Author Topic: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.  (Read 226147 times)

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benjipwns

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I finally found the Praxis: Suicide Squad (DC Comics, 1987, colorized by Carl Gafford)











spoiler (click to show/hide)
Pravda is not the newspaper, but a member of The People's Heroes (fourth picture, though she's not shown) who has the power of CASTING ILLUSIONS!

The other members of The People's Heroes are:
Bolshoi - superspeed
Hammer - superstrength, also he has a hammer
Molotov - fat guy, who can...blow him self up? i dont
Sickle - superstrength, also she has a sickle
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VomKriege

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Well, they name dropped Bulgakov.
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shosta

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I love ha joon chang and steve keen because they have entire careers based on hating on capitalism in practice and then stopping at the last minute like fuck it... Don't wanna go too far
When it comes to Keen, "last minute" is not an exaggeration.
Quote
Peter McCormack: Yes, and I will share that out in the show notes. It’s a long read. I’d probably need a couple of days to really digest it in detail and ask you, but what was quite interesting that came out was something that you quoted that Minsky said. That, “Capitalism is inherently flawed. It has to have flaws to function as a capitalist system.” Therefore, what is the alternative?

Steve Keen: The alternative is recognising you’ve got a flawed system. I think one of the great weaknesses of the human species is we have this belief of a perfect world, and you find it in every … Every culture has its Valhalla. Every society has this ideal world where everything happens perfectly, a bit Garden of Eden, etc., etc. It’s something in our psyche that wants something perfect. What economic theory, Neo-Classical theory promised was a perfect world on this planet. You get sucked into this belief in perfection.

Steve Keen: What Minsky is saying is get used to it. The real world is not a porcelain doll. The real world’s going to have pimples. In the case of the financial sector, what Minsky actually said, if you elaborate that quote, what he said was, “Capitalism is inherently flawed, being prone to booms, slumps, and crises. These flaws are due to characteristics a sophisticated capitalistic economy must have. Such a system will be capable of generating signals that induce an increased desire to invest and of financing that investment.” That’s the real link.

Steve Keen: You want capitalists. The good thing about the capitalist system is innovation and change. You want them to want to be investing. When they do it, the income distribution signal will change to make it worth their while, or looking like worthwhile to invest. They’ll get euphoric about those expectations, as Minsky argued. They’ll extrapolate forward good times and see fantastic times in the future. Then to do it, they’ve got to borrow money. When they borrow money, they accumulate debt, and the process of both borrowing money adds to demand, accumulating debt adds to a lock on the system, that when that inter distribution turns against them again, they’ve accumulated additional debt and you can be in a serious crisis.

Steve Keen: You recognise that mechanism exists and you say, “What other mechanism can we add to counter it?”
tfw Minsky's parents were Mensheviks :beli

edit: later in this interview, he dunks on the subjective theory of value :lol and says that a model of value has to be objective! In every other interview (and his Manifesto) he always manages to give a quick shoutout to daddy Marx, too. Steve, you are so close! It is tantalizing.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2019, 04:23:16 AM by shosta »
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Kara

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The guy who started Live Aid runs a company through Mauritius to suck money out of Africa now. :lol They don't even try anymore.

https://www.icij.org/investigations/mauritius-leaks/treasure-island-leak-reveals-how-mauritius-siphons-tax-from-poor-nations-to-benefit-elites/

Kara

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Kara

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Inspired to make a meme while looking for an old political cartoon (like from the early 20th century).


Mandark

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Evangelion 4.0: I Will (Not) Read Settlers



Kara

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Glenn Greenwald on Chapo. I still hate his voice, his contrarianism, and his fans but man, he did some good work with the Lula scandal. Great listen so far. I don't know too much about  politics but it sounds like a certain class are able to construct legal bodies and '''''''''investigatory forces''''''''' without too much trouble.

I couldn't help but think of the departed Assimilate when he described the archetypal Bolsonaro voter.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 01:39:44 PM by Kara »

Kara

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Yeah, it reminded me of older episodes of the show. (At least older free episodes.)

A thing that kind of struck me is how he pointed out that political corruption follows democratization as a matter of course; it's a necessity to mediate various conflicts and inexperience. Of course it never goes away in some places like the U.S. but that's a different can of worms.

Would have liked a brief digression about how Brazil's political system was designed to be dysfunctional after democratization to ward off seizures of power but turning the tide against "governments built on the premise of distrust" should probably start with their consequences in the core (oligarchy, unaccountability, et cetera) before the periphery and semi-periphery.

Anyway:

Calling Dilma a badass for being a Marxist guerrilla. :leon

Calling his husband's party dogmatic. :kermit

Realizing that he doesn't know Felix and Virgil were responsible for the Carl Diggler podcast he went on. Chapo got better opsec than the NSA. :sabu
« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 02:16:17 PM by Kara »

toku

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here you go comrade

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I used to have a link for the patreon feed you could just plug into vlc but i cant find it rn/remember what it is even though its still tied to my vlc
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VomKriege

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Inspired to make a meme while looking for an old political cartoon (like from the early 20th century).

(Image removed from quote.)

Link to your patreon for furry commissions ?
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OnlyRegret

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OK, the fuck is Settlers? Why are y'all so into it?


Tripon

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OK, the fuck is Settlers? Why are y'all so into it?

http://readsettlers.org/text-index.html

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I still only skimmed parts of it.  :doge
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benjipwns

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shosta

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READ KARA'S TAG
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Tripon

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OK, the fuck is Settlers? Why are y'all so into it?

http://readsettlers.org/text-index.html

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I still only skimmed parts of it.  :doge
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Yeah OK I know what it is now and I'm too lazy to read all that #YesMandark

Quote
Come listen to Kyle Stegerwald give a summary and thoughts on the book, "Settlers: The Mythology of the White Proletariat from Mayflower to Modern" by J. Sakai. You never think about the American War for Independence again!

*disclaimer* The views of the speakers do not necessarily reflect the views of the Revolutionary Students Union as a whole. The RSU itself is non-tendency, but is firmly anti-capitalist. **Double Disclaimer** SDS does not endorse or reject any of the views and ideas put forward in this video. This video was an upload by an affiliate (Revolutionary Students' Union) that has since changed their name to Univ. of Utah SDS. **Double Disclaimer** SDS does not endorse or reject any of the views and ideas put forward in this video. This video was an upload by an affiliate (Revolutionary Students' Union) that has since changed their name to Univ. of Utah SDS.






Kara

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It's a racial history of the United States written by an autodidact worker who was a Maoist and an ethnic minority.

It's pretty mean-spirited but that's not unwarranted when it comes to U.S. history.


shosta

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #681 on: August 01, 2019, 01:34:45 AM »
SCMP :mynicca
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Kara

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #682 on: August 01, 2019, 01:52:55 AM »
Not going to attempt to forecast China but when the CPC had beef with Wal-Mart awhile back they surreptitiously unionized several stores, something I think we can all agree is no small task.

shosta

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #683 on: August 01, 2019, 02:00:57 AM »
I wouldn't last a week
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shosta

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #684 on: August 01, 2019, 02:13:42 AM »
I wouldn't last a week


WE DEMAND TO KNOW THE TRUTH
XI JINPING, WHAT IS YOUR SAFE WORD?
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Great Rumbler

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #685 on: August 01, 2019, 04:59:03 PM »
:jeb
dog

HardcoreRetro

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #686 on: August 02, 2019, 12:42:13 PM »
Why's this thread have a picture of Winnie the Pooh in a gimp costume?

Great Rumbler

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #687 on: August 02, 2019, 05:52:44 PM »
Why's this thread have a picture of Winnie the Pooh in a gimp costume?

Don't praxis-shame.
dog

shosta

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #688 on: August 02, 2019, 05:58:29 PM »
Why's this thread have a picture of Winnie the Pooh in a gimp costume?
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Kara

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #689 on: August 02, 2019, 09:19:42 PM »
Avakianites at it again :dead

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jul/19/los-angeles-police-informant-anti-trump-activist-protest

Quote
During an 11 October meeting, the informant approached Antonio and said, “Are we gonna do like any freeway things again…or major things like that?”, according to a transcript of a secret recording.

“I’m not sure,” Antonio responded.

The informant then said he was interested in joining future activities: “I thought the freeway thing was pretty good.”

 :lol I hope this goober fleeced the LAPD.

Anyway, freedom of speech, assembly, and worship, 100% real things in AmeriKKKa am I right.

Great Rumbler

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #690 on: August 02, 2019, 09:36:46 PM »
Quote
In one case, police noted in a write-up that one of the activists was caught on the recording making a joke about the president, saying, “That’s an awfully hot coffeepot, should I drop it on Donald Trump?”

Thankfully, the tireless work of the LAPD managed to foil this serious plot in time. :salute
dog

Kara

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #691 on: August 03, 2019, 01:17:21 AM »
We have detected a login with your Ubisoft account from the following country and IP:

    Country: Venezuela
    IP address: 201.***.***.118


Damn, the compradores are finally coming after me. :heh

BisMarckie

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #692 on: August 03, 2019, 09:42:21 AM »


:juche


Rufus

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #694 on: August 03, 2019, 01:21:47 PM »
https://www.talkingpoliticspodcast.com/blog/2019/175-talking-politics-guide-to-the-gilded-age

Quote
We talk to historian Sarah Churchwell about the Gilded Age in late nineteenth century America and the comparisons with today. Rampant inequality, racial conflict, fights over immigration, technological revolution: is Trump's America repeating the pattern or is it something new?

BisMarckie

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #695 on: August 03, 2019, 01:40:44 PM »
I thought combining the Bire‘s two favorite things, Juche and Yugoslavia, would net me more likes. :fbm

Kara

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #696 on: August 03, 2019, 01:43:33 PM »
:whew benji's real YouTube channel is lit y'all.







Kara

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #697 on: August 03, 2019, 01:44:34 PM »
I thought combining the Bire‘s two favorite things, Juche and Yugoslavia, would net me more likes. :fbm

Mistake rectified!

benjipwns

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #698 on: August 03, 2019, 01:45:46 PM »

curly

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #699 on: August 03, 2019, 04:35:25 PM »
Avakianites at it again :dead

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jul/19/los-angeles-police-informant-anti-trump-activist-protest

Are there any known cases of cops infiltrating the DSA? Sort of the ultimate insult if they haven't bothered

Tripon

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VomKriege

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #701 on: August 03, 2019, 05:39:29 PM »
Her Punisher film was alright.
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toku

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #702 on: August 03, 2019, 06:46:54 PM »

VomKriege

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #703 on: August 04, 2019, 04:54:52 PM »
Yo settlin' peepz.
Yesterday I was settling my own business as a settler when that girl came and try to settle me! What the settle ? Stop gold settling you settler !
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shosta

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #704 on: August 04, 2019, 05:23:48 PM »


:rofl  :heartbeat :heartbeat :heartbeat
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Himu

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #705 on: August 04, 2019, 05:25:01 PM »
Still no left libertarian option in America.

Please rebrand libertarianism so it’s no longer associated with crooks like McAfee.
IYKYK

BisMarckie

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #706 on: August 04, 2019, 05:44:02 PM »
#Benji/stost 2020 :american

shosta

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OnlyRegret

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #708 on: August 04, 2019, 05:56:16 PM »
Feeding children food instead of arguing for their right to participate in the wage labor market doesn't sound very libertarian :camby

if we don't let children starve then parents starving children is incentivized

Himu

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #709 on: August 04, 2019, 06:10:57 PM »
Honest question: Why should any of us be socialists? I used to be socialist. I still agree with basically everything Bernie is saying. So maybe I still am. But social democracy might be as far as I want to go. I used to be libertarian socialist - an anarchist basically. The libertarian views stuck, the socialist views didn't. But given my exposure to socialists and communists why would I want them in charge? I've seen how socialists act when you go against their ideology. They demand such purity that when I study history it's very easy for me to come to understand why far leftists always purge their enemies with fire, blood, and bullets even if they were originally allies as seen by the social democrats and the bolsheviks.

Honestly, the SJWs demanding purity, et al and kicking me out of BLM for instance just because I thought,"maybe we shouldn't protest pride" has made me realize that if socialists did have power it would turn ugly indeed.

Convince me otherwise. I've never seen socialists sans social democrats espouse respect for human rights and things like free speech. On the contrary, often, they mock it. By mocking it, they show they don't value diversity in opinion and thought. That's where the purges start.

You guys keep talking socialism stuff on this board but I fear given my very direct experience with the far left that it'd turn into gulags at moments notice.
IYKYK

OnlyRegret

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #710 on: August 04, 2019, 06:16:01 PM »
Honest question: Why should any of us be socialists? I used to be socialist. I still agree with basically everything Bernie is saying. So maybe I still am. But social democracy might be as far as I want to go. I used to be libertarian socialist - an anarchist basically. The libertarian views stuck, the socialist views didn't. But given my exposure to socialists and communists why would I want them in charge? I've seen how socialists act when you go against their ideology. They demand such purity that when I study history it's very easy for me to come to understand why far leftists always purge their enemies with fire, blood, and bullets even if they were originally allies as seen by the social democrats and the bolsheviks.

Honestly, the SJWs demanding purity, et al and kicking me out of BLM for instance just because I thought,"maybe we shouldn't protest pride" has made me realize that if socialists did have power it would turn ugly indeed.

Convince me otherwise. I've never seen socialists sans social democrats espouse respect for human rights and things like free speech. On the contrary, often, they mock it. By mocking it, they show they don't value diversity in opinion and thought. That's where the purges start.

You guys keep talking socialism stuff on this board but I fear given my very direct experience with the far left that it'd turn into gulags at moments notice.

It's bizarre when cons were calling antifa/commies nazis. It is like everyone forgot the USSR existed and you don't need to be a nazi to be totalitarian or persecute opposition

Himu

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #711 on: August 04, 2019, 06:21:22 PM »
Antifa whackos are nuts. I lost a friend to antifa. I was apparently "hateful" and "turning the other cheek" by thinking "maybe it's not a good idea to go punching random people as it gives sympathy to their cause." We both agree the Richard Spencer's are poison but have different methods. But somehow I'm "hateful" for not willing random violence on people.

That's when I started to turn around on socialism: their tendency to talk about violence outright rather than as a last resort.

People can yap leftist crap all they want but they've got a good lot of explaining to most people why we should support much less trust them. And of course, they'll take that as an attack. Because they're authoritarians.
IYKYK

OnlyRegret

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #712 on: August 04, 2019, 06:26:12 PM »
Antifa whackos are nuts. I lost a friend to antifa. I was apparently "hateful" and "turning the other cheek" by thinking "maybe it's not a good idea to go punching random people as it gives sympathy to their cause." We both agree the Richard Spencer's are poison but have different methods. But somehow I'm "hateful" for not willing random violence on people.

That's when I started to turn around on socialism: their tendency to talk about violence outright rather than as a last resort.

My issue with it is the definition of nazi is entirely arbitrary now and is synonymous with person you don't agree with. Resulting in a mob that gives itself carte blanche to assault people they don't like as anyone opposed to them is clearly the bad guy. It is self righteous and a complex that they are always the ones in the right tuned to a belligerent degree.

Starts with something people agree with (spencer) and feedback loops to include varying people and propagates due to the catharsis the mob feels (beating randos).

Himu

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #713 on: August 04, 2019, 06:32:24 PM »
Antifa whackos are nuts. I lost a friend to antifa. I was apparently "hateful" and "turning the other cheek" by thinking "maybe it's not a good idea to go punching random people as it gives sympathy to their cause." We both agree the Richard Spencer's are poison but have different methods. But somehow I'm "hateful" for not willing random violence on people.

That's when I started to turn around on socialism: their tendency to talk about violence outright rather than as a last resort.

My issue with it is the definition of nazi is entirely arbitrary now and is synonymous with person you don't agree with. Resulting in a mob that gives itself carte blanche to assault people they don't like as anyone opposed to them is clearly the bad guy. It is self righteous and a complex that they are always the ones in the right tuned to a belligerent degree.

Starts with something people agree with (spencer) and feedback loops to include varying people and propagates due to the catharsis the mob feels (beating randos).

That's the worst of leftism: the mob mentality. There's merit in collectivism but when it gets to the point where there's emphasis on "we all need to think the same way", that's when the red flags start showing up. Don't get me wrong. All groups are like this. It's only human to do this and find an other and form an "us". But leftists, more than any ideology I've seen bar fascism and white supremacy, has a tendency to embrace this more than any ideology and I've personally witnessed it online and in real life.

Leftists scare me.

You can shame and mock "bubububu gulags" but I've seen exactly where their collectivist tendencies head toward - piety - and there's no amount of good points made, from the excesses capitalism to its sustainability, that can regain that trust once it's broken.
IYKYK

shosta

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OnlyRegret

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #715 on: August 04, 2019, 06:39:44 PM »
It's interesting how events shape people's stances differently.
You feel driven Libertarian, I feel pushed more Authoritarian, as I find security and order to be pressing concerns.


Himu

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #716 on: August 04, 2019, 06:49:39 PM »
It's interesting how events shape people's stances differently.
You feel driven Libertarian, I feel pushed more Authoritarian, as I find security and order to be pressing concerns.

The problem with authoritarianism is that states change. Rulers change. You can like authority be doled out on one group you dislike but what happens if the seasons change or the ruler changes and it's you on the firing end? This is precisely why when Trump won the presidency my trust in the state as an institution literally died overnight. Don't get me wrong, it's a valuable institution and unfortunately a necessary evil. But in America we have the potentiality of changing the state and the way it functions every few years. You can go from Obama to Trump and have most of Obama's legacy wiped out over just a few months. Do I trust in Trump's government to protect me? I bought a gun just a few months later after the revelation. That election was life changing and there is no going back.

Basically...

IYKYK

Himu

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #717 on: August 04, 2019, 06:55:15 PM »
See? None of that was said much less hinted at but you get a passive aggressive post that presumes free speech is perfect (this was never said) and other assumptions because you don't fully agree with their ideology. Like I said, piety.
IYKYK

OnlyRegret

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #718 on: August 04, 2019, 06:59:33 PM »
It's interesting how events shape people's stances differently.
You feel driven Libertarian, I feel pushed more Authoritarian, as I find security and order to be pressing concerns.

The problem with authoritarianism is that states change. Rulers change. You can like authority be doled out on one group you dislike but what happens if the seasons change or the ruler changes and it's you on the firing end? This is precisely why when Trump won the presidency my trust in the state as an institution literally died overnight. Don't get me wrong, it's a valuable institution and unfortunately a necessary evil. But in America we have the potentiality of changing the state and the way it functions every few years. You can go from Obama to Trump and have most of Obama's legacy wiped out over just a few months. Do I trust in Trump's government to protect me? I bought a gun just a few months later after the revelation. That election was life changing and there is no going back.

Basically...

(Image removed from quote.)

geez, I was literally thinking about LotGH when typing that, I should really watch that
the quote about "masses truly wanting an autocrat" came to mind

but yeah, the balancing act always comes down to the imagined just dictator, the noble noble, the sinless king, etc
power corrupts though

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #719 on: August 04, 2019, 07:16:48 PM »
I very much agree with Yang.

Democracy is the superior system.

Yeah, monarchy is faster because there's less cooks in the kitchen. But what happens when the just, good ruler has a child? What if their child is a despot? Although flawed, democracy just sounds a better system to me.

I also support Yang's making a new nation when the democratic state falls to its own excesses.

You should definitely watch LOGH. You'll see where you land by maybe episode 50.





So you're pro-Reinhard huh? Or just respect authority in general?
IYKYK