Mai, a 26-year-old climate activist who lives in the Bavarian city of Augsburg, got into a Facebook argument with a local far-right politician named Andreas Jurca. In response to a message by Mr. Jurca criticizing Muslims, Mr. Mai posted a link to a picture of the mural.

Several weeks later, four police officers pounded on Mr. Mai’s door at 6 a.m. with a warrant to confiscate his electronics. Mr. Jurca had filed a police report claiming the link to the photo was an insult.

The police spent over an hour rummaging through his drawers and belongings before leaving with several laptops and phones.
Quote
In June, in the town of Kassel in central Germany, a 49-year-old man was on trial for comments made on Facebook that said Mr. Lübcke, the politician murdered in 2019, had “himself to blame.”

Dirk B., the defendant whose full name is being withheld because of Germany’s strict privacy laws, told a judge that the comments were taken out of context. His Facebook post, he said, had been about Mr. Lübcke’s refusal of police protection and that he had, in the same comments, expressed condolences for Mr. Lübcke’s family.

“This falls under the freedom of expression in our free democratic state,” the defendant said. He added that he would post the same thing again.

The judge disagreed. At the end of the two-hour hearing, she said he had effectively condoned Mr. Lübcke’s murder. He was ordered to pay a fine of €2,400.
:american :american :american :american

Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12453 on: September 25, 2022, 04:11:04 AM »
Happens in the Netherlands too but the accused usually leave out a few details. For example a guy said he got a police visit for tweeting to the Police "are you doing ok?". But he left out the second half of his tweet: "are you doing ok? Hacking you is very easy"

Free bus travel in moscow
https://twitter.com/Sota_Vision/status/1573701145054396417
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Occam

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12454 on: September 25, 2022, 04:52:35 AM »
@benjipwns
So you are telling me there are consequences for publicly defaming others in Germany and you actually need to actively ensure you don't spread lies (made up quotes) online which cause damage to someone's reputation and personal freedom/safety? Meaning that someone like Trump could never rise to power there? Huh, what do you know!

By the way, the search of the home of the man who posted the "you're such a penis"-insult was deemed unlawful by a court in Hamburg last month, the criminal case was dismissed and he was not fined. A pretty relevant bit of information the NYT reporter failed to research (but I just did): https://newsrnd.com/news/2022-08-05-house-search-in-%22pimmelgate%22-affair-was-unlawful.ryGNWY35a5.html
504

Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12455 on: September 25, 2022, 05:05:44 AM »
All the made up quotes and lies about Anthony Weiner, Epstein island + Bill, Hunter, Hilldawg, Jeb!, Chris + Andrew Cuomo, Megan Markle, Bezos, Morning Joe + Mika ...

:trumps
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jorma

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12456 on: September 25, 2022, 06:26:56 AM »
@benjipwns
So you are telling me there are consequences for publicly defaming others in Germany and you actually need to actively ensure you don't spread lies (made up quotes) online which cause damage to someone's reputation and personal freedom/safety? Meaning that someone like Trump could never rise to power there? Huh, what do you know!

By the way, the search of the home of the man who posted the "you're such a penis"-insult was deemed unlawful by a court in Hamburg last month, the criminal case was dismissed and he was not fined. A pretty relevant bit of information the NYT reporter failed to research (but I just did): https://newsrnd.com/news/2022-08-05-house-search-in-%22pimmelgate%22-affair-was-unlawful.ryGNWY35a5.html

Sending the cops to raid the home of a citizen who called you a dick on twitter sounds suspiciously like something Trump would do all the time if he had the german anti free speech laws to back him up.  :trumps

Nintex

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Transhuman

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12458 on: September 25, 2022, 12:39:32 PM »
He had shared an image on Facebook with an inflammatory statement about immigration falsely attributed to a German politician. “Just because someone rapes, robs or is a serious criminal is not a reason for deportation,” the fake remark said.



Should I be jailed Occam?



“Just because someone rapes, robs or is a serious criminal is not a reason for deportation"

-Donald Trump
On his plans for life after politics


Pissy F Benny

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12459 on: September 25, 2022, 12:40:27 PM »
He had shared an image on Facebook with an inflammatory statement about immigration falsely attributed to a German politician. “Just because someone rapes, robs or is a serious criminal is not a reason for deportation,” the fake remark said.

(Image removed from quote.)

Should I be jailed Occam?

(Image removed from quote.)

“Just because someone rapes, robs or is a serious criminal is not a reason for deportation"

-Donald Trump
On his plans for life after politics

Yes.
(ice)

Transhuman

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12460 on: September 25, 2022, 12:52:46 PM »
Oh

Occam

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12461 on: September 25, 2022, 12:59:38 PM »
anti free speech laws

What do you mean, anti-free speech laws? You mean laws protecting the safety and reputation of people targeted by lies and defamation?
504

Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12462 on: September 25, 2022, 01:04:34 PM »
He had shared an image on Facebook with an inflammatory statement about immigration falsely attributed to a German politician. “Just because someone rapes, robs or is a serious criminal is not a reason for deportation,” the fake remark said.

(Image removed from quote.)

Should I be jailed Occam?

(Image removed from quote.)

“Just because someone rapes, robs or is a serious criminal is not a reason for deportation"

-Donald Trump
On his plans for life after politics
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jorma

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12463 on: September 25, 2022, 01:11:34 PM »
anti free speech laws

What do you mean, anti-free speech laws? You mean laws protecting the safety and reputation of people targeted by lies and defamation?

du bist so 1 pimmel, occam  :lol

But no, i did mean the german anti free speech laws, but you are free to call them whatever you want.

or are you free to call them whatever you want? not really sure. i guess if the cops raid your home and take all your electronical devices you can always rely on that you'll get them back a year later - if the german courts decides that you didn't speak out of order




Occam

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12464 on: September 25, 2022, 01:14:39 PM »
But in America there are laws against slander/libel, too.
The difference being, in the U.S. you need lots of money to enforce them and protect your rights.
504

Uncle

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12465 on: September 25, 2022, 04:21:11 PM »
anti free speech laws

What do you mean, anti-free speech laws? You mean laws protecting the safety and reputation of people targeted by lies and defamation?

answer the question occam, should transhuman be jailed

 ???
Uncle

benjipwns

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12466 on: September 25, 2022, 04:44:56 PM »
But in America there are laws against slander/libel, too.
The difference being, in the U.S. you need lots of money to enforce them and protect your rights.
Not criminal laws, certainly not used against people who don't know the speech is false and you can't easily fire up the state to harass your enemies into silence because they called you a penis online.

@benjipwns
So you are telling me there are consequences for publicly defaming others in Germany and you actually need to actively ensure you don't spread lies (made up quotes) online which cause damage to someone's reputation and personal freedom/safety? Meaning that someone like Trump could never rise to power there? Huh, what do you know!
You may have noticed the way all the stories involving politicians and public figures I quoted were going. (Hint: not against them.) Combined with Trump's very litigious notions about what others can say about him in a country where he can't easily harass his enemies into silence I question why you think such laws would be stopping him.

answer the question occam, should transhuman be jailed

 ???
We did this in the prior conversation. Like many of these "progressives" he claims he doesn't want people thrown in prison he just advocates for lots of laws with the hard ever pervasive enforcement of them by the state on every minority in sight, he just doesn't want them immediately imprisoned until they fail to pay all the fines, attend all the hearings, meet all the terms, etc. so he can say it's "their fault" that the process is the punishment and he can pretend he wants law and order upheld instead of just wanting the state's violence used to silence people who speak up against power or say truthful things.

He also refused to explain why Trump couldn't have used similar laws to arrest anyone who said he lost the 2020 election. Just some handwave about that not being possible because the state only acts for good and democracy or some shit even after the corruption has snuck in due to the people being able to speak too much.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2022, 04:50:08 PM by benjipwns »

Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12467 on: September 25, 2022, 05:13:53 PM »
Oh god Italy elected the crazy woman  :lol
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Potato

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12468 on: September 25, 2022, 05:18:00 PM »
Oh god Italy elected the crazy woman  :lol
Let's be honest...when has Italy NOT elected a crazy person?
Spud

Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12469 on: September 25, 2022, 05:27:07 PM »
https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1574021987248242694

All these bitches think they're Oprah  :pacspit
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Propagandhim

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12470 on: September 25, 2022, 05:40:58 PM »
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1573697685181415430

I don't think they liked their sovereignty and democratic institutions being denied and interfered with by some German EU woman.  Communication matters.  This really pissed a lot of people off.  Meloni is an imbecile that blames everything on migrants; a huge midwit especially compared to Draghi...but "fascism" is a word that means something in Italy.  And it doesn't mean "right wing".  People over there have a distaste for being told they're fascists if they're voting in earnest, open, democratic elections, let alone being threatened economically for it by foreigners from northern europe in an economy where they can't pay their gas bills.  Vaffanculo. 
« Last Edit: September 25, 2022, 05:56:23 PM by Propagandhim »

Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12471 on: September 25, 2022, 06:10:21 PM »
Unfortunately for the Italian right, the EU has to approve their budget.
They'll just send Italy into another economic tail spin so they're back at the ballot box within 12 months or another banker gets appointed by the bureaucrats.

Only countries like Poland and Hungary have any sort of leverage but not for the right reasons.

There is no way to stop the current woke/climate/open-borders/privatization/monetary reset train.
After Trump and Brexit they're simply rushing towards their goal of creating a neo-liberal corporate hellscape for the greater good.
🤴

Propagandhim

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12472 on: September 25, 2022, 06:17:21 PM »
There's a good chance they could leave.  It's been downhill for them since 2008 and they're probably asking themselves, "How much worse can it be?"  Maybe open up a competing trade bloc with England  :derp

benjipwns

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12473 on: September 25, 2022, 06:35:58 PM »
twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1573697685181415430

I don't think they liked their sovereignty and democratic institutions being denied and interfered with by some German EU woman.  Communication matters.  This really pissed a lot of people off.  Meloni is an imbecile that blames everything on migrants; a huge midwit especially compared to Draghi...but "fascism" is a word that means something in Italy.  And it doesn't mean "right wing".  People over there have a distaste for being told they're fascists if they're voting in earnest, open, democratic elections, let alone being threatened economically for it by foreigners from northern europe in an economy where they can't pay their gas bills.  Vaffanculo.
All I see is the EU trying to protect democracy from too much free speech in Italy.

Talk shit Elect fascists and fuck around, get hit and find out. :trumps

Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12474 on: September 25, 2022, 06:41:03 PM »
The brits weren't in the Eurozone, they didn't owe the EU a whole lot of money and they already carved out all sorts of exemptions. They could 'decouple' from the EU.

The Greeks wanted to leave and options were explored like the Russians backing a Greek currency. But Putin either balked or couldn't afford it.
Varoufakis gave the PM the choice. He could head to the central bank with a hacker to take back control of their money from the ECB or he could resign as finance minister and Greece would remain in the Eurozone.
In the end the PM choose the latter and the EU demolished the 'Lazy Greeks' with 'reforms'.

Germany's position is less strong today than it was back then but Italy owes the EU a whole lot of money that would be impossible to pay back with their own currency.
Their best bet is probably to put the neuro/seuro or national Euro back on the table. The first idea is basically to split the Euro in 2 currencies, one for the north and one for the south.
The second is to allow countries to use the Euro for international trade and a seperate currency for domestic trade and basic necessities.

🤴

Propagandhim

  • Senior Member
Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12475 on: September 25, 2022, 06:52:37 PM »
The brits weren't in the Eurozone, they didn't owe the EU a whole lot of money and they already carved out all sorts of exemptions. They could 'decouple' from the EU.

The Greeks wanted to leave and options were explored like the Russians backing a Greek currency. But Putin either balked or couldn't afford it.
Varoufakis gave the PM the choice. He could head to the central bank with a hacker to take back control of their money from the ECB or he could resign as finance minister and Greece would remain in the Eurozone.
In the end the PM choose the latter and the EU demolished the 'Lazy Greeks' with 'reforms'.

Germany's position is less strong today than it was back then but Italy owes the EU a whole lot of money that would be impossible to pay back with their own currency.
Their best bet is probably to put the neuro/seuro or national Euro back on the table. The first idea is basically to split the Euro in 2 currencies, one for the north and one for the south.
The second is to allow countries to use the Euro for international trade and a seperate currency for domestic trade and basic necessities.

That debt grew 100% in 10 years.   In real terms, the country’s national income is almost exactly where it was 15 years ago.  The ECB is determined to bring inflation back to its 2% target and soaring energy costs probably will push Italy into another recession.     Imagine that Italy’s average debt costs are only 3% (that's being very charitable), and its trend growth rate is 1%. If inflation was back down to 2%, they would have to run a primary budget surplus – before interest payments.      Draghi had a detailed plan to do this and run a primary deficit until 2025, and it seemed to make sense -- Meloni doesn't have any such plan, nor does she probably even understand the situation -- she has no credibility or experience.   If growth remains low and interest rates rise, investors will balk out, things could crash hard, the EU could refuse to buy Italian debt if Meloni is doing too much ratchet shit with migrants.  Real bad situation.

That 2-part currency idea has always appealed to me, fwiw.

Propagandhim

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12476 on: September 25, 2022, 07:04:31 PM »
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2022/09/giorgia-meloni-italy-election-fascism-mussolini/671515/

Quote
Italy never underwent a process equivalent to Germany’s de-Nazification after World War II. At the start of the Cold War, the Allies wanted to block Western Europe’s largest Communist party from power. They took a minimalist approach to purges of fascists and other punitive measures that could cause social unrest in Italy.

 :neogaf

« Last Edit: September 25, 2022, 07:09:40 PM by Propagandhim »

Nintex

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12477 on: September 25, 2022, 07:17:33 PM »
I agree with what you deleted.

In any case, the EU is headed for a big crisis soon anyway.
Germany is supposed to be the production power house and currently they aren't producing shit and factories are being shutdown left and right because of high energy costs.
Small businesses are absolutely decimated by energy bills across the Eurozone. And all this is happening even before winter has started.

Meanwhile Von der Leyen and Timmermans are just spending money that should be saved for a rainy day on whatever 'current thing' they can find.
I can't think of a single market that isn't in complete shambles right now.

The whole ponzi scheme is crashing hard
🤴

BisMarckie

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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12478 on: September 25, 2022, 08:11:33 PM »
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2022/09/giorgia-meloni-italy-election-fascism-mussolini/671515/

Quote
Italy never underwent a process equivalent to Germany’s de-Nazification after World War II. At the start of the Cold War, the Allies wanted to block Western Europe’s largest Communist party from power. They took a minimalist approach to purges of fascists and other punitive measures that could cause social unrest in Italy.

 :neogaf

I love the denazification thing getting infinitely repeated as if it were true. Denazification was a sham and did almost nothing.

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
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Re: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster
« Reply #12479 on: September 25, 2022, 08:34:07 PM »
I love the denazification thing getting infinitely repeated as if it were true. Denazification was a sham and did almost nothing.
Uh, pretty sure they all got hung dude. Anti-fascists don't accept "just following orders" excuses. :ufup