Author Topic: Fighting Games Thread: GAROU 2 GAROU 2 GAROU 2 GAROU 2 (Read 435904 times)

toku · « **Reply #2160 on:** February 06, 2018, 11:58:44 PM »

https://twitter.com/xTeloss/status/961071923387133952

Himu · « **Reply #2161 on:** February 07, 2018, 02:13:04 AM »

Nice to see GG is still getting support

bork · « **Reply #2162 on:** February 07, 2018, 08:54:39 AM »

THREE Arc games at Evo. Never thought I'd see the day.

Am surprised that BlazBlue Cross Tag Battle is being featured though. Especially when with its wacky DLC releases it may not be "complete" by then. But I guess they figure it will be a solid enough game to replace regular BB.

Tasty · « **Reply #2163 on:** February 07, 2018, 09:15:33 AM »

Quote from: toku on February 06, 2018, 11:58:44 PM

https://twitter.com/xTeloss/status/961071923387133952

#LoveIsLove

bork · « **Reply #2164 on:** February 07, 2018, 09:24:08 AM »

Makes me want to play this game again.

nachobro · « **Reply #2165 on:** February 07, 2018, 09:41:49 AM »

Looks like registration/hotel discounts/Sunday arena passes are all opening for sale next Thursday at noon (pacific?). So be ready if you want to get in on the Sunday arena. The other things aren't a huge rush but there's usually an early bird discount for registration (including spectator passes).

https://twitter.com/EVO/status/961070443611475969

Akala · « **Reply #2166 on:** February 07, 2018, 12:08:06 PM »

even after everything i figured MVCi would have at least one year.

nachobro · « **Reply #2167 on:** February 07, 2018, 12:20:11 PM »

Eh it'll be a part of AnimEVO or will do its own side thing and I can see top 4 or something being on the main stage. Wiz said he wanted to do that for the bigger side events. But with Capcom not even putting MVCI into their Pro Tour I can understand putting in another game that is getting support from the publisher over it.

Still, first EVO ever without Marvel is $:-\$

Tasty · « **Reply #2168 on:** February 07, 2018, 01:30:28 PM »

Marvel dead and Melee still kicking

Really happy DBFZ is in in any case, those are gonna be some hype AF grand finals.

bork · « **Reply #2169 on:** February 07, 2018, 01:44:38 PM »

Quote from: nachobro on February 07, 2018, 12:20:11 PM

Still, first EVO ever without Marvel is $:-\$

They fucked up. The question now is, will Capcom do something to salvage the game (doubtful) or will they give us a new Vs. style game with some quality behind it this time?

bork · « **Reply #2170 on:** February 07, 2018, 01:59:20 PM »

Are there any Marvel players clinging to it or has everyone pretty much moved onto DBZ anyway? I don't follow that stuff.

nachobro · « **Reply #2171 on:** February 07, 2018, 02:41:19 PM »

It definitely has its dedicated fanbase still. Angelic is basically the community leader now that even Yipes has given up on the game.

bork · « **Reply #2172 on:** February 07, 2018, 02:48:33 PM »

Quote from: nachobro on February 07, 2018, 02:41:19 PM

It definitely has its dedicated fanbase still. Angelic is basically the community leader now that even Yipes has given up on the game.

nachobro · « **Reply #2173 on:** February 07, 2018, 03:04:19 PM »

Eh, it'll be fine. It has 120ish registered at Winter Brawl and does numbers in that area in various other events. It's just not the follow up to MVC3 that people expected.

Also Markman has been dropping not too subtle hints that the issue is more on the side of Marvel than on Capcom/EVO
https://twitter.com/MarkMan23/status/961290418984910848

https://twitter.com/MarkMan23/status/961291405200056320

bork · « **Reply #2174 on:** February 07, 2018, 03:35:07 PM »

I don't think Marvel is responsible for the game looking worse than MvC3, no.

Bebpo · « **Reply #2175 on:** February 07, 2018, 03:47:01 PM »

Well I think it’s half and half, Marvel fucked up the Marvel side of the roster forcing Marvel film focused cast, Capcom fucked up by the 2v2, gems (though that could’ve been Marvel), weak visuals, and small roster overall.

Though gameplay seems good. Will play it when Ultimate comes out w/xmen cast.

bork · « **Reply #2176 on:** February 07, 2018, 03:49:57 PM »

I like the game play. But I don't see how Marvel is to blame for the game being sub-par. Marvel is to blame for no X-Men and some costume design choices for their side...that's it. It's not like this is Capcom's first rodeo with them.

There's rumblings that Capcom has pretty much given up on the game so I wouldn't hold my breath for an "ultimate" version. But you know what? Add in more characters and actually release the game looking like it's FINISHED and I'm there with you, Capcom.

Better yet- just forget about it and release an upgrade to MvC3 with re-balancing and added characters.

Tasty · « **Reply #2177 on:** February 07, 2018, 03:51:42 PM »

Quote from: Dos Locos Tacos on February 07, 2018, 03:49:57 PM

It's not like this is Capcom's first rodeo with them.

Isn't Infinite the first Marvel game post-Disney though?

nachobro · « **Reply #2178 on:** February 07, 2018, 03:55:22 PM »

I don't think so. MVC3 was 2011 and UMVC3 was 2012. When did Disney buy Marvel?

Quote from: Dos Locos Tacos on February 07, 2018, 03:35:07 PM

I don't think Marvel is responsible for the game looking worse than MvC3, no.

He's talking about the game not being at EVO, not anything else about it.

bork · « **Reply #2179 on:** February 07, 2018, 03:56:31 PM »

Don't see how Disney buying them would make any difference either.

Again, the gameplay is good, at least IMO. I don't think that's what killed it....if you want to talk it being "dumbed down," it's not like DBZ is any more complex. The graphics looking like shit and the sub-par roster definitely seem like the biggest things, and while Marvel is part of the latter, it's not like the X-Men not being there would be the sole reason why it failed.

If you compare the game to Dragonball FighterZ, the overall quality is 100 times worse. It looks like an unpolished, unfinished game. One the ugliest titles I've seen in a while.

It's funny how KOF XIV got fun of for looking like "PS2" but it turned out alright in the end. MvC:I looks worse, IMO. It's so fucking ugly.

toku · « **Reply #2180 on:** February 07, 2018, 04:24:08 PM »

Give ArcSystems Darkstalkers

nachobro · « **Reply #2181 on:** February 07, 2018, 04:32:10 PM »

Nah, I'd rather another VSAV game never get made. There is no one left that can make it without having to force in cinematic supers and "look at this sweet animation" moments.

Bebpo · « **Reply #2182 on:** February 07, 2018, 04:32:23 PM »

Quote from: Dos Locos Tacos on February 07, 2018, 03:49:57 PM

I like the game play. But I don't see how Marvel is to blame for the game being sub-par. Marvel is to blame for no X-Men and some costume design choices for their side...that's it. It's not like this is Capcom's first rodeo with them.

There's rumblings that Capcom has pretty much given up on the game so I wouldn't hold my breath for an "ultimate" version. But you know what? Add in more characters and actually release the game looking like it's FINISHED and I'm there with you, Capcom.

Better yet- just forget about it and release an upgrade to MvC3 with re-balancing and added characters.

Ehhhh, from what I understand Marvel basically dictated the Marvel lineup and Capcom had no say. So it's not just "no x-men/doctor doom", but Capcom didn't have the freedom to pull all kinds of interesting comic book characters like back when they did Shuma-Gorath and what not and the lineup was basically TEAM BORING AVENGERS + some GoTG. Like that stuff works in the films because it's the safe characters, but it just makes a bland roster in MvC. Then you have stuff like that actual interesting additions like Black Panther being locked behind DLC -_-

Also in terms of it not being Capcom's first go around with Marvel, Marvel/Disney has waaaaaaay more negotiating/controlling power in 2017 than they did 5-10 years ago. I really am not a fan of how they are trying to take control and dictate games being made using their properties now instead of just licensing them out. We got lots of fun and good Marvel games in the past because it was game developers doing what they wanted like the PS1 spiderman games, the Beenox spiderman, the lego stuff, MvC, that crazy ass Wolverine game, that crazy PS2 punisher game, etc... Guess we'll see how the new Avengers game turns out.

Bebpo · « **Reply #2183 on:** February 07, 2018, 04:36:30 PM »

I just want to add though that part of the reason I never picked up MvC:I or was too interesting is that even MvC3 felt like a downgrade to me coming from MvC2's roster. It was still enough that I picked up MvC3 and enjoyed it. But I always felt like one of the key selling points to vs games was having a billion characters ripped from various games. So MvC:I having an even smaller roster than MvC3 was a big turn off personally.

But around 2010s era the FGC took off and "balance" became important :'(

Since I just play fighting games locally with a friend I'd rather have 50+ characters with crappy balance, but that's just me. Like the new Arc Sys Blazblue Vs Undernight x Persona game. There's almost no reason not to just include 90% of the entire casts of those games because you are just sprite ripping. The game should have like 50-60+ characters like the old school KoFs and Vs games. But the roster is looking really small probably because they actually gotta have balance

Gonna be the first Arcsys game I skip, that one.

thisismyusername · « **Reply #2184 on:** February 07, 2018, 04:36:58 PM »

Quote from: Dos Locos Tacos on February 07, 2018, 03:35:07 PM

I don't think Marvel is responsible for the game looking worse than MvC3, no.

But they are responisble for their roster choices. UMvC3 was basically "MCU Phase 1-3 preview" rosters for them (Rocket Raccoon WAY before GotG was made into a film was a literal "who?" pick). No X-men due to Fox shenanigans soured a lot of Vs. series fans.

And given current Capcom, people clamoring for a Capcom vs SNK? Fuck off.

Bebpo · « **Reply #2185 on:** February 07, 2018, 04:48:22 PM »

Why wouldn't they let it be at a tournament? I mean is there something about Evo that doesn't fit Marvel/Disney's image for their franchise? If not, the only other thing I could think of is that they want to bury the game and move attention to their next project but that makes no sense.

nachobro · « **Reply #2186 on:** February 07, 2018, 04:50:59 PM »

Game looks like shit, sold like shit, the promotional tournament they did had shit views and was treated like shit by Capcom. Plus they have Clash of Champions so it's pretty easy for Marvel to wash their hands of the whole thing and move on. An alternative theory is that Capcom was dumb enough to not work out these kind of rights beforehand re: bigger tournaments and the game being on TV.

Also I posted the same thing like an hour ago

thisismyusername · « **Reply #2187 on:** February 07, 2018, 04:59:49 PM »

Yeah, it's Marvel and Capcom washing their hands of the massive bomb. I don't blame Marvel saying "

" to Capcom on tournaments.

nachobro · « **Reply #2188 on:** February 07, 2018, 05:27:51 PM »

All this being said, I'll probably still enter the MVCI side tourney this year.

toku · « **Reply #2189 on:** February 07, 2018, 07:56:12 PM »

https://twitter.com/JukeBoxHaru/status/960588964171169792

Bebpo · « **Reply #2190 on:** February 07, 2018, 09:57:32 PM »

Quote from: toku on February 07, 2018, 07:56:12 PM

https://twitter.com/JukeBoxHaru/status/960588964171169792

Can you explain what they're pointing out about the hitboxes? I don't get some of these posts on DBZF and I'd like to understand more of the technical points people are making.

Himu · « **Reply #2191 on:** February 07, 2018, 10:37:39 PM »

Quote from: toku on February 07, 2018, 07:56:12 PM

https://twitter.com/JukeBoxHaru/status/960588964171169792

How in the fuck? How long is that ginyu punch active?

Quote from: Bebpo on February 07, 2018, 09:57:32 PM

Quote from: toku on February 07, 2018, 07:56:12 PM
https://twitter.com/JukeBoxHaru/status/960588964171169792

Can you explain what they're pointing out about the hitboxes? I don't get some of these posts on DBZF and I'd like to understand more of the technical points people are making.

Red is a hit box. It’s where you cause damage. Green is a hurt box. It means you take damage by getting hit in that area. Gohan’s hit box on that attack covers half of his body. The move has reach and cover, making it a safe move to pull out for a poke. It’s also crouching so it will likely allow him to catch whiffed highs. Meanwhile his hurt box is wayyy beyond his hit box. In order for him to get hit in this attack he must be attacked low (his legs) or attacked high in a jump attack (like a cross up) so you can hit the back of his head. By definition, and I haven’t seen the frame data, Gohan’s move there is the definition of a great fucking move that should be used a lot because it covers large amounts space. I can only imagine the amount of pushback it grants.

Ginyu’s move covers no space and worst of all his hit box is BEHIND his hurt box. So when he uses that he will either trade or raises high possibility of getting hit. The amount of space it takes up is shit and it provides zero cover. Ginyu’s entire body is one giant hurt box here and particularly vulnerable. Unlike Gohan’s he can be attacked low, standing, or jumped on. Since it looks like a crouch jab it might even be the start of Ginyu’s gatling (idk of dbfz has Gatling) which means anknowledgeable player can easily punish it because it has more holes than cheese.Shit move 101 without looking at the frame data. It might be a good move for a trade and that might be enough. I don’t know. On the other hand Ginyu IS huddled up and small in move. That might be a benefit idk.

Basically, the wider and fatter a red box is, the better the move. Anime hit boxes also tend to be crazy.

This is a good fucking move. Look how much space it takes up. Look how far her vulnerable spots are.

Even better are moves with ambiguous hit boxes where the box reaches beyond the actual tip of the move.

Bebpo · « **Reply #2192 on:** February 07, 2018, 11:22:59 PM »

Thanks Cindi. That's helpful.

What's the blue box and how do people get the hitbox information from games?

Himu · « **Reply #2193 on:** February 07, 2018, 11:30:52 PM »

Blue box is hurtbox. Some games it’s green some it’s blue.

You can find move analysis on Dustloop wiki.

http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Dragon_Ball_FighterZ

They’re still working on it because the game is new but it still stands. Don’t have hitbox info from what I can tell. Read the summaries of the moves. For now find fast moves with good space control. Join the Dbfz discord and ask questions there.

Different games have different resources.

toku · « **Reply #2194 on:** February 07, 2018, 11:37:41 PM »

adult gohan is really good in this

loving tien myself, think im sticking with him as my point man.

thisismyusername · « **Reply #2195 on:** February 08, 2018, 12:13:16 AM »

Quote from: Bebpo on February 07, 2018, 11:22:59 PM

What's the blue box and how do people get the hitbox information from games?

Long time ago, they reverse engineered (IIRC) the games to get into a "debug mode" to show them. Some games in practice modes now a days will let you see this information--UMvC3 on the Vita is a prime-example-- (or the frame-advantages), but older titles don't. So the internet provided this information because the games wouldn't.

toku · « **Reply #2196 on:** February 08, 2018, 01:00:57 AM »

I wonder how long this anime fighter reign can go on for...wouldn't mind seeing a new anime styled SF.

2019/2020 lets go full anime lads

thisismyusername · « **Reply #2197 on:** February 08, 2018, 01:02:29 AM »

Quote from: toku on February 08, 2018, 01:00:57 AM

I wonder how long this anime fighter reign can go on for...wouldn't mind seeing a new anime styled SF.

Let SF be SF. Let Tekken be Tekken. Let DOA and VF be DOA and VF.

Animu can be it's own thing.

Himu · « **Reply #2198 on:** February 08, 2018, 01:09:37 AM »

Alpha games are sorta anime in some aspects, though they have no dash. I’d take it over the slow SFV but I doubt capcom’s ability to make a good fg these days.

Bebpo · « **Reply #2199 on:** February 08, 2018, 02:57:24 AM »

Alpha/Zero is definitely anime/cartoon street fighter.
And it was great! Doubt they'll ever go back to that style though.

nachobro · « **Reply #2200 on:** February 08, 2018, 09:41:36 AM »

During the SF4 days they said they wouldn't go back to sprites because they were time consuming to make and they wouldn't be able to have costumes for the characters. Of course now with Arc making 2d looking stuff with 3d models, who knows?

Also I think AE is a pretty good fighter. Not my favorite SF but Capcom can still make good games when they're pushed into it.

bork · « **Reply #2201 on:** February 08, 2018, 09:50:00 AM »

I don't really see Alpha as being any more "anime" in style than the other SF games, really. They made the characters bulkier and this style has carried over into subsequent games. Part of that style also started when they redrew the sprites for Super on the CPS2 and that look pretty much continued for all of their fighting games and beat-em-ups.

Re: MAHVEL. Yeah, sorry...I don't buy it. The game being dropped from Evo and CPT because of Marvel, that is. It just doesn't make any sense. The game was already featured on some "high profile" stream events (like the one with fighting game pros and WWE superstars playing together) at release and it's not like Marvel or Disney had a problem with the previous game being at these events. Just admit that it was a failure already.

nachobro · « **Reply #2202 on:** February 08, 2018, 09:53:52 AM »

Marvel doesn't seem too interested in promoting the game anymore, even with the Black Panther tie in they are doing for every other game they have right now. For example:

So I can totally see Marvel saying no to EVO if they won't even promote the game on their own websites and social media

bork · « **Reply #2203 on:** February 08, 2018, 10:38:37 AM »

Maybe it has to do with it being a crossover game as far as Marvel is concerned with promotion.

Mr Wizard says:

Quote

"We know [MvCI] was on a slippery slope and it had a lot of competition going forward," Mr. Wizard started. "And it just kind of... fizzled.

"It's not to talk smack on Marvel or anything. It's always been a great game for EVO [and] it's had a stoic 15 years at EVO. It was the main game for eight straight years, it was crazy.

"But I don't think people are playing it, and that's the problem. We've always had to support games that people actually play. "

I also don't see how Marvel could stop them from playing a video game at a tournament. Doing some kind of claim shit to stop it from being broadcasted, maybe, much like Nintendo did with Project Melee, but I don't see what kind of legal issue they could cite here and nobody is mentioning this.

The bottom line...Dragon Ball FighterZ >>>>>>>>> Marvel Vs. Capcom Infinite and the better game is being featured. I hope this lights a fire under Capcom's ass...but I doubt it.

nachobro · « **Reply #2204 on:** February 08, 2018, 10:49:56 AM »

Isn't Lego a crossover too?

Wiz has said before that they now make sure to get permission from the all parties before choosing their main games. Probably because they are much more high profile now and also this stuff gets broadcast on TV. So I can see a situation where either Marvel directly says no, Capcom relays that Marvel isn't into it, or Marvel just doesn't respond and then EVO just moves on from there.

I don't think it has much to do with DBZ being better. EVO has run nine games before (in a smaller venue) and I could see them doing it again, so it's not like they have a hard limit of eight. I see no reason not to take what Markman said at face value, especially when Marvel themselves haven't shown a lick of interest in MVCI since it launched (the last post about MVCI on the Marvel games page was from its launch, they didn't even make a post about the DLC

).

Either way, the lesson Capcom should take is not to partner with Disney/Marvel anymore and to make a VS game with just their characters so they can put more time and care into it. They've been burned again by the same shit after not learning their lesson the first time.

bork · « **Reply #2205 on:** February 08, 2018, 11:03:05 AM »

Yeah, but again...this did not happen with the other Marvel Vs. games and we can include the 2017 port of UMvC3 to PS4/Xbone/PC in that list.

Even if Marvel is clearly to blame for some things, the bottom line is that Capcom put out a half-assed product and they aren't trying to salvage it like they did with SFV. I agree that they need to move on and stop making Marvel games after this. I thought Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom was a breath of fresh air after all those other Marvel titles and hope they do more of that kind of crossover or just finally make the Capcom Vs....Capcom game that so many seem to want.

Quote from: nachobro on February 08, 2018, 10:49:56 AM

Isn't Lego a crossover too?

"Lego" is just the visual style of the game, not a crossover with another company's characters, though, right?

nachobro · « **Reply #2206 on:** February 08, 2018, 11:44:13 AM »

I had that game confused with the Lego Skylanders style game that had a bunch of franchises in one and you could mix and match them, oops.

In the end Marvel will end up with a decent sized side tourney. Plus Wiz committed to giving the bigger side games EVO medals so it's a win/win.

But once again it cracks me up how EVO side games became a major issue and needed more recognition once a Capcom game was snubbed as a main stage game. Just like there was a sudden push to make the FGC less toxic and to "stop making fun of games" once Capcom games were the ones being made fun of by everyone.

mormapope · « **Reply #2207 on:** February 08, 2018, 01:25:19 PM »

For some reason, I feel like the trajectory for Marvel is gonna be an Ultimate rerelease of MvC2, with updated graphics that mimic what Arc has been doing. I don't know how Capcom would do this due to licensing, but this would be very Capcom like move.

That Street fighter collection that'll have every SF comes out in May.

bork · « **Reply #2208 on:** February 08, 2018, 02:32:51 PM »

Quote from: mormapope on February 08, 2018, 01:25:19 PM

For some reason, I feel like the trajectory for Marvel is gonna be an Ultimate rerelease of MvC2, with updated graphics that mimic what Arc has been doing. I don't know how Capcom would do this due to licensing, but this would be very Capcom like move.

I don't see that happening at all. I do see this being the end of the Marvel Vs. games...and good. Time to move on. Marvel is too restrictive on shit and Capcom...well, with the shape they're in, just focus on SFV for now, please.

bork · « **Reply #2209 on:** February 08, 2018, 02:41:10 PM »

Going back to Bebpo's posts:

Quote from: Bebpo on February 07, 2018, 04:32:23 PM

Ehhhh, from what I understand Marvel basically dictated the Marvel lineup and Capcom had no say. So it's not just "no x-men/doctor doom", but Capcom didn't have the freedom to pull all kinds of interesting comic book characters like back when they did Shuma-Gorath and what not and the lineup was basically TEAM BORING AVENGERS + some GoTG. Like that stuff works in the films because it's the safe characters, but it just makes a bland roster in MvC. Then you have stuff like that actual interesting additions like Black Panther being locked behind DLC -_-

Nah, Marvel has always been like that with them. There were certain things that didn't happen with MvC3 because Marvel wouldn't let Capcom do things in regards to character design and gameplay. Even shit like alternate color schemes had to be submitted to Marvel for review. This is why Magneto never got an alternate DLC outfit and why we didn't get balance patches.

Quote from: Bebpo on February 07, 2018, 04:36:30 PM

I just want to add though that part of the reason I never picked up MvC:I or was too interesting is that even MvC3 felt like a downgrade to me coming from MvC2's roster. It was still enough that I picked up MvC3 and enjoyed it. But I always felt like one of the key selling points to vs games was having a billion characters ripped from various games. So MvC:I having an even smaller roster than MvC3 was a big turn off personally.

Marvel Vs. Capcom 2 was a mess of a game. It was Capcom MUGEN. They just threw all their sprites into the game (with a couple of new ones- was legit surprised by this at the time since their Marvel games were such asset recycle-fests) on top of 3D backgrounds and shitty music and called it a day. Seeing as how they started over completely with MvC3 years later, I wouldn't have expected anywhere near that size roster. Plus MvC2 is the only one with a roster that large.

Quote

But around 2010s era the FGC took off and "balance" became important :'(

Bruh.

It has always been about having good balance...what are you talking about?

People complaining about broken and unbalanced games has been a staple for almost two decades (if not longer). I was always amazed by how the FGC actually accepted MvC2 since it's such broken garbage. They basically just made their own game out of it in the sense that they ignored like 90% of the roster and stuck with the same few characters to make a game out of.

Quote

I'd rather have 50+ characters with crappy balance, but that's just me

I'd rather have 50+ characters AND good balance. And I don't think that's just me.

nachobro · « **Reply #2210 on:** February 08, 2018, 02:55:23 PM »

Most of the games people consider the best are some of the worst balanced. Soul Calibur 2, MVC2, ST, 3S, XvsSF (ok only I like that one). That's not to say balance sucks or something, that's a silly way to look at it. The issue is more what is the balance from? Is everyone nerfed and kept stale to stay in line? Yeah that sucks. Even though I used SoulCal2 as an example of a poorly balanced game they had the right idea with it. Make everyone awesome and have some ridiculously broken bullshit. Make the characters fun to play and as balanced as you can, that's the right way to make an FG.

Bebpo · « **Reply #2211 on:** February 08, 2018, 03:08:12 PM »

Quote from: nachobro on February 08, 2018, 02:55:23 PM

Most of the games people consider the best are some of the worst balanced. Soul Calibur 2, MVC2, ST, 3S, XvsSF (ok only I like that one). That's not to say balance sucks or something, that's a silly way to look at it. The issue is more what is the balance from? Is everyone nerfed and kept stale to stay in line? Yeah that sucks. Even though I used SoulCal2 as an example of a poorly balanced game they had the right idea with it. Make everyone awesome and have some ridiculously broken bullshit. Make the characters fun to play and as balanced as you can, that's the right way to make an FG.

Yeah, I've got nothing against balance in fighters of course and was being sarcastic. But for me having good balance isn't a big deal since I don't play at that high level. MvC2 might be super broken but it was pretty much the best fighting game ever for the years it was in the arcade and on dreamcast. The arcades at my college were always packed playing it and on dreamcast all my local friends were super into it. It was just a fun game with a huge roster and totally crazy fights. I remember hanging out in the arcades using Cable and doing nothing but beam spam with Dr. Doom rock assists because that was the OP move of the week. Good times.

And yeah SC2 was my favorite SC and 3S is great (Zero/Alpha 3 is probably my favorite SF because again, huge roster. Plus had lots of good SP modes at home). Although SC2 was more just the era it was released when there was a local fighting game scene and having Link in on GC was cool.

nachobro · « **Reply #2212 on:** February 08, 2018, 03:21:29 PM »

I see that like Tasty, so I'll add Melee to that list of poorly balanced classics too

Tasty · « **Reply #2213 on:** February 08, 2018, 03:48:37 PM »

Quote from: nachobro on February 08, 2018, 03:21:29 PM

I see that like Tasty, so I'll add Melee to that list of poorly balanced classics too

Not gonna disagree but it is pretty amazing that a fucking Jigglypuff can win EVO.

In fact about seven chars are completely viable (A through SS), which is about a quarter of the cast.

Himu · « **Reply #2214 on:** February 08, 2018, 03:53:37 PM »

Quote from: nachobro on February 08, 2018, 02:55:23 PM

Most of the games people consider the best are some of the worst balanced. Soul Calibur 2, MVC2, ST, 3S, XvsSF (ok only I like that one). That's not to say balance sucks or something, that's a silly way to look at it. The issue is more what is the balance from? Is everyone nerfed and kept stale to stay in line? Yeah that sucks. Even though I used SoulCal2 as an example of a poorly balanced game they had the right idea with it. Make everyone awesome and have some ridiculously broken bullshit. Make the characters fun to play and as balanced as you can, that's the right way to make an FG.

Don't forget CVS2. TBH, I think USFIV might be Capcom's most balanced fighter?

Himu · « **Reply #2215 on:** February 08, 2018, 03:55:53 PM »

Quote from: Dos Locos Tacos on February 08, 2018, 09:50:00 AM

I don't really see Alpha as being any more "anime" in style than the other SF games, really. They made the characters bulkier and this style has carried over into subsequent games. Part of that style also started when they redrew the sprites for Super on the CPS2 and that look pretty much continued for all of their fighting games and beat-em-ups.

You're right. When I bring up anime in relation to the Alpha's I mostlly mean the speed (they're on Turbo speed by default) and the combo creativity. They're games that allow more freedom and flexibility in the combos, I feel. They lack anime mobility but they still have things like air guard and air techs. They're like a half way step between a stoic fighter (SF, KOF) and full on anime (Vsav, GG).

nachobro · « **Reply #2216 on:** February 08, 2018, 04:25:18 PM »

Quote from: Cindi Mayweather on February 08, 2018, 03:53:37 PM

Don't forget CVS2. TBH, I think USFIV might be Capcom's most balanced fighter?

CVS2

Blanka, Bison, Sagat, Cammy, Sakura, Akuma, Guile and fuck the rest

Bebpo · « **Reply #2217 on:** February 08, 2018, 04:38:22 PM »

Shouldn't SFV be more balanced than USFIV? I mean isn't the entire point of SFV to make an extremely balanced competitive FGC game?

Quote from: Cindi Mayweather on February 08, 2018, 03:55:53 PM

Quote from: Dos Locos Tacos on February 08, 2018, 09:50:00 AM
I don't really see Alpha as being any more "anime" in style than the other SF games, really. They made the characters bulkier and this style has carried over into subsequent games. Part of that style also started when they redrew the sprites for Super on the CPS2 and that look pretty much continued for all of their fighting games and beat-em-ups.

You're right. When I bring up anime in relation to the Alpha's I mostlly mean the speed (they're on Turbo speed by default) and the combo creativity. They're games that allow more freedom and flexibility in the combos, I feel. They lack anime mobility but they still have things like air guard and air techs. They're like a half way step between a stoic fighter (SF, KOF) and full on anime (Vsav, GG).

Plus stuff like V-ism create your own combo was a lot more like a MvC/GG kind of anime combo fighter.

And the colors, the new character designs, the portraits all give a more anime look imo

Anyhow, Alpha was cool.

nachobro · « **Reply #2218 on:** February 08, 2018, 04:39:47 PM »

Alpha 3 was great. Three modes of play per character, great cast, gorgeous game, plus it started you with full meter. Such a solid SF entry

Himu · « **Reply #2219 on:** February 08, 2018, 04:39:51 PM »

I'm really looking forward to A3 on ps4.

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