Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 7303170 times)

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thisismyusername

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1800 on: January 11, 2017, 09:53:42 PM »
QoI should be strapped into a chair with her eyeballs open and forced to read this until she's right...

http://www.gq.com/story/shut-up-about-connecting-with-trumps-middle-america


Fantastic article:
Quote
So I’ve had enough. I’ve been to Middle America as well. Hell, I grew up there. I’ve had my fair share of good times with rednecks and hunters and God-fearing truck drivers. Most people in these regions of our country are very nice people. Of course they are. Are they all racist? Of course not. Are their problems real? Of course they are. Have Democrats done a shit job offering them things of value? God, yes.

But that doesn’t, and shouldn’t, explain nor excuse what just happened. You will pardon me if I still resent a great many Trump voters for willfully taking democracy and flushing it down the toilet, thinking their concerns have been ignored when a great many other people—minorities of all kind, gay people, the majority of American women—can make a far more convincing case for it. The racism and misogyny we all saw during the campaign wasn’t some fluke. It was real, and it needed to be condemned. It shouldn't be explained away by socio-economic circumstances that NO other demographic group is ever allowed to use as a crutch. Excusing intolerance does nothing to erase it.

Don't disagree with the snippet. BUT: Both folks (the poor middle-class/whites and minorities/LGBT, people of color) need their interests both met. There isn't really a candidate on the board that would've done that successfully (even though I think Sander's economic "raise the poor and then worry about the social issues because those folks will be compliant [in theory] to those changes since their needs are met" would've been the way to go).
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 12:23:51 AM by thisismyusername »

benjipwns

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1801 on: January 11, 2017, 10:10:04 PM »
Quote from: POLITICO
The director of national intelligence, James Clapper, is denouncing leaks to the media about a briefing President-elect Donald Trump received last week.

In a statement, Clapper said he had spoken late Wednesday with Trump and assured him that the intelligence community "stands ready to serve his administration."

"I expressed my profound dismay at the leaks that have been appearing in the press, and we both agreed that they are extremely corrosive and damaging to our national security," Clapper said of last week's briefing.

Clapper further described a private unsubstantiated report that Russia has compromising, salacious material on Trump as something that should be looked at with intense skepticism.

"I emphasized that this document is not a U.S. Intelligence Community product and that I do not believe the leaks came from within the IC," Clapper said. "The IC has not made any judgment that the information in this document is reliable, and we did not rely upon it in any way for our conclusions."
this guy :lol

benjipwns

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1802 on: January 11, 2017, 10:45:11 PM »
This piece is more interesting for the opposition research background aspect of the story than everything else:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/11/us/politics/donald-trump-russia-intelligence.html
Quote
The story began in September 2015, when a wealthy Republican donor who strongly opposed Mr. Trump put up the money to hire a Washington research firm run by former journalists, Fusion GPS, to compile a dossier about the real estate magnate’s past scandals and weaknesses, according to a person familiar with the effort. The person described the opposition research work on condition of anonymity, citing the volatile nature of the story and the likelihood of future legal disputes. The identity of the donor who funded the effort is unclear.

Fusion GPS, headed by a former Wall Street Journal journalist known for his dogged reporting, Glenn Simpson, most often works for business clients. But in presidential elections, the firm is sometimes hired by candidates, party organizations or donors to do political “oppo” work — shorthand for opposition research — on the side.

It is routine work and ordinarily involves creating a big, searchable database of public information: past news reports, documents from lawsuits and other relevant data. For months, Fusion GPS gathered the documents and put together the files from Mr. Trump’s past in business and entertainment, a rich target.

After Mr. Trump emerged as the presumptive Republican nominee in the spring, the Republicans no longer wanted to finance the effort. But Democratic supporters of Hillary Clinton were very interested, and Fusion GPS kept doing the same deep dives into Mr. Trump’s record, but on behalf of new clients.
Quote
As a former spy who had carried out espionage inside Russia, Mr. Steele was in no position to travel to Moscow to study Mr. Trump’s connections there. Instead, he hired native Russian speakers to call informants inside Russia and made surreptitious contact with his own connections in the country as well.

Mr. Steele wrote up his findings in a series of memos, each a few pages long, that he began to deliver to Fusion GPS in June and continued at least until December. By then, the election was over, and neither Mr. Steele nor Mr. Simpson had a client to pay them, but they did not stop what they believed to be very important work.
Quote
But much of what he was told, and passed on to Fusion GPS, was very difficult to check. And some of the claims that can be checked seem problematic. Mr. Cohen, for instance, said on Twitter on Tuesday night that he has never been in Prague; Mr. Solodukhin, his purported Russian contact, denied in a telephone interview that he had ever met Mr. Cohen or anyone associated with Mr. Trump. The president-elect on Wednesday cited news reports that a different Michael Cohen with no Trump ties may have visited Prague and that the two Cohens might have been mixed up in Mr. Steele’s reports.

But word of a dossier had begun to spread through political circles. Rick Wilson, a Republican political operative who was working for a “super PAC” supporting Marco Rubio, said he heard about it in July, when an investigative reporter for a major news network called him to ask what he knew. Other campaigns and super PACs were also developing more limited opposition research into Mr. Trump’s Russia ties.

By early fall, some of Mr. Steele’s memos had been given to the F.B.I. and to journalists. An MI6 official, whose job does not permit him to be quoted by name, said that in late summer or early fall, Mr. Steele also passed the reports he had prepared on Mr. Trump and Russia to British intelligence. Mr. Steele was concerned about what he was hearing about Mr. Trump, and he thought that the information should not be solely in the hands of people looking to win a political contest.

After the election, the memos, still being supplemented by his inquiries, became one of Washington’s worst-kept secrets, as reporters scrambled to try to confirm or disprove their contents.

Word also reached Capitol Hill. Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, heard about the dossier and obtained a copy in December from David J. Kramer, a former top State Department official who works for the McCain Institute at Arizona State University. Mr. McCain passed the information to James B. Comey, the F.B.I. director.

Remarkably for Washington, many reporters for competing news organizations had the salacious and damning memos, but they did not leak, because their contents could not be confirmed.

Nola

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1803 on: January 11, 2017, 10:57:09 PM »
The way this is shaping up, it seems like CNN is basically staking their life on this story.

Unless they know something that other outlets haven't disclosed, or that they just don't know, anything short of a videotape and audio recordings of Trump getting peed on and telling staff or Russian operatives he is cooperating and aiding, I don't know how this ends well for CNN?

I mean as it stands, even if it turns out to have some validity eventually, CNN comes off reckless given what we suspect they knew.

benjipwns

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1804 on: January 11, 2017, 11:03:14 PM »
I don't know how this ends well for CNN?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNN_controversies

They'll be fine. Well. As fine as a 24/7 cable news channel that has 80% of its viewers from airports or hotels near airports can be.

Human Snorenado

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1805 on: January 12, 2017, 12:43:54 AM »
QoI should be strapped into a chair with her eyeballs open and forced to read this until she's right...

http://www.gq.com/story/shut-up-about-connecting-with-trumps-middle-america

article starts with "golden piss King."

"All who oppose him will never get their shit together" aka "if you don't agree with me you're stupid and harming the movement."

That'll win supporters. Fuck that article.

Fuck your stupid insistence on treating morons like they might one day be thinking human beings.

Nah, I'm not running things for the dems, and they're stupid enough to believe they need to massage the fee fees of Trump supporters. Plus Trump is going to fuck up so colossally that we'll get a Katrina/Iraq/Financial crisis type event for sure, which is the only thing big enough to jolt morons out of their slumber.

I'm seriously not sure how a thinking human being could look at someone that came to the conclusion "this guy" as anyone other than a prime candidate for being tossed into the sun, tho.

"When we deny them their basic humanity and legitimacy of their views, however different they may be than ours, when we mock them at every turn, and treat them with contempt, we do no one any good."

Indeed Mr. Bourdain.

"The self-congratulatory tone of the privileged left—just repeating and repeating and repeating the outrages of the opposition—this does not win hearts and minds. It doesn't change anyone's opinions. It only solidifies them."

Indeed.

The president made a speech last night honoring the idea that in a democracy we must exchange ideas. On FB you made a note about the importance of our nations democracy and by making these statements tarnish his entire message. Is the president wrong too?

I'm done hating people. I'm done being outraged. I tried it for three  years and it made me sick. I'm tired of being offended and I'm tired of making judgements of (most) otherwise good people because of it. I lost friends and support because of it. I learned what my behavior wrought and without human empathy we are nothing. Liberals claimed to be better. They claimed to be more ethical. They claimed to be on the right side of history. Time and time again. But I now know what the damage our language and rhetoric causes. Now I know that the empathy liberals give is only earned through pious behavior and loyalty.

All you're doing is pushing me further away from whatever "cause" you stand for.

That would be great. Except, after the election of Obama, the right went fucking insane. They don't HAVE any ideas that aren't easily disproven garbage. You can't have a conversation with someone that's insane. You have to treat them first.

It's like this: you have two people, talking about where to go for dinner. The democrat is ambivalent- they're up for a lot of different things, maybe a hamburger, maybe Chinese, maybe a trip to the fucking Olive Garden to celebrate something nice that happened in their family.

The Republican refuses to eat anything but anthrax and tire rims.

You don't let that person help pick where to eat. But you're saying WE SHOULD FUCKING LISTEN TO THEM. No we shouldn't.
yar

benjipwns

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1806 on: January 12, 2017, 01:41:55 AM »
Quote
The Senate passed a fiscal 2017 budget early Thursday, the first step in the process of repealing Obamacare through a powerful, majority-vote mechanism known as reconciliation.

The 51-48 vote came after seven hours of debate on more than a dozen Democratic amendments intended to squeeze Republicans for targeting the health law.

The House is expected to vote on the budget Friday.
FREEDOM ON THE MARCH :american

Rand Paul voted against it. RINO TRAITOR. :usacry

benjipwns

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1807 on: January 12, 2017, 01:43:16 AM »
Senator Young of Indiana stocked them up with GAMER FUEL:


benjipwns

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1808 on: January 12, 2017, 02:27:30 AM »


where's your god now BernieBros?

Optimus

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1809 on: January 12, 2017, 07:00:33 AM »
Fuck Maddow though for using Trump's expected corruption to practically defend Ted Cruz whose connections with Goldmann Sachs are numerous. She used the same rationalizations to defend Clinton too.

Trent Dole

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1810 on: January 12, 2017, 07:19:48 AM »
Hi

VomKriege

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1811 on: January 12, 2017, 07:20:41 AM »
Red Army choir, t.A.T.u. and Eduard Khil (also known as "Trololo") confirmed for Trump inauguration :

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/red-army-tatu-Trump-241652
ὕβρις

agrajag

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1812 on: January 12, 2017, 07:50:02 AM »
Red Army choir, t.A.T.u. and Eduard Khil (also known as "Trololo") confirmed for Trump inauguration :

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/red-army-tatu-Trump-241652

t.A.T.u.??? I knew there was a Russian connection! I warned you about Russia bro, I told u dog!

benjipwns

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1813 on: January 12, 2017, 07:58:12 AM »
I'm watching you Vom.

Joe Molotov

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1814 on: January 12, 2017, 09:08:28 AM »
Senator Young of Indiana stocked them up with GAMER FUEL:
(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)

Eww, I'll take the crab juice.
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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1815 on: January 12, 2017, 09:30:17 AM »
Red Army choir, t.A.T.u. and Eduard Khil (also known as "Trololo") confirmed for Trump inauguration :

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/red-army-tatu-Trump-241652

Link's broken and I can't find this elsewhere.


benjipwns

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1817 on: January 12, 2017, 09:39:06 AM »
Link's broken and I can't find this elsewhere.
Looks like Trump's Russian hackers are going scorched earth on U.S. media in retaliation.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Khil died in 2012, t.a.t.u. broke up because they hate each other over religion and couldn't even be in the same location to record their Sochi promoting single, and the Red Army choir died in a plane crash last month.
[close]

Optimus

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1818 on: January 12, 2017, 09:40:01 AM »
Bennet (D-CO)
Booker (D-NJ)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Coons (D-DE)
Donnelly (D-IN)
Heinrich (D-NM)
Heitkamp (D-ND)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Murray (D-WA)
Tester (D-MT)
Warner (D-VA)


These pieces of shit just voted against Sander's amendment to reduce drug prices. 12 Republicans (!!!) voted with Sanders. The Democratic party continues its downward spiral.

Himu

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1819 on: January 12, 2017, 09:42:42 AM »
Disgusting. Find which one are big pharma lobbyists.
IYKYK

benjipwns

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1820 on: January 12, 2017, 09:42:51 AM »
They're just reaching out to soothe the economic anxiety of pharmaceutical companies.

Himu

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1821 on: January 12, 2017, 09:54:52 AM »
Howard Schultz would have been Clinton's pick of secretary of labor

Quote
Schultz, of course, was a vocal Clinton supporter (and at one point, hacked emails released by Wikileaks even said he was on her shortlist for vice-president). The big irony of him at Labor, though, is that while far friendlier to workers than Trump’s pick Andy Puzder, the fast-food CEO who prefers robots to human staff, Schultz isn’t a huge fan of organized labor either. Still, while he also says he had “no intention” of trying to become the actual president, a cabinet job might’ve been just right, now that he’s taking a backseat at Starbucks. Plus, if Secretary Puzder’s agency ends up being the giant “middle finger to wage earners” it’s predicted to be, Americans might not think solving federal labor disputes by writing stuff on cups sounds so bad after all.

Glenn Greenwald: Democrats Eager to Blame "Everybody But Themselves" for Collapse of Their Party

Quote
...But I really haven’t experienced anything even remotely like the smear campaign that has been launched by Democrats in this really coordinated way ever since I began just expressing skepticism about the prevailing narrative over Russia and its role that it allegedly played in the election and, in particular, in helping to defeat Hillary Clinton. I mean, not even the reporting I did based on the Edward Snowden archive, which was extremely controversial in multiple countries around the world, not even that compared to the attacks now.

    And the reason is very, very obvious, which is that it has become exceptionally important to Democratic partisans to believe that the reason they lost this election is not because they chose a candidate who was corrupt and who was extremely disliked and who symbolized all of the worst failings of the Democratic Party. It’s extremely important to them not to face what is really a systemic collapse on the part of the Democratic Party as a political force in the United States, in the House, in the Senate, in state houses and governorships all over the country. And so, in order not to face any of that and have to confront their own failings, they instead want to focus everything on Vladimir Putin and Russia and insist that the reason they lost was because this big, bad dictator interfered in the election. And anyone who challenges or anyone who questions that instantly becomes not just their enemy, but now, according to their framework, someone who’s actually unpatriotic, that if you question the evidence, the sufficiency of the evidence to support this theory, that somehow your loyalties are suspect, that you’re not just a critic of the Democratic Party, you’re actually a stooge of or an agent of the Kremlin.

:rejoice
IYKYK

benjipwns

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1822 on: January 12, 2017, 09:58:46 AM »
National Review: Meryl Streep’s Speech Is Why the Left Wins
Jacobin: Meryl Streep’s speechifying at the Golden Globes was the worst thing to happen since Trump’s election.

How can we split the difference between NRO and Jacobin...hmm...oh!
The New Republic: Democrats Should Run a Celebrity for President, Too
Quote
Meryl Streep’s rebuke of Donald Trump during the Golden Globes ceremony on Sunday has revived the familiar complaint, heard from the left and right, that Hollywood’s liberalism hurts the Democratic Party. In Jacobin, Eileen Jones argued that Streep “strikes me as about the worst possible spokesperson imaginable for the Left in an era of working-class rage, so naturally she’s embraced even more tightly by liberals doubling down on their delusional Clinton Democrat worship.” National Review’s David French offered a conservative assessment that made essentially the same point: that Streep’s speech shows “why Trump won.” “Lots of voters don’t like to be hectored,” he wrote. “Lots of voters defy Hollywood’s commands.”

French, however, does think this liberal alliance has won something more important: the culture wars. “Indeed, since 1968—when the modern Left really got rolling—the Democratic party has been largely losing ground,” he argued. “But in that same period, whose cultural values have most advanced? The secular Left has taken a sledgehammer to God, family, and country—the pillars of our national culture—and Hollywood has led the way.”

Himu

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1823 on: January 12, 2017, 10:00:05 AM »
Jacobin was on the dot. As usual.

Some other Jacobin articles I suggest reading:

Who Put Trump in the White House? (Snorenado should read this)

Where Is Our Labor Party?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 10:15:31 AM by Queen of Ice »
IYKYK

Brehvolution

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1824 on: January 12, 2017, 10:10:28 AM »
Quote
The hypocritical evangelical right has taken a sledgehammer to God, family, and country—the pillars of their "national culture"—and voted in a debt ridden con man and pussy grabbing atheist with 5 kids from 3 different women.

Fixed
©ZH

benjipwns

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1825 on: January 12, 2017, 10:22:03 AM »
The latter article kinda quickly skips and glosses over the antagonism to a mass labor party the union leadership had. Especially in areas with high numbers of unskilled minority laborers. When FDR basically gave them carte blanche to write their own ticket, that still had to get through Congress, they leaped on it. The unprincipled huckster was giving them more than a dedicated labor party ever could in our system.

Unions were eventually hostile against the sewer socialists as well, IIRC. They saw their policies intruding on the unions economic interests.

Later on the big unions also became some of the more strident anti-Communist groups.

Plus there's the whole factor of, donating and providing footsoldiers for the Democrats gets more visible results in a two-party fptp system for Congress and the Presidency. Kneecaps regional parties like Farm-Labor or the Silverites or the Populists (both versions) that had to attach at the hip to another party to stay relevant. Hell, even the abolitionists who everyone thinks of as big winners historically were essentially viable nowhere as a political party until the GOP brought together all the anti-Democratic Party factions many of whom cared more about "their" issue.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1826 on: January 12, 2017, 11:43:45 AM »
Bennet (D-CO)
Booker (D-NJ)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Coons (D-DE)
Donnelly (D-IN)
Heinrich (D-NM)
Heitkamp (D-ND)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Murray (D-WA)
Tester (D-MT)
Warner (D-VA)


These pieces of shit just voted against Sander's amendment to reduce drug prices. 12 Republicans (!!!) voted with Sanders. The Democratic party continues its downward spiral.

Or maybe, you know, it's a useless amendment during the legislative process to repeal Obamacare so who gives a fuck.
010

james

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1827 on: January 12, 2017, 12:12:33 PM »
Quick question, especially for Benji.

A lot of the Trump ethics issues have been because everything had been done by tradition rather than be codified as a requirement.

"This doesnt apply to me, I opt out of this"  etc etc

Of course, this is straight out of the Latin American strongman playbook.

Which made me think....

We know how hard it is to create a constitutional amendment. The way that works is codified.

But what about again taking the Latin American strongman playbook and simply calling up a brand new constitution?

Is there anything that prevents this, or is it one of those things that was never banned because the assumption was nobody would be crass enough to attempt it?
:O

Nola

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1828 on: January 12, 2017, 12:47:14 PM »
Bennet (D-CO)
Booker (D-NJ)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Coons (D-DE)
Donnelly (D-IN)
Heinrich (D-NM)
Heitkamp (D-ND)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Murray (D-WA)
Tester (D-MT)
Warner (D-VA)


These pieces of shit just voted against Sander's amendment to reduce drug prices. 12 Republicans (!!!) voted with Sanders. The Democratic party continues its downward spiral.

Eh, I just read it and it's a more nuanced issue then you made it seem.

Still, if pressed, I'd vote for it because it would work on first glance, and it's not as disruptive as Trump's market crashing idea(that he really never believed in anyways).

Joe Molotov

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1829 on: January 12, 2017, 01:05:05 PM »
Quote
"The Obamacare bridge is collapsing, and we're sending in a rescue team," said Senator Michael B. Enzi, Republican of Wyoming and the chairman of the Senate Budget Committee. "Then we'll build new bridges to better health care, and finally, when these new bridges are finished, we'll close the old bridge."

They're gonna be the best bridges, really great bridges. People are saying they're the best bridges in the world.
©@©™



Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1832 on: January 12, 2017, 01:29:30 PM »
Seems like lots more guns than Glocks don't meet those requirements.

Himu

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1833 on: January 12, 2017, 01:29:55 PM »
Trump’s pick for CIA leader said he would refuse to restart enhanced interrogation techniques

Trump's headed into dangerous territory with how he's treating intelligence agencies and now this...
IYKYK

Himu

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1834 on: January 12, 2017, 01:50:27 PM »
Seems like lots more guns than Glocks don't meet those requirements.

Why the hard on for glocks tho

glocks are on the Mass. safe firearm list according to one of the commenters.

http://www.mass.gov/eopss/firearms-reg-and-laws/frb/approved-rosters/
IYKYK

Syph

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1835 on: January 12, 2017, 03:44:55 PM »
Booker is choosing the weirdest swords to die on
XO

Joe Molotov

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1836 on: January 12, 2017, 04:11:10 PM »
If Trump is revealed as a traitor backed by Russia, the GoP impeaches him and says, "we did what the Dems couldn't -stop Russia! They laughed when Mitt said they were the no. 1 threat!" GoP popularity smashes through the roof.
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benjipwns

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1837 on: January 12, 2017, 04:11:48 PM »
Quick question, especially for Benji.

...

But what about again taking the Latin American strongman playbook and simply calling up a brand new constitution?

Is there anything that prevents this, or is it one of those things that was never banned because the assumption was nobody would be crass enough to attempt it?
To recite the cliche: the Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land.

What's preventing anyone from breaking any law? Well, nothing really. It's about if you can get away with it and if you'll take the punishment if you get caught WITHOUT DYING ON THIS HILL.

To pull another cliche...the thing that's endlessly fascinating to me about Hitler and the Nazi's taking power in Germany was how literal they were about following the process. (Outside of all that street violence.) Hitler went to absurd lengths to get i's dotted and t's crossed on stuff that washed away the government and made him Furher with absolute power.

By comparison, using your example as they're good ones, a lot of Latin American strongmen, and European rulers, simply promulgated New Constitutions because "I said so" though they often had short shelf lives domestically even.

What vexed a lot of people with Chavez is he was going the Hitler route, seemingly doing everything on the up and up even though like, we all know it's not. Really, Putin has done the same thing. Expanding presidential powers legally, stepping down when his term ended, winning elections not completely insanely, etc.

Even with GOP control, I don't think Congress and the Supreme Court and state legislatures would be all like "sure, go ahead Donald." Even in our crumbling republic the separation of powers still works pretty darn well.

I'm not sure how you could even ban it. The person would just ignore it like all the other laws.

On the converse, there's the myth of Jackson saying "Justice John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it." Or that one about how many divisions does the Pope have or whatever. The Chief Justice actually ruled against Abraham Lincoln ordering Winfield Scott to suspend habeas corpus (which only Congress can do it) and Lincoln just ignored it and ordered more martial law and military courts to replace civilian courts. Something he also doesn't have power over and the Supreme Court said even Congress can't suspend when they're still operating (which they were back well beyond the frontlines, yet the military was still arrested sitting Congressmen and expelling them from the country) although that case didn't end until after Lincoln had been killed.

Arguably this process is the norm, since governments of all parties will act and it's only years later that a court case reaches the Supreme Court to slap it down. You know, if they're even allowed to have standing in the first place, which they often aren't.

In a lot of ways we already operate under this. The government does something blatantly prohibited by the Constitution, the Court says nobody has standing to challenge it, problem solved, I mean for them anyway who are you again? Wilson tore the first amendment apart during World War I to an amazing extent, he even went so far as to threaten workers who struck with their being drafted forcing them to sign labor contracts that forbid strikes and other work actions that were binding absent the war. The Sedition Acts basically outlawed telling the truth if it was found to be disloyal to the President. The courts signed off on internment. We haven't had a declaration of war since World War II. And this is all just related to national security/foreign policy stuff!

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Apologies for lack of details, references, links, any errors and stuff, I totally didn't write this while on the can. :doge
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Rufus

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1838 on: January 12, 2017, 04:20:41 PM »
What vexed a lot of people with Chavez is he was going the Hitler route, seemingly doing everything on the up and up even though like, we all know it's not. Really, Putin has done the same thing. Expanding presidential powers legally, stepping down when his term ended, winning elections not completely insanely, etc.
And now Erdogan. I haven't checked, but he must have fired half the civil servants in Turkey by now. Next up, changing their constitution to secure himself more power.

james

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1839 on: January 12, 2017, 04:34:54 PM »
Thank you Benji. So nothing stopping Trump from turning into Chavez?

What vexed a lot of people with Chavez is he was going the Hitler route, seemingly doing everything on the up and up even though like, we all know it's not. Really, Putin has done the same thing. Expanding presidential powers legally, stepping down when his term ended, winning elections not completely insanely, etc.
And now Erdogan. I haven't checked, but he must have fired half the civil servants in Turkey by now. Next up, changing their constitution to secure himself more power.

And now Trump can give any civil service member a $1 salary.

He can kill the EPA by giving everyone a $1 salary, they all quit, and the agency trudges along with zero staff.
:O

benjipwns

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1840 on: January 12, 2017, 04:39:12 PM »
Yeah, Erdogan is another good example, IIRC he wants to make like 20 changes or something to the Turkish Constitution this spring including stuff about elections and how the legislature is constructed.

There has to be a name for this, but I can't think of it, feels like its on the tip of my tongue. Assuming authoritarian powers through democratic/legal processes that you're not intending on honoring results that go the other way.

For the time being I will refer to it as Palpatinism. And now forever from this point on.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
:neogaf :expert
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james

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1841 on: January 12, 2017, 06:03:12 PM »
Trump is going to be triggered, HARD

Quote
Far more buses have applied to secure parking through the city for the Women’s March on Washington the day after inauguration than for the inauguration itself, D.C.Council member Charles Allen said Thursday.

Allen (D-Ward 6) said at least 1,200 buses have applied for permits to park at RFK Stadium in Washington on Jan. 21, the day of the Women’s March on Washington, while 200 have applied for parking the day before, Inauguration Day. NBC4 first reported the figures. RFK has a capacity of 1,300 buses.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2017/01/12/200-buses-have-applied-for-city-parking-on-inauguration-day-1200-have-applied-for-the-womens-march/?utm_term=.035a6154a1c5

Mind you, his supporters are probably scared to enter the Black Urban Wasteland that is Washington DC


:O

Syph

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1842 on: January 12, 2017, 06:58:10 PM »
If Trump is revealed as a traitor backed by Russia, the GoP impeaches him and says, "we did what the Dems couldn't -stop Russia! They laughed when Mitt said they were the no. 1 threat!" GoP popularity smashes through the roof.
STILL haven't even reached inauguration and this term is delivering top-tier material lol :sabu
XO

studyguy

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1843 on: January 12, 2017, 07:06:33 PM »
How long till the porn parody of the Russian Trump sex tape?
I mean someone is gonna capitalize on it eventually.

 :piss  :trumps  :piss2
pause

chronovore

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1844 on: January 12, 2017, 07:27:02 PM »
Trump is going to be triggered, HARD

Quote
Far more buses have applied to secure parking through the city for the Women’s March on Washington the day after inauguration than for the inauguration itself, D.C.Council member Charles Allen said Thursday.

Allen (D-Ward 6) said at least 1,200 buses have applied for permits to park at RFK Stadium in Washington on Jan. 21, the day of the Women’s March on Washington, while 200 have applied for parking the day before, Inauguration Day. NBC4 first reported the figures. RFK has a capacity of 1,300 buses.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2017/01/12/200-buses-have-applied-for-city-parking-on-inauguration-day-1200-have-applied-for-the-womens-march/?utm_term=.035a6154a1c5

Mind you, his supporters are probably scared to enter the Black Urban Wasteland that is Washington DC

(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)


chronovore

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1845 on: January 12, 2017, 07:29:29 PM »
How long till the porn parody of the Russian Trump sex tape?
I mean someone is gonna capitalize on it eventually.

 :piss :trumps :piss2


Trump is an automatic boner-killer, it'll never happen.


Let me know if Ivanka ever releases a hyper-annunciated audio single.


Syph

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1847 on: January 12, 2017, 09:11:43 PM »
Greenwald is dumb as dogshit, and QoI comes off as pretty close to that for quoting his inane ramblings.
why
XO

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1848 on: January 12, 2017, 10:05:43 PM »


:tocry
010

Great Rumbler

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1849 on: January 12, 2017, 10:12:59 PM »
Don't go. Please. :tocry
dog


chronovore

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1851 on: January 12, 2017, 11:05:48 PM »
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20170112/09144736472/official-sixteen-government-agencies-now-have-access-to-unminimized-domestic-nsa-collections.shtml

Nah he can go


Yeah, Barry has not been great for privacy issues, and I wish he'd gone for the throat a few more times with those who impeded him. Then again, he may have done just that, but not make front-page news of it. Or tweets.

VomKriege

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1852 on: January 13, 2017, 05:37:16 AM »
It is a bit lost with the Russian Showers thing but apparently Trump has not really resolved any of the ethics stuff.
This is gonna be a shitshow.
ὕβρις

Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1853 on: January 13, 2017, 06:35:48 AM »
The President giving the Vice President a medal thing seems pretty masturbatory. I'm with Tom Ricks and wish Biden hadn't accepted. We're all going to hate it when Trump gives Pence a medal.

VomKriege

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1854 on: January 13, 2017, 07:25:55 AM »
The President giving the Vice President a medal thing seems pretty masturbatory. I'm with Tom Ricks and wish Biden hadn't accepted. We're all going to hate it when Trump gives Pence a medal.

...and to Kushner and his own kids. Maybe to himself too ? I wouldn't be that surprised. :lol

Also, "Fake News" label was a mistake, nothing but trash.
ὕβρις


Optimus

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1856 on: January 13, 2017, 09:31:58 AM »
Bennet (D-CO)
Booker (D-NJ)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Coons (D-DE)
Donnelly (D-IN)
Heinrich (D-NM)
Heitkamp (D-ND)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Murray (D-WA)
Tester (D-MT)
Warner (D-VA)


These pieces of shit just voted against Sander's amendment to reduce drug prices. 12 Republicans (!!!) voted with Sanders. The Democratic party continues its downward spiral.

Or maybe, you know, it's a useless amendment during the legislative process to repeal Obamacare so who gives a fuck.


Or maybe, you know, if it was such a useless amendmend why not vote for it anyway to avoid the backlash? I'm sure the fact that many of them have received donations from the pharmaceutical industry is irrelevant.

How the fuck is that disaster of a party gonna fix itself when liberals keep making excuses for them?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 10:17:04 AM by Optimus »

james

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1857 on: January 13, 2017, 09:33:42 AM »
Can we talk about how after the massive expansion of the intelligence agencies under Bush and Obama, they're still a pile of dog shit?

Whats their ONE JOB?

Preventing foreign attacks on the US

Remember how after 9/11 theyre all like "well heres all the stuff we had saying an attack was going to happen using this method by these people?

15 years later, SAME SHIT

A foreign power has engineered a coup on the US federal government and theyre all like

"Huh, why yes, we do have all this stuff saying this was going to happen using this method by these people"

TOO FUCKING LATER MOTHER FUCKERS.

Whats the point of NSA recording every convo if they cant use it when it matters?

Quote
According to a senior U.S. government official, Flynn phoned Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak several times on Dec. 29, the day the Obama administration announced the expulsion of 35 Russian officials as well as other measures in retaliation for the hacking. What did Flynn say, and did it undercut the U.S. sanctions? The Logan Act (though never enforced) bars U.S. citizens from correspondence intending to influence a foreign government about “disputes” with the United States. Was its spirit violated? The Trump campaign didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-did-obama-dawdle-on-russias-hacking/2017/01/12/75f878a0-d90c-11e6-9a36-1d296534b31e_story.html?utm_term=.051b118ba646

RELEASE THE TRANSCRIPTS

:O

Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1858 on: January 13, 2017, 10:25:15 AM »
What's also crazy is that someone in the IC leaked that they were tapping Flynn's phones. Welcome to the new normal?

Edit: It doesn't actually say Flynn's phones are tapped. It's possible the Russians told us.  :doge

james

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Re: Gold-Drenched Trumpmerica Thread |OT| drip drip drip
« Reply #1859 on: January 13, 2017, 12:40:16 PM »
If Michael Flynn is not LOCKED UP by the end of the business day there is no democracy
:O