Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 5391756 times)

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kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| America: A Yum! Brands affiliate
« Reply #34080 on: April 17, 2019, 08:45:32 PM »
He’s a counter puncher.

This 2019 PUMA shit is amazing. Like those emails are not objectionable to me at all.

He has a right to be pissed. That CAP ad was ridiculously unfair.

2019 PUMA doesn't even make sense. The 2008 version was because they were so mad Hillary lost to Obama. In, 2016, their candidate won the nomination and she couldn't seal the deal. Why are you targeting Bernie now other than complain that Hilary ran a bad campaign.

Bernie even went out campaigning for Hillary.

I went to a campaign event myself, actually.... probably the only one in the campaign that went to Wisconsin.

Himu

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« Reply #34081 on: April 17, 2019, 08:55:37 PM »
Sad but good she did it without killing others.
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Tripon

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« Reply #34082 on: April 17, 2019, 09:50:59 PM »

shosta

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« Reply #34083 on: April 17, 2019, 10:08:36 PM »
are you in the bay, tripon?
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Tripon

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« Reply #34084 on: April 17, 2019, 10:14:04 PM »
are you in the bay, tripon?

L.A., but there's similar issues here in terms of affordable housing. The guy running these mailers is the same asshole who is using his AID non profit to protect his multi million dollar mansion and his 'views' so they don't build apartment buildings near his house.

Himu

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« Reply #34085 on: April 18, 2019, 12:45:31 AM »
https://www.wired.com/story/one-doctors-answer-to-drug-deaths-opioid-vending-machines/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

30 years ago:

criminalize those addicted to crack, ship it into black neighborhoods, destroy entire communities.

Now, during a drug crisis that affects mostly white people:

we need opiate vending machines.

I have no idea if it's because the overall attitude towards drug use has changed in the public, racism, or both.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2019, 12:50:06 AM by Cindi Mayweather »
IYKYK

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« Reply #34086 on: April 18, 2019, 12:49:09 AM »
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Dickie Dee

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« Reply #34087 on: April 18, 2019, 02:04:31 AM »
https://www.wired.com/story/one-doctors-answer-to-drug-deaths-opioid-vending-machines/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

30 years ago:

criminalize those addicted to crack, ship it into black neighborhoods, destroy entire communities.

Now, during a drug crisis that affects mostly white people:

we need opiate vending machines.

I have no idea if it's because the overall attitude towards drug use has changed in the public, racism, or both.

not sure why you're equating the Reagan administration with a pilot program in a harm reduction safe zone in Vancouver
« Last Edit: April 18, 2019, 02:09:41 AM by Dickie Dee »
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« Reply #34088 on: April 18, 2019, 07:52:04 AM »
https://twitter.com/CarolLeonnig/status/1118677732014088193

So if it really does turns out to be only lightly redacted and it exonerates Trump, I wonder what conspiracy #Releasethereport crowd will latch on to next? My guess would be they'll move on to #Releasethetax. Personally I hope Maddow continues with the Russia conspiracy though, backing down is a sign of weakness.

Nola

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« Reply #34089 on: April 18, 2019, 08:50:04 AM »
Considering by-the-books Mueller was unable to make a clear judgment of exoneration on obstruction, impressing upon that point even, and we all have access to NBC, it would seem pretty difficult to get to a place where Trump comes out looking the way some of you like to play dumb and move the ethical goalposts in pursuit of defending him to own the libs.

VomKriege

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« Reply #34090 on: April 18, 2019, 10:22:24 AM »
I mean Era is in a frenzy but if I understand correctly :

- Report to be released to Congress.
- No redactions by the White House.
- Redactions by the AG related to ongoing cases and to protect third parties from slander.
- 10 episodes characterising the suspected obstruction on which the Special Councel weighted legal musings which I imagine are included, Barr's opinion notwithstanding.
- More details on Russian interferences and possible links between Trump Campaign staff and possible information brokers even if no direct link proved between the Russian Government and Trump, probably included in the report.
- Barr not opposed to Mueller being called to Congress for testimony.

Isn't it all a rather positive outcome regardless of the spin ?
« Last Edit: April 18, 2019, 10:28:09 AM by VomKriege »
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Joe Molotov

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« Reply #34091 on: April 18, 2019, 10:28:03 AM »
I mean Era is in a frenzy but if I understand correctly :

- Report to be released to Congress.
- No redactions by the White House.
- Redactions by the AG related to ongoing cases and to protect third parties from slander.
- 10 episodes characterising the suspected obstruction on which the Special Councel weighted legal musings which I imagine are included, Barr's opinion notwithstanding.
- More details on Russian interferences and possible links between Trump Campaign staff and possible information brokers even if no direct link proved between the Russian Government and Trump, probably included in the report.
- Barr not opposed to Mueller being called to Congress.

Isn't it all a rather positive outcome ?

- Nazis now stronger than ever.
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Nola

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« Reply #34092 on: April 18, 2019, 10:40:51 AM »
I mean Era is in a frenzy but if I understand correctly :

- Report to be released to Congress.
- No redactions by the White House.
- Redactions by the AG related to ongoing cases and to protect third parties from slander.
- 10 episodes characterising the suspected obstruction on which the Special Councel weighted legal musings which I imagine are included, Barr's opinion notwithstanding.
- More details on Russian interferences and possible links between Trump Campaign staff and possible information brokers even if no direct link proved between the Russian Government and Trump, probably included in the report.
- Barr not opposed to Mueller being called to Congress for testimony.

Isn't it all a rather positive outcome regardless of the spin ?
Who the fuck cares what some randoms on Era think? I know the answer is an unhealthy niche of people a thread over that derives an unhealthy size of their identity from hating that site, but still.

Anyways, more like let's just wait and read the report.

There are very real concerns about Barr's role in this process, including just now from that conference. Where it looks more and more like Barr is turning the DOJ into Trump's second defense counsel and PR firm. What is left redacted and what the inevitable leaks/impressions from the less-redacted congressional version signals will be the hinge on how to swing judgment going forward IMO.

kingv

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« Reply #34093 on: April 18, 2019, 11:13:28 AM »
What would total exoneration even look like?

At the very best, Trump is able to impress people that he acted incredibly ethically shady and ran right up to the line without technically breaking the law.

But because of the way this has been rolled out, I don’t even think it’s possible to do that. Barr is doing an incredible job of making it look like he’s trying to cover up the report in Trumps favor. So if he’s truly trying to be as transparent as possible, he’s doing a piss poor job of it.

All of the things We publically know about still happened.

kingv

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« Reply #34094 on: April 18, 2019, 11:18:11 AM »
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1118895263790370817

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1118895937265504256

I guess nobody is exonerated.

Also: it was released in non searchable PDF with none of the exhibits.


kingv

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« Reply #34095 on: April 18, 2019, 11:24:21 AM »

kingv

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agrajag

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« Reply #34097 on: April 18, 2019, 11:33:17 AM »
Well, now you see why Trump was trying to obstruct this probe so much. The pieces kingv quoted are damning from a political standpoint. But the republicans probably pretty effectively poisoned the well already.

BisMarckie

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« Reply #34098 on: April 18, 2019, 11:35:32 AM »
The problem has always been "what crime does that collusion represent?" to me.

I've never gotten a good answer to that question;  unless money exchanged hands I doubt anything was illegal.

i am not well versed in US politics, but when I worked on an investigation against people who allegedly received bribes I got the same impression. There is a lot of smoke, a lot of shady shit that happened, but unless you have anything more than circumstantial evidece, there isn’t much you ca do.

Joe Molotov

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« Reply #34099 on: April 18, 2019, 11:36:09 AM »
You're gonna get tired of all the exoneration.
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VomKriege

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« Reply #34100 on: April 18, 2019, 11:45:01 AM »
The problem has always been "what crime does that collusion represent?" to me.

I've never gotten a good answer to that question;  unless money exchanged hands I doubt anything was illegal.

Conspiracy and coordination seems to be the actual legal parliance.
They couldn't prove it but the report is very unflattering there, saying that members of the Trump campaign knew of the interference effort by Russia, expected to benefit electorally from it and didn't cooperate as much as expected with the investigation about it.

Mueller also deferred to Congress about the potential obstruction and it seems to me that Congress may actually have enough to open a procedure even if it doesn't go anywhere.
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VomKriege

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« Reply #34101 on: April 18, 2019, 12:05:16 PM »
Also stated in the report : Trump Campaign members may have deleted evidence/communications, that the lack of those records mean they couldn't corroborate claims from witnesses and that as such the conclusion on the absence of collusion is lukewarm at best.

Barr really stretched as much as he could the two reductive bits he quoted in his memo.
 :mueller
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agrajag

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« Reply #34102 on: April 18, 2019, 12:16:23 PM »
It should be Eraclear by now that Barr is not a good faith actor.

Tripon

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agrajag

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« Reply #34104 on: April 18, 2019, 12:19:06 PM »
https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/1118902470024019968

this is another important thing to note. All the people who are doing victory laps because the Mueller report "exonerated" Trump are picking and choosing which parts to believe. Because I am pretty sure the Mueller report has no mention of Seth Rich*




*what if he's one of the redacted persons of interest  :ohhh :hans1


Dickie Dee

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« Reply #34105 on: April 18, 2019, 12:19:17 PM »
The problem has always been "what crime does that collusion represent?" to me.

I've never gotten a good answer to that question;  unless money exchanged hands I doubt anything was illegal.

Conspiracy and coordination seems to be the actual legal parliance.
They couldn't prove it but the report is very unflattering there, saying that members of the Trump campaign knew of the interference effort by Russia, expected to benefit electorally from it and didn't cooperate as much as expected with the investigation about it.

Mueller also deferred to Congress about the potential obstruction and it seems to me that Congress may actually have enough to open a procedure even if it doesn't go anywhere.

https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1118909372489523200

Edit: Don't know why it's also embedding the pee tape tweet but whatevs
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VomKriege

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« Reply #34106 on: April 18, 2019, 12:21:34 PM »
I mean Era is in a frenzy but if I understand correctly :

- Report to be released to Congress.
- No redactions by the White House.
- Redactions by the AG related to ongoing cases and to protect third parties from slander.
- 10 episodes characterising the suspected obstruction on which the Special Councel weighted legal musings which I imagine are included, Barr's opinion notwithstanding.
- More details on Russian interferences and possible links between Trump Campaign staff and possible information brokers even if no direct link proved between the Russian Government and Trump, probably included in the report.
- Barr not opposed to Mueller being called to Congress for testimony.

Isn't it all a rather positive outcome regardless of the spin ?
Who the fuck cares what some randoms on Era think? I know the answer is an unhealthy niche of people a thread over that derives an unhealthy size of their identity from hating that site, but still.

Anyways, more like let's just wait and read the report.

There are very real concerns about Barr's role in this process, including just now from that conference. Where it looks more and more like Barr is turning the DOJ into Trump's second defense counsel and PR firm. What is left redacted and what the inevitable leaks/impressions from the less-redacted congressional version signals will be the hinge on how to swing judgment going forward IMO.

I mean, I obviously wasn't praising Barr (hence why I talk of spin) but he is releasing the report and I'm not even sure the delay was unreasonable. I mentioned RE because it's a good barometer of the most emotionally clouded reactions. It's a bit disgraceful Barr felt the need to defend Trump and share his peculiar interpretation of what is obstruction but ultimately the House can discard it if they so decide.
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kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Last Refuge of Cowards and Boreans
« Reply #34107 on: April 18, 2019, 12:24:57 PM »
I just mean the trump tower meeting is all you need to see to know that there was illegal coordination. Setting up the meeting was likely a crime.
:foodcourt

You should explain how knowingly taking a meeting with a representative of a foreign government to get dirt on your political opponent squares with FEC laws.

Here is the relevant portion(s) straight from the FEv website:

Quote
The Act and Commission regulations include a broad prohibition on foreign national activity in connection with elections in the United States. 52 U.S.C. § 30121 and generally, 11 CFR 110.20. In general, foreign nationals are prohibited from the following activities:

Making any contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or making any expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement in connection with any federal, state or local election in the United States;
Making any contribution or donation to any committee or organization of any national, state, district, or local political party (including donations to a party nonfederal account or office building account);
Making any disbursement for an electioneering communication;
Making any donation to a presidential inaugural committee.
Persons who knowingly and willfully engage in these activities may be subject to an FEC enforcement action, criminal prosecution, or both.


Quote
Soliciting, accepting, or receiving contributions and donations from foreign nationals

The Act prohibits knowingly soliciting, accepting or receiving contributions or donations from foreign nationals. In this context, "knowingly" means that a person:

Has actual knowledge that the funds solicited, accepted, or received are from a foreign national;
Is aware of facts that would lead a reasonable person to believe that the funds solicited, accepted, or received are likely to be from a foreign national; or
Is aware of facts that would lead a reasonable person to inquire whether the source of the funds solicited, accepted or received is a foreign national.
Pertinent facts that should cause the recipient of a contribution or donation to question whether it was given by a foreign national include, but are not limited to the following: a donor or contributor uses a foreign passport, provides a foreign address, makes a contribution from a foreign bank, or resides abroad. Commission regulations provide for a safe harbor: obtaining a copy of a current and valid U.S. passport would satisfy the duty to inquire whether the funds solicited, accepted, or received are from a foreign national.

A plain reading of the rules says that

1) The Russian government was clearly offering a thing of value in the email.
2) everybody in that meeting knew that they were offering a thing of value
3) the whole purpose of the meeting was for the Russians to give something to help the trump campaign.

If someone says opposition research doesn’t have value, that’s obviously wrong because people pay large amounts for it. It seems to be a very obvious violation of election law.

Mueller seems to agree with this:

https://twitter.com/eshap/status/1118910309320876035

But let’s them off on the idea that they would all deny knowing it was a crime.

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« Reply #34108 on: April 18, 2019, 12:26:07 PM »
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Tripon

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« Reply #34109 on: April 18, 2019, 12:30:29 PM »
Quote
The Mueller report also lays out the ways that Trump campaign officials and surrogates amplified the IRA's messages on Twitter and Facebook as they sought to interfere in public discourse and amplify divisive political rhetoric.

Trump campaign officials, including senior adviser Kellyanne Conway and Donald Trump Jr., cited and retweeted content from the IRA about topics including voter fraud and Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton's handling of classified information, according to Mueller.   
Mueller's team found that Trump campaign affiliates promoted "dozens" of tweets, posts and other political content created by the IRA.

NBC News previously reported that Trump campaign associates amplified and reposted the IRA's messages.

Donald Trump Jr. in 2016 retweeted a post from @Pamela_Moore13, an IRA-controlled Twitter account, and in 2017, Trump from his personal Twitter account responded to a tweet from IRA-affilaited @10_GOP.

"IRA employees monitored the reaction of the Trump campaign and, later, Trump administration officials to their tweets," Mueller's report reads.

Mueller's investigation concluded that Russia interfered in the 2016 presidential election to boost Trump through a social media campaign coordinated by the IRA.

The IRA purchased 3,000 political ads on Facebook’s platform and operated hundreds of accounts attempting to influence the perspectives of Americans during the 2016 elections.

https://thehill.com/policy/technology/439532-mueller-identified-dozens-of-us-rallies-organized-by-russian-troll-farm

VomKriege

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« Reply #34110 on: April 18, 2019, 12:32:20 PM »
Doesn't the US have "ignorance of the law is not a legal defense" principle ?
Because that quote from the report about the June 9 meeting is :mindblown .
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BisMarckie

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« Reply #34111 on: April 18, 2019, 12:33:54 PM »
The Irish? I knew it was them! Even when it was the Russians, I knew it was them!

Nola

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« Reply #34112 on: April 18, 2019, 12:35:11 PM »
I mean Era is in a frenzy but if I understand correctly :

- Report to be released to Congress.
- No redactions by the White House.
- Redactions by the AG related to ongoing cases and to protect third parties from slander.
- 10 episodes characterising the suspected obstruction on which the Special Councel weighted legal musings which I imagine are included, Barr's opinion notwithstanding.
- More details on Russian interferences and possible links between Trump Campaign staff and possible information brokers even if no direct link proved between the Russian Government and Trump, probably included in the report.
- Barr not opposed to Mueller being called to Congress for testimony.

Isn't it all a rather positive outcome regardless of the spin ?
Who the fuck cares what some randoms on Era think? I know the answer is an unhealthy niche of people a thread over that derives an unhealthy size of their identity from hating that site, but still.

Anyways, more like let's just wait and read the report.

There are very real concerns about Barr's role in this process, including just now from that conference. Where it looks more and more like Barr is turning the DOJ into Trump's second defense counsel and PR firm. What is left redacted and what the inevitable leaks/impressions from the less-redacted congressional version signals will be the hinge on how to swing judgment going forward IMO.

I mean, I obviously wasn't praising Barr (hence why I talk of spin) but he is releasing the report and I'm not even sure the delay was unreasonable. I mentioned RE because it's a good barometer of the most emotionally clouded reactions. It's a bit disgraceful Barr felt the need to defend Trump and share his peculiar interpretation of what is obstruction but ultimately the House can discard it if they so decide.

The delay was certainly reasonable. The turning of the DOJ into a second defense attorney firm for the president, including scrapping the special counsel's own summaries and offering a politically tactical and inappropriate exonerative framing to get out a protective narrative into the public ahead of later corrections and context, to me is certainly not.

Boredfrom

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« Reply #34113 on: April 18, 2019, 12:36:49 PM »
Filler cannot read. So sad.

agrajag

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« Reply #34114 on: April 18, 2019, 12:40:43 PM »
Filler cannot read. So sad.

filler is a low rent troll, more at 11

TakingBackSunday

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« Reply #34116 on: April 18, 2019, 12:49:26 PM »
 :trumps
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Tripon

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Tripon

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« Reply #34119 on: April 18, 2019, 01:01:52 PM »
From the shit we're reading, it reads like the Trump campaign tried to throw everything on the wall and see what stuck to damage the Clinton campaign. The question now is if they're bold enough to do that again in 2020 to re-elect Trump.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Of course they will.
[close]

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« Reply #34120 on: April 18, 2019, 01:08:22 PM »
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Joe Molotov

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« Reply #34121 on: April 18, 2019, 01:09:40 PM »
©@©™


shosta

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« Reply #34123 on: April 18, 2019, 01:34:18 PM »
The president thought the special counsel investigation was the "end of his presidency"  :doge
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kingv

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« Reply #34124 on: April 18, 2019, 01:35:04 PM »
https://twitter.com/david_leavitt/status/1118926941195833344

This comment casts the whole report in a different light, and essentially serves as a huge asterisk on the Russian conspiracy questions.

It’s basically saying there was an effort to obstruct justice amongst members of the campaign that led to an inability to fully account for what happened between the campaign and Russia.


kingv

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« Reply #34126 on: April 18, 2019, 01:45:19 PM »
So Prince and Bannon gave conflicting accounts of the Seychelles meeting, but both had also deleted all of the messages on their phones prior to May 2017 so nobody could figure out if one or both were lying.

That’s not suspicious or anything like that.

Nintex

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« Reply #34127 on: April 18, 2019, 01:48:27 PM »
Nothing happened. They were a bunch of fucking AMATEURS.

I mean, anyone with a Twitter or 4chan account knew what was going on with the Trump campaign and pretty much anyone who hated Hillary Clinton could jump on the ship.

The June 9 meeting is going to be the best scene of the movie

https://twitter.com/AdamHerbets/status/1118901214710775810
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Trent Dole

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« Reply #34128 on: April 18, 2019, 01:55:09 PM »
Hi

Nintex

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« Reply #34129 on: April 18, 2019, 01:57:41 PM »
🤴

shosta

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« Reply #34130 on: April 18, 2019, 02:02:17 PM »
WikiLeaks on multiple occasions offered suggestions to Trump Jr. on campaign things like which anti-Clinton facts to use or organizations to link her to  :doge
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Nintex

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« Reply #34131 on: April 18, 2019, 02:07:43 PM »
Kushner's role is even better.

He asked the Russians if they could use their embassy to communicate. The Russians shot that down.  :lol

https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1118932579112112129

In other words, the Russians actually protected Kushner from doing borderline illegal shit.

Some of these guys only got lucky because someone else told them 'no'.  :lol
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Nintex

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« Reply #34132 on: April 18, 2019, 02:10:43 PM »
LMAO these fucking Russians

https://twitter.com/gatewaypundit/status/1118936024208551936

Poor Michael  :lol
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Nintex

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« Reply #34133 on: April 18, 2019, 02:52:46 PM »
This report is the gift that keeps on giving.
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Tripon

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« Reply #34134 on: April 18, 2019, 02:59:31 PM »
https://twitter.com/i/events/1118929141171015681

Quote
Trump's lawyer told Manafort he'd be taken 'care of,' Mueller report says
The redacted report highlighted a conversation in which former campaign manager Paul Manafort told Rick Gates, a former aide who cooperated with investigators, that he perceived the president would offer him a pardon. However, Trump did not offer Manafort a pardon in exchange for not pleading guilty. Mueller ultimately did not exonerate Trump of charges of obstruction.

Occam

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| America: A Yum! Brands affiliate
« Reply #34135 on: April 18, 2019, 03:12:09 PM »
If nothing happens to Trump after this, then America no longer is a nation governed by law.

(Spoiler: Nothing will happen to Trump.)
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Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| America: A Yum! Brands affiliate
« Reply #34136 on: April 18, 2019, 03:15:21 PM »
Nothing was ever going to happen.
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VomKriege

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| America: A Yum! Brands affiliate
« Reply #34137 on: April 18, 2019, 03:16:13 PM »
Is there any reason not to impeach ? I don't buy that it would somehow help Trump with voters at large and I think you can both campaign on the issues and entangle him in proceedings.
ὕβρις

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| America: A Yum! Brands affiliate
« Reply #34138 on: April 18, 2019, 03:16:39 PM »
Nothing was ever going to happen.
enjoy your burgers everyone  :trumps
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Tripon

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