It has been 4... 0 days since the last mass shooting official shooting thread

[curly]

[Mandark]

I find it disgusting how the media uses these situations to take actual victims of this to propagate an anti-gun narrative when we KNOW that the FBI received a warning about this kid and did nothing with it. But guns are the SOLE problem? Same with Omar Mateen. Guy had red flags. Was put on lists. But nope. The government isn’t even doing its job here. But somehow more laws will fix things? How was he not flagged when purchasing? That’s the REAL question.

The AR-15 rifle used in the attack was purchased legally, at Sunrise Tactical Supply in Florida, according to a federal law enforcement official. “No laws were violated in the procurement of this weapon,” said Peter J. Forcelli, the special agent in charge for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in Miami.

[Nola]

Grant Duwe, a Ph.D. researcher in Minnesota and the author of Mass Murder in the United States: A History, has shown that mass murders actually track closely with homicide rates—and that, in the past decade, both dropped to their lowest levels since the 1960s. Indeed, according to Duwe’s research, the rate of mass murder was highest in 1929,

James Alan Fox, a criminologist at Northeastern University in Boston, is one of the most prominent critics of the media’s mythology of increased mass murder. His own research shows that the numbers of mass shootings and mass-shooting victims in America have been remarkably consistent: roughly 20 shootings a year, with an average of 100 deaths. The number of shootings fluctuates annually, in spikes, which Fox credits to copycatting or sheer coincidence, but the average has held for 30 years.

And several graphs in this piece:

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/10/04/mass-shootings-more-deadly-frequent-research-215678

By this guys metric the mass shooting that killed my girlfriend’s cousins friends, and could of easily killed him, in Plano, Texas, where the guy entered the home where a party was going on and killed 8 people would not qualify as a mass shooting according to this guy’s accounting, nor would the subsequent church shooting that killed 25. That is a ridiculous way to measure mass shootings if your metric is creating such glaring omissions. Stick to a number and general baseline and don’t try and cherry pick arbitrary qualifiers.

EDIT: There certainly may be very little, if any notable rise, in frequency based on per 100,000 people, which is certainly the best way to measure that, but at least provide some non shit substantiation for it.

[Nola]

I find it disgusting how the media uses these situations to take actual victims of this to propagate an anti-gun narrative when we KNOW that the FBI received a warning about this kid and did nothing with it. But guns are the SOLE problem? Same with Omar Mateen. Guy had red flags. Was put on lists. But nope. The government isn’t even doing its job here. But somehow more laws will fix things? How was he not flagged when purchasing? That’s the REAL question.

You know why the government isn't doing its job? Because of the same fucking people that prevent any and all gun control legislation.

There are over 370,000 requests annually that come into the ATF trying to source or assist in identifying gun registrations in order to assist local officers in solving or following through on inquiries about gun purchases they have the information on. That would help solve crimes, prevent crimes, or help the process of identifying problematic gun buyers. On top of that, it is ILLEGAL to use a computer to organize those registrations into a searchable database. So they have to manually look through millions of files to try and answer any inquiry. You know how many people are staffed to do that job? 50 fucking people.

You know why? Because of that same fucking NRA that disseminates those talking points. Because in the 80's and subsequently they passed legislation that capped the amount of spending agencies that deal with gun crimes are allotted, that made obvious advancements of efficiency illegal. They then went on to pass legislation that made it illegal to conduct most sorts of gun trace data collection to identify patterns, like a legal firearm seller in say Georgia, selling a large number of firearms that end up on the streets in Chicago, where 60% of guns recovered in crimes are from out of state. Made it illegal to coordinate or pass on what information they can trace in bulk to agencies like the FBI. So you have skeleton crews that are unable to even do their basic jobs, with purposeful legislation meant to prevent law enforcement from doing the sort of coordination and tracing that would make their agencies more effective at preventing and monitoring trends in gun violence.

Than yokels get on the horn and try and blame the government because they didn't take two fucking seconds to perhaps question the talking points they wanted to believe are true.

I'm sorry, but I lived blocks away from Columbine, have had friends killed by guns, so I get a bit miffed when I hear the same bullshit arguments and regurgitated propaganda over and over again.

[bluemax]

The "chasing fame" aspect of mass shooters. Which is another significant factor in this discussion when trying to figure out why it's so prevalent here.

I don't even remember the Vegas shooter's name or face.

He was a cis, straight,  upper middle class, middle aged white man. What else do you need to know?

With a history of domestic violence. That's another common denominator in a lot of these.

[Stoney Mason]

I find it disgusting how the media uses these situations to take actual victims of this to propagate an anti-gun narrative when we KNOW that the FBI received a warning about this kid and did nothing with it. But guns are the SOLE problem? Same with Omar Mateen. Guy had red flags. Was put on lists. But nope. The government isn’t even doing its job here. But somehow more laws will fix things? How was he not flagged when purchasing? That’s the REAL question.

The AR-15 rifle used in the attack was purchased legally, at Sunrise Tactical Supply in Florida, according to a federal law enforcement official. “No laws were violated in the procurement of this weapon,” said Peter J. Forcelli, the special agent in charge for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in Miami.

Not to mention existing laws have been weakened since Trump took office when our basic level of gun countol as compared to other advanced nations is already a joke.

In February 2017, he signed legislation cutting an Obama-era regulation that added to the national gun background check database the names of people who are receiving Social Security checks for mental illnesses and people who are deemed unfit to handle their own financial affairs.

Trump signed the bill without fanfare, NBC News reported.

The action was applauded by the NRA. “Today marks a new era for law-abiding gun owners, as we now have a president who respects and supports our right to keep and bear arms,” Chris W. Cox, executive director of the NRA Institute for Legislative Action, said at the time.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2018/02/15/trump-blames-shooting-mental-illness-but-signed-bill-making-easier-for-mentally-ill-have-guns/K6HUSsCk8Fd7PpC5sfKdkO/story.html

But nope. Gun Control activists "disgust" a certain somebody. Fuck off.

[Himu]

Not defending Trump for that. Pretty dumb and heartless move.

[Himu]

....who fucking cares about the number?  Just ONE should be goddamned enough.  What a bullshit thing to argue about.

I don’t disagree but “who cares about the numbers?” Don’t lie about numbers. It turns victim into political chess.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Civilians shouldn't have access to guns period.

Protection is the job of the state.

[Stoney Mason]

Civilians shouldn't have access to guns period.

Protection is the job of the state.

It's still 1782 here. We need our guns in case the government oversteps. And also if the slaves revolt.

[Nola]

Civilians shouldn't have access to guns period.

Protection is the job of the state.

It's still 1782 here. We need our guns in case the government oversteps. And also if the slaves revolt.

The irony is that no one in 1782, or the 200 years after, at least in any sort of majority, and certainly not in a majority in the Supreme Court, interpreted the second amendment as an individual right to arms. Republican or Democrat controlled court.

Just for fun, here's a shiny Nixon Supreme Court appointee in 1991 and his thoughts on the newly advocated NRA interpretation that the second amendment guarantees a personal right to bear arms:

[Himu]

Civilians shouldn't have access to guns period.

Protection is the job of the state.

The same state that abuses civilians. Right. Thank God I am American, where the founding father rightfully did not trust the state. Right. The state. The same state lead by Donald Trump. The same state whose congress and senate can’t pass reasonable legislature because of partisanship. The same state that is perfectly fine having its mitts around its constituents’ throat via wage slavery, and student loan debt. The same state that has sponsors a drug war that allows police to sell assets through forfeiture, separates families, kills communities, and imprisons millions of men for profit and servitude. The same state that LIED when invading Iraq. The same state that bailed out criminals after the 2008 financial crisis. The same state that imprisoned natural born citizens in internment camps during WWII for the crime of simply being Japanese. The same state that turns police, tear gas, dogs, and water hoses on peaceful protesters. The same state that concocted a plan to exercise genocide on an entire race.

Oh.

That state.

I will put my full trust in it to protect my life. 

You’re talking to citizens of a country that won its own revolution. That also happens to have a “wonderful” record of citizen abuses. Skepticism of government is earned. Hell, it’s built into the very DNA of the country. But put full trust in it or you’re an idiot.

[seagrams hotsauce]

Sure, but good luck protecting yourself from the state with a gun ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Himu]

Sure, but good luck protecting yourself from the state with a gun ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This is such a bad argument, like you’ve never heard of any war America has been involved in post WWII compounded with the fact that it  makes anyone says it sound like a giant fucking pussy.

[Stoney Mason]

America. The only country that had a revolution (hundreds of years ago) and therefore is skeptical of government so everybody needs weapons.

Gotta love that American bubble.

[Nola]

Civilians shouldn't have access to guns period.

Protection is the job of the state.

The same state that abuses civilians. Right. Thank God I am American, where the founding father rightfully did not trust the state. Right. The state. The same state lead by Donald Trump. The same state whose congress and senate can’t pass reasonable legislature because of partisanship. The same state that is perfectly fine having its mitts around its constituents’ throat via wage slavery, and student loan debt. The same state that has sponsors a drug war that allows police to sell assets through forfeiture, separates families, kills communities, and imprisons millions of men for profit and servitude. The same state that LIED when invading Iraq. The same state that bailed out criminals after the 2008 financial crisis. The same state that imprisoned natural born citizens in internment camps during WWII for the crime of simply being Japanese. The same state that turns police, tear gas, dogs, and water hoses on peaceful protesters. The same state that concocted a plan to exercise genocide on an entire race.

Oh.

That state.

I will put my full trust in it to protect my life. 

You’re talking to citizens of a country that won its own revolution. That also happens to have a “wonderful” record of citizen abuses. Skepticism of government is earned. Hell, it’s built into the very DNA of the country. But put full trust in it or you’re an idiot.

And they managed to do all that shit when you still had access to arms. So your point was what exactly?

[Himu]

“Only the state should have weapons”.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-18288430

“Hur hurrr”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Venezuelan_protests

An unarmed populace with no power. Time and time again, we see this happen. Liberals and progressives think we are beyond weapons so we should put trust in the state because of the here and now.  We don’t need weapons now, we means we won’t need them later is the logic. But every state falls. Countries are remade and reshaped all the time through history. But we should ban weapons because who needs them today, right? Cases like Venezuela prove conservatives right in that often liberals fall to excesses of today that they overlook what may happen tomorrow. Thank fuck the world isn’t controlled by them.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Why do Americans always hark back to winning a revolution, every fucking country has won some conflict. You are not unique snowflakes lol.

Also it wasn't fucking Cindi Mayweather fighting the British commando style from the window of her apartment with the handgun she keeps under the bed, it was a fucking regular army (militia) fighting another regular army. You are not going to fight anyone Cindi.

Also nothing you wrote makes any sense or gives reason to own a gun.

[Stoney Mason]

My god you talk so much ignorant bullshit. The election drove you completely stupid.

Well time to add you to my ignore list finally.

[Himu]

Anyways this disgusting ruse has gone on long enough.

Stories of the victims.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/shooting-victims-a-jokester-coach-an-avid-soccer-player-youth-volunteers-1518719090
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43070359

[team filler]

2nd amendment annihilated 

[Cerveza mas fina]

You think if citizens in Venezuela had guns things would be better? 

It would be a total bloodbath and they would get squashed.

This is how you bring down a regime, over a long time.

[Himu]

Is it a characteristic of the left to sound so weak? Goes hand in hand with the victim complex.  “You couldn’t win” “they’d get squashed”. Jeez. It’s like you haven’t paid attention to the the past half century. Never mind that some weapons is definitely better than no weapons.

[curly]

also venezuela has one of the highest murder rates in the world, I'm sure there are plenty of weapons in the country

and the opposition shot and killed plenty of people in the 2017 protests

[Cerveza mas fina]

Sound so weak? Realistic more like.

You have no idea what you are talking about opposing an armed government Cindi.

All you know is what you read in books and saw on tv as usual.

You don't know anyone that fought.¨

You have NO CLUE AT ALL.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Cant wait for your "Holocaust would have never happened if the jews had guns" argument.

[Himu]

https://amp.businessinsider.com/ap-venezuelas-maduro-seeks-to-expand-armed-civilian-militias-2017-4

Arming loyalists. Hmm. Trusting the state...

 

Wanna know why you don’t trust the state? It’s a pendulum. We went from Obama to Trump. Thankfully there are checks and balances. America

[Cerveza mas fina]

I don't know why you keep linking articles from a banana republic, do you think if you lived there and had a gun you would start a rebellion? 

Cindi lets be honest, you are already afraid and paranoid in one of the best and safest countries IN THE WORLD and "need a gun to protect yourself"

Your ass would fucking melt down mentally before you took it to the streets to engage in combat and fight the government

[Cerveza mas fina]

You can't even keep you cool here, you think you could fight a war. SMH.

[Mandark]

I find it disgusting how the media uses these situations to take actual victims of this to propagate an anti-gun narrative when we KNOW that the FBI received a warning about this kid and did nothing with it.

So do you want the state to be more aggressive in disarming citizens or nah?

[curly]

https://amp.businessinsider.com/ap-venezuelas-maduro-seeks-to-expand-armed-civilian-militias-2017-4

Arming loyalists. Hmm. Trusting the state...

 

Wanna know why you don’t trust the state? It’s a pendulum. We went from Obama to Trump. Thankfully there are checks and balances. America

There are a lot of scared families in Caracas, and a lot of grieving loved ones. Venezuela boasts many unhappy superlatives: with an annual total of around 20,000 homicides (the government refuses to release accurate statistics) the country competes yearly with half-a-dozen other unfortunate places for the world’s highest murder rate; there is reported to be one firearm in circulation for every two citizens, making Venezuela the most weaponised environment on earth; and every year there are, according to the police, at (the very least) 2,000 kidnaps for ransom nationwide.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/taking-no-prisoners-in-the-kidnap-capital-of-the-world-on-the-streets-of-caracas-with-an-elite-8872390.html

[Nola]

Is it a characteristic of the left to sound so weak? Goes hand in hand with the victim complex.  “You couldn’t win” “they’d get squashed”. Jeez. It’s like you haven’t paid attention to the the past half century. Never mind that some weapons is definitely better than no weapons.

You just got done listing off all these moments in American history where the right to bear arms did jack shit for the people being victimized, and you are lecturing everyone else about not being realists? Think about it for a minute.

I think most people are fairly understandable about individuals like yourself, in the context of our current environment, perhaps seeking guns for personal protection. I think the evidence doesn't really agree with you on that, but I get it. But it gets a bit ridiculous once we cross over into the fantasy realm of an armed insurrection in modern society against your own government. Which isn't an invading force, its a force that knows the landscape and internal dynamics better than you do.  This government has drones, nukes, armored vehicles, and the greatest military the world has ever seen. Not to mention half the populace that is going to be the on-the-ground informants for any sort of civil war. Because after all, those tyrants are not getting to power in this country without mass support.

[Transhuman]

Wanna know why you don’t trust the state?

Wanna know why you don't trust the indidual? Because instead of locking the guns in a safe until they need them to resist tyranny, they take them out and use them to blow off steam by killing kids.

[chronovore]

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

https://twitter.com/jasonroeder/status/963976307879985152

[Cerveza mas fina]

Yes but what if the government decides to do a holocaust 2.0 you got to be ready I mean Carter Reagan Bush Clinton Bush Obama Trump is basically hitler so it can happen any moment

[benjipwns]

here's a shiny Nixon Supreme Court appointee in 1991

this adjective choice is making me uncomfortable

*reaches for a gun*

[benjipwns]

Cindi, are you ok? You've been hysterical for days.

User was warned for: using GamerGate type terminology regarding feemales

[TVC15]

You kinda walked into that one, Shosta.

[Boogie]

Cindi, are you ok? You've been hysterical for years.

ftfy

[headwalk]

as an outsider, i can't think of a single way that gun ownership has somehow safeguarded your liberties and numerous ways in which it has made your day to day life more claustrophobic and insular. what did your m4 do to prevent the NSA going through your dirty undies with wanton disregard?

i mean i get that loading up a pickup with military hardware and burning it out to the desert to unleash hell on tin cans and water bottles is the american dream. i'd love to own a gun and think they're cool. thank christ i can't though.

[eleuin]

Thoughts, Cindi? 

[Human Snorenado]

Cindi is acting like she believes someone that's a part time BJJ enthusiast can walk into a dojo or whatever and throw down with a full-time, professionally trained master. GOOD LUCK.

[Himu]

Cindi, are you ok? You've been hysterical for days.

I don’t know anymore.

[Himu]

Cindi is acting like she believes someone that's a part time BJJ enthusiast can walk into a dojo or whatever and throw down with a full-time, professionally trained master. GOOD LUCK.

What do you mean

[etiolate]

Apparently the FBI screwed up protocol and missed the reports on the guy.

and the white supremacist militia story was a 4chan hoax

good job america

[Human Snorenado]

Cindi is acting like she believes someone that's a part time BJJ enthusiast can walk into a dojo or whatever and throw down with a full-time, professionally trained master. GOOD LUCK.

What do you mean

Do you seriously think you (a relative firearm noob) are going to throw down with a master (the US army or even just cops) if it comes down to it? I'm all for you having the right to protect your person from harm but let's get real here.

[Himu]

Apparently the FBI screwed up protocol and missed the reports on the guy

the state

[Himu]

Cindi is acting like she believes someone that's a part time BJJ enthusiast can walk into a dojo or whatever and throw down with a full-time, professionally trained master. GOOD LUCK.

What do you mean

Do you seriously think you (a relative firearm noob) are going to throw down with a master (the US army or even just cops) if it comes down to it? I'm all for you having the right to protect your person from harm but let's get real here.

1. I shoot at ranges and am a good shot. At my first gun lesson i nearly got a bullseye with a .40 SW. That was just lesson one. A big part of “gun culture” is actually mastering the weapon by shooting on a regular basis. FYI American police have lax range standards and most police do not take their guns to the range often. I guarantee that if you had a police Vs civilian range contest the police would lose.

2. The idea that if the American government waged war against its citizens that a portion of the military would disobey that order and join the rebellion is ludicrous.

3. I am not a beginner.

None of your argument fits reality about the situation. Gun owners are more than hobbyists. You have to clean your gun, know how to shoot well with it, and learn basic safety. When you believe it will save your life, you are not lax with knowing how to use it.

[Human Snorenado]

Cindi is acting like she believes someone that's a part time BJJ enthusiast can walk into a dojo or whatever and throw down with a full-time, professionally trained master. GOOD LUCK.

What do you mean

Do you seriously think you (a relative firearm noob) are going to throw down with a master (the US army or even just cops) if it comes down to it? I'm all for you having the right to protect your person from harm but let's get real here.

1. I shoot at ranges and am a good shot. At my first gun lesson i nearly got a bullseye with a .40 SW. That was just lesson one. A big part of “gun culture” is actually mastering the weapon by shooting on a regular basis. FYI American police have lax range standards and most police do not take their guns to the range often. I guarantee that if you had a police Vs civilian range contest the police would lose.

2. The idea that if the American government waged war against its citizens that a portion of the military would disobey that order and join the rebellion is ludicrous.

3. I am not a beginner.

None of your argument fits reality about the situation. Gun owners are more than hobbyists. You have to clean your gun, know how to shoot well with it, and learn basic safety. When you believe it will save your life, you are not lax with knowing how to use it.

Have you had combat training? Lol, gtfo with your nonsense. Jesus, talking to you is the same exercise in futility across literally any topic. All of life is Shenmue with you.

[TVC15]

Cindi is acting like she believes someone that's a part time BJJ enthusiast can walk into a dojo or whatever and throw down with a full-time, professionally trained master. GOOD LUCK.

What do you mean

Do you seriously think you (a relative firearm noob) are going to throw down with a master (the US army or even just cops) if it comes down to it? I'm all for you having the right to protect your person from harm but let's get real here.

1. I shoot at ranges and am a good shot. At my first gun lesson i nearly got a bullseye with a .40 SW. That was just lesson one. A big part of “gun culture” is actually mastering the weapon by shooting on a regular basis. FYI American police have lax range standards and most police do not take their guns to the range often. I guarantee that if you had a police Vs civilian range contest the police would lose.

2. The idea that if the American government waged war against its citizens that a portion of the military would disobey that order and join the rebellion is ludicrous.

3. I am not a beginner.

None of your argument fits reality about the situation. Gun owners are more than hobbyists. You have to clean your gun, know how to shoot well with it, and learn basic safety. When you believe it will save your life, you are not lax with knowing how to use it.

Have you had combat training? Lol, gtfo with your nonsense. Jesus, talking to you is the same exercise in futility across literally any topic. All of life is Shenmue with you.

Way over the line, dude. You can’t take that one back.

[nudemacusers]

2. The idea that if the American government waged war against its citizens that a portion of the military would disobey that order and join the rebellion is ludicrous.

sorry but what... you realize people in the military have things called families and communities and often live outside of military bases themselves... gonna be a difficult drive to work in the midst of all this slaughter just so we can all arm up and mow down our neighbors.

[nudemacusers]

 

[ToxicAdam]

Apparently the FBI screwed up protocol and missed the reports on the guy.

and the white supremacist militia story was a 4chan hoax

good job america

Most importantly, what does Alex Jones have to say?

[etiolate]

probably gay trans alligators

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

[seagrams hotsauce]

Sure, but good luck protecting yourself from the state with a gun ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This is such a bad argument, like you’ve never heard of any war America has been involved in post WWII compounded with the fact that it  makes anyone says it sound like a giant fucking pussy.

Name a single instance where the state comes to your door to do something you consider illegal that you can talk your way out of with a gun.
 
And as long as we're taking cute little snips about who's pussy, here's a thought; I understand there are remote circumstances where arming yourself in a dangerous place is a reasonable safety measure but the vast amount of people I know who own a gun for "protection" are people who fear the world so much that they need to arm themselves and so hubristic that they think they'd somehow be the hero in a mass shooting scenario. That's some pussy shit for real to me.

[Mandark]

Sure, but good luck protecting yourself from the state with a gun ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This is such a bad argument, like you’ve never heard of any war America has been involved in post WWII compounded with the fact that it  makes anyone says it sound like a giant fucking pussy.

Wait, are you using Vietnam and Iraq as models for American citizens to protect themselves from the police?

[Verdigris Murder]

So, the script that emerged — a ''first draft'' Stallone has written with Art Monterastelli (The Hunted) — finds Rambo living a monastic lifestyle in Bangkok and salvaging old PT boats and tanks for scrap metal. (''It's like he's stripping himself down,'' says the actor, pensively. ''That old piece of military equipment.'') When a group of volunteers bringing supplies into Burma disappears, a relative of one of the missing missionaries begs Rambo to find them. He heads off with a team of young guns, a plot point required by the financiers, who wanted to hedge against Rambo's possible mono-generational appeal.

[Corporal]

Man, I started writing a snarky reply and ended up rambling. In the interest of showing what I normally discard when I'm staying silent, I've added it in spoiler tags below. Be glad I'm usually keeping myself constrained. The forum would end up drowning in huge vapid walls of text. Best to ignore it.

Anyway, let's just say I'd rather live in a world where at worst I had a small security beeper or whistle on my person, not carry a weapon for self defense. Normal run of the mill peeps should just live in peace, earn a modest living and consensually fornicate furiously with loved ones instead of bothering with the small stuff. That's what police and laws are for. We only have one life to live, so why waste it. We're no longer in the dark ages of humanity, even if we still have a long way to go (and despite our best efforts to devolve into Stone Age savages again).

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sigh... It's the same old Spiel.

Shooting targets at the range: cool, why not. Loud, smelly, and really depends on who's running the joint. Still, kinda fun, especially if there's exotic weaponry to test or watch or when you can track your advancements. Doubly fun if there's a modest gambling/gaming aspect, with high score tables and punishments for whiffing and whatnot. That can be really fun. I'm more of a paintball/laser tag guy because why take a risk if you don't really need to (and harmlessly shooting guys in the groin is funny), but whatever. People willingly throw themselves out of planes with a flimsy piece of cloth attached to their backs, so... To each their own. Fun things are fun. Not gonna judge.

Hunting: if you eat or sell what you shoot, then OK. If you are responsible for a piece of land and need to do population control of pests, OK. Still hope you're gonna use the bodies for something, but it's not always possible. I completely lack empathy for those drive by shooters or "sport"/trophy hunters though. That's a life, you ass. If you have to kill, then at least give it meaning. And no, mounting their stuffed carcass on your wall and throwing away their meat isn't that.

Keeping a gun for self defense: eh. Frankly, when public safety is consistently so utterly terrible that you have to arm yourself and take matters in your own hands, then your government and society as a whole has failed you on a pretty fundamental level. Protest your local representative to pay, train and equip your police officers better, and lobby for more police officers on the streets and internal reviews to catch those so-called bad apples.
But OK, if you must, just lug around that chunk of metal, if it gives you peace of mind. Just make sure you follow all regulations, and that you actually have it at the ready instead of hidden away somehwere. No baddie is gonna wait for you to dig through your trousers or waddle over to the ugly (and thus hidden away) gun safe. And honestly, if you miss and hit an innocent, then that's entirely on you, so you better have insurance or a fat bank account. The baddie is likely broke as fuck, so no dice there. At that point nobody is gonna care who started it.

Keeping a gun to defend your country from external threats, or defend yourself against your country in case of bad gubbermint...: Especially if you have no proper training and aren't part of some organised corps... I'm sorry, but are you overdosing on Hollywood movies? Have you looked at what even a third rate potato army has at their disposal nowadays. It didn't work when we Germans tried the Volkssturm, it didn't work when ISIS and all the other terrorist organisations got their asses kicked all the way through the Middle East, so why would it suddenly work now. Civilians in a war are not actors. They're background noise while the big guys duke it out.
These are trained professionals with a nigh-unlimited supply and support infrastructure, and they are using equipment that can liquefy your innards far more efficiently and quickly than you can ever hope to, even if you were to start guzzling bleach right now. What the fuck are you gonna do against an APC, tank or heli? Hope the crew will laugh themselves to death when you plink at them with your Glock? Absolute best case is you will annoy them a bit before they step on the gas and squish you into a pancake.
Heck, just group up with a couple of like-minded fighters and see how your ragtag bunch of heroes will fare against an ordinary squad. And how long it takes until the kiddie gloves are off and the big metal is called into action, even if you unexpectedly manage to survive an encounter or two.
Also, have fun with your non-resistance life from then on, e.g. reaching into your clothes to grab identification papers when asked for them at a checkpoint. You think US police are trigger happy now, wait until it's all soldiers with orders to catch insurgents instead and a bunch of wounded back at the base. Loads of civvies are gonna be made into sieves in a shoot first ask questions later precautionary manner.


Also, why crash the blowjob-to-MRE exchange rate. Face it, the supply situation is gonna be bad. It's a war after all. The only ones with a somewhat stable supply of resources will be in either army. If the civvies are perceived as constant threat, they will be dealt with mercilessly. If they cooperate and are just minding their own business in between bouts of shouting and star(v)ing, they might even be able to nab a handsome high ranking soldier and live the high life, maybe spy a bit on the side if that's your kind of thing. Worked pretty well in post-WW2 Germany. Loads of us Krauts even found their partner for life. Well, some. The rest just squirted out some bastard kids and went on with their lives. Still, it put food on the table, cigarettes in the mouths, and chocolates into the kids. Give and take.


So yeah. I don't understand this me against the world stuff. The world is big. You stand no chance in a 1:1 fight. Also, it's never gonna be a fair 1:1 fight anyway. Life's a bitch.

I fully support learning to shoot. It's just like swimming. Or driving. Or reading. Or maths. Foreign languages. Whatever. You never know when you are going to need it. So yeah. Take a gun, learn how to shoot it, how to maintain it, how to carry it. Learn all the useful little tidbits. Just in case. But after that, discard it and continue living your life without any delusions of grandeur. Also, train yourself and learn some self defense. That's always useful. Knowing when to run and when (and how) to deliver a hit to the groin of your opponent is an important skill.

[close]

[etiolate]

In relation to that:

Theories of crime that point to poverty and racism have the advantage of explaining why low-income groups predominate when it comes to violent crime. What they really explain, though, is why more affluent groups refrain from such crime. And the answer is that middle-class people (regardless of race) stand to lose a great deal from such behavior. Wisely, more affluent people go to law and seek other nonviolent methods to resolve interpersonal conflicts. Poor people, and especially young, male poor people, do not. Their perceived stake in the established order is tenuous.

The cultural explanation for violence is superior to explanations that rest of poverty or racism, however, because it can account for the differentials in the violent-crime rates of groups with comparable adversities. My favorite illustration of this is the Haitian situation in 1980s Miami. Here was a group of black people coming to the U.S. illegally in makeshift boats. They had a brutal history of slavery, and were illiterate in English, impoverished, and unwelcome. Yet their violent-crime rates were much lower than those of African Americans living in the same city in the same time period. If cultural differences don’t explain this, then what does?

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/06/the-cultural-roots-of-crime/487583/

Idea being that the Europeans that settle the south were much different types of people than the north, southern settlers being more aristocratic and honor bound. (Big mansions, slave workers, "gentlemanly") And that culture got imprinted onto the slave descendants.



Southern Violent Crime rates in 2012.  Also relevant: the south feels like a different country still to this day.

[Cerveza mas fina]

No good arguementd will convince people that are afraid to give up their guns as their real motive is not safety but a feeling of safety (or maybe feeling powerless).

Its not a rational thing like lets say telling someone to stop eating junk food and eat healthy to lose weight, people will listen and understand this (even though they might not act on it)