It has been 4... 0 days since the last mass shooting official shooting thread

[Boredfrom]

yeah, it would be something if the right wingers topple the corporate hegemony over racial sensitivity training instead of oppression of the working class...

Thats not what I'm getting at....My point is that the American MAGA - right dislikes the liberal multikulti hegemony coming from the Nikes of the world, and as the contradictions of the economy fuel more extreme ideology on both sides of the spectrum, corporations will drop those externally socially liberal views to back who upholds capital; the fascists.

And I suppose those fascists are the bourgeois?

[Himu]

(Image removed from quote.)

NRA lost like three board members mere days before this. NRA is dying.

https://thehill.com/regulation/lobbying/455862-three-nra-board-members-resign-from-organization

No one is coming to defend the NRA. Lol NRA invests mere peanuts in the political system compared to big pharma, media, fast food companies, and anti-gun groups like Everytown and now they (NRA) are dying. Lol check the deets yourself. Anti-gun groups far outspend NRA. This characterization of NRA is hilarious and in no way reality.

This recent election was the first time anti-gun groups raised more/spent more than the NRA.

https://philanthropynewsdigest.org/news/bloomberg-to-launch-50-million-gun-control-initiative

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/nra-donations/?utm_term=.60b4c9aa378e

While certainly extremist, and a taker of Russian money, NRA are mostly a boogeyman used by the American left. Their money isn’t what makes them powerful.

[Rufus]

Point taken, anyway. Still feel is just justification, specially since the guy admitted he didn’t think that deep about it.

You don't have to a have a certificate that proves you understand the full implications of your ideology to be a follower. (It helps if you don't, particularly for foot soldiers. )

[Madrun Badrun]

...

So I agree with all that: it is shameful that these groups are not being targetted and outed.  My point is that treating nazis as separate from white supremacy groups does not help in targetting these groups.  What does it matter if they have sperate thinktanks? It's not like these same people would be in either group if the other were not an option.  It's not like these people would not be radicalized if they just didn't hear a Hitler quote or like the SS uniforms. The causes of the two groups is the exact same thing.  I feel like you are saying not differentiating doesn't help in bringing back white supremacists to a non-radical ideology; which I agree with.  If I say to a white nationalist you're are a nazi, I'm not going to change their mind about anything and they will just think I don't know what a nazi is because that is those other guys in that other discord channel.  I don't care about people who are already lost - or I should say I don't think that what we call them has anything to do with helping them or entrenching them further. 

My point is that by differentiating them  we tend to put a hierarchy of badness where we say Nazis are terrible, they want to take down the government and install a dictator and kill all non-whites while white supremacists, really they just want to go back to the good old 1950's where you could lynch a boy for getting out of line (and ignore that really they want to take down the government and install a dictator and kill all non-whites as well).   In my view, they are more easily allowed to infiltrate institutions by looking like the latter which we fined more acceptable because of its less alien to US culture. But at the end of the day, they amount to the same thing.  It also should stop people accepting moderate white nationalist views if they understand the consequence of that is what we saw in 30's Germany.  So sure not differentiating them might not change any of these peoples minds but it might make it look like a less acceptable thing to get into in the first place.   Prevention rather than treatment. 

Also, I completely disagree that it is mine and other peoples generalization which is what lets these groups thrive.   You are right that they are slimy and will try to pin you down on definitions and they do use confusion but that's only because we play into their hands by saying a nazi has to quote Hitler etc. and not saying a Nazi is someone who wants to create a white ethnic state through violence and ultra-nationalism.  And - and this is an important point to my perspective - they would do this anyway; it doesn't matter what we call them they are slime and will try to hide in misinformation and confusion.     However, the more people who will say a white nationalist is a nazi, the less wiggle room they will have and the more it represents their ideology in terms of practical outcomes instead of just more jobs for white people. 

[Boredfrom]

Point taken, anyway. Still feel is just justification, specially since the guy admitted he didn’t think that deep about it.

You don't have to a have a certificate that proves you understand the full implications of your ideology to be a follower. (It helps if you don't, particularly for foot soldiers. )

But is also easier to dismiss the label as is getting muddled in any case. So I can totally namedrop the Lorax in my manifiesto, support Trump and hate corporations because any label is meaningless and fake news.

So sure not differentiating them might not change any of these peoples minds but it might make it look like a less acceptable thing to get into in the first place.   Prevention rather than treatment. 

 

I’m pretty sure they know is not socially acceptable in most places.

Also, I completely disagree that it is mine and other peoples generalization which is what lets these groups thrive.   You are right that they are slimy and will try to pin you down on definitions and they do use confusion but that's only because we play into their hands by saying a nazi has to quote Hitler etc. and not saying a Nazi is someone who wants to create a white ethnic state through violence and ultra-nationalism.  And - and this is an important point to my perspective - they would do this anyway; it doesn't matter what we call them they are slime and will try to hide in misinformation and confusion.     However, the more people who will say a white nationalist is a nazi, the less wiggle room they will have and the more it represents their ideology in terms of practical outcomes instead of just more jobs for white people.

But you are the one that that is dismissing the actual definitions because something you just admired said in the heat of a moment. You are the one creating the wiggle room because you think calling them Nazis give them more weight when it feels more like a lazy label that takes out the weight.

[Himu]

For the record, federal agencies have looked them. White domestic terrorism is considered the greatest threat to America’s safety.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/domestic-terror-still-greater-threat-than-islamic-extremism.html

They’re also looking at “black racial extremists”.

[OnlyRegret]

Ronald Reagan really fucked this country even more than Nixon.


All three of the underlying problems for most of these mass shootings (gutting of mental health in 1981, gutting of gun control in 1986, providing a blueprint for celebrity candidate to run on coded language or outright racism (Reagan was against the Civil and Voting Rights Acts and ran ads calling black areas "jungles", as well quotes like this : “If an individual wants to discriminate against Negroes or others in selling or renting his house, it is his right to do so.” and supported apartheid governments )) wrap back around to that piece of shit Ronald Reagan.

Isn't he also associated with the absolute meme that is trickle-down?
As well as massive tax cutting

[Madrun Badrun]

For the record, federal agencies have looked them. White domestic terrorism is considered the greatest threat to America’s safety.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/domestic-terror-still-greater-threat-than-islamic-extremism.html

They’re also looking at “black racial extremists”.

When have they not been looking at black racial extremists. 

The issue is that the feds can make remarks like that but unless there is the political and social will to act on it then it is for nothing.   The first time the feds come after these groups and it turns into Waco or Ruby Ridge the right will scream that it's just about taking their guns and any progress will stop. 

[Rufus]

But is also easier to dismiss the label as is getting muddled in any case. So I can totally namedrop the Lorax in my manifiesto, support Trump and hate corporations because any label is meaningless and fake news.

Swatting away the boo-boo word by dressing their intentions up as jokes only allows them to hide, at least to casual observers. This guy may have not done it deliberately, I don't know, but it's a common tactic. In my view, you deal with this by just cutting the gordian knot.

It's how the OK-sign became both a joke and a legit signal. You rally around the joke to find like-minded people.

[Boredfrom]

yeah, it would be something if the right wingers topple the corporate hegemony over racial sensitivity training instead of oppression of the working class...

Thats not what I'm getting at....My point is that the American MAGA - right dislikes the liberal multikulti hegemony coming from the Nikes of the world, and as the contradictions of the economy fuel more extreme ideology on both sides of the spectrum, corporations will drop those externally socially liberal views to back who upholds capital; the fascists.

And I suppose those fascists are the bourgeois?

Answering this question fully would require me to do a comparison with Hitler or Mussolini's backing from business elites at home and abroad, afraid of socialist revolutions in their home countries but you seem opposed to drawing those parallels. We could take a look at the gas in Bolsonaro's tank and his opposition and what they've done in opposition to gains made by the Workers Party, or point out Trump's position as a member of the owner class. It's a more complex situation now with the development of global-imperial worker and ownership structure. Fascism gets broad class support in the countries it affects - whether it's in the material interests of the people whom it affects or not. But it certainly serves the interests of capital.

Is not that I don’t think is not fascinating this line of thinking, but that I heard it all the time and feels like ends more like justification of a lot of behavior that doesn’t necessarily help a lot of people. I was partially sincere asking you about it because you and shota seem to genuinely know about what are you talking about.

Sorry if I sounded rude.

[Himu]

For the record, federal agencies have looked them. White domestic terrorism is considered the greatest threat to America’s safety.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/domestic-terror-still-greater-threat-than-islamic-extremism.html

They’re also looking at “black racial extremists”.

When have they not been looking at black racial extremists. 

The issue is that the feds can make remarks like that but unless there is the political and social will to act on it then it is for nothing.   The first time the feds come after these groups and it turns into Waco or Ruby Ridge the right will scream that it's just about taking their guns and any progress will stop.

I agree entirely.

[Boredfrom]

But is also easier to dismiss the label as is getting muddled in any case. So I can totally namedrop the Lorax in my manifiesto, support Trump and hate corporations because any label is meaningless and fake news.

Swatting away the boo-boo word by dressing their intentions up as jokes only allows them to hide, at least to casual observers. This guy may have not done it deliberately, I don't know, but it's a common tactic. In my view, you deal with this by just cutting the gordian knot.

It's how the OK-sign became both a joke and a legit signal. You rally around the joke to find like-minded people.

Yeah, but people are not exactly buying it in this case. At least it feel everyone agrees he is a racist motherfucker and we finally discussing the possibility of naming this as terrorism. If is a tactic, is kind of silly and stupid one to do given that common people would start catch on it.

I sure as fuck I buy the okay sign being used as a racist sign when is pretty clear the context is malicious or intentional. But this guys count in people getting angry about it when is not actually intended rather than when is.

[Rufus]

I sure as fuck I buy the okay sign being used as a racist sign when is pretty clear the context is malicious or intentional. But this guys count in people getting angry about it when is not actually intended rather than when is.

Absolutely. You have to weigh these things carefully. However, just ignoring it alltogether is not the solution. Looking like a fool every once in a while is an acceptable loss.

[Madrun Badrun]

But you are the one that that is dismissing the actual definitions because something you just admired said in the heat of a moment. You are the one creating the wiggle room because you think calling them Nazis give them more weight when it feels more like a lazy label that takes out the weight.

This is the second time you have said I used the word without thinking and this is the second time I will tell you are wrong.  I believe that white nationalism is American nazism.  Definitions are useful for some things but political definitions are more lists of criterion that are not all necessary or sufficient to describe something in most cases.  I say that white nationalism is nazism because most of the criteria fits.   Also, people who don't want to argue honestly will just redefine their definitions at will based on silly criteria.  For example by saying that there are no modern nazi's because that was a political movement in the 30's and 40's Germany and nothing more. 

[Himu]

The ok sign thing is a part of their operations. They can’t outright say,”this is a sign of white supremacy” so they hide behind something ordinary like an ok sign. They also did so just when that game was really taking off as a meme on social media. So they take something people known of and use it as a signal, and if you get it you’re one of them. But it’s so ordinary that you look crazy when you say,”this is a sign used by fascists” and they can wave it off by saying,”it’s just an okay sign!”

This is the danger with a lot of these modern white supremacy movements: they’re able to spread via wit and hide in plain sight because they know their views do not have social capital.

It’s also why the El Paso shooter used both left and right ideology in his manifesto. It’s to mask his true meaning to the partisans while actual white supremacists get the message.

[Boredfrom]

I sure as fuck I buy the okay sign being used as a racist sign when is pretty clear the context is malicious or intentional. But this guys count in people getting angry about it when is not actually intended rather than when is.

Absolutely. You have to weigh these things carefully. However, just ignoring it alltogether is not the solution. Looking like a fool every once in a while is an acceptable loss.

Here is the problem: there is a lot of fools out there and making fools of themselves not exactly once in a while. And worse, a lot of these fools don’t like to learn about it.

[Boredfrom]

The ok sign thing is a part of their operations. They can’t outright say,”this is a sign of white supremacy” so they hide behind something ordinary like an ok sign. They also did so just when that game was really taking off as a meme on social media. So they take something people known of and use it as a signal, and if you get it you’re one of them. But it’s so ordinary that you look crazy when you say,”this is a sign used by fascists” and they can wave it off by saying,”it’s just an okay sign!”

This is the danger with a lot of these modern white supremacy movements: they’re able to spread via wit and hide in plain sight because they know their views do not have social capital.

It’s also why the El Paso shooter used both left and right ideology in his manifesto. It’s to mask his true meaning to the partisans while actual white supremacists get the message.

But common people will catch on, and the problem with people catching on is that they will try to implement the easiest solution and blaming a escape goat. I think 8chan deserves to being called out because the community seems more genuinely not mind the enabling of this shit, but we see people immediately trying to find easy targets for their own interests. It feels like a vicious circle of perpetual misinformation and evasion.

[Rufus]

Here is the problem: there is a lot of fools out there and making fools of themselves not exactly once in a while. And worse, a lot of these fools don’t like to learn about it.

I don't know enough normies to have a sense of how much of a concern this actually is. They're certainly useful as a totem for the other side of the trench, that's true.

[Nintex]

The way I see it, you need to fix the following
- The 24/7 news cycle which basically turns any minor issue or incident into the next apocalypse (All US news outlets are laughable in this regard)
- The gun laws, which literally allow anyone to buy a gun without checks
- The immigration policy itself (this is about trust in government more than anything, if the population feels like things are under control they are less likely to try and find solutions on their own.
Again both parties actively create the image that the system is completely broken (border patrol = concentration camps! vs. immigration = invasion!))

A lot of people still seem to underestimate the effect of 9/11, the war on terror and the following economic crisis. I don't think it is a surprise that pretty much all shootings are carried out by males age 20 - 30.
Who when coming of age woke up each day with the "TERROR ALERT" and lost all trust and confidence in their government. These people exist and dwell beyond the set political boundaries of left/right which they gave up on a long time ago.

It is not just the 20 mass shootings but also stuff like self immolation on the White House lawn and the dramatic rise in suicides which all seem to have the same root causes.
An ever growing part of the population is acting and behaving like a doomsday cult.

[OnlyRegret]

Yeah, the environmental activism leaning doomsday is somewhat looking to be linked to an ecoterrorism movement. Some people want to protest the government into environmental reforms others want to shoot their way to a green future 

Guns function as a sort of safety blanket. The scarier the world looks the harder the blanket is clutched.

[Madrun Badrun]

The thing about ecoterrorism is that its pretty easy to do without harming anyone or at least minimizing life lost.  So assuming that there are effective forms of terrorism, this is probably the least useful way of achieving those goals and will probably just lead to a lot of fed resources being wasted watching people who just want to mess with whaling boats or break forestry equipment. 

[Himu]

The way I see it, you need to fix the following
- The 24/7 news cycle which basically turns any minor issue or incident into the next apocalypse (All US news outlets are laughable in this regard)
- The gun laws, which literally allow anyone to buy a gun without checks
- The immigration policy itself (this is about trust in government more than anything, if the population feels like things are under control they are less likely to try and find solutions on their own.
Again both parties actively create the image that the system is completely broken (border patrol = concentration camps! vs. immigration = invasion!))

A lot of people still seem to underestimate the effect of 9/11, the war on terror and the following economic crisis. I don't think it is a surprise that pretty much all shootings are carried out by males age 20 - 30.
Who when coming of age woke up each day with the "TERROR ALERT" and lost all trust and confidence in their government. These people exist and dwell beyond the set political boundaries of left/right which they gave up on a long time ago.

It is not just the 250 mass shootings but also stuff like self immolation on the White House lawn and the dramatic rise in suicides which all seem to have the same root causes.
An ever growing part of the population is acting and behaving like a doomsday cult.

You're spouting the 250 mass shootings number while also saying a big problem is the 24/7 news cycle when that 250 mass shootings number is one purported by mass media agencies. It's a false number. 250 mass shootings is over 1 per day.

A more accurate number as per AP.

https://www.apnews.com/084d5015fc544b359721e651c9e4d322

Then they keep running with that number. Just like how politicians can spout "30,000 American deaths to gun violence" when 2/3rds of those are suicides and not homicides. Tragic, but definitely not gun violence. Then news people let the politician get away with using false numbers for their advantage to sell a narrative.

And then people wonder why people don't trust the media.

250? You fell for "basically turns any issue or incident [becoming] the next apocalypse " in your own post.

And what happens when people don't trust the media? They go look for alternatives. You can look up the 250 or 30,000 gun deaths stat very easily via the internet. Shit, I looked up FBI death stats myself just by googling, and compared them with ones on news reports just a few years ago. And once that trust is lost you get people watching stupid Youtube recs and Fox News and the circle is complete.

Your post, although not on purpose, very adeptly shows how people are radicalized.

[Madrun Badrun]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-shooting-migrants-video-rally-el-paso-a9038961.html?utm_source=reddit.com

[Nintex]

It depends on your definition of mass shootings I suppose but the 250 number comes from here:
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

These shootings weren't all deadly(so there might be a discrepancy there) but they are real incidents.

The guns are used as the tool to enact change because they are the most powerful and practical tools the shooters have available.
When there are no guns available they will just try and use something else like cars or trucks so just banning guns won't solve the issue.

The killer made that clear in his manifesto too, the attack was poorly prepared but the weapon he had was most suitable for the 'wake up call' he had in mind.
That however, still does not mean you should not get these guns out of the hands of people who clearly shouldn't have them so background checks are nothing but common sense
and there is no reason for anyone to walk around with an AK47 and a drum magazine.

Anyhow, this ideology is not clearly defined like ideologies of the past like Nazism, Marxism or Islam. It is closest to the stuff you find in a game like Deus Ex or any other fiction about the end or control of society.
Similar to that sort of fiction it is just a zeitgeist accumulation of news media, pop-culture topics and current world affairs that formed an ideology in their minds but doesn't really exist.
However, on a daily basis they get fed enough images and commentary that allows for their confirmation bias to kick in and accept their own mental creation.
This cynical doomsday view of the world is pretty much real to them. Look no further than say a place like NeoGAF or ResetEra where some posters already show the same signs.

[Himu]

It depends on your definition of mass shootings I suppose but the 250 number comes from here:
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

Yes, it depends on the definition, and when you have a very loose definition you can spread misinformation to sell fear. It's agenda ridden.

It's why many black people fall to conspiracy theorism. Why trust patented, official sources when those same official sources said only a decade ago "black man loots, white man finds food"?

As trust in the media drops you will only have more radicals because they're going to alternative new sources because they don't believe anything else.

[Himu]

Imagine thinking someone shooting themselves in the head isn’t gun violence.

(those stats should be mentioned as suicide, but you could also point out studies that show access to a gun increases someone’s chance of actually killing themselves, it’s not exactly a pro-gun rights stat for anyone not a psychopath)

It is? Japan is has one of the lowest crime rates in the developed world and yet one of the highest suicide rates. Would you label Japan a "violent" nation? No. Why would you lump 20,000 suicides with gun violence. To flex your narrative when you don't have an argument, only fear.

[Boredfrom]

The thing about ecoterrorism is that its pretty easy to do without harming anyone or at least minimizing life lost. 

Wait, what?

[Himu]

Just last year. Parkland happened and the news media went sucking its own cock talking about "THERE HAVE BEEN 18 MASS SHOOTINGS IN JUST THE PAST MONTH ALONE (Parkland happened in February)"

Then a bunch of libs with an agenda spread it on facebook without fact checking.

And oops, WaPo came out with

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/no-there-havent-been-18-school-shooting-in-2018-that-number-is-flat-wrong/2018/02/15/65b6cf72-1264-11e8-8ea1-c1d91fcec3fe_story.html

Bam.

The press allowed a false number to run rampant just because they like the story.

They have an agenda to sell. And people see shit like this, why trust them? Then two months later they're watching Hannity and the press is wondering, dumb-founded,"why don't people trust us?!" Then a few months later you get some whacko who tries to kill people in a restaurant because he heard they're sacrificing babies on Fox News.

And here you are peddling a similarly bullshit stat while talking about the 24/7 media cycle like a spider meeting its prey.

[Madrun Badrun]

I could be wrong here but isn't part of this issue that there are is very minimal federal statistics tracking gun crimes for reasons like the CDCs ban on gun prevention research etc. and because of this every news outlet/ state seems to use their own statistical definitions which get accumulated in weird ways.   

[Himu]

Riotous, nuance matters. The stuff I'm talking about is how Republicans are made every day. If you want to fight Republicans you have to stop lying between your teeth.

Stuff like this is also why people like Dank Dad have gained a platform. Because the news media - which people already don't trust - tried to kill the guy, they latched on to him as a public hero. He was relatively unknown but had a cult before the infamous UK interview. After which, when they unsuccessfully tried to catch him or trip him up, his popularity sky rocketed and he gained a sizable following. The video in question has now been viewed 17 million times.

Ergo, the news is directly responsible with the increasingly extreme right wing. They're pushing them one way and toward another, much worse, alternative.

GG using the 250 stat I guess. I'm sure it won't come back to bite you in the ass.

[Nintex]

It's not like 'well by my definition there were only 20 mass shooting this year' makes the situation any better. That's still 20 that should/could be prevented.
Switched the number to 20 so we can move from that I suppose.

It is not normal to have so many shootings period, especially not in places like shopping malls, schools, clubs and the likes.

[Himu]

It's not like 'well by my definition there were only 20 mass shooting this year' makes the situation any better. That's still 20 that should/could be prevented.

It is not normal to have so many shootings period, especially not in places like shopping malls, schools, clubs and the likes.

20 vs 250.

"It's not like 'well by my definition there were only 20 mass shooting this year' makes the situation any better."

That's a massive difference, large enough for people to discount trust in official opinions entirely.

"If they're lying about that what else are they lying about?" and down the rabbithole we go.

And on this day, a new Republican was made.



Whether it's a logical or emotional reaction doesn't matter. That's how it happens.

[agrajag]

you know, it just occured to me Cindi, you can still buy a gun without having to constantly downplay gun violence statistics. I understand you want to be strapped for your own safety, but having to constantly justify it to the people here is what I don't get

[Madrun Badrun]

20 is still multitudes higher than literally every other country in the world though?

Yes but that's not cindy's point.  Its too easy to lie with statistics and if you do it enough people become desensitized to the issue.  So we all think just one mass school shooting is too many but they have now become the norm so the question becomes are they increasing or decreasing, and now we can't have a conversation because we don't trust the stats to base the argument on.  And stats are important for questions like do less guns lead to less suicides because the answer is incredibly complex and you can get wildly different answers depending on how you count things. 

[OnlyRegret]

To be fair, the US is a considerably large country. Whether it has a higher rate than the EU or South America or whatever comparison group/state you pick, I'm not sure. It seems like it does but that's just going off feel. We're a bit biased in favour of keeping tabs on everything that goes on in the US whereas other places there can be a marked decrease in care.

[Nintex]

It's not like 'well by my definition there were only 20 mass shooting this year' makes the situation any better. That's still 20 that should/could be prevented.

It is not normal to have so many shootings period, especially not in places like shopping malls, schools, clubs and the likes.

20 vs 250.

"It's not like 'well by my definition there were only 20 mass shooting this year' makes the situation any better."

That's a massive difference, large enough for people to discount trust in official opinions entirely.

"If they're lying about that what else are they lying about?" and down the rabbithole we go.

And on this day, a new Republican was made.

(Image removed from quote.)

Whether it's a logical or emotional reaction doesn't matter. That's how it happens.

The methodology for the 250 is clearly explained:

Why are GVA Mass Shooting numbers higher than some other sources?

GVA uses a purely statistical threshold to define mass shooting based ONLY on the numeric value of 4 or more shot or killed, not including the shooter. GVA does not parse the definition to remove any subcategory of shooting. To that end we don’t exclude, set apart, caveat, or differentiate victims based upon the circumstances in which they were shot.
GVA believes that equal importance is given to the counting of those injured as well as killed in a mass shooting incident.

The FBI does not define Mass Shooting in any form. They do define Mass Killing but that includes all forms of weapon, not just guns.

In that, the criteria are simple…if four or more people are shot or killed in a single incident, not involving the shooter, that incident is categorized as a mass shooting based purely on that numerical threshold.

And by that methodology it checks out so it is not a lie. All incidents listed are sourced and have 4 or more people shot (injured and or killed). So there's at least 250 incidents with fire arms that involve at least 4 victims.
Which is a fuck ton of incidents with guns. Now you can of course remove gang violence, non-lethal incidents, family feuds and the likes and not count them and end up at 20. But that doesn't change the fact that all those incidents happened.

And indeed 20 'big shootings(?)' is still a large number way beyond any other country.
Banning military grade hardware and background checks might not end all violence but if you can severely decrease the number of shooting incidents you're already heading in the right direction.

And what do you possibly have to lose? Are you afraid that it might actually work and less people get shot? It seems like something worth trying.

[agrajag]

https://twitter.com/lookner/status/1158102490728009729

woah if true

[Madrun Badrun]

Please point out that you need to have at least a masters to be able to relate to the Unibomber Teddy;  he is the academic's terrorist.   

[TVC15]

I have everything Ted’s written (that’s been published in a book)

[Madrun Badrun]

I'm going to exit the group before I get put on a watch list.

Wait you didn't exit once you found out 1) you weren't going to get the leaks and 2) it was run by a white nationalist?

[team filler]

My last question is if he posts on neogaf

ask him to unban me!

[OnlyRegret]

and here we go with the manifesto rifling and my side v other side game

https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1158165012864573440

[Himu]

you know, it just occured to me Cindi, you can still buy a gun without having to constantly downplay gun violence statistics. I understand you want to be strapped for your own safety, but having to constantly justify it to the people here is what I don't get

Mostly because unlike you think, I deeply care about fixing this issue and think using false stats that stretch truth is a bad way to go about it which further division and deep trust issues into the fabric in our society. Also earlier we were talking about white nationalists, and while not entirely the same, this is one major manner in which hard right wingers are made. It's an example of how someone can go down the rabbit hole with a little push called disbelief of the mainstream media. It's very hard to get out, so it's very topical to this subject. Basically Democrats and the new using false numbers in gun violence help poison the well regarding the issue, which helps nothing ever changing. You can say,"suicide is still violence" but let's be honest, Democrats are saying,"30,000 people day a year to gun violence and people need to feel safe." They're conflating suicide with homicide, and no matter where you are on that issue, you can't - with any intellectual honesty - come to the conclusion that they're the same. Stuff like this pushes people hand over fist right into Republican arms.

Nothing will change my position on guns however I'm trying to help assist you guys in ways that you may be - albeit, accidentally - disenfranchising others. Because shit like 250 is all over the internet and people who aren't as tied to the democratic platform are watching.

[Himu]

and here we go with the manifesto rifling and my side v other side game

https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1158165012864573440

Told ya. No one is talking about the white nationalism like I said, they're focusing on "this person was a leftist" "this person was a Trumpist" because of crumbs left. So now the seeds are further sewn to reap even more division. Meanwhile his real intent has been masked.

Chaos, you hath been lit.

[OnlyRegret]

Which is definitely how I feel but this stuff is a literal game to people.
"Shooter wasn't my side, point for me."

It almost seems like the crux of the matter for some people is that people they don't agree with are doing the shooting.

[Boredfrom]

HOLY SHIT. EVERYONE SIDE IS A SCUMBAG.  WHY THE FUCK YOU NEED TO KILL PEOPLE JUST TO MAKE A SHITTY POLITICAL POINT.

[EightBitNate]

I think the problem is white people

[CatsCatsCats]

Oh wow, I always wondered how many mass shootings we’d need before some kind of international pressure

[Boredfrom]

Mexico vows to take legal action against U.S. after deadly El Paso shooting

Is kind of cynical political posturing (they have no chance of extradition and Obrador wants not to be seeing a Trump lapdog) but I don’t feel this is a wrong move and works symbolically.

Oh wow, I always wondered how many mass shootings we’d need before some kind of international pressure

Well, the scumbag probably choose El Paso because a lot of Mexicans go there to shop. (My mother is there in a shopping trip, that’s why I’m kind of extra pissed about all this).

[Boredfrom]

I believe there were a few Mexican nationals that were killed in the event

You are correct. Six.

They know that is not going to do shit (Obrador has ‘sued’ Trump before https://www.proceso.com.mx/475170/confirma-amlo-en-chicago-demandara-a-trump-ante-onu-la-cidh-video/amp )

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Obrador is a scumbag, but I don’t see this as a wrong move by default.

[close]

[Madrun Badrun]

wrong thread

[Rufus]

HOLY SHIT. EVERYONE SIDE IS A SCUMBAG.  WHY THE FUCK YOU NEED TO KILL PEOPLE JUST TO MAKE A SHITTY POLITICAL POINT.

Because sometimes, the powers that be will look to appease in response. Not to the direct demands, but as a vague grievances attributed to the public. "Not like this, obviously, but clearly we should do something about immigration."

[Boredfrom]

HOLY SHIT. EVERYONE SIDE IS A SCUMBAG.  WHY THE FUCK YOU NEED TO KILL PEOPLE JUST TO MAKE A SHITTY POLITICAL POINT.

Because sometimes, the powers that be will look to appease in response. Not to the direct demands, but as a vague grievances attributed to the public. "Not like this, obviously, but clearly we should do something about immigration."

My mother should have been in danger because of this?

[Rufus]

what

To clarify: I'm being a cynical dope by saying that sometimes, the killers get their way in a roundabout way.

[Rufus]

I caught that, but couldn't see the connection to what I had posted.

[Boredfrom]

I caught that, but couldn't see the connection to what I had posted.

You are right. I’m sorry, I didn’t want to sound accusatory. I disagree with you a lot but I feel you are good people. All of this just makes me so fucking sad.

[Great Rumbler]

https://twitter.com/TPMLiveWire/status/1158054142390284293

 

[Madrun Badrun]

Stro, what is your new white nationalist friend GAF-mate saying now?

[agrajag]

https://twitter.com/ericbradner/status/1158196171451576321

 

[Rufus]

I caught that, but couldn't see the connection to what I had posted.

You are right. I’m sorry, I didn’t want to sound accusatory. I disagree with you a lot but I feel you are good people. All of this just makes me so fucking sad.

It's all good, man.

I caught that, but couldn't see the connection to what I had posted.

More the sensitivity thing. Which since bored is a reasonable guy he apologized for jumping to conclusions right away.

I get and agree with your point, just saying that someone might take it the wrong way when it's a bit too real for them in that moment.

Makes sense. I have trouble reigning in my misanthropy sometimes...  Sorry, Boredfrom.