Author Topic: International Politics Thread - Disease and Disaster  (Read 1291282 times)

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Assimilate

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Looks like the result of the Brazilian elections will be known in about 10 - 15 minutes.
here weee gooo

And that's it. Bolsonaro wins.

Nabbis

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Putin won.

Nintex

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56% Bolsonaro wins  :mynicca

Now we wait for CNN, The Guardian, Politico, MSNBC  :brazilcry

Mexico better watch out they're instantly surrounded by the Nazi's now.

Making use of gestures seems very effective to get elected.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2018, 06:21:09 PM by Nintex »
🤴

Propagandhim

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look at these cunts
https://twitter.com/TheEconomist/status/1056259812084850688

No one trusts the media anymore and trump is right to do what he does in calling it Fake News.

They always do this shit. "We lost a free, democratic election.  Democracy is in peril!"  They did the same thing when Salvini's party was elected - calling it a 'trend toward fascism'.  They think fascism is when the voting bloc coalesce around the democratically elected politician with strident anti-immigrant views.   

Assimilate

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look at these cunts
https://twitter.com/TheEconomist/status/1056259812084850688

No one trusts the media anymore and trump is right to do what he does in calling it Fake News.

They always do this shit. "We lost a free, democratic election.  Democracy is in peril!"  They did the same thing when Salvini was elected - calling it a 'trend toward fascism'.  They think fascism is when the voting bloc coalesce around the democratically elected politician with strident anti-immigrant views.
yeah it is fucking annoying.

if there is one thing I like about Trump it's that he went straight for the media. The media is has been shit for the last 20 years.

Nintex

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"Vote people, remember to vote"
"Boy do we love democracy"
"Don't boo... VOTE!"
"Your voice matters!"
"This guy said he won't accept the results BOOOO BOOOOO"

*voting ends, their guy didn't win*

"Oh no you dumb fuckers elected HITLER* again"

*Hitler was appointed Chancellor by a coalition of conservatives, military officers and businessmen not elected

"Look he once talked really loud and angry into a microphone just like YOU KNOW WHO"

"Wow, all those people waving their national flags. They're all a bunch of Nazi's 60% of the population *poof* instantly Nazi's"
🤴


benjipwns

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They always do this shit. "We lost a free, democratic election.  Democracy is in peril!" 
Ah, Kirk, my old friend, do you know the Klingon proverb that tells us "democracy dies in darkness"? Well, it is very cold in Brazil.

wait...let me try that again

Assimilate

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the guy has another post saying "Brazil has fallen"

like what? Bro the country is in shambles what do you mean it has NOW fallen?

libs are too much

Nabbis

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Propagandhim

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They always do this shit. "We lost a free, democratic election.  Democracy is in peril!" 
Ah, Kirk, my old friend, do you know the Klingon proverb that tells us "democracy dies in darkness"? Well, it is very cold in Brazil.

wait...let me try that again

Brazil needs fucking Judge Dredd at this point; a Park Chun-Hee not another charlatan that bilks the people and does some paltry, performative jail sentence.  The people have spoken. 

benjipwns

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a Park Chun-Hee not another charlatan that bilks the people and does some paltry, performative jail sentence.
assassinated at a dinner party?

benjipwns

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Propagandhim

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I hope those filmmakers were appropriately jailed.   :batman

benjipwns

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they got sued by his son or something, for portraying him as too favorable to Japanese culture

Cryo

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can someone who isn’t American or Nintex remind me why electing this guy was a good idea

Great Rumbler

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can someone who isn’t American or Nintex remind me why electing this guy was a good idea

something something liberals
dog

agrajag

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can someone who isn’t American or Nintex remind me why electing this guy was a good idea

something something liberals

Libruls causing truck accidents out there, stay safe Boritos

Rufus

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Past leaders have caused all the bad things. He is the opposite of them. Therefore, he will un-fuck everything. Also very nostalgic of Brazil's military dictatorship and an utter shitheel, but that doesn't mean anything/won't affect me/doesn't literally mean everything he says/etc.

Or, instead of my flippant nonsense:
https://soundcloud.com/watsoninstitute/making-sense-of-brazils-2018-presidential-election-1
https://soundcloud.com/watsoninstitute/making-sense-of-brazils-2018-presidential-election-part-2
(part 3 forthcoming)

Assimilate

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can someone who isn’t American or Nintex remind me why electing this guy was a good idea
The gist of it is this -

It was either him or the PT party puppet step in for Lula (former Brazilian president that is in jail). This party is responsible for Brazils problems, like really responsible. Most of them have gone to jail for one of the biggest corruption scandals in history (of any country).

The PT party even had a chance to run with a centrist called Ciro Gomez that would have won if he got their backing, which is a guy I did vote for on the first round of elections, but they didn't go with him because Lula (the guy in jail) wants to continue to control the party through his apointed puppets and Ciro wouldn't of gone with that.  So look how fucked up that situation is.

Bolsonaro is a right-wing former Military general that attracted a lot of political attention by being Trumpy, and saying outrageous shit. The people that voted for him hope he cracks down on crime, opens the country up for more foreign investment, and cleans house ending the corruption plaguing this country for decades now. That's what people hope for from him and what he has promised.

We shall see.

TakingBackSunday

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Fuck you dude, I hope you suffer for this shit
püp

shosta

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Mexico better watch out they're instantly surrounded by the Nazi's now.
Worst post of the day goes to you.
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shosta

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This party is responsible for Brazils problems, like really responsible. Most of them have gone to jail for one of the biggest corruption scandals in history (of any country).
Brazil is inundated with crime and poverty. It has crime and poverty because it's in a deep recession. It's in a deep recession because commodity prices plummeted and never recovered in 2014. This happened partially because countries like China slowed down a little, supply chains changed, etc. The US dropped a shit-ton of oil onto the market and then the Saudis waged a year long economic war against Texas farmers. New mines opened up in Africa. Two of Brazil's biggest exports are oil and iron, so guess what happened when more product entered the market.

PT didn't want to cut social services. That's one issue. But deep austerity would make the problem worse. Brazil needs a combination of a contractionary money policy to curb inflation and an intact safety net to keep people from being hopelessly destitute enough to resort to crime. Brazil kept an expansionary policy in the hopes that cheap credit would fix the economy, and people would reinvest into different markets. That didn't really work.

I got some of these details wrong inevitably but the point is that Brazi's problem is not corruption, it is not the left wing or the right wing, it's that the forces of the world are large, destructive, and capricious, and Brazil was like a fishing boat in the water while a huge whaling vessel passes by. Blaming Lula is dumb. Voting for Jair is dumb in many ways, too, although being Filipino I'm sympathetic to people who turn to someone who promises order when crime feels out of control and the government seems hopelessly corrupt. But perspective is important.
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Trent Dole

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The gay caravan is gonna be :lawd
You mean queeravan. 
Hi

Assimilate

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This party is responsible for Brazils problems, like really responsible. Most of them have gone to jail for one of the biggest corruption scandals in history (of any country).
Brazil is inundated with crime and poverty. It has crime and poverty because it's in a deep recession. It's in a deep recession because commodity prices plummeted and never recovered in 2014. This happened partially because countries like China slowed down a little, supply chains changed, etc. The US dropped a shit-ton of oil onto the market and then the Saudis waged a year long economic war against Texas farmers. New mines opened up in Africa. Two of Brazil's biggest exports are oil and iron, so guess what happened when more product entered the market.

PT didn't want to cut social services. That's one issue. But deep austerity would make the problem worse. Brazil needs a combination of a contractionary money policy to curb inflation and an intact safety net to keep people from being hopelessly destitute enough to resort to crime. Brazil kept an expansionary policy in the hopes that cheap credit would fix the economy, and people would reinvest into different markets. That didn't really work.

I got some of these details wrong inevitably but the point is that Brazi's problem is not corruption, it is not the left wing or the right wing, it's that the forces of the world are large, destructive, and capricious, and Brazil was like a fishing boat in the water while a huge whaling vessel passes by. Blaming Lula is dumb. Voting for Jair is dumb in many ways, too, although being Filipino I'm sympathetic to people who turn to someone who promises order when crime feels out of control and the government seems hopelessly corrupt. But perspective is important.

This is what happens when you Google too much.

Corruption isn't a problem? Like when you pay your government to do government things and the only return you get is.... nothing that's a problem homie. When you pay your taxes and the local municipality doesn't pay their garbage men  because the Governor embezzled millions of millions of dollars then there is garbage left on the streets. That's a problem.

Corruption is systemic here. On all levels. Foreign entities don't want to do business here because of it. People don't want to invest. The bureaucracy is out of control because of how big the government is. Like, it's an immense amount of paperwork to buy a house, and then you buy a house and realize there are problems there with the paperwork from years ago, and you can't move in, and it's in limbo for months, maybe years, and you just blew thousands of dollars, etc etc etc

Lula isn't to blame? He took welfare and spread it far and wide. Here we have a social warfare program to help the poor and it is predicated on the fact that your child HAS TO ATTEND school. This is a program put into place before Lula and it worked but when Lula came in he upped it and spread it all over the country, to a lot of undeserving people. It's requirements was loosened, and not checked upon. Now you get these people that don't send their kids to school, but to the streets to sell candy and whatever the fuck else, crime even, and yet still get government assistance. It is a huge problem.

Like, we have the highest energy bill of any modern country (I think we are third in the world amongst all people). The energy companies embezzle millions while not fixing infrastructure. The two main energy sources are government controlled.

Decades in power and the poor are still poor, uneducated, and violent. Decades in power and the infrastructure is a mess. Decades in power and stole billions upon billions upon billions of dollars from the country and you say it's not a problem? lol The country has no more faith in government, or in their own people, and are apathetic with no respect for each other.

You fucking libs are so ridiculous stupid because Putin and his cronies do the same thing. They rob the country blind but of course you're totally about shitting on that guy aren't ya? But noooooo poor Lula he was a good guy. Why because he was a let-wing idiot? So was Hugo Chaves and the current Venezuelan President that sunk what used to be one of the richest countries in Latin America.

Like, bruh, stop Googling all the time. Listen to the people that actually live somewhere.

benjipwns

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But he's right that Lula isn't entirely to blame, it isn't like Lula introduced that corruption, the PSDB, hell, the military introduced, just as much of it, the overly bureaucratic state of Brazil easily dates back to the 1940's. de Mello's presidency crashed and burned in a little over two years because of his corruption. Cardoso wasn't much more successful as debt exploded, and sorta like Nixon he started many of the programs that Lula-Dilma would expand.

Lula ran for and lost how many elections before he finally got in? Plus, as a leftist, like in the Scandinavian countries, Canada, etc. Lula had the benefit of being able to make the cuts and such necessary to slice down the debt and avoid default that right-lean parties can never do as easily, so there's that benefit. Even as I noted he expanded a good number of those pre-existing programs, he probably saved money on Bosla Familia compared to Cardoso's more haphazard implementation. I see that you disagree with it, but in many cases, the nationalization of those kinds of programs can save money and work more efficiently than having 50 of them or so. Maybe in Brazil corruption ruined that, but that doesn't mean it would have been better or even less corrupt had the money stayed in the hands of the locals.

There's far less positive to be said about Dilma, she was always a hack and cronyist of the worst from what I ever heard about her. But Lula probably was a better President than both his predecessors and successors all things considered. Lula was only in there for eight years, the "Right" had power for the 17 years before him during "Democracy" and Dilma had about six years after him. So your "decades" stuff automatically can't throw it all on Lula.

And I certainly have no reason to praise Lula*, but dude's worst "left" qualities were more for show than anything. Similar to someone like Bill Clinton, for example.

*And as I started elsewhere from what I can tell Brazilian law was followed fairly properly in not letting him run this time. PT's main problem was they based all their hopes on him running rather than finding a proper backup candidate.

Assimilate

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Of course Lula doesn't hold 100% of the responsibility and I leave out Dilma because she was always so bad it's not even worth mentioning her. And of course Lula did good, so did Hugo Chaves. I'm sure at the end of Trump we can pinpoint some things he actually did well that no one else did. But so what?

As a whole the PT party fucked this country during a time that it was supposed to become a powerhouse. It was squandered and that is where the hate and resentment comes from.

I want some of you to understand this point here because it's critical- look at Mr giant dad here

Fuck you dude, I hope you suffer for this shit

He probably believes this is how things go in this country, that middle to upper middle class educated people vote left, and they don't. Not in this country, not in recent years. Sao Paulo's technology hub, I believe the richest per capita out of any other area in Brazil, all vote right leaning. Understand? It's the complete opposite of the U.S.

Lula, the champion of the left dropped out of school in the second grade. He has no formal education. He was a union worker and he entered politics this way. The dude can barely fucking read. And he warned up to everyone from Chavez to Castro. This is what he wanted for Brazil, and if he was allowed to continue to go in that direction he would have.

benjipwns

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I'm just saying that the PT's power/corruption and the PSDB's power/corruption should probably get at least an equal accounting for that; many of the parties that have gained the last two cycles are new ones, a lot of the newly popular candidates including Bolsonaro are coming out of new areas. He's been around since the dawn of democracy but was a fringe nut who was mostly irrelevant, some of the other new leftists or moderates are similar or totally new to the game. PSDB discredited itself and then PT did except Lula.

Other than PDT, all the parties that gained +3 seats are ones that have either started out or totally re-branded themselves since Lula was on his way out after the mid-2000s. The old guard: PT, PTB, PSDB and MDB combined to lose 85 seats.

I imagine the only reason PT even made it to the run-off is because it was only a month before that Lula got knocked off. He was seemingly the only person in Brazil to have any real broad following left, until this created by 4chan and Russia Proud Boy Incel Coup Leader got his because of memes.

benjipwns

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part of 4chan's secret fascist meme election stealing work from that Buzzfeed author:

Assimilate

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part of 4chan's secret fascist meme election stealing work from that Buzzfeed author:
(Image removed from quote.)
You gotta admit this shit is fucking hilarious

I'm not going to deny there are many risks involved in electing this guy. And like people were hoping for Trump to go more to the center and curb his crazy ass rhetoric we are hopping the same happens in this situation.

Trump didn't do it. But at least from the opening speech given yesterday by Bolsonaro he seems like he will.


** just to give more clarity - there were people in the streets cheering for the fucking police. waving and handshaking and patting police on the back, and all kinds of patriotism for the POLICE. This is how much people are craving the idea of safety in this country.

found a tweet https://twitter.com/tomphillipsin/status/1056741239939387392?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1056741239939387392&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fworld%2Flive%2F2018%2Foct%2F28%2Fbrazil-election-2018-second-round-of-voting-closes-as-bolsonaro-eyes-the-presidency-live

***It's astonishing to me how the mainstream media warp the entire situation here and focus on only his divisive remarks made to stir up his base. This is all the media focuses on because it's what grabs eyeballs from dumb libs. It is mind numbingly stupid.

Every single person I know here has been assaulted at least once. Last month a friend of mine was assaulted at gun point. A few months earlier, another friend of mine assaulted at gun point. Both women because women are prayed on by criminals.

The culture here is totally different than the U.S. There is a level of shame in the states for being poor, people that beg on the street tend to do it with intense humility. Here they do not lol. A teenager will come up to you asking you for shit and if you don't give it to him he turns around with attitude. I've seen some little fucker spit on a guy because he didn't buy the candy he was selling.

This place is fucking backwards. It needs to get put back on track by an iron fist. The left did not work here.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 05:13:30 AM by Assimilate »

benjipwns

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I mentioned this in the garbage thread related to ERA's handwringing over this, that unlike Trump who has had single party majorities, this is the Congress Bolsonaro is going to get to work with, with many of the parties against or at least not for him:



When Dilma was sworn back in after 2014, her coalition had 60% of the seats. Less than two years later the same Congress had reorganized the coalitions enough that they impeached and convicted her! Even if the Democrats gain the House and tie up the Senate in a couple weeks they wouldn't be able to do that to Trump.

Bolsonaro might even enter office with a majority in Congress openly against him.

It's sorta like how Trump hasn't really gotten anything on the Wall, Congress may not be interested in the same priorities. There's probably more support for stuff like taxes and so on, same as Trump had to switch focus to.

Assimilate

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And that's worrisome because I can see him doing something crazy if they completely oppose him.

On another note my god does being a conservative pay off or what?

Bolsonaros wife is 38. He's 63  :lol

I'm all in on this conservative Christian shit here in this country. Maybe I start going to church  :doge


Nabbis

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But are there any truck drivers arrested? :idont

Assimilate

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woops

https://twitter.com/castriotar/status/1055836519318122496

whoooops too bad this isn't real . You are not allowed to protest on certain parts of public facilities no matter what you are saying during election time. This has been the law. Whoops

 :gamergate


Rufus

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"See no evil, hear no evil" huh? :heh

Tiops

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I posted on Era that I voted for Bolsonaro. Goodbye, account.

Also, you can have that kind of political materials on universities on election weekends because those unviversities are also voting stations, and they're also public facilities, so...

Rufus

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You can't, you mean?

Assimilate

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You can't, you mean?
Correct, you can not.

Rufus

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What about disrupting classes and confiscating material on the history of fascism?

Assimilate

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What about disrupting classes and confiscating material on the history of fascism?
There's no indication this actually happened for any other reason than people doing something they should not be doing during election time.

Stop reaching for shit dude. It's so fucking annoying when the libs lose a democratic election that is voted on by the people all of a sudden democracy is doomed. 

The best are these tweets from people that don't live here like "Brazil stay safe" or "stay strong" or "it's over for Brazil"  lol fucking stop. This place has been a lawless mess for years. Fucking idiots, why do you think people are in the streets cheering on police officers? because they thrive dictatorship or some shit? Like USE YOUR FUCKING MIND

 :snoop

shosta

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Rufus annihilated. Maybe next time that'll teach you Deutsche to not lecture people on what is or isn't an authoritarian slide.
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Rufus

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What about disrupting classes and confiscating material on the history of fascism?
There's no indication this actually happened for any other reason than people doing something they should not be doing during election time.
Banners above voting sites I can kind of see, but what about the classes?

Assimilate

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What about disrupting classes and confiscating material on the history of fascism?
There's no indication this actually happened for any other reason than people doing something they should not be doing during election time.
Banners above voting sites I can kind of see, but what about the classes?

There hasn't been any reports of widespread abuse of this nature, whatever was removed was being removed because it was against the law during election time.

stop it for fuck sakes. until there is military marching on the streets arresting people for innocent protest move on bro. seriously, move the fuck on. find something else to hot take about.


you people need to get off social media.

 :picard

Rufus

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It being widespread was never the point, friendo. I ask again, is disrupting classes and confiscating material on the history of fascism (presuambly handed out during those classes), just honky dory?

Quote
stop it for fuck sakes. until there is military marching on the streets arresting people for innocent protest move on bro. seriously, move the fuck on. find something else to hot take about.
"Shut up until it's too late." :rofl

Assimilate

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It being widespread was never the point, friendo. I ask again, is disrupting classes and confiscating material on the history of fascism (presuambly handed out during those classes), just honky dory?

Quote
stop it for fuck sakes. until there is military marching on the streets arresting people for innocent protest move on bro. seriously, move the fuck on. find something else to hot take about.
"Shut up until it's too late." :rofl
  ::)

don't you feel dumb being manipulated like this?

Rufus

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You're one to talk, seeing as how you were literally spooked into your political views.

Tiops

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Well, I hope that wasn't actually the case, that military entered classes to confiscate materials. The report from Folha (which was clearly against Bolsonaro during the elections) only contains evidence of banners and shit being removed from public facilities, and that's absolutely prohibited by law. The only case of actual interference in the classroom was caused by the daughter of a policeman that called him because she said that the teacher was advocating for a candidate. Of course it's terrible, but it's a very specific situation.

The shitstorm here would be way bigger if this was exactly what happened. This happened while Bolsonaro was not elected yet, so even if you believe that he'll be a fascist ruler, he still doesn't have that power. Supreme Court would interefere, at least, and the opposing parties would be raising hell.

As you can see, it was the Electoral Justice with the police, not the army.


EDIT: And I'm permabanned from Era lol

Assimilate

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EDIT: And I'm permabanned from Era lol

You knew that was going to happen.

Rufus

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This happened while Bolsonaro was not elected yet, so even if you believe that he'll be a fascist ruler, he still doesn't have that power. Supreme Court would interefere, at least, and the opposing parties would be raising hell.

As you can see, it was the Electoral Justice with the police, not the army.
Yeah, the "military police" threw me at first, too, but Wikipedia cleared that up. I also realize this happened before he was elected. (There are only a couple of Twitter accounts a check once a week or so, so I'm never really current on anything there.)

This kind of thing is worrying to me, even if it is just an isolated incident.

Tiops

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EDIT: And I'm permabanned from Era lol

You knew that was going to happen.

I sure do. I actually posted there because I saw another user being banned just by saying that he voted for Bolsonaro, so I think there's no point to keep posting there. I'm not going to keep holding myself and hiding shit that I do just to not get banned there.

Yeah, the "military police" threw me at first, too, but Wikipedia cleared that up. I also realize this happened before he was elected. (There are only a couple of Twitter accounts a check once a week or so, so I'm never really current on anything there.)

This kind of thing is worrying to me, even if it is just an isolated incident.

I agree that it's a bit worrying. I voted for him a bit worried about how the next years are going to be, but I'm absolutely sure that our economy would not stand 8 more years of PT, and any chance of future corruption charges would disappear. But I'm aware of the risks, and hoping for the best.

As I described to a friend of mine, I decided between a "game" of russian roulette or just shooting myself in the face.

Rufus

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As I described to a friend of mine, I decided between a "game" of russian roulette or just shooting myself in the face.
:-\

Assimilate

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This kind of thing is worrying to me, even if it is just an isolated incident.
It's not worrying to you that people die here in droves for simply having a cell phone? lol

It's not worrying to you that hard working middle class Brazilians are afraid to go out at night?

I'm confused. Honestly. You go into that distinguished mentally-challenged resetera thread and you see a bunch of moronic kids talking about how all of a sudden Brasil is doomed, it's been doomed. It's hellishly dangerous here and has been for a long time. It's seriously insane to me how easily people can be manipulated by tweets and hot take media. It astonishes me.

Those on the left think they are well informed educated people but they aren't. They are just as easily manipulated as a trailer park make America great again hat wearing lunatic. There really is no difference between the two.

To get the left bent out of shape all you have to do is talk about 'minorities'. Yet, you are more likely going to be assaulted for your phone than anything 'minority' related. But no one on the left cares? Lol wtf. And women are currently targeted more than anyone else because they're easy targets, not because they have boobs.

It's sooooooooo stupid.

Rufus

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I don't trust right-wing authoritarians to actually want to tackle the underlying problems of those issues. Going by Bolsonaro's words, I expect more retribution against political enemies than solutions. Call me crazy. /shrug

Assimilate

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I don't trust right-wing authoritarians to actually want to tackle the underlying problems of those issues. Going by Bolsonaro's words, I expect more retribution against political enemies than solutions. Call me crazy. /shrug
He comes with risks. We all know that dude.

But like Tiops said it was a choice between Russian roulette or being shot in the face.

Just to give you an idea: When it looked like PT was goin to win, 1 U.S dollar shot up to 4.23 Brazilian reis. Now it's currently at 3.69. It has dropped, and will probably continue to level out. If Haddad had one, the dollar could have easily been in the 5s which could have easily thrown this place into chaos.

No one trusted that party, domestically or internationally. The markets would have imploded.

Tiops

  • Member
I don't trust right-wing authoritarians to actually want to tackle the underlying problems of those issues. Going by Bolsonaro's words, I expect more retribution against political enemies than solutions. Call me crazy. /shrug

I don't trust too, but Bolsonaro has no choice but to do a great government, or else PT is coming back in full force in 2022. Unless we enter a dictatorship state, but honestly if this is a risk, it would be also a risk with PT winning. I mean, the moment they tried to release Lula from prison (and they officially declared multiple times that they would do it), there would be chaos here.

shosta

  • Y = λ𝑓. (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥)) (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥))
  • Senior Member
I'm caught up now and the worst things Assimilate has said are 1) compulsory education is a bad idea and 2) he's stoked for the country to move back to conservative Christian values because it'll be easier for him to get women.

pretty bad hombre imo
每天生气

agrajag

  • Senior Member
It just didn't happen alright, stop reaching for shit bro ok?

curly

  • cultural maoist
  • Senior Member
https://twitter.com/Estadao/status/1056860697160609792

"Bolsonaro wins in 97% of the richest cities and Haddad in 98% of the poor"

agrajag

  • Senior Member
But economic anxiety