Author Topic: Game of Thrones Season 8, we can finally stop waiting on GURM (Read 160878 times)

agrajag · « **Reply #240 on:** April 30, 2019, 03:15:45 PM »

MMa all of the above happened because lazy writing required for everyone to act dumb to get to writers' desired conclusion. We are speculating on how ELSE it could have gone down.

MMaRsu · « **Reply #241 on:** April 30, 2019, 03:17:38 PM »

Ok yeah well, whatever. This shit aint fucking Lost.

Bad writing

. Give me a break.

Yes characters survived that shouldnt have. Yes Arya makes a crazy dash+jump. She could have been hiding around there.

But I guess that's impossible because it's all lazy writing.

I'm done debating it

agrajag · « **Reply #242 on:** April 30, 2019, 03:19:27 PM »

Is thinking that the schlocky HBO sword and armor fantasy show has poor writing really that controversial of an opinion to you? Really?

BobFromPikeCreek · « **Reply #243 on:** April 30, 2019, 03:20:45 PM »

To be fair, if you didn't expect a ton of deus ex machina from a show with 900 hanging threads and 6 eps left to wrap it all up you were setting yourself up for disappointment.

agrajag · « **Reply #244 on:** April 30, 2019, 03:22:03 PM »

Quote from: MMaRsu on April 30, 2019, 03:15:07 PM

Quote from: agrajag on April 30, 2019, 03:10:35 PM
Theon had years of legit military training and has been through tons of battles as well as being an expert bowman. He only "ran at him for 15 seconds and telegraphed his exact movement" because that's what the shitty writing required.

The shitty writing also required for Bran to be protected by ragtag team of cannon fodder while Jon and Dany get lost in the snow storm for 30 minutes.

Wasn't that Bran's plan? He knew whoever he had there to defend him wouldn't do shit in the end. He foresaw it.

Dany and Jon got lost in the storm because they didn't account for the storm.

But sure just blame it all on shitty writing man, it's easy. Why even continue to watch the show if the writing is so shitty? '

Either way I dont give a fuck, I most certainly enjoyed it and thought it was a great end to that NK . Who was a boring villain anyway.

Maybe I don't watch the show for its brilliant writing, but for whores, tits, dragons torching fools and barbarians lopping people's heads off?

Quote from: BobFromPikeCreek on April 30, 2019, 03:20:45 PM

To be fair, if you didn't expect a ton of deus ex machina from a show with 900 hanging threads and 6 eps left to wrap it all up you were setting yourself up for disappointment.

I enjoy the show and haven't missed an episode. But let's not pretend it's Blood Meridian either.

Nintex · « **Reply #245 on:** April 30, 2019, 03:22:06 PM »

I like it better that the big evil is Cersei and not some mute blue eyed idiot. I suppose the writers found that out as well.

However, some decisions by the 'smartest people in the room' were really dumb. Like hiding in the crypts with the corpses when you know that your enemy has the power to revive those corpses.
Also having the one guy with knowledge (Sam) on the front lines because he 'wants to' was dumb. Sam should've been all the way in the back, observing it from afar.
To be able to escape to the south and tell what happened there (him being a Maester would've allowed him some sort of diplomatic immunity or at least they'd hear him out before killing him).

That doesn't take away from the fact that it was easily some of the most epic 80 minutes of television ever created and it got me pumped for what comes next.

Quote from: BobFromPikeCreek on April 30, 2019, 03:20:45 PM

To be fair, if you didn't expect a ton of deus ex machina from a show with 900 hanging threads and 6 eps left to wrap it all up you were setting yourself up for disappointment.

So far they're doing a better job than something like Boardwalk Empire. Which just 'ended' leaving almost nothing resolved.

Raist · « **Reply #246 on:** April 30, 2019, 03:22:28 PM »

What was the fucking point of that "pls Gendry make me this seekreet weapon I designed muhself plssssss" thing anyway?

See, if she had fought the NK in single combat, and killed him thanks to that weapon, that would have made sense.

Her "master assassin" training was mostly that, and they clubbed people over the head with it. Including not that long ago with that practice fight against Brienne.

As for the rest, I'm pretty sure even Sansa could also have wiped the Freys if she had access to poison and some perfect disguise shit.

BobFromPikeCreek · « **Reply #247 on:** April 30, 2019, 03:27:10 PM »

Quote from: agrajag on April 30, 2019, 03:22:03 PM

I enjoy the show and haven't missed an episode. But let's not pretend it's Blood Meridian either.

I mean I agree they could be handling it better, but given the last two or three seasons I came in expecting dumb.

agrajag · « **Reply #248 on:** April 30, 2019, 03:30:21 PM »

Quote from: BobFromPikeCreek on April 30, 2019, 03:27:10 PM

Quote from: agrajag on April 30, 2019, 03:22:03 PM
I enjoy the show and haven't missed an episode. But let's not pretend it's Blood Meridian either.

I mean I agree they could be handling it better, but given the last two or three seasons I came in expecting dumb.

The fact that it isn't really plot heavy is a saving grace for this season. The show writers have been somewhat rudderless since they caught up and overtook the books. This season is miles better than the show's low of "bad pussy," I'll give it that.

Svejk · « **Reply #249 on:** April 30, 2019, 03:32:39 PM »

So, Cersei is going to see how Jamie is with Brienne and have the Mountain kill Brianne, in which will trigger The Hound vs. The Mountain fight, and will follow by Jamie killing Cersei... and be known as the Queen Slayer.... I'm calling it now.

BobFromPikeCreek · « **Reply #250 on:** April 30, 2019, 03:33:16 PM »

Yeah it definitely has ascended from straight trash to enjoyably shallow pulp fantasy.

Brehvolution · « **Reply #251 on:** April 30, 2019, 03:39:51 PM »

El Babua · « **Reply #252 on:** April 30, 2019, 04:24:40 PM »

Including his support of Yang over Biden

MMaRsu · « **Reply #253 on:** April 30, 2019, 04:36:35 PM »

I've been looking at youtube clips of past seasons for over one and a half hour now

But honestly to me even in S6 shit like this is still decent to great writing most of the time ( conversation wise )

Sure it's no Tywin or anything but still good

Cerveza mas fina · « **Reply #254 on:** April 30, 2019, 05:18:29 PM »

Quote from: agrajag on April 30, 2019, 09:27:48 AM

Lager, did you watch the commentary after the episode? They picked Arya to be the NK killer solely for the surprise factor. Not because it makes sense thematically. That's why it feels cheap to a lot of people. I don't really care, I am simply enjoying the spectacle at this point, but I turned off my brain when it comes to the show a long time ago.

The writing has been sloppy lately with a lot of loose ends simply not addressed. Like how do Varys (who has an axe to grind with red priests for chopping off his dick), Melissandre (who tried to sacrifice Gendry), Gendry, Beric (who sold Gendry to be sacrificed), Rya (who has Melissandre and Beric on her kill lost) all be at the same place and not even have a passing mention of their beef with each other?

And then one of the fucking producers says rhat all Dothraki had perished from the world. He wants us to believe that that small band that rode off to die were all the Dothraki in the world?

I turned off my brain too, i mean the episode waa not perfect but it was fun.

naff · « **Reply #255 on:** April 30, 2019, 06:15:27 PM »

Arya killing nk was pretty heavily telegraphed. The only Stark who is now also an assassin of the most elite order. Cinematography and direction were pretty atrocious. Yes they wanted to convey the chaos and disarray but it was quite sloppy execution taking a lot of liberty with continuity and character location. Jorah Mormont how conveniently located, actually there are only 4 wights attacking you now Jon not the 300 rabid ice zombies we showed surrounding you moments ago. etc. I'd have to watch again to count all the little continuity, and other issues but generally just really disliked the battle. Was annoyed from the outset when they sent the forward mounts with fire swords into the wall of wights as an emotional ploy that really set the tone of despair as all their swords were slowly extinguished while the remaining soldiers looked on

Stupid, contrived bs.

naff · « **Reply #256 on:** April 30, 2019, 06:27:58 PM »

Quote from: Don Rumata on April 30, 2019, 03:15:41 PM

Arya being a Master Assassin or not, isn't even the issue, in my opinion.
I'm willing to accept that she's become a godly ninja, since they've been beating us over the head with it, over the last 2 seasons, but what i take issue with, is the way they decided to implement these skills, just wasn't clever on any level.
She literally jumped out of off screen, going past dozens of people with no explanation.
Regardless of how "realistic" that is, it's just not fun from a storytelling perspective, because it doesn't respect its own rules, it's just a cheap editing trick, that betrays your suspension of disbelief as a viewer.
That's what a plot-hole really is, it's breaking the established rule-set, for convenience's sake.

I'm ok with Arya killing the NK using her ninja skills, but come up with some fucking method she actually implements, that isn't abusing the editing software to teleport behind him, just because you're too lazy to write yourself out of that corner.

The whole ep was a series of cheap tricks. Arya killing NK in such lacklustre fashion was just the cherry on top.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

i should read more of the thread before posting. just rehashing other peoples points

[close]

Nintex · « **Reply #257 on:** April 30, 2019, 06:49:58 PM »

Who was managing the defense anyway?

Jorah went with the Dothraki. Jaime was on the front. Jon and Daenerys were flying their dragons, Tyrion was in the crypt with Sansa and Varys and Theon went with Bran.
Other than that it was just lone wolves like Clegane, Beric, Arya, the Unsullied and Brienne out there.

The only "tactician" who was in the back to manage the defense of Winterfell was ... Sir Davos. And he performed as well as he did during the battle of blackwater bay.
Failing the one task he had which was signaling the dragons.

They could've at least put some catapults behind the castle walls instead of neatly lining up their entire army outside of the walls ready to be slaughtered by a zombie horde.

Another strategic error were the use of the dothraki. They should've told them to hold and wait until the enemy forces got closer and attacked them at their right and left flanks. Much like how Stannis easily routed the Wildlings.
Davos is supposed to know all this.

headwalk · « **Reply #258 on:** April 30, 2019, 06:58:45 PM »

"tactics" and "strategy"? alright gramps, we're not at boarding school in the 1950s anymore. can't gram that shit.

my bby got white dudes to slay. unplug your brain you virgins.

CatsCatsCats · « **Reply #259 on:** April 30, 2019, 07:01:51 PM »

Lil leader girl killing the giant wight was cool tho y no one talk about that

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #260 on:** April 30, 2019, 07:04:16 PM »

Quote from: Glen on April 30, 2019, 06:43:27 PM

The strategy and tactics were atrocious.

No scouting. No obstacles to slow the advance. One artillery barrage. Cavalry charge in the dark with no scouting. Archers barely used until late in the battle. Dragons barely used at all offensively.

There should have been advance scouts deployed, and the WW force should have been taking a nonstop artillery barrage from the moment they were in range, with rows and rows of obstacles placed to slow their advance and keep them in artillery range longer. The dragons should have been strafing their flanks constantly. It's absurd that the NK was able to get >95% of his original force within 500 feet of Winterfell. He should have been down a few thousand wights before a single human made contact with his army.

Hahahahaha you're acting like any of this was out of character for Jon Snow, who I'm sure will go on to be the worst possible King one day

headwalk · « **Reply #261 on:** April 30, 2019, 07:05:36 PM »

Quote from: CatsCatsCats on April 30, 2019, 07:01:51 PM

Lil leader girl killing the giant wight was cool tho y no one talk about that

because a few seasons ago when the show had some sand he'd have just bitten the little cunt's head off and that'd be the end of it.

Tokyosandblaster · « **Reply #262 on:** April 30, 2019, 07:16:35 PM »

Quote from: Glen on April 30, 2019, 06:43:27 PM

The strategy and tactics were atrocious.

No scouting. No obstacles to slow the advance. One artillery barrage. Cavalry charge in the dark with no scouting. Archers barely used until late in the battle. Dragons barely used at all offensively.

There should have been advance scouts deployed, and the WW force should have been taking a nonstop artillery barrage from the moment they were in range, with rows and rows of obstacles placed to slow their advance and keep them in artillery range longer. The dragons should have been strafing their flanks constantly. It's absurd that the NK was able to get >95% of his original force within 500 feet of Winterfell. He should have been down a few thousand wights before a single human made contact with his army.

Keep winning, Jack Remington. (This episode was garbage)

agrajag · « **Reply #263 on:** April 30, 2019, 07:19:09 PM »

maybe they should've let Tyrion out of the crypt so someone with brains could actually manage their defenses.

They pretty much did the opposite of everything this guy recommended.

naff · « **Reply #264 on:** April 30, 2019, 07:19:23 PM »

i don't really remember the premise for jon running into the battle of the bastards so recklessly, and whether the Vale crew showing up to save them from the boltons was anticipated or not but man that battle was sick

Mandark · « **Reply #265 on:** April 30, 2019, 07:37:25 PM »

Quote from: naff on April 30, 2019, 07:19:23 PM

i don't really remember the premise for jon running into the battle of the bastards so recklessly, and whether the Vale crew showing up to save them from the boltons was anticipated or not but man that battle was sick

Ramsey released Tommen and Jon was running to meet him.

Also, ever since Jon Snow got killed and told Melisandre not to bring him back the next time he's acted like someone with a serious death wish, both with the character's decisions and Kit Harrington looking perpetually exhausted. I don't know if that's deliberate but I've enjoyed it.

Himu · « **Reply #266 on:** April 30, 2019, 09:47:04 PM »

I used to like Dany.

Now I fucking hate her.

Cerveza mas fina · « **Reply #267 on:** May 01, 2019, 12:11:27 AM »

I will admit that having the catapults in front of the infantry was total lolz, as was the fact they fired off like one round

But honestly if you get upset about this stuff thats not a good look, just enjoy the ride.

team filler · « **Reply #268 on:** May 01, 2019, 12:22:06 AM »

it was better when all the fighting over the iron thrown was pointless with the night king on his way to wipe everyone out

I became #teamNK from the show being so dumb

the dothraki were:

#demthrones is south park level storytelling, with 1000x the budget

Himu · « **Reply #269 on:** May 01, 2019, 12:23:31 AM »

I'm just along for the ride. The show writers have showed themselves to be lacking a long time ago. Just have fun and enjoy the fact that we are almost free from GURM

Tasty · « **Reply #270 on:** May 01, 2019, 12:30:00 AM »

Dany was always the worst.

Bran had the best storyline until they tanked it.

Himu · « **Reply #271 on:** May 01, 2019, 12:31:18 AM »

Quote from: Human Snorenado on April 30, 2019, 07:04:16 PM

Quote from: Glen on April 30, 2019, 06:43:27 PM
The strategy and tactics were atrocious.

No scouting. No obstacles to slow the advance. One artillery barrage. Cavalry charge in the dark with no scouting. Archers barely used until late in the battle. Dragons barely used at all offensively.

There should have been advance scouts deployed, and the WW force should have been taking a nonstop artillery barrage from the moment they were in range, with rows and rows of obstacles placed to slow their advance and keep them in artillery range longer. The dragons should have been strafing their flanks constantly. It's absurd that the NK was able to get >95% of his original force within 500 feet of Winterfell. He should have been down a few thousand wights before a single human made contact with his army.

Hahahahaha you're acting like any of this was out of character for Jon Snow, who I'm sure will go on to be the worst possible King one day

(Image removed from quote.)

I won't allow you to talk about my man like this. The future king.

Imagine being me. My favorite character is the best character in the books AND is likely to sit on the iron throne on the virtue of being a man, saving the realm from the wrath of Daenerys.

You're welcome!

Himu · « **Reply #272 on:** May 01, 2019, 12:39:05 AM »

tbh you guys expecting more make no sense. GoT is not well written and hasn't been since at least season 2 or 3. I'm surprised y'all haven't gotten used to this shit by now. Keep your standards low and enjoy a fun popcorn pulp fantasy.

team filler · « **Reply #273 on:** May 01, 2019, 12:47:04 AM »

you like short guys, himu?

Himu · « **Reply #274 on:** May 01, 2019, 12:48:01 AM »

Quote from: filler on May 01, 2019, 12:47:04 AM

you like short guys, himu?

how short? Tyrion short or Tom Cruise short? I'm down with Tom Cruise short? I am short myself.

team filler · « **Reply #275 on:** May 01, 2019, 12:49:46 AM »

ain't jon targaryen like 5'3 ?

Himu · « **Reply #276 on:** May 01, 2019, 12:50:34 AM »

Quote from: filler on May 01, 2019, 12:49:46 AM

ain't jon targaryen like 5'3 ?

Jesus, I'm like 1 inch taller than him.

He's Prince tall? I don't have a thing for Kit. I just love the character!

team filler · « **Reply #277 on:** May 01, 2019, 12:52:30 AM »

I always imagined you were a 6' amazonian goddess

Himu · « **Reply #278 on:** May 01, 2019, 12:53:00 AM »

Thank God I'm not

BIONIC · « **Reply #279 on:** May 01, 2019, 01:43:19 AM »

filler trying to messageboard cheat on Sophie

Raist · « **Reply #280 on:** May 01, 2019, 05:27:28 AM »

Well, there goes a lot of the foreshadowing stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ1yC3yESLQ&t=8m55s

MMaRsu · « **Reply #281 on:** May 01, 2019, 09:55:41 AM »

Yeah ofcourse that foreshadowing is bull. But it fits nicely imo. Arya is next to Aegon the only one realistically who could kill the NK.

But I guess if ur like nah Arya is still a noob and no master assassin ( which the show clearly needs to spell out for some ) then I understand why you wouldnt take that as possibility.

agrajag · « **Reply #282 on:** May 01, 2019, 10:10:21 AM »

Tbh the "lol Jon was always incompetent and stupid" as an argument against the show having shitty writing makes no sense because the show constently presents Jon as the best the good guys got. And everyone wants him to be their leader.

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #283 on:** May 01, 2019, 10:21:54 AM »

Quote from: agrajag on May 01, 2019, 10:10:21 AM

Tbh the "lol Jon was always incompetent and stupid" as an argument against the show having shitty writing makes no sense because the show constently presents Jon as the best the good guys got. And everyone wants him to be their leader.

That just shows how dumb the North is.

agrajag · « **Reply #284 on:** May 01, 2019, 10:40:23 AM »

Quote from: Human Snorenado on May 01, 2019, 10:21:54 AM

Quote from: agrajag on May 01, 2019, 10:10:21 AM
Tbh the "lol Jon was always incompetent and stupid" as an argument against the show having shitty writing makes no sense because the show constently presents Jon as the best the good guys got. And everyone wants him to be their leader.

That just shows how dumb the North is.

the North... And Dany. And Tyrion. And Varys. And Brienne. And the Onion Knight. And the Red Lady. And Berric Dondarion. And the Vale. And now Jaime. It's almost like everyone is dumb because the show is dumb.

agrajag · « **Reply #285 on:** May 01, 2019, 10:52:36 AM »

so why did the experienced battle commanders make such rookie tactical errors?

agrajag · « **Reply #286 on:** May 01, 2019, 11:06:47 AM »

Reeotous calling me an insufferable nerd.

headwalk · « **Reply #287 on:** May 01, 2019, 11:09:23 AM »

it's not really about the real world though is it mate. a good battle is no different from any other piece of good drama, with all the same rules. it doesn't have to be realistic but it does need to operate within an identifiable framework. there has to be motive, intent, reaction and consequence, otherwise like i said above, the audience just gets stinkfisted into numbness within the first 10 minutes and it becomes a massively expensive way for nothing interesting to happen.

agrajag · « **Reply #288 on:** May 01, 2019, 11:21:59 AM »

I enjoyed the show and the episode

Don Rumata · « **Reply #289 on:** May 01, 2019, 11:56:30 AM »

Quote from: riotous on May 01, 2019, 11:14:25 AM

Quote from: agrajag on May 01, 2019, 11:06:47 AM
Reeotous calling me an insufferable nerd.

I'm just fucking around; I won't fault you guys for giving a shit..

... but I will say you are doing it wrong. I got annoyed briefly "why are they charging?" but then I thought "Oh that's a cool scene, I get it" once I saw their sword-flames being "snuffed out" and how dramatic that was.

What do you gain by caring so much about the battle strategies used on a show that is 99% not about battles?

edit: And I still "get it".. I have failed to enjoy media too.. but you guys are failing. Hopefully you enjoy the nit-picking though.

Yeah but even if you consider "why isn't the tactic realistic" a nitpick, which is fair enough, on a storytelling standpoint, it still ringed very hollow (and thus unengaging and boring to watch) when every other scene was red-shirt-slaughter with bubbles of magical plot armors forming around main characters, with a couple of telegraphed deaths (of very secondary characters), and on top of that, almost every "near death" moment for the main characters, got resolved the same way, 15 times (with another hero jumping in from off screen at the last second).

Even if you forego the "battle tactics" aspect, the bad writing still hampered the basic enjoyment of what was on screen.
You can enjoy the sheer spectacle, and effects, and i think pretty much everybody here conceded as much on that front, but the bad writing went beyond just nitpicking, i think.

Himu · « **Reply #290 on:** May 01, 2019, 12:18:20 PM »

Quote from: agrajag on May 01, 2019, 10:52:36 AM

so why did the experienced battle commanders make such rookie tactical errors?

Because it’s a tv show not trying to portray realistic military strategy. Military strategy and stuff in these types of shows is always stupid. They’re playing it up for drama. Just like they always have. To them, shock and drama > better storytelling if they can get away with it.

It is known.

agrajag · « **Reply #291 on:** May 01, 2019, 12:20:58 PM »

glad you agree that it's stupid

Brehvolution · « **Reply #292 on:** May 01, 2019, 12:40:52 PM »

Theon should have just waited 2 minutes.

Himu · « **Reply #293 on:** May 01, 2019, 02:01:29 PM »

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/alex-jones-game-of-thrones/?fbclid=IwAR2hk5AFlYXR-RnLhLj8cbWVTxDoiwdIjELlRB4PztROSeCODHhi3E0LXHg

hahahaha

Himu · « **Reply #294 on:** May 01, 2019, 03:11:27 PM »

Stuff like this is why I give GoT a loooooot of rope. They've diverged so much from the books I love that I'm numb to the stupid shit now. I no longer care. I just want closure and freedom from Gurm.

agrajag · « **Reply #295 on:** May 01, 2019, 03:12:59 PM »

Quote from: Cindi Mayweather on May 01, 2019, 03:11:27 PM

Stuff like this is why I give GoT a loooooot of rope. They've diverged so much from the books I love that I'm numb to the stupid shit now. I no longer care. I just want closure and freedom from Gurm.

lol it's on my Watch Later que, haven't gotten around to it yet.

team filler · « **Reply #296 on:** May 01, 2019, 03:13:20 PM »

There are books?

Joe Molotov · « **Reply #297 on:** May 01, 2019, 03:21:23 PM »

Quote from: filler on May 01, 2019, 03:13:20 PM

There are books?

Himu · « **Reply #298 on:** May 01, 2019, 03:26:19 PM »

Quote from: filler on May 01, 2019, 03:13:20 PM

There are books?

absolutely not and i suggest not reading them, less you are willing to bind yourself to the curse of Gurm!!

Raist · « **Reply #299 on:** May 01, 2019, 03:39:02 PM »

Quote from: MMaRsu on May 01, 2019, 09:55:41 AM

Yeah ofcourse that foreshadowing is bull. But it fits nicely imo. Arya is next to Aegon the only one realistically who could kill the NK.

But I guess if ur like nah Arya is still a noob and no master assassin ( which the show clearly needs to spell out for some ) then I understand why you wouldnt take that as possibility.

It doesn't fit anything. Melissandre said "brown blue and green eyes". Basically meaning, potentially anyone. Lots of people. Whatever. It has fuck all to do with the NK.

Arya can certainly fight, and Sylvio would be proud, I'll give you that.

But the whole "master assassin" thing makes me laugh. It's not exactly hard to assassinate people when you have access to magical face masks that make you look and sound exactly like whoever the fuck you want.
Call me when she infiltrates the Red Keep and wipes everyone out, without using cheat mode.

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Author Topic: Game of Thrones Season 8, we can finally stop waiting on GURM (Read 160878 times)