Author Topic: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.  (Read 122829 times)

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BisMarckie

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to be completely fair the srebrenica take consists of two components, the first is that war crimes absolutely were committed but that albanians were also responsible for significant crimes that went totally unreported, and the second is that it wasn't "technically a genocide" because only men were shot. Not really "genocide denial", besides literally denying it was a genocide, more like stanning really hard for people nobody likes. Like a defense attorney. Or me during my wank dad phase.

I will never defend any of this in public, though, that will get me beaten to death or blacklisted

You mean Bosnians right?

The war in Yugoslavia was one of the first wars that were also fought by PR firms that every party hired.
Outside of some pretty hilarious and ridiculous music videos, this also meant that we (as in the public and academia) also kind of fell for it. Croatia always tried to emphasize their catholic identity to show that they are not really a part of the Balkans. They even sent their state orchestra out on a world tour to show that they appreciate western art. We had these images evoking pictures from the liberation of Nazi concentration camps that showed us Bosnian victims. Serbia had none of that, they were shown as the aggressor. Serbian victims of violence and displacement were never really in the public conscience.
To construct a contrarian argument to downplay Serbian war crimes to go against the western media consensus is incredibly easy. I‘m not familiar with this guy‘s work so I won‘t get more into his motivations.

shosta

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No, I mean the Kosovo Liberation Army.
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BisMarckie

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But I thought you were talking about Srebrenica?

The most prominent war crime during the Kosovo war was the Racak massacre, and to defend or downplay that one doesn‘t require jumping through as many hoops as downplaying Srebrenica, since the reporting around the Racak massacre has been controversial.

Kara

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Esch posting so many memes from my orbit of social media / forums... what's your Rhizzone account mate.

BisMarckie

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Communists annihilated by Grandpa Krstan.  8)

shosta

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But I thought you were talking about Srebrenica?

The most prominent war crime during the Kosovo war was the Racak massacre, and to defend or downplay that one doesn‘t require jumping through as many hoops as downplaying Srebrenica, since the reporting around the Racak massacre has been controversial.
I should have phrased my post better. The book is about the targeted destruction of the entirety of Yugoslavia from sanctions to bombings, not just that one massacre or Bosnia. I just said "Albanians also committed crimes" because that was memorable to me as an example of a totally-victimized and never-scrutinized faction in the Balkan wars, not because I thought Srebrenica was in Kosovo. And also because Taken was a formative movie for me.
Croatia always tried to emphasize their catholic identity to show that they are not really a part of the Balkans. They even sent their state orchestra out on a world tour to show that they appreciate western art.
RELEVANT
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 12:14:24 AM by shosta »
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benjipwns

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I'm just a normal registered Democrat party voter
this is kinda sus

I say this as a normal everyday American non-voter who is registered to vote purely through the requirements of the state (as in the American state of Michigan, not the conceptual state) complying with the National Voter Registration Act of 1993 as passed by both houses of our Congress and signed by President Bill Clinton.

 :trumps

Kara

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I've got absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I'm just a normal registered Democrat party voter who believes in freedom and liberty for all, and the execution of democratic elections to really express every man's interests.

 :trumps


BIONIC

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What the fuck is anybody talking about in this fucking thread?
Wine

Kara

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ur mom

shosta

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ok last bit of parenti spam



 :heart
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Kara

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Meant to post this when we were talking Balkans.


BisMarckie

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If this was a higher quality image I would have proposed to make the expression of Milosevic and he man to his right an emote here.

toku

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dope post-rock album cover

Kara

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Kara

  • It was all going to be very admirable and noble and it would show us - philosophically - what it means to be human.
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Very cool that the troops have social media!

https://twitter.com/Southcom/status/1126567827819962370

shosta

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https://www.versobooks.com/books/2822-people-s-republic-of-walmart

holy plot twist, batman  :leon

spoiler (click to show/hide)
as seen on sam seder  :doge
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Kara

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That's on my to read list. I haven't actually read it because I'm sure it will undersell how much of Wal-Mart / Amazon's "successful" central planning relies on a comically evil degree of surplus value appropriation, government welfare, unsustainable global supply chains, and human misery. Plus since it's Verso I'm sure it's going to veer into comedy like parecon or whatever the Pacific Northwest drum circles are on about these days.

Unrelated: Voxsplainers about the rationing function of prices? Going hopepunk was the best decision I made. 8)

Trent Dole

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Hopepunk - it's like Obama with a mohawk?
Hi

Kara

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https://www.propublica.org/article/terror-in-little-saigon-vietnam-american-journalists-murdered#intro

This was a bit of wild read for me personally because:

I knew none of this stuff had happened here in Orange County when I was growing up. Only thing I can think of was an incident where a store had a flag for actual Vietnam in its window that drew a lot of protests.

It was also kind of a mindfuck because the enmity between exiles I mainly encountered growing up was who collaborated with the French which is probably some bizarre class marker I didn't even know I had.

Anyway, the rule of law is very important! And a free press whose safety and security is sacrosanct! And the chilling effect on free speech by non-state actors!

spoiler (click to show/hide)
There's probably a story like this involving the Cuban community, isn't there? :doge
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curly

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Quote
As part of their defense, their lawyers argued that the Front members were immune from prosecution because they had struck a secret deal with the CIA and the Department of Defense. In exchange for their help in locating American prisoners of war in Vietnam, the agencies had given the Front permission to do as it wished with the money raised in America.

Prosecutors scoffed at the claim. One defense lawyer, interviewed recently, insisted there was evidence to substantiate the men’s assertion, but the lawyer would neither disclose nor discuss it.

ProPublica and Frontline sought to obtain the entire case file to reconstruct what happened. Surprisingly, staff at the federal courthouses in San Jose and San Francisco said the file had been lost, and the Federal Records Center, which archives old court records, was also unable locate the documents.

The office of the current U.S. attorney in San Francisco would not discuss the case. The Department of Defense and CIA also both refused to talk about the Front.

The few court records that have survived, as well as interviews with some of those involved, show the case came to a sudden, anticlimactic end.

On January 4, 1995, some four years after the indictments had been announced, U.S. District Judge James Ware held a hearing on a motion made by lawyers for the Front members. The lawyers argued that their clients had been denied their right to a speedy trial. The judge, embarrassed, conceded that they were right, and dismissed the case.

Zwemke said he heard about the dismissal in a phone call from the prosecutor’s office. The assistant U.S. attorney said little more than, “Sorry, I wasn’t watching the clock,” Zwemke recalled.

“You got to be kidding me.”

 :thinking

curly

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Quote
Later in 1995, Louis Freeh, then the director of the FBI, visited the San Francisco office, where Tang-Wilcox had been grinding along in her pursuit of the Front.

For years, often working solo, she had pulled together a mountain of files from agents across the country, and had scoured them for ways to connect the group to more than two dozen criminal acts.

Finally given an audience with Freeh, Tang-Wilcox said she made a direct plea to him in front of other agents: Either give me the resources to pursue this case or shut it down.

Nearly 15 years after Lam’s murder gave an early intimation of the Front’s tactics, Freeh decided to make the group a priority. The investigation was formally declared a “major case” on organized crime and domestic terrorism grounds, a move that brought it additional agents.

Know what year US/Vietnamese relations were normalized? 1995  :hans1

Kara

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Felix Biederman said gusano on this week's episode of Chapo. :lol

Sure he's the one most plugged in with edge left stuff on Twitter (e.g. making J. Sakai jokes, calling the Osprey a Maoist Third-Worldist weapon because it kills more U.S. troops than opposing forces) but I'm still taking this as further evidence that the Overton window is shifting far left. :hmph


shosta

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Can't wait for the Socialism vs. Capitalism Town Hall on Fox Business News tomorrow!
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Kara

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Felix Biederman said gusano on this week's episode of Chapo. :lol

I might be playing myself but I thought I heard one of the hosts say it in a recent Citations Needed too.

Don't recall that ever happening, but I 100% believe Adam Johnson has said that word multiple times in his life.

Kara

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Kara

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The Green New Deal is a solar-powered drone built in a sustainable defense contractor facility by AFL-CIO workers dropping recyclable laser guided munitions with Ginsu knives on kids who have unreliable access to clean drinking water. Elizabeth Warren 2020.

shosta

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Richard Wolff and Herman Cain are here  :hyper
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shosta

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Question, roughly: "Isn't it a contradiction that we have so many wealthy people in this country but so many people that are hungry and homeless?"
Herman Cain: "First of all, I reject your assumptions..." ???


Herman Cain: "United Soviet Socialist Republics..."
Richard Wolff: "Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, but that's alright."


Stuart Varney: "And their leader in Chian who said, let a thousand flowers bloom... I can't remember the name of their leader who said that..."
Wolff: "Are you teaching people? In OUR schools?" :dead


This is amazing. Absolutely the best program I have ever watched on TV, ever
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shosta

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I thought I just misheard him at the beginning but, rather than address the subject directly, Cain actually refuses to believe there are homeless people in New York City.


Chris Farley look alike in a FULL suit and tie, who obviously came here as a home court fan: "How close are we to getting to PURE capitalism? No taxes, no state, free market economy. Because, you know, people left keep saying, 'how far can we go to the left?' Well how about we see how far we can take it to the right?" He is smiling by the time he finishes his question.


Twenty minutes in Stuart Varney is replaced with Neil Cavuto because Varney kept telling the students asking questions: "I don't know why you're laughing, sunshine." Also because he kept going on about how he's a millionaire because he worked hard owning land.


Cain salty as fuck because of the Wolff quips :lol


Chris Farley is not in the audience anymore.
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shosta

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Lou Dobbs has entered the building. I just realized they're rotating all their Fox news hosts like tag team wrestling all so they can get a shot in at Richard Wolff.
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shosta

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Last question for today: "Can we at least agree that education, housing, food security, and healthcare access is a human right?"
Dobbs: "There is no such thing as human rights." I did not paraphrase that.


Dobbs: "China is a country America built. And it always will be."


It's over. In my heart, the debate is settled. I wish I had recorded this. Sorry Bore!
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benjipwns

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Lou Dobbs has entered the building. I just realized they're rotating all their Fox news hosts like tag team wrestling all so they can get a shot in at Richard Wolff.
Fox Business hosts :ufup

shosta

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shosta

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The first half hour was truly :delicious although I misremembered some stuff as I was typing it (young Chris Farley is not smiling as he advocates for pure ancap freedom). It picks up again once Lou Dobbs joins and people literally cheer in the audience. I think rotating out 25% of the panel every 15 minutes was just one of many ways that this wasn't a proper discussion at all and nothing interesting could be discussed at length or developed.
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Kara

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Just starting these (thanks Dmitri Dmitriyevich) but before I do I want to say that between this, the Bernie town hall, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez mania, things are looking bright in the war of ideas, combrehs. Building social fascism together is going to be a lot of fun. :ussrcry

benjipwns

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skipped around to the end, don't see it said who won, this is just like the Peterson/Zizek debate, when are we going to get a simple answer on which is better?!? did they not even keep track of points?

glad they pulled out Kennedy, get errybody up in there

Kara

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"Let a thousand flowers bloom . . . and those thousand flowers were capitalist enterprises!" :rofl :rofl :rofl

shosta

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Just starting these (thanks Dmitri Dmitriyevich) but before I do I want to say that between this, the Bernie town hall, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez mania, things are looking bright in the war of ideas, combrehs. Building social fascism together is going to be a lot of fun. :ussrcry
Yeah, with any luck, the democratic socialists will be at least as successful as George McGovern this time around

spoiler (click to show/hide)


Ah, well, maybe next decade.
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Kara

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 :lol Is literally every person on the panel going to dunk on the ancap?

shosta

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you call it dunking, I call it SHOOK by PURE FREEDOM :punch
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benjipwns

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usually what happens when people's precious state jackboot is even hypothetically removed from their necks, they lash out and turn violent

see, also: Marx at The Hague

Kara

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alright all done. on the whole it felt kinda liberal vs. conservative where the conservatives work the crowd with rhetorical theatrics while the other side has a bookish professor trying to win a war with a list of facts.

anyway, here's the dramatis personae review:

bianca "dsa small and medium-sized enterprise caucus" cunningham: you unionized a workplace which is more than i'm ever going to do but at least i've never said, "we need socialism so people can start small businesses" on a fox business debate about socialism

dickie "i didn't create the show law & order" wolff: courageously argued for unpopular things like dengism, the nazi federal republic of germany, or cuba not being a model socialist state by patiently reciting lists of facts

herman "remember when i quoted pokemon" cain: it felt like they stopped letting you talk at a certain point, let the man cook! as dmitri dmitriyevich already mentioned it seems like he literally doesn't believe homeless people exist

the legion of doom:

pom guy: margaret thatcher was a capitalist even though she literally never owned any means of production, welcome to the desert of the real
cavuto: i 100% believe you are very sincere when you argue that regulation of the private sector is actually good / necessary evil
kennedy: go bruins!!!!!!!!!!!!!! fuck $c
lou dobbs: i was with you when you said human rights are a bourgeois conceit and the nazi frg export economy isn't actually replicable but you quickly went off the rails from there. a stopped clock really is right twice a day i guess.


Kara

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SMB-ianca :lol :lol

Unrelated: :dead :dead :dead


Kara

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https://features.propublica.org/ransomware/ransomware-attack-data-recovery-firms-paying-hackers/

This story has so many cliches (even down to the sketchy Israeli professing to have intelligence bona fides) that it probably belongs in the late stage capitalism thread but (1) it's longform while that's essentially a very niche outside link thread and (2) we gotta have our vegetables in here to offset all the candy.

Anyway, as someone who cannot board a plane without being flagged and searched by security it's nice to know the *Hans Gruber voice* American FBI can't do cybercrime. Also, it's kind of absurd that this economic activity which has no useful purpose whatsoever is being priced into all manner of goods and services that do. Markets, innit.

Kara

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Quote
Thousands of workers from the University of California waged a one-day strike Thursday and found some unexpected allies out on their picket lines.

In an unusual move for a presidential candidate, the campaign of Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) sent out targeted text messages and emails to its supporters in California a day ahead of the strike, urging them to join workers as they rallied against the university system in a labor dispute.

“Tens of thousands of workers in the University of California system are standing up this Thursday to stop the outsourcing and privatization of union jobs,” the email said. “We are hoping you can join these workers tomorrow.”

The note included an RSVP link and an address for a local picket.

Pop-Pop Socdem  :whew

When he doesn't get the nomination it's going to be lit when he gives his list to, uh, that youngster at AFL-CIO Social Media who's obviously an entryist instead of the Democratic nominee.

shosta

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When the messaging is just a hair's breadth away from rediscovering the role of the general strike as not just a tool for labor privileges within the business but also shaping national policy by holding services and industries hostage :lawd
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shosta

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this whole vid :lol curly, he's finally going full maoist
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Kara

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tbh the more time you spend on the American left the more likely it is that you end up a Trot (unpaid and unaware internship with the U.S. State Department), a Maoist (solving the problem of your chronic under and unemployment by being arrested and imprisoned for many years on federal weapons charges), or thinking the public library is socialism like SMB-ianca (join the DSA).

I've seen it happen so many times over the years, and the arch-yet-irrelevant theoretical argument in the DSA still is... how did The Nation amusingly term it in their article about Turing Police? Soft Maoists versus Diet Trots?

BisMarckie

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When you‘re saying Trotskyism, are you talking about the fourth international, the fifth international or a post structural Trotskyism? :sabu

Kara

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My favorite thing in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is that Heinlein tried to establish his story as taking place far in the future by having there be a Fifth International when Trots got us there way before line marriage became acceptable.

Kara

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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/17/health/antibiotics-oranges-florida.html

The anarchy of production trying to kill us all in new and interesting ways. :whew

Mandark

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Taken from the DC Metro... Red Line.


Kara

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"Lenin was a member of the Russian Social Democratic Labor Party until material conditions allowed for revolution," I say to myself as I stare in the mirror, not recognizing the DSA member before me. I'm growing out my beard in the manner of a Brooklynite. I'm extremely excited to campaign for a candidate in the Democratic Party's presidential primary. I'm extremely excited to participate in my local's brake light clinic soon. I no longer know who I am and I feel like the ghost of a total stranger.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Brake light stuff is a demonstrable material benefit and perfectly fine. Don't mind me.
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Kara

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Quote
Bolsonaro has publically been pro-weapon and police brutality. He signed a decree early May, relaxing rules of carrying weapons for collectors, hunters, and sports shooters, known by the acronym CAC.

The CACs can carry loaded weapons on the streets which were not allowed previously.

 :hitler

Kara

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Linking this jeremiad is #problematic and if you want to cancel me or critically support me for doing so then I understand.

https://medium.com/@stephensrl20/socialism-deferred-how-dsa-failed-in-the-fight-against-sexual-violence-racism-3ca541333d60

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Shout out to SMB-ianca and @turing_police's favorite member of the U.S. Imperialism Caucus Jason Schulmann getting name dropped in here.
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