Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.

[Kara]

they actually ended up having Marianne Williamson on Chapo and she seems totally nice and pretty normal actually.. and they're talking to her about idealism vs  materialism

Serious observations:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

In the early 00s there was this obsession in the commentariat (forgive the bourgeois phraseology) with fielding candidates that voters "could see themselves having a beer with" which was of course somehow exemplified by a Yale alumnus from an old New England family that was prominent in business and politics (no relation, surely!) because he couldn't speak English and pretended he was Texan.

In certain respects Marianne Mindset feels like a throwback to that, as if 2008 to today didn't happen. Except instead of a beer she's the kind of candidate the coastal managerial class (again with the bourgeois phraseology -ed.) Democrat could see themselves having a California Cab with as they wistfully reminisce about the good old days when love was free but all you needed was love and Dr. King did the nonviolence which swept away white minority rule forever.

I also got a powerful "this person could stand in a church and talk to voters" vibe but honestly does that really matter anymore? Donald Trump is president and the people who are very passionate about their imaginary friend think he's some kind of biblical fulfillment instead of Mammon literally walking the Earth. Probably, at least insofar in mobilizing Democratic voters.

The starkest part of the interview was when she said that there was only 1 logical thing to take away from the Kennedy assassinations, the assassination of Martin Luther King, and the Kent State massacre: shut up and move along. I know it's en vogue to dunk on Boomers, and JFKKK is at best a problematic fav, but, like, my parents would tell me stories about burning down a bank on-campus at [university name redacted] and all I did in university was read like a fucking nerd, post on NeoGAF, and care about NCAA sports.

[close]

Unserious but still true observations:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Chapo boys going in hard on me with the Girls at Our Best! clip at the end. Fair play.

Marianne Mindset going in hard on me with: saying we need revolution (agree!), that it needs to be peaceful (*raising voice so as to be clearly overheard by domestic surveillance* of course I agree!), quoting Muḥammad 'Aṭā, discussing stamocap in pretty explicit terms instead of hand-wringing about crony capitalism while taking as much money from finance as humanly possible, and, uh talking about Marx while conspicuously avoiding the socialist label. (I died when she thought they were talking about her when they were actually talking about Bernie and she suddenly snapped out of chill mindset like the Shaq "I sleep / I wake" meme.)

[close]

Final verdict:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I can't in good conscience support someone who says things such as, "The American Revolution was a revolution against aristocracy," or, "The police and fire departments are socialism," but I wish her all the best in the primary. In an ideal world she would be a prominent politician from a vaguely center-left party that we'd all sneer at for being too idealistic and feckless in the Congress of Soviets of Soviet America. But, alas, this is le meilleur des mondes possibles.

[close]

[Kara]

Big mood...

https://twitter.com/half_orc_/status/1143965873411108865

[toku]

big bless up energy

[benjipwns]

Not to veer away from (my) sociopolitical angst but this had me

I didn't know.John Stossel was on this wave now.

https://twitter.com/adamjohnsonNYC/status/1138165329195163649

I want to circle around to this. I was skimming The Smear by Sharyl Attkisson (most famous for CBS telling her to shut up about Fast and Furious and her saying "it's about family!" on conservative free and independently funded media) and it's mostly dumb gibberish except for two things.

1. She really fucking hates David Brock. Like personally. Like, if I was him, and I saw her in a parking garage, I'd totally hide. Bitch is gonna kill him.

2. The chapter on transactional reporting is one of those true skepticism/contrarian moments for someone who has seemingly never really questioned their own world. This brings me back to Stossel because before he turned into shitty YouTube takes, before he was doing his shitty Libertarian 101 garbage, but just before he went full in on skepticism/contrarianism in politics only, he had a period where he was ANGRY at mostly himself and his career. One of his books is actually about this. When he came to realize how companies, campaigns, etc. essentially hand delivered him or directed him to stories that he won awards and praise for and so on, that pissed him off and he went hard into debunking scams, investigating credit card companies, getting beat up by wrestlers, etc. before expanding that into politics and then just going the same route as Penn with it only boring and less tall.

This chapter is kinda like that, apparently her moment of realization is I guess there was a frenzy of stories in Politico, The Hill, The NYT, etc. about some infighting between two pro-Hillary PACs back in 2015 I don't remember at all (yes, it involved David Brock) and literally everyone she knew at these places couldn't stop talking about it and what a great get each story in it was, one bragged that it had obtained a copy of THE ACTUAL RESIGNATION LETTER, and there were something like 56 stories published on this. Then the two PACs made up and focused on the rising threat of Bernie. And it was like it never happened, none of those stories mattered, it wasn't news, she couldn't find anyone outside the orbit who had even heard of it. Also she was working on a story about government contracting with a colleague and a Senator's office suddenly hands her colleague a pre-written story where the SENATOR helped lead to uncover some stupid random overpayment or something. And their editor made them lede with that and just shove anything else they had at the end of the story.

There's an amusing second-hand story about Politico and Gawker apparently fighting over the right to get an exclusive Chelsea Clinton interview, with them progressively agreeing to greater and greater restrictions on what can be asked and then published to top the other.

Maybe best or worst is she tells about how she gave a speech and Q&A to a group of students/interns both in Congress/the government and in media who were in DC for their first time. And one student straight up asks her "let's say we had some dirt on somebody bad, how would we best get that to you to publish?" And she says something like "I don't really do that kind of reporting, it's more investigative" And another goes, "oh, so let's say it's a big story that needs to be covered or whatever"

Anyway, I preferred that Stossel. That wrestling thing wasn't the only time he was roughed up, I can't seem to find an ABC clip or YouTube video, but there was some shady loan company he was exposing and the guy running it pushes some button in the conference room Stossel is "interviewing" him in and these three giant guys come in and help "escort" Stossel into the parking lot for his own safety.

[benjipwns]

wow, the book literally came true again:

[Great Rumbler]

read settlers

[Kara]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._K._Stalin

No wonder all the Communist votes collapsed in the election this year.

[benjipwns]

so because you guys said you were doing it, I sorta re-read/re-skimmed Settlers yesterday and I remembered how much I hate how it's written more than anything, it's meandering, seems like three seperate people wrote each paragraph and worst of all, it's broadly setup in chronological order but internally and specifically it can't even recount a single event without jumping all over, and also it has but yet at the same time loses that "tone" that hard-Left stuff like BA has where it's like someone faking what they think academic writing sounds like but it's really just putting all kinds of shit in the passive voice while passive-aggressively tut-tutting you the reader for your complicity in the crimes of historical forces, also the part about multiple authors really comes across when it swerves from detailed pre-colonial history, seemingly picks up stakes and books for the post-Reconstruction at massive speeds and then proceeds to spend sixty chapters recounting the internal politics of the two dominant labor forces and its interaction with the FDR era Democratic Party over a fifteen year period

perhaps weirdly, and since I haven't commented on it before as a work, although probably not weirdly since you guys know me, the content isn't really anything I have any kind of qualms with and most of it I was familiar with in slightly different forms, lots of classic Amerikkkan anarchist/even "right-libertarian" critique covers the same stuff but instead of the whole "settlers" angle just says "government and its allies" which means cacs anyway... so basically yes, all my critique is basically stylistic complaining more than anything of substance which is stupid, but it's all I got ya know

also for it being the whole hook of the work, the whole settlers/Euro-Amerikan/Afrikan thing is totally inconsistent and poorly setup for being repeated with every chapter and I hope I'm not the only one who kinda was frustrated by this lol

I give it 3.8 million square miles of pristine untouched land free for American patriots to settle out of five for J... J probably stands for something, but I dunno what, Sakai

[Kara]

*Hulk Hogan theme music starts*

I am a Euro-Amerikan
Fight to enslave my fellow man
I am a Euro-Amerikan
Fight for what's white
Fight for your fief!

[benjipwns]

also I had totally forgotten the stuff about Japan late in the book that's such an element of when it was originally written

[jakefromstatefarm]

So Ive only skimmed parts of the book and some reviews but...

It seems like at least half of the appeal is based on its being an indulgent hate-read (like, hating the content the books talking about, not the book itself). You know when sometimes someone sets out to give a completely plausible account or interpretation of something and then mucks up or even fudges the details, or applies some kind of explanatory lens that’s dumb and wrong? But you can’t just throw it in the bushes because it’s telling a really important story that never gets told, at least not accessibly or concisely. That’s p much where I am with settlers.

[benjipwns]

well, let's not get too uh... professional in our stone casting... about the quality of what readings people put on syllabi

 

[BisMarckie]

well, let's not get too uh... professional in our stone casting... about the quality of what readings people put on syllabi

 

I have heard from far less reputable people than me, since I would certainly never do such a thing, that some syllabi are chosen by how much time and effort it would take by the lecturer to familiarize himself with the literature.

[shosta]

When Kara first told me to read settlers I didn't know it was a meme because I'm not always-online and I actually read it, thinking it was a serious suggestion. When I PM'd him as much a week later to tell him I was radicalized I'm sure he was both surprised and embarrassed for me

[BisMarckie]

Some assholes in academia also only put the untranslated Latin edition of a book in the syllabus because they know nobody is going to read it anyway,

[benjipwns]

the problem with a lot of more, let's say radical, works has more to do with what the courses are intended to be in general, like I can't think of anything under our 600 level in poli sci that you'd want to stick Settlers in as even optional, history would be easier, but still you run into the narrow specific focus of it

though some of that is a bias towards teaching the known works I suppose

I generally try to avoid piling on the books for more varied articles, chapters, etc. and I think I would want to find another work with the same sentiments and ideas if not specifically these rather than plucking out a part of Settlers, I admit I have not looked at any J Sakai articles though, it's highly likely they have already written one

[BisMarckie]

I have to put together the syllabus months in advance, so not knowing how much prior knowledge the students have or how the engagement level is, leads itself to just choosing the standard fare. Unless it‘s a passion project of mine, I just stick to the canon.

[BisMarckie]

I offered shosh a position in our PhD program and he never got back to me.

Probably for the better: After further self radicalization he only would have tried another reboot of the RAF and would have gotten me in trouble.

[shosta]

[...]

I generally try to avoid piling on the books for more varied articles, chapters, etc. and I think I would want to find another work with the same sentiments and ideas if not specifically these rather than plucking out a part of Settlers, I admit I have not looked at any J Sakai articles though, it's highly likely they have already written one

Lol at you taking seriously literature written by a member of the Freedom Road Socialist Organization, especially one writing under a pseudonym. The tone is the point, and contrary to what jake is hypothesizing, a significant portion of the enjoyment. Since you skimmed it you didn't even touch on the innumerable errata, like misattributing a quote to Lincoln (it was someone else in his campaign, in his proxy), or getting some numbers wrong. I fact-checked this book religiously while I was reading it and found the analysis of some sources to be... dishonest at best. But none of that is important, the book is still fun, illuminating to the uneducated, etc. etc.

If I could pinpoint my least favorite part of the book besides the totally undisciplined and inconsistent style it would be being absolutely uncharitable to the anti-Imperialist League, of all organizations... white men truly are the devil

[shosta]

I offered shosh a position in our PhD program and he never got back to me.

your country might have deported my PMs

[benjipwns]

Lol at you taking seriously literature written by a member of the Freedom Road Socialist Organization, especially one writing under a pseudonym.

i'm not seeing the difference here from much of the canon

[benjipwns]

I also forgot to mention the whole part about refusing to refer to the Kingdom of Hawai'i as a state, a position I have advocated on this here internet many times.

[Kara]

When Kara first told me to read settlers I didn't know it was a meme because I'm not always-online and I actually read it, thinking it was a serious suggestion. When I PM'd him as much a week later to tell him I was radicalized I'm sure he was both surprised and embarrassed for me

I felt bad in the sense that I had taken something from you without considering my actions fully beforehand, that's all. I play it chill and skeptical because those are good things, but I was also enculturated by a pretty hard line organization too.

Need to finish that Mandel piece you sent still, sorry!

[shosta]

Which one, the scathing ideological critique of Yugoslavian market socialism (), or "In Defense of Socialist Planning"? Neither of those are a waste of your time imo

[Kara]

A thing I really like about Settlers is that it's actually what Gramsci was talking about when he said there needed to be proletarian scholarship (unless the J. in J. Sakai stands for J.P. Morgan) but it makes the kind of overeducated, squatter Euro-Amerikans who claim to be Gramscians recoil in horror.

[Kara]

Which one, the scathing ideological critique of Yugoslavian market socialism (), or "In Defense of Socialist Planning"? Neither of those are a waste of your time imo

The Yugoslav one. I did read the other one and generally agree with your assessment.

[curly]

Kara/curly/shosta, y'all read any of the Chinese New Left 新左派 ? I have some Minqi Li wishlisted for reading later

I'm kind of done reading analysis of China by baizuo

Forgot to reply to your original post but chuangcn.org has some interesting stuff. I liked their history of the "socialist developmental regime" and this inteview. Also I found this image on their website

[shosta]

Capitulation
By the mid-1980s, it was clear in both Washington and Moscow that the Soviet Union was in trouble. It was not that the system of public ownership and planning was not working. On the contrary, recognizing the advantages of the Soviet system, the United States itself had emulated it to stimulate innovation in its own economy.

Now this... this is something I can hate read.

Anyway what I was referring to was this bad boy

[team filler]

https://twitter.com/TheRealOJ32/status/1144407744427859968

[Kara]

That's a good interview, I read it awhile back but never bookmarked it. :'(

[team filler]

https://twitter.com/TuffLikeHuff/status/1144747118139256839

[Tripon]

Is the read Settlers meme the same thing as people telling me to read Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States (which I did because it was a required book in undergrad.)

https://www.historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshistory.html

[toku]

Marianne just doesn't want us to be wage cucks



#bigorbenergy2020

[Joe Molotov]

We just need to ascend to the level where material goods are no longer needed.

[benjipwns]

Is the read Settlers meme the same thing as people telling me to read Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States (which I did because it was a required book in undergrad.)

https://www.historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshistory.html

Yeah, but it's like if the book wasn't totally lame and awful.

The Note: This great book should really be read by everyone. It is difficult to describe why it so great because it both teaches and inspires. You really just have to read it. We think it is so good that it demands to be as accessible as possible. Once you've finished it, we're sure you'll agree. In fact, years ago, we would offer people twenty dollars if they read the book and didn't think it was completely worth their time. Of all the people who took us up on it, no one collected.

shit I could have made twenty bucks

Actually, that's a cool site, when I mentioned that I was familiar with a lot of the specific stuff from Settlers it's because of some of the sources on there, maybe a good many. (I didn't read the titles of everything listed in each section.) Though as I have probably mentioned many times I am a big fan of revisionist history in general and have always sought it out and I sometimes forget that quirk.

Speaking of A People's History (the graphic novel edition is hilariously sycophantic of Zinn) and revisionist histories, there is a "response" from conservatives called A Patriot's History that I read thanks to a conservative roommate who bought it, was pretty enjoyable, the Vietnam section was especially enlightening. To be slightly seriously complementary of them, they both did a sequel a few years later to bring history "up to date" which a lot of popular histories forget to do and they also rewrote the two halves to spread across the books better and contain more details. Often you tend to see popular focused works go the other way. (Like the People's History getting smaller and smaller versions to get into as many school grades/etc. as possible, plus that graphic novel I mentioned.) Actually, I should probably check it out and see what the true patriotic history of the Iraq War was.

[benjipwns]

http://2020.historyisaweapon.com/

Who is running in the 2020 Democratic Primary and what is the corporate media keeping from you?
Trump is a human garbage fire, but many of the democratic primary candidates are also pretty trashy. Instead of burying the dirt behind image consultants, public relation flacks, and the corporate media, we here at History Is A Weapon are hoping to offer a one stop shop, so you don't have to wade through the nonsense, and you can find the absolute best reporting and takedowns on the various candidates. That way, when your low information cousin discovers he really like "Mayor Pete," you can check in and find the best ahem material to read up on and score some valueless internet points on your facebook wall.

Name: Marianne Williamson
Who? California congressman, huh?

Website:marianne2020.com

Short Answer: New Age progressive who you will never hear about again after reading this sentence.

wow, so wrong already

Name: Senator Amy Klobuchar
Who? Minnesota senator, strong right arm

Website: klobuchar.senate.gov

Short Answer: Milquetoast jerk of a boss. Great if you want someone who republicans love.

[Kara]

Is the read Settlers meme the same thing as people telling me to read Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States (which I did because it was a required book in undergrad.)

https://www.historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshistory.html

To answer this question in full requires recounting the history of Something Awful's Laissez's Faire which I'm not able to do.

In short though, it's not a meme, but the larger circle in which internet Maoism resides interprets it as one. That gives you certain latitude to inject it into the #discourse because you have the plausible deniability that you were "just doing some memes."

[toku]

https://www.polygraph.info/a/fact-check-russia-metal-gear/30022159.html

[shosta]

I'm watching the National Summit on Gentrification (in Newark, NJ) and one of the speakers had a Mao suit and a Pan Africa pin

This whole conference is the most radical shit I've seen on C-SPAN since... ever

[Kara]

benji help

https://www.haymarketbooks.org/books/1319-marx-at-the-arcade

[shosta]

What do they even want now in HK? They withdrew the bill and apologized.

[Tripon]

What do they even want now in HK? They withdrew the bill and apologized.

They want the mayor to resign since they don't trust her.

[benjipwns]

benji help

https://www.haymarketbooks.org/books/1319-marx-at-the-arcade

"Marx at the Arcade is an important, brilliant and timely read that reveals the oft-ignored lives of overworked and exploited game workers, as well as the rise of the global Game Workers Unite movement that is fighting for change. Placing games within the context of a wider cultural and political struggle, Woodcock makes a compelling case for combating the toxic and reactionary elements of games culture, and pushing games towards a more positive, radical role in the world." —Karn Bianco, Games Workers Unite

"Combining the unalloyed enthusiasm of the gamer with the critical gaze of the historical materialist, Jamie Woodcock's book cracks open the console to reveal the struggles over value, labour and the meaning of play that haunt the world of videogames. Even readers who last played a videogame in an arcade will gain much from this lucid and combative exploration of the industry that organizes the "free time" of countless millions."—Alberto Toscano, Reader in Critical Theory, Goldsmiths, University of London, author of Fanaticism: On the Uses of an Idea

“In this highly readable, up-to-the-minute counter-guide to videogame work and play, Jamie Woodcock skillfully breaks play out of the “magic circle,” not only revealing capitalism’s shaping influence on digital game culture but also restoring a political perspective on games as a site of struggle. Whether revisiting game history, analyzing individual games, unpacking the distinctiveness of the game commodity, or reporting on the increasingly contested working conditions of game developers, Woodcock richly illustrates the use value of Marxian concepts to the critical study of game media.” —Greig de Peuter, co-author of Games of Empire: Global Capitalism and Video Games

spoiler (click to show/hide)

“Jamie Woodcock shows us what call-centers can tell us about bleakness and resistance in the modern workplace.” —VICE

[close]

[jakefromstatefarm]

fuck I saw the url and thought it was gonna be the Paris arcades

[Kara]

fuck I saw the url and thought it was gonna be the Paris arcades

 

[Kara]

I'm only slightly misrepresenting them when I say this, but it's DSA's position that their blog is akin to a public laptop left open and logged in at the Brooklyn coffee shop.

Accordingly their foreign policy postings there are wildly incoherent and contradictory, representative of certain cliques more than anything. I got powerful Jason Schulman energy from that one, for example. (From my recollection he was prone to "signing his tweets" as the kids would say though.)

[shosta]

Fact check:

If you belong to an organization run with democratic centralism you will be expelled from DSA by the letter of its laws.

Therefore the undiscipline is a goal. Mission accomplished

[Kara]

If you actually read their laws that's one of the only ones that has nothing to do with administration too.

[team filler]

https://twitter.com/aubrey031018/status/1145884199569768451

[benjipwns]

[BisMarckie]

Democrat town is lame.

See you at the Strip‘n‘Poke Her Club guys.

[Great Rumbler]

Apparently both Dems and Reps love them some Junk in the Box, though.

[team filler]

https://twitter.com/mywifecameback/status/1146019719193014272

[Brehvolution]

https://twitter.com/mywifecameback/status/1146019719193014272

It's just a take out box.
https://www.facebook.com/dave.barnhart/posts/10156549406811031

"The unborn" are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don't resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don't ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don't need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don't bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. It's almost as if, by being born, they have died to you. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus but actually dislike people who breathe.

Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.

[Kara]

Isn't the proletarian / bourgeois divide a binary?

[Crash Dummy]

https://twitter.com/anachmn/status/1145977349017657345

Not since Dilbert has truth been spoken to power in soulless work settings.

i'm out

[shosta]

my contribution to this thread is randomly spamming Parenti shit

[VomKriege]

What do they even want now in HK? They withdrew the bill and apologized.

I think it's pretty clear what they don't want. Let's not be willfully naive about the PRC letting things be as they stand. And as far I know the bill status is officially "suspended", not "withdrawn" yet.

[Tripon]

https://twitter.com/MattBors/status/1146179792061923328

[Kara]

These crossover events are getting out of control.

https://twitter.com/sunraysunray/status/1146260189294862338