Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 6905307 times)

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Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13680 on: February 07, 2018, 08:40:09 PM »
- Little Marco
- Rocket Man
- Sloppy Steve
- Low Energy Jeb

Cadet Bone Spurs

I'd say it's a solid first effort. Doesn't quite roll off the tongue as well as some of Trump's greatest hits, but certainly has a bit more bite and depth than most of em. It's not just some adjective in front of a name, so points for creativity.  I'd say a solid 8/10.



Joe Molotov

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Atramental

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13682 on: February 07, 2018, 08:58:43 PM »
Eww. It’s like looking at the back of Darth Vader’s head in ESB.  :doge

curly

  • cultural maoist
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13683 on: February 07, 2018, 09:01:33 PM »
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/02/jordan-peterson-enlightenment-nietzsche-alt-right
you gotta love the attempt to fight fire with fire here:
Quote
Our tragedy as human beings is much more banal than Peterson’s romanticism would have it. We do contend with a fundamental irrationalism, but it doesn’t come from an inherently unknowable and mysterious world. Rather, it comes from capitalism.
bold strategy cotton

the shuja haider piece in viewpoint was much better imo

a lot of the stuff jacobin publishes feels quite flimsy

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13684 on: February 07, 2018, 09:12:57 PM »
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/02/jordan-peterson-enlightenment-nietzsche-alt-right

the amount of hit jobs on Peterson lately is beyond even what I'd expect

Judging by what's been written, it appears what they disagree with him the most about is his advice to tell the truth.

Boredfrom

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13685 on: February 07, 2018, 09:18:03 PM »
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/02/jordan-peterson-enlightenment-nietzsche-alt-right

the amount of hit jobs on Peterson lately is beyond even what I'd expect

Why? The guy is in the spotlight right now. And that piece at least seems to remember that not everyone see him as alt right.

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13686 on: February 07, 2018, 09:21:07 PM »
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/02/jordan-peterson-enlightenment-nietzsche-alt-right

the amount of hit jobs on Peterson lately is beyond even what I'd expect

Why? The guy is in the spotlight right now.

I didn't say attention surprised me, but the level and amount of hit jobs. Why the freak out?

Boredfrom

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13687 on: February 07, 2018, 09:23:08 PM »
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/02/jordan-peterson-enlightenment-nietzsche-alt-right

the amount of hit jobs on Peterson lately is beyond even what I'd expect

Why? The guy is in the spotlight right now.

I didn't say attention surprised me, but the level and amount of hit jobs. Why the freak out?

Because Youtube, Trump and culture wars.

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13688 on: February 07, 2018, 09:25:51 PM »
What do you mean by youtube? As in his ability to speak outside of mainstream media threatens them?

Boredfrom

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13689 on: February 07, 2018, 09:31:05 PM »
What do you mean by youtube? As in his ability to speak outside of mainstream media threatens them?

I think it has more to do with him becoming mainstream.

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13690 on: February 07, 2018, 09:33:39 PM »
so just popularity jealousy

But their response only makes him more popular. It's like they learned nothing from what went on at the Chan 4 interview.

Boredfrom

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13691 on: February 07, 2018, 09:38:27 PM »
so just popularity jealousy

Well, I dont think is as simple as that. Also, I kind of doubt that Peterson is not enjoying the attention right now,

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13692 on: February 07, 2018, 09:42:57 PM »
It's making him a lot of money. He's probably due for a modesty gutcheck.

jakefromstatefarm

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13693 on: February 07, 2018, 10:28:42 PM »
the shuja haider piece in viewpoint was much better imo
*looks up shuja haider piece in viewpoint* yeah this is way better

Judging by what's been written, it appears what they disagree with him the most about is his advice to tell the truth.
Idk, the thinkpieces ive seen don’t primarily address the imperative to speak truth to power or really any of the other perfectly banal self help maxims he pushes. Rather, they’re mostly aimed at the (at times explicit) implications of his thought, viz. traditionalism wrt gender/social atomism/an incoherent epistemology that I’ve remarked on earlier, along with the presuppositions he uses to justify them, namely, a crude neo-Darwinian understanding of the summum bonum, naive and outdated essentializing/hypostasizing of cultures that recapitulates old Cold War tropes of individualism v. collectivism, and a reading of philosophical history since Kant that borders on the delusional. It’s usually those points, potentially including additional charges of charlatanry/profiteering, that I’ve seen at stake over the past month.

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13694 on: February 07, 2018, 10:47:19 PM »
None of the criticisms are about that. They open up with ad hominem attacks and sometimes criticize his use of the term post-modernism.

Thus, my joke about telling the truth. The articles routinely open up with lies and misrepresentation, and then end with lies and misrepresentation. The argument/criticism is over interpretation of theory vs actuality of the ideas in practice.  Peterson rails against what occurs from the ideas as they've been put forth in practice, which I hope you understand.

To claim the hit jobs on him are anything at all like what you just vomited up is lol.

El Babua

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13695 on: February 07, 2018, 10:52:20 PM »
Honestly, the gist of what Peterson says is pretty harmless by philosophical standards.

The weird cult of personality surrounding him feeding off on the opposition he gets is pretty entertaining at least.

jakefromstatefarm

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13696 on: February 07, 2018, 11:41:50 PM »
None of the criticisms are about that.
really? From the jacobin piece:
Quote
Echoing the worst features of nineteenth-century social Darwinism, Peterson uses this example of lobster hierarchy to analyze human society.
Quote
Peterson’s positivism — the dualism between descriptive facts and values — makes his Nietzscheanism possible. If the world is an atomized chaos of facts, it needs a strong will to define it and impose order.
Quote
When we theoretically confront Peterson, we need to do more than refute his pseudo-scientific claims, his bad pop psychology, and his Cold War–inflected version of history.
Quote
Ironically, Peterson’s critique of postmodernism is itself very postmodern.
So, check neo-Darwinism, check atomism, check Cold War tropes, check ironically incoherent epistemology. The claims are clearly there, you don’t get to dismiss as lies and misrepresentations an argument you’ve just failed to read.

Quote
sometimes criticize his use of the term post-modernism.
so they are about his understanding of philosophical history? Or are they not really about that but something else?
Quote
The argument/criticism is over interpretation of theory vs actuality of the ideas in practice.  Peterson rails against what occurs from the ideas as they've been put forth in practice, which I hope you understand.
are the ideas in question here moral relativism, a rejection of biological sex, and/or constraints on the freedom of expression? And they purportedly germinate in 20th century Marxist thinkers -maybe the Frankfurt school- travel through the French poststructuralists and eventually end up in the heads of student activists today? Because i can tell you, that causal chain is a lot harder to demonstrate than it looks, and Peterson hasn’t provided a convincing case for it.

Honestly, the gist of what Peterson says is pretty harmless by philosophical standards.
the gist of what he says is an apologia for reactionary ‘dominance heirarchies’. It’s also at turns baseless, incoherent, and superficial.

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13697 on: February 08, 2018, 12:55:47 AM »
There are hierarchies. Don't get what the anger there is about.

The base of these articles is "Peterson is alt-right". The viewpoint article compares him to Logan Paul for some assbackwards reason. They sprinkle in some ideas in there, but its slander through and through.

Just answer this: Why do they open with slander and lies? And. generally, sprinkle in the lies throughout?

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13698 on: February 08, 2018, 12:59:13 AM »
Why is anyone trying to ascribe an artificial construct like "human hierarchy" in a non-ironic sense is beyond me.

We're not Lions in the wild.  :yeshrug Hierarchy's tend to only work when actually measurable strengths lead to dominant people.

Trump kinda proves nothing really matters as long as you're born into it; which is not how a proper hierarchy works. It's why the kingdoms of old failed.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 01:06:27 AM by thehunter116 »

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13699 on: February 08, 2018, 01:17:08 AM »
Hierarchies are discussed because we are still biological creatures. I like to say that each of us is a human being and a human creature. Nature, evolution and biology is brought up because when we decide to fight all these natures it tends to blow up in our face.

Normally, Peterson argues biology when people say our hierarchies are social constructs and arbitrary. The point being that these are real factors in how we behave and act. We have hard wiring after so many years of evolution. Rather than just throwing them out, we have to consider why they exist.

Actual social hierarchies for humans are complex, but some of the factors are not uniquely human. Reciprocity theory matters a great deal. The way up/down in a group works levels far beyond a simple strong man idea.

curly

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13700 on: February 08, 2018, 01:23:35 AM »
There are hierarchies. Don't get what the anger there is about.

The base of these articles is "Peterson is alt-right". The viewpoint article compares him to Logan Paul for some assbackwards reason. They sprinkle in some ideas in there, but its slander through and through.

Just answer this: Why do they open with slander and lies? And. generally, sprinkle in the lies throughout?

damn this is "mandark just asked me a question" levels of weaseling out

deepest throat

  • Junior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13701 on: February 08, 2018, 01:31:10 AM »
guaranteed within 6 months peterson will start selling brain pills like every other mega-chud

curly

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13702 on: February 08, 2018, 01:33:42 AM »
guaranteed within 6 months peterson will start selling brain pills like every other mega-chud

it's where the money is with that demographic

El Babua

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13703 on: February 08, 2018, 01:46:05 AM »
idk, I'd be pretty content just getting 50k a month for telling dudes to clean their room.

Kara

  • It was all going to be very admirable and noble and it would show us - philosophically - what it means to be human.
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13704 on: February 08, 2018, 03:22:34 AM »
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/02/jordan-peterson-enlightenment-nietzsche-alt-right
you gotta love the attempt to fight fire with fire here:
Quote
Our tragedy as human beings is much more banal than Peterson’s romanticism would have it. We do contend with a fundamental irrationalism, but it doesn’t come from an inherently unknowable and mysterious world. Rather, it comes from capitalism.
bold strategy cotton

As much as it pains me to defend the paint for Girondist--and insinuate that the University of Arizona is something other than an NBA G League franchise--you remind me of an observation David Harvey once made, "incarcerated black prisoners in Maryland found much of what Marx had to say obvious [in my study groups] while elite students at Johns Hopkins took an awful lot of persuading."

seagrams hotsauce

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13705 on: February 08, 2018, 12:03:25 PM »
Bush Jr scoring an easy layup on Trump for emerging from the woodwork to thank undocumented immigrants for being a great exploitable resource is some peak white people shit  :yuck

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13706 on: February 08, 2018, 12:34:38 PM »
At least he’s not painting his feet again.

jakefromstatefarm

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13707 on: February 08, 2018, 03:48:12 PM »
you remind me of an observation David Harvey once made, "incarcerated black prisoners in Maryland found much of what Marx had to say obvious [in my study groups] while elite students at Johns Hopkins took an awful lot of persuading."
i fully acknowledge that my approach can appear (and maybe is) tone deaf at times, in response I only have two things to say: i) knowledge/truth claims about the social are necessarily perspectival, I’m not an incarcerated black prisoner in Maryland and that has real consequences for the kinds of inferences I draw/prioritize -the appeal to empathy/inclusivity is well taken; ii) I’m finding myself more and more endorsing a more globalized grievance with modernity than the standard reductively materialist Marxist account (among others). Technics, the affirmation of the impersonal polis over the communitas, immaentization/disenchantment are as much attendant features of modernity as capital is and I’m not convinced that the former frictionlessly supervene on the latter. The reasons people give for what they do matter and any master narrative that doesn’t include them is at best half complete.

Quote
and insinuate that the University of Arizona is something other than an NBA G League franchise
if you did, I wouldn’t protest too much. they’re running a racket; it was in the library, not the classroom, that I figured out how to be a student.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
we’re like 100-something on kenpom in defensive rating and the offense for the past 9 years has been just whipping the ball around the perimeter until someone sets a high ball screen. The best athlete to ever step foot on campus is gonna leave this year after what is sure to be another sweet sixteen season. I wanna stick my face in a blender.:snoop 
[close]

I'm a Puppy!

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13708 on: February 08, 2018, 04:23:09 PM »
Aaaaand the dow's lower than it was on Monday now.
que

etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13709 on: February 08, 2018, 04:27:56 PM »
or Black Pirsoners are the type to find Nation of Islam and Yakub stories compelling


agrajag

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13711 on: February 08, 2018, 04:40:27 PM »
In bigger news, Yum! Brands Inc. stock is down 4.73%

Fast food enthusiast forum thebore.com is in tatters.

I'm a Puppy!

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13712 on: February 08, 2018, 04:49:56 PM »
Holy crap! we're at a Dow of -$977,000?! This is worse than I thought!
que

Great Rumbler

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13713 on: February 08, 2018, 04:54:36 PM »
Bush Jr scoring an easy layup on Trump for emerging from the woodwork to thank undocumented immigrants for being a great exploitable resource is some peak white people shit  :yuck

:nope Bush Jr.
dog

chronovore

  • relapsed dev
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13714 on: February 08, 2018, 06:28:22 PM »
Just read this, posited by someone on facebook: "The definition of a Libertarian is a guy who's never had anything bad happen to him."
:heartbeat

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13715 on: February 08, 2018, 06:29:59 PM »
Gotdamn, I hope we get that sweet sweet stagflation. I got a lot of fixed rate long term debt.

Nintex

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13716 on: February 08, 2018, 06:32:13 PM »
https://twitter.com/LevineJonathan/status/961693505486761985

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/961705126279905280

While the DOW is tanking the White House is addressing more pressing matters. Such as Amarosa.
🤴

agrajag

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13717 on: February 08, 2018, 06:35:34 PM »
Hire someone your already fired three times brehs  :neogaf

Nintex

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13718 on: February 08, 2018, 06:39:21 PM »
Too important political news to be left out to dry on the previous page. This is of historical importance.

https://twitter.com/LevineJonathan/status/961693505486761985

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/961705126279905280

While the DOW is tanking the White House is addressing more pressing matters. Such as Amarosa.


The Trump presidential library
🤴

toku

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Steve Contra

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vin

Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13722 on: February 08, 2018, 08:42:40 PM »
Benji explain
©@©™

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13723 on: February 08, 2018, 09:10:02 PM »
This has been an entertaining tire fire/train-wreck kinda of day.


And now our budget is being held hostage by Rand Paul and his nefarious coke quails.



 :neogaf :lawd :phil

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13724 on: February 08, 2018, 10:19:37 PM »
Did he add a significant figure to a dollar amount to make it look bigger?

come get your boy, benji

curly

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13725 on: February 08, 2018, 10:23:49 PM »
keeping up with the benji theme on this page I'm withholding judgement re: the Omarosa situation until I get his take on it.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13726 on: February 08, 2018, 10:37:22 PM »
keeping up with the benji theme on this page I'm withholding judgement re: the Omarosa situation until I get his take on it.

You'd already have Benji's take on people like Omarosa if you read his* newsletter.
010



curly

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13729 on: February 09, 2018, 12:13:41 AM »
thought this was pretty interesting and aligns with what I've observed anecdotally: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/white-democrats-have-gotten-way-more-liberal-on-identity-issues/
Quote
Whites in the Democratic Party now see racism against people of color as a huge issue, increasingly perceiving it in a similar way to African-Americans and much differently than white Republicans. Similarly, men in the Democratic Party now see women as facing sexism in American society in numbers comparable to how Democratic women see the issue — and often in much greater degrees than Republican women.

Although I wonder (and the article discusses in its conclusion) how deeply these feelings are held among white male dems and if they'll persist when the specter of Trump and white nationalism recede from view.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13730 on: February 09, 2018, 12:21:21 AM »
More than half that movement happened before Trump announced his campaign. I'm inclined to give the bulk of the credit to BLM and its attendant activism.

Another concern is how much that's an artifact of, um, "racially conservative" white people changing their party identification.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13731 on: February 09, 2018, 12:35:33 AM »
Nah that's not a very good post.

curly

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13732 on: February 09, 2018, 12:40:19 AM »
Boogeyman is an accepted spelling you fascist

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13733 on: February 09, 2018, 12:51:26 AM »
"There are serious problems in US politics and we shouldn't let Russia be used to obscure that."

Sure. Absolutely. But that's not really an argument for letting Trump off the hook.

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13734 on: February 09, 2018, 01:27:28 AM »
Do you guys think Rand's neighbor beat him up because Rand started filibustering to him about the evils of budget deficits?

deepest throat

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13735 on: February 09, 2018, 02:17:17 AM »
Do you guys think Rand's neighbor beat him up because Rand started filibustering to him about the evils of budget deficits?

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13736 on: February 09, 2018, 08:04:15 AM »
Actually benjis post is remarkably shitty and self serving in the way it slowly moved the forklifts from “no collusion! ZRussi/ and trump did nothing” to  “So what if there was collusion? What’s REALLy important is America’s evilness... and Obama did exactly the same thing!”

It’s notable for a few reasons:
1) this is basically a barely saber argument of what Trump/Nunes/whoever has been saying
2) it tacitly pivots away from his earlier assertions of essentially “Russia/Trump did nothing wrong” to “maybe they did do something wrong... but I don’t care anyway”
3) It fails to see that letting presidential candidates illegally enter conspiracies with a Foreign powers during elections with no consequences is likely to make America’s problems worse and not better.

I still love you though Benji.

Brehvolution

  • Until at last, I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin upon the mountainside.
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13737 on: February 09, 2018, 09:35:00 AM »
Quote
President Trump tweeted that he signed the bill, officially ending the second shutdown of his presidency.

“Just signed Bill,” he wrote. “Our Military will now be stronger than ever before. We love and need our Military and gave them everything — and more. First time this has happened in a long time. Also means JOBS, JOBS, JOBS!”

I'll never get over how this idiot says things.
©ZH

Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13738 on: February 09, 2018, 11:29:24 AM »
Do you guys think Rand's neighbor beat him up because Rand started filibustering to him about the evils of budget deficits?

He probably just got tired of his stupid fucking face.
©@©™

Boredfrom

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #13739 on: February 09, 2018, 11:34:56 AM »
It sounds like he really wants his military parade.