Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 5390906 times)

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VomKriege

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etiolate

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Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #7022 on: June 25, 2017, 05:50:24 PM »
Come on down to CRAZY BERNIE SANDERS, our deals are so low they're gonna lock me up!
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Boogie

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #7023 on: June 25, 2017, 07:36:04 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)

 :doge

Do I even want to look up what "themes" he took away from that?

I mean, he finds a fucking truck stop to be an "eye opening" experience?  :picard
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VomKriege

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #7024 on: June 25, 2017, 07:45:17 PM »
https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/528696/

That's a decent article on the last election. Some rehash, obviously, but the part about the studies conducted in Macomb, Michigan are very good and bring some perspective.

Quote
There’s a certain tragedy to that description. Clinton had developed what was in many ways a populist agenda, but she apparently could never get past her own self-consciousness about Wall Street speeches and fund-raising in the Hamptons to make these issues her own.

Quote
Polling by the group Priorities USA Action shows that a stunning percentage of the voters who switched their allegiance from Obama to Trump believe that Democratic economic policies favor the rich—42 percent, nearly twice the number who consider that to be true of Trump’s agenda.

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His moderator asked the subjects whether it worried them that Trump had stocked his administration with Wall Street chieftains. That piece of news, it seemed, hadn’t traveled widely in Macomb, and it consistently rattled the groups. “It’s going to be a lot of the same old garbage,” one man groused. Concerns about Trump’s temperament did nothing to dislodge the participants’ support—the connection these voters felt with Trump was personal and deep—but the fact that he might align with traditional Republicans annoyed them to no end. (The groups reacted angrily when shown photos of Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell. People described them as “shifty” and “for the upper class.”) What many Macomb voters value about Trump is that he represents an unaligned force in American politics. That’s the very quality that in earlier election cycles led them to Obama.
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Rufus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7025 on: June 25, 2017, 09:50:21 PM »
Any researchers investigate the power of meme magic yet? We all know that's at the core of everything.

CatsCatsCats

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7026 on: June 25, 2017, 11:46:58 PM »
You get enough people to believe it, it becomes reality :yeshrug

TakingBackSunday

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7027 on: June 26, 2017, 12:01:55 AM »
I really hope biden fucking runs
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thisismyusername

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #7028 on: June 26, 2017, 12:08:06 AM »
Who the fuck does he think is going to vote for him? Can't run on the right cause Don is already there, and running on the left as the Facebook guy is a laughable thing to even try to do considering their admission of letting FAKE NEWS run rampant on the site leading up to and influencing the election. No leftist worth a damn is going to get behind this goober. :maf :doge

Besides which, he's early 30-mid 30's. Ain't nobody (not even his generation) gonna vote for him.

JFK was the youngest folks were willing to vote about 50 years ago. I highly doubt folks would vote for "they're giving me their information, the morons" unlike JFK.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7029 on: June 26, 2017, 01:42:47 AM »
I really hope biden fucking runs
He'd be 78 before he took office, voted for the Iraq war, sponsored the crime bill, and sponsored the bankruptcy bill.

As beloved as he's been while not running for president, some of his most important accomplishments are very out of sync with the current Democratic party. A primary campaign would suddenly give a lot of people incentives to shine a light on that stuff.

TakingBackSunday

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7030 on: June 26, 2017, 02:14:33 AM »
I agree with Jack, for once.

The Iraq shit is ancient history at this point to most voters, and the other stuff that makes him "bad" in progressive mindsets wouldn't even be an issue in a general election.

His age would be an issue, but I just don't know who else in the Democratic Party connects to midwesterners and independents that voted for Trump, who also happens to be popular.
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TakingBackSunday

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7031 on: June 26, 2017, 02:15:23 AM »
You put him on the ticket with a young super progressive, I think you have a strong ticket.  That's my view, anyway.
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VomKriege

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7032 on: June 26, 2017, 02:18:09 AM »
D nominee will be Trump in a surprise transfer move that will get hype through the roof.
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Trent Dole

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7033 on: June 26, 2017, 02:26:24 AM »
I'd like one of the Castro bros but they've not even bee brought up in any 2020 articles. Viva Castro, motherfuckers. :gun
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Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7034 on: June 26, 2017, 02:29:42 AM »
Wouldn't he make sense for the weirdo swing voters who went from Obama to Trump? I'm not pretending I know what does and doesn't get people to vote, but none of the issues you brought up seem to matter to a lot of people like we thought they would.
Yeah, I think the consensus is that he would've appealed to working-class white voters in the Midwest better than Hillary did, and I think there's a good chance that's true.

But turning out the base is also important, and it's very plausible to see a lot of younger voters being disenchanted with him at the end of a primary fight. So it might cancel out on the margins while exacerbating a longer term problem for the whole party. If he did slide on all those issues, then the most hardcore Hillary stans would be right, and it was a thousand percent sexism all along.

Plus if he got hammered on the bank thing* it could be hard to change that perception about the parties' economic platforms that you highlighted from that survey.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Biden's had a reputation as being very pro-bank his whole career, and authored a law which changed personal bankruptcy laws sharply in favor of the creditors. The state he represented in the Senate is home to several big financial corporations because it has favorable laws for them.
[close]

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7035 on: June 26, 2017, 02:35:10 AM »
Also Biden ran for president twice and IIRC was never a serious contender in Iowa either time, so let's not make him into the Midwest White Guy Whisperer just quite yet.

If we're going to fantasize about some deus ex machina to save us from the current shitshow, it's more fun to talk about the pee tape.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7036 on: June 26, 2017, 03:13:40 AM »
Biden didn't even make it to the first Iowa debate in 1987 because that's when his plagiarism came out and he dropped out the day of the debate.

And sure he only got 0.9% in Iowa in 2008, but he won the much more coveted Richard Schiff primary.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7037 on: June 26, 2017, 03:17:21 AM »
I've been to that truckstop, it's really not that impressive. It's more like a Wal-Mart Supercenter than a "small city."

let me know when Zuckerberg revives the once largest McDonalds to visit with the common folk at:
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 10:59:30 AM by benjipwns »

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7038 on: June 26, 2017, 04:48:15 AM »
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/06/25/paper-ballots-hackproof-bring-them-back-glenn-reynoldscolumn/416652001/
Quote
I’ve been talking about the importance of protecting against voting-machine hacks since 2002. And now, finally, people are starting to take me seriously.

The move to paperless voting started in response to the Florida “hanging chad” fiasco in the 2000 presidential election. Some people (like me) thought this was a mistake, but such concerns were often dismissed. Now, apparently, you can’t be paranoid enough.
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Well, we could try to boost our cybersecurity, but given that the NSA, the FBI and the CIA are leaking important secrets on a daily basis, maybe we’re not up to that job. So, once again, let me suggest that we return to something that, by its very nature, can’t be hacked by a guy in St. Petersburg: Paper ballots.

In some ways, paper and ink is a super technology. When you cast a vote on a voting machine, all that’s recorded is who you voted for. But a paper ballot captures lots of other information: Ink color, handwriting, etc. If you have access to a voting machine that’s connected to the Internet, you can change all the votes at once. To change a bunch of paper ballots takes physical access, and unless you’re very careful the changed ballots will show evidence of tampering.
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Perhaps it’s time to mandate paper ballots, and to also legally require other steps to ensure election integrity. Vote-counting systems should be transparent, and regularly audited. Voter ID should be strictly enforced, as it is in all advanced democracies to ensure that only eligible voters vote. And voter registrations should be audited frequently to ensure the removal of voters who have died or moved away. Maybe we should even dye voters’ fingers to prevent revoting, as is done in many other countries. There’s no way to hack that.

We like to tell citizens that every vote counts. But actually, no vote counts unless it is counted. And even if it’s counted, it still doesn’t really count if it’s changed by hackers, or canceled out by someone else’s fraudulent vote.

It’s time, and past time, to get serious about ballot security. Because today’s paranoia and division is just a minor taste of what could happen next time, if we remain unprepared. America can’t afford that.
i'm fascinated by how much conservatives care about a fringe number of ballots in the input stack

i also find it hard to believe that voter id and all that stuff would have a statistically significant enough impact to where it's not actually security theatre with any suppression just being a bonus side effect

maybe someone should tell them that North Korea uses all paper ballots only?

edit: first comment:
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John Thomas
And there still hasn't been one shred of evidence suggesting votes were hacekd - ever. Those that understand the technology laugh at people like the author of this "Chicken Little" piece.
third paragraph of article:
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It remains true that there is no actual evidence that a single vote was changed by hackers in the 2016 election.
:doge

also:
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Terri M. Sweeney
And only voting in person on the day of the election, with ID, except for legitimate absentee ballots. And let's use the IRS database to eliminate from voter rolls the millions of illegal aliens who have stolen American identities... and prosecute them for the felonies.
prosecute the people with stolen identities? why would the thieves be in the IRS database? :lol
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 05:18:15 AM by benjipwns »

Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7039 on: June 26, 2017, 11:01:28 AM »
I'd like one of the Castro bros but they've not even bee brought up in any 2020 articles. Viva Castro, motherfuckers. :gun

Fidel is dead and Raul is not an American citizen afaik.
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benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7040 on: June 26, 2017, 11:01:47 AM »
https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2017/06/26/advice-to-help-our-beloved-democrat-friends-win-in-2018-n2346549
Quote
Since we conservatives humiliated Felonia von Pantsuit last November, it’s been all winning, all the time, from Neil Gorsuch to crushing the liberal climate cult to appointing a Defense Secretary nicknamed Mad Dog who prioritizes annihilating jihadists over making the infantry more welcoming to people confused about whether they are boys or girls. But that’s unfair to the Democrats – as our liberal friends teach us, our success belongs to them too, just like everything else we earn, build, or create belongs to them too.

We need to share our winning. We need to be bipartisan-curious!
Quote
Need more convincing? Well, I recently visited a union hall in Wisconsin, which totally happened. There, beneath the portrait of Hillary that the steelworkers and construction journeyman ensure is garlanded with roses each morning, I shared feelings with the kind of workin’ guys Democrats love.

“My big issue,” said Gus, an autoworker, “is Russia! Sure, it’s been a year and no evidence has leaked out, but I’m still hoping for something, anything. And thanks to my job being outsourced to Juarez last summer, I have plenty time to focus on it!”

“Yeah, damn straight!” said Lenny the Teamster, smoke curling up from the Marlboro clenched in his meaty paw. “This Russia Trump treason thing is important to me, but not as much as making sure our society uses intersectional critical theory to fight the patriarchal paradigms that reinforce systems of oppression directed against womyn, trans individuals, and otherkins.”

“Down with phallocentricity!” cheered Gus, raising his Pabst. See, if you just address their priorities, the Rust Belt is ripe for the re-taking!
STEALING MATERIAL:

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7041 on: June 26, 2017, 12:01:42 PM »
Quote
The National Endowment for the Arts is spending $20,000 for a musical about a lesbian illegal immigrant who is in love with an ICE agent.

The San Francisco Mime Troupe, a self-described socialist theater group, received the funding in the first round of grants awarded under the Trump administration. Jane Chu is the current chairman of the NEA, who was appointed by former president Barack Obama in 2014.

The musical is entitled "WALLS!" and stars a "bad hombre," mocking a phrase used by Trump to describe criminal illegal aliens during a presidential debate.

The musical does not only address issues of immigration, but a host of other liberal and political topics.

"Using the Mime Troupe's signature style of broad, physical theater, the work will explore immigration, gun violence, the opioid epidemic, depression, the public education system, and racial tensions, and how they relate to societal health," according to the grant for the project. "Portions of the work will be developed through playmaking workshops in California's Central Valley with low-income youth, inmates, and migrant workers."

"WALLS asks the question: How can a nation of immigrants declare war on immigration? The answer: FEAR!" the San Francisco Mime Troupe states on their website.

The lead character is Zaniyah, a criminal illegal alien and lesbian struggling with mental health issues.

"Zaniyah is a criminal, an illegal, a ‘bad hombre,'" the theater group said. "What part of herself will this American give up to pass as ‘American?' Will she? Can she? Should she? Can someone leave part of themselves behind without losing their mind? And is it better or worse that she crossed the border to find Agent L. Mary Jones – the woman she loves?"
:rofl

i wonder how much was spent as part of this obviously high level program to create the ultimate conservative outrage story

Boredfrom

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7042 on: June 26, 2017, 04:51:22 PM »
I'm suffering from withdrawals of negative Trump news. :shaq2

I thought there was gonna be some shit hitting today according to Comey's friend. Last friday or today. But nothing today so far. Maybe tomorrow.

Dude, don't do this to yourself.

Trent Dole

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7043 on: June 26, 2017, 05:04:38 PM »
Watch a random old Last Week Tonight segment then. It's not like they're any less true a few weeks later.
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Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7044 on: June 26, 2017, 05:56:53 PM »
i also find it hard to believe that voter id and all that stuff would have a statistically significant enough impact to where it's not actually security theatre with any suppression just being a bonus side effect
Really depends on what constitutes "all that stuff," doesn't it?


TakingBackSunday

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7046 on: June 26, 2017, 09:44:09 PM »
I can't fucking stand this shit
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Steve Contra

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Joe Molotov

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benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7049 on: June 26, 2017, 10:39:44 PM »
i also find it hard to believe that voter id and all that stuff would have a statistically significant enough impact to where it's not actually security theatre with any suppression just being a bonus side effect
Really depends on what constitutes "all that stuff," doesn't it?
Sorry, was meaning his "recommendations" in the column, which unfortunately did not include an increased and armed police presence at and around highly minority precincts to better protect the historically disadvantaged voters.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7050 on: June 26, 2017, 10:43:29 PM »
Ideally, you'd save money by having the police do the voter ID checks, it could be tied into the warrant database for even better efficiency.



Great Rumbler

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7053 on: June 27, 2017, 12:04:37 AM »
Oh, and Collins has come out against the bill, so there just needs to be two more Senate Republicans with a spine to kill this abomination. Not gonna hold my breath for it, though.
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benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7054 on: June 27, 2017, 12:50:55 AM »
http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2017/06/seattle-minimum-wage-study.html
Quote
Quote
Daniel Weber June 26, 2017 at 12:42 pm
“If we make being poor illegal, people will stop being poor.”
Tony Homewood June 26, 2017 at 8:50 pm
No it wouldn’t. Poverty is relative.

If we gave everyone $1,000,000, within a very short time some people would have 100 Million, some would have 50 others 20 and some would have nothing. It is how life is.

If you said it was illegal for someone to be poor then you are implying that the state would have to give them cash, to stop them being poor. Very quickly people would set about qualifying for the cash.

It won’t work
:doge

 :lol

Quote
jay June 26, 2017 at 1:22 pm
It sounds like what you’re saying is, we can have open borders and low wages, or lower immigration and higher wages. I wonder which one people will choose?
knew if i kept scrolling i'd get one, teach a man to fish comments :rollsafe

Quote
JWatts June 26, 2017 at 2:39 pm
“These findings, examining another year of data and including the increase to $13/hr, are unequivocal: the policy is an unmitigated disaster.”

This finding seems completely premature. I think we should hold out till the minimum wage hits $15/hr in 2021 before we can determine the boundary conditions for “unmitigated disaster”.
now this man understands real science :aah

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7055 on: June 27, 2017, 01:16:27 AM »
http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2017/06/seattle-minimum-wage-study.html

Couple of quick thoughts here.

The biggest being, upward pressure on wages forces examinations of efficiency and pricing in order to adapt to labor price changes.

Not sure I am all that surprised that when you raise a minimum wage in a way that is fairly sudden and quick that many employers in a highly competitive marketplace like Seattle would seek to cut inefficiencies before changing prices. Leading to a situation where after such a process, in the aggregate, there is a net gain in efficiencies greater then were projected to be lost by increases in labor costs.

Also, only looking at one slice of the employment pool - low wage workers - seems to be ignoring an awful lot of the economic pie which would be valuable in adding greater context to Seattle economy experiment. For instance what about wages right above the low wage threshold? What about similar major cities that didn't implement these laws but had a similar economic growth cycle to compare Seattle with?

I would also hesitate to extrapolate too much from the Seattle case study simply because we also have several other ongoing experiments in several cities. I am curious what sort of meta studies come out and what they show.


EDIT: Though I am curious what the next thought process of this seemingly giddy libertarian would be if other cities mirror this study? So increased minimum wages of notable increases create a net decrease in aggregate earnings for low income earners? What now? Something tells me he isn't going to be clamoring for a social safety net to help people affected by the unabated pressures of industry on labor wages in his minimum wage-less utopia.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 01:57:13 AM by Nola »

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7056 on: June 27, 2017, 01:57:54 AM »
Seattle is phasing in the $15 minimum from the state minimum of $11, it's only gone up to $12 for those under 500 employees and $12.50 for those over ($13 if no medical) so far.

The statewide minimum already increases based on CPI.

My primary complaint would be the time scale is roughly 18 months but I guess the city wanted a quick win to tout but their study came back as expected rather than how they wanted.

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7057 on: June 27, 2017, 02:21:40 AM »
Seattle is phasing in the $15 minimum from the state minimum of $11, it's only gone up to $12 for those under 500 employees and $12.50 for those over ($13 if no medical) so far.

The statewide minimum already increases based on CPI.

My primary complaint would be the time scale is roughly 18 months but I guess the city wanted a quick win to tout but their study came back as expected rather than how they wanted.

Interesting, I was under the impression it was a quicker phase in for all employers. Still, I don't really think that changes my thinking or questions much.

One of the prevailing myths I find is the idea that even in highly competitive marketplaces that businesses are operating at near total efficiency. Rarely is that the case I have seen. So when changes in policy or economic situations occur, all of the sudden companies find all these efficiencies they could of capitalized on years ago, but only did so when a shock forced them out of complacency. Like all the companies investing in automation, eliminating low value jobs, and efficiency gaining software during the recession. So when demand picked up, growth returned, confidence returned, but you still saw fewer jobs opening that were lost.

So it wouldn't shock me if places like Chicago and New York end up showing similar findings to Seattle when it comes to low-income jobs, at least initially. Not sure it would suggest the long-term solution is reducing or eliminating labor floors as the best social solution like it seems the blogger above prefers. It seems to open up just as many, if not more problems then it solves. Plus it just seems like a very inconclusive study to be pinning all your hopes and dreams on TBH.

 
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 02:29:18 AM by Nola »

Trent Dole

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7058 on: June 27, 2017, 04:31:26 AM »
Apparently there's lots of saber rattling going on towards Syria.
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Phoenix Dark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7059 on: June 27, 2017, 12:55:36 PM »
Also Biden ran for president twice and IIRC was never a serious contender in Iowa either time, so let's not make him into the Midwest White Guy Whisperer just quite yet.

If we're going to fantasize about some deus ex machina to save us from the current shitshow, it's more fun to talk about the pee tape.

I kinda view it a couple ways

1. If Biden had run in the democrat primary, he would have lost to Hillary
2. If Biden had run against Trump in the general election, he would have won

Basically Biden being able to beat Trump is a moot point because he couldn't beat Hillary. No one was going to beat her in the primary, in my view. This is NOT an endorsement of the idea that things were rigged, just the reality that she had the most establishment support, and I don't think Biden could have beaten her in the south where she has far more clout with black institutions (churches, organizers, etc). Yea she had all those advantages in 2008 too...but she lost to a historic politician who ran a perfect campaign. Biden is none of those things.

Biden has various interest ties, specifically to banking, but I firmly believe candidates overcome those things if they're likable/good at what they do. Hillary Clinton is incredibly unlikable and unrelatable to many people, meaning she has nothing to fall back on - you view her flaws first. Obama had clear Goldman Sachs ties, corporate ties, etc etc etc...nobody cared in 2008, and while more people cared in 2012 he still won with ease. Yes Obama is also a unicorn in many ways but you don't have to be one in order to overcome flaws and still win (W Bush 2004 comes to mind).

I don't like Cory Booker...but he's charismatic and likable enough to overcome corporate ties. So is Kamala Harris, so Chris Murphy, etc. And I think Biden is more likable than all of them, he would have actually campaigned in the midwest, he's not married to a sexual predator so it would be pretty easy to slam Trump on that shit, etc etc etc. And since he wouldn't have glaring flaws with working class voters (when compared to Hillary), his VP would likely be better for the base. Imagine a Biden Booker ticket for instance. Again I don't like Booker, but having a VP who can excite young+brown people would be a good thing.

010

TakingBackSunday

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7060 on: June 27, 2017, 01:24:45 PM »
That is the ticket I think makes the most sense, to me.
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Human Snorenado

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7061 on: June 27, 2017, 01:38:58 PM »
Biden will be too old to run in 2020. He was pretty much too old to run last year.

Booker, Harris, Gillibrand. Those are the three I expect to run. I don't particularly like any of them, but I think Booker is a better campaigner, Harris is more of an unknown which could work to her advantage (see: Obama, Barack) and Gillibrand has done the best job positioning herself to run. Of course, Booker is single and god knows what's going on skeleton in his closet wise, Harris is an unknown which can cut both ways, and Gillibrand is apparently not the most enthusiastic campaigner, which doesn't always work out well. (see: Clinton, Hillary)

Who knows, though. Maybe we actually elect Al fucking Franken.
yar

Atramental

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7062 on: June 27, 2017, 02:09:21 PM »
Goddamnit, Dufus. :comeon

HyperZoneWasAwesome

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7063 on: June 27, 2017, 02:44:46 PM »
[...] having a VP who can excite [...]

I read some opinion a while ago that VPs basically don't matter. You can't really get people to be excited over the VP so it was argued VP should be a safe choice. I think I agree with that. People don't care about VP. Compared to the nominee they get very little attention. Absolutely no one cared about Kaine or Pence even though lieberalz took issue with Pence lying his balls off during the debate, all the attention always goes back to the nominee.

The only actual attention for the VP is past the election when they're the VP and they do stuff. I think lieberalz enjoyed Biden as VP despite gaffes and shit. So VP choice matters but not during the election. Avoiding controversy like Palin seems to me vastly more important.

Obama was still somewhat unknown in 2004-2005 so I think the 2020 nominee could easily be someone we don't know about now.
I disagree. Trump getting Pence was actually a pretty clever move. It married him to the GOP's base of religious conservatives, not that he wasn't already doing well with them, but its easy to imagine them wavering even just a bit whcih could have been fatal in the case of his personally abhorrent behavior.

And Kaine was a terrible pick for Hilary. Sure, he might have been fine for governing, but he did nothing at all to excite the progressive hase that she was bleeding support from. She might not have wanted to be outshined by her VP,but getting Elizabeth Warren or Tony Perez on the ticket, both of whom were in contention, really would have helped to salve the wounds of the Bsrnie bisters and Obama/Trump switchers.

And alsAnd as an aside, I dont expect Franken to run in 2020. But his fellow Minnesota Senator Amy Klobuchar very well might (why the hell else does she go to Iowa every few months now).

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7064 on: June 27, 2017, 02:55:16 PM »
Perez would have won over Bernie folks? Did I hallucinate the DNC chair election?

Let's Cyber

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7065 on: June 27, 2017, 02:58:24 PM »
Listening to Rick Perry right now is making me significantly dumber and I wasn't all that sharp to begin with.  :(

FStop7

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7066 on: June 27, 2017, 02:58:52 PM »
Kaine seems like he's a good man but a VP who can't even carry his home state is USELESS.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7067 on: June 27, 2017, 03:01:00 PM »
Kaine seems like he's a good man but a VP who can't even carry his home state is USELESS.

what?

FStop7

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7068 on: June 27, 2017, 03:05:22 PM »
Kaine seems like he's a good man but a VP who can't even carry his home state is USELESS.

what?

Serious brain fade.  I would have sworn that Trump took Virginia. 

HyperZoneWasAwesome

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7069 on: June 27, 2017, 03:38:47 PM »
Perez would have won over Bernie folks? Did I hallucinate the DNC chair election?
Woulda still been better than Kaine, his progressive bona fides are good, and litterly the only reason that crowd was salty was because Bern's pick didnt win it.

And Trump might have well won Virginia, narrow friggin margin and all.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7070 on: June 27, 2017, 06:31:08 PM »
Booker would have been a better choice than Perez IMO.

I have nothing against Kaine and I thought he was a good/obvious choice at the time, so I won't rewrite history/posts. In hindsight Hillary didn't excite the people she needed to. I'm still amazed at the drop off of support in liberal powerhouse districts here in Michigan. Not just Detroit but the university areas...that's where that margin (12,000 iirc?) could have easily come from if people were motivated/excited by the candidate. I think Biden-Booker would have won here. I think Sanders would have won here easily.

010

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7071 on: June 27, 2017, 06:54:17 PM »
[...] having a VP who can excite [...]

I read some opinion a while ago that VPs basically don't matter. You can't really get people to be excited over the VP so it was argued VP should be a safe choice. I think I agree with that. People don't care about VP. Compared to the nominee they get very little attention. Absolutely no one cared about Kaine or Pence even though lieberalz took issue with Pence lying his balls off during the debate, all the attention always goes back to the nominee.

The only actual attention for the VP is past the election when they're the VP and they do stuff. I think lieberalz enjoyed Biden as VP despite gaffes and shit. So VP choice matters but not during the election. Avoiding controversy like Palin seems to me vastly more important.

Obama was still somewhat unknown in 2004-2005 so I think the 2020 nominee could easily be someone we don't know about now.




I remember this study that said Palin cost McCain 2 million votes.
But I also have always wondered how much her presence helped motivate the base that was before very tepid on McCain and to an extent even getting a bit disillusioned with Bush and the GOP in general.

I do at times wonder if she had picked Bernie for example, would she of been able to 1.) do a better job bridging the enthusiasm gap with the base and keeping more of the Obama/Trump voters and 2.) force the media narrative to more actively give her moderate populist platform more of a spotlight. Helping carve out a positive identity she failed to really capture with Tim Kaine.



thisismyusername

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thisismyusername

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7073 on: June 28, 2017, 12:38:31 AM »
I do at times wonder if she had picked Bernie for example, would she of been able to 1.) do a better job bridging the enthusiasm gap with the base and keeping more of the Obama/Trump voters

Maybe with some folks. Personally, I don't/didn't trust her. Knowing her history of flip-flopping on policies when it suits her/getting the most voters. Along with her being somewhat (if not downright) "hawk"ish in foreign policy? Hellllllll no.

Obama's "don't do stupid shit" foreign policy would've been ignored like it is with Trump if the position was under her, I feel. That's just me speaking personally. As it is, I don't think a lot of Gen-Y (or whatever you wanna call them) were enthused by her. She seemed "fake" and her policies (for those that knew them) didn't excite or were against Gen-Y's best-wishes for the most part.

Probably doesn't make sense for her deepest supporters (read: Jack) but that's how it is with some of the detractors.

brawndolicious

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7074 on: June 28, 2017, 01:50:32 AM »
TIMU, that's an image the first female president will always pursue whoever it ends up being. Because they don't want anyone to think they are easily intimidated or impressionable.

Now we have Trump who is not hawkish at all. He is actually easily intimidated and impressionable. That's the difference between an amateur and a person who'll actually think about what effects policy has, such as maybe a lifelong politician.

It's a lot better to have somebody competent than trustworthy become president as it's in their own self-interests for the country to be doing well.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7075 on: June 28, 2017, 10:29:23 AM »
I'm of the opinion that modern VP candidates can only temporarily stem the bleeding. That's what Palin did for McCain.

Otherwise it's about picking someone to serve as an adviser (especially in a weak area or six) who can provide management assistance and knows Washington. Gore, Cheney, Biden, and Pence all fit this model; Lieberman, Ryan and Kaine would have.

If you're relying on your VP to help you bring out the base and push you over, either trying to win religious conservatives after you've spent 20 years bashing them through someone like Palin or young minorities through picking essentially a random black or hispanic dude would have done for Hillary (especially when we had a black President) you've probably got bigger problems in your campaign.

Picking Bernie as VP would have been the same mistake, he'd have to muzzle his message to fit her campaign for one thing.

And in one way, the message you're sending is that "your vote is so important to us that we hope you hope our candidate is going to die in office and you get someone you like" which I'm sure plenty of conservatives would have been fine with had McCain won.

VomKriege

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7076 on: June 28, 2017, 11:47:12 AM »
TICKTOCK
BOOM
POOP DROPPO

Trump Will attend the July 14th military parade in Paris, France.
Have you noticed how Trump is not criticizing France much ? Collusion ? Or worse...
ὕβρις

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7077 on: June 28, 2017, 11:54:38 AM »
you know who else attended a military parade through Paris

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Tsar Alexander I
[close]

Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7078 on: June 28, 2017, 01:32:33 PM »
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/880049704620494848

How far into the fever swamps do I need to be to understand this tweet? :confused
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Brehvolution

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| DEEP STATE OPPO DROPPO
« Reply #7079 on: June 28, 2017, 01:35:54 PM »
I'm becoming more and more pissed off that Obama didn't shit all over fox news every day during his time. But then I remembered what a classy and dignified president is supposed to look like.
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