Corona Thread |OT| Nu variant, who dis?

[Great Rumbler]

Yes. I should blame the unvaccinated for this. While living in one of the most vaccinated cities. Which just had its highest positivity rate since this started. Right.

(Image removed from quote.)

You do realize that 20% of 8.5 million is actually a lot of people, right?

[Great Rumbler]

Back what claims?

A personal statement needs sources now? Why are liberals like this?

I've posted multiple non-Fox News on this very page

C O P E

"Everyone is over this!"

Got a source for that?

"Well that's just a personal statement, I don't need a source."

[Lonewulfeus]

Back what claims?

A personal statement needs sources now? Why are liberals like this?

I've posted multiple non-Fox News on this very page

C O P E

Most Americans feel the same way and there's nothing you can do to change that. All of us are over it except the terminally online it appears.

I didn’t realize you personally spoke for Most Americans.

[Himu]

Back what claims?

A personal statement needs sources now? Why are liberals like this?

I've posted multiple non-Fox News on this very page

C O P E

Most Americans feel the same way and there's nothing you can do to change that. All of us are over it except the terminally online it appears.

I didn’t realize you personally spoke for Most Americans.

Americans' Worry About Catching COVID-19 Drops to Record Low

https://news.gallup.com/poll/344183/americans-worry-catching-covid-drops-record-low.aspx

Psychology into why Americans don't care about Covid deaths anymore

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/09/covid-death-toll-us-empathy-elderly/616379/

Reddit thread on no one caring anymore and empathy burnout on Too afraid to ask, probably because they were scared liberals and leftists were going to shame them like they always do

https://www.reddit.com/r/TooAfraidToAsk/comments/o3wh5w/anyone_else_just_not_care_about_covid_anymore/

"EMPATHY!!!" This is what happens when you don't internalize the ways of mankind and think people are super humans capable of infinite empathy. Covid hospitalizations, cases, and deaths? Looks like a number to me. What's funny is you lack the empathy for those who are psychologically maxed out. Your "empathy", if it were, is only selective. Because you don't actually have real empathy. Only fear.

[Coffee Dog]

You say you are a caring person, and yet you will not hold the door open for me while I call you a piece of garbage! SUSPICIOUS

[Lonewulfeus]

Back what claims?

A personal statement needs sources now? Why are liberals like this?

I've posted multiple non-Fox News on this very page

C O P E

Most Americans feel the same way and there's nothing you can do to change that. All of us are over it except the terminally online it appears.

I didn’t realize you personally spoke for Most Americans.

Americans' Worry About Catching COVID-19 Drops to Record Low

https://news.gallup.com/poll/344183/americans-worry-catching-covid-drops-record-low.aspx

Psychology into why Americans don't care about Covid deaths anymore

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/09/covid-death-toll-us-empathy-elderly/616379/

Reddit thread on no one caring anymore and empathy burnout on Too afraid to ask, probably because they were scared liberals and leftists were going to shame them like they always do

https://www.reddit.com/r/TooAfraidToAsk/comments/o3wh5w/anyone_else_just_not_care_about_covid_anymore/

"EMPATHY!!!" This is what happens when you don't internalize the ways of mankind and think people are super humans capable of infinite empathy. Covid hospitalizations, cases, and deaths? Looks like a number to me. What's funny is you lack the empathy for those who are psychologically maxed out. Your "empathy", if it were, is only selective. Because you don't actually have real empathy. Only fear.

(Image removed from quote.)

The Gallup article is from April before Delta really even hit the US and we were getting vaccinated, hope was high then it’s not really representative of how people are feeling now.  The Atlantic article is about how people don’t give a shit about old people and black people dying and explaining how that relates to covid, slightly more relevant but also is a clear lack of empathy period as racism tends to be.

I didn’t even bother clicking the Reddit link cause it’s fucking Reddit and is hardy representative of most Americans.  Talk about always online lol

What is covid even stopping you from doing right now?  Serious question.  You seem to just complain about how it’s portrayed in the media but other than having to wear a mask are you impacted in any way?  I’m genuinely curious.

[Himu]

Rumbler, I remembered while cooking dinner that your grandfather died from COVID. At the time I told you I was sorry about that and I'm still sorry about it. This has nothing to do with you or anyone else. It's the constant media cycle of fear. Every time a new variant comes out it's new hysteria with the threat of lockdowns. I can't take it. I have no idea or why you look at data that personally affected you day in and day out. It speaks well of your character that you still care so much when so many of us have drifted in apathy. Keep it up and being a bright light.

[Himu]

Back what claims?

A personal statement needs sources now? Why are liberals like this?

I've posted multiple non-Fox News on this very page

C O P E

Most Americans feel the same way and there's nothing you can do to change that. All of us are over it except the terminally online it appears.

I didn’t realize you personally spoke for Most Americans.

Americans' Worry About Catching COVID-19 Drops to Record Low

https://news.gallup.com/poll/344183/americans-worry-catching-covid-drops-record-low.aspx

Psychology into why Americans don't care about Covid deaths anymore

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/09/covid-death-toll-us-empathy-elderly/616379/

Reddit thread on no one caring anymore and empathy burnout on Too afraid to ask, probably because they were scared liberals and leftists were going to shame them like they always do

https://www.reddit.com/r/TooAfraidToAsk/comments/o3wh5w/anyone_else_just_not_care_about_covid_anymore/

"EMPATHY!!!" This is what happens when you don't internalize the ways of mankind and think people are super humans capable of infinite empathy. Covid hospitalizations, cases, and deaths? Looks like a number to me. What's funny is you lack the empathy for those who are psychologically maxed out. Your "empathy", if it were, is only selective. Because you don't actually have real empathy. Only fear.

(Image removed from quote.)

The Gallup article is from April before Delta really even hit the US and we were getting vaccinated, hope was high then it’s not really representative of how people are feeling now.  The Atlantic article is about how people don’t give a shit about old people and black people dying and explaining how that relates to covid, slightly more relevant but also is a clear lack of empathy period as racism tends to be.

I didn’t even bother clicking the Reddit link cause it’s fucking Reddit and is hardy representative of most Americans.  Talk about always online lol

What is covid even stopping you from doing right now?  Serious question.  You seem to just complain about how it’s portrayed in the media but other than having to wear a mask are you impacted in any way?  I’m genuinely curious.

I don't know what to tell you. If you think people didn't care in April when we didn't even have boosters then what makes you think they'll care now? My mom and grandma and family just came from a cruise and they've been locked in their houses for months. My roommate, one of the most covid conscious people I know is now on a trip in the middle of Omicron. Woman I'm talking to is preparing to a take a trip to Bangladesh with her sister and friends after their whole house got infected with Covid. Her sister is already there living her best life when she had Covid last week and was worried about whether the lack of smell or taste ruining her trip. All of these people are Covid conscious faithful Democrats. Everyone and their mother went home or did something for Thanksgiving or Christmas. My other roommate has her partner over.

As per TSA, plane ridership is almost to 2019 levels by a smidge even in the Age of Omicron.

https://www.tsa.gov/coronavirus/passenger-throughput

Travel has rebounded.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/travel-tsa-air-omicron-covid-christmas-eve

People are traveling even as cases increase. Most people have moved on and are living our lives.

Why do I need to supply a source no one cares about Covid anyways? What are you even arguing over? It's fucking pathetic. What argument do you even win? What does it prove? It's another liberal virtue signal, proving me right about liberals and your malfunction. If the pandemic has taught many of us anything it's that we have one life and none of your empty posturing is changing that.

I might take a trip to Philadelphia this weekend for New Years and grab myself a halal Cheesesteak.





Rumbler? I have empathy for him. I know his story. Mr Gundam had a heart surgery. He has a reason to give a shit. Chronovore has an elderly mom. He has a reason to give a shit. I know their stories. Yours I don't. Right now I just see a fear based taco.

[Lonewulfeus]

Maybe one day we can sit around a fire (or go to a Mets game) and I’ll tell you all about my family and you can let me know if the way I feel about things is ok

[Himu]

I'm down for a Mets game if you're down for hearing how I needed religion to survive a scary pandemic intact and how the overall liberal/progressive landscape of NYC made me question liberal policies to the point to where I realized the truth of conservatism. I've unfortunately still not been to Citi Field. Going to Queens is a bitch.

[Himu]

Holy shit

[Propagandhim]

About the only truth in that video is Gates' role in impeding global vaccination - even then, exaggerated.  Ultimately the pharmaceutical companies are the limiting factor in that one.  Other than that, the lie that Fauci is amassing wealth through vaccinations or the strawman that it isn't worth getting vaccinated to protect the immunocompromised, elderly, and to a lesser extent, the general population, or alleviate the burden on the healthcare system because you can't beat a pandemic?  It's a cost/risk analysis - vaccines/boosters, which have more or less existed in the same form and distributed the same way since the dawn of Pasteur's bacteriology, globally, are nothing new and  are free and quick and convenient measures to handle this problem.  This isn't complicated.  And there's nothing sinister here. 

https://newsnodes.com/us

Hospitalization data is interesting:  5,500 new hospitalizations since yesterday.  Total up to 90,000.  It took me 2 minutes to get a booster at Walmart, so the elderly people in my life that I love don't become part of this statistic.  Already have an extended family member that died from this in the hospital   I'll take a 2 minute time cost visit to Walmart and the risk of a chance scenario that I'm being played as part of some malicious global conspiracy (see: Dore claiming the death rates are non-serious) to enrich pharmaceutical players to protect the elderly and immunocompromised people in my family and community and alleviate the burdens to hospitals.


On a side note: I don't appreciate being blatantly lied to despite easily accessible, public information:

https://twitter.com/JudiciaryGOP/status/1476629444869693441
   



Data is as follows so far:

 

[Uncle]

Holy shit

I watched this and it's kind of a silly disingenuous read of a specific moment

people laugh for a multitude of reasons and it's not possible to intuit the precise meaning of one moment like this unless the person tells you what was going through their head in their own words (and even then, if you insist on not believing them then literally nothing could convince you)

he could've been thinking "ah geeze I've been asked this exact question before and now I have to go through this again"

could've been thinking "ah man this guy is going to get me in trouble here by raising this idea which is kind of a strawman"

there is a lot of talk about how the left constantly gives the most uncharitable read of anyone's statements, e.g. look at the Lindsay Ellis situation where she got in huge trouble for making a mild comparison between two random kids' media, Raya and Avatar, a year ago and nobody let her live it down, and in defending herself went on to say they are similar "if you squint" which led people to say HOLY SHIT SHE'S BLATANTLY MAKING AN ASIANS HAVE SLANTY EYES REFERENCE, WHAT A HORRIBLE PERSON

this hyper-focus on a nerdy weirdo laughing nervously during an interview has the same vibes

if there's something worth saying for/against then actually say it, and don't get into deep reads on whether kamala's eye twitched offensively or whatever

[benjipwns]

A year of vaccines and now we have record COVID numbers. It's almost as if the vaccine doesn't matter.

Other than doing what it's supposed to do which is dramatically improve your personal resistance to COVID with almost no cost.

You're again conflating multiple things to justify dramatic leaps of logic in conclusion. Vaccines, "liberal policies", statements by politicians, natural progression of pandemics, statements by media members, etc.

There's also plenty to criticize without needing to invent suspect motives for other people so that you can then attack them.

[Himu]

A year of vaccines and now we have record COVID numbers. It's almost as if the vaccine doesn't matter.

Other than doing what it's supposed to do which is dramatically improve your personal resistance to COVID with almost no cost.

You're again conflating multiple things to justify dramatic leaps of logic in conclusion. Vaccines, "liberal policies", statements by politicians, natural progression of pandemics, statements by media members, etc.

There's also plenty to criticize without needing to invent suspect motives for other people so that you can then attack them.

Fair enough. But liberals shame if you're anti-mandate. They mock. Which forces a so-called leap in logic. They are their own undoing.

[Tripon]

You hate Bill Gates because he's pushing vaccines to run his capitalist empire.

I hate Bill Gates because he's limiting the access to vaccines to the developed world to defend the law of patents, thus prolonging the Pandemic.

You and I are not the same.

[Himu]

It'S OnLy OnlInEe






Months and months and months of endless liberal virtue signaling. I'm so sick of it. I'M TIRED. Endless messaging from online, the media, in real life. It's hard to not eventually see it as an agenda. Yet you have no one to communicate this with for fear of judgement, so you start waging battles in your head and when you finally start speaking your goddamn mind people say you're making leaps in logic. Well maybe if liberals curated an environment where people can speak freely maybe people wouldn't be pushed into the more fringe movements. Bunch of dumb fucks.

You hate Bill Gates because he's pushing vaccines to run his capitalist empire.

I hate Bill Gates because he's limiting the access to vaccines to the developed world to defend the law of patents, thus prolonging the Pandemic.

You and I are not the same.

These are both the same.

[benjipwns]

But liberals shame if you're anti-mandate. They mock. Which forces a so-called leap in logic.

This is an incredible leap of logic.

[Great Rumbler]

Months and months and months of endless liberal virtue signaling. I'm so sick of it. I'M TIRED. Endless messaging from online, the media, in real life. It's hard to not eventually see it as an agenda. Yet you have no one to communicate this with for fear of judgement, so you start waging battles in your head and when you finally start speaking your goddamn mind people say you're making leaps in logic. Well maybe if liberals curated an environment where people can speak freely maybe people wouldn't be pushed into the more fringe movements. Bunch of dumb fucks.

And on the other side, you have people pushing narratives about how vaccines are actually population-control poison bombs, that Fauci is a money-grubbing demon with blood on his hands, that covid actually isn't even real, and taking a cocktail of stuff you grabbed from the local pharmacy is the real cure. You're hyper-focused on what "the libs" are saying, while seemingly completely ignoring that a great deal of this is attempting to push back at a counter-narrative [believed by a great deal of people] that is totally at odds with reality.

[Himu]

So to counter it you force your narrative in real life via mandates at the expense of personal liberty. On social media you control what is and isn't "misinformation" while the CDC flippantly changes its stances. Online you bully and coerce. In real life you virtue signal and present yourselves as the highest of morality. Lol nice counter attack.

Also it's the liberals in power. That's why they get my attention.

[Tripon]

These are both the same.

Nah.

If you think they are the same, then you also buy into the narrative that Bill Gates actions are justified. Let me put it this way, if the current COVID vaccines don't work, why are the pharma companies trying to protect their patents on it? Or share the knowledge and more importantly the process on how to create it with countries that still have a low percentage of vaccine protection?

[Himu]

Rumbler, I remembered while cooking dinner that your grandfather died from COVID. At the time I told you I was sorry about that and I'm still sorry about it. This has nothing to do with you or anyone else. It's the constant media cycle of fear.

People's grandparents are dying and you're wondering why there's fear? I think the consensus about Omicron is probably right but it took some convincing. I still think the moral thing to do is that, during a surge, we should try to slow the spread while people get boosters. It can take a while for people to be convinced to do something they actually want to do.

How long are we supposed to be scared? I'm sorry that most of us have moved on. Even my grandma enjoyed her cruise and she's done jack shit for the past year and a half. She could die any day. What's she supposed to do? Live her life in fear every day? This is the failure of liberalism and its emphasis on "safety". You align with Marxism while calling for liberal media fear based talking points. Omicron is weak. Fear? Scared of what? Most of us are vaccinated. What do Why want us to do? How long should we be scared? Serious fucking question. Most of us have done all we can. We've done everything right and there's still a new variant. At that point why care? Why should I stop living my goddamn life if the virus isn't stopping? It's been two years.

I see beyond the veil of your victimhood based tirade. "People's grandparents are dying" as some guilt based argument. Stop weaponizing emotions and fight with logic.

These are both the same.

Nah.

If you think they are the same, then you also buy into the narrative that Bill Gates actions are justified. Let me put it this way, if the current COVID vaccines don't work, why are the pharma companies trying to protect their patents on it? Or share the knowledge and more importantly the process on how to create it with countries that still have a low percentage of vaccine protection?

I very much think the vaccines work but I don't see the merit in infinite boosters, mandates;etc. Bill Gates, in his position, dehumanizes those not vaccinated in that video with his chuckles, with his grins.

[Tripon]

Rumbler, I remembered while cooking dinner that your grandfather died from COVID. At the time I told you I was sorry about that and I'm still sorry about it. This has nothing to do with you or anyone else. It's the constant media cycle of fear.

People's grandparents are dying and you're wondering why there's fear? I think the consensus about Omicron is probably right but it took some convincing. I still think the moral thing to do is that, during a surge, we should try to slow the spread while people get boosters. It can take a while for people to be convinced to do something they actually want to do.

How long are we supposed to be scared? I'm sorry that most of us have moved on. Even my grandma enjoyed her cruise and she's done jack shit for the past year and a half. She could die any day. What's she supposed to do? Live her life in fear every day? This is the failure of liberalism and its emphasis on "safety". You align with Marxism while calling for liberal media fear based talking points. Omicron is weak. Fear? Scared of what? Most of us are vaccinated. What do Why want us to do? How long should we be scared? Serious fucking question. Most of us have done all we can. We've done everything right and there's still a new variant. At that point why care? Why should I stop living my goddamn life if the virus isn't stopping? It's been two years.

I see beyond the veil of your victimhood based tirade. "People's grandparents are dying" as some guilt based argument. Stop weaponizing emotions and fight with logic.

These are both the same.

Nah.

If you think they are the same, then you also buy into the narrative that Bill Gates actions are justified. Let me put it this way, if the current COVID vaccines don't work, why are the pharma companies trying to protect their patents on it? Or share the knowledge and more importantly the process on how to create it with countries that still have a low percentage of vaccine protection?

I very much think the vaccines work but I don't see the merit in infinite boosters, mandates;etc. Bill Gates, in his position, dehumanizes those not vaccinated in that video with his chuckles, with his grins.

Then you can see why letting him control vaccine supply is hurting the people you want to stand for.

Also, who the fuck cares about Bill Gates chuckles, lmao.

[benjipwns]

A spate of new studies on lab animals and human tissues are providing the first indication of why the Omicron variant causes milder disease than previous versions of the coronavirus.

In studies on mice and hamsters, Omicron produced less damaging infections, often limited largely to the upper airway: the nose, throat and windpipe. The variant did much less harm to the lungs, where previous variants would often cause scarring and serious breathing difficulty.

“It’s fair to say that the idea of a disease that manifests itself primarily in the upper respiratory system is emerging,” said Roland Eils, a computational biologist at the Berlin Institute of Health, who has studied how coronaviruses infect the airway.

Experiments on animals can help clear up these ambiguities, because scientists can test Omicron on identical animals living in identical conditions. More than half a dozen experiments made public in recent days all pointed to the same conclusion: Omicron is milder than Delta and other earlier versions of the virus.

On Wednesday, a large consortium of Japanese and American scientists released a report on hamsters and mice that had been infected with either Omicron or one of several earlier variants. Those infected with Omicron had less lung damage, lost less weight and were less likely to die, the study found.

Although the animals infected with Omicron on average experienced much milder symptoms, the scientists were particularly struck by the results in Syrian hamsters, a species known to get severely ill with all previous versions of the virus.

“This was surprising, since every other variant has robustly infected these hamsters,” said Dr. Michael Diamond, a virologist at Washington University and a co-author of the study.

Several other studies on mice and hamsters have reached the same conclusion. (Like most urgent Omicron research, these studies have been posted online but have not yet been published in scientific journals.)

The reason that Omicron is milder may be a matter of anatomy. Dr. Diamond and his colleagues found that the level of Omicron in the noses of the hamsters was the same as in animals infected with an earlier form of the coronavirus. But Omicron levels in the lungs were one-tenth or less of the level of other variants.

A similar finding came from researchers at the University of Hong Kong who studied bits of tissue taken from human airways during surgery. In 12 lung samples, the researchers found that Omicron grew more slowly than Delta and other variants did.

The researchers also infected tissue from the bronchi, the tubes in the upper chest that deliver air from the windpipe to the lungs. And inside of those bronchial cells, in the first two days after an infection, Omicron grew faster than Delta or the original coronavirus did.

These findings will have to be followed up with further studies, such as experiments with monkeys or examination of the airways of people infected with Omicron. If the results hold up to scrutiny, they might explain why people infected with Omicron seem less likely to be hospitalized than those with Delta.

Coronavirus infections start in the nose or possibly the mouth and spread down the throat. Mild infections don’t get much further than that. But when the coronavirus reaches the lungs, it can do serious damage.

Immune cells in the lungs can overreact, killing off not just infected cells but uninfected ones. They can produce runaway inflammation, scarring the lung’s delicate walls. What’s more, the viruses can escape from the damaged lungs into the bloodstream, triggering clots and ravaging other organs.

Dr. Gupta suspects that his team’s new data give a molecular explanation for why Omicron doesn’t fare so well in the lungs.

Scientists know that part of Omicron’s contagiousness comes from its ability to evade antibodies, allowing it to easily get into cells of vaccinated people far more easily than other variants. But they suspect that Omicron has some other biological advantages as well.

Last week, researchers reported that the variant carries a mutation that may weaken so-called innate immunity, a molecular alarm that rapidly activates our immune system at the first sign of an invasion in the nose. But it will take more experiments to see if this is indeed one of Omicron’s secrets to success.

“It could be as simple as, this is a lot more virus in people’s saliva and nasal passages,” Dr. Cherry said. But there could be other explanations for its efficient spread: It could be more stable in the air, or better infect new hosts. “I think it’s really an important question,” she said.

[Himu]

[benjipwns]

https://twitter.com/jbarro/status/1476595478561230850
https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1476694134920556547

[benjipwns]

https://twitter.com/senatorshoshana/status/1476621622496927747

[Bebpo]

Almost everyone I know has covid or someone in their immediate family does. I wonder what the world will look like post-Omicron in a few months at this rate.

[Tripon]

The only person I know so far was my sister in law and that was back in September. Most of us are boosted, but I'm back to work on Monday, and I work at a high school.  Who knows much of a risk it'll be.

[benjipwns]

[Lonewulfeus]

Deaths are a lagging indicator Benjamin, you are better than this

[Potato]

Deaths are a lagging indicator Benjamin, you are better than this

They are all lagging indicators.

[benjipwns]

Deaths are a lagging indicator Benjamin, you are better than this

You're a lagging indicator!

[Madrun Badrun]

Lag this indicator *grabs crotch obnoxiously*

[Potato]

I've been trying to think of what a leading indicator would be for this kind of thing. Maybe examining attendance at public events or looking at social media post activity that is tagged in large groups. Monitoring increases in sales of cold/flu medications.

Looking at case numbers/hospitalisations/deaths are all lagging indicators, that's for sure.

What sort of leading indicators would work in your opinion?

[Raist]

I've been trying to think of what a leading indicator would be for this kind of thing. Maybe examining attendance at public events or looking at social media post activity that is tagged in large groups. Monitoring increases in sales of cold/flu medications.

Looking at case numbers/hospitalisations/deaths are all lagging indicators, that's for sure.

What sort of leading indicators would work in your opinion?

School schedules.

[Lonewulfeus]

I've been trying to think of what a leading indicator would be for this kind of thing. Maybe examining attendance at public events or looking at social media post activity that is tagged in large groups. Monitoring increases in sales of cold/flu medications.

Looking at case numbers/hospitalisations/deaths are all lagging indicators, that's for sure.

What sort of leading indicators would work in your opinion?

The only thing I was trying to say is that comparing cases now to deaths now doesn’t tell us anything about how deadly omicron will be in the US.  Current evidence from the UK and SA says it’s less deadly than delta but the demographics and largely complacent population probably means we won’t fare as well as they did.

[Madrun Badrun]

Friend got it

[Potato]

I've been trying to think of what a leading indicator would be for this kind of thing. Maybe examining attendance at public events or looking at social media post activity that is tagged in large groups. Monitoring increases in sales of cold/flu medications.

Looking at case numbers/hospitalisations/deaths are all lagging indicators, that's for sure.

What sort of leading indicators would work in your opinion?

The only thing I was trying to say is that comparing cases now to deaths now doesn’t tell us anything about how deadly omicron will be in the US.  Current evidence from the UK and SA says it’s less deadly than delta but the demographics and largely complacent population probably means we won’t fare as well as they did.

All good. I only commented because lead and lag indicators were one of the main topics of my work last year and I find lead indicators fascinating because of how difficult they are to define.

[Madrun Badrun]

Ontario going back into major restrictions.  Probably for the best but it sucks.  Pretty sure my office will close again   Ford also waited till the last minute to do this.  Schools were suppose to start on Friday and now delayed until the 17th.  Whole thing is a big mess that could have been planned for when we were doing this last spring.

eid:  yep office closing for the month 

[Kurt Russell]

[Rufus]

Ontario going back into major restrictions.  Probably for the best but it sucks.  Pretty sure my office will close again   Ford also waited till the last minute to do this.  Schools were suppose to start on Friday and now delayed until the 17th.  Whole thing is a big mess that could have been planned for when we were doing this last spring.

eid:  yep office closing for the month 

A recurring thought.

[Potato]

It's almost as if which politician is in charge doesn't really matter and the success or failure of responding to the pandemic is dictated by the quality of the responsible public institutions.

[Madrun Badrun]

No, delaying decisions and not preparing for them is on the politician in charge in this case.  For example, IRC, last week in a Friday press conference he took teachers by surprise by saying that students who want to do online learning will be allowed to starting this week.  There was no preparation for the online support and schools were told they would need to make videos for it.  Today he said school will not return until the 17th when it was supposed to by the 5th  -- there was no reason to leave this until 2 days before the set return date.  Shit like that is 100% preventable and up to the politician in charge and not the schools.   

I don't blame Ford for another wave but he is to blame for not preparing for it.  Other issues that are outside of institutions are that boosters have been hard to get.  Testing is nonexistent -- the positivity rate is over 30%, people are still waiting on pre-xmas results.  Both vaccination and testing is way below what we were doing a year ago because it was all rolled down when we thought delta was the end.  Schools no longer need to report covid stats.  Ontario never actually developed any real form of contact tracing.  etc.

[Potato]

No, delaying decisions and not preparing for them is on the politician in charge in this case.  For example, IRC, last week in a Friday press conference he took teachers by surprise by saying that students who want to do online learning will be allowed to starting this week.  There was no preparation for the online support and schools were told they would need to make videos for it.  Today he said school will not return until the 17th when it was supposed to by the 5th  -- there was no reason to leave this until 2 days before the set return date.  Shit like that is 100% preventable and up to the politician in charge and not the schools.   

I don't blame Ford for another wave but he is to blame for not preparing for it.  Other issues that are outside of institutions are that boosters have been hard to get.  Testing is nonexistent -- the positivity rate is over 30%, people are still waiting on pre-xmas results.  Both vaccination and testing is way below what we were doing a year ago because it was all rolled down when we thought delta was the end.  Schools no longer need to report covid stats.  Ontario never actually developed any real form of contact tracing.  etc.

It's two years in. What has your health department been doing?

[Madrun Badrun]

That's my point, these things are not dictated by the various public institutions.  Schools by themselves can not decide when classes start or not or if they are online or not.  Health agencies can advise the government on that, but they also don't dictate it.  The public health units can't decide to keep vaccine/testing clinics open if they are not given funding to do so.  Half these things were solved mid-way through delta, so it's not like they can't be done, the problem is Ford delaying decisions.

In contrast, UofT, which can make these kinds of decisions for themselves, said that learning would be online for Jan right before Xmas. 

[Potato]

That's my point, these things are not dictated by the various public institutions. Schools by themselves can not decide when classes start or not or if they are online or not.  Health agencies can advise the government on that, but they also don't dictate it.  The public health units can't decide to keep vaccine/testing clinics open if they are not given funding to do so.  Half these things were solved mid-way through delta, so it's not like they can't be done, the problem is Ford delaying decisions.

In contrast, UofT, which can make these kinds of decisions for themselves, said that learning would be online for Jan right before Xmas. 

While not being intimately familiar with Ontarian politics, all I know of Ford is that he's the coke head, right? Or am I thinking about someone different?

However, I'm pretty sure your government system is set up the same way ours is and, if that's the case, the health response should have been led by the public servants with the politicians just being talking heads for the most part. That being said, politicians can be a huge impediment to the process, particularly coked up ones...

Either way, I agree with you that late messaging like you described is disruptive to people and leads to public frustration with following health advice, which in turn leads to people disregarding that advice.

Good luck dealing with that type of shit. Hope things get better soon.

[Lonewulfeus]

That's my point, these things are not dictated by the various public institutions. Schools by themselves can not decide when classes start or not or if they are online or not.  Health agencies can advise the government on that, but they also don't dictate it.  The public health units can't decide to keep vaccine/testing clinics open if they are not given funding to do so.  Half these things were solved mid-way through delta, so it's not like they can't be done, the problem is Ford delaying decisions.

In contrast, UofT, which can make these kinds of decisions for themselves, said that learning would be online for Jan right before Xmas. 

While not being intimately familiar with Ontarian politics, all I know of Ford is that he's the coke head, right? Or am I thinking about someone different?

However, I'm pretty sure your government system is set up the same way ours is and, if that's the case, the health response should have been led by the public servants with the politicians just being talking heads for the most part. That being said, politicians can be a huge impediment to the process, particularly coked up ones...

Either way, I agree with you that late messaging like you described is disruptive to people and leads to public frustration with following health advice, which in turn leads to people disregarding that advice.

Good luck dealing with that type of shit. Hope things get better soon.

His brother Rob, former mayor of Toronto I believe, was the coke head.

[Rahxephon91]

Well I've come down with a cold over the last couple of days. I deal with a lot of Covid patients, so it was probably a matter of time.

I did take a rapid test and it said I was negative. So I hope this is just a regular cold. I don't want to get my mother sick and well this just had to happen on a week I took off.

[Himu]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/03/politics/eric-adams-teachers-union-nyc/index.html

[Himu]

Well I've come down with a cold over the last couple of days. I deal with a lot of Covid patients, so it was probably a matter of time.

I did take a rapid test and it said I was negative. So I hope this is just a regular cold. I don't want to get my mother sick and well this just had to happen on a week I took off.

Good luck!

[Madrun Badrun]

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/2022/01/03/ford-chaotic-response-to-omicron-is-squandering-public-trust-in-health-authorities.html

Ford’s chaotic response to Omicron is squandering public trust in health authorities

Amid all the twists and turns of this terrible pandemic, now in its third calendar year, one of the most vital tools to fight it has been the credibility of public authorities.

If the public is going to follow the ever-changing rules, get their shots, and (in that over-used phrase) “do the right thing,” they have to believe that those making the decisions know what they’re doing.

On Monday, the Ford government squandered a lot of that credibility.

It asked Ontarians to accept that the public health crisis brought on by the Omicron variant had changed so drastically in the space of only four days that it warranted a dramatic about-face in policy.

Just last Thursday, the province’s chief public health officer, Dr. Kieran Moore, came out to tell parents that the reopening of schools would be delayed by only two days, until Wednesday. He assured everyone that he “absolutely” endorsed that move, that “the rest of my colleagues” in hospitals and on the provincial science advisory table were on board, and that children had already “sacrificed so much” that schools just had to stay open.

Then on Monday, a long weekend later, the same Dr. Moore and an array of ministers stood by as the premier sombrely announced that an expected “tsunami” of Omicron cases means schools must now stayed closed for the next two weeks — “at least.” Ontario will go back into a “modified Stage 2” — including a ban on indoor dining, closing of many indoor venues, and so on.

What prompted this sudden change? No one listening to the premier could be sure. It’s been obvious for weeks that Omicron was sending case numbers soaring and threatening to flood hospitals with more patients than they can handle. It was certainly obvious last Thursday when the hapless Dr. Moore sent out the message that only modest new public health steps were required.

The truth seems to be that the government was snoozing through last week. Many wondered where the premier and key ministers were when Moore made his announcement. If there’s new evidence of Omicron’s impact on the health care system that he didn’t have last Thursday, what is it? There was talk of new modelling from Public Health Ontario showing cases going off the chart, but the trends were well established before that.

There was no sign of a plan to make sure schools have a realistic shot of actually reopening in two weeks. The government is sending N95 masks for teachers and more ventilators, but the best guarantee would be a crash campaign to vaccinate all students and make sure teachers get booster shots. Nothing like that was announced.

This feels like a government in disarray, pulling in different directions and coming up with a scatter-shot approach at best.

It’s also starting to point fingers. The Star’s Rob Benzie and Kristin Rushowy cite sources who say “there is mounting frustration at the highest levels of the government with Moore, the science table, and other public health officials.”

According to this version, Ford last summer requested “a fall pandemic plan that included a booster shot rollout, expanded rapid antigen testing, anti-viral medications, and antibody testing.”

Sounds impressive. But the same sources say there was resistance “from some in the medical community” who weren’t enthusiastic about handing out boosters and doubted the usefulness of rapid tests and testing for antibodies.

From all this we can deduce that Ford doesn’t want the blame for his government’s confused and confusing response to Omicron to be pinned on him. He’d prefer us to believe that Moore and others bungled the job. There’s an election in the offing, you see.

But Ford can’t duck this one. He’s the premier, he’s responsible, and right now he’s squandering that precious resource — the credibility of public authorities.

https://www.thebeaverton.com/2022/01/ford-this-was-a-hard-decision-that-we-refused-to-make-until-the-very-last-minute/

Ford: This was a hard decision that we refused to make until the very last minute

TORONTO – After cancelling school classes for another two weeks less than two days before they were set to resume, Ontario Premier Doug Ford said it was a very difficult decision he could have made weeks ago.

“I decisively procrastinated on this for over a month despite epidemiologists screaming at me of what would happen with the spread of omicron,” said Ford, whose press conference was delayed for over an hour. “No one could have ever anticipated this happening except for the people who told me this would happen, over and over again.”

The premier lamented about the “very short” two years his government was given to prepare for such an event when he gave parents, children and patients less than two days to look for alternatives.

“I know this is going to be tough, especially on me since I gave everyone the false impression that we were somehow in the clear just last week,” added Ford. “But how did I know that this would happen again for the fifth time?”

Meanwhile, Health Minister Christine Elliott was asking the province’s intubated to delay their deaths until after the provincial election.

[Himu]

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/2022/01/03/ford-chaotic-response-to-omicron-is-squandering-public-trust-in-health-authorities.html

Ford’s chaotic response to Omicron is squandering public trust in health authorities

Amid all the twists and turns of this terrible pandemic, now in its third calendar year, one of the most vital tools to fight it has been the credibility of public authorities.

If the public is going to follow the ever-changing rules, get their shots, and (in that over-used phrase) “do the right thing,” they have to believe that those making the decisions know what they’re doing.

On Monday, the Ford government squandered a lot of that credibility.

It asked Ontarians to accept that the public health crisis brought on by the Omicron variant had changed so drastically in the space of only four days that it warranted a dramatic about-face in policy.

Just last Thursday, the province’s chief public health officer, Dr. Kieran Moore, came out to tell parents that the reopening of schools would be delayed by only two days, until Wednesday. He assured everyone that he “absolutely” endorsed that move, that “the rest of my colleagues” in hospitals and on the provincial science advisory table were on board, and that children had already “sacrificed so much” that schools just had to stay open.

Then on Monday, a long weekend later, the same Dr. Moore and an array of ministers stood by as the premier sombrely announced that an expected “tsunami” of Omicron cases means schools must now stayed closed for the next two weeks — “at least.” Ontario will go back into a “modified Stage 2” — including a ban on indoor dining, closing of many indoor venues, and so on.

What prompted this sudden change? No one listening to the premier could be sure. It’s been obvious for weeks that Omicron was sending case numbers soaring and threatening to flood hospitals with more patients than they can handle. It was certainly obvious last Thursday when the hapless Dr. Moore sent out the message that only modest new public health steps were required.

The truth seems to be that the government was snoozing through last week. Many wondered where the premier and key ministers were when Moore made his announcement. If there’s new evidence of Omicron’s impact on the health care system that he didn’t have last Thursday, what is it? There was talk of new modelling from Public Health Ontario showing cases going off the chart, but the trends were well established before that.

There was no sign of a plan to make sure schools have a realistic shot of actually reopening in two weeks. The government is sending N95 masks for teachers and more ventilators, but the best guarantee would be a crash campaign to vaccinate all students and make sure teachers get booster shots. Nothing like that was announced.

This feels like a government in disarray, pulling in different directions and coming up with a scatter-shot approach at best.

It’s also starting to point fingers. The Star’s Rob Benzie and Kristin Rushowy cite sources who say “there is mounting frustration at the highest levels of the government with Moore, the science table, and other public health officials.”

According to this version, Ford last summer requested “a fall pandemic plan that included a booster shot rollout, expanded rapid antigen testing, anti-viral medications, and antibody testing.”

Sounds impressive. But the same sources say there was resistance “from some in the medical community” who weren’t enthusiastic about handing out boosters and doubted the usefulness of rapid tests and testing for antibodies.

From all this we can deduce that Ford doesn’t want the blame for his government’s confused and confusing response to Omicron to be pinned on him. He’d prefer us to believe that Moore and others bungled the job. There’s an election in the offing, you see.

But Ford can’t duck this one. He’s the premier, he’s responsible, and right now he’s squandering that precious resource — the credibility of public authorities.

https://www.thebeaverton.com/2022/01/ford-this-was-a-hard-decision-that-we-refused-to-make-until-the-very-last-minute/

Ford: This was a hard decision that we refused to make until the very last minute

TORONTO – After cancelling school classes for another two weeks less than two days before they were set to resume, Ontario Premier Doug Ford said it was a very difficult decision he could have made weeks ago.

“I decisively procrastinated on this for over a month despite epidemiologists screaming at me of what would happen with the spread of omicron,” said Ford, whose press conference was delayed for over an hour. “No one could have ever anticipated this happening except for the people who told me this would happen, over and over again.”

The premier lamented about the “very short” two years his government was given to prepare for such an event when he gave parents, children and patients less than two days to look for alternatives.

“I know this is going to be tough, especially on me since I gave everyone the false impression that we were somehow in the clear just last week,” added Ford. “But how did I know that this would happen again for the fifth time?”

Meanwhile, Health Minister Christine Elliott was asking the province’s intubated to delay their deaths until after the provincial election.

Even Canadians are feeling the brunt. Believing in institutions? Governments looking out for our interests? After all of this? How and why?

[Madrun Badrun]

You missed the point of the article.  It certainly is not anti-institution. 

[Himu]

You missed the point of the article.  It certainly is not anti-institution.

I'm well aware. Doesn't change that it gives reason to doubt institutions even if it's just pinning it all on Ford.

[chronovore]

Trump: "No one thought this was possible..."
Libs: "You fucking idiot, Obama put infrastructure in place specifically because scientists have been declaring something like this 'a matter of time' for ages, and you dismembered that infrastructure for the budget."

[benjipwns]

https://twitter.com/jeremyfaust/status/1478284880790245376

[who is ted danson?]

My favorite airport experience was the fridge full of horse meat and mare milk at the Astana International departure gates (when it was still called that). Not sure who exactly would want to load a couple of kilos of refrigerated meat and/or milk into their hand luggage for their hour plane ride plus onward travel. Ivermectin would probably be a good offer alongside the meat though.

[Raist]

UK government brilliant idea #8405

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59878823

Covid: PCR not needed after positive lateral flow under new plans

[Kurt Russell]

https://twitter.com/DefiantLs/status/1478405791820484627